2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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Suraj
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 May 2020 00:44

chetak wrote:his legacy was salvaged much later because the mafia family ensured that it was purposely sullied and defiled.

he was the butt of jokes because of the lootyens and the congi mafia family controlled liberandus and presstitutes, words that were not even in existence at the time of PVNR.

This is the "it is the black cat's fault" argument. As Deng said, it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, it only matters if it catches mice. We pay the price of the elected leadership's failure to implement policy and keep that policy stability in place.

You're making the mistake of comparing two people with radically different skill sets and judging one of them negatively. One was career New Delhi insider who took the chance he got to implement one thing, and avoid doing anything about another - both very good choices - and then was smart enough to know his own limits.

PVNR is closest to ABV in that regard, though ABV had leadership and base that PVNR lacked. Both had their legacies broken by weak continuity. Neither comes anywhere close to Modi's leadership skillset.

A leader needs to legislate and execute policy (since he heads both legislature and executive), set the groundwork within the political system to continue that policy set, and have the ability to keep the confidence of the populace at election. Long term change comes from leaders with that triple skill set. This is true anywhere - Deng in China, Tage Erlander in Sweden, Konrad Adenauer in Germany, and elsewhere.

It's the same as the example of the good worker who performs within his limitations, and the one who knows how to run the system and gets promoted. They're not comparable entities to begin with. The only Indian national leaders who demonstrated that skillset are JLN and IG, though neither built a base organically.

PVNR is an entirely different kind of PM, whose comparable peers are MMS and ABV, against whom he compares favourably. Arguably as good as ABV and way better than MMS. Perhaps MMS doesn't qualify in this category at all - his only calling card is that he served two full terms, at least on paper. But for that he gets to be compared with Fumble Harmer and IKG.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vishvak » 24 May 2020 00:56

..Yes, PVNR was a patriot, an incorruptible man, a party loyalist and a gandhian..

A party loyalist who got not much respect after death must have done some things right. Those were last days of insurgency for example and in any case it is better to have some guy like him for any amount of time than otherwise. +1 is always better than -1 to say in some way. Anyone doing positive for nation is good enough, simply, because he isn't bad and that is just beginning. IIRC Subramanian Swamy talks highly of his acumen and sharp mind.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 May 2020 02:09

chetak wrote:^^^^^^^

regarding PVNR, I don't agree with what you say

I think that he played his role admirably.


It's pointless and odious to compare Narasimha Rao and Modi. Both are patriots who did (in Modi's case is doing) what they can under their circumstances. Both face(d) a virulent nest of anti-Indian vipers. In Narasimha Rao's time, there was still a place for nationalists in Congress, since there was some semblance of the original patriotic legacy remaining. (as much as they were deeply flawed and corrupt, you could still trust people like Jagjivan Ram, Yeshwanta Rao Chavan, and even Indira Gandhi to fight for India when the chips were down). He dropped out of politics around the time that Antonia was rising in power; and came back after Rajiv's assassination, to barely hang on in the face of the snake's vicious hatred, and still had strong achievements to his credit.

As a brahmin, and also as a naturally introverted and self-effacing man, PVNR had no chance of a popular electoral political base in old AP. He was chosen as a pliable compromise Telangana-based CM by Indira Gandhi after the first Telangana movement in 1967, and remained a family loyalist till the end. Heaven only knows how he balanced that loyalty with his nationalistic core, but he managed somehow; I can't think of any anti-national steps that he took as PM.

His original entry into politics was as a young Telangana intellectual who was active in the Telangana peasant movement in the late 1940s(along with his fellow Telangana intellectuals Dasarathi and C. Narayana Reddi both of whom went into movie industry and academia).

After he became PM following Rajiv's assassination, then AP CM NTR decided that no Telugu PM should bear the humiliation of not being a Lok Sabha member and ordered his TDP party to not field a candidate against him for the Nandyal Lok Sabha seat.

(It is entirely possible, even highly likely that, if he had been allowed to contest for a LS seat in Punjab, the Punjabi people would have extended the same courtesy to MMS. But, by then, I imagine that the experience with PVNR, and later YSR, taught the Antonia creature that, if she wants Indians to be under her thumb, it would be best to separate them from any sense of selfhood, place and belonging. I wonder how MMS's rule would have been, if he had been a Lok Sabha MP from Punjab, instead of a pathetic Rajya Sabha member from Assam.)

Narasimha Rao should also be remembered for getting the Lok Sabha resolution passed that said J&K is all Indian and stated that the only matter for Kashmir talks with Pakistan is the return of POK. To this day, that remains India's official, lawful position, and will remain that way until and unless Parliament passes another resolution that overturns that one.

I remember talking to a Kashmiri Pandit businessman in Hyderabad who became teary-eyed at the mention of Narasimha Rao, who, he said did a great deal behind the scenes for his community.

Strange how time changes perspective. I used to think back then NTR was an orange-robed showman and a bit of a twit, who was full of himself, and now I see him more as a visionary and an honorable man with genuine feeling for his people.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby arshyam » 24 May 2020 08:44

Suresh S wrote:If the only reason for a political party is to survive politically than I have nothing further to say.

Surely you are joking sir. Without power, a political party is nothing, so it's their dharma to not only survive politically, but try to win power so they can wield it. Yes, Modi hasn't wielded it as expected in some areas like bureaucracy and media, but his past record shows that he never did those things. So there are actually no surprises there. But please don't have such utopian thoughts that only end up providing "impossible to scale" type targets to the nationalist ecosystem, against which they end up appearing to fail badly. This is one area we should learn from the leftists - take what you have and make the best of the circumstances. They don't keep cribbing and crying about how incompetent Raul baba is - they defend him as though he were the next best thing after sliced bread. Compared to that, our job is way easier given very real and bold accomplishments of Modi, but we still keep cribbing.

Suresh S wrote:To name a few things. Complete dismemberment of pakistan. Taking our lands from chinkis. Free Tibet. Make mount Kailash as part of India. Remove all constraints for Indian companies to grow exponentially. Take the unpopular steps of reigning in the damn bureaucrats(with exceptions granted) who in general are a road block to progress. let setting up of foreign companies be much more easy. Create a separate ministry for that (of course safe guards must be there). Stop paying lip service to domestic defense manufacture and step motherly Rx. Drip feeding the domestic manufacturers while spending billions on foreign military imports.Throw all traitors in the press , in the film industry and the peaceful community and any community including Hindus in Jail.

stop this Bakwas about sabka sath sabka biswas just like congis, garibi hatao nonsense. India is a Hindu nation and declare it as such. All communities are welcome to stay as long as they understand that and behave accordingly.

Change India,s name to BHARAT. I do not know any India or Hindustan, I only know Bharat and please do not ask me what is in a name.

Please point to where Modi promised any of the above, or BJP's manifesto did. If Modi didn't promise the above, how can you hold him to account on these things? Read what I wrote above to your first point.
Last edited by arshyam on 24 May 2020 12:31, edited 1 time in total.

arshyam
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby arshyam » 24 May 2020 08:47

It's quite interesting how many of us seem to think Modi is super-human and can do anything, and when he doesn't and is not able to, we start the rona-dhona, followed by the typically Hindu self-reproach and introspection. He is human at the end of the day, and there are only so many things he can do, so many battles he can fight. Despite that, he has picked some tough battles and saw them through, many of which were impossible to contemplate even by ahead-of-the-curve BRF, but he did. Why? Because he promised some action in his manifesto. It's as simple as that. If only people read/listen to what he actually says or promises, there will be lesser disappointment all around.

Yes, I too want action on some of the points Suresh-ji mentioned, but I am not going to dump my unspoken expectations on Modi and brand him a failure. On the handling of economy, sure, hold him to account, excoriate him, since he did speak of acche din, and things have not gone as well as they could have. In short, hold him to his word. But anything beyond that is a nice-to-have, that's all.

Edit: Oh, there is no harm conveying the above expectations to Modi or those around him - that's how the game is played. Put pressure on him so that these things are included going forward. But till then, we need to focus on winning one battle after the other, instead of looking at the entire war theatre and declaring failure straightaway. The enemy is vast, and well entrenched. It would take more than a few pitched battles to evict them, but at the same time, we need to build and retain our own holding power, lest we become like Abhimanyu.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby arshyam » 24 May 2020 08:58

nam wrote:"Modi did not shutdown NDTV, so I will vote Rahul gandhi ". Yet people voted Modi twice in to power despite "watching" NDTV for years.

Saar, this one line actually conveys the problem pithily: we on BRF seem to exist on a different plane than most of those who vote - for us, shutting down NDTV is the priority, but not for the (wo)man who votes. They neither watch it, nor do they care what happens to it.

Bottomline: it all boils down to expectations. We probably are not appreciating the expectations of the vast majority of voters, which Modi seems to have fulfilled, hence the return to a greater majority. Suraj-san's earlier posts on this thread are quite instructive in this regard.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ricky_v » 24 May 2020 09:19

I remember talking to a person sometime before 2014 and the statement was that everybody would be happy with a pm who works at even 30% efficiency and no corruption, which sounded odd to me, where we should expect upwards of 100% from such an authority always, such was the low bar with which mms left office, does not mean we would go on a rampage like good 'ol rageboys if our demands are not met.
The very basic thing for the incumbent was and still is to get a competent team and that was something expected but perhaps it was our fault to expect so much seeing as it was never mentioned in the manifesto :) . I think every person sympathisizes with modiji's connundrum, he is trying to improve a country that has vast parts with 50's infrastructure, doing things that should have been done in the preceeding decades but such are the cards that he has been dealt with and he is making the best of it, problem is his team is not good at envisioning, planning, marketing or delivering and he has to take the blame for that which is not entirely unjustified.
In other thread there was talk about generational sacrifice, well i think every generation from independence (discounting the preceeding generations only for data point) has sacrificed in 1 way or the other in outright hunger or stagnated growth and unemployment for incremental gains, probably we will hear of developing country india even in the 2040's at this pace, but with greater public prosperity and industrial base.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 24 May 2020 12:02

arshyam wrote:Bottomline: it all boils down to expectations. We probably are not appreciating the expectations of the vast majority of voters, which Modi seems to have fulfilled, hence the return to a greater majority. Suraj-san's earlier posts on this thread are quite instructive in this regard.

+ 1001. As I mentioned in my earlier post, most of the people in BRF I feel are from that part of Indian society who are very high on the Maslow's Pyramid. Yes, all of us may have some group of informers but may be they too are not really that poor in the society. For us banning NDTV and getting media houses in line may be the #1 priority, perhaps because we overly rely on them. But there could be 100s of others who don't even watch that channel and have bigger day to day problems to worry about.

One thing I noticed was during COVID-19 lock down and the problem it caused to the poorer migrant labourers. Many of the folks in my friends circle was giving sermons on government in efficiency and in true blue Marie Antoinette style expressed their grave concerns. Their opinions were firmly based on the media stories on the same issue. But they never knew that these folks had a very bad living standard even before COVID-19. And the media did not want to highlight it then because many of these people worked for real estate barons who also took out one page and two page advertisement in their news papers every week end. And to be frank; if the governments of the state from where these folks came from even give them some very basic comforts they may vote for the political party which helped them. Yogi's actions etc needs to be understood from this angle as well.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 24 May 2020 12:22

Suresh S wrote:To name a few things. Complete dismemberment of pakistan. Taking our lands from chinkis. Free Tibet. Make mount Kailash as part of India.


I suggest you take a deep breath sir, and see what Pakistan and China's combined military capability is. The US would struggle to do this without going nuclear on day 1, and then taking hits in turn. If this was your expectation from Modi, I have no words left.

Remove all constraints for Indian companies to grow exponentially. Take the unpopular steps of reigning in the damn bureaucrats(with exceptions granted) who in general are a road block to progress. let setting up of foreign companies be much more easy. Create a separate ministry for that (of course safe guards must be there). Stop paying lip service to domestic defense manufacture and step motherly Rx. Drip feeding the domestic manufacturers while spending billions on foreign military imports.Throw all traitors in the press , in the film industry and the peaceful community and any community including Hindus in Jail.


Yes, many more steps in the above areas could have been taken. This is where sadly Modi led GOI has been a damp squib in NDA 1. BJP got scared of the suit boot ki sarkar jibe and went overboard on garibi hatao as a reelection plank. In the meanwhile, many important issues were left to wither on the vine. Less said on the craven manner in which they allowed anti-India propaganda to thrive, the better.

stop this Bakwas about sabka sath sabka biswas just like congis, garibi hatao nonsense. India is a Hindu nation and declare it as such. All communities are welcome to stay as long as they understand that and behave accordingly.


Last is not possible as many Hindus, and most minorities including a huge chunk of people serving in GOI are not comfortable with it.

Change India,s name to BHARAT. I do not know any India or Hindustan, I only know Bharat and please do not ask me what is in a name.


Not a real change or useful at all, TBH.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Zynda » 24 May 2020 13:00

To me this Covid situation has highlighted the amount of rural to urban migration that has happened in India. Even though you read about it periodically, never realised the scale of it until started seeing images of sea of people waiting to head out of major metros to their respective villages/towns.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby V_Raman » 24 May 2020 13:40

You should see Chennai during pongal. It is literally 50% empty! So the scale of migration is known.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby nam » 24 May 2020 14:59

Zynda wrote:To me this Covid situation has highlighted the amount of rural to urban migration that has happened in India. Even though you read about it periodically, never realised the scale of it until started seeing images of sea of people waiting to head out of major metros to their respective villages/towns.


It happens every year. Specially in construction. As soon as the monsoon season arrives in June, most of the construction stops. Laborers would then obviously move out of cities, when there is no work.

This is the basic fact people miss. The lock down happened in April and got extended to May. Why would migrants stay in city even if it opens, when they know there will be no construction from May end onwards?

This is the reason they were trying to move out. Who would walk 1000+ KM, if they are dying of hunger?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 24 May 2020 20:51

Guys, this is about Chincoms, but I am putting it here due to the politics of it.

To get a measure of the extent some would go to, to defame ModiJi, look beyond none other than ex army col Ajai Shukla (not posting his rants). He is hell bent on claiming that Chinese have crossed into India territory, have detailed our soldiers etc etc, and ModiJi's response is weak. He has some US chutiya called Chrstopher Clary join in on the propaganda. And of course twitter lines are full of BIF having a field day. Mind you the same Ajai Shukla calls for p!ss talks with TSP and accuses Indian govt of 'jingoism' when it does anything aggressive against TSP. But here, based on his unverified claims, he is accusing ModiJi of being weak.

Now Indian army has strongly refuted claims by the usual cabal of Modi haters. But I shudder to think as to how India can actually fight and take on Chinese and TSP with so many f!king traitors within. From Minhaz Merchant's twitter line

https://twitter.com/MinhazMerchant/stat ... 2372896768

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby suryag » 24 May 2020 21:01

If the situation is dire, why not impose import/export ban on Chinese goods, it will straighten them up right away. It is also advantageous for us as most of the elements we export are raw materials and we import finished products.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby kit » 24 May 2020 21:05

suryag wrote:If the situation is dire, why not impose import/export ban on Chinese goods, it will straighten them up right away. It is also advantageous for us as most of the elements we export are raw materials and we import finished products.



It has to be done, if India is interested in booting its economy from down up, stopping chinese imports will create demand within the country, and along with easy access to funds/loans small and middle scale industries can come up..a policy change needs to come up right away , and this will not need any money from the government , only easy facilitation and support

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KJo » 25 May 2020 00:10

I think banning it abruptly will cause a lot of problems. This has to be done gradually so that the Indian economy can adjust.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby suryag » 25 May 2020 00:43

Sir atleast make two or three examples ban oppo, oneplus and other nonsense cellphones, no one's going to die

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Nihat » 25 May 2020 00:46

We can't place an ad hoc and blanket ban on Chinese imports of exports as it'll cause an economic shock that we can do without right now.

What we are attempting to do, at least on theory is the right way to go. Make things easier for our sme and keep increasing the cost of doing business with China incrementally. If we remain steadfast on our policy, we should accomplish what we are aiming for

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 01:17

Chinese cell phones and devices are very easy to ban given the laws and regulations that they could be violating. They come preloaded with software and hardware that call home. They are probably also violating many laws when advertising and selling. However, Taiwanese and Koreans need to be ready to compete at that price point and capture the market.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 01:47

It's worth having follow on article on how, who, why he received parole.

May be Indian police should start behaving like US police. How does he walk away free after firing?

https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/delhi-polie-nabs-notorious-criminal-mohammed-israel-absconding-10-months/
Notorious criminal Mohammad Israel (49) s/o Sahabuddin r/o Village Samana, Distt. Ghaziabad, UP arrested by special cell ten months after he jumped parole. He had taken the alias of Ajay Bidhuri to dodge the police.

The notorious criminal had been evading the police for 10 months after he had escaped parole. Israel had been a member of a biker gang and was planning for an armed robbery in the Delhi-NCR region, amidst the Coronavirus lockdown.

Even though he was asked to surrender, the criminal fired at the cops. Sensing the gravity of the situation, Sub-Inspector Pawan fired a shot in the air. Eventually, Mohammed Israel was overpowered and hi pistol was seized. The cops also recovered 3 live rounds of ammunition from him.




Assuming that this was not assisted suicide, if you're going to commit one then why not take few bad ones with you?


https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/political-storm-brews-over-the-suicide-of-rajasthan-cop-alleging-pressure-colleagues-blame-athlete-turned-congress-mla-krishna-poonia/
Vishnoi left a suicide note, where he said that he was under tremendous pressure which he could not handle. Now politics have heated on the issue, as it is alleged that a Congress leader is responsible for the pressure that the police officer was facing.

It has been alleged that the SHO was under pressure from Congress MLA Krishna Poonia, which led to his suicide.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 02:10

With MH, one has to wonder if it's really robbery gone bad.

Two Sadhus have been brutally killed in Nanded in Maharashtra
https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/maharas ... d-robbery/

According to the reports, the bodies of the Sadhus were found in their ashram in Maharashtra’s Nanded late on Saturday night. The deceased sadhus have been identified as Balbrahmachari Shivacharya Maharaj guru, and Bhagwan Shinde, a disciple of Sadhu Shivacharya Maharaj.

Reportedly, the seer was a well-known mahant of the district and had involved in the development work of the area for a long time.


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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby kit » 25 May 2020 02:45

KJo wrote:I think banning it abruptly will cause a lot of problems. This has to be done gradually so that the Indian economy can adjust.



The chinese cell phones can be banned using national security considerations along with chinese 5G providers Huawei and ZTE., i think that would be a good start

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby fanne » 25 May 2020 04:16

KJo wrote:I think banning it abruptly will cause a lot of problems. This has to be done gradually so that the Indian economy can adjust.


Aapki hamesha phati huyee kyon rahti hai?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Pratyush » 25 May 2020 06:24

KJo wrote:I think banning it abruptly will cause a lot of problems. This has to be done gradually so that the Indian economy can adjust.


If there is domestic demand about a certain item and its import is banned. Domestic production capacity can be built up quickly to meet it. So I say ban all China made items, and let the chips fall where they may. Or better yet, impose a 50000% ( not a mistake) import duties on the items.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 25 May 2020 09:12

I see a lot of people advising on banning Chinese stuff pronto. My samples are based on electronic items, and to give devil its due Chinese are able to make stuff at nearly half the price which Indian manufactures (if any) would charge for the same. Again, I use the world "if any" because for many products which I buy I don't even see an Indian manufacturer. I am talking about basic electronics stuff like two way radios and some parts of the same.

And there could be many other small time players who would at present be using Chinese equipment because it is easily available and cheaper. If a carpet ban is what people want, GoI also has the responsibilities to ensure that there are adequate production sources identified and made operational. Banning Chinese stuff citing patriotism and then asking people to now fend for themselves is not going to give any credits for GoI.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby csaurabh » 25 May 2020 09:45

Agreed. a lot of BRFites seem to be unaware ( or even downright delusional ) about the scale and quality of Chinese manufactures relative to Indian ones ( where there are even any at all ). If we wish to really reduce Chinese imports we need to step up our game big time which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 10:21

Yes without other players on board about getting even with Chinese, this banning part is nonsense except somethings here and there. There's no Indian manufacturing really hardware wise or even software wise for someone else's hardware. The price point is set by Chinese. It's all about others to deliver at that point or lower. Last time I checked, India can't even deploy a bullet train if it was for free to the level of land acquisitions. Lot of the technology would not even be in India if not for rising of China.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 25 May 2020 10:52

So if India has no economic leverage over China, then how does India respond to China's dadagiri at the LAC? Military option?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby abhik » 25 May 2020 12:45

We definitely do have economic leverage over China, people just need to stop with defeatist attitude/ over-smart banyiagiri. They have been pushing us around for some time with no push back from our side. Just start by banning participation of any Chinese firms in 5G, then put together a plan to remove all Chinese gear from India's telecom infrastructure (ideally within 5 years if not less).

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby kvraghav » 25 May 2020 12:52

This talk about scale and quality of chinese goods just shows our dependency on them. When PPE was banned, we went from zero to millions of unit. Crisis will trigger innovation and we will get over it. If we do not have a way out and keep bankrolling chinese while they support LET and other terrorists organisation, i would actually suggest let us surrender as a whole and be part of china. At least that way, we will stop the army guys from getting killed in J&K.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 18:25

I suggest studying of the case where Apple wanted to move away from Qualcomm and enlisted Intel to get 4G chipsets made. It didn't work out that well. In addition, there is going to maze of patent nightmares to walk through. And, I'm assuming that there's unlimited money supply, ideal workforce, no labor issues, no espionage, no jihadi activities, no I'll do anything to look modi bad, no clones of Uddhav/Mamta etc.

There's lot to gain by starting to work 4G/5G chain as there's lot of eventual help towards military. But gov't needs to be able to buy initial runs and eat cost. GoI can't get Indian weapons products going if Arjun were to be kept in mind. Commercial infrastructure may need cheap Chinese equipment but that doesn't have to be everywhere. Listening and spying equipment can be based off of the initial Indian low rate production. Proprietary variants of 4G/5G for gov't use can utilize infrastructure. There are lot of non commercial uses to seed the industry to be able to think about outright bans down the road. This also requires assumption that no Chinese friendly Indian govt would come in power. One has to be able to produce at a low rate of everything but doesn't have to lead the market in production of polluting items.

Due to the Wuhan virus, there's a chance if GoI gets cooperation from other govts in world to get even with Chinese. India can clean its own house of naxals, jaichands, jihadis etc. and it would cause Chinese lot of pain. But will countries like US agree to dismantle its EJ network so India can get useful areas back?

GoI can start by figuring out how to reel in wasteful culture seeping in that's relying more and more on cheap Chinese garbage. Disposable culture has gone out of hand in India. So far no Indian rules and regulations to standardize many things to reduce pollution. Atrocious battery based trinklets come to my mind. For near future, there's no substitute for cheap Chinese phones unless other countries like Korea, Taiwan pitch in. I'm assuming that in retaliation Chinese won't sell Indians OEM platforms for Indian company to make Chinese replacements.

There are many projects that India can start. Like, prevention of India's data going to China. Figure out rules and regulations where a Chinese cell phone sell gets limited to one time profit by not making any Chinese software/app profitable.

There are lots and lots of other areas like biotechnology, agriculture, green energy, alternatives to technology that uses rare earth metals cornered by Chinese, nutrition, medicine, all sorts of software genres etc.

When one looks at things like yoga, ayurveda, Neem, suvin cotton, one wonders how everyone else figures out how to make big profit from various indic items before Indians do. May be this needs to be solved first.

Personally I would be happy just to see all Indian festival items be from India in near future. Why do Indian handicrafts and religious items come from China? If GoI can't figure out how to get that done within India, then rest is pipedream.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby yensoy » 25 May 2020 18:28

abhik wrote:We definitely do have economic leverage over China, people just need to stop with defeatist attitude/ over-smart banyiagiri. They have been pushing us around for some time with no push back from our side. Just start by banning participation of any Chinese firms in 5G, then put together a plan to remove all Chinese gear from India's telecom infrastructure (ideally within 5 years if not less).


This is not economic leverage. We need them to absolute vacate these areas (5G and telco infrastructure). Economic leverage is there only when we tell them they can stay if they cooperate with us on something else. An example of economic leverage is their continued access to the rest of the white goods consumer market.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 19:53

One thing I learned from my commercial stints in cellular industry is that there are always losers in every commercial set up. These losers don't mind honing their skills for free or at no profit to be able to go at the same opportunity next go around. Indian companies can work with these companies to acquire know how. One thing I had noticed that these US companies didn't see India as a preference to do this due to import export pains of both US and India. So the way I see it, before any thoughts of bans there is lot of other work to get done. India to clean its corruption in customs and working diplomatic channels to make it easier for foreign companies. Especially US to give same environment as China. No one in commercial industry in US thought twice about shipping anything to China but felt or remembered pain when it came to India. And that needs to be fixed.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 25 May 2020 21:14

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 56096?s=19

TWITTER
@drapr007

Pending construction works hv started at few places along the LAC. Pending bridge construction on Galwan River will start soon. Brahmastra Corps & others will take care in case of any obstruction

Trust on Indian Army

This is not 1962's Nehru's India.This is 2020's Modi's India.
_________________
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 75655?s=19

TWITTER
@drapr007

Almost 2 brigades of each army are standing in front of each other in pre war like situations. Tension is on peak along the LAC in Leh-Ladakh & Aksai Chin. Mark my words, 2020 will be the sunrise year for India and sunset year for Ch¡n@.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vishvak » 25 May 2020 21:23

..In addition, there is going to maze of patent nightmares to walk through. And, I'm assuming that there's unlimited money supply, ideal workforce, no labor issues, no ..

If Americans are at pains to do that how and who is going to do that. And then there is why and other questions to twiddle thumbs. Guess those who can or could do that will join the lucrative buy Chinese as well rather than face brunt of can't do and won't/never do until Chinese come calling at the border and thereby surrender to Americans' alphabet soup treaties.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 21:55

People are doing their part with #UninstallTikTok

It would be nice if GoI also pitched in. Also same for Indian companies and groups started investigations and issued reports round the clock about various Chinese products.


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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KJo » 25 May 2020 21:58

fanne wrote:
KJo wrote:I think banning it abruptly will cause a lot of problems. This has to be done gradually so that the Indian economy can adjust.


Aapki hamesha phati huyee kyon rahti hai?


It's a good thing that Modi/Shah don't listen to posters like you and rush into something without thinking it through completely.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 25 May 2020 22:19

It's a pipe dream when people say let's ban Chinese products and India will start producing next day. People seem to forget the 30% of population and broken Indian systems. Let's see if India even maintains the 50% of PPE capacity created.

I continue to reference opindia but it's worth noting that their advertising is getting out of control. There's a fine line when it comes to that and I think that they have crossed it by a mile. And, it's coming from someone who holds 10 swarajya lifetime subscriptions.

Mob lynching and murder of vegetable vendor: Assam police arrest accused Faizul Ali and Yusuf, 3 more absconding
https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/assam-v ... nding/amp/


Complaint filed against street vendors, shops in Bengaluru for putting up saffron flags

Speaking to OpIndia, the inspector said that a petition was filed by the advocate, which was later turned into a complaint. He added that they are now carrying an enquiry over the complaint filed by the lawyer and also have sought clarifications from BBMP.
https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/complai ... ron-flags/
According to the reports, a lawyer named Maitreyi Krishnan has registered a complaint on May 18 against a Facebook post by ‘Uttara Kannada Mandi’ and claimed that the Facebook had allegedly put out photos of people putting up saffron flags. The complaint has named one individual ML Shivakumar as the person behind it and accused him of spreading communal discord.




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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Rishi_Tri » 26 May 2020 00:07

Good to see people proposing Ban on Chinese imports. We import $75 BN worth of goods from China and export $15 BN. That shall be $60 BN slap.

As to those who say - where are the substitutes? Did you even buy any Chinese product before 2010 or so? Did you even know any Chinese brand before 2010 or so? Everything used to be made in India or assembled in India with Korean or Japanese components.

Philips / Keltron / Beltron / Uptron / National Panasonic / BPL for consumer electronics.
Maharaja / Sumeet / Bajaj / IFB / BPL for household goods.
Nokia / Microsoft / Micromax etc for mobile phones.
LG / Samsung / HTC for assembled in India phones with some manufacturing done in India.
HCL / Wipro for desi computers, laptops.

I can go on and on.

Its only in last ten years that India has become a white label nation. And its only 10 years, not like US where manufacturing has been in decline for almost 40 years.

So chin up guys, India is not as big a Mangu as you think. The skills are there. The tools are there. It needs push from GOI. Just shut the imports.

I have been calling for ban on Chinese products for years. Now I say, GOI should take over all Chinese Investments in Indian firms or India as reparation for China Virus. We are at economic war with China and we should do what is necessary.

In Judo its not the heftiest who wins but who uses the weight of the opponent to defeat the opponent.

Lets make this Economic Judo and crush the Chinese.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 May 2020 00:43

TWITTER
@OpIndia_com
‘U will keep cleaning toilets’: Shokat Ali and Rashid use derogatory, casteist slurs against Dalit BJP leader Hari Manjhi
https://t.co/a6FVayZrXL
https://twitter.com/OpIndia_com/status/ ... 36993?s=19


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