Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

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SriKumar
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby SriKumar » 20 Mar 2020 16:40

Bart S wrote:People who violate quarantine after coming from abroad should have their passports cancelled, and those who are well-to-do and responsible for such messes should be made to pay for the cleanup.

Putting a stamp on the hand or cheek if they get out so all will know. Public release of names and faces. Financial punishments and travel restrictions are post-facto. Getting out is tantamount to attempted murder, in this situation.

What mystifies me is that these quarantine breakers first and foremost will infect their own family members that they go back to. Don't they know?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby SriKumar » 20 Mar 2020 16:44

KaranM- no where did i suggest you or anyone else keep quiet. You misread my post and it's intent.

Karan M
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2020 16:44

SriKumar wrote:
Bart S wrote:People who violate quarantine after coming from abroad should have their passports cancelled, and those who are well-to-do and responsible for such messes should be made to pay for the cleanup.

Putting a stamp on the hand or cheek if they get out so all will know. Public release of names and faces. Financial punishments and travel restrictions are post-facto. Getting out is tantamount to attempted murder, in this situation.

What mystifies me is that these quarantine breakers first and foremost will infect their own family members that they go back to. Don't they know?


*They dont care* and their families are often complicit.

A railway officer in Bangalore recently tried to hide her kid in quarters. Some WB babu tried to get her son a free pass.

Decades of moral corruption can't be made to disappear.

Karan M
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2020 16:46

SriKumar wrote:KaranM- no where did i suggest you or anyone else keep quiet. You misread my post and it's intent.


I am not judging your intent, more like shaking my head at what our "fellow Indians" are doing. Some (many?) are complete cretins and sadly a paternalistic GOI has been way too soft with many of these grade A jerks. That's all I can say. Also, I am deeply worried our current set-up of tests only from x countries is flawed. I am hoping I am wrong.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2020 16:55

kit wrote:
Karan M wrote:I am sorry to say this but GOI's laissez faire towards a stupid and selfish population and not invoking harsh penalties + the ICMR's insistence that only folks who have direct contact with foreign travelers need be tested have set us up for a very high risk situation.

People are breaking the quarantine with zero qualms or fear of penalties. Again and again, we hear the same story, with zero reports of penalties being imposed.

Folks with symptoms are being turned away by Govt setups w/o any recourse to testing in pvt setups either, because they don't meet "strict criteria" which in other countries was relaxed. Pvt setups are not yet cleared nor have they been given assistance on a war-footing, couldn't a few IAF C-17s have been retasked to bring kits from abroad if as GOI guys tell us, the air travel part has delayed receipt?

An important point raised is that if things are really so bad, why aren't our hospitals full already. Critics are pointing out that the situation was likewise in Wuhan till early December, after which things took a drastic turn for the worse in 2-3 weeks. I hope they are wrong.



I was just talking to someone who is in isolation after testing positive in spain, the guys were thinking nothing will happen like in nearby Italy and everyone was going doing their usual "business" in shops gyms public transport etc , now almost everyone he knows has tested positive, scary !!.. Forewarned is forearmed, India needs stricter measures maybe even enact an emergency if required before it is too late ., people cannot be running around or escape at will if tested positive !!


I agree. Look most of us who were on and off tracking this situation abroad were sitting with our mouths open at how delayed our response was versus what could have been done, in terms of travel.

I remember asking in the second week of Jan and tagging all the big names to stop travel from Europe. First week of Jan itself, the stories from China were scary and it was clear Europe was also in trouble.

When travel was stopped in March - I remember sardonically asking "why so early", I mean this is just some mango guy realizing the gravity of the situation from news leaking out on the net. The real decision makers have far more authoritative info, or they should. They have access to real experts in ICMR etc.

The joy was once some steps were taken at least we did effective follow-up and did a look in the rear-view mirror sort of method. We got delayed by WHO. Comparing us to other countries is not "on". They have much much better healthcare funding, infra and lower population density.

But there have been so many flaws in choosing "country of origin" - did folks who came up with that country of travel stuff not understand how hub and spoke airport systems function, and desi travellers travel? I mean I am on some random travel forums, and people are taking personal loans or doing Insta stories from half a dozen countries per Euro trip.

I am just concerned our system is completely not set up for effectiveness. Whether it be defence procurement or stuff like this, common sense, hard nosed questions are missing, and domain experts are 2nd tier as versus the tier 1 policy makers.

This entire bureaucratic steel frame of ours is severely compromised and is meant for pushing files not outcomes.

And also there is clearly a deep desire to not "offend", ironic for a Govt elected to be as decisive as possible. Yogi at least is doing that bit.

Yesterday, a circular says we are banning exports of sanitizers, raw material, ventilators etc. Yesterday. We are towards the 3rd week of March. Think things through - in the first week of Jan itself, there were reports of shortages of material in China. Did it really take three months for GOI to come up with this, now?

I am hoping I am wrong on all points and my cribbing is just that.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby chola » 20 Mar 2020 17:04

Maybe the "Herd Immunization" people in the UK and US are right. Maybe there is is no way to wall off this disease any more than we could for the flu.

Even Cheen, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore who flattened the curve and got through first wave of the pandemic are at increasing risk for the second wave. Unless you cut yourself completely off from the world (and it would need to be indefinite) then eventually the disease will come back in.

https://www.latintimes.com/coronavirus-asia-update-china-south-korea-and-singapore-brace-possible-second-wave-457126

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-taiwan-blames-britain-for-their-second-wave-of-infections
Last edited by chola on 20 Mar 2020 17:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2020 17:04

pgbhat wrote:Problem I have with the way community spread is being detected is that they seem to be taking samples from people already admitted to hospital with respiratory illness/pneumonia. The test results lag by 14 days because of virus incubation time, by the time community spread is detected we would be two weeks into it. scary for a country like India. More random testing of foreign returned folks who are asymptomatic would be required immediately to catch this faster. In fact everyone who has traveled last month or so and their immediately friends/families should be checked for respiratory illnesses. Tracing is a thankless job.


Yes. This is the single biggest point raised so far and I haven't yet seen a convincing reply which counters this point. Also, I would also do more sampling in hospitals, hotels etc where foreigners congregate. The assumption is that "are you directly in contact with x country". That is a completely flawed assumption. You can travel throughout Europe on a single visa, you interchange aircraft at airports wherein you mix with folks from all these places, so how does country of travel origin alone matter?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby kit » 20 Mar 2020 17:47

chola wrote:Maybe the "Herd Immunization" people in the UK and US are right. Maybe there is is no way to wall off this disease any more than we could for the flu.

Even Cheen, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore who flattened the curve and got through first wave of the pandemic are at increasing risk for the second wave. Unless you cut yourself completely off from the world (and it would need to be indefinite) then eventually the disease will come back in.

https://www.latintimes.com/coronavirus-asia-update-china-south-korea-and-singapore-brace-possible-second-wave-457126

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-taiwan-blames-britain-for-their-second-wave-of-infections


Herd immunity is achieved in a democratic society by vaccination !! .. keep in mind the Corona virus is highly infective that the entire human race will be affected in an year in varying degrees of mortality and morbidity. The mortality rate for more than 60 to 70 is as high as 15percent. " Herd immunity" is a farce and equal to suggesting to let a very significant number die if no mass screening and isolation of vulnerable population is in place.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sooraj » 20 Mar 2020 17:51

Iran reports 1,237 new cases and 149 new deaths, raising total to 19,644 cases and 1,433 dead.

Spain reports 1,903 new cases and 169 new deaths, raising total to 19,980 cases and 1,002 dead.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sooraj » 20 Mar 2020 17:52

TMC MP Derek O'Brien in self-quarantine, sources say he was sitting beside BJP MP Dushyant Singh who attended singer Kanika's Kapoor's party.

BJP's Vasundhara Raje, son Dushyant in self quarantine after attending dinner with Kanika Kapoor.

Kanika Kapoor cancelled an event in Dubai due to coronavirus but went ahead with the events in Lucknow.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 20 Mar 2020 17:53

India at 223. It is now increasing rapidly...

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Bart S » 20 Mar 2020 17:55

And who would have thought that it would be the educated ultra-elite folks who spread the virus as opposed to the much maligned unhygenic gawaar folks. :evil:

I think going forward every minute is critical. State of emergency needs to happen now, rather than half-measures and 'encouraging' people do stuff.
Last edited by Bart S on 20 Mar 2020 17:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby madhu » 20 Mar 2020 17:55

Coronavirus: Shaheen Bagh protest to continue during janta curfew
A protester said the women had been taking every precaution and they were covered in burqa all the time. Shaheen Bagh protesters plans to continue protest during janta curfew on Sunday


why rightwing people not filing PIL on Shaheen Bagh protesters attempt to mass murderer charges? is right to protest greater then right to live? :evil:

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby SandeepA » 20 Mar 2020 17:55

Speaking of vaccines, is a vaccine for this thing even possible? There is no vaccine for the flu or for all the other coronavirii that caused disease even after all these years. I agree there was possibly very little intent and money to come up with a vaccine then but with the greatest of intent and money now we do not have the time. By the time a vaccine is really out its possible humanity would have acquired herd immunity anyway!

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sooraj » 20 Mar 2020 17:57

KanikaKapoor party was attended by BJP MP Dushyant Singh, he later attended Parliament and Also went to President House.

Uttar Pradesh (UP) Health Minister Jai Pratap Singh had attended singer Kanika Kapoor's party in Lucknow.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby hanumadu » 20 Mar 2020 18:03

It seems the high flying socialites cannot live without attending parties. It's like oxygen for them. They would rather die than stay at home.

A lot of people are foolishly thinking that not having symptoms is not having an infection. After few days of quarantine, they seem to think that all is good. I think it is not being communicated well that 14 days of quarantine is required. Blare it on the TV, on the radio that 14 days is 14 days and not 4 days.

As for testing, I think GOI is testing and monitoring people who returned from abroad. Currently more than 50000 people are being monitored. At least some of them must be being tested. The samples from people in the hospitals with respiratory problems are less than 1000. The remaining tests that are done so far must be mostly from the foreign returned people and their contacts.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby hanumadu » 20 Mar 2020 18:04

SandeepA wrote:Speaking of vaccines, is a vaccine for this thing even possible? There is no vaccine for the flu or for all the other coronavirii that caused disease even after all these years. I agree there was possibly very little intent and money to come up with a vaccine then but with the greatest of intent and money now we do not have the time. By the time a vaccine is really out its possible humanity would have acquired herd immunity anyway!


Flu virus keeps mutating. So while flu vaccines get developed for known strains, new strains keep emerging.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby jaysimha » 20 Mar 2020 18:05

https://www.memri.org/tv/canadian-imam- ... ed-fetuses

Canadian Imam Hussein Amer : Allah's revenge against the Chinese for how they treat the Uyghur Muslims,

"When you pull the hijab off of the head of an Uyghur Muslim woman, and when you violate her honor and attack her until she is on the verge of death... Don't you see, as I see, that people in China are now wearing masks that make it so you can barely see anything?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby A Deshmukh » 20 Mar 2020 18:31

we were at 197 in the morning. 250 now.
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby hanumadu » 20 Mar 2020 18:43

A Deshmukh wrote:we were at 197 in the morning. 250 now.
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/


Its 223, not 250.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby a_bharat » 20 Mar 2020 18:44

A Deshmukh wrote:we were at 197 in the morning. 250 now.
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/


223 (191 Indian + 32 Foreign)

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Bart S » 20 Mar 2020 18:50

a_bharat wrote:
A Deshmukh wrote:we were at 197 in the morning. 250 now.
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/


223 (191 Indian + 32 Foreign)


Till yesterday I was going by the numbers.

With this mess with Kanika Kapoor and political + bureaucratic elites who partied with her, I don't think that those numbers have any meaning anymore. They cannot be taken seriously.

Still religious functions have not been cancelled. Mosques need to be shut down ahead of Friday. This step should have been taken 10 days back, it is mind boggling that a satsang of 1500 people was allowed to happen, and that COVID patients were allowed to roam around and mingle in that crowd.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 20 Mar 2020 18:57

There are reports from Karnataka. Someone in Kodagu village, a returnee from Europe, doing the usual nonsense having fun, was tested positive. Entire village now quarantined. Bloody irresponsible people.

Transport between two towns suspended, after someone was tested positive.

The silver lining compared to other countries, is that local official have power isolate a place, without having to wait for state or central orders.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Bart S » 20 Mar 2020 19:02

No community spread of coronavirus in India: Vardhan
Source: PTI - Edited By: Hemant Waje
March 20, 2020 16:36 IST

Union health minister Harsh Vardhan on Friday said coronavirus infections have not reached the "community level" and asserted the government is trying to use "good information" in the best manner to deal with the situation.


How on earth can this be true if people who recently returned from abroad are allowed a free run of the country and allowed to mingle with hundreds, even thousands of people at mass gatherings! :evil:

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Pratyush » 20 Mar 2020 19:03

Given the stupidity displayed by people in this time. It's only a matter of time that containment will be defeated.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 20 Mar 2020 19:06

This is what is happening in Italy.. what a community spread would look like. Lots of people hospitalized for pnuemonia.


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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Ambar » 20 Mar 2020 19:12

A glimmer of hope is that the fatality rate is starting to taper off and in some cases drop. US started at around 3% and is now at ~1.5%. Germany seems to be doing a great job especially considering the grim situation in Europe with a fatality rate of 0.25%. South Korea and Belgium too have reduced it to below 2%, Singapore is at 0% and Japan with one of world's oldest population is at 3%. The epicenter now seems to be Italy, Spain and France in europe, China and Iran in asia. Iran's real death rate is likely x10 than what is being reported, and China is clearly suppressing the news of new cases/fatalities.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby jpremnath » 20 Mar 2020 19:12

madhu wrote:Coronavirus: Shaheen Bagh protest to continue during janta curfew
A protester said the women had been taking every precaution and they were covered in burqa all the time. Shaheen Bagh protesters plans to continue protest during janta curfew on Sunday


why rightwing people not filing PIL on Shaheen Bagh protesters attempt to mass murderer charges? is right to protest greater then right to live? :evil:



Seriously?...Look at what right wing folks are doing !!...Attending parties when strictly advised not to. You should see the pics of BJP celebration in MP ..
Shaheen bagh wont be the reason our infected counts to shoot up from here on!...Its reckless behaviour from the everyone right, left and center!!...I think the government and the public got complacent after seeing our low numbers till yesterday.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2020 19:19

Bart S wrote:
a_bharat wrote:
223 (191 Indian + 32 Foreign)


Till yesterday I was going by the numbers.

With this mess with Kanika Kapoor and political + bureaucratic elites who partied with her, I don't think that those numbers have any meaning anymore. They cannot be taken seriously.

Still religious functions have not been cancelled. Mosques need to be shut down ahead of Friday. This step should have been taken 10 days back, it is mind boggling that a satsang of 1500 people was allowed to happen, and that COVID patients were allowed to roam around and mingle in that crowd.


I swear - I am having a tough time justifying (to myself) what the Govt is doing allowing all this stuff to proceed unimpeded when people are openly quarantine busting.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby A Deshmukh » 20 Mar 2020 19:20

a_bharat wrote:
A Deshmukh wrote:we were at 197 in the morning. 250 now.
https://www.mohfw.gov.in/

223 (191 Indian + 32 Foreign)

+ 23 Cured
+ 4 Deaths
250 total cases.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Deans » 20 Mar 2020 19:24

Karan M wrote:I was thinking Deans was being harsh, but he was right - these people are completely reckless, shameless and out-of-control.

And the entire "test" from a high risk place setup was broken to begin with. If you have a Schengen visa you can roam around Europe. So while our folks were scrutinizing only "high risk countries" mentioned in PP and the forms, who knows how many of these crooked idiots actually traveled around the countries in question and then took a flight out of another place entirely.


I've heard of people who had been to Italy and to avoid the compulsory quarantine on return (I believe GOI was among the first to enforce it) went to Vienna or Zurich (a few hours by train from Milan) to fly back - since Austria and Switzerland were not at the time, on the radar. A couple of days later pax from the whole of the EU /US came under the scanner - at which point arriving pax started cribbing about dirty toilets and crowding on arrival (though the same people would have no problem enduring standing for 6+ hours to enter the US).

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby arshyam » 20 Mar 2020 19:31

In the meantime, our courts are as usual trying to interfere in things they should stay well out of. But, hey, who the heck has any rights to question their priorities? Why is this even subject to judicial review?

Delhi HC Agrees To Hear Plea Challenging India’s Travel Ban On Europe Over Coronavirus Pandemic - Swarajya

The Delhi High Court on Friday (20 March) agreed to hear a plea challenging the Indian government’s order to ban all travellers from the European Union, UK and Turkey effective 18 March over the coronavirus pandemic.

As per a Press Trust of India report, a bench of Justices Siddharth Mridul and I S Mehta agreed to place the matter for hearing. A separate bench will now hear the petition as Justice Mridul’s daughter is currently stranded in UK. The Justice while hearing the matter urged the centre to consider evacuating Indians stranded abroad.

The petition has been filed by the father of an Indian student in Scotland who is unable to return back to India.

As part of the ban, airlines has been instructed not to board any passenger from these countries at the relevant departure points.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby hanumadu » 20 Mar 2020 19:35

A Deshmukh wrote:
a_bharat wrote:223 (191 Indian + 32 Foreign)

+ 23 Cured
+ 4 Deaths
250 total cases.


223 includes the cured and the dead.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby pankajs » 20 Mar 2020 19:39

You've got to hit them where it hurts ... their beloved foreign trips .. some for work, some for study and rest for pleasure.

GOI has to start cancelling passports of those found flouting "Home quarantine" norms. Not much in terms of manpower or procedure needed because the whole thing is centralized and the data is with the GOI on both issuance and entry/exit. No elaborate ritual or arraignment is needed.

GOI missed the simplest of a measure for compliance. GOI should have started this on first instance.

The 4 guys who went from Mumbai to Gujarat on train were most likely students and would have hated to get their future travels barred indefinitely! Similarly, the West Bengal officer's son studying in Cambridge would henceforth be forced to get admission into a local college to peruse his degree and the Odiya "researcher" would have to go ahead with his research in Odisa wonlee. The Singer would henceforth have to perform and holiday in India wonlee!

4-5 such cases hyped up with media tamasha would have brought immediate compliance from the rest.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby chola » 20 Mar 2020 19:45

Ambar wrote:A glimmer of hope is that the fatality rate is starting to taper off and in some cases drop. US started at around 3% and is now at ~1.5%. Germany seems to be doing a great job especially considering the grim situation in Europe with a fatality rate of 0.25%. South Korea and Belgium too have reduced it to below 2%, Singapore is at 0% and Japan with one of world's oldest population is at 3%. The epicenter now seems to be Italy, Spain and France in europe, China and Iran in asia. Iran's real death rate is likely x10 than what is being reported, and China is clearly suppressing the news of new cases/fatalities.


The best records to figure out the fatality rate should be from South Korea. They test more than anyone else -- by many many multiples. No one else is even close in blanketing their population with testing.

The numbers Italy are sh1t scary with 3.5K deaths out of 41K infection cases (8.5%) BUT we really have no idea that the infected cases are only 41K. They don't have the tests available like SoKo. Italy could have 100s of thousands of mild cases which would lower the death rate way down.

Use the South Korean numbers. Fatality is like 1.5% for most populations. Take this seriously but let's not declare doomsday and drive everyone to despair.
Last edited by chola on 20 Mar 2020 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby pankajs » 20 Mar 2020 19:46

https://twitter.com/prasannavishy/statu ... 3506813952
Prasanna Viswanathan @prasannavishy

Karnataka Ups Battle Against Coronavirus: Forms Special Task Force, Entire Kodagu Village Under Containment https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/karn ... ontainment
via @swarajyamag


https://twitter.com/timesofindia/status ... 4002652162
Times of India @timesofindia

Coronavirus: Assam, Bengal & Odisha men flee Kerala quarantine http://toi.in/wL19gY/a24gk via @TOICitiesNews
This is a different set that has to be tamed. Obviously these are not foreign returned.
Last edited by pankajs on 20 Mar 2020 19:55, edited 1 time in total.

hanumadu
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby hanumadu » 20 Mar 2020 19:54

How long before we have a virus with the fatality of SARS-COV-1 and the contagiousness of SARS-COV-2?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Gerard » 20 Mar 2020 20:04

The more fatal a virus is, the less chance to spread. The most successful viruses are found embedded in human DNA, in every cell, passed down in all humans. Their dna is inactivated and does nothing.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby pankajs » 20 Mar 2020 20:07

Cancel his passport and let him enjoy a blissful married life in India.

https://twitter.com/umasudhir/status/12 ... 8996753409
Uma Sudhir @umasudhir\

Man who returned from #France on March 12 & was asked to be on self-quarantine along with his friend, got married yesterday in #Warangal; marriage attended by over 1000, including VIPs, claimed groom's father; reception to happen this evening @KTRTRS @ndtv @cpwrlc

#coronavirus
Update: Wedding reception in #Warangal this evening cancelled & groom has been sent into quarantine; hope this serves as eye-opener to everyone else not to indulge in such, should I say foolhardy adventures, in times of #coronavirus, putting society to risk; thanks @KTRTRS
@ndtv

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby pankajs » 20 Mar 2020 20:22

https://twitter.com/NewIndianXpress/sta ... 2810866690
The New Indian Express @NewIndianXpress

#CoronaVirusUpdate | 22-year-old doctor from #Maharashtra's Jalgaon knocked the doors of at least five private hospitals, but he was refused admission being a #coronavirus suspect. Now, he is in a ventilator, battling for his life.
@ss_suryawanshi

Lesson

1. Everyone is vulnerable Dog bite case (Rabies ???)
2. When in doubt, approach a government facility that is listed by the respective state government. Don't waste time with private hospitals.

Be aware and spread the message.


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