2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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VKumar
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby VKumar » 23 Jun 2020 23:48

Indian Customs have slowed clearance of Chinese Imports

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 23 Jun 2020 23:55

GoI should make it a treason like offense for anyone circumventing laws when importing from chinese. Whether it's customs, tax, or importing business.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 23 Jun 2020 23:59

VKumar wrote:Indian Customs have slowed clearance of Chinese Imports


Any reference / link?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:03

Suraj wrote:
chetak wrote:this entire MOU idea is quite diabolic and sinister.

Is there precedence to this elsewhere in the world.

the eyetalian probably did not sign the MOU herself because of possible complications arising because of her country of birth. :mrgreen:
from opIndia

Photograph showing Congress signing MoU with Communist Party of China

Aren't MOU's published in an official gazette or similar document ? Have the contents of this MOU ever been published ? There's no reason it should not be public, particularly at the current moment.

I would doubt that MoUs between private parties (which the Congress and the CPC would be) would be part of a public record like the Gazette. I don't see any inherent reason why the Congress-CPC MoU would be public. What is interesting is that Congress is not denying the existence of the MoU. And the BJP government isn't going after Congress for what is obviously a traitorous understanding they reached with an enemy entity.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 00:09

Yes, that's why I asked originally. If it's a private MOU, why is it's existence public, and why was it transacted without the accord of the legislature of the elected government ? I find it troubling that the current government hasn't at least spoken on it . They must openly reveal what that MOU contains. I see no reason why a then ruling political party can claim any right to privacy to transact a MOU with a foreign ruling entity in this manner. The claim "it's a private MOU" makes no sense to me - that's not a MOU between Ambani and Jack Ma who can claim it's a confidential commercial agreement.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:16

Suraj wrote:...
Do you have any further information to support that ? On what basis does an elected authority of India have the ability to enter into a private MOU with a foreign government to which its own electorate is not privy to ?

Purely my guesswork, but I would imagine that Congress Party, in itself, isn't an elected authority under law, it is more akin to a private club with Rahul Gandhi (at that time) as President. India's communist parties are (or were) routinely part of Communist International, a global organization, and probably had signed agreements with other communist parties in the world. No one even blinked at that.

There are probably laws governing foreign agents and collaborating with a hostile power and so on. And maybe, lying under oath (equivalent to US perjury laws). So, they would need to get Rahul Gandhi and his mother Antonia in front of a judicial officer who will interrogate them under oath as to the existence and nature of this MoU. And there would have to be independent confirmation of it that will stand up in a court.

But I suspect all this is a pipe dream on my part. For some weird reason that I have never been able to ascertain, the "Hindu Fascist" (or "patriotic" if that's your flavor of choice) BJP has always taken a hands-off approach to the brazen criminality and treason of the Italian daughter of a Fascist and her brood. (Maybe someone in BRF can explain that to me.)

This MoU can be a political stick with which to beat Congress in 2024, but that's about it IMO. Modi will wait for Pappu to say crazy hateful sh*t about him, and then will come out with the China thing, and Mani Shankar Aiyer will have a hissy. And Modi will win, again.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby VKumar » 24 Jun 2020 00:20

KLNMurthy wrote:
VKumar wrote:Indian Customs have slowed clearance of Chinese Imports


Any reference / link?


Read Economic Times. I don't know how to post a picture.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 00:20

I have no problem with the government waiting for an opportune time to reveal the contents of that MOU. The very concept an unpublicized MOU between two party level entities in this manner is really grating, particularly when the signatories on both sides are not the respective heads of government, but are clearly both the actual entities with power (Antonia being the one who ran the country, and Xi the then heir apparent to succeed Hu Jintao three years later). This is one of a vast number of acts of omission by the former government, that effectively ran a parallel power structure both when it came to running a NAC at home, and transacting unpublicized MOUs with others.

I agree with the need for a law for all political parties to place on the table their 'private' engagements with foreign political entities, whether INC's MOU shenanigans , or CPI* parties' workers of the world unite Comintern connections. It's definitely something that can be a 2024 election topic.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:26

Suraj wrote:Yes, that's why I asked originally. If it's a private MOU, why is it's existence public, and why was it transacted without the accord of the legislature of the elected government ? I find it troubling that the current government hasn't at least spoken on it . They must openly reveal what that MOU contains. I see no reason why a then ruling political party can claim any right to privacy to transact a MOU with a foreign ruling entity in this manner. The claim "it's a private MOU" makes no sense to me - that's not a MOU between Ambani and Jack Ma who can claim it's a confidential commercial agreement.

It was private but probably not thought of as secret or embarrassing at that time. After all, Congress was in power, and the rise of Modi and the Hindu youth online brigades wasn't expected or taken seriously. There would have been no reason to hide it.

The bigger scandal, reading between your lines, is the deliberate indifference of the government of the day. It is administrative malpractice, as well as political malpractice, the latter because they aren't weaponizing this to uproot the treasonous opposition, knowing that they will have the people on their side.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:28

Suraj wrote:I have no problem with the government waiting for an opportune time to reveal the contents of that MOU. The very concept an unpublicized MOU between two party level entities in this manner is really grating, particularly when the signatories on both sides are not the respective heads of government, but are clearly both the actual entities with power (Antonia being the one who ran the country, and Xi the then heir apparent to succeed Hu Jintao three years later). This is one of a vast number of acts of omission by the former government, that effectively ran a parallel power structure both when it came to running a NAC at home, and transacting unpublicized MOUs with others.

I agree with the need for a law for all political parties to place on the table their 'private' engagements with foreign political entities, whether INC's MOU shenanigans , or CPI* parties' workers of the world unite Comintern connections. It's definitely something that can be a 2024 election topic.

Good idea to amend the election laws. Any party having and not disclosing such an overseas understanding should automatically be disqualified across the board.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:30

VKumar wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
Any reference / link?


Read Economic Times. I don't know how to post a picture.

Oh I see you mean the physical paper version of the paper. Their website is a nightmarish jungle of popups, impossible to look for anything there. But I managed. Here is the link:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 530095.cms

But it doesn't seem related all that much to the current tensions. Reads more like the reporter is trying to make something out of nothing. I don't trust these MSM fellows.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 24 Jun 2020 00:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 00:31

KLNMurthy wrote:The bigger scandal, reading between your lines, is the deliberate indifference of the government of the day. It is administrative malpractice, as well as political malpractice, the latter because they aren't weaponizing this to uproot the treasonous opposition, knowing that they will have the people on their side.

Yes you do read this correctly. Malpractice is too weak a word. This behavior deliberately weakens institutional structure, because it accentuates what the INC has done for ages - treat its rule as a familial matter and not a quest to ensure the nation has strong institutions. The continuous maintenance of weak institutions only serves to propagate a culture of patronage across all strata of society. When you need something, it's not a question of where to go, it's whom you know.

Modi's efforts have focused on eliminating this 'whom you know' thing in favor of 'where to go' but rebuilding both the strength of institutions and changing the attitudes of people who are more familiar with 'could you please use your influence' than following procedure, takes time.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 24 Jun 2020 00:32

Unless the intelligence agencies intercept something, how does one even find out which party has signed what?

I would assume that the only reason to sign something like this would be to provide a leverage to prove constant loyalty. There's always a hanging sword to keep one in check.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:38

darshan wrote:Unless the intelligence agencies intercept something, how does one even find out which party has signed what?

I would assume that the only reason to sign something like this would be to provide a leverage to prove constant loyalty. There's always a hanging sword to keep one in check.


This apparently happened when mother-son went for the 2008 Beijing Olympics, so there would have been lots of media hangers-on who went along for the ride. Again, there would have been no reason for the woman to keep this secret, so the reporters would have known about it. And there would have been no reason for those Lutyensias to keep it secret either, so it was probably widely known in those circles. Remember, they owned the country (still do, for the most part) and had no reason to think they would ever be challenged.

The starting point would be an election commission law that would require full disclosure of all such agreements & understandings as Suraj said. The fact that we can't detect 100% of secret understandings shouldn't hinder us from laying out harsh penalties for having such secret understandings. We can creatively add whistleblower laws that establish rewards for those that reveal secret understandings etc. These kind of treasonous things are as old as human history and there are a thousand and one ways to fight them, once the choice is made to fight them.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 24 Jun 2020 00:47

I agree in notion about the sell out. Heck I think that even nehru may have signed many things.

And yes laws for all the crimes and incentives for whistle blowing should already be there. One never knows in whose lap something falls.

But if I'm the signer, why would I ever disclose it? I have probably already burnt my copy. Or why would I have even kept it till now? Now all I need to do is work on explanation about what was being signed. As long as chinese don't leak it, I have no worries.

Moving forward everyone would be cautious anyways.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 00:55

Suraj wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:The bigger scandal, reading between your lines, is the deliberate indifference of the government of the day. It is administrative malpractice, as well as political malpractice, the latter because they aren't weaponizing this to uproot the treasonous opposition, knowing that they will have the people on their side.

Yes you do read this correctly. Malpractice is too weak a word. This behavior deliberately weakens institutional structure, because it accentuates what the INC has done for ages - treat its rule as a familial matter and not a quest to ensure the nation has strong institutions. The continuous maintenance of weak institutions only serves to propagate a culture of patronage across all strata of society. When you need something, it's not a question of where to go, it's whom you know.

Modi's efforts have focused on eliminating this 'whom you know' thing in favor of 'where to go' but rebuilding both the strength of institutions and changing the attitudes of people who are more familiar with 'could you please use your influence' than following procedure, takes time.

I think I understand what Modi is doing, and agree with you. He has been brilliant at identifying or constructing administrative levers to disable the 'who-you-know' culture, and I stand second to none in my admiration of his genius in this regard.

The problem I see is the apparent lack of simultaneous attention to the identifiable living, breathing and operating physical manifestation of this culture that is still eating away at the country, to the point that it has demonstrable power to weaken and maybe even halt forever the larger, big-picture efforts that he is making. Even while your labs are developing and deploying fire-prevention protocols and processes, you have to put out the forest fire that is raging right now, threatening your own and your lab's efficacy and even existence. I don't see Modi doing, or even recognizing the latter (other than as a tool for election time), and that worries and frustrates me.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 01:00

darshan wrote:I agree in notion about the sell out. Heck I think that even nehru may have signed many things.

And yes laws for all the crimes and incentives for whistle blowing should already be there. One never knows in whose lap something falls.

But if I'm the signer, why would I ever disclose it? I have probably already burnt my copy. Or why would I have even kept it till now? Now all I need to do is work on explanation about what was being signed. As long as chinese don't leak it, I have no worries.

Moving forward everyone would be cautious anyways.

You may succeed in such a scenario, but you have to live in fear that someone close to you will rat you out. If the legitimate government has enforcement machinery that encourages and supports the ratting-out, you will never have a moment's peace, you can't trust anyone, and your operational efficiency will be severely impaired, in turn making you even more vulnerable to being taken down. All mafias live and die like this.

Ultimately, as you said, building a system like that will be a deterrent, it will cut down on such agreements and deals.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2020 01:51

Suraj wrote:
chetak wrote:
this is a private MOU and it's not subject to any gazette notification and cannot even be accessed under the RTI

Do you have any further information to support that ? On what basis does an elected authority of India have the ability to enter into a private MOU with a foreign government to which its own electorate is not privy to ?


the MOU is between the Communist Party of China (CPC) and the congress party in India.

It was not between the two governments (yes I know what you are thinking) but between two "political parties" or at least that is how it's going to play out.

At the time of signing, both xi and pappu were not "govt officials" in the accepted sense of the term.

some thought seems to have gone into the methodology of signing the MOU.

Modi will tear pappu and the congis apart in the next general elections using this MOU as proof of gaddari

the timing of the MOU signing leak is very interesting and could have only come from some clued in high ranking congi, say someone like scindia perhaps.

It looks like the hans may have something highly incriminating against the mafia family to get such an "MOU" signed so quietly.

It may also explain why the darbari MEA babuz continue to tip toe around the hans even today.
Last edited by chetak on 24 Jun 2020 02:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 02:11

Both RaGa and Winnie the Pooh were government officials in 2008. So was Antonia. Both the Gandhis were sitting MPs. Xi was made the designated successor of Hu and made Vice President back then. It doesn't make any sense to claim that only a Union Minister or MoS can be a 'government official'. They were traveling on taxpayer paid travel. IAS officers aren't allowed to privately transact with foreign government parties either. It makes no difference whether or not it was a state visit.

I'm not arguing with you here, just stating that the manner of saying 'private MOU' makes no sense, but if you keep saying it again and again, it actually sounds like something like that is a legitimate legal loophole, where there's nothing of the sort permitted. Political parties aren't private entities. They literally seek to represent the public, and aren't entitled to claim privacy.

As posted earlier, there appears no actual law in place to require all parties to place these interactions on the table, but there needs to be.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2020 02:21

Suraj wrote:Both RaGa and Winnie the Pooh were government officials in 2008. So was Antonia. Both the Gandhis were sitting MPs. Xi was made the designated successor of Hu and made Vice President back then. It doesn't make any sense to claim that only a Union Minister or MoS can be a 'government official'. They were traveling on taxpayer paid travel. IAS officers aren't allowed to privately transact with foreign government parties either. It makes no difference whether or not it was a state visit.

I'm not arguing with you here, just stating that the manner of saying 'private MOU' makes no sense, but if you keep saying it again and again, it actually sounds like something like that is a legitimate legal loophole, where there's nothing of the sort permitted. Political parties aren't private entities. They literally seek to represent the public, and aren't entitled to claim privacy.

As posted earlier, there appears no actual law in place to require all parties to place these interactions on the table, but there needs to be.


I am just playing devil's advocate and wondering how these guys are going to slime out of disclosing the true facts.

the congis are playing it very low key right now and the press is also quiet.

when the big guns like zero loss and vi@gra come out to defend the congi position, then it will confirm that all is not well.

The trio of MAD will surely not take this lying down.

As a wild guess, they may have already got hold of at least a copy of the document in question

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 02:45

KLNMurthy wrote:The problem I see is the apparent lack of simultaneous attention to the identifiable living, breathing and operating physical manifestation of this culture that is still eating away at the country, to the point that it has demonstrable power to weaken and maybe even halt forever the larger, big-picture efforts that he is making. Even while your labs are developing and deploying fire-prevention protocols and processes, you have to put out the forest fire that is raging right now, threatening your own and your lab's efficacy and even existence. I don't see Modi doing, or even recognizing the latter (other than as a tool for election time), and that worries and frustrates me.

I think he simply has too many things that need handholding to the extent that he cannot focus more broadly. One of the corollaries of the 'who you know' culture and weak institutional structure is the inability to independently execute things. Because there are no processes in place, everything works its way up to the next higher person you know. Failure to 'include people whose opinion matters' stymies all kinds of things. Indian Railways has a division building a great seni-high speed train and some factional politics takes over right away. Even on the personal front, say someone buys a home or car, and a parent or elder throws a fit about not having being consulted about the sacred hour or most auspicious brand of petrol to fill it with.

This entrenched behavior is largely a mirror to our own behavior. It's hard to be frustrated at his failure to move fast, because we see artifacts of what he faces, in our own lives everyday. He cannot succeed without the involvement of the people. Very early on, he tried to offer social guidelines like how women's upliftment also requires parents to ask their sons where they have been. But he realized people don't like being lectured to; the bigger the mandate they give him, the less they like lectures . A complete solution requires us to enable each other to understand what norms we can live and work within, and then offered the independence to act on our own accord within those broad norms.

This is going slightly OT, but I'm sure you understand what I mean here. All cultures have such flaws and the best politicians figure out how to get things done through that.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 03:00

Suraj wrote:Both RaGa and Winnie the Pooh were government officials in 2008. So was Antonia. Both the Gandhis were sitting MPs. Xi was made the designated successor of Hu and made Vice President back then. It doesn't make any sense to claim that only a Union Minister or MoS can be a 'government official'. They were traveling on taxpayer paid travel. IAS officers aren't allowed to privately transact with foreign government parties either. It makes no difference whether or not it was a state visit.

I'm not arguing with you here, just stating that the manner of saying 'private MOU' makes no sense, but if you keep saying it again and again, it actually sounds like something like that is a legitimate legal loophole, where there's nothing of the sort permitted. Political parties aren't private entities. They literally seek to represent the public, and aren't entitled to claim privacy.

TBH I have no idea of the legal rights & wrongs of the matter; since they didn't bother to hide it, I was guessing it was probably not illegal.

As posted earlier, there appears no actual law in place to require all parties to place these interactions on the table, but there needs to be.


This is the bottom line.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vishvak » 24 Jun 2020 03:24

Guess this is correct thred for below comment on another thread
Russia hasn't been a superpower in a while

Which also why we should be careful more of superpower the one and only, the new one upcoming superior han one as also be more disposed towards Russian military wares because less vulnerable directly.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2020 03:45

Suraj wrote:Both RaGa and Winnie the Pooh were government officials in 2008. So was Antonia. Both the Gandhis were sitting MPs. Xi was made the designated successor of Hu and made Vice President back then. It doesn't make any sense to claim that only a Union Minister or MoS can be a 'government official'. They were traveling on taxpayer paid travel. IAS officers aren't allowed to privately transact with foreign government parties either. It makes no difference whether or not it was a state visit.

I'm not arguing with you here, just stating that the manner of saying 'private MOU' makes no sense, but if you keep saying it again and again, it actually sounds like something like that is a legitimate legal loophole, where there's nothing of the sort permitted. Political parties aren't private entities. They literally seek to represent the public, and aren't entitled to claim privacy.

As posted earlier, there appears no actual law in place to require all parties to place these interactions on the table, but there needs to be.



xi may not have signed the MOU

some faceless cheeni guy seems to have done so along with the brainless Indian guy

so the facade of this MOU not being a govt document may be the way the congis will spin it


Image

Image

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 06:52

What's with Adhir Chowdhury anyway? When the Article 370 was done, he was braying about how Kashmir was a disputed area, supposedly Antonia was angry with him about that. Now he is singing some other song? Is he unstable or just stupid or am I missing something?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 06:55

Suraj wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:The problem I see is the apparent lack of simultaneous attention to the identifiable living, breathing and operating physical manifestation of this culture that is still eating away at the country, to the point that it has demonstrable power to weaken and maybe even halt forever the larger, big-picture efforts that he is making. Even while your labs are developing and deploying fire-prevention protocols and processes, you have to put out the forest fire that is raging right now, threatening your own and your lab's efficacy and even existence. I don't see Modi doing, or even recognizing the latter (other than as a tool for election time), and that worries and frustrates me.

I think he simply has too many things that need handholding to the extent that he cannot focus more broadly. One of the corollaries of the 'who you know' culture and weak institutional structure is the inability to independently execute things. Because there are no processes in place, everything works its way up to the next higher person you know. Failure to 'include people whose opinion matters' stymies all kinds of things. Indian Railways has a division building a great seni-high speed train and some factional politics takes over right away. Even on the personal front, say someone buys a home or car, and a parent or elder throws a fit about not having being consulted about the sacred hour or most auspicious brand of petrol to fill it with.

This entrenched behavior is largely a mirror to our own behavior. It's hard to be frustrated at his failure to move fast, because we see artifacts of what he faces, in our own lives everyday. He cannot succeed without the involvement of the people. Very early on, he tried to offer social guidelines like how women's upliftment also requires parents to ask their sons where they have been. But he realized people don't like being lectured to; the bigger the mandate they give him, the less they like lectures . A complete solution requires us to enable each other to understand what norms we can live and work within, and then offered the independence to act on our own accord within those broad norms.

This is going slightly OT, but I'm sure you understand what I mean here. All cultures have such flaws and the best politicians figure out how to get things done through that.


Maybe we need a thread "Understanding the Modi phenomenon?" There is a lot to understand IMO. For example, how is it he seems to be the only one of that caliber to emerge in this current generation of RSS-developed leaders?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 08:44

KLNMurthy wrote:Maybe we need a thread "Understanding the Modi phenomenon?" There is a lot to understand IMO. For example, how is it he seems to be the only one of that caliber to emerge in this current generation of RSS-developed leaders?

TBH, this does not appeal to me. The reason is that his phenomenon is part of his attraction, and part of the reason for the near impossibility of any national level contender. Any significant deconstruction of his phenomenon feeds into a very culturally familiar desire to have an authoritative position on something, and arguments between people wanting the irrefutable upper hand.

I readily admit I don't fully understand why he's like no other modern world leader in 2-3 generations. No one else in the past 75 years around major nations has ever won elections like he has. Nehru won when there was basically no broad polity to speak of, and he did his best to keep it that way. IG had ups and downs, and didn't really move the turnout needle much over long term average. RaGa Snr was a one hit wonder. RaGa Jnr is a moron who couldn't get himself elected class president on his own. The rest all clawed onto power by variously long nails, having gotten there by accident or circumstance.

Then you have one guy who's contested 5 elections and won 5 relative landslides. What's more, he gets turnouts that are 10 percentage points above long term average. People say it's because the young are politically active. Have cellphones, etc. But they only do such turnouts in the GE, not any other election, so that argument is not valid. It's all about the guy and I have no idea why. And I don't really want to know.

There's never been a world level leader who took the biggest landslide in a generation with the highest ever turnout in the nation's national electoral history, and in his reelection, he managed an even bigger landslide with an even bigger turnout. Nobody amongst the chatterati - BRF included - truly understands it. The man is a freak. GE2019 was comically lopsided in its result, with more than a dozen states making FPTP irrelevant due to absolute majority.

I'd much rather focus on what benefits his efforts to do his job. He works insane hours, and compels the same of others. I feel embarrassed to blame him or criticize him from the comfort of a nice chair, having slept several more hours than he's probably managed in any single day in the past 5 years. He can't possibly be able to coordinate and keep track of everything we'd like of him. So, I find I feel better if I can convey my concerns to him directly by the various channels he offers and hope it gets seen, because I have confidence that he actually carries out things that matters to him. My go to advice here has therefore been to make a cogent message out to PMOIndia .

A lot of people are clearly grateful for what he does, and he has their ear. BRF is out of touch with the masses because it has twice failed to really grok the zeitgeist of the mango person. Some people like PP managed it. But I don't think this forum's viewpoint can easily be lined up to correctly estimate the extent of Modi's phenomenon. We just manage to see it and admire it after the fact, and then go back offering dossiers of complaints :)

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 10:34

Suraj, too bad you don’t share my interest in understanding Modi the phenomenon. I don’t care about being right or spouting an authoritative theory, not least because I don’t have a clue as to what brought this guy into being.

Aside from curiosity, I would like to understand because I would hate to think that NM is simply an unexplained, and unique, freak of nature. I would feel better knowing that there is some way to reliably produce leaders that are some decent fraction as good as he is.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 24 Jun 2020 11:33

Saar, just because I'm not so interested now doesn't mean I won't readily agree with you or debate you if you take the initiative yourself :) It's just that I see myself more useful at looking at it differently. I really don't see a method to him because empirical evidence is that there is no politician in the modern representative democratic world who has his outlier level of ability to win elections .

Nobody - not Reagan, Thatcher , Kilton saab or Ombaba. Many of them won big but from effectively the same turnout as historical average, so it's simply who better got out the vote and who stayed home. Our GE long term average turnout is ~55%. GE2014 saw 66%. GE2019 saw 68%.No one before's been elected by such a significant bump in turnout. Not even Ombaba in 2008 - that was a mere 1.5% turnout increase. And no one's been re-elected by an even higher turnout. It just does not happen.

This kind of wildly off the charts statistical outlier participation of electorate that characterizes Modi's wins, I don't think it can be recreated. You can produce effective leaders who are dedicated, sure. But this kind of freak election winning capability backed by popular participation ? Go ahead, parse it and make our day :)

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby kit » 24 Jun 2020 11:50

VKumar wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
Any reference / link?


Read Economic Times. I don't know how to post a picture.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/startups/newsbuzz/slow-clearance-of-chinese-goods-may-put-etail-in-a-spot/articleshow/76541796.cms

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby nandakumar » 24 Jun 2020 11:56

darshan wrote:Looks like from now on, all one has to do is put pregnant jihadi in front.


Sympathy for The Devil? With Safoora getting uncontested bail on ‘humanitarian grounds’, Islamists win this round
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/safoora ... the-devil/

Essentially, the Modi government, citing ‘humanitarian grounds’, allowed a terrorist to walk free simply because she was pregnant. One can go on and on talking about the history of births in Tihar Jail. Or that pregnant convicts give birth to their children behind bars almost on a daily basis.

Supreme Court had clearly stated that it will not be used as a precedent.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2020 13:39

“Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).”

― Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass


Threat to India’s national security: Shady links of Congress with Chinese Communist Party and African National Congress




Threat to India’s national security: Shady links of Congress with Chinese Communist Party and African National Congress

From a national security perspective, the Indian government must investigate whether such agreements involved meddling in Indian elections by foreign elements.

22 June, 2020
Editorial Desk

Congress party allegedly funded the election campaign of African National Congress


The Congress party has acted in quite a partisan manner during the ongoing conflict with China in Ladakh. At every turn, they attempted to undermine the position of the Indian government and the situation turned so dire, that the father of one of the soldiers who was injured during the clash at Galwan valley had to come forward and beg the Congress party to not play politics at this juncture.

That did not have too much of an impact on Rahul Gandhi as he continued on his merry run of politicking. However, certain disturbing details about the Congress party have gained great attention during these troubling times. It has now come to light that the Congress party signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Chinese Communist Party.

On the 7th of August, 2008, the Congress party and the Chinese Communist Party signed a deal to ensure the exchange of high level information and cooperation between them. On behalf of the Congress party, Rahul Gandhi signed the agreement and for the CCP, it was none other than Xi Jinping who put his signature on the agreement.

The MoU provided the two parties with the “opportunity to consult each other on important bilateral, regional and international developments”. It is something that is completely unheard of and utterly bizarre. How could a political party of one country sign an agreement for cooperation and exchange of information with a political party of an enemy country?

Let alone an enemy country, such a deal between the political parties of any country would be extremely inappropriate if not downright treasonous. And worse, the conduct of Rahul Gandhi during recent conflicts between India and China have been very suspicious. For instance, his secret meeting with Chinese officials during the Doklam standoff can no longer be viewed in isolation. It has to be viewed keeping in mind that there was an MoU in place between the Congress party and China.


If it was bizarre enough that a major political party in India had an agreement in place with an autocratic regime that happens to be India’s enemy, it would be utterly inconceivable if we were told that such problematic relationships did not exist with only one country. However, as it turns, that is exactly the case as OpIndia reported recently.

Recently, Anand Sharma of the Congress party attended the launch of an ‘anti-racism campaign’ organised by the African National Congress (ANC), the governing party in South Africa. From the coverage of the event, it was quite obvious that the matter at hand was more internal rather than a global alliance against racism. The campaign was also criticised in South African media itself.

During his address, Anand Sharma went so far as to call the ANC a fraternal party of the Indian National Congress. He also called for Indians to stand up for justice and human rights, which was a bit perplexing considering the fact that the campaign was launched in light of the death of George Floyd at the hands of the Police in the US of A.

The Congress party could not escape by saying that Anand Sharma attended the event in his individual capacity as he repeatedly invoked the INC during his address. However, there is a more significant reason why the Congress cannot do so. As it turns out, the Congress party had also signed an MoU with the ANC.

And the buck does not stop there. The Congress party was also accused of funding the ANC’s election campaign as far back as in 2009. Among others accused of the same was the Chinese Communist Party. It is pertinent to note that these allegations were made merely a year after the Congress party signed MoUs with both, the CCP and the ANC.

Thus, one is forced to ask here, what was the precise agreement that was signed between INC and ANC? And if the allegations of INC helping the ANC with money for campaigning are true, did the MoU involve pledging support for the party during elections in South Africa? And if the answers are in the affirmative, as it could very well be, is the MoU that was signed between the Congress party and CCP of a similar nature? Such questions have to be answered.

There are other problematic aspects to the affair as well. For instance, when Prime Minister Modi visited South Africa in 2016, a large portion of the ANC and several Islamic organisations had protested against his visit. Were these protests with the obvious support of certain factions within the INC a return on investment the Indian National Congress had made earlier? It cannot be ruled out.

It is also pertinent to note that the Congress party was not involved in such shady dealings with only the ANC and the CCP. During the UPA regime, there were literally individuals associated with foreign funded NGOs, who as part of the extra-constitutional National Advisory Council, were drafting laws for India.

One NAC member was Harsh Mander whose links with the Italian Secret Service have been exposed by OpIndia recently. The same person is also closely associated with George Soros, who declared a war upon nationalism and nationalists, including Prime Minister Modi. Others in NAC included individuals associated with dubious organisations such as Oxfam.

Harsh Mander is not the only individual linked to the Congress party who is closely associated with George Soros. Shivshankar Menon, who served as the National Security Advisor (NSA) of India from January 2010 to May 2014 under Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, currently sits on the Board of Trustees of Crisis Group along with George Soros.


Thus, we see that the Congress party has a history of associating itself not only with individuals linked to dubious foreign agents but also with the political entities of other countries vying for political power. It is quite unprecedented. It begs the question, what purpose does it serve the Congress party in signing an MoU with the ANC and the CCP?

Furthermore, the only loyalty that any Indian political party should feel is towards Indian citizens. Can Indians trust a party to place their interests above all else when the Congress party goes around signing MoUs with the CCP and other political parties around the world? Can Indians be certain that the Congress party will prioritise the interests of its citizens over the its obligations to the CCP and other foreign entities?

From a national security perspective, the Indian government must investigate whether such agreements involved meddling in Indian elections by foreign elements. These are questions that the Congress party will struggle to answer in the coming days. And as unfortunate as it may appear, the Congress party could very well have undermined national sovereignty in the past and might do so again in the future.


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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby banrjeer » 24 Jun 2020 13:45

Boycott is. mostly symbolic.

exports to china are a significant chunk of India's exports.
chinas exports to India are a fraction of its overall exports.

Thats what will matter more than Chinas trade surplus.

India needs to grow its export market with the help of Taiwan and others to get away from this state.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2020 14:39

banrjeer wrote:Boycott is. mostly symbolic.

exports to china are a significant chunk of India's exports.
chinas exports to India are a fraction of its overall exports.

Thats what will matter more than Chinas trade surplus.

India needs to grow its export market with the help of Taiwan and others to get away from this state.



Taiwanese Delegation Seeks Karnataka Govt's Permission To Build Industrial Township Near Tumakuru

Taiwanese Delegation Seeks Karnataka Govt's Permission To Build Industrial Township Near Tumakuru

Swarajya Staff
Jun 24, 2020


A high-level Taiwanese delegation has called on Karnataka Government for permission to build a Taiwanese industrial township in the state near the city of Tumakuru, reports Economic Times.

The delegation which was led by the executive director of the Economic Division of the Taipei Economic and Cultural Centre (TECC) Jashon Hsu met with state's Deputy Chief Minister (Dy CM) Ashwath Narayan to discuss the project.

The Taiwanese wish to build the township on the lines of a similar Japanese township which is coming up in Tumakuru, just about an hour's drive from the state's capital city of Bengaluru.

Assuring support on the project, Dy CM Narayan told the delegation that he will speak to State's Industries Minister Jagadish Shettar soon to see that the development of the project is taken up by Karnataka Industrial Area Development Board (KIADB).

Apart from this, Dy CM Narayan also called on the Taiwanese counterparts to set up a Taiwan Economic & Cultural Centre in Bengaluru.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2020 15:45

karma bites niazi's naya pukistan right in the jehadi butt.


Reduce high commission staff by half within 7 days: India to Pakistan


23 JUN 2020,

India on Tuesday asked Pakistan to reduce its staff in its high commission here by half within the next seven days and announced a reciprocal trimming of Indian strength in Islamabad, in a significant downgrading of diplomatic ties. The Ministry of External Affairs said the Charge d' Affaires of Pakistan High Commission was summoned and informed about the decision which was based on instances of alleged involvement of Pakistani officials in "acts of espionage" and dealings with terrorist organisations.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 24 Jun 2020 16:45

Why Rahul Gandhi signed ‘rare pact’ with Chinese Communist Party?
    19-Jun-2020
  
G Sreedathan

Wondered why the Congress has been taking a pro-Chinese stance? On August 7, 2008, then Congress General Secretary Rahul Gandhi signed a rare and crucial memorandum of understanding with the Chinese Communist Party “promote exchanges at various levels”.
 
Recently, Congress Leader of Opposition in the Lok Sabha Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury was forced to delete his tweet against China in which he had warned Beijing to be careful as the Indian Army knows how to defang the venomous snakes. It is said that Chowdhury was told by a Congress leader in plain words: “Madam is angry with the tweet. Delete it.” After Chowdhury deleted the tweet, Rajya Sabha MP Anand Sharma, tweeted: “The Indian National Congress recognises and values the special strategic partnership between India and China. As two ancient civilisations and large economies of the world, both countries are destined to make a significant contribution in the 21st Century.”
 
Wondered why the Congress has been taking a pro-Chinese stance? On August 7, 2008, then Congress General Secretary Rahul Gandhi signed a rare and crucial memorandum of understanding with the Chinese Communist Party “promote exchanges at various levels”. Rahul Gandhi had signed the MoU with Wang Jia Rui, Minister in the international department of the CPC in the presence of Sonia Gandhi and then Chinese Vice-President Xi Jinping at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing. Congress leader Anand Sharma was also part of the Indian delegation.
 
Sonia Gandhi met Xi for 30 minutes in which she praised the Chinese for their “organising genius”. Rahul was also present at this meeting. It is not clear why a political party like Congress should have “close linkages” with a political party of another country.
 
The Congress continues to share close tie-up with the Chinese government. In July 2017, when China and India were locked in a standoff in the Doklam area, Rahul Gandhi had secretly met Chinese Ambassador Luo Zhaohui. Initially, the party and the Chinese envoy denied having met. Under pressure from media and public, the Congress spokesperson RandeepSurjewalasaid Rahul met the ambassador. Interestingly, before admitting, Surjewala who accompanied Rahul had himself tweeted saying that the news of Rahul meeting Zhaohui was “planted” by government agencies through “bhakt channels”.
 
Shockingly, the Chinese Embassy website, which first confirmed the meeting later deleted it.
 
The Congress during Indira Gandhi’s time had similar close ties with the Russian Communist Party. A 2005 book based on the files by intelligence historian Christopher Andrew claimed that India during Indira Gandhi’s tenure as prime minister had been infiltrated at several levels by the KGB. The Russians funded the Congress party to win elections.
 
Impact of China-Cong pact
 
US journalist Joshua Philipp explains how ‘China strangles a country with its own systems’. In an interview, he says, “The Chinese Communist Party has a saying – when it comes to their psychological warfare and other forms of subversions – strangle you with your own systems. In other words, observing how different countries operate; what is controversial within their systems?; How does their system function?; How can we use these systems to twist things around, to cause chaos; to mess things up; to use it against them? You say you believe in free speech. We will have protests in your own backyard calling you out. You say you believe in free press? Well, we will start up state-run in your country and we will run those state-run media to lie to your population to spread your propaganda. That’s what they do.”
 
Ever since Congress lost the general election in 2014, the party has been supporting several subversionary activities in the country. The party took up causes that were dear to Maoists, jihadis and Urban Naxal elements. Congress was in the forefront supporting the ‘Tukde-Tukde gang’ in JNU and other campuses. Several grassroots Congress leaders had complained that the party had outsourced its election campaign to questionable NGOs and anarchists. In many places, such elements filled key party positions edging out committed party workers.
 
ThePrint.in had reported (on November 24, 2018), how China rolled out the red carpet to journalists drawn from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and some African countries to build a narrative in its favour in respective countries. Even in the current standoff also, many journalists were found to be siding with China and helping its psychological warfare against India.
 
CCP ties with Indian and Nepali Communists parties
 
The Chinese Communist Party accorded top priority to its engagement with Indian Left parties, according to CPI(M) General Secretary Sitaram Yechury. Similarly, Nepali Communist parties have fraternal ties with the Chinese Communists. On September 24, 2019, the ruling communist parties of Nepal signed a memorandum of understanding with the Chinese Communist Party to establish close relations between the two parties. The MoU mentions high-level visits between the two parties, sharing communist ideology, experiences and training, and sharing development models. Many observers say, Nepali Prime Minister K P Sharma Oli is a pawn in the hands of the Chinese ambassador in Nepal.
 
 (The writer is the Editor-in-Chief of Indusscrolls.com)


https://www.organiser.org/Encyc/2020/6/ ... MwGicfSRMA

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 24 Jun 2020 17:22

Did WikiLeaks have any mention of these MoUs?

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vishvak » 24 Jun 2020 17:42

strangle you with your own systems. In other words, observing how different countries operate; what is controversial within their systems?

Well when the Dalai Lama said that next Dalai Lama may not be Tibetan origin ie may have Indian side, the GoI could have requested, at least insisted, that genuine seekers from Tibet can have more opportunities to study Tibetans culture , and such, within India first of all. Meaning increasing options for the Dalai Lama.

Instead we are stuck with China shenanigans within and without. Some minority is 'minority' still after 70+years of independence and hefty in numbers. Wonder whether christians have thrown the hat in 'minority' ring and such just to muddle since after GoI the Christian religious establishment is biggest owner of land with educational institutions for example and also a 'minority'.
Apart from this, Dy CM Narayan also called on the Taiwanese counterparts to set up a Taiwan Economic & Cultural Centre in Bengaluru.

What is Taiwan culture center. Why not Japanese culture center as exclusive phoren ka cultural activities.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 24 Jun 2020 18:27

I'm wondering if there needs to be focus on handling situations like this by modifying building codes, renewed focus on fire fighting, etc. Things like this should not need to have HM involved.



Massive fire in Sanand based Unicharm factory unit; entire plant gutted, no casualties reported
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2020/06/24/ ... -reported/
Dastoor said, ‘entire 400 meter by 400 meter plant has been caught in fire. We are trying to save compressors that can blast and fly in the air. 27 fire tenders are from AMC and others from private companies. In total 32 fire vehicles are on the task. When we entered the scene, the entire plant was caught in fire. There’s a shortage of water here. Fire is so massive that another 50 vehicles would require to douse it. Fire dousing job may continue in the evening.’

Unicharm Corporation is a Japanese company that manufactures disposable hygiene products, household cleaning products, specializing in the manufacture of diapers for both babies and adult incontinence, feminine hygiene products and pet care products.

The company has operations in 80 countries.

Union Home Minister Shri Amit Shah has personally reviewed the situation of fire incident which took place in Unicharm company at Sanand and directed NDRF to rush immediately and start rescue work there, said District Collector of Ahmedabad today.

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 24 Jun 2020 18:31

SC lawyer files petition demanding NIA probe against Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi over the 2008 MoU between Congress and the Communist Party of China
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/sc-peti ... -standoff/
A petition has been filed in the Supreme Court against Congress interim president Sonia Gandhi, Gandhi-scion Rahul Gandhi and some other Congress leaders seeking a National Investigative Agency (NIA) or Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) probe to their alleged links with the Communist Party of China.

According to the reports, the lawyers who have filed the petition in the apex court has asked for an investigation into the details of the MoU signed between the Congress party and the Communist Party of China in 2008 during the UPA era.


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