Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3578
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby nam » 17 Apr 2020 19:56

The Chinis asked the Germans to say good words for the medical kit they exported. Probably the local Chini ambassador wanted to show off to the big Xi with some good press.

The German went public with the incident... what a delusion bunch in CCP, who thinks the Germans will happily go along with the plan..

Leonard
BRFite
Posts: 183
Joined: 15 Nov 2000 12:31

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Leonard » 17 Apr 2020 22:28

FYI -- The PAKI's are exploding at the SEAMs -- Burial without examination for anything ..

3,265 bodies brought to 30 graveyards of Karachi in 49 days, data reveals

KARACHI : A total of 3,265 dead bodies were brought to 30 graveyards of Karachi between February 20 and April 9 (49 days), official statistics from the city’s top administrative body revealed on Thursday.

The development comes after reports were published in few segments of the media regarding spike in deaths in Karachi’s different hospitals which sent alarms bells as many feared that the number of Covid-19 fatalities could be much higher.

..

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2199754/1-3265-bodies-brought-30-graveyards-karachi-49-days-data-reveals/

Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1975
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 17 Apr 2020 22:57

Philip wrote:50K PPE kits from China found defective.We should punish them for such atrocious behaviour.Why on earth are we continuing to have an dealings with them?


Right on. The only thing India should be importing from China is emergency stuff that cannot be easily imported into India from elsewhere, as rapidly. And even that, India should tread cautiously.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2458
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Apr 2020 00:43

syam wrote:Since we can't do much to the virus and the infected more than what we are already doing, I have plan for rebooting the economy.
We have to divide the society into two groups based on the resistance to the virus. one group which is less vulnerable to virus will run the economy. other group which is more vulnerable to the virus will live in quarantine places.
Basically we are building a big database of people who are fit to work. There should be some sort of license for each person to get back into active society. If he doesn't meet the criteria, he will live outside the active society.
yeah, very similar to what bill gates proposed. but without the costly vaccine part. imo, we have to reboot the society and at the same time also do the lock down part. if chini bots indexing this post, please consider it. you have many ghost cities. can easily shift the vulnerable folks there.
key part of the plan is, to find the less vulnerable people from the huge data base. I bet chinis have full data regarding the disease. I am sure they can make list of such people.

Divide humans into Eloi and Morlocks?
Gautam

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2300
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby sudarshan » 18 Apr 2020 00:54

g.sarkar wrote:Divide humans into Eloi and Morlocks?
Gautam


LOL, I doubt too many people will get that reference from Time Machine. But it could well be heading for that.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2458
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Apr 2020 01:15

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
How China’s authoritarian system made the pandemic worse
By Editorial Board, April 17, 2020

SOMETIME IN November or December of last year, a novel coronavirus infected a person in Wuhan, China, leading to an outbreak that became a global pandemic and exposed huge weaknesses in governance and leadership. In the case of China, the weakness was the system. A closed, authoritarian government repeatedly deceived and covered up the truth as the virus spread. It is wrong to accuse China, based on present evidence, of willfully releasing a plague on the world. It is right to point out that China’s system and its deceptions made the situation worse, and the proper remedy would be more transparency and full disclosure.
The origins
The novel coronavirus probably went through natural selection — a series of mutations — that gave it the ability to infect and spread among humans. It could have evolved in animals, or after making the leap to people. Studies show that the genetic material in the current virus is an 82 percent match for the earlier SARS virus; another type of coronavirus found in bats is an 89 percent match. Some but not all of the early victims had visited a Wuhan seafood market where live animals were also sold, a so-called wet market. A more troubling explanation is that the coronavirus was inadvertently spread from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which had carried out research on bat coronaviruses and possessed a biosafety level 4 facility, the most secure for handling highly pathogenic and infectious diseases. It is not beyond possibility that an accident or spill occurred. Most experts say there is no evidence that China deliberately engineered the virus as a weapon. Enough of that conspiracy talk. But whether the source was an animal or an inadvertent spill, more investigation is needed. China ought to be absolutely transparent about what it finds.
The first coverup
After the 2002-2003 SARS disaster, in which the spreading infection was concealed, China put in place an infectious disease reporting system that was supposedly immune from meddling. The information would go straight to Beijing. But when unusual cases of illness that looked like pneumonia began to accumulate in Wuhan in December, the system broke down. Local officials attempted to clamp down on information. When eight doctors in the city expressed concern about the new sickness, they were reprimanded for spreading rumors. One of them, Li Wenliang, a 34-year-old ophthalmologist, later died of the virus. He had spoken up in an online chat group on Dec. 30. At the time, the Wuhan health commission was telling hospitals not to say anything publicly. Another doctor, Ai Fen, who had originally alerted Dr. Li, has now gone missing.
The second coverup
In the critical early weeks of January, as the virus spread, the local and national governments kept the lid on public information. We know from leaked transcripts that President Xi Jinping has said he was aware of the virus spread on Jan. 7. A pair of annual party meetings were held in Wuhan from Jan. 12 to 17, and a huge potluck supper for 40,000 families was held Jan. 18. In that period, a city health commission issued public statements that no new cases were detected.
On Jan. 14, the head of China’s National Health Commission, Ma Xiaowei, laid out a grim assessment of the situation in a confidential teleconference with provincial health officials. According to a memo of the session, disclosed by the Associated Press, he said the situation was “severe and complex,” and “clustered cases suggest that human-to-human transmission is possible.” The memo said “the risk of transmission and spread is high. All localities must prepare for and respond to a pandemic.” The National Health Commission issued a 63-page document on response procedures, but it was labeled “internal” — “not to be spread on the Internet,” and “not to be publicly disclosed.” But the very next day, Li Qun, head of China’s disease control emergency center, told state television that “the risk of sustained human-to-human transmission is low.”
......
Gautam

Leonard
BRFite
Posts: 183
Joined: 15 Nov 2000 12:31

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Leonard » 18 Apr 2020 01:21

The real stat's as OPPOSED to SHANGHAI stat's -- Maybe the 8 Millions Cell phones dropping off the BOOKs is probably WAY closer to the truth ?

From the WH Orange Tweety Bird ..

>>China has just announced a doubling in the number of their deaths from the Invisible Enemy. It is far higher than that and far higher than the U.S., not even close!
<<

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2458
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Apr 2020 01:56

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vitamin-d- ... penfreereg
Vitamin D and Coronavirus Disparities
Supplements may promote immunity, especially in people with darker skin.
By Vatsal G. Thakkar, April 16, 2020

Black Americans are dying of Covid-19 at a higher rate than whites. Socioeconomic factors such as gaps in access to health care no doubt play a role. But another possible factor has been largely overlooked: vitamin D deficiency that weakens the immune system.
Researchers last week released the first data supporting this link. They found that the nations with the highest mortality rates—Italy, Spain and France—also had the lowest average vitamin D levels among countries affected by the pandemic. Vitamin D is produced by a reaction in the skin to the ultraviolet rays in sunlight. Many Americans are low in vitamin D, but those with darker skin are at a particular disadvantage because melanin inhibits the vitamin’s production. As an Indian-American, my skin type is Fitzpatrick IV, or “moderate brown.” Compared with my white friends, I need double or triple the sun exposure to synthesize the same amount of vitamin D, so I supplement with 5,000 international units of vitamin D3 daily, which maintains my level in the normal range. Most African-Americans are Fitzpatrick type V or VI, so they would need even more.
This requires further study, but earlier research is suggestive. In 2018 a longitudinal study by researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital looked at whether vitamin D supplementation had any health benefits, specifically in regard to heart disease and cancer. The overall conclusion was that it didn’t, for most people. Yet buried in the results was one that should have made headlines: Vitamin D supplementation in African-Americans reduced cancer risk 23%. How? Cancer cells develop regularly in most animals, including humans, as the result of toxic injuries or glitches in DNA replication, but a healthy immune system destroys them. There is evidence that low vitamin D levels make the immune system go blind.
......
Gautam

Lohit
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 28 Feb 2019 01:03

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Lohit » 18 Apr 2020 02:18

Luc Montaigner the f guy who discovered the HIV virus and got the f Noble prize for it in '08, says COVID was lab made :D

Please google this for sources. Only french new agencies and fringe sources covering this rn. However this is 100% confirmed- here's the vid for folks who follow french: https://mobile.twitter.com/BBR4369/stat ... 4200720388

Lohit
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 28 Feb 2019 01:03

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Lohit » 18 Apr 2020 02:22

g.sarkar wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-chinas-authoritarian-system-made-the-pandemic-worse/2020/04/17/2a72c652-80ba-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html
How China’s authoritarian system made the pandemic worse
By Editorial Board, April 17, 2020

SOMETIME IN November or December of last year, a


F***** WaPo!!!!!!

China didn't make pandemic worse. China MADE the pandemic!!!

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2458
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Apr 2020 04:40

Lohit wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-chinas-authoritarian-system-made-the-pandemic-worse/2020/04/17/2a72c652-80ba-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html
How China’s authoritarian system made the pandemic worse
By Editorial Board, April 17, 2020

SOMETIME IN November or December of last year, a

F***** WaPo!!!!!!
China didn't make pandemic worse. China MADE the pandemic!!!

This was a subtle Chinese propaganda. But why? Money of course, naach meri bulbul ki paisa mileyga.
Gautam

Y. Kanan
BRFite
Posts: 807
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Y. Kanan » 18 Apr 2020 11:49

syam wrote:Since we can't do much to the virus and the infected more than what we are already doing, I have plan for rebooting the economy.

We have to divide the society into two groups based on the resistance to the virus. one group which is less vulnerable to virus will run the economy. other group which is more vulnerable to the virus will live in quarantine places.

Basically we are building a big database of people who are fit to work. There should be some sort of license for each person to get back into active society. If he doesn't meet the criteria, he will live outside the active society.

yeah, very similar to what bill gates proposed. but without the costly vaccine part. imo, we have to reboot the society and at the same time also do the lock down part. if chini bots indexing this post, please consider it. you have many ghost cities. can easily shift the vulnerable folks there.

key part of the plan is, to find the less vulnerable people from the huge data base. I bet chinis have full data regarding the disease. I am sure they can make list of such people.


Rediculous IMO. This kind of massive disruption is not necessary when we're only talking about saving less than 1% of the population. Let's have some perspective here; we all die by the tens of thousands every day of all and sundry causes. Why destroy society over a relatively harmless virus?

amar_p
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby amar_p » 18 Apr 2020 12:08

Lohit wrote:Luc Montaigner the f guy who discovered the HIV virus and got the f Noble prize for it in '08, says COVID was lab made :D

Please google this for sources. Only french new agencies and fringe sources covering this rn. However this is 100% confirmed- here's the vid for folks who follow french: https://mobile.twitter.com/BBR4369/stat ... 4200720388


Luc Montaigner says that in the computer based analysis of Covid RNA he and a few of his friends performed, they found that bat RNA was spliced expertly with certain sequences from HIV virus with meticulous care to create Covid19. The objective could have been to create a vaccine against HIV. The spliced HIV sequences appear to be designed to modify antigen sites for this purpose.

Curiously he goes on to say that they were not the first ones to report this, a group of reputed Indian researchers published a report stating the same but they later withdrew the report, presumably under pressure.

Anyone knows who these Indian researchers are and their report?

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3792
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby arshyam » 18 Apr 2020 12:17

amar_p wrote:Curiously he goes on to say that they were not the first ones to report this, a group of reputed Indian researchers published a report stating the same but they later withdrew the report, presumably under pressure.

Anyone knows who these Indian researchers are and their report?

IIRC, there were some reports in the early pages of the resource thread.

[EDIT]

Here they are, the paper was from some people in IIT-D. We too quickly dismissed the paper - I could find a few posts in this vein. I am no virologist, so I don't have an opinion either way, so make of it what you will.

Posted: 01 Feb 2020 01:27
vijayk wrote:
नम्रता Retweeted

Anand Ranganathan

@ARanganathan72

@ARanganathan72
Oh my god. Indian scientists have just found HIV (AIDS) virus-like insertions in the 2019-nCov virus that are not found in any other coronavirus. They hint at the possibility that this Chinese virus was designed ["not fortuitous']. Scary if true. https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf…


Posted: 01 Feb 2020 14:10
vinod wrote:
vijayk wrote:
This study by Indian scientists is being written off. Its not peer-reviewed.
Basically, they have compared the 2029-nCov to SARS, and found the differences and compared to viruses. They say these differences matched bits in HIV. This cannot happen as evolutionary but inserted!

But, it seems these 4 different sequences can be found in many things not just virus. Moreover, 2 are not exact match and hence to claim they were inserted is not right.

Anyway, this only feeds conspiracy theories.


Posted: 01 Feb 2020 15:12
Aarvee wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-contains-hiv-insertions-stoking-fears-over-artificially-created-bioweapon

A bit more about the HIV protein similarity. If we read the comments to the original biorxiv article, multiple posters suggest valid points junking the similarity.

Basically, the authors claim 4 different stretches of protein sequence match two different proteins of HIV. But the stretches of proteins are quite short to give confidence. They are between 8 and 12 amino acid long i.e. 24 and 36 bases of RNA long.

The confidence level in such short sequence match being significant is quite low.


Posted: 04 Feb 2020 22:36
madhu wrote:Putting the dots without connecting them on novel coronavirus (2019 nCoV)

Dot 1) BSL4 lab in china is located in wuhan where 2019 nCoV started.

Dot 2) Jul 14, 2019, CBC News, states Chinese researcher escorted out of BSL4 lab canada. Cheng has published research papers on HIV infections, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), E. coli infections and Creutzfeldt-Jakob Syndrome.

Dot 3) October 18, 2019 co-hosted by the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation conducted, An exercise simulated the outbreak of a novel coronavirus, modelled largely on SARS, with no known vaccines code name "Event 201"

Dot 4) first anounsement of outbrack of 2019 nCoV on Jan 2020

Dot5 ) jan 27 2020, CBC News, publishs "
Online claims that Chinese scientists stole coronavirus from Winnipeg lab have 'no factual basis'"

Dot 6) lanset, medical journal publish a paper on jan 30 2020, that states 2019 nCoV fatality of 11%, infection of 85% within 6 feet. WHO states Ro = 2.5 to 5

Dot 7) jan 31, 2020, indian scientest publish paper on Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1

Dot 8) Feb 2, 2020 thai doctor reports cocktail of flu and HIV drugs to treat coronavirus cases with success


Here's the actual paper they published:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... ticle-info
Abstract

We are currently witnessing a major epidemic caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV). The evolution of 2019-nCoV remains elusive. We found 4 insertions in the spike glycoprotein (S) which are unique to the 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses. Importantly, amino acid residues in all the 4 inserts have identity or similarity to those in the HIV-1 gp120 or HIV-1 Gag. Interestingly, despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site. The finding of 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV, all of which have identity /similarity to amino acid residues in key structural proteins of HIV-1 is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature. This work provides yet unknown insights on 2019-nCoV and sheds light on the evolution and pathogenicity of this virus with important implications for diagnosis of this virus.


Author Information

Prashant Pradhan$12, Ashutosh Kumar Pandey$1, Akhilesh Mishra$1, Parul Gupta1, Praveen Kumar Tripathi1, Manoj Balakrishnan Menon1, James Gomes1, Perumal Vivekanandan*1 and Bishwajit Kundu*1

1Kusuma School of biological sciences, Indian institute of technology, New Delhi-110016, India
2Acharya Narendra Dev College, University of Delhi, New Delhi-110019, India

↵*Corresponding authors- email: bkundu@bioschool.iitd.ac.in, vperumal@bioschool.iitd.ac.in
Last edited by arshyam on 18 Apr 2020 12:39, edited 1 time in total.

syam
BRFite
Posts: 749
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 00:13

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby syam » 18 Apr 2020 12:22

g.sarkar wrote:Divide humans into Eloi and Morlocks?
Gautam

I must confess I didn't get the reference earlier. i guess i am decades too late to get most of the brf things. natural calamities reshaped the world over the time, sirji. we better consider the worst case scenario too.

Y. Kanan wrote:Rediculous IMO. This kind of massive disruption is not necessary when we're only talking about saving less than 1% of the population. Let's have some perspective here; we all die by the tens of thousands every day of all and sundry causes. Why destroy society over a relatively harmless virus?

Massive disruption already happened. supply chains are broken. borders came into picture. 70% of the world sitting at home. None of us see any light at the end of the tunnel. I don't see how the virus can be harmless.

If you can, please think about worst case situation too. we need to explore all options available to us.

Lohit
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 28 Feb 2019 01:03

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Lohit » 18 Apr 2020 12:32

amar_p wrote:
Anyone knows who these Indian researchers are and their report?



Google IIT delhi coronavirus hiv

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5835
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vishvak » 18 Apr 2020 12:48

>>China has just announced a doubling in the number of their deaths from the Invisible Enemy. It is far higher than that and far higher than the U.S., not even close!
<<

Time to be more transparent than 'millions left for holidays' kind of loose talk so others don't have to be less sharp even if locally less transparent with regional bias.
We have to divide the society into two groups based on the resistance to the virus

Non eventful early movers will then cover most important things while bystanders will be left to be browbeaten to declare on blank form about absence of resistance of China virus, or not. A simple way to divide in terms of believers of resistance or something like that, not religion per se.

Reminds of 'aboriginal' people of Andaman and Nicobar who shoot arrows and kill anyone approaching for fear of pandemic. Resistance to virus or entertaining early movers and controls of medicine field exclusively is not a just solution perhaps but medication and avoidance is more important.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4610
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 18 Apr 2020 12:56

syam wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:Divide humans into Eloi and Morlocks?
Gautam

I must confess I didn't get the reference earlier. i guess i am decades too late to get most of the brf things. natural calamities reshaped the world over the time, sirji. we better consider the worst case scenario too.

Y. Kanan wrote:Rediculous IMO. This kind of massive disruption is not necessary when we're only talking about saving less than 1% of the population. Let's have some perspective here; we all die by the tens of thousands every day of all and sundry causes. Why destroy society over a relatively harmless virus?

Massive disruption already happened. supply chains are broken. borders came into picture. 70% of the world sitting at home. None of us see any light at the end of the tunnel. I don't see how the virus can be harmless.

If you can, please think about worst case situation too. we need to explore all options available to us.


To be fair, those closing of borders, broken supply chains, and other massive disruptions came from state reaction to the virus not the virus itself. This was not black plague which killed half the population to create disruption without any help from human policies. Also, you can't restart an economy from the Black Plague. You could with this thing provided that you are willing accept a certain number of (mostly older, retired) people dying.

The truth is at some point, the lockdowns have to be lifted so that people don't begin starving. But before they starve, they'll revolt. A few more weeks of this, people will go from fear of the disease to fear of not being able to provide for their families and they'll break quarantine across the board.

This is happening even rich nations like the US. Minnesota is a wealthy state but people are lining up in massive lines for donated food.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarleneArdoin/status/1251404071153446913
Marlene Ardoin
@MarleneArdoin
Minneapolis, Minnesota: Cars line up at a drive-thru food pantry.

Image



https://mobile.twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1250889629127106561
Ben Riley-Smith
@benrileysmith
Well this is pretty alarming. Across America anti-lockdown protests are now emerging. Hundreds gather at state Capitols, sometimes with guns, demanding restrictions are lifted.

Top L - Michigan
Top R - Ohio
Bottom L - Kentucky
Bottom R - North Carolina


chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4610
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 18 Apr 2020 13:06

The whole lockdown/quarantine thing started with the chinks at Wuhan. That's because it's an authoritarian shithole and that's how it will react when confronted with a new virus.

Now everyone thinks they need to go into a lockdown because f--ing Cheen did it.

What if this thing had begun in some other country? And there were no lockdown? Anywhere else and there would certainly not be a lockdown. The idea of locking down a whole city of 11M was unthinkable -- never mind whole countries -- before the chinis did it at Wuhan. Had it originated anywhere else and I can almost guaranteed you that we would be handling this in a less disruptive way.
today.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3792
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby arshyam » 18 Apr 2020 13:22

chola wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1250889629127106561
Ben Riley-Smith
@benrileysmith
Well this is pretty alarming. Across America anti-lockdown protests are now emerging. Hundreds gather at state Capitols, sometimes with guns, demanding restrictions are lifted.

Top L - Michigan
Top R - Ohio
Bottom L - Kentucky
Bottom R - North Carolina


From that thread:
Ben Riley-Smith
@benrileysmith
·
Apr 17
But to stress - this is a very very small number of people. Signs are a majority of America abiding by rules (as polls suggest and White House reiterated every day). So shouldn’t be blown out of proportion.

I always find it interesting to see how they put it in context, and convey that these are not "mainstream ppl" and is not real amreeka. But when it comes to the turd world, any one random event would be spun against the entire country. Like a certain O'bomber lecturing the mudi about tolerance and what not, and the bhestern media cheering him on for carrying the burden. Interesting, indeed.

syam
BRFite
Posts: 749
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 00:13

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby syam » 18 Apr 2020 14:08

vishvak wrote:Non eventful early movers will then cover most important things while bystanders will be left to be browbeaten to declare on blank form about absence of resistance of China virus, or not. A simple way to divide in terms of believers of resistance or something like that, not religion per se.

Reminds of 'aboriginal' people of Andaman and Nicobar who shoot arrows and kill anyone approaching for fear of pandemic. Resistance to virus or entertaining early movers and controls of medicine field exclusively is not a just solution perhaps but medication and avoidance is more important.

China already has advantage of more data and authoritarian ruling system. Even one month delay can increase the gap b/w our two nations. We are looking at minimum 6 months gap now. whether we agree or not, the world will turn into more authoritarian in future. please tell me how we are going to overcome it. better look for solutions at this early stage.

we have some sectors which have to be active irrespective of situation. agriculture for example. if we don't continue the cycle, we will be seeing massive shortage of food for 1.5 billion people.

syam
BRFite
Posts: 749
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 00:13

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby syam » 18 Apr 2020 14:16

chola wrote:The truth is at some point, the lockdowns have to be lifted so that people don't begin starving. But before they starve, they'll revolt. A few more weeks of this, people will go from fear of the disease to fear of not being able to provide for their families and they'll break quarantine across the board.

It's already happening in india. how many of us have good amounts of savings? much worst nightmare taking shape right now. if we don't confront it at early stage, things will go bad real fast. I just saw a poor lady get beaten by police for selling veggies.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 575
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Mollick.R » 18 Apr 2020 16:14

New FDI rules bar automatic investments by neighbouring countries in policy targeted at China

The government has amended the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) policy to discourage opportunistic investment in Indian companies by neighbouring countries in the midst of the the coronavirus pandemic.

As per the new amendment, FDI investments into Indian companies from the neighbouring countries will now require government nod. This will be applicable to all countries that share a land border with India – including China.

The amendment specifies that transfer of ownership of Indian companies arising out of FDI investments from neighbouring countries will now also be subject to government approval.

Similar FDI restrictions were earlier placed on Pakistan and Bangladesh.
.
.
These changes were notified via a press note by the Department for Promotion of Industry and Internal Trade (DPIIT). This comes after China's central bank recently raised stake in Housing Development Finance Corporation to a little over 1 percent.
.
The note states as follows: “A non-resident entity can invest in India, subject to the FDI Policy except in those sectors/activities which are prohibited. However, an entity of a country, which shares land border with India or where the beneficial owner of an investment into India is situated in or is a citizen of any such country, can invest only under the Government route.”


Read full report here........
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/economy/govt-amends-fdi-policy-bars-neighboring-countries-from-investing-with-nod-5162851.html

Just amazing swiftness, with which this govt. works on critical matters.

Really happy to see this came up so quickly. :)

amar_p
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby amar_p » 18 Apr 2020 21:33

My grandmother used to say in America even beggars drive cars. I didn't believe it. Until now.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5835
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vishvak » 18 Apr 2020 22:06

https://apnews.com/bd4c0787766736284464b7d083499962
Difficulty in poor countries
They lack the key tools — a sturdy economy, well-equipped hospitals and large-scale testing — that are needed for finding their way out of the pandemic.

Even a spirited public debate about an exit strategy, common now in Europe, seems unthinkable in countries battered by conflict, corruption or poverty.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4610
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 18 Apr 2020 22:28

amar_p wrote:My grandmother used to say in America even beggars drive cars. I didn't believe it. Until now.


True to an extent. The poor in Amreeki also die mainly from heart disease and diabetes created by obesity not starvation.

That said, those cars in the food pantry lines come from working and middle classes too.

Unlike desis, many goras with good salary live paycheck to paycheck because their lifestyle involves spending to the limit (and over with credit cards.)

A disruption for a month or more would devastate the working class and a good chunk of those who were comfortably in the middle class when they had jobs.

mappunni
BRFite
Posts: 231
Joined: 14 Jul 2017 19:07

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby mappunni » 18 Apr 2020 23:41

chola wrote:
This is happening even rich nations like the US. Minnesota is a wealthy state but people are lining up in massive lines for donated food.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarleneArdoin/status/1251404071153446913
Marlene Ardoin
@MarleneArdoin
Minneapolis, Minnesota: Cars line up at a drive-thru food pantry.

Image



Saar Just to remind you Minneapolis has the highest number of Somali immigrants which should explain the number of cars.

Haresh
BRFite
Posts: 870
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 17:27

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Haresh » 18 Apr 2020 23:45

Now is the time for us to beat back China and renew the international order

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... onal-order

MPs launch inquiry into potential Chinese asset stripping of UK firms

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... f-uk-firms

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 717
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby milindc » 18 Apr 2020 23:52

Y. Kanan wrote:
syam wrote:Since we can't do much to the virus and the infected more than what we are already doing, I have plan for rebooting the economy.

We have to divide the society into two groups based on the resistance to the virus. one group which is less vulnerable to virus will run the economy. other group which is more vulnerable to the virus will live in quarantine places.

Basically we are building a big database of people who are fit to work. There should be some sort of license for each person to get back into active society. If he doesn't meet the criteria, he will live outside the active society.

yeah, very similar to what bill gates proposed. but without the costly vaccine part. imo, we have to reboot the society and at the same time also do the lock down part. if chini bots indexing this post, please consider it. you have many ghost cities. can easily shift the vulnerable folks there.

key part of the plan is, to find the less vulnerable people from the huge data base. I bet chinis have full data regarding the disease. I am sure they can make list of such people.


Rediculous IMO. This kind of massive disruption is not necessary when we're only talking about saving less than 1% of the population. Let's have some perspective here; we all die by the tens of thousands every day of all and sundry causes. Why destroy society over a relatively harmless virus?


Kanan Sir, I agree. You should volunteer in ICU and help medical staff treat those 1% patients. If not, then you should have a different perspective.

Lohit
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 28 Feb 2019 01:03

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Lohit » 19 Apr 2020 00:21

While its becoming clearer that there will be a decoupling from China, not clear if Desh will benefit.

From what I hear, Vietnam, Thailand and Philippines are at the front of the queue to recieve incoming capacity.

Let's hope we dont miss this opportunity.

Suresh S
BRFite
Posts: 787
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 22:19

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Suresh S » 19 Apr 2020 00:50

I was driving towards the hospital to see a patient and again fear grips you. I started thinking about how my life started in a small town in rajasthan next to a temple of Hanumanji . I started listening to Bhajan of Radhaji Kishori Kuch essa ho jai. It immediately had an effect no talk and science and medicine could match. Complete calm . I see a dying person. talk to family. I am surrounded by fear and death and nervousness. A lot of ordinary people doing extra ordinary things in ER.

I started driving back. I think about few days ago when I have a patient with this infection and a dying leg/life. I am able to save him after 2 trips to OR and 8 hours of surgery. Separated from death by a flimsy piece of rubber and a by a flimsy mask. U loose control of a large blood vessel. Somehow quickly gain control. Death just seconds away and billions of viruses trying to reach your face. I think about it later and cold sweat breaks out over my face. No one knows except the surgeon that my risk are higher than anyone else but u continue to do what u have to do.

I think about my Dharmic culture. Nothing can make you see truth than death, the ultimate realty for a human in a way.Not the first time it happened to me. I remember my childhood how a 10 yr old little boy saved a family member,s life. We caught the snake but we do not kill them . We respectfully take it out of town and leave it there. I think of the chinese culture where the same snake is eaten not respected.

My prediction when this virus first started I do not know the exact date no one knows at present. But that was the first day of this new century, India,s century. Century of Dharma. No one may believe me. India may not know it. It is based on the laws of dharma.There is no science, there is this deep instinct , aastha. I see the future India will emerge from this virus threat with minimum damage the only major country to do so. I do not know the reason clearly but it will happen because it is the time of Dharma after a millenia no power in heaven and earth can stop it.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2300
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby sudarshan » 19 Apr 2020 01:27

milindc wrote:Kanan Sir, I agree. You should volunteer in ICU and help medical staff treat those 1% patients. If not, then you should have a different perspective.


If you're going to keep pushing this silly line (this is not the first time), then the reverse should also be true. If you think the lockdown is a good idea, you should volunteer to work with at least some of those affected by it. Like victims of domestic abuse, as an example. Or how about volunteering to prevent suicides?

Not arguing for or against the lockdown, just saying it should work both ways.

I also deliberately didn't pick any economic examples in the above, because then the accusation would be - you only care about money not people (as if people are going to live without money). And if you say - those suicides or domestic abuse cases would have happened anyway, then that's not much different from saying those deaths would have happened anyway.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4529
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vijayk » 19 Apr 2020 01:46

https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/uk-moves- ... nsparency/
UK moves to drop Huawei as 5G vendor, citing China coronavirus transparency

The UK is moving to drop Huawei as a vendor for the country’s 5G cellphone network in a major blow to Communist China over poor coronavirus transparency.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson, now recovering from COVID-19, gave the Chinese company a role in 5G infrastructure this year, squashing opposition last month by 24 votes in the 650-seat House of Commons.
But now, concern about the Chinese Communist Party’s inaccurate reporting on the coronavirus has lawmakers crafting plans for a retreat.
“We need to devise a proper, realistic exit strategy from relying on Huawei,” Conservative Member of Parliament Damian Green told Bloomberg News. “Our telecom providers … need to know the government is determined to drive down Huawei’s involvement to zero percent over a realistic timescale.”

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4473
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Apr 2020 02:19

Good to see them acting responsibly. India and Australia will also vet any Chinese purchases of distressed companies. US actions are awaited.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2458
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 19 Apr 2020 03:39

I hope that the West holds China responsible for its actions. However, I am afraid that once the CV danger has passed, the instinct for quick profits may take over and then it would be business as usual.
Gautam

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4473
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Apr 2020 05:43

I am not so sure.

https://www.bild.de/politik/internation ... l#fromWall


Further a survey reports perhaps 70% of US respondents have negative views of China.

There will be a search for a scapegoat to deflect from failings at home, what better than an oriental, despotic, peer competitor. The process has a certain inevitability.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4529
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vijayk » 19 Apr 2020 05:54

g.sarkar wrote:I hope that the West holds China responsible for its actions. However, I am afraid that once the CV danger has passed, the instinct for quick profits may take over and then it would be business as usual.
Gautam


It will evolve as Progressive shitheads vs Trumpies while Progressive shitheads will be afraid to blame China because China and scum George Soros are funneling millions to these garbage fake news agencies and they are also scared if they question China, T will win again. So they will defend China.

Of course, T will try to divert it all blame to China. If he succeeds in his blame game, he will win but I don't see any execution capability for T. He just can't build a coalition of west to dislodge China. He is a big blabber mouth and can't execute any policy. He is a dog that barks but can he bite?

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 717
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby milindc » 19 Apr 2020 14:13

sudarshan wrote:
milindc wrote:Kanan Sir, I agree. You should volunteer in ICU and help medical staff treat those 1% patients. If not, then you should have a different perspective.


If you're going to keep pushing this silly line (this is not the first time), then the reverse should also be true. If you think the lockdown is a good idea, you should volunteer to work with at least some of those affected by it. Like victims of domestic abuse, as an example. Or how about volunteering to prevent suicides?

Not arguing for or against the lockdown, just saying it should work both ways.

I also deliberately didn't pick any economic examples in the above, because then the accusation would be - you only care about money not people (as if people are going to live without money). And if you say - those suicides or domestic abuse cases would have happened anyway, then that's not much different from saying those deaths would have happened anyway.


Fail to understand what is silly in this line of argument. Is there even a choice without lockdown? Few people like you propose just let the 1% die and we all will be fine. No, that 1% should not be put in harm's way because you want to have your own economic well being. Hope you do realize it is actually quit silly to compare this to suicide or domestic abuse just because you are at loss on the argument put forth of endangering lives.

I actually had to deal with very well do to neighbors who say their business is impacted and like you propose that 1-2% death rate is OK, but of-course they are not Doctors on frontline or govt officials endangering themselves. Economic impact is different than death.

The argument frankly is very similar to let the soldiers die without proper protection in frontline because they signed up for it.

amar_p
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby amar_p » 19 Apr 2020 14:43

The criticism against lockdown is understandable. It only slows down the rate of spread of the virus, does not reduce the total number of infected over time. If anything, it delays the achievement of herd immunity by weeks and months. It comes at an enormous economic cost and hardship for the weaker strata of the society, creates immense amount of psychological stress for everyone. Lockdown is like an Abhimanyu, great entry strategy, no (easy) exist strategy.

So why is nearly every country, and all populous countries doing it?

1. Not to overwhelm hospitals. Assuming X% of people in the population will get a severe infection at some point, no lockdown will lead to rapid spread and a huge influx of cases in a short period. Not all those who can be saved will be able to get required treatment due to this surge, so fatality rate will be much higher.

2. We are still learning how this virus spreads, infects a person, fights off the body's defences, triggers extraordinary immune response that leads to multiple organ failure and death. The fact that lockdown slows down the rate of critical infected cases allows us to use the experience gained and treat other patients better, hopefully saving more lives.

3. Medical staff are humans too. No lockdown = huge surge = increased risk to medical staff and if they breakdown or get infected themselves, we will all be in deep $#!+. Ditto for Govt services, police, essential services personnel. If they survive, the rest of us have a better chance.

4. No lockdown will lead to a surge in infected cases and deaths - leading to panic situation in the population. A panicked population that doesn't know how to save itself will lead to a huge disaster in every imaginable way. Imposing lockdown on an already panicked population will be impossible, leading to riots and unrest.

5. Economies ruined can be revived. The dead can't be brought back to life.

We should stop debating lockdown with specious arguments and focus on discussing the best ways to come out of it. Please.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19509
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Karan M » 19 Apr 2020 14:47

syam wrote:
chola wrote:The truth is at some point, the lockdowns have to be lifted so that people don't begin starving. But before they starve, they'll revolt. A few more weeks of this, people will go from fear of the disease to fear of not being able to provide for their families and they'll break quarantine across the board.

It's already happening in india. how many of us have good amounts of savings? much worst nightmare taking shape right now. if we don't confront it at early stage, things will go bad real fast. I just saw a poor lady get beaten by police for selling veggies.


Dont extrapolate from one example and don't think the GOI is clueless.

The policy is to open up specific regions, areas which are not hotspots.

More informed posts please.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lisa, morem and 29 guests