Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Zynda » 21 Jun 2020 21:08

BLR records its highest number of daily cases at 197. Doctors are seeing a lot of ILI, SARI cases in BLR, which has confounded them. Not sure if this is replicated in other parts of India. Speaking to people who have come in to KA/BLR from other states, the quarantine stamp place on the wrists rub off in 3-4 days after application of soap and/or sanitizer (not election grade ink). Many people are breaking quarantine with impunity and even attending work. KA government is talking about treating/managing rising infections rather than controlling it. Honestly, with things opened up, I am not sure even if the rising infections can be controlled without an extended strict lock-down (to which BSY has said an absolute NO. Also there is no certainty that another lock-down will yield the desired results). At this moment, all hopes are on Fabiflu and/or Remdesivir to improve the recovery rate and shorten the time needed as well.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Ambar » 21 Jun 2020 21:16

Majority of the cases in BLR Urban are from people returning from MH or abroad. Given that 70% of the covid cases in top 5 worst effected districts in Karnataka can be traced to MH orUAE tells us two things - UAE and likely much of middle eastern kingdoms are under-reporting their covid numbers, and MH probably has well over 25% of its population if not more who are covid positive, its just that majority of them may be asymptomatic .

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Zynda » 21 Jun 2020 21:54

Actually, the recent cases in BLR urban, especially ILI & SARI cases are with patients who are not primary contacts and have no travel history. Even though not officially declared, authorities are suspecting some community transmission in some hot spots clusters. Also in the last few weeks, it is been quite windy in BLR. Not sure if its a factor.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srai » 22 Jun 2020 06:51

srai wrote:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Date: April 2, 2020
1 million cases
50,000 deaths

5% death rate average
...

Date: April 15, 2020
Over 2 million cases today
134,000 deaths

6.7% death rate average (known cases and deaths)

Known cases doubled in two weeks.

Date: April 27, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 3,055,498
Deaths: 211,035
Recovered: 918,184

6.9% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
30% Recovery average

Another million in 12-days. Recovered inching towards a million (1/3 of known infections).

Date: May 9, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 4,032,763
Deaths: 276,677
Recovered: 1,399,718

6.86% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
34.7% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Three times in a row ... 12-to-14 days another million case

Date: May 20, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 5,000,599
Deaths: 325,156
Recovered: 1,970,918

11-days to another million
6.5% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
39.4% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Date: May 30, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 6,033,835
Deaths: 366,891
Recovered: 2,661,163

10-days to another million
6.08% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
44.10% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Recovery inching upwards while death rate dropping down.


7 June 2020

Coronavirus Cases: 7,008,898
Deaths: 402,691
Recovered: 3,429,150

8-days to another million
5.75% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
48.93% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Cases are accelerating but death rate decreasing while recovery at nearly half of the cases.

June 15, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 8,013,919
Deaths: 435,988
Recovered: 4,137,545

8-days again to another million
5.44% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
51.63% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Recovery has crossed 50% mark


June 22, 2020
Coronavirus Cases: 9,035,375
Deaths: 469,581
Recovered: 4,796,077

7-days to another million
5.20% death rate average (known cases and deaths)
53.08% recovery average (known cases and recovery)

Cases accelerating


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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sajo » 22 Jun 2020 21:36

What would it take for the authorities to admit we are in "rampant community transmission" phase ? I believe in places like Mumbai, Pune, Delhi, Chennai, Ahmedabad, it is no longer possible to trace the transmission from someone who had gotten it from abroad.
Would it change our govt protocols? At 4.31 lakh cases and increasing rapidly what are our options now, other than to man-up and carry on?
The fear in the earlier lockdowns was good, people were scared and taking precautions, its now all down the drain now, atleast in my parts.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby gunnvant » 22 Jun 2020 22:23

sajo wrote:What would it take for the authorities to admit we are in "rampant community transmission" phase ? I believe in places like Mumbai, Pune, Delhi, Chennai, Ahmedabad, it is no longer possible to trace the transmission from someone who had gotten it from abroad.
Would it change our govt protocols? At 4.31 lakh cases and increasing rapidly what are our options now, other than to man-up and carry on?
The fear in the earlier lockdowns was good, people were scared and taking precautions, its now all down the drain now, atleast in my parts.

Sirjee active cases are ~1.75 lakh. Cases with outcome are around 2.5 Lakh.Doubling rate of active cases is in the range of 25 to 40 days (daily variation as per Shamika Ravi’s posts) Doubling duration for recoveries is in 20ish day range ( again as per Shamika Ravi). Given these numbers I think we are doing okay. Also as per Khujliwal testing Delhi is 18000+, centre has mandated institutional quarantine for all people coming to Delhi, Mumbai I think is the only place where we still have a situation at our hand and more work is needed.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Ambar » 22 Jun 2020 22:40

Chennai and parts of Bangalore are going into a lockdown once again so that should hopefully slow down the cases. What a horrible scourge the chinese have unleashed on the world. Its almost like the virus has a mind and motive, after destruction in East Asia, Europe , US and Canada its now wrecking havoc in countries that did well until May - India, Chile, Peru, Mexico and well, Brazil, but in Brazil's case much of it seems self-inflicted. By the way keep a close eye on the Paki numbers which probably is some 6th fail madrassa guy punching into a spreadsheet, thrice now in the last week i've seen their numbers reduce by 20%-30% as the day progresses.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sajo » 22 Jun 2020 23:20

Ambar wrote: By the way keep a close eye on the Paki numbers which probably is some 6th fail madrassa guy punching into a spreadsheet, thrice now in the last week i've seen their numbers reduce by 20%-30% as the day progresses.


Its the Djinns doing their magic!

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby DrRatnadip » 23 Jun 2020 10:16

-Favipiravir is included in official treatment protocols in maharashtra..

-It will be used as ALTERNATIVE to Hcq in moderate symptomatic cases and mild symptomatic with comorbidities..

-HCQ No Longer recommonded in asymtomatic and mild symptomatics without comorbidities..


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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Ambar » 23 Jun 2020 19:50

Don't know if people are looking at the US numbers, although the number of new cases has been steady the death rate is now the lowest since mid-March, and at this point the covid related deaths numbers are on par with average deaths / day during a regular flu season. The worst seems to be over for SE Asia, US, Canada and EU. The new hotspots are Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Peru and ofcourse India.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srai » 23 Jun 2020 19:54

Coronil... what’s in it?

100% cure ... sounds too good to be true. Nothing is that good sorry to say!

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby amar_p » 23 Jun 2020 23:48

Some southern states like Arizona, Florida and a several others are showing significant new spikes that Trump gang is downplaying calling them "embers". US is far from getting out of the woods.

Check this out, very concerning:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby VKumar » 24 Jun 2020 00:30

Patanjali guarantees cure in 14 days. If it doesn't happen the patient can complain to god.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Shameek » 24 Jun 2020 05:14

Worrying scenes at Puri for the Rath yatra. I hope we are not undoing all the good that the lockdown did by rushing to open everything.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 24 Jun 2020 05:35

Most people in cities are still walking around without masks.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby KJo » 24 Jun 2020 06:35

Ambar wrote:Don't know if people are looking at the US numbers, although the number of new cases has been steady the death rate is now the lowest since mid-March, and at this point the covid related deaths numbers are on par with average deaths / day during a regular flu season. The worst seems to be over for SE Asia, US, Canada and EU. The new hotspots are Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Peru and ofcourse India.


Trump has been gloating about this claiming it's because of increased testing, and that death rates have been low.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 24 Jun 2020 06:42

srai wrote:Coronil... what’s in it?

100% cure ... sounds too good to be true. Nothing is that good sorry to say!


If remdesivir which is a repurposed anti-viral can be rushed through, why not Coronil? It has been shown that turmeric is medicine. In fact, Ayurveda has converted the food into medicine so much so that food as medicine became natural to us and we stopped to think.

Now we get surprised and shocked when Patanjali comes with a claim that the Jadi Buti (the herbs) can cure us and go rah-rah when US Prez talks about HCQ which is a derivative from Quinine, which is a herb.

In fact, 30% of all modern medicines are derived from herbs! So what's wrong if another modern medicine is derived from an herb?

It is this blatant rundown of our own ancient systems that have caused other cultures to take advantage of it and we come here and whine that #mudimustrezine since he is not protecting Hindu culture!

Yes, when penicillin arrived, it was the wonder drug of the century. In fact, it is still a wonder drug. Its efficacy has reduced because of all the penicillin fed to cattle to make beef.

So why cannot Coronil be wonder drug? We have the right to ask for proper studies but to run it down just because the drug is from a company that is run by a half-naked fakir stinks of high racial arrogance.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 24 Jun 2020 06:49

amar_p wrote:Some southern states like Arizona, Florida and a several others are showing significant new spikes that Trump gang is downplaying calling them "embers". US is far from getting out of the woods.

Check this out, very concerning:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage


Please correlate it with death rate and where the mortality is. For example check this out: https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus-ny/

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srai » 24 Jun 2020 09:02

dishaji,

Please calm down brother ;)

Anyone saying 100% cure is questionable. Doesn’t matter who it is. There is no such a thing.

Human genetic variation is large. Comorbidity also exists in significant population. No single drug/herb or combination of such treatment can cure for all. Yes, there will be certain population segments that will do extremely well with a set of treatments while others not so.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Karan M » 24 Jun 2020 10:07

It needs proper trials and evidence. Otherwise, it will harm the cause of Ayurveda. I sincerely hope ICMR treats it seriously and it actually works. Will be a game changer of epic proportions.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Cain Marko » 24 Jun 2020 13:06

Karan M wrote:It needs proper trials and evidence. Otherwise, it will harm the cause of Ayurveda. I sincerely hope ICMR treats it seriously and it actually works. Will be a game changer of epic proportions.

Well they seemed to have followed all the protocols...ICRT and ethics committee permission was taken and the RCT was independently conducted by NIMS. I'm sure more trials will take place...

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sajo » 24 Jun 2020 13:27

How will Coronil be administered to extremely critical patients, since it seems to be in a pill form? Say, those on life support? Hopefully there is a study on that as well, done on compassionate grounds to begin with.
Is it available for purchase by Mango-pipples? Does it need a prescription? Will it cause harm if taken as a prophylactic ? So many questions!
Teetar has exploded in mockery, harks back to our conditioning to rubbish anything coming from India.
I agree it should have been marketed better, like publishing studies in major publications first and then going for a product launch.
Last edited by sajo on 24 Jun 2020 13:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby chola » 24 Jun 2020 13:30

Karan M wrote:It needs proper trials and evidence. Otherwise, it will harm the cause of Ayurveda. I sincerely hope ICMR treats it seriously and it actually works. Will be a game changer of epic proportions.


I hope it is true but I agree it would harm Ayurveda if not properly tested.

The 100% claim is extraordinary and so needs evidence to support it.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby milindc » 24 Jun 2020 13:47

So Baba's Coronil's ingredients was released by Patanjali based on the request by Ayush ministry.
It is actually 3 tablets (500mg Ashwagandha, 1000mg Giloy extract, 500mg Tulsi extract) twice a day.

What Baba did is basically fraud on his simpleton believers.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby darshan » 24 Jun 2020 17:57

IIRC around the March timeframe, Patanjali had put this out as prevention drug. And in increased dosage for someone going through the actual condition and other treatments. Off topic, but I still can't figure out why Patanjali resorts to syhthetic ingredients like colors, fragrances, etc. in many of their ayurveda products.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Ambar » 24 Jun 2020 19:34

What Patanjali could have done is marketed it as a immunity boosting medicine instead of calling it a cure for coronavirus. Patanjali got off to a good start when they started back in 2008 but in the last few years it looks like they've become really good at self-sabotaging their own brand.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 05:19

milindc wrote:So Baba's Coronil's ingredients was released by Patanjali based on the request by Ayush ministry.
It is actually 3 tablets (500mg Ashwagandha, 1000mg Giloy extract, 500mg Tulsi extract) twice a day.

What Baba did is basically fraud on his simpleton believers.


How? MilindC'ji, please explain in detail how that formulation and dosage is fraud?

Till then it is just lazy accusation. Borne out of arrogance.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 05:31

sajo wrote:How will Coronil be administered to extremely critical patients, since it seems to be in a pill form? Say, those on life support? Hopefully there is a study on that as well, done on compassionate grounds to begin with.


Why would you go on life support if you start showing symptoms and start taking the medicine and get cured?

Is it available for purchase by Mango-pipples? Does it need a prescription? Will it cause harm if taken as a prophylactic ? So many questions!
Teetar has exploded in mockery, harks back to our conditioning to rubbish anything coming from India.
I agree it should have been marketed better, like publishing studies in major publications first and then going for a product launch.


This is based on Ayurveda and public and cannot be patented. Only brand names will be able to make money. Since they can charge extra for guarantee of proper formulations and purer extracts.

You are right on tweeter going bonkers. But it is the same here. Arrogant statements that dump on Patanjali. From accusations of fraud to causing lasting damage to Ayurveda.

I am actually glad that Patanjali made the claim. And pushed it forward. Let AYUS grow up and evolve protocols to formulate and test the efficacy of the medicine. And further, if the formulations work, Patanjali must be granted product patent.

Here is the catch-22 for everybody claiming "marketing better". This was the best marketing. And regarding publishing studies, let me tell you a straight fact. You show up in traditional dhoti and ask for help in studies or publish in a 'reputed and major' publication like Lancet and you will be shown the boot.

You do not believe me, please dress up in Dhoti and show up in Lutyens Delhi and see if you can get a room in a 5* hotel. And here we are talking of a half naked fakir associated with Mudi.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 05:47

Ambar wrote:What Patanjali could have done is marketed it as a immunity boosting medicine instead of calling it a cure for coronavirus. Patanjali got off to a good start when they started back in 2008 but in the last few years it looks like they've become really good at self-sabotaging their own brand.


Maybe they started it that way and realized that they are getting great outcome! And went ahead with their claim. Nothing wrong with that approach. Particularly if Moderna and Gilead can farm billions of dollars on their nonsense without hurting allopathy and Lancet, a major and reputable publication can shaft a pathetic study where the sun does not shine (between the ears, i.e.,) of its ingliss readers., Why cannot Patanjali make its claim?

And why we have to assume that Patanjali's claim is useless? Particularly in the light of this study https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-018-2238-1 ?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 06:07

srai wrote:dishaji,

Anyone saying 100% cure is questionable. Doesn’t matter who it is. There is no such a thing.


Please do not be ignorant.

There are diseases with 100% cure. Across human genetic variations and co-morbidities.

And a single drug/herb or a combination of such treatment can cure for all humans for those diseases.

Please read up on the life and works of Dr. Yellapragada Subbarow.

Coming to think of it, we Indians are a bunch of arrogant fools once we know ingliss. If I come and say that instead of the lord god, every human must pray to Dr. Subbarow as THE savior, I am just telling the truth. But then the same ingliss speaking crowd will nail me to a cross demanding proper research to be published in reputable journals and not marketing properly. Later after nailing me to cross, they may market me well I guess! Poor Subbarow, he will have to wait his turn. Or maybe we should have nailed him to the cross? :-? . For being a nice human and humble person.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 06:16

And here is what I was talking about TB. There are 6x more deaths due to TB: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/tb-still-a-bigger-killer-than-covid-in-india/articleshow/76602706.cms

TB is a highly infectious disease and with no cure for multi-drug resistant TB.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby darshan » 25 Jun 2020 06:48

Baba Ramdev had announced this few months ago to run trials. While looking for that video, I noticed that there are thousands of videos on YouTube. Essentially tons of fake handles generating videos and YouTube's algorithms failing to suppress them. Good reason enough for me to give my support to Baba Ramdev. Meets my rule of thumb for supporting someone. Many villages in GJ are giving kadha multiple times a day to quarantined cases in isolation. Nothing wrong with it. Not any worse than all the random darts being thrown by big pharma companies.

No need for modern science that still hasn't found a solution or origin of the virus to get too snotty about anything.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 07:20

Here is a short story:

In the early 90s I have associated with administrative staff college of India on a project somebody from the administrative services was interested in. The plan was simple, collect all information about ethnobotanical usage (products and processes) to treat diseases. For example, if some tribe is using aloe vera to treat dry skin diseases, it goes into database with appropriate information of the tribe, the location, the process, and the usage.

One of our finds was interesting. Some tribes in Araku valley were using gum karaya as a glue for their parchments. And to separate the parchments they will apply some gentle heat and pressure (generally applied by the ball of the palm). And reglue the parchments the same way. They will then use small sticks from another plant as needles to thread the parchments together. Of course we have seen Tendu leaf bowls and plates. Think of it as an improved Tendu bowls glued with gum karaya. What struck us was that there was 3M patent for post-it notes. Press and stick. 3M is considered an innovative company, thanks largely to its post-it notes. And here we had a tribe which did not know what post-it was and was using the same product and process to stick parchments. If this was documented and put out as a product, 3M would not get its global patent.

But the tribal from Araku valley, whose kid or teen has more knowledge in field biology than a professor (since the kids/teens identify the plant, how it grows, where it grows and how to use it for various reasons and the animals associated with it) is treated like dirt. By the ingliss speaking arrogant crowd (that is me and you).

Do not believe me - check this paper out on the usage of different herbs for different diseases by the tribals: http://www.iosrphr.org/papers/v3i4/part.2/E0342022028.pdf

We could not continue building the database. Partly the funding dried up. You know how much we needed it? 4.5 lakhs per year for next 2 years.

And partly some low-level Babu at the state govt. office decided that the manuals for the Unix OS and Ingress DB are not necessary and sold all the Unix and Ingress DB documentation for personal gain. Not just that, any attempt to pay extra to get the Unix docs or contact the Ingress team was scorched. Why? What would the tribals (and the team which supported them) do with all this OS/DB?

There is another side tale to that entire story. An American professor associated with an ivy league wanted to get his hands on several kilograms of Tulsi extract. Of course one of the desi Babu (will call him Tiger) kicked his tushy at some cost to himself.

And point here is, three (3) decades back there was and still remains substantial interest in Tulsi. And hence I fully support what Patanjali did. This basically ties Tulsi to a Viricide and becomes prior art. . I would have preferred the ingliss speaking forumites sitting at the high table to think through their head and outside the box instead of using this forum as a soapbox for foaming at mouth and outraging.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srai » 25 Jun 2020 07:38

Disha,

We can see you are committed to the cause. But let it not cloud your judgement by calling others racists and all that. You can make your arguments in a civil manner.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Y. Kanan » 25 Jun 2020 07:51

COVID-19 Death Rate now stands at .3%
https://reason.com/2020/05/24/the-cdcs- ... below-0-3/

The CDC's New 'Best Estimate' Implies a COVID-19 Infection Fatality Rate Below 0.3%
That rate is much lower than the numbers used in the horrifying projections that shaped the government response to the epidemic.


This is what I've been saying since the early days of this panic. The more we learn about coronavirus, the less dangerous it appears. I made earlier statements to this effect, and was slammed roundly and had my posts deleted. Now that the non-fearmongers are being vindicated, will you continue to censor me, mods?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby disha » 25 Jun 2020 08:04

Srai'ji,

Please do not get hurt. I prefer that everybody do research on Dr. Subbarow and know his life and work.

It was your claim that there is no magic bullet. My point is that this is not always the case. And urging all to go and check out Dr. Subbarow's life and work since there are some instances there that prove my point. There is no accusation of racism here. Please highlight the sentences where you think I was racist.

Of course, I do accuse ourselves (and that includes me) about hypocrisy and bigotry. I have been criminal in my past where I used to think so highly of myself just because I could read ingliss publications. And got a chance to get an advanced degree. The epiphany that a tribal kid has more knowledge of botanicals and field biology than an average graduate (or even post-graduate) came recently when I was gardening and I was learning how to grow few herbs. Just because the tribal kid has spent all his growing years identifying the plants and how to effectively use them from his or her tribal community makes him/her no less. In fact, it is more. Does that kid need advanced ingliss degree to be considered educated?

Anyway, if my acerbic argument brings a counter-argument on behalf of Patanjali to light some thoughts. I think it is well worth it.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby milindc » 25 Jun 2020 08:06

disha wrote:
srai wrote:dishaji,

Anyone saying 100% cure is questionable. Doesn’t matter who it is. There is no such a thing.


Please do not be ignorant.

There are diseases with 100% cure. Across human genetic variations and co-morbidities.

And a single drug/herb or a combination of such treatment can cure for all humans for those diseases.

Please read up on the life and works of Dr. Yellapragada Subbarow.

Coming to think of it, we Indians are a bunch of arrogant fools once we know ingliss. If I come and say that instead of the lord god, every human must pray to Dr. Subbarow as THE savior, I am just telling the truth. But then the same ingliss speaking crowd will nail me to a cross demanding proper research to be published in reputable journals and not marketing properly. Later after nailing me to cross, they may market me well I guess! Poor Subbarow, he will have to wait his turn. Or maybe we should have nailed him to the cross? :-? . For being a nice human and humble person.


Having worked on clinical trial stats, I come across this Ayurveda vs Pharma slug-fests a lot. The placebo effect is too large and a new drug/molecule has to overcome that placebo bias and also the efficacy of any existing treatments. Unless statistically proven that the molecule works for that target, it is just a hunch. While hunch has proven to help, it is not the cure.
Somehow Indians are attached to this thought that Ayurveda is a superior system than modern medicine but don't invest time/money to prove its efficacy.
Now Baba could have just announced it is just immunity booster as originally claimed in license but no, he decided to pimp it as a cure knowing fully that the trial design and the trial itself is complete fraud.

arshyam
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby arshyam » 25 Jun 2020 08:07

I tend to agree with disha-ji's points. If Patanjali claims a cure for their medicine, let them conduct trials just like any other medicine. If they fail, their claim falls flat. But why call them "fraud" without any evidence as some poster glibly did above? So what if it is made out of Ashwagandha and Tulsi extract? The only real question is: does it work?

Similarly, there is no point in going down rabbit holes like "how will it be given to those on life-support" or ventilators since they may not be able to open their mouths and swallow. It's funny no one asked that question for remdesivir or favipiravir - especially given the dosage of the latter (DrRatnadip shared the dosage in the previous page - "3,600mg (9 tabs*200mg twice a day) on Day1"), it is impossible to administer to critically ill patients. But it could still be used on other patients, can't it? Same yardstick applies here, doesn't it?

Patanjali is an FMCG major and did not become one without some professional management. Making claims which could be easily shown to be false would only hurt them, and market logic says they won't do it just like that. Let them clarify what tests they did and the process they followed and let Ayush and the Health ministry/ICMR* take a call on what needs to be done next. If anything, this is a great opportunity to evolve a verifiable test mechanism for Ayurveda and other natural medicine systems. It's also the Ayush ministry's duty to make the process robust so Ayurveda itself is not damaged if the claim turns out to be false.

Btw, Patanjali is not the only one proposing a cure based on natural ingredients. There were reports a couple of weeks ago about a Siddha formulation (kabasura kudineer) that showed a good recovery rate:

30 COVID-19 patients discharged after Siddha treatment in Chennai - TNIE

By Omjasvin MD
Express News Service

CHENNAI: Thirty COVID-19 patients in Chennai have been discharged so far after being treated by Siddha medicine at the Jawahar College Campus.

“Out of the 30, six people took an exit test and were found to be negative. The rest were all stable,’’ Health Secretary Dr J Radhakrishnan told The New Indian Express.

He said they normally do not carry out exit tests for stable patients but these were done to highlight the efficacy of the Siddha treatment.

Currently, about 100 patients are still getting treated by Siddha in the city while other medicine systems like Ayurveda, homeopathy and naturopathy are also being experimented on patients across government hospitals and COVID care centres.

On May 29, the state government held a feasibility meeting on exploring the Indian system of medicine for treatment of COVID-19. Eight representatives from various systems participated and presented the treatment modalities which could reduce the viral load in patients.

In the meeting, State Development Policy Council (SDPC) Vice Chairman C Ponnaiyan suggested that the doctors go ahead with promoting the efficacy of the system and provide well documented clinical trials to establish it, according to sources.

Dr N Manavalan, Principal, Government Yoga and Naturopathic Medical College and Hospital, who was also the member of the panel, told Express that trials were going on at Stanley and Omandurar hospitals and the COVID care centres at Loyola and DG Vaishnav Colleges.

"Naturopathy treatment acts as a primary prevention method, helping in reducing the multiplication of the viral load. This method gives importance to the throat and nasal part of the body," he said.

Dr Manavala added that in COVID care centres, patients are taught yoga and pranayama and are made to do salt water gargling and steam inhalation. "Most of the patients are stable and are being continuously monitored," he said.

As of June 10, a total of 3146 COVID positive patients have been getting yoga and naturopathy treatment.

“We will surely expand the use of Indian medicine in the coming days. This system has shown results in Kerala too,’’ Dr Radhakrishnan said. He added that this system could work hand-in-hand with the allopathy treatment.

Panel members told Express that soon, outcomes of Indian medicine treatment for COVID patients will be published as a documented paper and presented to the government.
This last statement is the key, and there is no easy way to access these papers, whereas allopathy has a dime-a-dozen such publications starting with Lancet. It's time we build our own credible publication(s) so such studies can be publicly verified and not casually dismissed without any proof.

* Typically, I have seen Indian allopathy practitioners being the most dismissive of Ayurveda and related systems. Sad.


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