2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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Kati
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Kati » 01 Mar 2020 02:00

Primus wrote:Guys, I just got this from our local Ekal Chapter. They have launched a support site for the victims of the recent riots in Delhi. As per our group it is a kosher site and the proceeds will be distributed by Dharmics to the needy Dharmics.

Please do contribute, I have already done so.

Here it is


Thanks to all Indic supporters....
The goal of raising Rs. 50 lakh with a target time frame of 15 days has been achieved in one and half days.
Now the goal has been set at Rs. 72 lakh.
Please urge all your near and dear ones to chip in, even as low as Rs. 100 can show our support for the cause.
Again, kudos to all.

UlanBatori
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Mar 2020 02:07

DarkaButt or lookalike screaming that "slogans were raised in broad daylight' at "busiest train station" yelling
Shoot the traitors!

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby SBajwa » 01 Mar 2020 02:10

Kati wrote:
Primus wrote:Guys, I just got this from our local Ekal Chapter. They have launched a support site for the victims of the recent riots in Delhi. As per our group it is a kosher site and the proceeds will be distributed by Dharmics to the needy Dharmics.

Please do contribute, I have already done so.

Here it is


Thanks to all Indic supporters....
The goal of raising Rs. 50 lakh with a target time frame of 15 days has been achieved in one and half days.
Now the goal has been set at Rs. 72 lakh.
Please urge all your near and dear ones to chip in, even as low as Rs. 100 can show our support for the cause.
Again, kudos to all.


Please ask them to accept paypal. Which will be much easier for people to pay than credit card.

thanks
Sandeep

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 01 Mar 2020 10:04

savagery and brutality are meant to terrorize and sadly it seems to be true.

so many preparations were made for the riots and that too, weeks in advance and no one noticed, not the neighbors, the police, the informers or even the intelligence services.

Riot gear — petrol bombs, weapons, stones, sticks & acid found in the building where aam aadmi party leader tahir hussain lived.

what did the powers that be expect during trump's visit, that the jehadis would come out on the streets with flower malas to garland POTUS.




twitter

Looks like Hindus now have an international monopoly on feeling intimidated by Muslims. Even in India, where Hindus have a brute majority of 80%, there are many who talk about Hindus being in danger. This beats logic, but then irrationality is the core of Hindu nationalism.
Last edited by chetak on 01 Mar 2020 10:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 01 Mar 2020 10:16

Gurus, help me with more insight. I just saw a debate with Rahul Shiv Shankar on TimesNow. It was about how BIF are obsessed with protecting jihadi killer of Hindus, Tahir Hussein even as police have booked cases against 100s of others. And this obsession to protect Tahir and whitewash his crimes is because they (BIF) want to perpetuate the narrative that this was a Hinduthva inspired 'pogrom against Muslims. By doing so, they can achieve 2 things:

1. Muslims are are innocent 'victims' who are p!sffuly and 'joyfully' and 'patriotically' opposing anti-Muslim legislation CAA and NRC and NPR (never mind that details of the latter 2 have yet to be even tabled).

2. And by reduction, they further claim: It was state sponsored pogrom from highest levels: aka link ModiJi with the so called 'pogrom'.

When I read the twitter lines of the usual suspects: Burka Bibi, Jihadens Rana Ayyub, Saba Naqvi etc, who are obsessed with highlighting only the Muslim victims, the above theory is eminently plausible.

Any thoughts here?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 10:24

At the end of the day, talk is cheap.. India's global reputation has been cast as a nation of intolerant oppressors by the venomous Indian leftists w/ Hindu sounding names via global media.

Its one thing to do what Israel does and invite anti-Islamism, but its another to dole out thousands of crores to Islamists, provide them preferential treatment and still invite global wrath for perceived Islamophobia by fabricating news reports.

Essentially whether we like it or not, leftists are attempting to launch an internal civil war. By articles portraying fake, fabricated news - they plan to turn the attention of global islamic terrorist organizations towards India and Hindus.

Govt has the option to ignore them or start holding them accountable for their actions...

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 01 Mar 2020 11:15

Omkar, remember what is at work here is the colonial script dutifully followed by BIF: India == TSP, Hindus == Muslims. So under this colonial policy prescription if Hindus are cast as the victim visa vi internal Islamic terror and separatism, or India is the victim visa vi TSP terror, then that script is not adhered to. Because of the India's size and Hindu majority, its always Hindus who have to bend over backwards to please Muslims, or India that has prostrate and make p!ss with TSP. Sad part of both India's Muslim elite and TSP know this game-plan and execute with perfection, while Hindus, well being Hindus are busy fitting among themselves.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 01 Mar 2020 11:49

Aviral Sharma @sharmaAvl · 18h

Each time he was stabbed, they poured acid over the wound it left.

After piercing his eardrums, they poured acid inside it.

After gouging his eyes out, they poured acid on the hollow spot.

No I'm not talking about Capt Sourabh Kalia. This happened with Ankit Sharma in India.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 11:50

Kapil Mishra interview:

https://www.facebook.com/NaMoMediaTv/vi ... 117331222/

Fearless and extremely very well spoken ! Looks like a natural leader..

"The real issue is not CAA.. Its the hatred and intolerance of Modi's victory, article 370, Ram Mandir judgements."

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 11:59

chetak wrote:
Aviral Sharma @sharmaAvl · 18h

Each time he was stabbed, they poured acid over the wound it left.

After piercing his eardrums, they poured acid inside it.

After gouging his eyes out, they poured acid on the hollow spot.

No I'm not talking about Capt Sourabh Kalia. This happened with Ankit Sharma in India.



Sad.. it takes a lot of strength not to let such atrocities distract senior leadership from the key goals of driving out Illegal Muslim squatters via NRC and continue to ensure India is a good FDI destination.

Of course, its another story if the Govt doesn't learn from such atrocities and doesn't protect the foot soldiers - throws folks like Kapil Mishra under the bus.. there are tens of thousands of "oppressed minorities" eagerly waiting to torture him far worse than above.

Apparently Kapil & his family are getting death threats from not just India but across the world, thanks to the famous, secular news reporters who are splashing his personal details prominently and the now well established narrative that he championed the riots/pogrom of Muslims.. mean while Tahir hussein who likely supervised the above torture routine has escaped Scott free.

Events like these have a demoralizing effect on a community's psyche..
Last edited by OmkarC on 01 Mar 2020 12:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 01 Mar 2020 12:06

^^^ Reading that gory decapitation of Ankit Sharma, I feel there is a clear TSP footprint.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mahadevbhu » 01 Mar 2020 12:13

Frankly, I think the PM should have done more than just send Ajit Doval to the affected areas. He should have responded to the incessant protests at Shaheen Bagh, and he should have responded to the riots. The PM and Amit Shah both have behaved in a very insulated manner - made heavy decisions and then when people are out on the streets against those decisions - they decided to not assuage them too much. Perhaps they wanted to polarise people for the Delhi elections - but that did not work out too well.

Now, then - they need to modify certain things about how they are working.

1. They need stronger tier 2 leaders in the states. The BJP system that brought Modi up, needs to be perpetuated and tier 2 leaders need to be strengthened - the face of Modi will not win state elections - Indian junta is far too smart for that.
2. They need to be more accessible and approachable and human - Rahul Bajaj was right when he said that this govt. does not seem like it can countenance criticism.
3. They need to assuage the effects of CAA and not pour acid into the wounds with NRC - the women of Shaheen Bagh are rightly worried.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby arshyam » 01 Mar 2020 12:30

mahadevbhu wrote:the women of Shaheen Bagh are rightly worried.

Eh, about what?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 12:30

mahadevbhu wrote:Frankly, I think the PM should have done more than just send Ajit Doval to the affected areas. He should have responded to the incessant protests at Shaheen Bagh, and he should have responded to the riots. The PM and Amit Shah both have behaved in a very insulated manner - made heavy decisions and then when people are out on the streets against those decisions - they decided to not assuage them too much. Perhaps they wanted to polarise people for the Delhi elections - but that did not work out too well.

Now, then - they need to modify certain things about how they are working.

1. They need stronger tier 2 leaders in the states. The BJP system that brought Modi up, needs to be perpetuated and tier 2 leaders need to be strengthened - the face of Modi will not win state elections - Indian junta is far too smart for that.
2. They need to be more accessible and approachable and human - Rahul Bajaj was right when he said that this govt. does not seem like it can countenance criticism.
3. They need to assuage the effects of CAA and not pour acid into the wounds with NRC - the women of Shaheen Bagh are rightly worried.



The fact that these grisly crimes happened was due to the confidence boost their criminal elements received due to BJP's massive defeat in Delhi post-Shaheenbagh occupation. Pampering those who undertake such protests is not the right way to go. This sends out a wrong message that peacefuls can always hold the country to ransom on any issue they want to and have no need to be accountable. If NRC is now abandoned or sidetracked, it will be impossible to implement UCC or any other policy decisions in future as the peacefuls have now understood that the govt is weak enough to succumb to threats of violence & barbarism.

I think the biggest flaw of BJP leadership is that they underestimated the intent of the peaceful community.. the Shaheen Bagh women & kids were Trojan horses.. while they were squatting and ensuring all attention was diverted to them, their men were preparing for war - collecting acid, making petrol bombs, catapults, identifying targets, readying their troops for action once Mr. Trump & global cameras zoom in on Delhi .. this was a low-grade Pakistani-sponsored surgical strike, which they executed very well.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby prasan » 01 Mar 2020 12:38

https://youtu.be/6ObXymX-CN8
Women speak against riots and islamic mentality


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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 12:40

Is this a local operation or result of Paki perfidy is a question I'm eager to know..

Will Modi take Delhi 2020 on par with 26/11 and deliver on the threat of dismembering Pakistan if their hand is ascertained ?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mahadevbhu » 01 Mar 2020 12:45

OmkarC wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:Frankly, I think the PM should have done more than just send Ajit Doval to the affected areas. He should have responded to the incessant protests at Shaheen Bagh, and he should have responded to the riots. The PM and Amit Shah both have behaved in a very insulated manner - made heavy decisions and then when people are out on the streets against those decisions - they decided to not assuage them too much. Perhaps they wanted to polarise people for the Delhi elections - but that did not work out too well.

Now, then - they need to modify certain things about how they are working.

1. They need stronger tier 2 leaders in the states. The BJP system that brought Modi up, needs to be perpetuated and tier 2 leaders need to be strengthened - the face of Modi will not win state elections - Indian junta is far too smart for that.
2. They need to be more accessible and approachable and human - Rahul Bajaj was right when he said that this govt. does not seem like it can countenance criticism.
3. They need to assuage the effects of CAA and not pour acid into the wounds with NRC - the women of Shaheen Bagh are rightly worried.



The fact that these grisly crimes happened was due to the confidence boost their criminal elements received due to BJP's massive defeat in Delhi post-Shaheenbagh occupation. Pampering those who undertake such protests is not the right way to go. This sends out a wrong message that peacefuls can always hold the country to ransom on any issue they want to and have no need to be accountable. If NRC is now abandoned or sidetracked, it will be impossible to implement UCC or any other policy decisions in future as the peacefuls have now understood that the govt is weak enough to succumb to threats of violence & barbarism.

I think the biggest flaw of BJP leadership is that they underestimated the intent of the peaceful community.. the Shaheen Bagh women & kids were Trojan horses.. while they were squatting and ensuring all attention was diverted to them, their men were preparing for war - collecting acid, making petrol bombs, catapults, identifying targets, readying their troops for action once Mr. Trump & global cameras zoom in on Delhi .. this was a low-grade Pakistani-sponsored surgical strike, which they executed very well.


You need to address your own citizens more rather than not wait for feedback or worse, take feedback from your own echo chambers of social media.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 01 Mar 2020 12:55

mahadevbhu wrote:You need to address your own citizens more rather than not wait for feedback or worse, take feedback from your own echo chambers of social media.


You didn't answer the question above. What are women of shaheen bagh worried about? And what is this crap about 'addressing your own citizens'? ModiJi has not done that?

With due respect, you are the kind of 'useful idiots' that TSP and BIF rely upon. You may be well meaning at heart, but lose the plot when you fail to see the larger game-plan in action. This was a massive conspiracy, most likely, plotted by TSP in collusion with BIF and executed by local Muslims, and here you are self flagellating. What more evidence does TSP need to feel how well their plot succeeded?
Last edited by CRamS on 01 Mar 2020 12:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 12:56

mahadevbhu wrote:
OmkarC wrote:

The fact that these grisly crimes happened was due to the confidence boost their criminal elements received due to BJP's massive defeat in Delhi post-Shaheenbagh occupation. Pampering those who undertake such protests is not the right way to go. This sends out a wrong message that peacefuls can always hold the country to ransom on any issue they want to and have no need to be accountable. If NRC is now abandoned or sidetracked, it will be impossible to implement UCC or any other policy decisions in future as the peacefuls have now understood that the govt is weak enough to succumb to threats of violence & barbarism.

I think the biggest flaw of BJP leadership is that they underestimated the intent of the peaceful community.. the Shaheen Bagh women & kids were Trojan horses.. while they were squatting and ensuring all attention was diverted to them, their men were preparing for war - collecting acid, making petrol bombs, catapults, identifying targets, readying their troops for action once Mr. Trump & global cameras zoom in on Delhi .. this was a low-grade Pakistani-sponsored surgical strike, which they executed very well.


You need to address your own citizens more rather than not wait for feedback or worse, take feedback from your own echo chambers of social media.



I don't know their modus operandi on who's feedback they take and whom they trust.. but I hope they have the sense to ignore feedback if it does not serve either national or civilizational interests.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mahadevbhu » 01 Mar 2020 13:02

CRamS wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:You need to address your own citizens more rather than not wait for feedback or worse, take feedback from your own echo chambers of social media.


You didn't answer the question above. What are women of shaheen bagh worried about? And what is this crap about 'addressing your own citizens'? ModiJi has not done that?

With due respect, you are the kind of 'useful idiots' that TSP and BIF rely upon. You may be well meaning at heart, but lose the plot when you fail to see the larger game-plan in action. This was a massive conspiracy, most likely, plotted by TSP in collusion with BIF and executed by local Muslims, and here you are self flagellating. What more evidence does TSP need to feel how well their plot succeeded?


You sound very certain in ascribing names to me. Does having a different viewpoint cause thus much calumny?

Keeping things in order in one's own country is the job of the GoI. They need to be on top of things, and do all it takes to maintain law and order. Article 370 has gone in Kashmir and how many people are dead due to it? GoI took care.

Delhi, parts of, have ENORMOUS damage. GoI is responsible for being thick headed.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 01 Mar 2020 13:11

twitter


Another body recovered from the drain close to Tahir Hussain's house yesterday. 4 bodies have now been recovered (incl. Ankit Sharma). Police speculate that there could be more.


Image

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 01 Mar 2020 13:12

vijayk wrote:
pankajs wrote:The Delhi Police counsel appointed by kujli on the last representation that he made on behalf of Delhi Police was in the Harsha Mander / Colin Gonzalves files case against 3 BJP leaders

https://twitter.com/TheRahulMehra/statu ... 7834800128

https://twitter.com/jgopikrishnan70/sta ... 5967917057

This guy will again will try to sink the Kanhaiya Kumar case.


SO basically they want to sabotage the trial using an insider.

BJP fellas if they will let this go, the case will sink.

Just remember ... 2G case of Raja was handled by Anand Grover ... He totally messed it up.

The conversation continued thus ..
https://twitter.com/TheRahulMehra/statu ... 1940039681
Rahul Mehra @TheRahulMehra

Pl read catena of judgments over70+yrs which obligates all public prosecutors incl my office of StandingCounsel to be independent & not merely a mouthpiece of the Police/State or a mere post office. I must apply my mind &as an officer of the court assist it. Now that’s ethical Sir
So he is saying that he has a right to go against the case built by the Police/State.
https://twitter.com/jgopikrishnan70/sta ... 4733414400
J Gopikrishnan @jgopikrishnan70

Thru State Law Dept you people land for Delhi Police which is under Union Home Ministry. There is no application of mind here. Just mischievous political games. Now LG has to pass Order stop these kind of petty mischievous
Only Delhi riots related case has been take away from him by the LG order. That means that the Kanhaiya Kumar case is still with him!

Kujli bowls a googley. He gives consent to prosecute Kanhaiya Kumar to take the focus away form Tahir Hussain's gruesome handiwork and his party's culpability in the thing. Tahir Hussain will be sacrificed now that the matter has been pulled out of his hands. No matter the initial anger amongst the peacefuls, his peaceful leaders will understand his limitations and will trade their support for a few more sops for their constituency.

He will then use Delhi state standing counsel to scuttle the case againt Kanhaiya Kumar. The liberandus too will fume for a few days but the their sootradhars too will be made aware of the game. They too will settle trade their support for a few more sops and acquittal of Kanhaiya Kumar ultimately.

That way Kujli wins on both front. Yindus will be fooled again unless GOI take control of the Kanhaiya Kumar case just as it has done for the Delhi riot related cases.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 01 Mar 2020 13:23

mahadevbhu wrote:
You sound very certain in ascribing names to me. Does having a different viewpoint cause thus much calumny?

Keeping things in order in one's own country is the job of the GoI. They need to be on top of things, and do all it takes to maintain law and order. Article 370 has gone in Kashmir and how many people are dead due to it? GoI took care.

Delhi, parts of, have ENORMOUS damage. GoI is responsible for being thick headed.


I am not ascribing any name to you, just saying you are being a 'useful idiot' to both TSP and BIF, albeit inadvertently.

I am sure there were govt lapses. Maybe they could have thwarted this, I don't know. And that needs to be looked into.

But the point is that this was a massive conspiracy, and one needs to look into it. Because even if amends are made in Delhi, if the root of this conspiracy is not unearthed and decimated, we will see many more such riots. And your simplistic 'address women of shaheen bag' is just utter nonsense. Because they had no genuine grievance to begin with. Fundamentally, those women are used as guinea pigs in the larger conspiracy. If their protests were genuine, they I would have seen 3 things:

1) a genuine acknowledgment that there is indeed persecution of non Muslims, especially Hindus and Sikhs in TSP
2) List out their specific grievance on CAA as to why they consider it anti India Muslim. Especially after ModiJi confirmed umpteen times that there is no linkage with NRC.
3. Why was dialogue with govt rebuffed? Ravi Shankar Prasad made a genuine appeal, and so did Amit Shah

They did none of the above and instead created a huge theater, gave space to BIF: "Jinnah walli azadi' types. And made CAA look anti Indian Muslim, leading up to the recent attack in Delhi. Only a well organized conspiracy could have pulled something like this off

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby arshyam » 01 Mar 2020 13:25

pankajs wrote:That way Kujli wins on both front. Yindus will be fooled again unless GOI take control of the Kanhaiya Kumar case just as it has done for the Delhi riot related cases.

If true, Kejri is smarter than what we credit him with.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 01 Mar 2020 13:34

mahadevbhu wrote:
.... - they decided to not assuage them too much. Perhaps they wanted to polarise people for the Delhi elections - but that did not work out too well.



2. They need to be more accessible and approachable and human - Rahul Bajaj was right :rotfl: when he said that this govt. does not seem like it can countenance criticism.
3. They need to assuage the effects of CAA and not pour acid into the wounds with NRC - the women of Shaheen Bagh are rightly worried.


You pidi of raul vinci

You teammate of burkha dutt, arundhati roy, ndtv, harsh mandar, shabnam azmi, teesta setlavad, sagarka ghosh, rajdeep rebeiro, prashant bhushan, salim yadav

I can now understand why you want Bharat not to create it's own MIC, but become part of usa supply chain... buy f 35 etc.
Last edited by suryag on 02 Mar 2020 07:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: needless personal attack

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 01 Mar 2020 13:51

mahadevbhu wrote:
Keeping things in order in one's own country is the job of the GoI. They need to be on top of things, and do all it takes to maintain law and order. Article 370 has gone in Kashmir and how many people are dead due to it? GoI took care.

Delhi, parts of, have ENORMOUS damage. GoI is responsible for being thick headed.



I actually agree with this portion of your comment.. GOI was comprehensively defeated politically and tactically by this daring attack, likely by a united brigade of internal & external enemies. A lot depends on how much is learnt from this defeat and how they improve their strategy & tactics.

Hindus got butchered, suffered massive property losses and yet the global narrative has been set as an Islamic pogrom. It simply doesn't happen in any other part of the world. GOI is looking reluctant/incapable of changing this narrative even now.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby RKumar » 01 Mar 2020 14:45

pankajs wrote:Chronology samjhe ..

Harsh Mander @harsh_mander

In my petition seeking FIR against Kapil Mishra & others for hate speech, not only is Justice Murlidhar removed overnight. The new bench admits a petition in the same case seeking FIR against me for hate speech but also sedition, for my call for civil disobedience against CAA

Now they are saying different rules apply between "Hindutvadis" and "peace seekers"! Gajab. Let the courts decide who is a hate monger and who the peace seeker.


These fools are used by the peaceful, by massaging their ego - is ballooned to bigger than the universe and will get a kick in their balls once they are like a used c**dom.

Hopefully government will implement UCC during next parliament session as NDA has comfortable numbers and its now or never moment. One direct effect will be on the the population control. Second, there will be no special rights of majority or minority as per law everyone is same. Third, It will kill many useless and discriminatory laws in one go.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mahadevbhu » 01 Mar 2020 16:10

CRamS wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:
You sound very certain in ascribing names to me. Does having a different viewpoint cause thus much calumny?

Keeping things in order in one's own country is the job of the GoI. They need to be on top of things, and do all it takes to maintain law and order. Article 370 has gone in Kashmir and how many people are dead due to it? GoI took care.

Delhi, parts of, have ENORMOUS damage. GoI is responsible for being thick headed.


I am not ascribing any name to you, just saying you are being a 'useful idiot' to both TSP and BIF, albeit inadvertently.

I am sure there were govt lapses. Maybe they could have thwarted this, I don't know. And that needs to be looked into.

But the point is that this was a massive conspiracy, and one needs to look into it. Because even if amends are made in Delhi, if the root of this conspiracy is not unearthed and decimated, we will see many more such riots. And your simplistic 'address women of shaheen bag' is just utter nonsense. Because they had no genuine grievance to begin with. Fundamentally, those women are used as guinea pigs in the larger conspiracy. If their protests were genuine, they I would have seen 3 things:

1) a genuine acknowledgment that there is indeed persecution of non Muslims, especially Hindus and Sikhs in TSP
2) List out their specific grievance on CAA as to why they consider it anti India Muslim. Especially after ModiJi confirmed umpteen times that there is no linkage with NRC.
3. Why was dialogue with govt rebuffed? Ravi Shankar Prasad made a genuine appeal, and so did Amit Shah

They did none of the above and instead created a huge theater, gave space to BIF: "Jinnah walli azadi' types. And made CAA look anti Indian Muslim, leading up to the recent attack in Delhi. Only a well organized conspiracy could have pulled something like this off


India is a religious place and people take offense fast and are irrational. India is peaceful yes but riots are not far away. This point I'm sure is not lost on Amit shah. He should have taken care to not ram home bills after bills which would be controversial. It's absolutely the GOI s responsibility to maintain sanity. And GOI has failed in this. Let's try to call a spade a spade. GOI needed to be better than how amateurishly they have handled the situation with the CAA. They did okay in Kashmir after 370.

pankajs
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 01 Mar 2020 16:43

mahadevbhu wrote:India is a religious place and people take offense fast and are irrational. India is peaceful yes but riots are not far away. This point I'm sure is not lost on Amit shah. He should have taken care to not ram home bills after bills which would be controversial. It's absolutely the GOI s responsibility to maintain sanity. And GOI has failed in this. Let's try to call a spade a spade. GOI needed to be better than how amateurishly they have handled the situation with the CAA. They did okay in Kashmir after 370.
This is veto talk.

IF this logic were to be accepted, every community would gain veto over the democratic political process by terming any act/bill it does not like as "controversial". Such logic should never be accepted in a democracy. Let's call a spade a spade.

OTOH, Modi/Shah/Delhi Police should be faulted for not anticipating that protests do sometimes spiral out of control and keeping a keen eye on the going on. Also a big intelligence failure that a riot could be planned right under their nose.

Their 2nd failure was that they were unable to reign in active fear mongers who were creating an environment of uncertainly. Some out our media channels were at the forefront of a disinformation campaign against CAA.

GOI needs to do better. I have myself critized Modi/Shah for their failure on both these counts.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Bart S » 01 Mar 2020 16:44

pankajs wrote:Some work on a Indian pov has started it seems ...

https://twitter.com/DrSJaishankar/statu ... 9280718850
Dr. S. Jaishankar @DrSJaishankar

In tht exercise,the strands of Westfullness,globalism,a kind of multilateralism & liberalism are strongly intertwined.The truth is tht everyone–media,think-tanks,self-perceived Ombudsmen–all have a dog in the fight.The challenge tday is to hv the courage to call that out clearly.
A great line by Suresh Prabhu in his opening remarks: The rootless are ruthless!
Debbie Abraham (???) deportation was the latest act of asserting the Indian say in Indian matters.

We will see this trend only get stronger with the passage of time as India and Indians gain confidence in taking issues/narratives and narrative builders headon.


Very good points articulated by EAM and great that the GOI is finally moving in that direction hopefully at an institutional level.

However, the media/narrative management, especially in the world of social media is sorely lacking and somebody needs to take a wrecking ball to the whole setup which seems to be straight out of the 80s where narrative was built by leaks to reporters over drinks in Lutyens that would make the paper the next day.

Debbie Abrahams being a case in point. GOI knew of this in advance (well, if they didn't and this was some lucky catch by individual immigration officer, then we have bigger problems). They should have had teams of people ready to proactively get the first message out to social media. In the world of social media and short attention spans, the FIRST narrative that hits the news waves has the most mileage. Even if it is completely wrong, it is very hard to undo later. Rather than being reactive, they should have been quick to hit the wires with news of Debbie Abrahams being a Paki propagandist, in violation of visa rules due to a cancelled visa that she deliberately tried to sneak in with, yada yada. Instead it was Debbie Abrahams who got the first report out via facebook post while in the detention area!

Same thing happened with Balakot where we had every chance to shape the narrative but people got to know of it only via ISPR's tweet, by which time they had time to set the narrative and seize some of the initiative.

It is absolutely pathetic that a semi-literate bankrupt nation like Pakistan runs rings around us in this regard while GOI and baboons smugly ignore all of this.

Indian lefties/BIF and left-wing MSM are also past masters at doing this, while stupid right-wingers think that their job is done if they publish a 'fact-check' one week later that is logical and rational but has no resonance outside of their small circle or echo chamber.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Bart S » 01 Mar 2020 16:54

OmkarC wrote:I think the biggest flaw of BJP leadership is that they underestimated the intent of the peaceful community.. the Shaheen Bagh women & kids were Trojan horses.. while they were squatting and ensuring all attention was diverted to them, their men were preparing for war - collecting acid, making petrol bombs, catapults, identifying targets, readying their troops for action once Mr. Trump & global cameras zoom in on Delhi .. this was a low-grade Pakistani-sponsored surgical strike, which they executed very well.


Well, they failed to do their sworn duty, which came back to bite them later. The Shaheen Bagh protest was illegal the moment it started occupying public spaces (even if you neglect the sinister Islamists and Naxals orchestrating it behind the scenes).

Why they did it is anybody's guess. Could have been apathy/incompetence or a cynical ploy to let it play out so that polarization helped with the Delhi elections. Either way it was extremely wrong.

If they had cleared out the protest in a timely manner or even right after the elections, they would possibly have been international headlines and some rioting and issues like happened later but you would have kept them engaged fighting on their turf and seized the initiative and proactively maintained control of various things.

By letting it slide, government and law enforcement let them riot at a place and time of their choosing with full preparations and on the offensive rather than defensive.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 01 Mar 2020 16:56

pankajs wrote:OTOH, Modi/Shah/Delhi Police should be faulted for not anticipating that protests do sometimes spiral out of control and keeping a keen eye on the going on. Also a big intelligence failure that a riot could be planned right under their nose.

Their 2nd failure was that they were unable to reign in active fear mongers who were creating an environment of uncertainly. Some out our media channels were at the forefront of a disinformation campaign against CAA.

GOI needs to do better. I have myself critized Modi/Shah for their failure on both these counts.
There is a possibility that Modi/Shah were sabotaged from the inside. The ecosystem is still strong in pockets.

Possible that Modi/Shah were misled into thinking that all was well when the preparation for riots was underway. We will never know BUT it still does not excuse Modi/Shah. They choose not to cleanse the system when the look over but instead relied on system to re-align with the new power and retirements. We know far too many examples of this attitude at work e.g. Rockstar Rajan. The system re-aligned mostly but back-stabbed them at a crucial time.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 01 Mar 2020 17:14

https://twitter.com/NavroopSingh_/statu ... 1315203072
Navroop Singh @NavroopSingh_

One thing after these Riots, Delhi will never be same ever again. The shocks of Delhi will reverbate politically across the heartland over time. The faultlines have sprung up wide open & gaps have become too big to bridged socially despite some good stories coming out of it.
I too think this is going to be the case at least till 2024-25.

Some are still trying to defend Tahir Hussain.
https://twitter.com/newslaundry/status/ ... 5652518913
newslaundry @newslaundry

"The foundation for the allegations against Tahir Hussain seems to be visuals circulated on social media. This, along with reporters’ 'exposés' of 'rioting weapons' at his building, fuelled much of their fire at him."

@SharmaAyan006 reports.
BTW, this is one of the reason why Indian MSM had to scale back its extreme rhetoric from "Muslim pogrom" to "both sides responsible" even though they are still continuing with their subtle propoganda by only highlighting Muslim casualties and sob stories and blacking out Ratan Lal and Ankit Sharma.
Last edited by pankajs on 01 Mar 2020 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mahadevbhu » 01 Mar 2020 17:17

The thing that allows for self-correction, as Rahul Bajaj rightly observed - is a tolerance of criticism. This govt. has shown that it is not very tolerant of alternate feedback and it actively creates social media echo chambers and message disbursement methods. That's why they have a tendency to pass bills which could be termed as "desi" - Demonetization was one and this mishandling of CAA is another.
I am a dyed in the blood Modi supporter and BJP supporter - however, the mistakes made by the GoI are clear to me.

They must correct and recalibrate - they cannot be so thickheaded and self-congratulatory, so as to ignore the effects of feedback which is coming to them from all corners. The RBI is one place from where they were getting feedback, that they stacked with their own pliant people.

It is dangerous to have this level of centralization of power. It's just dangerous. There is no need to have such centralization - there must be more dissipation of power.

People who are dealing with the current GoI are talking about it today - decisions being taken in a very PMO focused manner, not much tolerance of dissent and contrary viewpoints. This needs to be improved and the GoI needs to take along a lot more people rather than play it solo.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mahadevbhu » 01 Mar 2020 17:23

pankajs wrote:
pankajs wrote:OTOH, Modi/Shah/Delhi Police should be faulted for not anticipating that protests do sometimes spiral out of control and keeping a keen eye on the going on. Also a big intelligence failure that a riot could be planned right under their nose.

Their 2nd failure was that they were unable to reign in active fear mongers who were creating an environment of uncertainly. Some out our media channels were at the forefront of a disinformation campaign against CAA.

GOI needs to do better. I have myself critized Modi/Shah for their failure on both these counts.
There is a possibility that Modi/Shah were sabotaged from the inside. The ecosystem is still strong in pockets.

Possible that Modi/Shah were misled into thinking that all was well when the preparation for riots was underway. We will never know BUT it still does not excuse Modi/Shah. They choose not to cleanse the system when the look over but instead relied on system to re-align with the new power and retirements. We know far too many examples of this attitude at work e.g. Rockstar Rajan. The system re-aligned mostly but back-stabbed them at a crucial time.


I don't think there is any reason to look at conspiracy theories when you can just blame silliness on the part of GoI. They did not think CAA through and they did not think it's implementation through.

It is not that easy to find such Rajans, you know Pankaj Ji. Not easy to find people who have done so well, to take a pay cut, to come and work in India - Rockstar Rajan was correct about 2008 crisis in 2005, and he was correct to predict a slowdown in India before he resigned.

All people who have contrary points to one's favoured leaders, are not nincompoops.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 01 Mar 2020 17:43

mahadevbhu wrote:
pankajs wrote:There is a possibility that Modi/Shah were sabotaged from the inside. The ecosystem is still strong in pockets.

Possible that Modi/Shah were misled into thinking that all was well when the preparation for riots was underway. We will never know BUT it still does not excuse Modi/Shah. They choose not to cleanse the system when the look over but instead relied on system to re-align with the new power and retirements. We know far too many examples of this attitude at work e.g. Rockstar Rajan. The system re-aligned mostly but back-stabbed them at a crucial time.


I don't think there is any reason to look at conspiracy theories when you can just blame silliness on the part of GoI. They did not think CAA through and they did not think it's implementation through.

It is not that easy to find such Rajans, you know Pankaj Ji. Not easy to find people who have done so well, to take a pay cut, to come and work in India - Rockstar Rajan was correct about 2008 crisis in 2005, and he was correct to predict a slowdown in India before he resigned.

All people who have contrary points to one's favoured leaders, are not nincompoops.

CAA is very simple and its implementation even simpler. No once except those who are from Bangladesh/Bakistan/Afghanistan from the 6 specified religions need to show up any paper or even show up. CAA does not matter to the rest Indian or nor-Indians. NPR too is simple just like census.

It is only NRC that is complex and one reason it will not be implemented in a hurry. My guess is to complete NRC will need a decade of back and forth though a 1st cout could be ready in 4-5 years.

Rajan's brilliance does not absolve him of the problems that happened under him during his tenure at RBI. Buffett has said
https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/fi ... raits.html
Somebody once said that in looking for people to hire, you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. And if you don't have the first, the other two will kill you. You think about it; it's true. If you hire somebody without [integrity], you really want them to be dumb and lazy.
Modi allowed Rockstar Rajan to retire when he should have sacked him on taking office.

Intelligent people like Rockstar Rajan, who hold a contrary opinion, in critical positions can destroy your plan. I agree with Buffett fully on this.
Last edited by pankajs on 01 Mar 2020 17:46, edited 2 times in total.

chetak
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 01 Mar 2020 17:44

33 yr old Shereefa just delivered her 12th child. Shereefa married to Haneefa, a hotel employee on 2003 had her first baby when she was 18.. Our govt. will of course count this as "demographic dividend" https://mangalam.com/news/detail/376484-keralam.html


Image

chetak
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 01 Mar 2020 17:45

pankajs wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:
I don't think there is any reason to look at conspiracy theories when you can just blame silliness on the part of GoI. They did not think CAA through and they did not think it's implementation through.

It is not that easy to find such Rajans, you know Pankaj Ji. Not easy to find people who have done so well, to take a pay cut, to come and work in India - Rockstar Rajan was correct about 2008 crisis in 2005, and he was correct to predict a slowdown in India before he resigned.

All people who have contrary points to one's favoured leaders, are not nincompoops.

CAA is very simple and its implementation even simpler. No once except those who are from Bangladesh/Bakistan/Afghanistan from the 6 specified religions need to show up any paper or even show up. CAA does not matter to the rest Indian or nor-Indians. NPR too is simple just like census.

It is only NRC that is complex and one reason it will not be implemented in a hurry. My guess is to complete NRC will need a decade of back and forth though a 1st cout could be ready in 4-5 years.

Rajan's brilliance does not absolve him of the problems that happened under him during his tenure at RBI. Buffett has said
Somebody once said that in looking for people to hire, you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. And if you don't have the first, the other two will kill you. You think about it; it's true. If you hire somebody without [integrity], you really want them to be dumb and lazy.
Modi allowed Rockstar Rajan to retire when he should have sacked him on taking office.


the failure of every Hindu leader for centuries. :mrgreen:

and in spite of the disastrous blowback every time, no lessons learned yet.

we have always invited our own destruction for some imagined and misinterpreted concept of "dharma".

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 01 Mar 2020 17:52

LOL, this Govt does not allow dissent. In fact their tolerance of too much dissent has what has led to this situation. Even with the CAA. For 6 years now they have been subject to calumny and slander and have been busy tolerating dissent. If it had been an INC Govt they would have wielded power 100x more powerfully. Modi all said and done, displayed too much Gandhigiri.

chetak
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 01 Mar 2020 18:00

Karan M wrote:LOL, this Govt does not allow dissent. In fact their tolerance of too much dissent has what has led to this situation. Even with the CAA. For 6 years now they have been subject to calumny and slander and have been busy tolerating dissent. If it had been an INC Govt they would have wielded power 100x more powerfully. Modi all said and done, displayed too much Gandhigiri.



modi truly does not know how to wield the stick except among his limited BJP MP flock whose tickets he controls.

All of them do benami NGO business through their sons', daughters' and sons in law.

he is still spending public money supporting runditv and a host of other BIF owned lying media pushing false news against him.

time to bring in strict libel laws like in a majority of other civilized countries

even third grade criminally charged sheeted BJP MLAs in states do not much care for him. Look at the sordid swathe of "swamis and mutt heads" in karnataka trying to control their BJP MLAs by fighting with yeddi to get ministerial berths for them.

can anyone imagine what would happen if actually the control of Hindu temples passed into the hands of such venal "swamis and mutt heads"





twitter


U were 75% nationally when Jinnah made u concede Pak by starting a civil war.

U were 80% nationally when u were forced out of Kashmir

Their local majority is the determining factor. Not ur national majority.

That's why u still can't go back to live in ur own homes in Kashmir!


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