Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

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KLNMurthy
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Mar 2020 00:54

Deans wrote:
nam wrote:Another point, are our migrant workers that poor that they don't have any savings to survive for couple of weeks? I find it difficult to believe.


90% of Indian households have less than Rs 10,000 in cash or liquid assets (excluding gold ornaments). An individual worker will have less. That's the reality of India.

Any idea as to the capabilities of India to mobilize and provide basic support for this population under shelter-in-place conditions?

- organizational capabilities—I imagine these exist dud to steel frame, however rusty if is, plus voluntary organizations and civil society

—material supplies—I am guessing there is virtually indefinite capacity to keep producing food, drinking water, etc.

Modi referred to both the above and gave assurance that there is no problem on those fronts. Is he being overly optimistic?

—what else?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 29 Mar 2020 01:05

Again for people who doubt our ability to manage pandemic.. or think we are not doing enough. Here is something..

Andhra government tracks down 12,000 foreign returnees and checks for symptoms, liaising with GoI.




Other than Germany, I haven't heard of such level of contact tracing, in any of the hard hit European or NA countries.

This is how you try to contain...

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Mar 2020 01:05

Bart S wrote:
chola wrote:
I've seen the beating videos (they are all over YT) and I am very uneasy about them. It is for the greater good. But it still hurts to see them beat other Indians like that. Why so
quick with the lathi? Can there not be a little more understanding and a lighter touch in these unprecedented times?


Put yourself in their shoes. Even if you try to be compassionate, there are so many idiots testing your patience that you start seeing them all in the same light.

IMO it is less a question of losing patience than a matter of SOPs. Due to the mass amounts of what US would call public disorderly conduct even in normal times, I am guessing police find it makes more sense to settle the matter with a couple of non-lethal hits than to start drowning in endless paperwork and dealing with an immobile court system. From public’s side also, I imagine that they prefer to avoid the legal system, hence, other than in stratospheric woke circles, there is tacit acceptance that if you f$&k up, you can expect a couple of the best from cops, and that’s an end of the matter.

It would better if cops could move to a system of issuing challan tied to aadhaar, but during this emergency, police are going to bring their existing tactics to the field.

You can’t be expected to dig a well while the house is burning, as the subhashitam goes.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sanjayc » 29 Mar 2020 01:11

Coronavirus lockdown: UP govt accuses Delhi of ‘playing with lives’ of migrants labourers
In a statement issued by the UP government, it said that the Delhi government disconnected water and electricity connections of people. “During lockdown, people were not even provided food and milk in Delhi,” said the statement.

The Uttar Pradesh government on Saturday accused the Delhi government of indulging in “cheap politics at a time of crisis and playing with the lives of people of this country”.

In a statement issued by the UP government, it said that the Delhi government disconnected water and electricity connections of people. “During lockdown, people were not even provided food and milk in Delhi,” said the statement. The UP government has alleged that DTC buses dropped off people at the Delhi border in the name of help.

“Announcements were made in Delhi and rumours were spread that there are buses at UP border waiting to drop people to their destinations,” said the statement.
The statement said the Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath stayed awake all night to organize transportation for people from UP and Bihar coming from other states. “At night, transportation officials, drivers and conductors were called from home,” said the statement and added that 1,000 buses were arranged at night to bring back people stuck on the Delhi border.

“The CM stayed awake all night and arranged 1,000 buses for people to reach their destinations from Noida, Ghaziabad, Bulandhshahr, Aligarh and Hapur,” said the statement which further said that food was arranged for these people and their children Friday night.

At Lucknow’s Charbagh railway station, the DGP of the state and other police officials were deployed to ensure people get help.

“Buses were arranged for people from Charbagh so people can get to their destinations. The DGP and Lucknow commissioner also made arrangements to feed at Charbagh,” said a statement by the government.


https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-6335751/

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sanjayc » 29 Mar 2020 01:11

sanjayc wrote:
Coronavirus lockdown: UP govt accuses Delhi of ‘playing with lives’ of migrants labourers

In a statement issued by the UP government, it said that the Delhi government disconnected water and electricity connections of people. “During lockdown, people were not even provided food and milk in Delhi,” said the statement.

The Uttar Pradesh government on Saturday accused the Delhi government of indulging in “cheap politics at a time of crisis and playing with the lives of people of this country”.

In a statement issued by the UP government, it said that the Delhi government disconnected water and electricity connections of people. “During lockdown, people were not even provided food and milk in Delhi,” said the statement. The UP government has alleged that DTC buses dropped off people at the Delhi border in the name of help.

“Announcements were made in Delhi and rumours were spread that there are buses at UP border waiting to drop people to their destinations,” said the statement.
The statement said the Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath stayed awake all night to organize transportation for people from UP and Bihar coming from other states. “At night, transportation officials, drivers and conductors were called from home,” said the statement and added that 1,000 buses were arranged at night to bring back people stuck on the Delhi border.

“The CM stayed awake all night and arranged 1,000 buses for people to reach their destinations from Noida, Ghaziabad, Bulandhshahr, Aligarh and Hapur,” said the statement which further said that food was arranged for these people and their children Friday night.

At Lucknow’s Charbagh railway station, the DGP of the state and other police officials were deployed to ensure people get help.

“Buses were arranged for people from Charbagh so people can get to their destinations. The DGP and Lucknow commissioner also made arrangements to feed at Charbagh,” said a statement by the government.


https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-6335751/

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Mar 2020 01:18

Ambar wrote:
Dilbu wrote:Labourers from TN and KA have tried to walk back to their villages in Kerala also. People staying back are from northern states because they cannot walk that much distance. More than shortage of food I think the migrant labourers are sensing loss of job opportunities in the cities. It is normal for them to try and get back to their villages to be with their families.


Dilbuji, many daily laborers and migrant workers left home for their towns and villages on the day the lockdown announcement was made. What is happening in Delhi is different. The state government is purposely and deliberately creating a situation where migrant workers are being forced, coerced into a mass exodus. In many slums electricity and water has been cut off for the last 2 days,and rumors were spread that the government was planning on a prolonged lockdown. Today they started running DTS buses for the sole purpose of dropping people off to border towns. Look at the pattern, RJ government attempted to do the same thing today until GJ sealed off the border. Its a well designed game to implode India.

I hope this is some kind of CT. This would seriously undermine national interest. OMG. IF this is what's actually happening, the GOI should declare President's rule in such places. Haramkhor people should be punished for putting the lives of so many at stake to score political points.

What is happening with day laborer situation in non Delhi metro areas like Mumbai etc? It might also be that much of the labor population comes from UP Bihar region and might not find it easy to get back from far away locations like Mumbai.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 29 Mar 2020 01:21

amar_p wrote:Vijayk, the study you quote has been seriously questioned if not debunked a couple of days ago, IIRC there was a TOI article on this. As per French Govt advisory they identified just 2 strains, L & S. S being more virulent.


Thank you.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Rahul M » 29 Mar 2020 01:24

Docs working in India, or those who know medical professionals working in India, are you seeing a spike in pneumonia cases ?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby kvraghav » 29 Mar 2020 01:30

Asked same question yesterday to my govt doctor friend in Mysore. Many cases of allergic bronchitis which people are mistaking for corona and requesting tests but not pneumonia

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 29 Mar 2020 01:33

one more question for Docs - Does asthma inhalers like albuterol early help avoid the pneumonia/breathing issues?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Mar 2020 01:33

Karan M wrote:

Can anyone translate?
How many units, ordered, ready?

I hope Dr Reddy stops taking such interviews from so close.

Brief summary from memory:

- shared ventilators developed, tried out in Apollo hospital Hyd

- 5k per month ventilator production capacity now, soon to go up to 10k

- growing collaboration with private industry for production of ventilators, specific companies named

- N99 masks, higher-end than N 95 , developed, 1L manufactured, and provided to armed forces and Delhi police. Lakhs more under manufacture.

- body suits, modified from what DRDO already has for military, are being manufactured and supplied.

- IIT Hyderabad has also been working with DRDO for ventilators development

- many state governments in contact with DRDO for equipment needs, more being directed by health ministry to approach DRDO

- overall, confident of meeting equipment needs going forward

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 01:41

KLNMurthy wrote:
Karan M wrote:What is the forum's opinion on the mass movement of migrant laborers?
I am hoping it is a storm in a teacup because community transmission hasn't (hopefully) taken off

I think it is a huge risk factor and can push India into Italy-zone.

Modi directly appealed to these folks, asking them to stay where they are, and not infect near & dear in hometown. Clearly it went unheeded, and the situation is not helped with Harsh Mander, Tavleen Singh types screaming, “ayyayyo, they are poors onlee, see how they are walking because of bleddy Mudi”. Maybe it was a failure of prior planning at state level, or outright sabotage like Kejriwal putting them on buses to UP border.

I would like to see GoI issue a a clear “shelter-in-place” order and enforce it rigorously. No one can go “home” at this point, till further notice, even the “brothers and sisters stuck in foreign lands” won’t be transported “home” to India, no matter what the Supreme Court says. Everyone has to make the best of it, with generous help from governments and voluntary organizations like RSS.

The focus should be 100% on containing stage 3, community transmission, and treating patients.


Poor doesn't mean stupid. Most of these folks will have old parents or children or dependent relatives back in the village they would be worried to death about. In the current situation, they won't be convinced they will get the Govt promised food & shelter that easily. Even if it comes, won't they get infected in those gatherings? I'm sure the labour contractors who gang them up and bring to cities would have left them on their own the moment construction stops and their on hand savings will barely last a few days. How will they access the money some govts are promising? Remember this is what we call "unorganised sector". You think sarkar has an uptodate database of each labourer with identity verified and bank account confirmed? I seriously doubt that. Most of them won't have ATM cards to withdraw cash even if they have Jandhan accounts or such. No one walks hundreds of KMs with clothes on their back and savings in their pocket risking everything unless they have no choice. Even if these things were miraculously provided you can't expect them to abide unquestioningly for an unspecified amount of time setting aside all their constraints. This is a problem for which there are no easy solutions. We should stop bashing them and try to find NGOs that can come to their aid help.

As the saying goes "You walk a mile in my shoes..."

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sanjayc » 29 Mar 2020 01:44

^^^ You seem to be quite clueless about the devious politics behind this migration and how it was triggered

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 01:50

sanjayc wrote:^^^ You seem to be quite clueless about the devious politics behind this migration and how it was triggered


Please explain and provide some evidence. Else its just a CT like other CTs peecefool people peddle.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Rahul M » 29 Mar 2020 01:53

Sanjayc, it's a combination of factors. The devious politics might have been the immediate trigger but the ones amar mentioned are the fundamental ones. I think the PM missed a trick by not reassuring this section of people in his lockdown speech. People have a lot of trust in him. His reassurances would have carried weight.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Ambar » 29 Mar 2020 01:56

amar_p wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:I think it is a huge risk factor and can push India into Italy-zone.

We should stop bashing them and try to find NGOs that can come to their aid help.

As the saying goes "You walk a mile in my shoes..."


Dear Sir, the NGOs are trying their best in conditions perhaps not seen since the partition. Over 50k RSS shakas are distributing food as are thousands of BJP volunteers . Across India many BJP karyakartas are cooking and distributing food packages and groceries to those in need including the Police who have not had a break since 8 days . There is concerted effort in the opposition ruled states to create a mass hysteria and panic. Is it the state's responsibility or the center's to provide food,shelter and security for all ? On one hand Manish Sisodia says "everyone should remain where they are and the Delhi govt will provide them food,water,shelter" and in the next sentence he says "Delhi govt is running DTS buses to take the people to border towns". Ashok Gehlot is doing the same in RJ.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Mar 2020 01:58

About the migrant worker problem, my guess is that this will mainly be an issue in the poorer states that are close to or have large metros within reach. As such instead of trying to prevent migration, which might be impossible, GOI might have to systematize this....
1. Create safe routes for people to walk
2. Ensure that the folks therein get 3 meals and adequate supplies of basic necessities at way points where they are constantly educated on the need for social distancing.
3. Have religious leaders go on public fora asking citizens to bring forth generosity. In Maharashtra there is a yearly procession of Varkaris who travel on foot to Pandharpur and locals keep supplying these devotees their needs en route

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby DrRatnadip » 29 Mar 2020 02:09

vijayk wrote:one more question for Docs - Does asthma inhalers like albuterol early help avoid the pneumonia/breathing issues?

Not much.. It is broncodilater.. It increases diameter of airways.. in pneumonia problem is mostly due to accumulation of fluid in alveoli which are microscopic breathing units of lung.. using albuterol wont work more than placebo in such cases..
Some inhalers contain steroids.. which could increase susceptibility to infections
Last edited by DrRatnadip on 29 Mar 2020 02:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 29 Mar 2020 02:11

Chinese making money selling used kit to Netherland.... The country should be sanctioned.

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1243983975351271425

Not to mention, Turkey has given back useless testing kit..

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby DrRatnadip » 29 Mar 2020 02:13

Rahul M wrote:Docs working in India, or those who know medical professionals working in India, are you seeing a spike in pneumonia cases ?


No abnormal increase in pneumonia cases here in pune.. most cases in OPD are of sore throat and dry cough.. people are panicking it for COVID though.. it takes much effort to alleviate their fear..

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sudarshan » 29 Mar 2020 02:26

Rahul M wrote:Hi CyranoDB, welcome to brf.
Username has been changed to human sounding name as per forum rules. You can request one of your choice as long as it's a human name.
regards


Wot saar, not heard of Cyrano De Bergerac?

From my silly and cursory data analysis, ably supported by my silly and cursory data analysis skills, Italy is waltzing in the linear zone now. Spain, Germany, and France may be linear also. UK still blowing up like crazy. US shows no signs of slowing, eternally promising to linearize in a day or two.

If you look at AmberG's prediction far back in this thread, based on the 8-fold increase over a week's interval up to March 10th (from Tuesday, March 3rd), the prediction was for 8000 cases in the US by March 17th, and ~60,000 by March 24th. I was reasonably sure that we would not get to 60,000 by March 24th, and I was right, but not by much - AmberG's prediction turned out to be more accurate than mine. However, the rate has slowed considerably in the week since, and the US is most likely going to fall far short of another 8-fold increase to ~0.5 Million cases by March 31st. That's a good thing.

8-fold increase in a week translates to 35% increase per day. Right now it's more like 25% a day. Makes a huge difference when you compound that, and the rate (I think) will fall further in the next few days.

Dubey ji, yes, I've heard of sigmoidal functions, primarily in the context of neural networks. I think it's a great fit, when the rate of change of something is expected to start low, accelerate, then go linear, and eventually fall to zero. Which is what we have with these epidemics, the rate's got to fall to zero, at least when the epidemic runs out of new recruits to infect (given finite population size).
Last edited by sudarshan on 29 Mar 2020 02:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 29 Mar 2020 02:27

The biggest lesson from this spread in India is this:

It was mostly educated well to do, foreign returned morons, who have spread it around.
it is now a metropolitan, rich state like Delhi, which has potentially laid the seed for a spread in UP villages.

It was not the poor, who spread it. It was not the poor states like UP, Bihar who displayed irresponsibility.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 02:31

Ambar ji,
I don't doubt the Govt's intent or RSS and other NGOs contributions. In fact I think any other Govt would have done far less and created a far worse situation already. But migrations are real complex problems given the size scale and economic disparities and social structures in our country.

To share a different perspective, nearly 20% of well heeled Paris region folks (thats nearly 500,000) have migrated to secondary homes in the country side or onto small islands dotting the Atlantic coast. Unsurprisingly, instead of the usual welcome they get since they will be spending their €€€ in the local economy, they are being shunned and looked down upon by locals for the infection they may possibly bring. I have friends who have left for AirBnB homes "à la campagne" 2 weeks ago and have started feeling the pinch. Media is full of scathing articles calling it another type of social divide and lampoons of these people. By comparison most Indians migrating are doing it out of compulsion than stupidity.

But no matter where you are, since no one can foresee how long these lockdowns are likely to last, there will be more bad decisions, individually and collectively.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby A Sharma » 29 Mar 2020 02:31

Efforts of DRDO in nation’s fight against COVID-19

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has been tracking the spread of Coronavirus (COVID-19) since the world media started reporting its devastating impact in China’s Wuhan Province. The DRDO took a call in first week of March 2020 to enhance efforts to create counter measures to stop the spread of the disease in India. By then, the number of affected people in India had already crossed 30. It also started focusing on creating mass supply solutions of critical medical requirements, if COVID-19 becomes a crisis. As a result of focused approach, at present DRDO is ready with four different items ready to be deployed in ‘War against Corona’.

Hand sanitizer

Hand sanitizer being the basic instrument against spread of COVID-19 that has now been developed in-house at DRDO. By 3rd week of March, it was produced in sizable quantities and distributed to major offices and establishment within the capital. Approximately 4,000 litres of hand sanitizer has been provided to Indian Armed forces, Armed Forces Medical Corps, Defence Security Corps, 1,500 litres to Ministry of Defence, 300 litres to Parliament, and 500 litres to various security establishments and high offices to address sanitization issue at first to keep administration work without fear of contamination.

In the present scenario, Delhi Police (DP) is serving by managing law and order situation, hence to keep them safe at this point of time, DRDO has provided 20,000 three ply masks and 1,000 litres of hand sanitizers. In addition, DRDO has distributed hand sanitizers to DP at about 40 nakas all around Delhi.

The DRDO is ready to provide more hand sanitizers in large quantities to the concerned. Initially a DRDO lab, Defence Research & Development Establishment (DRDE), Gwalior has produced approximately 20,000 litres to cater initial requirements of its employees and government offices/ministries. In the meantime, DRDO identified a vendor with the WHO formulation with M/s Gwalior Alco Brew Pvt Ltd, Gwalior (DRDE Gwalior is providing technical support; scientists are positioned with the company the check the quality). Total capacity is 20,000 to 30,000 litres per day in 200-500 ml bottles. The cost is less than Rs 120/litre (including GST).

Ventilators

Since COVID-19 affects pulmonary functions, keeping in mind the futuristic requirement, Society for Biomedical Technology (SBMT) programme of DRDO has been modified to cater to the current situation. Defence Bio-Engineering & Electro Medical Laboratory (DEBEL), Bangalore (a DRDO lab) has identified a vendor (M/s Scanray Tech Pvt Ltd, Mysore) to produce critical care ventilator. It has been created by using existing technologies like breath regulators, pressure/flow sensors, etc. Presently, innovation is on to create ‘Multi patient ventilator’ wherein several patient can be supported by a single ventilator. This innovation is expected to be available within a week. Around 5,000 ventilators will be produces in the first month and 10,000 subsequently. The DRDO has identified local alternatives to supply of critical components. Already Secretary (Pharmaceuticals) has identified nine companies for design transfer to produce and Mr Anand Mahindra for fabrication of components. Each ventilator unit will cost around Rs four lakh.

N99 masks

Five layer N99 masks with two layers of nano mesh are very advanced. These are one of the critical times to stop spread of Corona. Its production vendors are M/s Venus Industries Mumbai, M/s IMTEC Kolkata. Capacity is 10,000 N99 masks per day. Material for these are is sourced from Ahmedabad Textile Industry's Research Association, which is already having plenty of government orders for N95 masks. The mask costs Rs 70 per piece.

Body Suits

Body suit is critical requirement for doctors, medical staff, sanitations workers, etc so that they are not contracted by COVID-19 during their work. Earlier, DRDO had developed this body suit for medical & paramedical staff to manage & evacuate the causalities in the event of radiological emergencies, which right now is converted as a full body suit to stop contamination. The suit is washable and has passed the ASTM International standards. The suit is widely tested by DRDO and other agencies and found suitable for the cause. M/s Frontier Protective Wear Pvt Ltd Kolkata, transfer of technology holder that is already working with Ministry of Textiles, and M/s Medikit Pvt Ltd Mumbai are producing 10,000 suits per day with some works continuity problems. Each suit costs Rs 7,000.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 02:35

sudarshan wrote:
Rahul M wrote:Hi CyranoDB, welcome to brf.
Username has been changed to human sounding name as per forum rules. You can request one of your choice as long as it's a human name.
regards


Wot saar, not heard of Cyrano De Bergerac?

Merci Monsieur Sudarshan, if CyranoDB can be retained, I'd be grateful.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Rahul M » 29 Mar 2020 02:45

Here I thought it was a reference to yet another of those nosql databases.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 02:55

Rahul M wrote:Here I thought it was a reference to yet another of those nosql databases.

Ahh the IT-VT instinct :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Rahul M » 29 Mar 2020 03:02

DrRatnadip wrote:
Rahul M wrote:Docs working in India, or those who know medical professionals working in India, are you seeing a spike in pneumonia cases ?


No abnormal increase in pneumonia cases here in pune.. most cases in OPD are of sore throat and dry cough.. people are panicking it for COVID though.. it takes much effort to alleviate their fear..

Thanks. If the situation hasn't gone out of hand in Pune, one of the early hotspots, there is still hope.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 29 Mar 2020 03:07

I am now thinking, it might be much easier to control the virus, if the spread happens in a village. The availability of mass transportation in large cities, is a prime source for the spread.

May be it is better the migrant worker moved in to villages. It is probably easier to handle 200 infected people across 200 villages, than 200 people in a city of millions.

If only there was a rapid result test kit. We could have tested these people before boarding the buses and if cleared, send them away.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 29 Mar 2020 03:14

If I list out the most effected places. Wuhan, New York, California, Madrid, London, Northern Italy (rich part) etc.. All cities.

I wonder if it was better off locking down just these cities, rather than entire countries...

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 03:14

Its extremely heartening to see DRDO, universities, research institutes, PSUs and private enterprises (sometimes with IP transfer from Govt Orgs) innovating rapidly and coming forward to produce testing kits, PPE materials and other vital supplies. We can be rightfully proud of this silent Swadeshi movement. Bravo !

We are building some capabilities that will be far reaching. When this epidemic dies down, Indian industry can become a fantastic source of such goods for many developing and developed countries.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 29 Mar 2020 03:21

nam wrote:If I list out the most effected places. Wuhan, New York, California, Madrid, London, Northern Italy (rich part) etc.. All cities.

I wonder if it was better off locking down just these cities, rather than entire countries...


Right. Unfortunately by the time they realised what was happening, clusters started forming in other Tier 2 & 3 cities, like the Italians found out. In France, clusters appeared almost simultaneously in eastern, south-western and southern regions and then Paris region caught on. The US had the opportunity about 6 weeks ago but the DangerousTroll would hear none of it.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Mar 2020 03:26

Rahul M wrote:Sanjayc, it's a combination of factors. The devious politics might have been the immediate trigger but the ones amar mentioned are the fundamental ones. I think the PM missed a trick by not reassuring this section of people in his lockdown speech. People have a lot of trust in him. His reassurances would have carried weight.

I listened to the speech, he did offer reassurance, spoke very plainly. Maybe it wasn’t enough, maybe local governments were less prepared than they should have been. And maybe there was an effort to sabotage by Kejriwal et al. Whatever it may be, it is useful to remember that nothing like this has ever happened before, no solution like this has ever been attempted before, not on this scale.

It means, even Modi would have been guessing what, how much, and how strongly he should have addressed this in his speech. It means central ministries would have been guessing how much micromanaging they should have been doing on the state-level efforts, not to speak of whether they even have enough skilled human resources to do that kind of micromanaging.

A thing like this depends for success on 100% of personnel down the chain of command taking ownership of their tasks and executing flawlessly, with imagination and creativity. That is impossible to achieve anywhere.

There will be slippages and screwups, missed aspects, like this one. Hopefully the personnel and managers handling this are more sensible and know how to mitigate the harm done and move forward, unlike those who, having no understanding of managing any kind of project, just bray on about how everything is terrible and people are suffering, etc.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Mar 2020 03:30

Self deleted
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 29 Mar 2020 03:43, edited 1 time in total.

Bart S
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Bart S » 29 Mar 2020 03:31

amar_p wrote:Its extremely heartening to see DRDO, universities, research institutes, PSUs and private enterprises (sometimes with IP transfer from Govt Orgs) innovating rapidly and coming forward to produce testing kits, PPE materials and other vital supplies. We can be rightfully proud of this silent Swadeshi movement. Bravo !

We are building some capabilities that will be far reaching. When this epidemic dies down, Indian industry can become a fantastic source of such goods for many developing and developed countries.


As they say, never waste a good crisis!

I think this drives home to a thick skinned GOI and babudom some home truths:
-RBI finally was dragged kicking and screaming away from it's stubborn and impractical focus on fiscal deficit and inflation vs the growth and stimulus that was long overdue.
-Existing regulations stifle such jugaad and innovation that Indians excel at and must be done away with
-Can't afford to rely on China for APIs, basic supplies etc. Derisking of supply chain and banning China as much as possible should be done
-WFH is a viable option for a large number of office employees and should be encouraged and incentivized. If nothing else, the beneficial impact on the environment is extremely welcome.
-Globe traveling yuppies and peaceful folks have been exposed as some of the most in-disciplined and irresponsible people. Protocols must be evolved an put in place for the future, that include confiscation of passports etc for people who do not comply.
-We need more digitization of not just identity but healthcare, tracking of population and movement etc
-Pandemic and epidemic management protocols are needed not just for some elite babus in some ivory tower, but at the state govt level and even at the pvt co level. For e.g Big Basket, Amazon etc should know in advance what PPE their delivery persons should be equipped with, and what the operational protocols are, and likewise how police and their agents interact smoothly to ensure that things keep running etc.
-Strict legal regulation required to prevent harassment of front line warriors (healthcare, airline etc) by moronic landlords and RWAs etc
-Purpose built medical trains can serve as a traveling AIIMS to cover various parts of the country that may not have the best hospitals
-Legal measures and penalties should be in place for people spreading fake news and panic

Mods: Could we perhaps have a thread to brainstorm the potential risks, and even more importantly the opportunities arising out of the COVID crisis and the new post-COVID world, for India as a whole, individual Indians and Indian entities?
Last edited by Bart S on 29 Mar 2020 03:48, edited 1 time in total.

KLNMurthy
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Mar 2020 03:34

nam wrote:The biggest lesson from this spread in India is this:

It was mostly educated well to do, foreign returned morons, who have spread it around.
it is now a metropolitan, rich state like Delhi, which has potentially laid the seed for a spread in UP villages.

It was not the poor, who spread it. It was not the poor states like UP, Bihar who displayed irresponsibility.

Yup, this is confirmation that the poor & unschooled are not the uncivilized, chaotic element of India, it’s quite the opposite, the better-off, educated are the savages, and the poor, so despised and pitied by the first element, sre the civilized ones.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Bart S » 29 Mar 2020 03:37

Meanwhile, this is encouraging, hope it is carried out:
Aditya Raj Kaul
@AdityaRajKaul
Over 1.5-2 lakh migrant workers who left New Delhi for different villages & districts of Uttar Pradesh this week would be now quarantined for two weeks in their villages/hometowns. Local administration has been instructed. Migrants to be identified. Infrastructure being prepared.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vimal » 29 Mar 2020 03:38

nam wrote:The biggest lesson from this spread in India is this:

It was mostly educated well to do, foreign returned morons, who have spread it around.
it is now a metropolitan, rich state like Delhi, which has potentially laid the seed for a spread in UP villages.

It was not the poor, who spread it. It was not the poor states like UP, Bihar who displayed irresponsibility.


Add to that Arab and Iran returned peacefools who refused to quarantine and continue to spread the disease.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Suraj » 29 Mar 2020 03:38

Rahul M wrote:Sanjayc, it's a combination of factors. The devious politics might have been the immediate trigger but the ones amar mentioned are the fundamental ones. I think the PM missed a trick by not reassuring this section of people in his lockdown speech. People have a lot of trust in him. His reassurances would have carried weight.

This has nothing to do with lack of reassurance. Modi *did* assure the poor and marginal demographic, and simultaneously asked that they not head back and potentially infect people in their hometowns.

However, between center , state and local administration, the level of effectiveness is not uniform or even on the same same wavelength. A state like KA wants to ensure its safety. Whereas Delhi is intent on trying to worsen the situation elsewhere by pushing people to move. Ideally, inter state passenger road transport should be halted, just as rail and air services have been . Each state ought to receive resources to distribute food and temporary shelter to the migrant population. We're only on day 4-5 of a 21 day lockdown. It can be done.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby ramana » 29 Mar 2020 05:16

Sure BartS.
Start a Post Covid World and India thread.

Put your post as first post.

Ramana

Need people to have hope and not just doom and gloom.
I too have been thinking about starting a thread.


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