Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

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Manas
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Manas »

Amber G. wrote:
Solid evidence that the bivalent booster elicits a strong and broadened neutralizing antibody immune response.. but less than 27% of Americans 65+, the have had it (poor uptake across all age groups).
IMO: They made a really good decision to update the vaccine (but science communicators didn't understand that)
My personal experience and views. You are welcome to disagree but I will respect your views and I hope you will accord me the same respect. I dodged COVID for almost 3 years through the pre-vaccine phase of the pandemic, took 2 initial shots, took the 1 st booster (3rd shot) 6 months after my first round. Skipped the mRNA 2nd booster (4th shot) as it was clear that the same old mRNA vaccines targeted against spike proteins of the original Wuhan virus would not be effective due to so many virus mutations. I have been leading a fairly normal life without masks the last year+ with lots of travel etc. No issues, never tested positive for COVID in 3 years.

But finally, I took my omicron specific 2nd booster (4th shot - all Pfizer) late September. Figured the new modified booster will help me avoid catching the mutated virus for a few more months. Lo and behold I tested positive this past weekend. Down hard with chills, fevers, bad throat, cough for 48 hours. With all the 4 doses of vaccine including one barely 8 weeks ago can hit a healthy, fit adult with NO other chronic conditions so hard then I wonder if the vaccines are effective at all ?! beyond a placebo. I am 52 so I had the Dr. call in the Paxlovid prescription. 2 doses of that anti-viral has made me feel better and the fever hasn't come back since i started on the anti-viral. So I believe the anti-viral is most effective than the vaccine.

Moral of the story - as much as we should trust science, we have to have a healthy dose of skepticism about the narrative from people that make, govern public health policy. I have always been against firing flight attendants, nurses, fire fighters, policemen etc that refused to take vaccines arguing they already had COVID and recovered and even if they didnt they took risks to serve people when the rest of the world shut down and played it safe. But the vaccines or bust dogmatic scientists and twitter mobs destroyed 1000's lives, families and put them out of jobs just for having an alternate view point. In hindsight the skeptics have been proven correct IMO i.e. among healthy adults natural immunity is probably the only defense but the vaccines may be a must for high risk/older population. Why fire and excommunciate, ostracize the people that risked their lives on the front lines where there were no vaccines ?

I respect science and scientists but I have lost all respect for the CDC and NIH (lead by Dr. Collins and Dr. Fauci who I think is retiring in a few weeks). The thing that has crossed my mind the last couple of days is - this person Dr. Fauci was in charge of deciding who to grant $billions in tax payer $s for R & D and there is no doubt in my mind that his funding of the Wuhan lab and Dr. Shi Zheng Li through Dr. Peter Dzacak and Eco health alliance resulted in the gain of function research that created this virus and destroyed millions of lives. And to think of the fact that he is getting away scot free while pontificating, posturing and BSing his way through the pandemic is infuriating !
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vish_mulay »

Got 2 initial Pfizer shots followed by 2 boosters as advised by my GP (my work involves extensive meeting with people from different and vulnerable strata of society, even during full blown pandemic, thus eligible as a front line respondent). Got COVID 4 weeks (late July 2022) after 2nd booster and was down for 4 days with moderate symptoms. One week after COVID was followed by worst flu I ever had in life. 4 days of pure agony and literally thought I was not going to make it. All test were negative for COVID. Continuous dry cough, body aches, chills, ear pain and vertigo, had no energy at all. I have never been sick for the last 20 years and look after myself with daily 10K walk and balanced diet. Used to boast that I can fall asleep anytime anywhere as I have clear conscious. As of today I have continuous bilateral knee pain and severe sleep disturbances (started 6-8 weeks after COIVD). I can fall asleep easily but after first 2-3 hrs , I wake up and cant fall back asleep. GP has send me on a long list of different tests which are getting done one by one as we speak. Sleep hygiene was evaluated and found that I am not doing anything which is detrimental for good sleeping habits. Even did Psyche evaluation to rule of depression and stress. Nothing has been found so far. I have refused to take prescription sleep medication. Knee pain is diagnosed as starting of osteoarthritis and pain medication is prescribed. For me I don't know whether these are post COIVD ramifications or aging impact but overall my immune system is not working the way it was before 2022. I hope and pray that its just transient phase and nothing serious. My unconditional faith in health systems and checks and balances has taken a beating in this year. I really dont know whether WHO NIH or Australian Medical Council was working in good faith. Hope they were and not the blind men of Hindustan.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

FWIW: There is a long explainer for why the US is not pursuing nasal vaccines. (It's too long to read for my test - the article is behind a paywall, do not like NYTimes anyway and IMO there is no good explanation on why we shouldn't pursue it)... But here is the link:
The End of Covid Vaccines at ‘Warp Speed’


Meanwhile, the data keeps on coming..A bivalent booster will help:
(These data suggest the bivalent BA.4/5 vaccine is more immunogenic than the original ...vaccine against circulating Omicron sublineages, including BQ.1.1 that is becoming prevalent)
If you can - Get boosted.
https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.17.516898v1
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Lisa
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Lisa »

^^^

Amber G. will have more to add but there is a fundamental misconception. Vaccines do not stop you getting an infection. They help in reducing the infections severity by enhancing your immune response. Ask any doctor working with COVID and they will ALL say, more unvaccinated patient continue to die than vaccinated patients. Kindly note, that both groups, vaccinated and unvaccinated constitute an infected hospital population.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vijayk »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7761047/
Vitamin D Insufficiency May Account for Almost Nine of Ten COVID-19 Deaths: Time to Act. Comment on: “Vitamin D Deficiency and Outcome of COVID-19 Patients”. Nutrients 2020, 12, 2757


Evidence from observational studies is accumulating, suggesting that the majority of deaths due to SARS-CoV-2 infections are statistically attributable to vitamin D insufficiency and could potentially be prevented by vitamin D supplementation. Given the dynamics of the COVID-19 pandemic, rational vitamin D supplementation whose safety has been proven in an extensive body of research should be promoted and initiated to limit the toll of the pandemic even before the final proof of efficacy in preventing COVID-19 deaths by randomized trials.
Amber G.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Have no interest in getting into unproductive debate, but let me just quote from the link given above wrt:
Evidence from observational studies is accumulating, suggesting that the majority of deaths due to SARS-CoV-2 infections are statistically attributable to vitamin D insufficiency and could potentially be prevented

Here is the quote from the link given above:
the results of observational studies always need to be interpreted with caution, since they are vulnerable to bias and unknown confounders. Although a covariate-adjusted hazard of death of ~11 for VitD [ look at the sample size] insufficient patients (25(OH)D <20 ng/mL at baseline) was observed, it should be noted that due to the small sample-size and particularly the low number of death events, we were only able to include a limited number of confounding variables (age, gender, and presence of any comorbidity) in our models
[Nothing against Vit D, but we do need vaccines and antiviral medications for effective fight]

I am also posting two important links for doctors and policy makers: Very good articles:
... Myocarditis after mRNA Covid vaccines: results from over 10 million doses in British Columbia
Link:https://www.cmaj.ca/content/194/45/E1529

And Very encouraging new data for Novavax (Covovax in India) boosters (1st and 2nd) for inducing neutralizing antibody response vs BA.5
Link:https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 22282414v1
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ Above headline is quite misleading.. In US majority (about 80% have at least 1 vaccine, fully vaccinated ~ about 68% and those fully boosted are *much* less) people are vaccinated so these kind of statics is quite misleading but unsurprising this kind of lahori logic is there in ddm..

It's like there are 50 people where 45 know a little swimming, and 5 do not swim.. in a boat accident *all* 5 non swimmers and 6 swimmers (total 11) died and ddm will report majority of those who drowned were those who took swimming classes.

(Recent statics - the death rate per *million* vaccinated/boosted people is about (less than) 5 while for non-vaccinated people (in all age groups ) is about 100 (varies depending on age etc but it is *more* than 10x in all age groups).

****
Meanwhile some good news, from a recent (just published) article in Science:
A universal influenza mRNA vaccine effective against all 20 lineages of influenza A and B, effective in experimental models
Link:https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0271
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by sanjaykumar »

One of the problems in simplistic models of vaccination is this meaning of antibody titres. Where more is more I.e. higher titres translate to greater protection.

One needs to know the threshold for protection. Without that data, yes more is more. One needs to know the cell mediated response to the vaccine. One needs to know how and the quantification of antibody/cell mediated immune responses.

Simple titre responses are just that-simple.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

There's a new global Covid wave...and here in US:

Things are once again going in the wrong direction in the United States. Hospitalizations have jumped by 25% in recent days, along with ICUs, test positivity, wastewater surveillance virus levels, and even cases...

Seniors, particularly those without a booster (or one in the past 6 months) are bearing most of the brunt ..., already surpassing the summer BA.5 wave nationally. The increase in hospital admits is also seen for age 50+ and all ages... The unvaccinated are part of this, too, *but* more of the deaths in recent months are among those without a booster shot.
Image

The wave is, not just in US:
Few points for US (IMO - looking at data and analyzing) - :
-Immunity waning - Booster rate in US is particularly low (less than 30% of seniors).
-Abandonment of mitigation measures like masks, colder weather, indoor and holiday gatherings -
-The rise of the BQ.1.1 variant. (BQ.1/BQ.1.1 have shot up to 63% of new cases. The BA.5 wave has faded away (14%) while the worrisome XBB variant is gaining at low levels (now 5.5%) and so is BN.1 (4.6%). The rest of the variant soup is in descent or not gaining traction)
- Low Use of Paxlovid
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vimal »

^^ Thanks Amber ji. This is really worrisome.
I recently got the bivalent booster shot. Does that protect against BQ.1 or XBB?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by raja_m »

vimal
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vimal »

:shock: :shock: Seems like I was too happy with the bivalent shot and its never as good as I thought it would be.
vijayk
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vijayk »

A friend of mine who came back from India (2 + 2 booster shots) and prior infection got COVID again. He is doing OK
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vijayk »

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1602 ... 00098.html

Swine FLu of 1976 vs Corona Virus of 2019 parallels.

It was Ford vs Carter election

Guess who worked on handling Swine Flu in 1976?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Yes, many people have been infected/reinfected even with all the boosters they have taken - but:
1- No reputable scientists were saying any of the vaccine is 100% effective,
2- *Overwhelming* deaths, serious illness, is still among unvaccinated (or not fully vaccinated).
Also, wrt to Evariste Paine's thread above: Internet is *full* of conspiracy theories - some really bizarre.. This is certainly one of these.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Part of the explanation for why there's a lot of variability for neutralizing antibodies after Covid:
Genomic variants in the imunoglobulin heavy chain
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vijayk »

Amber G. wrote:Yes, many people have been infected/reinfected even with all the boosters they have taken - but:
1- No reputable scientists were saying any of the vaccine is 100% effective,
2- *Overwhelming* deaths, serious illness, is still among unvaccinated (or not fully vaccinated).
Also, wrt to Evariste Paine's thread above: Internet is *full* of conspiracy theories - some really bizarre.. This is certainly one of these.
I am not questioning vaccines but this is like FLu. No escape from it even after so many vaccines
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

No one is questioning that Flu and Covid (and many other illness for that matter) may have some similarities. To me, the part which is beyond absurd is jumping to conclusions like statements like ' since .. Swine 76 and the COVID 20 .yada yada ....Fauci worked on both issues, and on both vaccines!"... yada yada ...something evil... yada yada..
Many people were alive in 1976 and 2020's and *many* worked on vaccines (Fauci did not work on covidshiled etc) so IMO these kind of 'conclusions' are absurd.
My last on this -- there will be people believing no matter how absurd any theory is.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Zynda »

Is BB's new nasal vaccine cleared for booster shots? If an aged person or adult in India, wants to take another booster shot next year, can they or should GoI officially approve another round of booster shots (4th) one?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Jay »

vijayk wrote:https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1602 ... 00098.html

Swine FLu of 1976 vs Corona Virus of 2019 parallels.

It was Ford vs Carter election

Guess who worked on handling Swine Flu in 1976?
Why are you peddling conspiracy theories in this post? If the news is so so credible, why is it through an anonymous blog post?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Wrt to nasal vaccines:
FWIW Immunologist and microbiologist Michael W. Russell of the University at Buffalo explains how nasal vaccines work ETC..
Nasal vaccines promise to stop the COVID-19 virus before it gets to the lungs – an immunologist explains how they work
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Zynda »

Amber G, has SUTRA folks been able to estimate the impact of BF-7 Covid variant on rest of the world?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ I am fairy sure that India's Risk Surveillance Center is keeping a eye. (and GoI is listening). There are reported cases of BF.7 in India, US (and other parts of the world).
I will check (and also ask SUTRA team if they have published any thing) if they are seeing any phase changes which we should worry about.. and simulate some some theoretical values of parameter changes for India and USA..

My worry is (hope I am wrong) that this particular variant seems to be much more infective (than other Omicron variants) and more immune escape even from previous exposure of Omicron and vaccines. There may be urgency of boosters. (At present for aam janata best we can do is to have a bivalent booster ASAP - if have not gotten in last 4-5 months). And listen to our government regarding vaccine strategy.

Strict isolation, travel restriction etc may buy a little time but will be of little help if the virus is that infective.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile: Cough, headache, runny nose, and sneezing -- this handy chart will help you figure out. :)
Image
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Please get a booster if your are eligible (bivalent etc..)..
The US "senior wave" of Covid hospitalizations has already exceeded the summer BA.5 wave and may surpass the Delta wave. Most of these admissions could have been prevented with a booster shot. -- 94% of people age 65+ had 2 shots but only 36% have had a recent booster. Some data which come out recently for effectiveness of the recent boosters are *very* encouraging even with new omicron variants (especially for preventing hospitalization.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile, I got this news and such news items make me happy.
Noccarc ia a Pune based manufacturing unit - incubated by IIT-Kanpur community.. During Covid period they rapidly worked on developing an Invasive ventilator (I think they worked 24/7 and developed it in around 3 months) and ... and later it rapidly scaled up in form of Naccarc.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Zynda »

Thanks Amber G. I think GoI is trying to be well prepared...my grouse...if there is any possibility of another wave in India, it is coming right around the corner of Aero India...I don't want to miss another year of AI again!
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Zynda wrote:Thanks Amber G. I think GoI is trying to be well prepared...my grouse...if there is any possibility of another wave in India, it is coming right around the corner of Aero India...I don't want to miss another year of AI again!
It is difficult to predict -- especially about future.. but ...
The situation in China and India is different - we have seem Omicron (nowhere as bad as delta wave in India) which became quite devastating in China due to very low hybrid immunity (+ Omicron escape Chinese vaccine immunity). BF.7 is much more infective but still it is similar to other variants of Omicron so for India this is not going to any major wave..(We will see BF.7 in more numbers but it will not be a wave)

May be someone from SUTRA team will publish for aam junta -..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

FWIW: From Indian NewsPaper today:
India has hybrid immunity’: NTAGI chief amid rising fears over China’s COVID spike

also good that we are monitoring this seriously..
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Amber G.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

xpost:
China has emergency approved their inhaled vaccine (by CanSino) for rollout. (Most vaccines being administered in China is still the CoronaVac shot.. I do hope this e aerosolized inhaled vaccines will make a difference --(and other countries may speed up their Nasal Vaccine program).

(Can some one give details/update on roll out for WashU's - nasal vaccine which has been approved for emergency use in India as a booster for people who have already received two doses of other COVID-19 vaccines. TIA
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Important and Nice article:

Until now the immune escape of BQ.1.1 and XBB has been largely (if not exclusively) assessed via neutralizing antibodies. Here are new (in silico data): the T cell responses (CD4+, CD8+) are likely intact vs these variants, which helps prevent severe Covid. Get those boosters!
Progressive loss of conserved spike protein neutralizing antibody sites in Omicron sublineages is balanced by preserved T-cell recognition epitopes
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by vijayk »

What happened to BB's nasal vaccine? Is anyone using in India? Is it being produced in large quantities?

I think we need to be ready so that this does not cripple our Healthcare system
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

^^^^ FWIW: I do not know the actual status of actual use - WashU's - nasal vaccine which has been approved for emergency use in India as a booster for people who have already received two doses of other COVID-19 vaccines..may be it ought to become more popular.. Will recommend it if it is available..

^^^(In the trial many people - both covidshiled and covaixn - took part in the trials and had good trials - as far as I know)
(May be someone can ask the proper authorities)

IMO (and this is the recommendation from people I respect in India) -- get a booster (any kind which is available) if eligible (and last shot was more that 4 months ago). Latest data + informed opinion suggests it is still *very* effective in preventing serious illness - including the new variants.

(India - per SUTRA - is NOT likely to see any wave)

There is this blip from Wash U..
WashU’s nasal COVID-19 vaccine approved for use as booster in India
-- Many more people now eligible for vaccine delivered via nose drops


****
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Zynda wrote:Is BB's new nasal vaccine cleared for booster shots? If an aged person or adult in India, wants to take another booster shot next year, can they or should GoI officially approve another round of booster shots (4th) one?
China is already starting/advocating/fastpacing use of new nasal vaccine. (Very recent news) (and hoping it performs miracle)
India is also recommending it for booster shots - I hope it is fast paced and becomes popular ...

Other countries are catching up... (I think a few other (small) countries have programs).. There is lot of push to give it a fast pace /wrap 2.0 in USA..

A Nice article from today..
Nasal Vaccines Are Here
Now they’re being used in China. But do they work?
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Amber G. »

xpost: Breking News:
PM Narendra Modiji will review situation related to COVID19 and related aspects in the country at a high-level meeting today (Thursday) afternoon.
This follows Wednesday's meeting chaired by Health Minister in the wake of massive Covid wave in China and other countries.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Post by Zynda »

Amber G., thanks for your replies. IMA also has recommended taking booster shots but not sure how to go about it...I think last time I booked through CoWin. Need to check for availability of nasal vaccine in India...
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