Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

[milindc]

If calling out stupidity is trolling, I'm guilty of it. If it offends can't help it, because every detail was given. Now fanboys will not accept anything which is obvious. For any drug (be it Ayurvedic) to be approved, there is no distinction since they want to claim it will provide efficacy for certain indication. The drug roll out procedure will be the same.
All that was called out was the inadequacy of the trial design plus the fact that 100% cure is proclaimed in conference by Baba without any data available from trial which is still incomplete.
Of course clowns can claim I have lack of understanding of clinical trials and that I know jackshit that's Ok. Not here to counter every argument from folks who are completely blind to obvious.

[srai]

^^^
milindc,

Please tone it down. Whatever points you need to make, you can do so easily without being emotionally charged and arousing the same on the other. We have one side calling the other “arrogant racist fools” and the other side calling them “simpletons” in return.

Counter productive. No message heard.

Stick to the point and we will have a good exchange of ideas

[Jarita]

I tend to agree with disha-ji's points. If Patanjali claims a cure for their medicine, let them conduct trials just like any other medicine. If they fail, their claim falls flat. But why call them "fraud" without any evidence as some poster glibly did above? So what if it is made out of Ashwagandha and Tulsi extract? The only real question is: does it work?

They are being called Fraud because they proclaimed it as "cure" without conducting the trials and it does put his simpleton believers in peril. If he had conducted the trial without the shenanigans of removing even moderately ill patients then I would have applauded him for trying to prove that traditional medicine works.

Everything that is indigenous is fraud or weird postures until it gets patented in the west or is marketed by some gora skin on a fancy mat undulating to besura music.

[Jarita]

There is a lot strawmen being slayed here, plus milindc's incessant trolling. For someone who claims to be intimately knowledgeable of the trials process, he does not want to share a single useful detail on how to bring an Ayurvedic drug into the market, or what the procedure is. This, despite being asked to share useful info multiple times. All one is saying is that, subject Patanjali's claims to the requisite process (assuming it exists), or frame a process by which Ayurvedic or other Indic medicines could be brought to market. It is not at all clear how to go about doing this. What's wrong in asking for that?

Sorry but had to say this. <snipped off the remaining the crap>

Sorry, but had to do this. In the spirit of full disclosure, I am disclosing that I've reported your post for trolling.

Trials are rigged in favor of big pharma. Atleast in Latin America, the medicine men circumvented this nonsense by creating and patenting a medicinal directory - trials be damned.
If 1000 years of usage is not a trial then I wonder what is. Nevermind.

[milindc]

<POOF>

Admin note: use your WhatsApp group for sarcastic repartee posts, not this forum. Keep it civil

[IndraD]

Delhi to test all 29 million for nCV. Antigen testing method will be used. Those who test - but are suspected will have PCR done.

[disha]

The sample size is a grand total of 100, out of which 50 were given a placebo, 45 given the drug and 5 refused consent and were excluded. This is an incredibly small sample size.

Let's assume that 100 is a small sample size (in reality that is not the case as long as the size is statistically significant).

The question to ask is - What can AYUSH do? Or did?

Cannot it at this point step in that to get a certification as a medicine, here are the steps, and here is what we will help with statistical and sampling and collecting data and correlating data (charge a fee if need be). Set up appropriate processes. Set up appropriate labs. Do something.

Isn't this the goal of AYUSH?

The Ministry of Ayurveda, Yoga & Naturopathy, Unani, Siddha, and Homoeopathy is purposed with developing education, research and propagation of indigenous alternative medicine systems in India.

Here is the list of patents assigned to ZiCam which sells a cold remedy https://patents.justia.com/assignee/zicam-llc and last checked it was making $25 million a year (https://www.zoominfo.com/c/Zicam-llc/43303256)

Is it not the whole job of AYUSH to enable ayurvedic companies like Patanjali to access the market the right way. There is definitely a demand for a ChinaVirus remedy. Isn't Coronil a ChinaVirus remedy?

Here we laugh at Coronil having tulsi extract and hound companies like Patanjali by doing this:

Coronil is being examined for alleged violations of the Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940 and Drugs and Magic Remedies Act, 1954.

Tulsi is a magic herb. Just because the west has 1000s of scholarly papers on Tulsi https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=re ... i=scholart

we get the right to hound down any herbal medicine which can be a potential chinavirus remedy under magic remedies act.

[Krita]

The sample size is a grand total of 100, out of which 50 were given a placebo, 45 given the drug and 5 refused consent and were excluded. This is an incredibly small sample size.

Here is the list of patents assigned to ZiCam which sells a cold remedy https://patents.justia.com/assignee/zicam-llc and last checked it was making $25 million a year (https://www.zoominfo.com/c/Zicam-llc/43303256)

Is it not the whole job of AYUSH to enable ayurvedic companies like Patanjali to access the market the right way. There is definitely a demand for a ChinaVirus remedy. Isn't Coronil a ChinaVirus remedy?

Here we laugh at Coronil having tulsi extract and hound companies like Patanjali by doing this:

Coronil is being examined for alleged violations of the Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940 and Drugs and Magic Remedies Act, 1954.

Tulsi is a magic herb. Just because the west has 1000s of scholarly papers on Tulsi https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=re ... i=scholart

we get the right to hound down any herbal medicine which can be a potential chinavirus remedy under magic remedies act.

Synthite, kochi and Sami labs Bangalore are making millions exporting herbal extracts. Lots of skin diseases like psoriasis and auto immune diseases have effective treatment in Ayurveda and homeopathy. Allopathic physcicians scoffs at ayurvedic remedies but they have no answers when we show them proof that Ayurveda helped where their costly drugs have failed.
Coconut oil with turmeric is used to treat lot of skin related issues in Kerala.

[ShyamSP]

Here is the list of patents assigned to ZiCam which sells a cold remedy https://patents.justia.com/assignee/zicam-llc and last checked it was making $25 million a year (https://www.zoominfo.com/c/Zicam-llc/43303256)

Is it not the whole job of AYUSH to enable ayurvedic companies like Patanjali to access the market the right way. There is definitely a demand for a ChinaVirus remedy. Isn't Coronil a ChinaVirus remedy?

Here we laugh at Coronil having tulsi extract and hound companies like Patanjali by doing this:



Tulsi is a magic herb. Just because the west has 1000s of scholarly papers on Tulsi https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=re ... i=scholart

we get the right to hound down any herbal medicine which can be a potential chinavirus remedy under magic remedies act.

Synthite, kochi and Sami labs Bangalore are making millions exporting herbal extracts. Lots of skin diseases like psoriasis and auto immune diseases have effective treatment in Ayurveda and homeopathy. Allopathic physcicians scoffs at ayurvedic remedies but they have no answers when we show them proof that Ayurveda helped where their costly drugs have failed.
Coconut oil with turmeric is used to treat lot of skin related issues in Kerala.

My own anecdote is Ayurvedic medicines helped a lot and replacing chemical medicines and their side effects. If you do cost comparisons (say retail $700 allopathy vs $20 Ayurveda) you can see why the allopathy ecosystem is so vehemently against Ayurveda and buy out and brainwash Indian politicians and medical boards and prevent people from moving to Ayurveda.

[srai]

^^^
If you go to any Western supermarkets and pharmacies, there will be an entire section dedicated to vitamins and natural supplements made out of plant-based and marine-life-based extracts. It’s a multi-billion dollar industry. A lot of people are consuming it worldwide. Being categorized under supplements, they don’t need to go through clinical trials. Products can make claims of benefits in their labels (but with a * [supposed]).

[darshan]

Trials are rigged in favor of big pharma. Atleast in Latin America, the medicine men circumvented this nonsense by creating and patenting a medicinal directory - trials be damned.
If 1000 years of usage is not a trial then I wonder what is. Nevermind.

All one has to do is track finances of clinical trials and how/where get together happen. Then, for further convincing one just needs to reach out to brown folks that handle lot of this outsourced work. For example, like cognizant.

Umpteen number of drugs that get introduced and pulled back with slap on a wrist a decade later.

Not the thread for this but when one thinks of how aspirin was being dolled out for decades.....

For me the mere fact that a massive campaign on YouTube was activated and YouTube algorithms failed to clean it up is good enough to see that for better or worse Patanjali would get my support.

[Raja]

If 1000 years of usage is not a trial then I wonder what is. Nevermind.

1000 years of usage? I didn't realize COVID-19 was around for that long. Are you volunteering to take this wonder drug and then go around bindas in the streets of New Delhi?

[srai]

^^^
If you go to any Western supermarkets and pharmacies, there will be an entire section dedicated to vitamins and natural supplements made out of plant-based and marine-life-based extracts. It’s a multi-billion dollar industry. A lot of people are consuming it worldwide. Being categorized under supplements, they don’t need to go through clinical trials. Products can make claims of benefits in their labels (but with a * [supposed]).

To add, Coronil consists of 500mg Ashwagandha, 1000mg Giloy extract, 500mg Tulsi extract. I can assure you these will be a lot more easily available in the West in the vitamins and natural supplements aisle of supermarkets and pharmacies

[ShyamSP]

^^^
If you go to any Western supermarkets and pharmacies, there will be an entire section dedicated to vitamins and natural supplements made out of plant-based and marine-life-based extracts. It’s a multi-billion dollar industry. A lot of people are consuming it worldwide. Being categorized under supplements, they don’t need to go through clinical trials. Products can make claims of benefits in their labels (but with a * [supposed]).

The comparison I mentioned is for prescription treatment and medications for underlying conditions. Obviously Ayurvedic medicines are not prescribed under health insurance so cost comparisons can be skewed. I understand OTC medicines, supplements, alternative herbal and homeopathy medicines at Drug stores. Some Ayurvedic medicines are also available at US drug stores as supplements and alternatives.

[pandyan]

All I have to say is: you have to experience Ayurveda first to believe in it

https://www.softpowermag.com/why-how-an ... ayasundar/

Why, How and Where Ayurveda Differs from Allopathy: Prof Rama Jayasundar

Professor Rama Jayasundar, the head of the department of NMR at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi spoke on the difference between Ayurveda and Allopathy and why this matters, as a part of the lecture series organised by Vijnana Bharati.

Medical sciences, be it allopathy or Ayurveda, is an applied science and is built on basic sciences. Basic sciences provide concepts, theories and methods to understand the biological system. We are able to understand the pathology and pathophysiology of the diseases and they provide techniques for diagnosis and treatments. Most importantly basic sciences help us in understanding the “World View” or the understanding of reality.

What is important in clinical medicine? Be it any form of medicine- Ayurveda, Allopathy, homeopathy, siddha or unani, they all begin with diagnosis and end with treatment. Treatment depends on diagnosis and diagnosis depends on how well we have understood the human system. Clinical medicine speaks of cells, molecules, tissues and diagnosis will speak the same language. This in turn is followed by treatment, thus maintaining a sync.

When we take up Allopathy, this system of medicine understands the human system in the form of cells, tissues, genes and proteins. Basic sciences contribute to the understanding of any stream of medicine that has a world view. In other words it speaks to the world in a way the world wants to perceive it. This forms the basis of how the human system is understood. Physics has contributed immensely to the understanding of Allopathy - Nuclear radiation, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, quantum physics. Newtonian physics or classical physics talks of how the universe is made of building blocks and this has directly affected the way one looks at the biological system. Larger objects can be reduced to smaller ones. We have atoms to molecules to organelles to an organ leading to an organ system and finally to an organism. There is a clear structural hierarchy. Modern medicine follows the reductionist viewpoint wherein the entire organism can be broken down to its most fundamental unit. This structural view point is followed in diagnosis, treatment, diet and nutrition.

Reductionism helps in identification of malfunctioning components and can help in developing targeted therapies.

Dr Jayasundar then shifted gears and spoke about Ayurveda. Ayurveda is indigenous to the Indian subcontinent, and is very systematically documented. Ayurveda is the science of life and hence deals with both health and disease. Prevention is the strongpoint of Ayurveda. Ayurvedic treatments are extremely comprehensive and effective. Just as Dr Jayasundar spoke of how physics contributed to Allopathy, in Ayurveda, Darshanas play an important role. Darshana simply means to view. It helps provide theories, explains the formation of the universe, speaks of the relationship between the mind body and consciousness, the tridoshas (Vata, Pitta and Kapha), and the Panchamahabhutas (Earth, wind, air, fire and water).

Darshanas are of 6 types- Sankhya, Nyaya, Vaiseshika, Mimamsa, Yoga and Uttara Mimamsa. Sankhya explains the formation of the universe and this is used in Ayurveda to understand the relationship between the mind, body and consciousness and the tridoshas. Nyaya helps to diagnose and also helps in the nomenclature of the known and unknown diseases. Vaiseshika talks of Anu which is an equivalent to the atom and hence talks of the classification of matter- Ayurveda uses this to understand drugs and herb combinations. Mimamsa works out the contributions between various texts. Uttara mimamsa speaks of how Ayurveda conceptualised the interconnections of the mind, body and consciousness. Ayurveda adopted the Vedic Worldview which talks about these interconnections. There are four domains is this view- structural/physical, physiological, psychological and the subtle domain of the consciousness.

We are seamlessly Mind Body and Soul. From the core of our being to the vast expanse of the Universe – We are one, says Dr Rama Jayasundar.

The human body is classified into gross and subtle. The gross consists of Dhatus (physical), Doshas (physiological and psychological) and the Srotas (physical, physiological and psychological). The subtle speak of the realms of awareness. Understanding the functioning of the human body depends on structures, biochemistry, electrical, magnetic, mental and emotional activities.

Dr Jayasundar explained very clearly and briefly the concept of the Tridoshas- vata, pitta and kapha. Vata covers all the movements of the body and mind which makes up one cohesive unit. Pitta speaks of all the metabolic processes- physical (food and nutrients) and mental (thoughts and emotions). Kapha speaks of physical growth with emphasis on the stability of not only the physical body but also mental thoughts, character and behaviour. Vata, Pitta and Kapha each have 5 subclasses and a network of connectivities can be created. If there is any change in this network, Ayurveda brings it back to normal. Physical, chemical, physiological and psychological are important parameters and a change in them will cause a change in metabolism, movement and growth.

The ancient Acharyas used the tridoshas to understand Ayurveda and used the same to classify the parameters that play a role in health and disease. Clinical symptoms come under the classification of the tridoshas. Food, environmental and lifestyle activities play an important role in health. Dr Jayasundar gave an excellent example of how the tri doshas can help in understanding the clinical symptoms. She said “When you visit a vaidya he will ask you for the symptoms and can deduce the type of dosha that has fallen out of balance which will let him know the cause of the disease. With this information, he can also get to know the changes in lifestyle activities and food that caused the disease. Let us consider pain which is a typical feature of chikungunya and this comes under the Vata type. If a burning sensation is felt with the pain, it falls under Pitta. If the pain is dull, it is a kapha type. The other example is fever. If the fever is fluctuating, it is of Vata type. When one experiences a burning sensation in the eye and a bitter taste in the mouth, it is of Pitta type. If one has a wet cold and cough and a low grade fever, it is Kapha.”

No disease in Ayurveda is idiopathic. Everything has a known cause!

Treatment is very comprehensive and can range from internal medicines, procedures like Panchakarma, changes in diet, non-pharmacological interventions like Yoga, meditation and mantra chanting.

Ayurveda focuses on personalised medicine, preventive medicine, circadian rhythm, therapeutic nutrition and many more. Dr Jayasundar beautifully explained the difference between Ayurveda and modern medicine. “When one is sitting in a helicopter and flying over a dense forest, he can only get a general view of the entire forest and not the nitty gritty details. This is how Ayurveda is. When one picks a single leaf from the forest, he can acquire the tiniest details of the leaf. This is how modern medicine works. But different heights give different views leading to different understanding and different terminologies. Ayurveda and Modern medicine have varying viewpoints.”

She finally spoke of systems biology. With respect to modern medicine, there is an interaction between genes and proteins or cells and metabolites. This interaction gives rise to emergent properties that play a role in the functioning of the body. Systems approach in Ayurveda talks about the interactions with the entire organism - the physical, psychological, physiological and the subtle consciousness.

She then took up a few questions from the listeners. She spoke of how Ayurveda and modern medicine can be integrated to give rise to better pharmacological approaches. At a time like this, the need for the two branches of medicine to come together is highly recommended. She also spoke of the misconceptions in the minds of the people about the lack of emergency medicine in Ayurveda. “This is not true. Ayurveda is a science that emerged 5000 years ago. When there were wars, soldiers were treated immediately and in an effective manner that they were able to engage in the war the very next day and there was no need of recuperation. Allopathy does have a very good emergency care system and so does Ayurveda. It is upto the patient to decide between the two.”

[nachiket]

What makes you say the sample size is inadequate? Size is often the function of the statistical test used. And a 50:50 split sample is by no means small depending upon the assumptions of the test. A power analysis will tell you that the size for a significant anova result can be much lower than 50 per group. The study design is more important, and from the information we have there is nothing wrong with a blind rct design.

Compare this with the initial French studies done on the effectiveness of hcq. These studies' design/sample sizes were poor compared to what has been done by pyt. But laughable as it was, the world went gaga over hcq including backing from profs in Stanford, media experts like Oz and numerous other bigwigs. Otoh in India, a study is conducted with far more rigor and much better design, but the drug and company are instantly parodied and spat upon by so called local experts.

I think disha is right. People are showing horrible house nigger tendencies. More white than the white man, Mr. UT has decided to ban the rather harmless ayurvedic concoction!

CM saar, there is a difference between trying out already existing medicines (which have gone through the RCT process for a different ailment) to be tested as a possible treatment for a new illness, and coming up with a completely new drug which is marketed as a cure for a particular illness. Like I said, neither HCQ nor any of the existing antivirals were marketed as Covid-19 cures because despite them being tested on a lot more people definitive proof did not exist for their efficacy for a various levels of seriousness that the disease manifests in.

Problem with Coronil is the claim that it is 100% successful and being marketed as a Covid cure (including the name itself) instead of an immune system booster/supplement. This is why the AYUSH ministry itself raised questions and asked Patanjali to stop calling it a covid cure because they were not satisfied by the evidence available and/or the amount of testing done.

As for UT, he has proven himself to be a moron already looking at the way covid is out of control in Mumbai under his watch and this sort of behavior is typical by now I would say. But let's not compare his blanket ban with the objections of the AYUSH ministry which are valid IMO.

Also, this is an unofficial warning to stop name calling here. House niggers? Really? The next such instance will earn you an official warning and a ban. I understand tempers are high currently for multiple reasons but stick to addressing the arguments please.

[srai]

Good short explanation of what Ayurveda is about: personalized holistic remedies. It does not distill down to one “miracle” tablet like Coronil. It would be part of a larger comprehensive treatment.

...
https://www.softpowermag.com/why-how-an ... ayasundar/

...

The ancient Acharyas used the tridoshas to understand Ayurveda and used the same to classify the parameters that play a role in health and disease. Clinical symptoms come under the classification of the tridoshas. Food, environmental and lifestyle activities play an important role in health. Dr Jayasundar gave an excellent example of how the tri doshas can help in understanding the clinical symptoms. She said “When you visit a vaidya he will ask you for the symptoms and can deduce the type of dosha that has fallen out of balance which will let him know the cause of the disease. With this information, he can also get to know the changes in lifestyle activities and food that caused the disease. Let us consider pain which is a typical feature of chikungunya and this comes under the Vata type. If a burning sensation is felt with the pain, it falls under Pitta. If the pain is dull, it is a kapha type. The other example is fever. If the fever is fluctuating, it is of Vata type. When one experiences a burning sensation in the eye and a bitter taste in the mouth, it is of Pitta type. If one has a wet cold and cough and a low grade fever, it is Kapha.”

No disease in Ayurveda is idiopathic. Everything has a known cause!

Treatment is very comprehensive and can range from internal medicines, procedures like Panchakarma, changes in diet, non-pharmacological interventions like Yoga, meditation and mantra chanting.

Ayurveda focuses on personalised medicine, preventive medicine, circadian rhythm, therapeutic nutrition and many more. Dr Jayasundar beautifully explained the difference between Ayurveda and modern medicine. “When one is sitting in a helicopter and flying over a dense forest, he can only get a general view of the entire forest and not the nitty gritty details. This is how Ayurveda is. When one picks a single leaf from the forest, he can acquire the tiniest details of the leaf. This is how modern medicine works. But different heights give different views leading to different understanding and different terminologies. Ayurveda and Modern medicine have varying viewpoints.”
...

[pandyan]

ayurvedic immune boosters are recommended for everyone though. Triphala, Chyawanprash, Kabasura kudineer (siddha), Nilavembu kudineer (siddha), even sudharsana churna.

It is always a good idea to consult an ayurvedic or siddha doctor for more personalized evaluation and recommendation.

[Cain Marko]

[
Also, this is an unofficial warning to stop name calling here. House niggers? Really? The next such instance will earn you an official warning and a ban. I understand tempers are high currently for multiple reasons but stick to addressing the arguments please.

I didn't call any specific individual names, least of all you. but the tendency to berate local over phoren is little more than what I called it. As far as ad hominem goes, do take a look at milindc's posts.

And you are welcome to ban me as and when you wish. After being on br for almost 20 years, I think it's fair that I get banned at least once.. Gotta earn my stripes like the big boys. I'm sure GHQ will be happy about it too!

there is a difference between trying out already existing medicines (which have gone through the RCT process for a different ailment) to be tested as a possible treatment for a new illness, and coming up with a completely new drug which is marketed as a cure for a particular illness. Like I said, neither HCQ nor any of the existing antivirals were marketed as Covid-19 cures because despite them being tested on a lot more people definitive proof did not exist for their efficacy for a various levels of seriousness that the disease manifests in.

Problem with Coronil is the claim that it is 100% successful and being marketed as a Covid cure (including the name itself) instead of an immune system booster/supplement. This is why the AYUSH ministry itself raised questions and asked Patanjali to stop calling it a covid cure because they were not satisfied by the evidence available and/or the amount

of testing done.

First you say that sample size is an issue, when pointed out that it is actually not so, you now suggest that hcq has a longer history than coronil. Really? Ayurveda has a longer history than anything out there. More importantly, what does history have to do with anything? What history does remsevur or zithromaz or hcq have against covid? Hcq is currently recommended by both the icmr as well as the CDC as a treatment. And in the studies where it was tested vs covid, it was referred to as a cure.

Point is that a double blind RCT was done, that's enough in most cases to get approval. Prior to this another trial of > 250 patients was undertaken with good results but was not considered scientific enough. Sure don't see people banning any of the allopathic treatments despite showing little proof via rcts or clinical trials against covid.

Experts on the forum and elsewhere accept this shit like it's gotta work... Why? Nobody knows?

[mappunni]

ayurvedic immune boosters are recommended for everyone though. Triphala, Chyawanprash, Kabasura kudineer (siddha), Nilavembu kudineer (siddha), even sudharsana churna.

It is always a good idea to consult an ayurvedic or siddha doctor for more personalized evaluation and recommendation.

I was able to get everything you mentioned except for the newer Kabasura Kudineer and Sudharsana Churna in Amazon. I got two pounds of Nilavembu on Amazon.

My local mom and pop family health store carry everything from Brahmi, Triphala, Ashwagandha. Whole Foods or Sprouts, too carry many Ayurvedic supplements

[Zynda]

Dr. Ratnadip, what has been the experience with Fabiflu & Remdesivir drugs? In your last post, you mentioned Fabiflu has replaced HCQ for Covid treatment at least in MH. Hopefully, the drug has lived up to expectations. Also heard that Oxford vaccine has started human trials from this week at multiple countries including Pune. I guess its too soon to know anything but how long does it take to work out the efficacy of the vaccine?

[DavidD]

All I have to say is: you have to experience Ayurveda first to believe in it

https://www.softpowermag.com/why-how-an ... ayasundar/

Why, How and Where Ayurveda Differs from Allopathy: Prof Rama Jayasundar

Professor Rama Jayasundar, the head of the department of NMR at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi spoke on the difference between Ayurveda and Allopathy and why this matters, as a part of the lecture series organised by Vijnana Bharati.

Medical sciences, be it allopathy or Ayurveda, is an applied science and is built on basic sciences. Basic sciences provide concepts, theories and methods to understand the biological system. We are able to understand the pathology and pathophysiology of the diseases and they provide techniques for diagnosis and treatments. Most importantly basic sciences help us in understanding the “World View” or the understanding of reality.

What is important in clinical medicine? Be it any form of medicine- Ayurveda, Allopathy, homeopathy, siddha or unani, they all begin with diagnosis and end with treatment. Treatment depends on diagnosis and diagnosis depends on how well we have understood the human system. Clinical medicine speaks of cells, molecules, tissues and diagnosis will speak the same language. This in turn is followed by treatment, thus maintaining a sync.

When we take up Allopathy, this system of medicine understands the human system in the form of cells, tissues, genes and proteins. Basic sciences contribute to the understanding of any stream of medicine that has a world view. In other words it speaks to the world in a way the world wants to perceive it. This forms the basis of how the human system is understood. Physics has contributed immensely to the understanding of Allopathy - Nuclear radiation, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, quantum physics. Newtonian physics or classical physics talks of how the universe is made of building blocks and this has directly affected the way one looks at the biological system. Larger objects can be reduced to smaller ones. We have atoms to molecules to organelles to an organ leading to an organ system and finally to an organism. There is a clear structural hierarchy. Modern medicine follows the reductionist viewpoint wherein the entire organism can be broken down to its most fundamental unit. This structural view point is followed in diagnosis, treatment, diet and nutrition.

Reductionism helps in identification of malfunctioning components and can help in developing targeted therapies.

Dr Jayasundar then shifted gears and spoke about Ayurveda. Ayurveda is indigenous to the Indian subcontinent, and is very systematically documented. Ayurveda is the science of life and hence deals with both health and disease. Prevention is the strongpoint of Ayurveda. Ayurvedic treatments are extremely comprehensive and effective. Just as Dr Jayasundar spoke of how physics contributed to Allopathy, in Ayurveda, Darshanas play an important role. Darshana simply means to view. It helps provide theories, explains the formation of the universe, speaks of the relationship between the mind body and consciousness, the tridoshas (Vata, Pitta and Kapha), and the Panchamahabhutas (Earth, wind, air, fire and water).

Darshanas are of 6 types- Sankhya, Nyaya, Vaiseshika, Mimamsa, Yoga and Uttara Mimamsa. Sankhya explains the formation of the universe and this is used in Ayurveda to understand the relationship between the mind, body and consciousness and the tridoshas. Nyaya helps to diagnose and also helps in the nomenclature of the known and unknown diseases. Vaiseshika talks of Anu which is an equivalent to the atom and hence talks of the classification of matter- Ayurveda uses this to understand drugs and herb combinations. Mimamsa works out the contributions between various texts. Uttara mimamsa speaks of how Ayurveda conceptualised the interconnections of the mind, body and consciousness. Ayurveda adopted the Vedic Worldview which talks about these interconnections. There are four domains is this view- structural/physical, physiological, psychological and the subtle domain of the consciousness.

We are seamlessly Mind Body and Soul. From the core of our being to the vast expanse of the Universe – We are one, says Dr Rama Jayasundar.

The human body is classified into gross and subtle. The gross consists of Dhatus (physical), Doshas (physiological and psychological) and the Srotas (physical, physiological and psychological). The subtle speak of the realms of awareness. Understanding the functioning of the human body depends on structures, biochemistry, electrical, magnetic, mental and emotional activities.

Dr Jayasundar explained very clearly and briefly the concept of the Tridoshas- vata, pitta and kapha. Vata covers all the movements of the body and mind which makes up one cohesive unit. Pitta speaks of all the metabolic processes- physical (food and nutrients) and mental (thoughts and emotions). Kapha speaks of physical growth with emphasis on the stability of not only the physical body but also mental thoughts, character and behaviour. Vata, Pitta and Kapha each have 5 subclasses and a network of connectivities can be created. If there is any change in this network, Ayurveda brings it back to normal. Physical, chemical, physiological and psychological are important parameters and a change in them will cause a change in metabolism, movement and growth.

The ancient Acharyas used the tridoshas to understand Ayurveda and used the same to classify the parameters that play a role in health and disease. Clinical symptoms come under the classification of the tridoshas. Food, environmental and lifestyle activities play an important role in health. Dr Jayasundar gave an excellent example of how the tri doshas can help in understanding the clinical symptoms. She said “When you visit a vaidya he will ask you for the symptoms and can deduce the type of dosha that has fallen out of balance which will let him know the cause of the disease. With this information, he can also get to know the changes in lifestyle activities and food that caused the disease. Let us consider pain which is a typical feature of chikungunya and this comes under the Vata type. If a burning sensation is felt with the pain, it falls under Pitta. If the pain is dull, it is a kapha type. The other example is fever. If the fever is fluctuating, it is of Vata type. When one experiences a burning sensation in the eye and a bitter taste in the mouth, it is of Pitta type. If one has a wet cold and cough and a low grade fever, it is Kapha.”

No disease in Ayurveda is idiopathic. Everything has a known cause!

Treatment is very comprehensive and can range from internal medicines, procedures like Panchakarma, changes in diet, non-pharmacological interventions like Yoga, meditation and mantra chanting.

Ayurveda focuses on personalised medicine, preventive medicine, circadian rhythm, therapeutic nutrition and many more. Dr Jayasundar beautifully explained the difference between Ayurveda and modern medicine. “When one is sitting in a helicopter and flying over a dense forest, he can only get a general view of the entire forest and not the nitty gritty details. This is how Ayurveda is. When one picks a single leaf from the forest, he can acquire the tiniest details of the leaf. This is how modern medicine works. But different heights give different views leading to different understanding and different terminologies. Ayurveda and Modern medicine have varying viewpoints.”

She finally spoke of systems biology. With respect to modern medicine, there is an interaction between genes and proteins or cells and metabolites. This interaction gives rise to emergent properties that play a role in the functioning of the body. Systems approach in Ayurveda talks about the interactions with the entire organism - the physical, psychological, physiological and the subtle consciousness.

She then took up a few questions from the listeners. She spoke of how Ayurveda and modern medicine can be integrated to give rise to better pharmacological approaches. At a time like this, the need for the two branches of medicine to come together is highly recommended. She also spoke of the misconceptions in the minds of the people about the lack of emergency medicine in Ayurveda. “This is not true. Ayurveda is a science that emerged 5000 years ago. When there were wars, soldiers were treated immediately and in an effective manner that they were able to engage in the war the very next day and there was no need of recuperation. Allopathy does have a very good emergency care system and so does Ayurveda. It is upto the patient to decide between the two.”

No, you have to see data proving its efficacy to believe it. All that mumble jumble about the concepts of allopathy and ayurvedic is not what makes one superior to the other, what matters is proven results. Run a RCT comparing allopathic and ayurvedic treatments for a specific disease, how well does each reach its end point? I fully accept that modern science comes far short of explaining let alone solving everything, so I'm certainly open to new concepts, but I need to see results. If ayurvedic treatment for a condition is superior, then let's use that until we can find something better. It's really that simple.

[arshyam]

All I have to say is: you have to experience Ayurveda first to believe in it

https://www.softpowermag.com/why-how-an ... ayasundar/

No, you have to see data proving its efficacy to believe it. All that mumble jumble about the concepts of allopathy and ayurvedic is not what makes one superior to the other, what matters is proven results. Run a RCT comparing allopathic and ayurvedic treatments for a specific disease, how well does each reach its end point? I fully accept that modern science comes far short of explaining let alone solving everything, so I'm certainly open to new concepts, but I need to see results. If ayurvedic treatment for a condition is superior, then let's use that until we can find something better. It's really that simple.

This is exactly why allopathic doctors' words about traditional medicine is treated with suspicion. You could have made the same point without the condescension, but you had to bring in dismissive phraseology like "mumble jumble". Do they teach this sort of contempt in med schools? These two words detract from an otherwise agreeable post.

[anmol]

Pakistan was the origin for HALF of Britain's imported coronavirus cases - amid calls for tougher quarantine checks from 'high-risk' countries
By GEORGIA SIMCOX FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 01:50 BST, 27 June 2020 | UPDATED: 01:53 BST, 27 June 2020


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... cases.html

[pandyan]

No, you have to see data proving its efficacy to believe it. All that mumble jumble about the concepts of allopathy and ayurvedic is not what makes one superior to the other, what matters is proven results. Run a RCT comparing allopathic and ayurvedic treatments for a specific disease, how well does each reach its end point? I fully accept that modern science comes far short of explaining let alone solving everything, so I'm certainly open to new concepts, but I need to see results. If ayurvedic treatment for a condition is superior, then let's use that until we can find something better. It's really that simple.

what is your view on traditional chinese medicine?

a good example that I can cite is how effective and expensive is the treatment for kidney stones in allopathy? how effective, efficient and inexpensive is it with ayurvedic and siddha medicines?

[Zynda]

Bangalore has recorded the highest number of cases today at 600!!! Sunday lock down is back and night curfew is back from Monday (June 29th) on wards. I do think we are heading towards another lock down, at least in BLR, despite BSY saying it otherwise.

[Zynda]

It seems like in BLR:

Director of HFWS directs all the 75 private and public labs not to reveal the Covid-19 test results directly to the patients and instead upload the details onto the ICMR portal. If any lab deviates from this, they would be recommended for derecognition by BBMP.

I do not understand the reasoning behind this. If a particular individual paying 4500 INR for a test at a private lab, doesn't the patient have the right to know the result of the same and seek immediate treatment? Or should the patient wait for some person from BBMP to contact & inform? What if due to back log, BBMP delays the call? Is BBMP afraid that any person who tests positive might go to a private hosptial and "occupy" a bed & increase the bed loads? So much for transparency from BSY. I guess current State Government sat pretty for the last 4 months seeing the low number of cases in BLR/Karnataka and all of a sudden, when the cases numbers are beginning to spike, they don't have clarity on what needs to be done and are taking absurd decisions like the above.

I hope there is enough push back from public and makes BBMP/State Government with draw an absurd directive like the above.

Also, now BBMP are realizing that out of state people who were supposed to be in home quarantine are violating their quarantine and are roaming around the city. Firstly, it was brought to attention by many users on twitter, on how easily the quarantine stamp ink on the back of their wrists goes away in a day or two after frequent hand wash with soap.

Lax implementation of quarantine, not ramping up required medical infrastructure...A friend was saying that states received lot of funds from center to ramp up medical infrastructure. Not sure how it was used in Karnataka. It seems like TN did a lot of purchases like ventilators etc. to ramp up capacity.

All the people who have WFH facility, count your blessings, stay home & venture out only if necessary until a vaccine comes by.

[kvraghav]

It seems like in BLR:
...

Most of the people dying in BLR have hypertension. Reading the report only makes it worse. Between, what will the person do after reading the report? There is no medicine anyways and if he has emergency, he will be rushed to ER with or without report. The only aspect in this is quarantine which will anyways be imposed on the person even before the tests.

[ShyamSP]

It seems like in BLR:
...

Most of the people dying in BLR have hypertension. Reading the report only makes it worse. Between, what will the person do after reading the report? There is no medicine anyways and if he has emergency, he will be rushed to ER with or without report. The only aspect in this is quarantine which will anyways be imposed on the person even before the tests.

New Coronil from Patanjali should help there. Especially, some ayurvedic medicines can put body in good immunity and balance condition, body getting infected reduces and tolerating disease increases.

[Zynda]

Vaccine or a drug which can improve recovery rate is badly needed not only to save lives but also to get economy running in max gear. A drug can relax people & companies anxieties...Hope the following drugs become successful by early Sept.

A coronavirus vaccine is still months away, but an antibody treatment could be closer

Vaccines have gotten all the attention in the race to fight Covid-19, but there is a major push in the United States to develop antibody therapies to treat coronavirus. There's so much of a push that some scientists think these treatments may be available this year, even before a vaccine.

Antibodies are the proteins the body makes to fight infection.

Since the Victorian era, scientists have harnessed this natural protection for treatments.

During the 1918 flu pandemic, doctors proved convalescent plasma -- antibody-filled blood plasma from patients who recovered from the disease -- could fight flu. Convalescent plasma has been used to treat severe flu, MERS and SARS and now some US doctors are starting to see some success treating Covid-19, too.

Since there isn't enough donated plasma to treat all patients, modern medicine can fill in the gaps and maybe even improve the process. Scientists can create what are called monoclonal antibodies: lab-made antibodies created specifically to target an infection.

Vaccines have the advantage of working longer than an antibody treatment. Antibody therapies potentially last a month or two and then wear off, but they can be used to temporarily protect vulnerable populations such as nursing home residents or healthcare workers or people with chronic conditions. The therapies could also treat people who are already sick with Covid-19.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a member of the White House coronavirus task force, said these therapies will be essential in the fight against Covid-19.

"Right now we have a major push on a program to develop monoclonal antibodies, convalescent plasma, and hyperimmune globulin, all of which are founded on the same principle of using an antibody that is directed against the virus for either prophylaxis or treatment," Fauci said in an interview with JAMA on June 8. "I think you're going to see it's going to be for both. We'd like to have available for those who are at risk—the elderly and those with underlying conditions—either monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma. That's a very, very high priority."

Currently there are at least 102 Covid-19 antibody treatments in various stages of development, according to David Thomas, vice president of Industry Research at BIO, the trade association representing the biotechnology industry. Thomas does the research that goes into his organization's Covid-19 therapeutic development tracker. He said there are so many treatments under development, it's hard to keep up.

"I never looked at it to grow this big, this fast, and I've worked on all different therapeutic areas from Alzheimer's to cancer, and to see a pipeline of this size and this breadth is amazing," Thomas said.

Thomas said some therapies are designed to treat the secondary effects of Covid-19 such as inflammation. Others are being designed to kill the coronavirus itself.

Compared to other diseases, the research and development of Covid-19 treatments are moving at "light speed," Thomas said.

Four monoclonal antibody treatments made to treat and possibly even prevent Covid-19 infection already went into human trials in June.

Indianapolis-based pharma giant Eli Lilly has two. One was developed in collaboration with AbCellera, a biotechnology company based in Canada. Another was developed with Junshi Biosciences.

The antibody Lilly developed with AbCellera called LY-CoV555 is now in a Phase 2 clinical trial of non-hospitalized patients. That study is currently enrolling patients. Lilly said in the future it will also test additional antibodies and experiment with different combinations to see which work best.

Regeneron is testing its antibody cocktail in patients in the US. The New York-based biotech company is enrolling hospitalized and ambulatory patients with Covid-19 in the initial safety/virology phase of the trial, spokesperson Alexandra Bowie said this week. The company hopes to have preliminary data in the next one to two months. They are scaling up manufacturing to create hundreds of thousands of doses by August 2020, dedicating their entire manufacturing plant in upstate New York to the effort.

There is also another effort from Tychan, a biotech company based in Singapore, that has launched a Phase 1 clinical trial in hospitalized patients there. The company said this part of the trial will take about six weeks.

It's likely, if all goes well in the first phrases of the trials, therapies could advance to the next phases sometime this summer, the companies said, and treatments could potentially be available by the fall. Although, some scientists say, not everything works as planned in real life.

"Sometimes antibodies that work in the lab and neutralized really well aren't as effective when they are used in animal models or humans, so it's always a little bit tricky," said Phyllis Kanki, a professor of immunology and infectious diseases at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. Sometimes it can take time to get the antibody cocktail right, Kanki said.

However, Thomas of BIO,said the industry has built up a lot of antibody therapy development expertise over the years in creating treatments to fight cancer and autoimmune disease.

In addition to therapies specifically designed to fight the novel coronavirus, companies are also looking to repurpose some of their existing monoclonal antibody treatments as potential Covid-19 treatments.

Novartis, for example, is in a phase 3 trial of the drug canakinumab against coronavirus. This interleukin-1beta blocker is FDA-approved to treat certain rare types of periodic fever syndromes, also called auto-inflammatory syndromes.

The company hopes canakinumab can be used to treat patients whose Covid-19 infection has caused a condition called cytokine release syndrome, or cytokine storm. where the body's immune system overreacts to the infection and harms the body. That trial is currently enrolling patients in the US.

China-based biotech company I-Mab said it also hopes to have the results by August from its trial of an antibody therapy, which it is currently testing on cytokine storm patients, so it could potentially offer a treatment by early fall.

Humanigen's lenzilumab also seems to be working against cytokine storms, according to a small study from scientists at the Mayo Clinic. That Phase 3 trial is ongoing.

Several other therapies are still being tested in the lab. A South Dakota company, SAB Biotherapeutics, said it plans to start human trials with its antibody treatment derived from the plasma of cattle in July.

Most experts think that the world could have an antibody treatment sooner than a vaccine, although vaccine development is moving along at a record pace, too.

"There's a lot of excitement around what these antibody therapies can do, at the animal level anyway," Thomas said. "They were showing neutralizing activity and we're seeing a lot of positive data."

[pandyan]

I was able to get everything you mentioned except for the newer Kabasura Kudineer and Sudharsana Churna in Amazon. I got two pounds of Nilavembu on Amazon.

My local mom and pop family health store carry everything from Brahmi, Triphala, Ashwagandha. Whole Foods or Sprouts, too carry many Ayurvedic supplements

Triphala is very safe to take. Nilavembu consume in very small quantities; if you kudineer mix, it is better as instruction is clear on how to prepare and drink. in general, it recommended with a meal. for immunity boost, people generally consume for 5 days and stop for the next 3-4 week and then repeat. Some take it 2 time every week. If you have access to a siddha doctor or ayurvedic doctor, please do consult.

[pandyan]

https://twitter.com/SandhyaRamanat1/sta ... 4211800069
This video by dr. Sandhya Ramanthan was circulating in whatsapp. One of the best set of instructions

"Please watch and share this video I have made demonstrating an active home management plan for mild #COVID19 in the context of limited access to hospital care/testing using simple affordable equipment. This will help save many lives. ⁦Stay safe"

I have divided management principles into 3 categories: 1/ priming immunity 2/ reducing viral load 3/ breathing exercises/positioning. Demos: pulse oximetry, saline nasal rinse, basic lung physiology, box breathing, balloon blowing (auto PEEP), bubble blowing via straw into H2O.

[srai]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Date: April 2, 2020
1 million cases
50,000 deaths

5% death rate average
...

Date: April 15, 2020
Over 2 million cases today
134,000 deaths

6.7% death rate average (known cases and deaths)

Known cases doubled in two weeks.

Date: April 27, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 3,055,498
Deaths: 211,035
Recovered: 918,184

6.9% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
30% Recovery average

Another million in 12-days. Recovered inching towards a million (1/3 of known infections).

Date: May 9, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 4,032,763
Deaths: 276,677
Recovered: 1,399,718

6.86% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
34.7% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Three times in a row ... 12-to-14 days another million case

Date: May 20, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 5,000,599
Deaths: 325,156
Recovered: 1,970,918

11-days to another million
6.5% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
39.4% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Date: May 30, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 6,033,835
Deaths: 366,891
Recovered: 2,661,163

10-days to another million
6.08% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
44.10% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Recovery inching upwards while death rate dropping down.


7 June 2020

Coronavirus Cases: 7,008,898
Deaths: 402,691
Recovered: 3,429,150

8-days to another million
5.75% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
48.93% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Cases are accelerating but death rate decreasing while recovery at nearly half of the cases.

June 15, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 8,013,919
Deaths: 435,988
Recovered: 4,137,545

8-days again to another million
5.44% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
51.63% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Recovery has crossed 50% mark

June 22, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 9,035,375
Deaths: 469,581
Recovered: 4,796,077

7-days to another million
5.20% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
53.08% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Cases accelerating

June 28, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 10,066,178
Deaths: 500,539
Recovered: 5,451,480
Active: 4,114,160
Serious/Critical: 57,707 (1%)

6-days to another million
4.97% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
54.16% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Ten million known cases and half-a-million deaths

[vijayk]

FLORIDA DATA ... Don't know how much transparent or cooked up this data is

[Zynda]

https://twitter.com/SandhyaRamanat1/sta ... 4211800069
This video by dr. Sandhya Ramanthan was circulating in whatsapp. One of the best set of instructions

"Please watch and share this video I have made demonstrating an active home management plan for mild #COVID19 in the context of limited access to hospital care/testing using simple affordable equipment. This will help save many lives. ⁦Stay safe"

I have divided management principles into 3 categories: 1/ priming immunity 2/ reducing viral load 3/ breathing exercises/positioning. Demos: pulse oximetry, saline nasal rinse, basic lung physiology, box breathing, balloon blowing (auto PEEP), bubble blowing via straw into H2O.

Thanks for posting this. One of the better videos which is truly helpful. Many thanks to the Dr. Sandhya for taking this initiative.

Meanwhile, as expected, lots of people in BLR after submitting themselves for swab tests are not quarantining or staying indoors while waiting for results. They are going about to their work and/or socializing, resulting in further spread of the virus.

The Ghost Protocol: There’s a problem with our testing routiine: Find out

Yesterday's high numbers in BLR is due to the back logs of tests that had accumulated. Officials are warning that BLR will post high numbers for the next 2-3 days. Apparently, two important & massive testing centers in BLR had to be closed, as the staff themselves contracted virus, thus all the samples were diverted to other labs and hence the backlog in processing & giving out results. Also, increased random testing in BLR has revealed the extent of transmission. They are finding a lot of infections among vegetable & fruits sellers etc.

The center has said today that they are not concerned about increasing numbers but rather focused on providing timing care & treatment to affected individuals. Problem is that with increasing cases, the number of people requiring critical care may also go up and we just can't & don't have the capacity to treat them all.

I do hope that Fabiflu & Remdesivir (and now Steroids) are helping in improving & shortening the recovery so that more people can find beds etc. when needed.

[sajo]

Pune city has the capacity to collect 3500 samples per day, and process 1500 results per day.
Out of those 1500 results, a whopping 996 tested positive yesterday, indicating what's possibility the highest percentage of positive cases amongst tested in the world??

[chola]

Pune city has the capacity to collect 3500 samples per day, and process 1500 results per day.
Out of those 1500 results, a whopping 996 tested positive yesterday, indicating what's possibility the highest percentage of positive cases amongst tested in the world??

That must mean herd immunity! Cases might rise greatly from testing but the ratio to deaths would drop precipitiously. I hope this is true across the country. The total case numbers might be masking very good news.

[Ambar]

Anyone noticing a spate of new articles appearing in well known international news media praising Kerala's model ? Although i am not quite certain what "Kerala Model" is compared to other states, and while it is true that Kerala's number of cases-to-deaths is low , there are several other states that either matches or beats this ratio. Besides, north Kerala relies heavily on neighboring Karnataka's coastal districts for healthcare. Looking at how UP,AP, Telangana and WB numbers have started to rise now , i think its fair to say we wont peak anytime before September.

[chola]

Anyone noticing a spate of new articles appearing in well known international news media praising Kerala's model ? Although i am not quite certain what "Kerala Model" is compared to other states, and while it is true that Kerala's number of cases-to-deaths is low , there are several other states that either matches or beats this ratio. Besides, north Kerala relies heavily on neighboring Karnataka's coastal districts for healthcare. Looking at how UP,AP, Telangana and WB numbers have started to rise now , i think its fair to say we wont peak anytime before September.

If the results from Pune is any example, there are places where the infection had ALREADY peaked but because testing was low until now we might not know they had occurred.

[darshan]

Virus still driving demand for resources.


IKDRC commissions 10k litres fully automated Liquid Oxygen Tank
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2020/06/28/ ... ygen-tank/
“We have augmented oxygen requirement in our wards to serve our patients better especially after demand increased due to admission of Covid-19 infected patients,” said Dr Mishra in a statement released on Sunday.

The institute till now banked upon cylinder deliveries for oxygen requirement but installation of a tank would ensure a hassle free supply.

“Commissioning of liquid oxygen tank in our premises would help us save on recurring costs and plug supply issues,” added Dr Mishra.