Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2020 11:17

Didn't US supposedly lose all its Chinese sources sometime back ?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 31 Mar 2020 11:26

suryag wrote: did they let Trump saar know and he ignored it ?

That is supposedly what happened according to his detractors.

chola · Post by **chola** » 31 Mar 2020 11:30

suryag wrote:BTW, tell me a thing, lets assume that China hid information about the pandemic and everything about it, what were the famed intelligence agencies of the US doing?? Weren't they monitoring the situation ? or did they let Trump saar know and he ignored it ?

The truth they didn't even need the CIA. The chinis locked down a goddam city of 15M in January what other information do you need to know? It was infectious as chit. So the planning should have started then. Just plan for the worst which was to test as many people as possible like the Koreans. That was never done.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 31 Mar 2020 11:42

Let's face, the issue blew up only because the europe is completely sold out to to china and could not stop all flights from China. The world got infected from Italy and no one else. Half of Italy is owned by china and they are selling Chinese leather with the Italian brand name, something like MG cars. Italian leather bags nowadays are nothing but cheap Chinese bags you see in marts. Infact in Lombardy region, even clubs like inter Milan is owned by Chinese. I would blame Italy more than anyone else for this mess. They simply did not have the guts to stop all flights between Milan and Wuhan when the first case appeared in Wuhan.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 31 Mar 2020 11:49

Wuhan Virus: Chinese Animal Markets Reopened With Almost No Precautions
If true this means China is not worried about this place which is being peddled as the source of origin of COVID. This will add more power to the CT that the virus did not originate in the market but in a Chinese lab.

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 31 Mar 2020 13:08

The supply chains for e-commerce seem to have limped back some sense of normalcy. Got my BigBasket orders delivered yesterday. It seems people are seriously hoarding stuff. 10KG of Onions, 20KG of flour etc, hope its for a community purchase. Or I am understocking.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 31 Mar 2020 14:54

How Tablighi Jamaat emerged as the ‘largest known’ Covid-19 source in South Asia
This is going to be a real problem for India. Every state's police and health department now have the extra work load of identifying folks who attended this function (whicn now Delhi Govt. says was not sanctioned). And from what I know, members of these outfits are generally not very happy to reveal their travel details and even their associated with the organisation. The incident at Erode, TN seems to be just a sample.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 31 Mar 2020 14:59

1. Retd Keralite professor who attended Nizamuddin congregation dies of fever.
2. Man dies of Covid-19 at Trivandrum medical college, toll rises to two in Kerala. COVID-19 death in Pothencode: Full panchayat to undergo quarantine.
3. Strict lockdown in Kasaragod; people not allowed to step out, police to deliver essentials.
4. Karnataka willing to open Wayanad, Kannur borders; refuse to unblock Kasaragod border.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 31 Mar 2020 15:06

An excellent feature by French newspaper Lemonde depicting where over a 100 countries are today wrt "flattening the bell curve". Updated daily. Its in French but the graphs are self explanatory and very informative to see and follow.

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/ar ... 55770.html

Unforunately the graphs are not images that can be linked, so you have to follow the link to see the content.

nam · Post by **nam** » 31 Mar 2020 15:19

Sachin wrote:Karnataka willing to open Wayanad, Kannur borders; refuse to unblock Kasaragod border.

This is a prime example of when reality meets the claims of "dream state". There is a real possibility of furious reaction from the people in Mangalore area, if movement of people is allowed from Kerala. Northern kerala had fundamentally delegated it's medical care to Mangalore, during normal times. Now people in Daksin Kannada district do not want infected people flooding their region and hospital, fearful that local people will not have access to hospital.

Kasargoad is right next door and it is a major hotspot.

And Karnataka will not allow open access to it's second best medical facilities region to people of other states, when lot of it's other region don't have proper medical access. Every state will now guard this precious resource very firmly.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 31 Mar 2020 15:38

Looks like there is direction to route all suspected cases to the designated govt hospital to Managlore and the govt hospital will handle only the Karnataka states patients since the govt hospitals of a particular state is not mandated to provide care to entire Indian citizens. This looks like to be the work around for this problem.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 31 Mar 2020 15:39

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 31 Mar 2020 16:04

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 31 Mar 2020 16:13

My wife was trying to do a NEFT transaction for the special account PM Cares account. Though the special account is maintained at SBI SBI software (our account is with SBI) doesn't allow the transfer saying alpha characters are not permitted in the account identity. Has anyone tried intra SBI transfer?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 31 Mar 2020 16:29

ranneel wrote:I think Karnataka can kiss goodbye water from Kabini come monsoon

Don't think so it would be too easy as there are no big dams or anicuts which can stop the water's flow to Karnataka side. Secondly, a consumer state like Kerala will never be able to dictate terms to other producer states. Think about it, a two day stoppage of vegetables at the state's borders created big heartburn. It is always better for Kerala to actually think about having in house solutions for lots of her problems rather acting as old feudal lords of the olden days.

Avtar Singh · Post by **Avtar Singh** » 31 Mar 2020 16:33

chinese/chinese communists/communists in general ARE LIARS...
who would have thought it!!

a good summary with timeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSdQPtciBRg

he also covers "The Vile Economist" rag

and that goldman shyster Lord ONeil of chatham house slagging of India
on cnbc

nam · Post by **nam** » 31 Mar 2020 16:38

It is not just Kerala, but every state, which did not bother to invest enough in the health care system will have this problem. Kerala's dependency on Mlore is a prime example, of delegating the medicare job to another state.

As we have seen worldwide, states will now guard medical access for their people, with their life. The same effect will be seen b/w states in India.

nam · Post by **nam** » 31 Mar 2020 16:43

Based on the spike in the number of cases, in the past few days, these seems to the ones from 14-21th. I think we may have just about got the timing right. I expected the numbers to shoot up in the past 3 days. Looks like it is happening.

The next 14 days would allow us to find out all the hidden infection.

There could be regular lockdown - open - lockdown, based on the rate of increases.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 Mar 2020 17:16

Based on what I am seeing about Nizamuddin jamat.

All containment efforts have been defeated for the moment and the virus is in the community at large. In the next few days we will see a huge explosion of cases in India.

Let's pray that by the 14 of April the first wave will have peaked.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Mar 2020 17:21

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... qutGM.html

Telangana cut salaries of employees and retirees. I was expecting this to happen. Other states and center will follow soon.

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 17:28

sajo wrote: Question to Hakim's : how effective is plasma transfer from a recovered patient to one who's is reeling under one? How far should the disease have progressed in order for the doctors to try this? Is it one of the initial lines of treatment?

Plasma Transfer cannot treat #WuhanVirus infection. The End.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Mar 2020 17:33

SC asks Centre to curb fake news on coronavirus, set up portal within 24 hours for real-time info

The Centre told the apex court that the suggestion to sprinkle water and chemicals on migrants to sanitise them does not work scientifically and is not the right way

3 out of 10 moving from cities to villages may carry coronavirus, Centre tells SC

The SC bench said it will pass a detailed order regarding food, shelter, and medical aid to migrants...
The SC suggested to SG to rope in community leaders to prevevent panic and calm those in shelter homes....

Is there any other country in the world where a Supreme Court is busy giving instructions and advice to its Executive, on a daily basis?

Apparently the doctrine of separation of powers does not apply in India?

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 17:33

chola wrote: The truth they didn't even need the CIA. The chinis locked down a goddam city of 15M in January what other information do you need to know? It was infectious as chit. So the planning should have started then. Just plan for the worst which was to test as many people as possible like the Koreans. That was never done.

FYI
Cheen Sarkar issued a notice to Wuhan residents on Work from Home and Social Distancing on 8th September 2019(yeah 8th september ain't a typo), they sat on information denying the world till 23January 2020(count the days yourself).

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2020 17:36

Niran sir, do you have a source for that. This could be very useful.

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 17:37

sudarshan wrote:
vijayk wrote:https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr- ... ak-update/
Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak [UPDATES]
I just don't get this. Seems to be a cheap enough drug, also with enough history of use and relatively plentiful. Why do hospitals in NYC have to go through hell, and why do people have to desperately appeal for plasma donors, if this drug is working?

From reading on this thread, it seems that:

* The drug is pretty safe, doctors say so
* The drug is extremely dangerous, doctors say so
* The drug can really work, there are reasons for its antiviral properties, doctors say so
* The drug is no better than a placebo (not my words), at best it can block 10% of the receptors, doctors say so
* Combined with azythromycin, it is even better
* Combined with azythromycin, it is even more dangerous

If patients are at death's door with hours to live anyway, would this drug not be worth a try at that point?

a Guwahati resident died of Chloroquine piosoning 3 days ago.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 31 Mar 2020 17:38

Saw my family doctor here in France yesterday, he is practicing since 40+ years, an excellent, dedicated doctor who can reasonably claim he has seen it all (but won't!). He has read in detail the study published in a hurry by Pr Didier Raoult on Hydroxychloroquinone + Azithromycin and was very critical of it. The sample size is too small and results inconclusive. Being a renowned and respected researcher doesn't mean Raoult's instincts do not need proper testing protocols and validation. He deplored the highly mediated public debate between Raoult and French authorities; emotions of non-trained self proclaimed TV debate "experts" have no place in such a serious matter to be evaluated between doctors & scientists. He is very cautious about HCQ + Azm's efficiency to treat Covid19 since improper dosage can lead to cardiac arrhythmia, loss of vision and other distress. He is seeing some nutcases self medicating with this and then wailing for help as it goes wrong. We need a lot of data and a lot of further analysis & reviews before concluding one way or the other on HCQ+Azm.

Meanwhile, the French Govt has cautiously allowed HCQ+Azm administration on "compassionate grounds" (meaning when nothing else is working, so kind of as a last resort) with collegial review and agreement among the doctors treating the COVID19 patient, and the patient's consent.

Therefore, self medication or without a case by case validation by a hospital panel of doctors, use of HCQ+Azm must be seen as highly dangerous and must not be attempted.

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 17:39

Rahul M wrote:Niran sir, do you have a source for that. This could be very useful.

why do you think those who must know do not have the information? rest assured cheen goose is cooked waiting for the meal to come down to edible temperture.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Mar 2020 17:45

An Ru Oscar-2 class SSGN, the Orel is in quarantine after a civilian contractor passed it on.Two other vessels ,another sub and a support ship also quarantined at base. A few US navdn vessels including one or two CVs have experienced cases.The danger of the virus to both naval and merchanf shipping worldwide is a v.serious problem.For nuclear power navies with the crews of their SSBNs in particular. The IN must take the most extreme care that their bases which also contain civvy staff who do not live on the bases,do not get infected and pass it on.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 31 Mar 2020 17:49

niran wrote:
Rahul M wrote:Niran sir, do you have a source for that. This could be very useful.
why do you think those who must know do not have the information? rest assured cheen goose is cooked waiting for the meal to come down to edible temperture.

This 8nfo is not for "those who must know", it is for we normal people. Since you are so confident we like to see the source. As our understanding is this virus started in early december.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 31 Mar 2020 17:55

The FDA has just approved hydroxychloriquine plus azithromycin for treatment of hospitalized patients only. Saw it on national news (ABC) a few minutes ago, so it can't be fake news.

These days, there is so much misinformation that we are all very quick to label something as fake news if it does not fit in with our own thought process - we all suffer from a huge dose of 'congnitive dissonance' and 'confirmation bias', and I count myself in this category too.

It does not hurt to have an open mind. A lot about this virus is unknown and 'facts' fly fast and furious around the world. Like the business about Ibuprofen (and other NSAIDs) being harmful, but then news that perhaps the earlier reports were erroneous.

Using anti-malarials and antibiotics would offer a unique opportunity to study their efficacy - there is nothing that is guaranteed to work anyway, so why not try it. In our own two local hospitals - small, community ones, there are over a hundred patients in each. One of my partners and my PA are both positive. This is not the time to speculate whether something may work or not, this is the time to make some bold and aggressive decisions - of course with close monitoring.

manju · Post by **manju** » 31 Mar 2020 18:00

nam wrote:It is not just Kerala, but every state, which did not bother to invest enough in the health care system will have this problem. Kerala's dependency on Mlore is a prime example, of delegating the medicare job to another state.

As we have seen worldwide, states will now guard medical access for their people, with their life. The same effect will be seen b/w states in India.

It worked fine until Corona.. Mangaluru benefitted from all business until now.. when things are tought does not make sense to close doors..

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 18:10

madhu wrote:
niran wrote: why do you think those who must know do not have the information? rest assured cheen goose is cooked waiting for the meal to come down to edible temperture.
This 8nfo is not for "those who must know", it is for we normal people. Since you are so confident we like to see the source. As our understanding is this virus started in early december.

please read up Chinese Advisory, there are very many available on internet too, best place is to look into online versions of local newspapers. all are in Cheena language though

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 18:12

manju wrote:
nam wrote:It is not just Kerala, but every state, which did not bother to invest enough in the health care system will have this problem. Kerala's dependency on Mlore is a prime example, of delegating the medicare job to another state.

As we have seen worldwide, states will now guard medical access for their people, with their life. The same effect will be seen b/w states in India.
It worked fine until Corona.. Mangaluru benefitted from all business until now.. when things are tought does not make sense to close doors..

national epidemic law governs that every state look after its citizen, because Health as Law and Order is state subject. Ktaka did right Kerala wrong

Mollick.R · Post by **Mollick.R** » 31 Mar 2020 18:13

A noob puuch to the all member with medical background and to others also.

After reading about Ventilators in last one week or so, I came to know about following points (ready to be corrected)

Cost of a high end full feature TFTA Ventilator from biggies like Drager, GE Healthcare, Phillips , Hamilton Medical etc is around 10-15 lakh Rs/Unit.
Cost of mid range Ventilators with less TFTA features is some where 5-8 lakh Rs/Unit.
Cost of poor man's basic Ventilators (respiration support system) is somewhere around 2-4 lakh Rs/ Unit.

Now let us break down components of a Ventilator (as per my limited understanding of the machine)

1. A air pump/turbine/compressor system
2. Flow control sensors
3. Valves & Actuators to control and
4. Gas sensor(s) (do they have it

)
5. Some microprocessor(s)/micro controllers
6. One , Two or May be upto Three number LCD screens of 4 inch to 8 inch size to display various parameters of patient and machine itself
7. Some software (embedded RTOS ???) to control and coordinate between 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5, then display the results on 6.
8. Backup power (battery)
9. Some redundancies of critical component
10. Disposable piping etc coming contact with patient body.
11. High quality Plastic Housing/ enclosure for housing all components (size / dimensions no larger than a 200 lt refrigerator)

Maybe it's absolutely apple to orange comparison & doesn't makes sense at all, but still I'm tempted to ask.

Why this thing cost so much ??????
For 3 lakh Rs we get a Maruti Alto , for 15 lakh Rs we get a top end Nexon/Ertiga/Duster etc. Automobiles do have considerable amount of electronics & sensors (ABS/EBD/Traction Control/ Airbag Deployment system/ HVAC system/Fuel Injection & Engine control system/ Infotainment system-LCD Screens) & the automobiles have higher amount of metals & plastic/ rubber too.

Yes automobiles do have economics of sale and enjoy production runs of millions where as Ventilators may be using custom build components (processors/screens/ sensors etc) & only a few thousand of a specific model of Ventilator is manufactured each year.
But still ventilator's were invented in 1950s and except from late eighties or early nineties when more amount of electronics (micro processors) were put into the machines fundamentally there isn't any drastic change in design of the system itself.

Why it costs so much ???

Is it because of design IP / patents & disproportionate profiting by a handful of the Western Gora Sahib owned companies ?
What I'm missing here ???

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 31 Mar 2020 18:20

Sachin wrote:
ranneel wrote:I think Karnataka can kiss goodbye water from Kabini come monsoon
Don't think so it would be too easy as there are no big dams or anicuts which can stop the water's flow to Karnataka side. Secondly, a consumer state like Kerala will never be able to dictate terms to other producer states. Think about it, a two day stoppage of vegetables at the state's borders created big heartburn. It is always better for Kerala to actually think about having in house solutions for lots of her problems rather acting as old feudal lords of the olden days.

I don't think that anybody from neighboring states has a problem with Kerala per se, just that they are worried about the out of control 'peaceful' people from Kasargod.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 31 Mar 2020 18:27

amar_p wrote:Saw my family doctor here in France yesterday, he is practicing since 40+ years, an excellent, dedicated doctor who can reasonably claim he has seen it all (but won't!). He has read in detail the study published in a hurry by Pr Didier Raoult on Hydroxychloroquinone + Azithromycin and was very critical of it. The sample size is too small and results inconclusive. Being a renowned and respected researcher doesn't mean Raoult's instincts do not need proper testing protocols and validation. He deplored the highly mediated public debate between Raoult and French authorities; emotions of non-trained self proclaimed TV debate "experts" have no place in such a serious matter to be evaluated between doctors & scientists. He is very cautious about HCQ + Azm's efficiency to treat Covid19 since improper dosage can lead to cardiac arrhythmia, loss of vision and other distress. He is seeing some nutcases self medicating with this and then wailing for help as it goes wrong. We need a lot of data and a lot of further analysis & reviews before concluding one way or the other on HCQ+Azm.

Meanwhile, the French Govt has cautiously allowed HCQ+Azm administration on "compassionate grounds" (meaning when nothing else is working, so kind of as a last resort) with collegial review and agreement among the doctors treating the COVID19 patient, and the patient's consent.

Therefore, self medication or without a case by case validation by a hospital panel of doctors, use of HCQ+Azm must be seen as highly dangerous and must not be attempted.

Did you see news from yesterday (I think) stating that Dr. Raoult has updated his study (which initially had a very small sample size) to cover new data for about a 100 patients (still not double-blind, randomized peer reviewed yada yada, but a much bigger sample size) and the results/conclusions are broadly the same, i.e the drug combo has potential in patients under medical advice.

ICMR seems to broadly agree with that direction.

Also, let us not conflate some irresponsible people self-medicating with disastrous results, with the use of the drug combo in a hospital environment with the proper monitoring and medical care for actual patients.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 Mar 2020 18:27

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/30/dr- ... -hospital/

Dr. William Grace: ‘Thanks to hydroxychloroquine, we have not had a death in our hospital.’

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr- ... ak-update/

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak [UPDATES]

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 31 Mar 2020 18:35

Mollick.R wrote:
Maybe it's absolutely apple to orange comparison & doesn't makes sense at all, but still I'm tempted to ask.

Why this thing cost so much ??????
Why it costs so much ???

Is it because of design IP / patents & disproportionate profiting by a handful of the Western Gora Sahib owned companies ?
What I'm missing here ???

Simple answer is that medical validation and certification is extremely tough and stringent and it is a very long and arduous process to get your product approved for sale, and once you do it is hard for some competitor to quickly challenge you. For example a manufacturing line for medical devices (mind you, low-end testing devices and not even medicines or anything that could threaten someone's life if it malfunctions) requires almost a couple of years to setup, and massive data collection and retention requirements on every single component that goes into it etc. Also it requires (in comparison with other industries) greater capital, patience and R&D effort, which generally means that trader-mindset people find easier ways to make money instead. This results in an oligopoly of sorts, with the associated anti-competitive features.

The part about Western Gora Sahib countries is probably only partly true. Chinese companies are some of the biggest manufacturers of ventilators and a lot of top hospitals companies buy Chinese ventilators. There are also a couple of established Indian companies in the space, though how their products stack up and how much of their components and IP are local, I do not know.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 31 Mar 2020 18:37

CDC officially recommends it even for children.

https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/travelers/drugs.html#tabs-1-2
https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/new_info/2020/chloroquine.html

It is safe enough as a malaria prophylaxis, and safe enough for the patients of rheumatoid arthritis, lupus etc.

And yet it is so dangerous that TDS sufferers are threatening doctors and pharmacists of administrative action:-

Michigan’s doctors fight coronavirus, and governor's office

Kathy Hoekstra | The Detroit NewsUpdated 7:55 a.m. IST Mar. 27, 2020

[..]

But if you live in Michigan, and you or a loved one is infected with this potentially lethal disease, you’re out of luck.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs literally threatened all doctors and pharmacists in the state who prescribe or dispense hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19.The agency’s March 24 letter warns physicians and pharmacists of professional consequences for the prescribing of hydroxychloroquine (and chloroquine). Beyond the rational recommendation against hoarding as production of this medication needs to be ramped up, the letter deviates into open threats of “administrative action” against the licenses of doctors that prescribe hydroxychloroquine.The letter also instructs pharmacists to ignore physician orders for this medication. Due to the debate over a pharmacist’s right to refuse to fill medications that go against their religious beliefs, this could place pharmacists in the unprecedented position of being told that they must fill prescriptions that violate their “conscience (religious belief)” but must not fill prescriptions to treat COVID-19.

Even worse, the letter indicates health care providers are “required to report” their fellow physicians who are prescribing these medications. This draconian measure carries ominous Gestapo-like overtones of neighbor reporting neighbor to “authorities.”

During a time of crisis, in which physicians continue to see patients despite not having enough protective gear, this threatening, authoritarian stance from our governor is counterproductive at best.What makes this directive more of a head-scratcher is that the same day the state issued its threatening nastygram to Michigan’s health care providers, Whitmer’s counterpart in New York started clinical trials of the very same drugs.

With his state now the nation’s pandemic epicenter, and with the blessing and help of the president and FDA, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo brought in 70,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine, 10,000 doses of Zithromax and 750,000 doses of chloroquine.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2020/03/26/opinion-michigans-doctors-fight-coronavirus-and-governors-office/2922272001/
[..]

niran · Post by **niran** » 31 Mar 2020 19:04

Mollick.R wrote:
Why this thing cost so much ??????

google for Respiration Physiology pay attention to FIO2, PEEP, CPAP for full understanding.
those cheap ones currently everykampany and their dog boast to have invented waiting for approval are just Oxygen pushing pumps or in a techinal term CPR aide. mid range ventilators are Anasthetic ventilators used by an Anasthesia folks in an operation room it only can mix air oxygen drugs and push into lungs. In ARDS full fledge ventilators needed which can mix calculate the volume and time the push(most important factor) like during start of inspiraton or 1/2 half of inspiration or end of inspiration or start of expiration or mid expiration or end expiration, similarly suction of pushed air has to be perfectely timed too. these come with a price.