2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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pankajs
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 10:28

Video embedded ... Hope this is played out in the SC today when the matter comes up for hearing. Let this be played alongside the clips of Kapil Mishra and Sonia Gandhi.

https://twitter.com/JammuKashmirNow/sta ... 0313817089
Jammu-Kashmir Now @JammuKashmirNow

#Exposed Here is Ultra-Left Activist Harsh Mandar instigating Anti-CAA Protesters and spewing venom against Supreme Court of India, clearly asking protesters not to believe in highest institution of judiciary.

Translation by someone ...
"Ab faisla Sansad me ya Supreme Court me nahi hoga. Supreme Court ne Ayodhya aur Kashmir k mamle me Secularism ki raksha nahi ki. Isliye ab faisla Sadkon per hoga" Harsh Mander tells to a cheering mob.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 10:37

J Gopikrishnan @jgopikrishnan70

Listening speech of Harsh Mander at JNU Hostel with Mrs Usha Ramanathan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2OEhklxNn4
Harsh Mander talks at a post-dinner Public Meeting at Mahi-Mandavi Mess JNU

Mrs Usha Ramanathan is the wife of the Delhi HC judge who heard the case filed by Harsh Mander & Colin Gonzalves and was trying to railroad the Delhi Police to register FIRs against BJP leaders. Conflict of interest written all over this thing.

Hope this too is played in front of the SC.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 04 Mar 2020 11:03

If Ahmadiya or similar cult followers want to be part of CAA, All they have to do is to declare themselves as Non-Muslims. That's all. How hard it is if they really are being persecuted in terror lands.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Cain Marko » 04 Mar 2020 11:10

pankajs wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:^Very interesting sir, and I think that the drafters of the CAA missed the little bus in not allowing for "other minorities". In reality everybody knows and the fact remains that persecuted minorities from TSP, BD,and Afg will almost always be non-muslim. So it might have benefitted in not naming those religious groups and thereby preventing the mass hysteria that has followed.

Nevertheless, the emphasis on NMs in the Lautenberg amendment is clear enough for desis to rebutt the stupidity that they have to deal with from others, esp. desis.

Another counterpoint about the Delhi riots is the fact that if these were the handiwork of the Hingoi (Hindu Nationalist GOI), then why would they push such "pogroms" right during the visit of the POTUS?

We need to have a clear list of simple and effective counters to the fake narratives being bandied about

Ahmedias too would qualify under "minorities" or "other minorities" 'cos they are declared non-muslim in bakistan by law. Tomorrow, if Hazaras are classified as "non-muslim" they too would quality for Indian citizenship under a generic law.

So? The law is about religious minority persecution, no? Point ULTIMATELY is that it would be up to India to make a case by case decision. And that would give the GOI enough leeway to make decisions as per it's interests. But by excluding one particular community you give fuel to this who want to cause trouble, which is what we have seen for the past few months.

Vikas wrote:If Ahmadiya or similar cult followers want to be part of CAA, All they have to do is to declare themselves as Non-Muslims. That's all. How hard it is if they really are being persecuted in terror lands.

Why should they?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 11:32

Cain Marko wrote:
pankajs wrote:Ahmedias too would qualify under "minorities" or "other minorities" 'cos they are declared non-muslim in bakistan by law. Tomorrow, if Hazaras are classified as "non-muslim" they too would quality for Indian citizenship under a generic law.

So? The law is about religious minority persecution, no? Point ULTIMATELY is that it would be up to India to make a case by case decision. And that would give the GOI enough leeway to make decisions as per it's interests. But by excluding one particular community you give fuel to this who want to cause trouble, which is what we have seen for the past few months.
EXACTY! Ahmedias are "non-muslims" per baki law and are actively persecuted and therefore are "religious minority" being persecuted in bakistan. Generic wording would immediately open the door for them.

Generic wording is trouble Plus with a hostile activist segment and an activist SC the "other" in the "other minorities" could easily be re-interpreted as mean "ethnic" minorities that would open the doors for the Hazaras of bakistan or "linguistic" minorities that would open the door for someone else and so on and so forth.

In India "India to make a case by case decision" most often will result in "Indian Activist petitioning and Indian SC making" determination on a case to case basis to expand the list. GOI would be at the mercy of the SC's interpretive impulse. Have we not seen enough of it already?

GOI did right by making it explicit who is being helped and NOT leave it to the impulse of a later Government/Activist/Judge/Court. Better to suffer an initial bout of trouble than have a permanent opening that would be expanded at will to accommodate every claim of prosecution.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 04 Mar 2020 11:58

pankajs wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:So? The law is about religious minority persecution, no? Point ULTIMATELY is that it would be up to India to make a case by case decision. And that would give the GOI enough leeway to make decisions as per it's interests. But by excluding one particular community you give fuel to this who want to cause trouble, which is what we have seen for the past few months.
EXACTY! Ahmedias are "non-muslims" per baki law and are actively persecuted and therefore are "religious minority" being persecuted in bakistan. Generic wording would immediately open the door for them.

Generic wording is trouble Plus with a hostile activist segment and an activist SC the "other" in the "other minorities" could easily be re-interpreted as mean "ethnic" minorities that would open the doors for the Hazaras of bakistan or "linguistic" minorities that would open the door for someone else and so on and so forth.

In India "India to make a case by case decision" most often will result in "Indian Activist petitioning and Indian SC making" determination on a case to case basis to expand the list. GOI would be at the mercy of the SC's interpretive impulse. Have we not seen enough of it already?

GOI did right by making it explicit who is being helped and NOT leave it to the impulse of a later Government/Activist/Judge/Court. Better to suffer an initial bout of trouble than have a permanent opening that would be expanded at will to accommodate every claim of prosecution.


Why should GOI call someone Non-Muslim if they are Muslims. Ahmadiya claim to be Muslims, so be it.
I agree that GOI did the right thing without any ambiguity in the bill.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 04 Mar 2020 12:01

Cain Marko wrote:
pankajs wrote:
Why should they?


If they want to get refugee status under CAA, they should declare themselves as non-Muslims.
After all Just like I cant be racist towards other Indians, similarly a Muslim can't be persecutor against another Muslim (I can even find out a Surah or Hadis for it).

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 04 Mar 2020 12:09

Cain Marko wrote:Point ULTIMATELY is that it would be up to India to make a case by case decision. And that would give the GOI enough leeway to make decisions as per it's interests. But by excluding one particular community you give fuel to this who want to cause trouble, which is what we have seen for the past few months.

The bolded part is not really correct. Muslims can still seek citizenship in India and can be given the same if GoI of the day feels so. The CAA only simplifies the process for non-Muslims who are persecuted in Islamic countries in our neighbourhood. The Anti-CAA protest is actually more than that. It is more of taking out the frusturation on the Triple Talaq ban, the Ayodhya verdict and the Article 370 removal. It is tantrums thrown by a community who felt that they could still play the old Moghul Sultanate.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby negi » 04 Mar 2020 12:39

Now that HAF is back in new avatar I am surprised BRF debates are so much superficial did you guys pay attention to protests in JNU, AMU and Shaheen Bagh ? The graffiti said "Khilafat 2.0" (you guys should remember Khilafat 1.0 was about Indian muslims rallying towards for err..... restoring the Caliph of Ottoman empire) , then there were slogans like "ye jo dehshatgardi hai uske peeche wardi hai" a straight lift from NWFP and bhain ka pakoda Mushy days. The display of Ambedkar's photo , the tricolour and reference to constitution of India are just tricks to play the victim card , keeping women and children in front a straight copy from Hamas and other established Jehadi tactics. Basically rioters were nicely warming up for Trump's visit while police in Delhi was busy collecting bribes from daily commuters and me-lords in supreme court on lookout for another spicy case to feel important and show the centre how a group of incestuous budhdhas get to decide what is right and what is wrong. HM also failed miserably for they should have sent in firebrigades and cops with tear gas shells to disperse the crowd on even of Trump's arrival in the name of security for POTUS I am sure no one in western media could have said a word , all one had to do was make it look like part of standard protocol but then dorks of Delhi can't seem to know shit, the public there anyways has sold their future for free electricity worth few hundred rupees and gotten Jehadi B team elected.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby OmkarC » 04 Mar 2020 12:45

Off topic, two points, totally unrelated:

I) Going back to RSS chief's remark on why we need to stop calling ourselves as "Nationalists" due to the global negative connotation associated with that word.. I think its a simple but powerful observation.. wonder why we don't call ourselves "Liberals" instead of those who are pandering to Muslims for their vote bank or due to greed of foreign funds ?? Just think of it.. liberated Muslim women from oppressive practices like TTT, gave refuge to persecuted minorities suffering religious oppression and are now trying to outlaw Polygamy and such medieval practices, trying for universal equality & fairness in application of law.. And to top it off, it was in Modiji's tenure that India decriminalized homosexuality and also restored LGBTQ rights. Shouldn't we bolster the narrative - we are liberals fighting for justice.. against Islamo-fascists who want to establish Sharia in India and oppress all other religions, the communists who want to suppress freedom & liberalism, and finally the "fake liberals" who are mere sidekicks of these two.

II) If Indian fake liberals (they need to be called out with their right name: "Supporters of Islamo Fascism" (SIFs)) can align ideologically with the democrats and labor, gain access to their press & news media.. why dont Hindu Liberals try to reach out and try to befriend right wing/center-right news media outlets ?? There must be some give and take here that could appeal to them, while they help us disseminate our perspectives on a global scale. India gained a lot of good will from their ilk before the riots narrative took over. On some sites, it looks like whenever there is a budding pro-India perspective both rabid EJs and Khalistanis bring attention back to some sporadic crimes and taint entire country.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Mar 2020 12:48

Meenakshi Lekhi is the best Member of Parliament:

Meenakshi Lekhi:

Has UNHRC heard of Lautenberg amendment for persecuted groups which grants refugee status in the United States for Jews, Evangelical Christians,Catholics,Orthodox or Baha’is. UNHRC should disclose how many Hindus have been given refugees status from Pak, Afg or Bangladesh?



https://twitter.com/M_Lekhi/status/1234 ... 27105?s=19

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 04 Mar 2020 13:24

pankajs wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:So? The law is about religious minority persecution, no? Point ULTIMATELY is that it would be up to India to make a case by case decision. And that would give the GOI enough leeway to make decisions as per it's interests. But by excluding one particular community you give fuel to this who want to cause trouble, which is what we have seen for the past few months.
EXACTY! Ahmedias are "non-muslims" per baki law and are actively persecuted and therefore are "religious minority" being persecuted in bakistan. Generic wording would immediately open the door for them.

Generic wording is trouble Plus with a hostile activist segment and an activist SC the "other" in the "other minorities" could easily be re-interpreted as mean "ethnic" minorities that would open the doors for the Hazaras of bakistan or "linguistic" minorities that would open the door for someone else and so on and so forth.

In India "India to make a case by case decision" most often will result in "Indian Activist petitioning and Indian SC making" determination on a case to case basis to expand the list. GOI would be at the mercy of the SC's interpretive impulse. Have we not seen enough of it already?

GOI did right by making it explicit who is being helped and NOT leave it to the impulse of a later Government/Activist/Judge/Court. Better to suffer an initial bout of trouble than have a permanent opening that would be expanded at will to accommodate every claim of prosecution.


ahmedias are a muslim sect and not a separate religion per se.

They are muslims in India and a vast majority of countries around the world.

why the special sympathies for these guys who were among the first of those who screamed the loudest for a separate muslim homeland called pukiland.

so now that they are getting shafted in their own dream country which they strived to build and succeeded in helping by from liberating it from India, do they really need to be given a do over by us.

which paki muslim "religiously persecuted" sect is next in line, eagerly waiting to hotfoot it into India, the many, many tens of millions of shias

The bill is perfectly fine as it stands.

The muslim BIF want India to accept muslim refugees from the on going middle east wars when the EU and all other white skin countries ban these guys outright just like poland has done.

the demographics in India will then change almost 2-3 decades faster.

there are already thousands of war wounded terrorists from the ME in dilli and other big cities for medical treatment and all of them have multiple family members accompanying them. This is mainly due to the greed and kickbacks from corporate hospitals to the baboo(n)s and those further up on the food chain. Many unknown NGOs and several ME govts are footing the bills.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 04 Mar 2020 14:49

negi wrote:Now that HAF is back in new avatar I am surprised BRF debates are so much superficial did you guys pay attention to protests in JNU, AMU and Shaheen Bagh ? The graffiti said "Khilafat 2.0" (you guys should remember Khilafat 1.0 was about Indian muslims rallying towards for err..... restoring the Caliph of Ottoman empire) , then there were slogans like "ye jo dehshatgardi hai uske peeche wardi hai" a straight lift from NWFP and bhain ka pakoda Mushy days. The display of Ambedkar's photo , the tricolour and reference to constitution of India are just tricks to play the victim card , keeping women and children in front a straight copy from Hamas and other established Jehadi tactics. Basically rioters were nicely warming up for Trump's visit while police in Delhi was busy collecting bribes from daily commuters and me-lords in supreme court on lookout for another spicy case to feel important and show the centre how a group of incestuous budhdhas get to decide what is right and what is wrong. HM also failed miserably for they should have sent in firebrigades and cops with tear gas shells to disperse the crowd on even of Trump's arrival in the name of security for POTUS I am sure no one in western media could have said a word , all one had to do was make it look like part of standard protocol but then dorks of Delhi can't seem to know shit, the public there anyways has sold their future for free electricity worth few hundred rupees and gotten Jehadi B team elected.


Negi, Great to see you back.

Don't hate me for saying this but don't riots play into the hands of anyone interested in further polarization for electoral benefit ? Why assume that some powerful folks were incompetent.
I think India is divided on religious lines and lot of koolaid drinking yuppies suddenly felt the chill in their spine with all the vile and violence against 'Majority' community.
Why is Delhi voter being pilloried for making the right choice if Kejriwal govt has done decent job. One doesn't cause landslide with partly free electricity and water connection.

L&O is central govt responsibility and not Delhi govts so what was holding back central govt unless my earlier insinuation has some resonance..

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 15:32

Vikas wrote:
pankajs wrote:EXACTY! Ahmedias are "non-muslims" per baki law and are actively persecuted and therefore are "religious minority" being persecuted in bakistan. Generic wording would immediately open the door for them.

Generic wording is trouble Plus with a hostile activist segment and an activist SC the "other" in the "other minorities" could easily be re-interpreted as mean "ethnic" minorities that would open the doors for the Hazaras of bakistan or "linguistic" minorities that would open the door for someone else and so on and so forth.

In India "India to make a case by case decision" most often will result in "Indian Activist petitioning and Indian SC making" determination on a case to case basis to expand the list. GOI would be at the mercy of the SC's interpretive impulse. Have we not seen enough of it already?

GOI did right by making it explicit who is being helped and NOT leave it to the impulse of a later Government/Activist/Judge/Court. Better to suffer an initial bout of trouble than have a permanent opening that would be expanded at will to accommodate every claim of prosecution.


Why should GOI call someone Non-Muslim if they are Muslims. Ahmadiya claim to be Muslims, so be it.
I agree that GOI did the right thing without any ambiguity in the bill.
Ahmadiya are declared non-muslim in bakistan and IFFF CAA is for "religious minorities" they might well get the SC of India to endorse their inclusion. Remember, the bill is about minorities in Bakistan, Afg. or Bang and NOT their position in India.

Therefore, to prevent mischief in India, it is important to name the community and prevent gaming of the law.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 15:45

chetak wrote:
pankajs wrote:EXACTY! Ahmedias are "non-muslims" per baki law and are actively persecuted and therefore are "religious minority" being persecuted in bakistan. Generic wording would immediately open the door for them.

Generic wording is trouble Plus with a hostile activist segment and an activist SC the "other" in the "other minorities" could easily be re-interpreted as mean "ethnic" minorities that would open the doors for the Hazaras of bakistan or "linguistic" minorities that would open the door for someone else and so on and so forth.

In India "India to make a case by case decision" most often will result in "Indian Activist petitioning and Indian SC making" determination on a case to case basis to expand the list. GOI would be at the mercy of the SC's interpretive impulse. Have we not seen enough of it already?

GOI did right by making it explicit who is being helped and NOT leave it to the impulse of a later Government/Activist/Judge/Court. Better to suffer an initial bout of trouble than have a permanent opening that would be expanded at will to accommodate every claim of prosecution.


ahmedias are a muslim sect and not a separate religion per se.

They are muslims in India and a vast majority of countries around the world.

why the special sympathies for these guys who were among the first of those who screamed the loudest for a separate muslim homeland called pukiland.

so now that they are getting shafted in their own dream country which they strived to build and succeeded in helping by from liberating it from India, do they really need to be given a do over by us.

which paki muslim "religiously persecuted" sect is next in line, eagerly waiting to hotfoot it into India, the many, many tens of millions of shias

The bill is perfectly fine as it stands.

The muslim BIF want India to accept muslim refugees from the on going middle east wars when the EU and all other white skin countries ban these guys outright just like poland has done.

the demographics in India will then change almost 2-3 decades faster.

there are already thousands of war wounded terrorists from the ME in dilli and other big cities for medical treatment and all of them have multiple family members accompanying them. This is mainly due to the greed and kickbacks from corporate hospitals to the baboo(n)s and those further up on the food chain. Many unknown NGOs and several ME govts are footing the bills.
Same as in my post above ...

Aahmedias are declared "non-Muslims" in bakistan by law and CAA is about persecuted "minorities" in our neighborhood including Bakistan.

The moment you have a generic law about persecuted "minorities" or "other minorities" you will see petition in SC of India arguing why Aahmedias too qualify under such a theoretical CAA. One must look at the issue not as commonsense dictates but on technicality that will be used to argued in the courts of India. There is a very good chance that Aahmedias would be allowed under such a "generic" law "theoretical" CAA by the SC.

Therefore, the law had to be specific.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 16:01

https://twitter.com/utkarsh_aanand/stat ... 8017224704
Utkarsh Anand @utkarsh_aanand

#SupremeCourt declines to hear Harsh Mander today in his petition after SG Tushar Mehta adduces transcripts of his reported speech at #Jamia wherein he said there is no trust left in the courts & that ultimate justice has to be on the streets.

#CJI: We will sort this out first.
EXACTLY! This guy and other so called "liberal" speech and twitter commentary given before Kapil Mishra needs to be examined. SC should mandate exhamination of speech/comment in cronological order and filing of the case. I have no problems with a FIR on Kapil Mishra provided we have similar FIRs against every one of the liberandus who gave far more provocative speech preceding him.
#SupremeCourt tells Mander's lawyer that if this is what he feels about the courts then it will have to be decided first whether he should be given a hearing at all.

A separate petition on #DelhiViolence to be heard now.
As advocate Karuna Nundy, appearing for Harsh Mander, seeks time to verify the alleged hate speech, SG Mehta says this is strange that he wants time for verifying his own speech but wants FIRs against everyone immediately.
Mander along with Gonzalves and the Delhi HC judge tried to railroad the Delhi police into registering FIRs on BJP leaders without a proper hearing!
Many have violated the majesty of law. Are you also one of them? CJI asks Mander's lawyer Nundy as #SupremeCourt makes it clear that he won't be heard today.

Mehta cites an old plea by Harsh Mander in which he had called upon #SupremeCourt judges to show loyalty to nation.
SG Tushar Mehta also undertakes to file an affidavit regarding Mander's alleged hate speech.

Mehta also points out Sr adv Colin Gonsalves appeared for Mander in #Delhi HC & now he is appearing for different petitioners in the #SupremeCourt without a complete disclosure.
Exactly the problem before Delhi HC where conflict on Interest was brushed aside. It needs to be called out.
Gonsalves claims it was a speech by @KapilMishra_IND that started the #DelhiRiots.

Mehta calls it fallacious that statement by one person started the riots. He adds more than 400 FIRs are lodged but the attempt by the petitioner is for FIRs only against some specific leaders.
More BSing ...
SG Mehta says that the #DelhiPolice may challenge Justice Muralidhar's order, commenting upon the force.

"This order shouldn't have been passed for more than one reason," says Mehta.

#DelhiViolence
YESSSSSS ... "more than one reason" is a hint on the conflict of interest.
Gonsalves: I was completely demoralised when the #Delhi HC adjourned the matter to Apr 13 without any effective order.

SG: I was more demoralised when I was cakekd at 10.30 AM, & asked to come back at 12.30 AM for all answers...I was heckled. People shouted 'shame shame' in HC
Still playing victim but answered aptly ..
#SupremeCourt dictates its order: The petition by the victims transmitted to the #Delhi HC, [b]to be heard on #Friday along with other connected matters[/b]. HC should hear it as expeditiously as possible, says the top court.

#DelhiViolence
I think the last part hints that the SC want all the petition to be heard together i.e. one against the BJP leaders and the others against prominent liberandus.
#SupremeCourt shoots down Mander's request to put off the case against him to a later day. His lawyer says Mander is currently on a flight to the US.

SG: Oh..so he is enjoying his time in the US after doing all this.

SC to hear the matter against Mander on Friday.
Good!

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 04 Mar 2020 17:13

How come people like Harsh Mandar and Prashant Bhushan get SC to listen to their petitions on priority every time while rest of the 5 crore simple stand in Queue hoping to get Darshan of Me-Lords ?
What exactly is the necessity to even hear their case in this decade whereas hoi polloi has to wait for the next generation to get a hearing ?

Gonsalves: I was completely demoralised when the #Delhi HC adjourned the matter to Apr 13 without any effective order.

Has SC or HC ever specified why some of the NGO & their celebrity lawyers always get hearing on the very first day that a date of April 13th broke this poor guys heart ?
#SupremeCourt shoots down Mander's request to put off the case against him to a later day. His lawyer says Mander is currently on a flight to the US.


To get next round of funding from Unkill Soros and also directions on "How to decide on the roads" ???
My guess is that next round of violence will be orchestrated against Dalits to get them riled up against Modi Govt.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Mar 2020 17:32

https://twitter.com/Sreeniv/status/1234995841259098112
T.P.Sreenivasan @Sreeniv

The decision by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to be a party to the Supreme Court in India is in blatant violation of the UN Charter and the mandate of the HC. I led the Indian delegation to the consultations to create the office and such a possibility was not imagined
Instead he should go to the court and put his views on record.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Mar 2020 17:38

Prakash Javedkar is garbage.
https://twitter.com/English_bahen/statu ... 84353?s=19

TWITTER
English Behen writes:

Had the privilege of speaking to @mariawirth1 ji yesterday when she was working hard on petition to UN against abuse, denigration of #Hindus. One abuser is Saba Naqvi but Prakash Jhavdekar gives her an award :x

Lets nominate @mariawirth1 to run Modiji SM on 8th #SheInspiresUs

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Primus » 04 Mar 2020 18:17

CRamS wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:CRamS( and others!) CBC radio in Canada has gone very left, with its coverage of the Delhi riots. That lady that both you and I like for her great balance, is absent, and the issue is being handled by blatantly slanted, one sided hosts. A Carleton U prof by the name of Varughese was interviewed, and it was a totally predictable attack on the BJP and Hindutva, devoid of subtlety or balance. Scripted, single tracked.


Varoon, on the white 'Global' narrative, we have been pummeled, lock, stock, and barrel post CAA reaching a crescendo post Delhi riots. Just like how Kohli & Co were battered in the recently concluded 1-day and test series in NZ. Thats water under the rug. I've stopped reading any global shit.

Let me give you another example. I was talking to a Brit colleague where he and I are on business in India. He is definitely knowledgeable on subcontinent affairs, fairly well read. Over the dinner table, other gora American colleagues asked about Delhi riots. To which this f!ker without batting an eyelid repeated the clinching narrative: "India govt passed a refugee citizenship law that favors everyone except Muslims".

You listen to BBC, CNN international, NYT, WP, Economist, Aljazeera etc; and this bold-faced lie cast in stone.

I intervened and explained to the American goras that what the Brit said was putting the worst spin on a compassionate legislation giving refuge to persecuted minorities fleeing neighboring Islamic countries. . I cited the Lautenberg amendment, and in general how US cares for persecuted Christians and Jews. And I asked the rhetorical question on whether this means US discriminates against other religions?

So as the IQ level of the conversation started rising, the American goras tuned off and were discussing where to go over the weekend and food at the hotel. The Brit smirked at my response and said nobody in the 'world' believes that Indian govt cares for persecuted minorities, Indian govt only did it because they hate Muslims. I said rubbish and left it there because I was arguing with an ossified rock.

So anyway, question is where do we go from here? Like Kohli and Co need to introspect after the NZ debacle, ModiJi should know that 1-liners on Twitter won't cut it. The BIF ecosystem is relentlessly going after him. Current round goes to BIF and Hindu haters.

ModiJi still has 4 years. I already sense BIF led by that dunce of a dog Pappu are already piling on ModiJi for the corona virus response. Delhi riots will be out of the headlines pretty soon and corona virus might take center stage. Given that Corona virus scare will get a lot of attention among goras, hope ModiJi and BJP govt do not loose the narrative on this.

One does not have to be a colonized SDRE to say this, but sadly, as I mention in another post yesterday, India is still not powerful enough to set the narrative on its terms, but at least ModiJi & Co can ensure that there is a sense of balance.


A good friend of mine is a self-confessed political news junkie. He has been forwarding me stuff like the John Oliver segment on Modi, genuinely curious for my views. I flooded his email with videos and images related to the Delhi riots. He apologized and agreed he knows nothing about India and was just curious because he had read and seen so much negative stuff about Modi.

I think it is worth asking if you can reply in emails and then flood the guy's account. He can at best just delete your emails but will know that you really mean business. Talking over a meal with other people present simply allows an escape route.

As a final step, I have offered my friend a 'long talk over a drink' if he is really interested. Will see if he really is.

Usually it is best to stay away from public discussions with people who suffer from cognitive dissonance.

chetak
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 04 Mar 2020 18:26

Kamal Nath -Led Congress Government In Madhya Pradesh Teeters On The Brink, 8 Rebel MLAs In Gurgaon Hotel https://swarajyamag.com/insta/kamal-nat ... gaon-hotel via @swarajyamag

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 04 Mar 2020 18:28

Harpreet @CestMoiz · Feb 23
In the 200+ years of US as a democracy, each and every President till 2008 has been a White Christian Male. Obama broke ONE out of those three criteria for two terms.
Irony, anyone?



twitter


Just a few years ago the Indian Prime Minister was a Sikh, President a Muslim, and party leader a Christian - in a majority Hindu country. Now not so much.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KL Dubey » 04 Mar 2020 18:29

Considering the "future tense" tone of some of these CAA discussions, this post is to ensure we are all on same page.

Please take a minute to actually read the official CAA. It's not a long text, just a couple of paragraphs to be inserted in the existing Citizenship law.

http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf

"Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014..."

The present CAA is NOT about future immigrants, it is about the past immigrants (specifically those who entered before 2014).

In other words, CAA has enabled an "instant demographic change" in the right direction (i.e. more Hindoos) by putting millions more Hindoos and related groups on the voter rolls. This is what the RoP and BIF wallahs are ticked off about, the rest of the moral lectures are all just a cover.

The CAA can have no adverse effect on demographics.

Regarding the Ahmadis, Hazaras, Rohingyas, or RoPs in general, I emphatically agree they must not be included. Although the numbers of these people arriving in India as refugees before 2014 is probably small compared to Hindoos, including them will set an undesirable precedent and complicate future legislations. E.g. if persecution of HIndoos continues unabated in the three neighboring "sh!thole countries", a future amendment may become necessary to change the cut off date from 2014 to a more recent one.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 04 Mar 2020 18:32

this Richard Fontaine @RHFontaine is an entitled ahole.

Sauce for the amerkis is not sauce for the Indians.

white supremacist at home but a sickularist abroad lecturing the SDREs on democracy and diversity.


Just a few years ago the Indian Prime Minister was a Sikh, President a Muslim, and party leader a Christian - in a majority Hindu country. Now not so much.



Image

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Mar 2020 20:21

^^^ there we go again. The need for reassurance. Might help to develop a data base. When the Brit comments on GOI’s treatment of Muslims, the obvious response is that it is better than aerial bombing the northwest frontier using Wapitis.

The smirk usually vanishes along with the wearer after such a gentle remonstrance.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Mar 2020 20:49

Problem is assuming good faith with folks who are openly a$$holes like western journos, academics. General people are still open to changing their mind.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby sudarshan » 04 Mar 2020 21:05

^ Well, the openly arrogant types are beyond reach. The general people have to be handled just right, or they tune out at the first opportunity. I've also had some experience with these "general people." They start by asking leading questions. As and when you answer, they keep looking at you unwinkingly. When you finish, they go - "nice spin, dude, unfortunately for you, I already know the truth from the CNN/ BBC." So these people are under the impression that their media spin is the truth, they've already made up their minds, and the only reason why they're asking you questions is to judge how honest you are in admitting the flaws in your country! If you are the typical sickular moron kind, they like that, they treat you as one of their own and invite you drinking. If you're like me, countering the propaganda with facts, they smirk and mentally label you as a Hindoo nationalist. And of course, they get confirmation from the sickular types, that you are the intolerant one, that the media propaganda is right.

But - when Modi won in 2014, a couple of years later, one of these gora characters who gobble up media spin, came to me and asked "what is the truth about those Delhi rapes?" I told this person that the bare facts were true, but the extrapolations to the whole of India were beyond ridiculous. Then I asked "why are you asking me this?" The person said - "no, you once told me that Modi was being demonized, and it seems you were right, so I wanted to get your opinion of some of the other things I'm hearing about India." I took the opportunity to tell the person that their media could not be trusted, that one had to use one's own intelligence and not just go with the propaganda, especially when this media was reporting about some other country which it had no clue about. So, these folks do occasionally have a grain of introspection salted away somewhere, you got to find it and encourage them to use it.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ranjan.rao » 04 Mar 2020 21:21

doesnt firms have an informal policy that any political discussions should be avoided. I know many of firms discourage employees to bring such matters with clients and US stakeholders..

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby VKumar » 04 Mar 2020 22:30

pankajs wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:^Very interesting sir, and I think that the drafters of the CAA missed the little bus in not allowing for "other minorities". In reality everybody knows and the fact remains that persecuted minorities from TSP, BD,and Afg will almost always be non-muslim. So it might have benefitted in not naming those religious groups and thereby preventing the mass hysteria that has followed.

Nevertheless, the emphasis on NMs in the Lautenberg amendment is clear enough for desis to rebutt the stupidity that they have to deal with from others, esp. desis.

Another counterpoint about the Delhi riots is the fact that if these were the handiwork of the Hingoi (Hindu Nationalist GOI), then why would they push such "pogroms" right during the visit of the POTUS?

We need to have a clear list of simple and effective counters to the fake narratives being bandied about

Ahmedias too would qualify under "minorities" or "other minorities" 'cos they are declared non-muslim in bakistan by law. Tomorrow, if Hazaras are classified as "non-muslim" they too would quality for Indian citizenship under a generic law.


Muslims left out from refugees from neighborhood,
Mainly to prevent Rohingyas from claiming citizenship. To make doubly sure, left out Myanmar altogether.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby dsreedhar » 04 Mar 2020 22:38

https://mha.gov.in/PDF_Other/AnnexVI_01022018.pdf

It seems Indian Long Term Visa rules has provision that states the same 3 countries (Pak, Afghan, Bdesh) and the same category of minorities. When were these rules framed?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Primus » 04 Mar 2020 22:50

sudarshan wrote:^ Well, the openly arrogant types are beyond reach. The general people have to be handled just right, or they tune out at the first opportunity. I've also had some experience with these "general people." They start by asking leading questions. As and when you answer, they keep looking at you unwinkingly. When you finish, they go - "nice spin, dude, unfortunately for you, I already know the truth from the CNN/ BBC." So these people are under the impression that their media spin is the truth, they've already made up their minds, and the only reason why they're asking you questions is to judge how honest you are in admitting the flaws in your country! If you are the typical sickular moron kind, they like that, they treat you as one of their own and invite you drinking. If you're like me, countering the propaganda with facts, they smirk and mentally label you as a Hindoo nationalist. And of course, they get confirmation from the sickular types, that you are the intolerant one, that the media propaganda is right.

But - when Modi won in 2014, a couple of years later, one of these gora characters who gobble up media spin, came to me and asked "what is the truth about those Delhi rapes?" I told this person that the bare facts were true, but the extrapolations to the whole of India were beyond ridiculous. Then I asked "why are you asking me this?" The person said - "no, you once told me that Modi was being demonized, and it seems you were right, so I wanted to get your opinion of some of the other things I'm hearing about India." I took the opportunity to tell the person that their media could not be trusted, that one had to use one's own intelligence and not just go with the propaganda, especially when this media was reporting about some other country which it had no clue about. So, these folks do occasionally have a grain of introspection salted away somewhere, you got to find it and encourage them to use it.


In my experience, the liberal types are particularly difficult to get across. They have drunk the Koolaid so much they are bursting from it. The other issue is that these are rabid Trump haters and very easily equate Modi=Trump. The presstitutes have also slapped the 'fascist' label on the BJP and Modi and this again resonates with the SJW and the Woke crowd in the US.

However, once in a while you do come across an American who is well informed, balanced even, and is willing to listen to arguments that are the counter to the mainstream narrative. That however, is a rare occurence.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 04 Mar 2020 22:55

Manish_Sharma wrote:Prakash Javedkar is garbage.
https://twitter.com/English_bahen/statu ... 84353?s=19

TWITTER
English Behen writes:

Had the privilege of speaking to @mariawirth1 ji yesterday when she was working hard on petition to UN against abuse, denigration of #Hindus. One abuser is Saba Naqvi but Prakash Jhavdekar gives her an award :x

Lets nominate @mariawirth1 to run Modiji SM on 8th #SheInspiresUs


Do we know when and where Prakash Javdekar gave award to Saba Naqvi before demonizing him ?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Lekhraj » 04 Mar 2020 23:52

Lots of awards are given by error. Today also, an award was given in the name of Yuva awards to someone who is involved in soul harvesting. I have conveyed the message through a messenger, but the award has been given and pictured already clicked.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby krithivas » 05 Mar 2020 00:12

Is Harsh Mander a non-Hindu hiding under a Hindu alias? Like Mahesh Bhatt?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby shravanp » 05 Mar 2020 00:26

Vikas wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:Prakash Javedkar is garbage.
https://twitter.com/English_bahen/statu ... 84353?s=19



Do we know when and where Prakash Javdekar gave award to Saba Naqvi before demonizing him ?


It could also be that she gave media award to Javdekar :lol:

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby shravanp » 05 Mar 2020 00:29

Some of the associations of Harsh Mander -->

Sexual abuse of kids at shelter home: Case filed

A case of unnatural offences under IPC Section 377 has been registered following investigations into allegations of sexual abuse of children at a shelter home in Mehrauli. The case was registered on Monday against the shelter home's manager and a two elder boys, who are also residents of the facility.

Charges have also been pressed under the Juvenile Justice Act. Deputy Commissioner of Police (South) Chhaya Sharma said: "We have registered a case under Section 377 against the two senior boys and under 23 JJ Act against the manager of the home. Investigations are underway."

Police will now conduct a verification test to determine the age of the victims and the senior boys.

The case was registered following an order from Child Welfare Committee, which received a probe report from the Delhi Police establishing the incident.

According to police, Umeed Aman Ghar is affiliated to an organisation headed by a National Advisory Council member Harsh Mander. The victims were reportedly abused by their seniors in February this year.

According to police, during questioning the manager said he had not reported the incident to CWC or police as initially there were no reports of sexual abuse but of "mere fondling".

"He told us that when he got to know that the seniors had misbehaved, he threw them out," a senior police officer said.

But in the absence of a report, police plan to hold the manager accountable.

"The matter should have been reported to police or CWC. The manager is equally at fault," the officer said.

Police will decide on the action against the manager after the completion of investigations. No arrests have been made so far.

The CWC in its order directed the Delhi government to revoke the licence of the shelter home. "The committee recommends for consideration of revocation of the provisional licence given to the institution by the Department of Women and Children, Government of Delhi," the order said.


All this even while he shamelessly peddled opposite of that.

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/column ... 615539.ece

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Mar 2020 00:36

krithivas wrote:Is Harsh Mander a non-Hindu hiding under a Hindu alias? Like Mahesh Bhatt?

Pls look up history. Mr. Mander is a distinguished IAS aphsar who also happened to be on the payroll of ActionAid (was it?) the British chartiy who strive to hide the fact that they are in fact CHRISTIANAid, a rabidly conversionist scam started in London.
Circa 2001/2002 Mander resigned in a high-profile exit(probably as the ED were closing in on him), condemned the Hindutva Govt, and became fulltime at ActionAid in Bangalore (IIRC). Sometime later his assistant Bibi resigned loudly protesting about harassment.

Nothing has ever fazed Harsh Mander. Maybe he "has the goods" on all top Indian enforcement/anti-corruption/ CBI people and Mantris. Direct from MI-6.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 05 Mar 2020 02:04

Cain Marko wrote:So? The law is about religious minority persecution, no? Point ULTIMATELY is that it would be up to India to make a case by case decision. And that would give the GOI enough leeway to make decisions as per it's interests. But by excluding one particular community you give fuel to this who want to cause trouble, which is what we have seen for the past few months.

CAA fundamentally is not about excluding a particular religious minority. It's a mistake to characterize it that way because it misses the specific purpose and history behind the Act.

The CAA is the implementation of one of the oldest pillars of the BJP's foundation - the transfer of population problem. Removal of Article 370 is a similarly old pillar, and was why Shyama Prasad Mukherjee originally split with Nehru back in 1951 and founded the Bharatiya Jana Sangh, the progenitor of BJP.

Getting back to the transfer of population problem, MKG didn't want a population transfer, and and asserted that Hindus etc in TSP, BD and elsewhere would be as safe as Muslims in India. That's patently not been true as history as shown. The CAA specifically offers a fast track to Indian citizenship for these minorities only.

The CAA does not give a fast track for 'Hindus'. Kenyan or Fijian Hindus - even though they face persecution - have no fast track through CAA any more than Pakistani Muslims do. It doesn't give a fast track to Parsis from Iran or Sikhs from Canadastan. In other words, it is NOT a religious metric. Rather, it's a very specific path to a specific subgroup left behind in a particular place from a particular period of time - The Partition of India:
Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi, and Christian religious minorities, who had fled persecution from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan before December 2014.


It is VERY important not to get sucked up into the handwaving whataboutery around Shias, Ahmediyas etc. Whether CAA 'should' help them is just posturing. The BJP made a mistake by not being clearer and more assertive about the historical baggage they have always sought to resolve - the transfer of populations one. None of the 'what about' entities have any relation at all to the transfer of population problem - neither Shias/Ahmeddiyas nor Fijian Hindus nor Iranian Parsis. It's important that here on BRF, we do not make that same mistake, and at least try to ensure that this history and rationale is well understood.

It's astounding how little the Partition is mentioned in the context of CAA even here on BRF. In fact the Partition is central to the CAA and has everything to do with it. Those not affected by the transfer of population crisis during The Partition - of ANY religion - have any privileges accorded to them through CAA.

CAA = completion of India's goal of transfer of population after partition

That's it. That is why even Christians are named in it.

There's no problem with any of what CAA does. Most countries have specific immigration fast tracks or approaches suiting particular cases of their own interest, e.g. not just a negative one like the Lautenberg Amendment, but the Cuban Adjustment Act that owes its existence to a long time US policy measure to build an anti Castro base in the US. The old Al Pacino movie 'Scarface' shows how easy it was for all kinds of Cuban dregs to get a green card to US back then, that no other Latin American country national could.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Gerard » 05 Mar 2020 02:31

Question - why the inclusion of Afghanistan, not a part of British India?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 05 Mar 2020 02:43

Afghanistan was historically seen as a British protectorate (the British controlled its foreign affairs) and the Durand Line between AfPak is a British construct that even the Pashtuns do not recognize . In effect India viewed the geographical space as a contiguous source entity for the purposes of transfer of population .

Hindus in Iran proper for example , are not within the ambit of CAA - they take the same route as a Pakistani Muslims does , like in Adnan Sami’s example . Some Hindu living in Iran 1km from the AfPak border has no privileges thru CAA, anymore than a Pakistani or BD Muslim does .


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