Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

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Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jan 2020 00:15

Pls to b patient I will delete these once jaab is done. Trying to collect and refine info to counter the worldwide assault on India re: 3-Tlaq, JKL, CAA, NPR, NRC and on to rejerbashuns.

Starting resources. Triggered by need to respond to a "resolution" at the Seattle City Council (!!!!!) Condomming India for NRC. By usual quarters, cap, beard, hijab and all.

1. Gazette Notification on CAA (not attaching here, see link posted by Sachin at the Strategic 2020 dhaga which has become unmanageably intermxed: but provides a nice place to see the totality of the issues and attacks.

2. Funding sources of anti-CAA :((

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ion/545446

3. And the Supreme Court pointing to the plot to destabilize India, specifically pointing to "what is happening" in the Northeast:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 578623.cms

4. Article from Business Today, explaining CAA/NRC: {***NOT*** complimenting or defending NRC, but pointing out the real teeth in it.}
https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 92474.html

5. And finally, since Seattle is a Welcoming City, the Lautenberg Amendment which is part of US Law: (PromillaBibi supported it....)
https://www.hias.org/lautenberg-amendment


Is my understanding correct on "Y R they attacking NRC"? Below:

1. The Business article on NRC is not complimentary of the govt: it points to the teeth in the NRC. Like Detention Camps and Deportation.

2. NRC in isolation is nothing but a Register of Citizens. US has voter's rolls, and one has to PROVE citizenship. So what is the big deal?
3. Also, India has AADHAR so why is NRC needed?
4. Because AADHAR pretty-much presumes that if one is resident, one gets AADHAR. Then AADHAR is used to vote.

5. Now NRC says: PROVE that you are actually a citizen, with records.

6. What is so bad? What is bad from terrorist point of view is that it is preceded by CAA.

7. Because when illegal residents are asked about documents for the NRC, they will automatically claim to be refugees/children of refugees.
Which is where CAA poses a protection for REAL refugees.

8. The big deal is that in NE India, and now over much of India (e.g. Kerala) there are really massive numbers of illegal residents.

9. Many of those do pose security threats as they do not accept the Indian Constitution, let alone the freedom of other communities.

10. So if India does not act on NRC, in short order, AADHAR-carrying bigots will outnumber real citizens at the voting booth. End of India, rise of the Calphate-e-South Asia.

11. Hence it is an existential threat for India that India is countering using CAA and NRC.

12. Which is why the jehadist crocodiles in Seattle are weeping.


This is a short interview where the CAA is discussed from a legal and constitutional perspective and some misconceptions about it are cleared up.


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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jan 2020 05:08

Gee! 97 views and no disagreement? Is Demonocracy dead? Where can I find data on the above points (or other points that I have missed)?
1. Number of refugees flowing into India over the decades.
2. Number of One Community illegal immigrants in India, through the decades.
3. Distribution by geography.
4. % of One Community by State.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby kit » 28 Jan 2020 05:23

Well , either you clean the house of pests esp rodents using the traps , the cockroaches using poison but as you know some cockroaches can adapt to it using "foreign aid ", now nobody hopefully wants to burn the house along with the cockroaches that climb out of the woodwork once poison takes effect. It's just enough to give it some time. This will also show where the " foreign aid" is coming in, most likely through sewage system under the house which was constructed god knows what time, a new sewage system could help... but all is well that ends well. The people in the house should understand it is not the end of the world just becos some of the cockroaches are flying as well...admittedly it can be a bit terrifying for newbies....

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Shanmukh » 28 Jan 2020 05:25

Number of refugees who have come into India since 1971 - Calculated here by Saswati Sarkar, Dikgaj and yours truly.

https://sringeribelur.wordpress.com/the ... ghanistan/

Number of illegal migrants of the `community that must not be named' in Assam and Bengal since 1971, also calculated by Saswati Sarkar, Dikgaj and yours truly.

https://sringeribelur.wordpress.com/the ... india-nrc/

The problem is that in other states, especially outside Bihar and Jharkhand, illegal migrants of `the community that must not be named' are mostly in cities where the growth is very inorganic. Consequently, it is very hard to obtain a good estimate of the number of illegal migrants. The only way would be to get hold of the NPR and work from there, locality by locality, in the big cities. But the overall number of illegal migrants of `the community that must not be named' is ~2 crores, when taken from 1951.
Last edited by Shanmukh on 28 Jan 2020 05:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby kit » 28 Jan 2020 05:27

UB, the thread is timely , this one should hold all the foreign aid sources..afterall our jihadi s domestic and foreign need to be paid !!!.. The dead fish man has allocated one billion apparently.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jan 2020 08:50

Thx. Crossposting a lot from the 2020 Strategic thread.
George Soros' flunkies in India

Soros’s Open Society Foundation (OSF)
Human Rights Law Network (HRLN)
French NGO Sherpa

Some of the efforts HRLN has been involved in include the campaign against ISKCON’s Akshaya Patra, a campaign against Indian sedition laws, and it has been providing free legal aid to Rohingya Muslims in India. It has also been engaging in activism for the implementation of the RTE Act that works against Hindu-run institutions. Furthermore, it is also linked to a plethora of organizations across the country that seeks to undermine India’s territorial integrity.

Members of the Right to Food Campaign (RFC), an organization HRLN is linked to, were also involved in the protest against then CJI Ranjan Gogoi that sought to undermine the legitimacy of the Indian Judiciary.

The French NGO Sherpa that filed a complaint against the Rafale Deal in France is also partners with George Soros’s Open Society. The complaint was also used by malcontents in India to pursue their agenda against Narendra Modi during the run-up to the General Elections last year.

In some cases, the connection is obvious but in others, they aren’t as much. The connections are often covered under layers that one has to peel off. For instance, there is the Centre for Policy Research (CPR) that is partners with Namati Inc. and receives huge funds from it. Namati Inc. receives funds from OSF and has George Soros in its Advisory Council. There is likely a horde of such NGOs in India. Namati itself works for ‘environmental justice‘ in India.
A Cultivated Class of Intellectuals

George Soros, through his network of NGOs, has connections with a cultivated class of intellectuals who work resolutely towards opposing the Modi government. There are some prominent names with extensive links to George Soros but it is extremely unlikely that these connections will surprise anyone. Some of the most prominent among them are Harsh Mander, Indira Jaising and Amartya Sen.

Harsh Mander is the Chairman of the OSF’s Human Rights Initiative Advisory Board. His antics against the government do not need much elaboration. During the recent spate of violence after the passage of the Citizenship Amendment Act, Harsh Mander with his organization ‘Karwaan-e-Mohabbat’ published a report on the violence at the Aligarh Muslim University that absolved the students of all sins and peddled numerous lies against the Uttar Pradesh Police. Later, of course, the entire report turned out to be a massive fraud.

Adrian Arena: Advisory Board Member
Holly Cartner: Advisory Board Chair
Theresia Degener: Advisory Board Member
Alix Dunn: Advisory Board Member
Maina Kiai: Advisory Board Member
Harsh Mander: Advisory Board Chair
Yasmin Sooka: Advisory Board Member
Oscar Vilhelna Vieria: Advisory Board Member

NGO Namati (Amartya Sen is a Board Member)

Pratap Bhanu Mehta: Board of Directors of Namati.
30 major news organizations had links to George Soros. Incl. WaPO

there was a great effort by the Huffington Post to delegitimize the results of the 2019 Indian Lok Sabha Elections. In a series of reports, HuffPo published a series of distortions and lies to target Electoral Bonds. One of the fundamental claims by HuffPo was based on a claim made by the Association of Democratic Reforms (ADR), an NGO that receives extensive funds from foreign institutions and organizations. One of them is HIVOS, an organization intricately linked to George Soros’ Open Society.

In a stunning revelation, the Enforcement Directorate has claimed that the Islamic radicals of Popular Front of India(PFI) are behind the funding of the violent anti-CAA protests across several parts of the country that ensued following the passage of the Citizenship Amendment Act

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jan 2020 16:54

VP slaps Oiseules-d/eu

But the thing that caught my eye was their kilt-shivering:

“way citizenship will be determined in India and is set to create the largest statelessness crisis in the world and cause immense human suffering.”


Ah! They are concerned that their record for "largest in the world" after all that hard work in Iraq, Libya and Syria might be usurped :((

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jan 2020 16:58

VP slaps Oiseules-d/eu
"No Scope for outside interference": : India tells Europe to mind its own business as MEPs consider anti-citizenship law resolutions

Vice President Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu dismissed all attempts by foreign powers to lecture New Delhi on its own internal policy at an event on Monday. Calling such efforts “totally uncalled for and unwarranted,” Naidu said that misconceptions about the bill are rooted in “inadequate knowledge and insufficient understanding” of the law.

Naidu said that many in the West had not given the nascent democracy much of a chance back in 1947, when India gained independence from Britain, adding that the Indian nation has proved the sceptics wrong.

"While we are capable of addressing our internal matters as evidenced over the last 70 years, let others do so in their respective domains"

In an apparent swipe at critics of the way the PM Narendra Modi’s government has handled the mass protests that gripped the country after the citizenship amendment law (CAA) was passed in December, Naidu said that there is enough “space” within the Indian democracy for “expressing differences and dissents whenever warranted.”


But the thing that caught my eye was their kilt-shivering:

“way citizenship will be determined in India and is set to create the largest statelessness crisis in the world and cause immense human suffering.”


Ah! They are concerned that their record for "largest in the world" after all that hard work in Iraq, Libya and Syria might be usurped :((

Cross-posting from sachin at the 2020Strat (2S) thread:


Sachin wrote:
madhu wrote:Even in shaheen bagh, they tried to call some Kashmiri pandits( though they were still left still they tried a narrative) they have taged along chandrashaker azad to woo SC/ST.. So i feel they are doing all to state/fool hindus. I am sure many hindus will fall for such crap.

The bolded part is the only the aspect which GoI and pro-Hindu organisations needs to be wary off. The common man out there have clearly identified gimmicks like hoisting national flag in mosques or saying the pledge in church etc are just acts to "prove secularism". And when they did these things, it actually proved that till CAA these folks were NOT interested in doing the same. But yes, there is a game plan to come up with a Muslims & Dalits narrative, and this needs to be countered. From what I see, there is a visible panic among the Muslim community leadership (!?) that their clout in "secular" governments is now becoming history. Rather than feeling marginalised, it is their worry that their old Mughal-E-Azam days are now going away.

Rsatchi wrote:ust wondering if all this protest/funding the protest is to prevent the Lok Sabha passing UCC or BJP dare not list the UCC

Looks like on CAA they have given up, and just hoping that the Supreme Court may ask for changes in the Act. But the main cause of worry is NPR & NRC which would actually bring out the head count, religion & caste wise. So when minority communities turn out to be 20% or 30% of the population the next question would be are they really the minorities. This organised rioting and protest is basically to stop GoI from taking any further steps to get the head count of the population. UCC is also a worry for the "seculars" but looks like the head counting is the immediate danger :D.

chetak wrote:Link for those wishing to read the six resolutions on India being taken up this week by the EU Parliament.

EU executive wing distances itself from draft resolutions moved against India's CAA in European Parliament. This report is from Deccan Herald a very "secular" news paper in KA. So even they have doubts on how much effect these silly moves at EU will have. The EU 'threat' is just a gimmick from Indian media to try convince people that every 'democratic modern' (!?) nation is against India on CAA. Only gullible English speaking middle class would fall in this trap.


Mean while....
Why women outnumber men in anti-CAA protests. Deccan Herald continues to beat a dead horse. Most likely men folks from the protestors have decided to carry on with their business, and asked the women folk to join the protests. At least in Bengaluru city, there is not even an iota of difference these protests make. People have other things to do.

Applicants may have to show proof for citizenship under Citizenship Amendment Act. The tone of the title kind of says that even with CAA it would be tough to claim citizenship. This is when GoI has still not finalised the CAA related Rules.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 05:01

Pooch to the experts: How does one counter the :(( that the NRC will lead to a huge Stateless Person crisis? What is the end-game after filling the Detention Camps? Will BD/Pak accept these people back? Of course Gelf, KSA etc do this and worse without batting an eyelid to workers.

But for India, deporting families with kids who have grown up in India, will be terribly traumatic. Surely desh will end up giving Dreamer citjenship to all who are born in desh.

OTOH,OT I know, but I draw attention to the plight of the tea/rubber estate workers of Sri Lanka, erstwhile Ceylon. These were people "brought" to Ceylon by British plantation owners to do the work because the stereotype was that the native Sinhala workers had little need to exert themselves, and hence would not put up with the harsh life of the tea-plucker/ rubber harvester.

BUT Ceylon refused to grant them citizenship or even consider them to be permanent residents. They had no vote, so they were "Stateless". Indian govt attitude towards them was (and I say this with deep feeling) biss-boor: most of the "High" Commishun desi Baboon are probably now plucking tea leaves in 120 deg. heat and continuous acid rain with 50-kilo baskets hung from their heads in Houristan, under 1000-year sentence. Well-deserved.

I was brought up in those nbds. I mean a town surrounded by tea and rubber estates, 2000 ft altitude. Heaven, not Houristan, climate-wise. But saw the plight of the stateless workers first-hand: my Father used to spend his spare time much better than I do: he used to write various Applications and other documents for these poor and illiterate people, as a pro bono volunteer, usually when requested by the Ceylon Workers Congress. From my vantage point behind the curtain, I have participated like Fly-ul-Wall in many a deep discussion involving some of Ceylon's best netas. And learned the dirt.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Dileep » 29 Jan 2020 07:13

We can't deport anyone who had been here for more than a few years. It simply isn't done. It simply isn't dharma. Yes, that is the undoing of us yindoos, but what to do onlee? We are like this onlee!! The public outrage will be indefensible.

The way I look at it is, we can only 'plug the hole' and prevent future illegal entry. Whoever is here for 'a few years' will have to be accommodated.
Here is what I consider that would work:

1. Declare amnesty for everyone who had been here for 20 years or more. If you had any official document that shows you lived here in 2000, you are in.
2. Give OCI like special status to those who can show that they were here between 11 to 20 years.
3. Give work visa to those who had been here between 6 to 11 years. May require 'sponsorship' by a citizen. Let these brotestors adopt a few, and be responsible for his good conduct. Let us see how fast they will run away!!

Detain the rest, and sort out as matters develop. This will be a feeble number onlee.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 07:19

Do the Arnab Test. Detain the buggers, then conduct a march led by Praveen Togadia etc outside the wire. Those who cannot resist the temptation to be abusive, get loaded into buses and dumped into BD/Pak. Others get admitted and released.

But you see, arresting ppl and putting them in Detention Centers is a lose-lose situation. Halahala Choice. Can't release them, can't deport them, can't kill them.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Jan 2020 08:10

One of the best counters to this whole outrage had come from Subuhi Khan, a professor at Aligarh Muslim University no less.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Karthik S » 29 Jan 2020 10:30

Dileep wrote:We can't deport anyone who had been here for more than a few years. It simply isn't done. It simply isn't dharma. Yes, that is the undoing of us yindoos, but what to do onlee? We are like this onlee!! The public outrage will be indefensible.


Easy for you to live in the land of milk and honey, enjoying your steaks, while asking people in India to accommodate 2 crore BD Ms. Ofcourse, it's very easy for you to say isn't it? you won't be losing anything by that.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Dileep » 29 Jan 2020 12:10

As a matter of fact, I live in the land of kappa and mulaku chammanthy (and occasional porotta and beef fry) onlee. I left the steak land more than a decade ago.

The 2 Cr BD Ms had been already living with us. Many of them for very long periods. You are alluding like we are going to bring in 2Cr BD Ms into the country. That is not the case. They are here. That is reality.

One should be smoking the best stuff Idukki hills can grow to think that any country can deport 2 Cr people. Even just 200 people would be a tough call. Not even the mighty orangutan could possibly do it. The only guy who can possibly try would be Kim Round One. Even Herr Eleven Mustache could only kill people, not deport them.

So, the only solution would be to integrate them. Nothing else is workable. That is reality.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Karthik S » 29 Jan 2020 12:52

OK. Saw a mallu news in keralakaumudi.com that illegal BDs are entering KL from across the country, enjoy your kappa and mulaku chammanthy and other things with them. Just be safe while you are at it.

Admin Note: you already had 2 warnings. Cool off for a few days

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Primus » 29 Jan 2020 18:01

Great topic.

I believe the first thing to do would be to collect and collate the 'facts' as they are.

CAA: The act is actually less than one page long (the meat of it) and only states three things:
1. The act only applies to minorities who were already in India prior to 2014 - new arrivals will still need to wait it out.
2. It effectively reduces their LOS from 11 yrs to 5 yrs for eligibility.
3. It does not apply to the tribal areas of the NE states.

Here is the pdf of the act itself

The Lautenberg Amendment:

Is a potent counter argument and this needs to be hammered home every time. There is a Specter Amendment which took place in 1994 that allowed such minorities from Iran to be included for up until then the Lautenberg Amendment only applied to the Former Soviet Union.

There is an updated report on it from 2018 here.

The Act needs to be approved every year and is not a permanent feature of the constitution. Of course there are articles from the usual Liberandus in the press protesting this but you don't see hordes of Peacefools and Liberals burning buses, breaking law and order down in protest anywhere in the US on this issue.

Identification and detention/deportation of illegals is the norm in any country, except it is not enforced with the same gusto universally. Try talking to the Hispanic dudes at your local Dunkin' Donut parking lot. They don't agitate and block civic activity because they know, regardless of anything else, they are breaking the law by just being here.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 18:27

poof wrote:
pff wrote:(poof!)

BRF Darwin Award+400 January 2020 for that, Hearty Congratulations to "poof"ji! Didn't know Andaman/Nicobar was "land of milk and honey". :rotfl:
Ooops! Didn't see what followed. :shock: Now I may win the Darwin Award

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 18:39

Primusji: Thx for the good links and points.
Also, an important difference is that **UNTIL** the donkeystanis lost power and turned it into an anti-Orangeoutan thing, the Mynawrities in the US were far more anti-immigration, let alone anti-ILLEGAL immigration than the Majawrities. They saw the immigrants as bring down their wages and taking away THEIR jobs, and perhaps subjecting all of them to profiling, stereotyping etc.

In India I do not see this: the momeen seem united in welcoming more momeen. Is this true? If so it is utterly dangerous. Trouble is there is no economic discrimination AFAIK based on lack of papers since (a) most people may not carry any papers and (b) (I don't know this: do illegals manage to get AADHAR?)

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Karan M » 29 Jan 2020 18:41

Timely thread UBCN.

Folks please cooperate, assist the intent of the thread, and don't get caught up in squabbling.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 19:01

Non-violent (paid) protest, best Indian tradition:

Lawmakers heckle governor in India's Kerala regional parliament in protest against citizenship law (VIDEO)
29 Jan, 2020 09:14 / Updated 3 hours ago
White-clad lawmakers from the bloc United Democratic Front (UDF) {Congis. not Commus} blocked Governor Arif Mohammed Khan's approach to the podium on Wednesday morning. They held placards with anti-CAA slogans and demands for Khan to be recalled, as the governor waited patiently for his way to be cleared. Khan managed get to the podium with the help of parliament marshals. The heckling MPs then walked out when the governor began his speech, and staged a sit-in outside the parliament building.
{Dang! where is the Monsoon when it is needed, hain?}
The Indian government says the law was adopted as a strictly humanitarian measure, aimed at fast-tracking naturalization for disadvantaged minorities. Authorities said that it is not detrimental to anyone, and that Muslims, as with any other foreigners, can still acquire citizenship through the usual procedures.


Small pooch: pls watch the video. How did the band music come to be in the background? The Congis can actually play a well-organized band, or they allow that inside the MLA-Mahal to wake up the Honnorabal MLAs at voting time? It doesn't sound like something RT.com would add but I could be wrong.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 19:12

Meanwhile..the limits on "protest":
Air India
@airindiain
20h
#FlyAI: In view of the incident onboard @IndiGo6E
, Air India wishes to inform that conduct of Person concerned is unacceptable.With a view to discourage such behavior onboard flts, Mr Kunal Kamra is suspended from flying on any Air India flt until further notice. @HardeepSPuri

SpiceJet
@flyspicejet 7h
SpiceJet has decided to suspend Mr. Kunal Kamra from flying with the airline till further notice.

GoAir
@goairlinesindia
GoAir has suspended Mr. Kunal Kamra from flying with the airline till further notice @MoCA_GoI

As a pilot who’s done & certified in the DGCA-required 6-day AVSEC aviation security course, I can tell you that heckling &/or verbal abuse on a flight is among the four levels of disruptive behaviour that can lead to arrest &/or being put on a no-fly list.
Just so you know

Hilarious twitter thread
Apparently Air Vistara is holding firm so far...

.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby madhu » 29 Jan 2020 22:24

madhu wrote:Grant of LTV to male Muslim Community members from Kerala

Following class of persons have been exempted from the provisions of rule 3 of the Passport
(Entry into India) Rules, 1950 by Notification S.O. No.1115 (E) dated 15.5.2010 issued by the
Central Government:-
“Male Muslim community member being originally Indian citizen went to Pakistan after partition
leaving behind family in India and returned back to India and settled in the State of Kerala on a
valid passport issued by the Government of Pakistan which has either been expired or lost and –
(i) such person has gone to Pakistan between the period of 15th August 1947 and 31st December
1965; (ii) such person should not have married while in Pakistan; (iii) such person should not have acquired any immovable property in Pakistan; (iv) such person, while going to Pakistan,
should have left behind family members who are Indian citizens; (v) such person should have no
intention whatsoever of returning to Pakistan; (vi) such person should have any adverse report
from the police and security agencies.
State Governments / UT Administrations may consider cases for extension of the LTV of such
persons covered under the Notification S.O. no. 1115(E) dated 15.5.2010 under their delegated
powers without insisting on validity of passports.

WTF is this? just can believe

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Jan 2020 02:26

Experts: NRC in Assom etc. specified March 24, 1971 as cutoff date for presence in India. Why March 24, 1971? Until Dec 17, Pak Army was in E.Pak, and genociding Hindus. So I would expect Dec. 17, 1971 as a cutoff date. In fact March until Dec. must have been HEAVY influx of Hindu refugees because the genocide was at its most intense. Please provide gyan. Maybe this is a weak-kneed concession to "sons of the soil" mobs? Also, why is NE exempted from present CAA (cutoff date of 2014)?

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby KLNMurthy » 30 Jan 2020 05:31

Dileep wrote:We can't deport anyone who had been here for more than a few years. It simply isn't done. It simply isn't dharma. Yes, that is the undoing of us yindoos, but what to do onlee? We are like this onlee!! The public outrage will be indefensible.

The way I look at it is, we can only 'plug the hole' and prevent future illegal entry. Whoever is here for 'a few years' will have to be accommodated.
Here is what I consider that would work:

1. Declare amnesty for everyone who had been here for 20 years or more. If you had any official document that shows you lived here in 2000, you are in.
2. Give OCI like special status to those who can show that they were here between 11 to 20 years.
3. Give work visa to those who had been here between 6 to 11 years. May require 'sponsorship' by a citizen. Let these brotestors adopt a few, and be responsible for his good conduct. Let us see how fast they will run away!!

Detain the rest, and sort out as matters develop. This will be a feeble number onlee.

I know this is not exactly the right thread, but are deportation/internment/unconditional citizenship the only choices?

How about an interim or probationary citizenship in which they agree to undergo indoctrination in living with dharmic people and to be monitored for an indeterminate period, maintaining a dharmic credit score, probation being ended after periodic review & approval by dharmic jury?

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Dileep » 30 Jan 2020 08:08

^^Doable, but not viable.

Please remember that there is a significant population (evil,selfish or just naiive) that support these people. See the unrest with just the CAA, and just a notion of NRC. 'Dharmic' is a weakness often, and that will play.

No. I am not sure how much you can push defining a 'second class citizen' idea.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Dileep » 30 Jan 2020 08:18

Going back to the thread topic: "Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks"

See how the KL Governor defused the conflict with the commie govt after achieving the objective and before collateral damage started? Nicely done. Same thing can play here.

CAA is totally benign, so no official action can be taken by any world entity. Only crazies like Choriyan Psoriasis may create problem, but that needs a different solution. Till the rules of NRC gets published, there is no real issue. People protest. We deal things with firm but legal/moral actions. Let things wear out.

Boil the frog.. Eat the elephant... Eat slow and eat the palm tree.. ityaadi ityaadi..

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby nachiket » 31 Jan 2020 23:46

Guys, this is a short interview where my father speaks about the CAA and tries to clear up misconceptions about it especially from a legal perspective.

[/quote]

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Feb 2020 04:04

Correspondence between Hon. Donkeystani COTUSRep and one of her constituents. Came by e-pata.

***********************************************************************************************
Rep. Suzan K. DelBene
1st District, Washington
22121 17th Ave SE, Ste 220
Bothell, WA 98021
(425) 485-0085
204 W. Montgomery Street
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
(360) 416-7879

(To)
Mr. Michael Parker
10711 NE 37th Ct Apt 108
Kirkland, WA 98033-7954

Dear Mr. Parker,

Thank you for contacting my office regarding a resolution calling for the end of Indian restrictions on communications and mass detentions in Jammu and Kashmir (H.Res. 745). I appreciate hearing from you.

On August 5, 2019, after months of increased tensions between India and Pakistan, Indian Prime Minister Narenda Modi announced an amendment to India's constitution that removes the semi-autonomous authority given to a part of the Jammu and Kashmir territory. Both the Pakistan and Indian governments have made claims over certain parts of the territory, and each of the governments has disputed the boundaries. In February 2019, tensions increased after a bomb explosion killed 40 people in Indian-controlled land. Indian officials blamed a Pakistan-based terror group for the attack and conducted airstrikes on the alleged terror group, entering Pakistani air space for the first time since 1971. Since August, India imposed martial law on the region, arresting hundreds without charges and cutting off internet access for millions in the region.

H.Res. 745 would urge India to end the restrictions on communications and mass detentions in Jammu and Kashmir and preserve religious freedom for all residents. These reports of oppressive policies by the Indian government towards an ethnic minority are extremely troubling. As the world's largest democracy, India has a responsibility to lead by example and ensure that all people are treated fairly under the law. This includes freedom of the press, access to information, and the freedom to assemble. India and Pakistan must work hard to find a diplomatic solution that deescalates the situation immediately and respects the rights of the residents in Jammu and Kashmir. H.Res. 745 has been referred to the House Foreign Affairs Committee, where it awaits further consideration. Should this resolution come before the full House of Representatives for a vote, I will be sure to keep your views in mind.


Again, thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and concerns. I invite you to follow the links below to subscribe to my newsletter and social media to stay updated on my work in D.C. and my events at home in Washington. As always, my office is here to serve you, so please do not hesitate to contact us.
Sincerely,
Suzan DelBene
Suzan DelBene
Donkey Party Member of Congress

House Seal facebook icon Twitter icon Youtube icon Instagram icon
*************************************************************************************************************************
heres a reply i got from my congress rep after i requested them to honor the jan 19 kashmiri pandits and my reply to her
---------- Forwarded message -----

Dear Representative DelBene,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. It is quite informative and gratifying to see your humanitarian outlook on the Kashmir issue. However I respectfully must share my disappointment that you did not address the actual topic of my letter. I wrote to you in regards to the plight of the Kashmiri Pandits. Ethnically cleansed by mass rape and genocide, they remain forgotten by the world at large. A Kashmir related bill that does not address this issue is flawed to say the least. In fact it enables ethnic cleansing and genocide.

The bill is entitled "H.Res.745 - Urging the Republic of India to end the restrictions on communications and mass detentions in Jammu and Kashmir as swiftly as possible and preserve religious freedom for all residents." Yet by ignoring the indigenous Kashmiri Pandits the bill fails to even live up to its title. I encourage you to amend the bill by addressing this glaring omission. The bill also exposes its inaccuracy by ignoring the fact that the people of Jammu are overwhelmingly supportive of their new legal designation separate from that of Kashmir. While claiming to be supportive of Democracy the bill totally ignores the will of the people of Jammu and is this flawed in the extreme for it undermines the will of the people of Jammu.

I am also disappointed that despite it being common knowledge that terrorists use cell phones to detonate bombs that have killed thousands, mostly Muslim victims by the way, your reply merely addresses the suspension of cell phone service without revealing the vital necessity of such a move. When the internet is being used to coordinate massacres and terrorist attacks, it behooves those responsible for the safety of the public to curtail such services. This is done to save lives. While condemning suspension of phone and internet appears to be a call for liberty, in this case it in fact enables mass murder.

In the USA when a carjacked vehicle hurtles down the highway, the authorities immediately close all public access to that highway. Why? to oppress the public's freedom of movement or to protect the lives of the innocent? When one enters into JFK international arrivals, why is phone and internet blocked? Again to protect the lives of the public. Thus when people are being massacred in Kashmir through the use of internet and phone service the government of India has a duty to respond accordingly. There can be no democracy or freedom when one has been blown up in a terror attack. I urge you to think this through and not fall prey to the manipulations of those steeped in a bigoted false politically biased narrative.

In our own American history we saw the struggle between Traditionalist and Modernist Natives. Both were generally sincere in their responses to the loss of their lands and cultures. Yet we find that both Traditionalist and Modernist Natives ended up on Indian Reservations, their lands, religions, cultures and even their children were ripped away from them regardless of where they stood politically. This same struggle between Traditionalists and Modernist Indians continues to this day and is raging as we speak in Indi. Now it has come back to the USA. Rep Jayapal represents the Modernists and the BJP govt of India represents the Traditionalists. It is within her rights but Rep Jayapal is attempting to use her position within the US govt to punish her ideological and political rivals in India.

Going by the anti Traditionalist-Hindu vitriol promoted by Rep Jayapal and her ideological allies every great Native American Traditionalist leader be it King Phillip, Tupac, Pontiac, Tecumseh, Tenskwatawa, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse and Geronimo should be classified as Hitlerian-like Fascists Native Supremacists. But such a label is not only blatantly and historically wrong but it is in fact highly immoral and offensive. The only real difference between the Native American Traditionlsits and Indias Hindu Traditionalists is their population levels. While the small population of America's Natives allows for us to 'safely honor' them as non-threatening people of a by-gone era, it is as if India's massive Hindu population rooted in its ancient Indigenous traditions remains an 'untamed population' requiring 'Imperial Oversight'. Rep Jayapal's Bill smacks of such. It can be accurately compared to the 'Uncle Tom' syndrome experienced by American Slaves for it blatantly ignores the actual historical burdens unique to India. It is elitist and blatantly wrong for it straight jackets an artificial Western-centric and egregiously biased narrative designed to oppress the rise of a politically empowered Native Indian body politic. It is a shameful elitist scolding to put 'those unruly backward Hindoo Natives' in their place.

By supporting this bill condemning India you are repeating the Indigenous genocidal tragedy that continues to be a moral burden on all Americans. I urge you to consider what you are supporting. This bill for all intents and purposes is an attack upon an ancient Indigenous society. Hindu India is in fact the worlds last remaining truly functioning Indigenous native society. Hinduism existed before the Pyramids were even built yet for the past 1000 years Hindus were dominated over by foreign rulers. The election of PM Modi represents the first time in nearly 1000 years that Traditionalists Indigenous Hindus are at the helm of affairs within their own lands. This bill H.Res.745 - is a direct assault upon that Indigenous revival. It behooves all Americans the tread carefully and not give comfort nor enable the continued assault against the Indigenous people of the world.

I urge you to vote it down. In the least I urge you to amend it to address the plight of the Indigenous Kashmiri Pandits and also call for an end to the use of the Internet and cellular networks in the use of terrorism and the mass murder of the Kashmiri public. Again many of these fatalities are the very Kashmiri Muslims this bill claims to support.
So please go beyond the rhetoric, ignore the foreign ideological rivalries and support Native India's efforts to protect the lives of all the people of Kashmir.

Sincerely,
Michael Parker

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Rakesh » 01 Feb 2020 20:45

nachiket wrote:Guys, this is a short interview where my father speaks about the CAA and tries to clear up misconceptions about it especially from a legal perspective.

Please put this video in the first post of this thread or create a dedicated CAA thread. Folks are more inclined to watch a video versus reading material.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Feb 2020 01:09

^ Excellent idea. Nachiketji, or other mod, please do the needful, edit the first post with my gratitude. Thread is doing its job: articl(s) coming together with substance.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby nachiket » 04 Feb 2020 05:09

Rakesh and UB, I have updated the first post with the video.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Feb 2020 03:03

Posting here for lack of better place: one reality of the US newspaper space. I have not seen how to use this fact. This company's papers have **NOT** been in the lead of anti-India stuff AFAIK.

New York (CNN Business)In another sign of the growing financial crisis in print journalism, McClatchy (MNI), the owner or 30 US newspapers, has filed for bankruptcy protection.
The company, whose newspapers include the Miami Herald, The Kansas City Star, The Sacramento Bee, The Charlotte Observer, The News & Observer in Raleigh, North Carolina, and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in Texas, says it plans to stay in business and emerge from bankruptcy in the next few months.
McClatchy is the nation's second largest publisher of local newspapers behind only Gannett, the publisher of USA Today and hundreds of local newspapers. Gannett has had its own problems and was recently acquired by New Media Investment Group.
McClatchy and some of the newspaper companies it has acquired over the years, including Knight-Ridder, have a long had a higher reputation than Gannett for quality news reporting. It recently won two Pulitzer Prizes and many other awards, most recently for the Miami Herald's coverage of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.

{Old Malloo saying: if u r a movie-maker an u see Awards ppl coming for u, run 4 ur life!}

Despite that reputation for quality, it has been cutting staff in response to falling revenue and mounting losses. Company filings show McClatchy had 3,500 full-time and part-time employees as of December 31, 2018, the most recent figure available. Five years earlier it reported just over twice as many employees. The company's press release said it has reduced its operating expenses by $186.9 million, or 23.3%, in the last three years alone, but it wasn't enough.
The company reported a net loss of $364 million in the first nine months of 2019, up from a loss of $52 million in the year-earlier period. Revenue in the first three quarters of 2019 fell by 11%, or nearly $68 million, with a decline in revenue from both advertisers and readers.
Much of the larger loss was due to a write-down in the assets of the company, as well as restructuring expenses and severance charges. But even without those charges and other special items, the company would have reported a net loss of $34.2 million in the first nine months of the year.
The job cuts at McClatchy have become the norm for the troubled newspaper industry, which has seen increased competition from online outlets for both readers and advertising dollars.
Labor Department data show that jobs at newspapers have fallen every year since 1998, a net loss of nearly 300,000 jobs during that period. That represents a nearly 70% drop in employment.
The company said it will use bankruptcy process to reduce "legacy debt and pension obligations." It said it will be working with the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, the agency that guarantees pension payments to beneficiaries of bankrupt companies, the same way the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. insures bank deposits to banking customers. The company said it believes there will be no cut in retirement benefits to its plan participants as the PBGC takes control of the plans.
"While this is obviously a sad milestone after 163 years of family control, McClatchy remains a strong operating company and committed to essential local news and information," said company chairman Kevin McClatchy, the great-great grandson of the company's founder, in a statement in a story by the company's Washington bureau. "While we tried hard to avoid this step, there's no question that the scale of our 75-year-old pension plan -- with 10 pensioners for every single active employee -- is a reflection of another economic era."

The company's press release said the bankruptcy should be able to help transform more quickly to a digital news company. It said it remains committed to quality local news.

"When local media suffers in the face of industry challenges, communities suffer: polarization grows, civic connections fray," said CEO Craig Forman. "In this important moment for independent local journalism in the public interest, a reorganized capital structure will enable McClatchy to continue to pursue our strategy of digital transformation and continue to produce strong local journalism essential to the communities we serve."
Shares of McClatchy (MNI) were not trading early Thursday following the news. Shareholders are likely to have the value of their holdings wiped out. Share price had already declined 88% in the last 12 months through Wednesday's close at 75 cents.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Feb 2020 03:07

Related article

Ferro's sale means that Alden Global Capital -- already the controlling shareholder in Digital First Media and its 200 papers -- is now Tribune Publishing's biggest shareholder. And this is being interpreted as very bad news by staffers at Tribune's papers. "Alden has a well-established history of harming media institutions and journalists," the Chicago Tribune's guild said in a statement.
Nico Savidge of the San Jose Mercury News Guild observed that "reporters at Alden-owned papers in the Bay Area held a protest over the gutting of their newsrooms and dismal pay" just a couple of hours before the Alden-Tribune news hit. This photo is from the protest.
>> Flashback to Joe Nocera's column about Alden last year: "Imagine If Gordon Gekko Bought News Empires..."

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Feb 2020 23:16

Pertinent to the :(( :(( about NRC, NPR etc.

IOW, new donkeystani rant: If we *ucked up, so will everyone else. And look! Obamacare's initial Grand Gala Launch where the servers crashed, Iowa Kakoos... Q.E.D.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2020 09:35

Meanwhile there are some sane Indians writing calmy ad effectively. Sadly this is only at RT.com, not any Indian portal where there is only yelling and hype.

Western media is wrong: India isn’t losing its pluralistic ideas
28 Feb, 2020 03:09

Sagarneel Sinha is an India-based commentator who writes on Indian politics, national affairs, religion, culture, and philosophy. His op-eds have appeared in the Statesman, the Quint, Asia Times & the Shillong Times. His Twitter handle is @SagarneelSinha
This week’s editorial of the Guardian on recent violence in Delhi claims that “Modi stoked this fire.” Western media’s biases against democratically elected Prime Minister Narendra Modi is now a normal thing.

On December 13, 2019, the Washington Post published an analytical article titled “India’s new law may leave millions of Muslims without citizenship,” while the Economist in its edition of January 23 said: “Narendra Modi stokes division in the world’s biggest democracy.” In fact, the Guardian editorial had described last year’s democratic mandate as “bad for India’s soul.”

However, the image that Western media wants to portray about India is highly exaggerated. India’s new citizenship law, which they call “divisive,” isn’t actually divisive because it doesn’t snatch away the rights of any Indian citizen, including Indian Muslims. This law just aims to fasttrack the citizenship of those six religious minorities who came to India before 2015 from three Muslim majority countries – Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Importantly, this amendment passed in the Indian parliament doesn’t alter the existing policy of naturalization, which is open for every legal immigrant irrespective of any religion.

Despite these facts, Western media picked up the narratives of Indian left intellectuals and started portraying the Modi government’s new law as part of a sinister plan to turn “Indian Muslims into second-class citizens.” They state that there have been huge protests by “secular Indians cutting across regions” against the law. No doubt, the Western media view these protests “as an attempt to save India’s soul.”

Here, the Western media ignores some important points. Firstly, the protests are led largely by a minority Muslim community aided by left intellectuals and activists, who mostly are soft towards the opposition parties. Muslims are protesting because of the widely spread misconception that the new law would render them “stateless,” which is completely untrue.

Secondly, what the Western media won’t tell their readers is that a majority of Hindus don’t have an issue with the citizenship law. So, terms like “Indians are angry” are highly overstated. Only in Assam, situated in the northeast region of India, the locality, both majority Assamese-speaking Hindus and minority Assamese-speaking Muslims are against this act – but their reasons are completely different. They are against immigrants whether Hindus or Muslims or belonging to any religion, as the province has already been burdened with both Bengali-speaking Hindu and Muslim immigrants for decades. Instead, Assamese are often associated with having some sort of “xenophobia” – which is highly inappropriate.

Thirdly, Western media terms this act as a “majoritarian decision to turn secular India into a Hindu religious state.” They are wrong again. The new law, keeping local interests in mind, excludes northeastern provinces where the majority are mostly Christians or where Christians have a large population. Had the law of the Modi government been a “Hindu supremacist one,” as alleged by Western media, these provinces with a large non-Hindu population would have been included too, against their wishes. Importantly, the six religions that the act mentions include Christianity and Zorastriansm, apart from the four Indic religions – Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.
Lastly, the Western media states that this act will be followed by the National Register of Citizens across the country “to complete the process of exclusion of Muslims as citizens of India.” This is again highly exaggerated. PM Modi himself has clarified that there has been no decision taken on this by his government. Until now, the NRC has been implemented only in Assam. But the context is completely different, which the government too has stated repeatedly. Assam’s NRC ordered by India’s Supreme Court was based on the Assam Accord signed by the Indian National Congress government led by then-PM Rajiv Gandhi with Assamese organizations in 1985. Significantly, the NRC is about detecting illegal immigrants with no parameters favoring any particular religion.

The recent horrific Delhi riots, in which both Hindus and Muslims clashed with each other, too are the outcome of this constant fear mongering of Muslims, which polarized both communities. It happened due to the involvement of some mischievous anti-social elements aided by intelligence failure. But it would be grossly incorrect to interpret on this basis that “India is losing its pluralistic ideas.” Delhi is only a part of India. It doesn’t wholly represent India as the Western media believes. Communal riots have occurred earlier too in different parts of India many times since 1947. Although there have been tough times, India has never abandoned its pluralistic ideas, which are not facing attack under Modi’s rule.


Some of us depend on collecting such pieces at BRF for future use because battles are won by patient hard work.

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Re: Temp topic: Countering the JKLCAANRC attacks

Postby Rudradev » 29 Feb 2020 02:28

ALERT: Need some support on a New York Magazine forums discussion. You can log in with a Facebook or Google ID to participate.

LINK: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02 ... l#comments


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