Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

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DrRatnadip
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by DrRatnadip »

madhu wrote:DrRatnadip sir,
whats your opinion about use of splitter for ventilator? i see that FDA has approved it for COVID19 patients. The reason i am asking is my friend owns a small 3D printer. thought of creating one and test.
i had floated this idea in my company when they asked for ideas. however one of the guy sent me a link that objects use of one ventilator to multiple people. here is the link.
the problem being a mechanical engineer i have no idea about that standard and what are the requirement that i need to comply with.
I have never used splitters.. But obvious problems are
1) The air will go to more compliant lung...
2)the one who is away in circuiy will get less fio2 bt less removal of co2
3)Theorotical risk of mixing two virus strain ..which may pose threat..if spreads
4) risk of cross infection of other pathogen should be There

It may be a solution in desperate times but if one pt has better chance of survival venti should be given to that pt..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by pgbhat »

https://twitter.com/epigiri/status/1245112071135649794
To be successful in tackling #covid19india,
@tarunb20
we urge for review of containment measures by the PM
@PMOIndia
of each state. We propose a syndromic approach as the way forward for containment measures. We plead to use #techn…https://lnkd.in/eUnQFXi
Our next challenge is the containment of Covid-19. India’s inability to effectively detect and isolate cases hinders this process. Instead, we need what we call syndromic approach. Consider every case having fever, cough, tiredness or difficulty in breathing as that of Covid-19. This can, with or without testing, limit the virus’ spread.
DrRatnadip
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by DrRatnadip »

pgbhat wrote:https://twitter.com/epigiri/status/1245112071135649794
To be successful in tackling #covid19india,
@tarunb20
we urge for review of containment measures by the PM
@PMOIndia
of each state. We propose a syndromic approach as the way forward for containment measures. We plead to use #techn…https://lnkd.in/eUnQFXi
Our next challenge is the containment of Covid-19. India’s inability to effectively detect and isolate cases hinders this process. Instead, we need what we call syndromic approach. Consider every case having fever, cough, tiredness or difficulty in breathing as that of Covid-19. This can, with or without testing, limit the virus’ spread.
There are so many patients cough , fever ,tiredness.. Considering everybody as COVID 19 will consume significant efforts, money and manpower.. Labs have to test other diseases too .. We have to treat other patients too.. Giving too much attention to COVID will increase morbidity and mortality due to other causes including TB , non communicable diseases and even hunger..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by pgbhat »

DrRatnadip wrote:
There are so many patients cough , fever ,tiredness.. Considering everybody as COVID 19 will consume significant efforts, money and manpower.. Labs have to test other diseases too .. We have to treat other patients too.. Giving too much attention to COVID will increase morbidity and mortality due to other causes including TB , non communicable diseases and even hunger..
Doctor,
Given our population how would this work out? Does this mean people have to suck it up with social distancing and reach out to government hospitals in case their condition worsens? Otherwise home quarantine? Also is this not a great time to bring in reforms in government hospitals and encourage a move towards "public" insurance model instead of mostly "private" insurance model? Public health and private hospitals do not seem to go along well.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by kvraghav »

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/ ... -to-c.html
Looks like Kerala do not have the milk processing unit in the state owned milk federation and neither any private players doing this. They are dependent on Tamil Nadu for this. Is this state administration doing anything other than schools till 10th standard and propaganda?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by sudarshan »

Interesting article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-020-0148-4

Questions to doctors:

* What is this LYM% number?
* Can this be boosted through treatment?
* If so, is it going to help, i.e., is it likely to be the cause of the severe disease, or is it more like a symptom?
DrRatnadip
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by DrRatnadip »

pgbhat wrote:
DrRatnadip wrote:
There are so many patients cough , fever ,tiredness.. Considering everybody as COVID 19 will consume significant efforts, money and manpower.. Labs have to test other diseases too .. We have to treat other patients too.. Giving too much attention to COVID will increase morbidity and mortality due to other causes including TB , non communicable diseases and even hunger..
Doctor,
Given our population how would this work out? Does this mean people have to suck it up with social distancing and reach out to government hospitals in case their condition worsens? Otherwise home quarantine? Also is this not a great time to bring in reforms in government hospitals and encourage a move towards "public" insurance model instead of mostly "private" insurance model? Public health and private hospitals do not seem to go along well.
I dont exactly know sir.. what I know is testing millions of patients for COVID if they have such trivial and common complaints is very costly.. and patients will need repeated testing as they may become positive after test..
Gradual withdrawal of quarantine with releasing least susceptible young population (fortunately we have it abundant)
in community and keeping away elderly population from public places is one solution.. But this need total public support and education especially second part.. I have seen many elderly pts in OPD boasting that they are not scared of death and all.. Poor families where elderlies can not be separated can be given temporary shelters.. But again this in mammoth task..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Arun.prabhu »

The focus on the tests is pretty hard to understand when up to 60% of the infected show no symptoms and do not qualify for the tests. Better to ignore the tests - which serve no purpose than to highlight the fear in people's hearts at this time - and to start focusing on treating symptoms, keeping patients alive and getting production of necessary medical equipments, drugs and accessories in order.
DrRatnadip wrote:
pgbhat wrote:
Doctor,
Given our population how would this work out? Does this mean people have to suck it up with social distancing and reach out to government hospitals in case their condition worsens? Otherwise home quarantine? Also is this not a great time to bring in reforms in government hospitals and encourage a move towards "public" insurance model instead of mostly "private" insurance model? Public health and private hospitals do not seem to go along well.
I dont exactly know sir.. what I know is testing millions of patients for COVID if they have such trivial and common complaints is very costly.. and patients will need repeated testing as they may become positive after test..
Gradual withdrawal of quarantine with releasing least susceptible young population (fortunately we have it abundant)
in community and keeping away elderly population from public places is one solution.. But this need total public support and education especially second part.. I have seen many elderly pts in OPD boasting that they are not scared of death and all.. Poor families where elderlies can not be separated can be given temporary shelters.. But again this in mammoth task..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by sudarshan »

DrRatnadip wrote:I have seen many elderly pts in OPD boasting that they are not scared of death and all..
If they are Hindus, ask them if they're ok with facing their next life with the consequences of having passed on the disease to some other vulnerable person, and they will fall in line pretty quickly.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by pgbhat »

DrRatnadip wrote: I dont exactly know sir.. what I know is testing millions of patients for COVID if they have such trivial and common complaints is very costly.. and patients will need repeated testing as they may become positive after test..
Gradual withdrawal of quarantine with releasing least susceptible young population (fortunately we have it abundant)
in community and keeping away elderly population from public places is one solution.. But this need total public support and education especially second part.. I have seen many elderly pts in OPD boasting that they are not scared of death and all.. Poor families where elderlies can not be separated can be given temporary shelters.. But again this in mammoth task..
Hmm just wondering on scalable strategy.. does having antibody testing help here to mitigate the spread in some form and reduce retesting using RT-PCR?
Last edited by pgbhat on 01 Apr 2020 20:49, edited 1 time in total.
DrRatnadip
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by DrRatnadip »

sudarshan wrote:Interesting article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-020-0148-4

Questions to doctors:

* What is this LYM% number?
* Can this be boosted through treatment?
* If so, is it going to help, i.e., is it likely to be the cause of the severe disease, or is it more like a symptom?
Lymphocyte percentage.. Its percent of lymphocytes (type of white blood cell) in total white blood cells.. Lymphocytes are primary responders against viral infection and some other infections like TB..so their count is expected to rise when body is trying to get rid of viral infection.. lymphopenia is decreased count and it may indicate increased destruction of them by viral load or overall bone marrow supression .. It is omnious sign often seen in rapidly detoriating patients..
There is no use of boosting them..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by DrRatnadip »

sudarshan wrote:
DrRatnadip wrote:I have seen many elderly pts in OPD boasting that they are not scared of death and all..
If they are Hindus, ask them if they're ok with facing their next life with the consequences of having passed on the disease to some other vulnerable person, and they will fall in line pretty quickly.
Indian Doctors can scare anybody..Nothing to worry on this front.. :D
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by sudarshan »

DrRatnadip wrote:
sudarshan wrote:Interesting article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-020-0148-4

Questions to doctors:

* What is this LYM% number?
* Can this be boosted through treatment?
* If so, is it going to help, i.e., is it likely to be the cause of the severe disease, or is it more like a symptom?
Lymphocyte percentage.. Its percent of lymphocytes (type of white blood cell) in total white blood cells.. Lymphocytes are primary responders against viral infection and some other infections like TB..so their count is expected to rise when body is trying to get rid of viral infection.. lymphopenia is decreased count and it may indicate increased destruction of them by viral load or overall bone marrow supression .. It is omnious sign often seen in rapidly detoriating patients..
There is no use of boosting them..
Thanks for the response. At least it should be useful to predict who needs intensive treatment, then.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

brar_w wrote:
Karan M wrote:Even for a quarantine facility, the above is not ideal. The point of quarantine is to quarantine you from others who are at risk due to you, and also quarantine you from them. The point is to not get symptomatic Covid at all.
This is an overflow set up for non acute positive COVID 19 patients. This could be patients who test positive, are hospitalized at one point or another from it or any other complication but have not yet deteriorated to a point where they need higher level of care or those who can be shifted down from an ICU or a step down facility. These types of overflow facilities are not going to be treated as either shared spaces for COVID 19 and non COVID 19 patients or as just pure quarantine facilities where the homeless can go (regardless of their COVID 19 diagnosis) to to comply with a stay at home restrictions. Those naturally would have to be designed differently. They are building these across America using the National Guard and the military field hospital and logistical equipment. Others have built similar set ups as well.Patients will be sent from the hospital to these facilities to make room in the hospital for more critical patients, or in some cases positive patients may directly be moved here if they don't have another place to go and/or are at an elevated risk for hospitalization. What Assam has done is in line what others around the world have done in response to the same anticipated issue of positive patients saturating hospital beds.

New York's Javits Center is similarly built using the same equipment from the NG but they've added a screen but it too will be used just for positive non-acute cases. The US Army Corps of engineers is building more technical capability, such as negative pressure rooms more akin to an ICU, in hotel rooms student dorms in the University systems in some of the impacted cities. But that is a 7-10 day or longer process given the legal and logistical work required.

https://youtu.be/csfCKuy5HH8?t=26


Javits convention center in NYC -

Image

London and other major cities are building these as well and it will be needed when the hospitals begin to get flooded with + COVID19 patients across the spectrum of symptoms.
All these work only in so far some sort of herd immunity is sought to be created which ignores the fact that there may be multiple strains of viruses floating around and reinfection is very much possible. The screen wont work against micro-droplets being circulated by ventilation. Masks can work only insofar they don't become vectors for reinfection but will themselves be in short supply.

The basic issue is infrastructural not whether the above sort of setup in any country is an ideal approach, its clearly not. In fact individual quarantining may be even better using their own resources but as many people have shown, they lack the societal courtesy to do the right thing and hence such measures.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

Every bloody country had this happen. Every other country. Including India whose sold-out journos most of them wont even report this. Simple example - ordered a few masks off of Amazon, the seller was a whole sale retailer, there was clearly no shortage of supply. A week later reports emerged of chinese teams in delhi and elsewhere doing mass purchase, overnight the entire supply of the higher end N95 masks from MNC vendors was gone. Only items left were desi-vendors whose supplies got taken out post our desi guys panicking and purchasing.

The Chinese behavior during this entire crisis has been akin to locusts. Many didnt just mass-purchase out of necessity but to resell back for a profit. This is what's being discovered in Europe.
Rampy wrote:
anmol wrote:
Chinese propaganda machine has started a new play, i got messages to donate 100 masks for NYC for $270 and all of them are shipped from China. First ship things out and now get your market ready by asking know idiots and buy and donate
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by hanumadu »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

2,361 evacuated from nizamuddin markaz. 617 showing symptoms are hospitalized while the "rest are home quarantined". Shouldn't they be hospitalized too? They are almost certain to break home quarantine. We only have two more weeks to control the infection or else the lock down has to be extended. In total more than 8000 seems to have attended the 'congregation'. Imagine tracing all of them when they are not even willing to come forward to identify themselves and then their contacts. My blood is boiling at that POS quam.

How did so many people fit in one mosque? Sounds disgusting even to think about it.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

Suraj wrote:
Karan M wrote: Yes, but you need more spacing and physical separation, so that one individual doesnt infect everyone.
That depends on whether it's a quarantine facility for those who are asymptomatic, or a facility to hold those who are already exhibiting symptoms that need bed-based care.

The picture suggests the latter, which means the lack of physical separation isn't really meaningful. Those who have been potentially affected but are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic should by procedure stay in isolation in their own homes, rather than being in any sort of environment - with or without 6ft distancing, where they could be contagious.

As such, I don't see much wrong with that picture.
Asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic patients also need to be insulated from each other given the nature of this disease.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926929
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-outbreak

Otherwise we can have one severely infected guy whose viral load develops even further, infecting others heavily and re-infecting those who would have otherwise got better.

Plus there are concerns of different cv strains which may also cause an issue (I hope not).

I have added a video below of the micro-droplets issue which is a real challenge with these kind of facilities with stagnant air.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by SRoy »

Lock down is going to get extended, looking at the infection rate for last few days and today.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

hanumadu wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

2,361 evacuated from nizamuddin markaz. 617 showing symptoms are hospitalized while the "rest are home quarantined". Shouldn't they be hospitalized too? They are almost certain to break home quarantine. We only have two more weeks to control the infection or else the lock down has to be extended. In total more than 8000 seems to have attended the 'congregation'. Imagine tracing all of them when they are not even willing to come forward to identify themselves and then their contacts. My blood is boiling at that POS quam.

How did so many people fit in one mosque? Sounds disgusting even to think about it.
This is my biggest concern with these large scale quarantine facilities with people packed right next to each other. Stagnant air supply, p!ss poor hygiene habits (many openly clear their throat), constant coughing (which is a factor of the disease itself) and you are set up for a bad scenario.

Please see this video - I encourage everyone to see it. Even if you have the seasonal flu or cold, seeing this may make you re-evaluate.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by chanakyaa »

Chinese scientists seeking potential COVID-19 treatment find 'effective' antibodies
A team of Chinese scientists has isolated several antibodies that it says are “extremely effective” at blocking the ability of the new coronavirus to enter cells, which eventually could be helpful in treating or preventing COVID-19...

The group has partnered with a Sino-U.S. biotech firm, Brii Biosciences, in an effort “to advance multiple candidates for prophylactic and therapeutic intervention”, according to a statement by Brii.
...(more)
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Arun.prabhu »

The govt has to juggle the risk of civil unrest with containment. I wouldn't be so sure.
SRoy wrote:Lock down is going to get extended, looking at the infection rate for last few days and today.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by brar_w »

Karan M wrote:All these work only in so far some sort of herd immunity is sought to be created which ignores the fact that there may be multiple strains of viruses floating around and reinfection is very much possible. The screen wont work against micro-droplets being circulated by ventilation. Masks can work only insofar they don't become vectors for reinfection but will themselves be in short supply.
This is the only option for 99.9% of the areas where you expect an apex within 7, 10 or 14 days. Hence cities all around the world, with advise from their health officials, are doing exactly this. You have to buy or build hundreds if not thousands (or tens of thousands) of ventilators and then build make shift ICU like capacity while also on boarding retired healthcare professionals to provide the service. Then you have to stratify the hospitalized population based on acuity and triage them appropriately. This is an excellent way to do that.

If this wasn't being done here, it would have been done in hospitals which are even less adequately prepared to handle it (lining up cots in hallways and other common space). It is unfortunate, but in order to minimize the number of deaths you have no other option..be it London, Paris, New York, or Wuhan. Higher level resources have to go to creating capacity to support higher acuity patients who have a higher likelihood of dying without an intervention. Very sad..but that's all that can be done in such short notice while also prioritizing other resources. Better than sending them home to die.
Last edited by brar_w on 01 Apr 2020 21:51, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by nam »

SRoy wrote:Lock down is going to get extended, looking at the infection rate for last few days and today.
We don't know yet. It has just been 7 days.

The good thing is the increase in the infection rate is after 7 days from the lockdown.

We will know early next week. However GoI might extend it for another 7 days.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

brar w wrote:This is the only option for 99.9% of the areas where you expect an apex within 7, 10 or 14 days. Hence cities all around the world, with advise from their health officials, are doing exactly this. You have to buy or build hundreds if not thousands (or tens of thousands) of ventilators and then build make shift ICU like capacity while also on boarding retired healthcare professionals to provide the service. Then you have to stratify the hospitalized population based on acuity and triage them appropriately. This is an excellent way to do that.

If this wasn't being done here, it would have been done in hospitals which are even less adequately prepared to handle it (lining up cots in hallways and other common space). It is unfortunate, but in order to minimize the number of deaths you have no other option..be it London, Paris, New York, or Wuhan. Higher level resources have to go to creating capacity to support higher acuity patients who have a higher likelihood of dying without an intervention. Very sad..but that's all that can be done in such short notice while also prioritizing other resources. Better than sending them home to die.
I think one thing which hasnt been adequately explored is using unoccupied flats and real-estate for the mildly symptomatic/asymptomatic patients and their mass quarantine.

In India at least, there are countless apartments where you can via Govt decree, take them over for a period of time, and set them up for relatively spacious quarantine. You don't need ventilators and ICU like capacity for the above category of asymptomatic or mildly-symptomatic patients - you need individual rooms and (hopefully) restrooms but at least by giving them individual rooms with open ventilation, you automatically reduce the viral load which is aerosolized/ via micro-droplets. If they use a common restroom, again, that can have a mandate for constant sanitization and then ventilation before usage by anyone else. This is anyday better than 1000 beds next to each other.

This is safe for them and safe for society.

You can follow the tent approach for negative pressure in large football field size stadiums for the highly infected patients who already have a very high viral load - if you can't fit the existing infrastructure to the standardized layout in commercial housing which has its panels already laid in and too many open spaces/vents which can't be managed. Then you move to individual tents for the high risk patients with the worst symptoms. Again centralization in one area allows you to centralize vs distributing 10 beds in each hospital, pool resources, trained personnel.

Here, you can pool the ventilators, the staff with the best PPE, the monitoring, ventilators etc.
In most countries, the general wards don't even have a negative pressure environment. Many hospitals run off a centralized AC which though anti-virus scrubbers are claimed, their efficacy isn't going to be tested at such short notice.
Put up separate beds in an ICU, you risk all the patients.
The above is an easier option but for the fact these tents and other gear are also usually meant for CBRN type scenarios and not easily available. I won't be surprised if US vendors have shifted even their production to China.
In India, CBRN gear is made locally, but capacities are of the order of 1000's per day, not millions (given the Indian population size, if the need to scale up capacity hasn't stil been realized..).
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by hanumadu »

Karan M wrote:
hanumadu wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

2,361 evacuated from nizamuddin markaz. 617 showing symptoms are hospitalized while the "rest are home quarantined". Shouldn't they be hospitalized too? They are almost certain to break home quarantine. We only have two more weeks to control the infection or else the lock down has to be extended. In total more than 8000 seems to have attended the 'congregation'. Imagine tracing all of them when they are not even willing to come forward to identify themselves and then their contacts. My blood is boiling at that POS quam.

How did so many people fit in one mosque? Sounds disgusting even to think about it.
This is my biggest concern with these large scale quarantine facilities with people packed right next to each other. Stagnant air supply, p!ss poor hygiene habits (many openly clear their throat), constant coughing (which is a factor of the disease itself) and you are set up for a bad scenario.

Please see this video - I encourage everyone to see it. Even if you have the seasonal flu or cold, seeing this may make you re-evaluate.

There is no other choice. Frankly if the mullahs end up infection to each other, I have no issue with it.
But the goal of mass quarantine is to prevent the rapid spread of the virus among the general populace. It's about flattening the curve. In the process, some who are healthy might get infected in the quarantine. Unfortunately, it's unavoidable.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by hanumadu »

https://twitter.com/ManMundra/status/12 ... 18976?s=20
Manish Mundra
@ManMundra
I will still close my eyes and work for everyone irrespective of religion. But it’s becoming tough day by day. This one sided narrative of secularism is suffocating. They are pushing me in the corner. At least come forward and criticize for what is wrong!
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by suryag »

I have seen the personal hygiene practised in mosques(most of you would have too) and that could be a major reason for the mass infection
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by brar_w »

Karan, this is being done in NY. About 10,000 rooms would be converted by the end of April. Student accommodation (rooms and dorms) is being used as are hotel rooms and other government owned properties. Its just that it is a slightly longer process because you have to sign leases and then convert them to the level of care that is needed (from simple beds for sub-acute patients to those who need ventilators). Have the students in larger Indian cities been asked to vacate? If so this could be applied there as well especially in government institutions where taking them over will be very easy. But that too will only be for the higher acuity patients in case the problem explodes like it is doing elsewhere. Probably tens of thousands of additional beds are going to be needed, in NY for example, when the number of active cases climbs to mid 6 figures.

Cities like NY will need tens of thousands of both types of capacity. Ventilators and ICU like facilites, and large areas where they can keep the less critically ill. The alternate is to use hospital wards and common spaces. As the picture below shows those too don't isolate patients. There is just no option. It is freighting to imagine what larger cities will have to do if this gets as bad there.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/03 ... &auto=webp
Last edited by brar_w on 01 Apr 2020 22:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

hanumadu wrote:There is no other choice. Frankly if the mullahs end up infection to each other, I have no issue with it.
But the goal of mass quarantine is to prevent the rapid spread of the virus among the general populace. It's about flattening the curve. In the process, some who are healthy might get infected in the quarantine. Unfortunately, it's unavoidable.
How does one "flatten the curve" by possibly increasing the severity of infection amongst those lightly infected? The mass infection amongst these guys will still overwhelm the medical infra - yes, they don't mass spread in the wider community but they themselves may end up doing so via infecting the medical staff.

These mass quarantine camps may end up becoming recreating the scenario in which those "Tablighi jamat" dimwits got infected - theirs was by wilful disobedience, ignorance. Here, we have something else.
The only caveat I can see is we have deployed these mass quarantine camps for folks coming in from abroad - rates of infection there have been low. However, in most cases there weren't any symptomatic folks. Two questions remain:

1. If herding a bunch of mildly symptomatic folks together actually leads to a neutral outcome (i.e. it doesn't worsen).
2. If this doesn't lead to cross-infection with different viral strains

Typically all these require detailed research but at a time like this we can apply rough common-sensical thumb rules given available information about microdroplets and take measures like the real-estate one.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

brar_w wrote:Karan, this is being done in NY. About 10,000 rooms would be converted by the end of April. Student accommodation (rooms and dorms) is being used as are hotel rooms and other government owned properties. Its just that it is a slightly longer process because you have to sign leases and then convert them to the level of care that is needed (from simple beds for sub-acute patients to those who need ventilators). Have the students in larger Indian cities been asked to vacate? If so this could be applied there as well especially in government institutions where taking them over will be very easy. But that too will only be for the higher acuity patients in case the problem explodes like it is doing elsewhere. Probably tens of thousands of additional beds are going to be needed, in NY for example, when the number of active cases climbs to mid 6 figures.
We need to do something similar - I think this entire convert a stadium to one large camp with poor ventilation is just another problem which we haven't realized, though I will continue to dig for evidence to the contrary (and why not - it would be good if I am mistaken).
fanne
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by fanne »

Guys, whoever is reading this and whoever can get this to top management. Absolutely important.
3 places that flatten the curve had one thing common and other countries that have not flatten do not have this - Everyone is wearing the mask, both sick and non-sick, symptomatic and non-symptomatic.
Japan has the same old population distribution as Italy, and was second country to get infected after China. It is not as bad because they wear masks in general to avoid common flue, they double downed this time.
Wearing masks mean every time/everywhere except when at home and among non positive people. (Definitely in office, basically when out of own house).

South korea too- watch this video (in general a very good video, but watch after 15 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU

Czech republic is one that is doing good in Europe, it has nothing different than it neighbors, it maybe in many ways at disadvantage, but they are doing great - only difference is face mask. All other countries are doing all the other measure like Czech - social distancing, closure etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtEX2-n2Hc


Same reason in Hongkong and now US doctors are also suggesting -
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/asia/cor ... index.html

I have videos in WhatsApp from all 3 places claiming that this made the difference. Can we have govt initiative to procure and distribute to all (or other economically viable means). Our best needs (police, doctors, nurses) better face cover (3 ply and N-95 when near a known source).

Moreover I know in some state level govt the CM and/or Chief secretary has laughed at the idea and banned face mask (as supposedly spreading panic) in govt offices (secretariat). Please let the central govt lead and make in mandatory.

You don't have to be even a smart guy to figure out, why it is effective. Both the sneezing person and person sneezed upon is protected to great extent by the mask, and at least you do not touch your mouth and nose and if you wear spec, nor your eyes.

This should be one of the exit strategy after lock down. We still make our own fabrics and at least make billions of face masks. Please have the message reach the right audience. People opposing face masks are opposing it based on other reasons (political, since XYZ said, I will oppose or support it; or there is no research date from research done over 20 years etc. etc.
arvin
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by arvin »

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/s ... 20098.html
Health workers in Telangana surveying the neighborhoods of Nizamuddin Markaz returnees have complained of abuses and information refusal from the locals, in some areas like Nizamabad. Speaking to DH, the district medical and health officer of Nizamabad Dr M Sudharshanam said that some of the minority community members “were repulsive, thinking the survey was part of the NRC.”
April 15 date was set with certain assumptions in mind among them is co-operation from all sections of society. Till sunday it had gone smoothely. Markaz cases has put all calculations to toss.
Karan M
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

Re Masks

Yes and the PSA agrees with you. Note illustration is by MOHW and the (C)Hindu tried to create a controversy by insinuating both differed. Pathetic bunch of jokers.

The manual - please share as widely as possible. Shows how to make homemade masks and the logic behind it, 70% reduction in transmission of particles smaller than a virus. Even shows a method to use a handkerchief and rubber bands
http://psa.gov.in/sites/default/files/p ... NALpdf.pdf

https://twitter.com/PrinSciAdvOff/statu ... 1509634056

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 914725.cms

Good thing is PSA has relased an advisory on how to make masks at home. Please spread. Its important to disinfect the masks periodically.

Otherwise you will re-infect yourself. Source - usual med places but my own (idiotic) experience, wherein i accidentally reused a mask and got sick all over again. Correlation isn't causation but still.
brar_w
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by brar_w »

Karan M wrote:
brar_w wrote:Karan, this is being done in NY. About 10,000 rooms would be converted by the end of April. Student accommodation (rooms and dorms) is being used as are hotel rooms and other government owned properties. Its just that it is a slightly longer process because you have to sign leases and then convert them to the level of care that is needed (from simple beds for sub-acute patients to those who need ventilators). Have the students in larger Indian cities been asked to vacate? If so this could be applied there as well especially in government institutions where taking them over will be very easy. But that too will only be for the higher acuity patients in case the problem explodes like it is doing elsewhere. Probably tens of thousands of additional beds are going to be needed, in NY for example, when the number of active cases climbs to mid 6 figures.
We need to do something similar - I think this entire convert a stadium to one large camp with poor ventilation is just another problem which we haven't realized, though I will continue to dig for evidence to the contrary (and why not - it would be good if I am mistaken).
Everyone expecting a spike needs to do both. Even hospitals that currently exist, even the best ones, cannot completely isolate patients in wards or even ICU's given the sheer numbers we are talking about. Protocols are being looked at for sharing ventilators. Its all hands on deck and everyone that needs it, needs to add capacity to the highest level possible with limited workforce constraints, and equipment availability in mind. Those dorms and convention centers are attractive because it is an efficient way to manage a large cohort of sub-acute positive with a small healthcare workforce. Unless you can get complete buildings spreading patients around would have quite an impact on the mobilized workforce, ambulances and other support..This is why GOI and state governments need to look at government universities and transforming class rooms, and student hostels into these. Add capacity now if the larger metros project a spike in cases. Unlike NY, London or Paris..India's major cities still have time.
Karan M
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

arvin wrote:https://www.deccanherald.com/national/s ... 20098.html
Health workers in Telangana surveying the neighborhoods of Nizamuddin Markaz returnees have complained of abuses and information refusal from the locals, in some areas like Nizamabad. Speaking to DH, the district medical and health officer of Nizamabad Dr M Sudharshanam said that some of the minority community members “were repulsive, thinking the survey was part of the NRC.”
April 15 date was set with certain assumptions in mind among them is co-operation from all sections of society. Till sunday it had gone smoothely. Markaz cases has put all calculations to toss.
Decades of misbehavior and disregard for the law. And now this. All the appeasement policies have come home to roost.
Karan M
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

brar_w wrote:
Karan M wrote:
We need to do something similar - I think this entire convert a stadium to one large camp with poor ventilation is just another problem which we haven't realized, though I will continue to dig for evidence to the contrary (and why not - it would be good if I am mistaken).
Everyone expecting a spike needs to do both. Even hospitals that currently exist, even the best ones, cannot completely isolate patients in wards or even ICU's given the sheer numbers we are talking about. Protocols are being looked at for sharing ventilators. Its all hands on deck and everyone that needs it, needs to add capacity to the highest level possible with limited workforce constraints, and equipment availability in mind. Those dorms and convention centers are attractive because it is an efficient way to manage a large cohort of sub-acute positive with a small healthcare workforce. Unless you can get complete buildings spreading patients around would have quite an impact on the mobilized workforce, ambulances and other support..This is why GOI and state governments need to look at government universities and transforming class rooms, and student hostels into these. Add capacity now if the larger metros project a spike in cases. Unlike NY, London or Paris..India's major cities still have time.
Even moderate Apartment complexes in India typically have anywhere around 100-200 flats spread across a handful of towers.
Karan M
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Karan M »

^^ Indian media back to batting for their favorites.
yensoy
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by yensoy »

I was curious about the visa rules which were apparently flouted by the Tablighis. This is what I found on the internet - official GoI website https://mha.gov.in/PDF_Other/AnnexI_01022018.pdf
15 Restriction on engaging in tabligh activities
Foreign nationals granted any type of visa and OCI cardholders shall not be permitted to engage
themselves in tabligh work. There will be no restriction in visiting religious places and attending
normal religious activities like attending religious discourses. However, preaching religious
ideologies, making speeches in religious places, distribution of audio or visual display/ pamphlets
pertaining to religious ideologies, spreading conversion etc. will not be allowed.
Unless they have video proof, it's going to be hard to blacklist the foreigners who visited. Better blacklist the Tabligh Jamat itself, I say.
vijayk
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vijayk »

wrong thread ... deleting it
Last edited by vijayk on 01 Apr 2020 23:03, edited 1 time in total.
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