Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

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SRoy
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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby SRoy » 28 Apr 2020 21:44

So, we are at it again. Poor worded presser to create confusion.

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/i ... tre-123514

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 428639.cms

Since when IT companies needed govt. permission to allow their employees working from home?

I have been working from home on and off / need basis since last decade and more.
My organisations past and present never needed any sarkari permission to let me allow working remotely.

Don't know what kind of stuff the Hon. minister is smoking.

What the Hon. minister should have said that IT workforce should continue working from home until 31st July in larger public interest and their employers must make appropriate arrangements to facilitate the same unless already done so.

From the Economic Times, the NASSCOM comment.
"This was a key demand by IT industry lobby group Nasscom, which had argued that it needed policy stability instead of a month-by-month extension."

This is what I have been arguing in my previous posts. Lack of administrative rigour in handling the pandemic side effects.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Karan M » 29 Apr 2020 00:51

Please read the above article before complaining.

Employees in the Information Technology sector can work from home till July 31 (if their companies allow), as the government has extended the relaxation of VPN norms till the end of July.

The GOI has a role to play in the process and they have done so. And clearly mentioned what their role is. Why this desire to unnecessarily make a mountain out of a molehill?

This again, five seconds on Google.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/loc ... 31494.html

Lockdown: Govt relaxes 'work from home' connectivity norms for IT, BPO firms till July-end
2 min read . Updated: 28 Apr 2020, 11:23 PM IST Leroy Leo

The exemptions included requirement for a security deposit to be paid, authorised VPN, and the need for prior permission for setting up a ‘work from home’ facility
The Karnataka govt also permitted IT companies to continue working from home till July-end


Please. No more cribbing. You haven't bothered to read your own articles and then accuse the Minister of "smoking something".

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby SRoy » 29 Apr 2020 01:18

IT and BPO are not the same thing.

You may argue that the DDM loosely uses ITES/BPO alongside IT.

This distinction matters. Also read the NASSCOM comment.

Last post from my side.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 29 Apr 2020 04:39

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... r-covid-19
China fails to stop racism against Africans over Covid-19
African people sleeping on streets after evictions and prevented from entering shops
Jason Burke in Johannesburg, Emmanuel Akinwotu, and Lily Kuo in Beijing
Mon 27 Apr 2020

African people continue to be barred from hotels, shops and restaurants in Guangzhou, despite Chinese officials assuring governments across Africa that discrimination resulting from efforts to contain the coronavirus outbreak would stop. Racist discrimination in Guangzhou earlier this month caused outrage in Africa, provoking rare official protests to China by several countries. Africans in the city who were contacted recently by the Guardian said they still faced hostility and racism, prompted by fears they may be carriers of Covid-19.
Frank Nnabugwu, a Nigerian businessman who has lived in Guangzhou for a year, said he was not allowed to return to his rented accommodation last week after being released from two weeks’ quarantine. “The security guards said to us: ‘No foreigners are allowed’. I was upset, very upset. I slept on the street,” the 30-year-old said. Police eventually found a hotel willing to rent Nnabugwu a room.
“We use the receptionist to order food,” Nnabugwu said. “If they [food delivery companies] know it is a foreigner ordering food they will not come. You cannot buy anything in a shop; if you go in they will cover their face and chase you out.” Kidus Mulugeta, an Ethiopian who moved to China four years ago to study mechanical engineering, said the atmosphere in Guangzhou had changed rapidly. “It was so fast,” he said. “I went into quarantine … We were treated fine. Then we came out. Everything was different, uncomfortable. Like Chinese people changed their minds.” Mulugeta, who has a job offer at a Chinese company when he graduates, said many African people found it impossible to rent accommodation and hadn’t been allowed into supermarkets. “They say ‘no foreigners’, but if it’s a Russian or European, they allow white people to enter,” he said.
......
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/ ... 25672.html
Complaints of racism mar China's coronavirus response
Race-based COVID-19 containment measures in Guangzhou evolve into major test of China-Africa relations.
by Betsy Joles, 25 Apr 2020

Lewis was at the hospital where he interns when he saw videos on social media of a black man being chased in the street by police.
When the 23-year-old medical student from Sierra Leone checked his phone, he had missed calls and messages from friends in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou who had also seen the video, and there was a notice in Chinese saying that Africans were "importing" the virus and needed to be quarantined. Then, local authorities came to the hospital where Lewis (who asked that his name be changed for fear of reprisals) worked and told him he needed to quarantine, too. They showed him a government notice that said if he had returned to China that day, had been in contact with anyone infected with the virus, or had COVID-19 symptoms, he would have to undergo quarantine, Lewis told Al Jazeera.
He had not been to Wuhan, believed to be the origin of the new coronavirus which causes COVID-19, and had not left Guangzhou since the outbreak had started months before. In fact, he had spent most of his time in the hospital or in his room, a five-minute walk away.
Lewis, who has been in China for four years and speaks the language, argued back and forth with the officials for nearly two hours. He was part of the medical staff and had been working in a hospital with Chinese doctors since the outbreak began, he told them. He would agree to be tested for the virus, but if he was going to be put under quarantine, his Chinese colleagues would have to go with him. When officials continued to insist, he refused. "Is it just because I'm African?" he asked the health official. "Then, I won't be quarantined."
.......
Gautam

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Y. Kanan » 29 Apr 2020 08:57

Pointless rambling post deleted.

For now, given your obvious distraught frame of mind wherein you are unable to frame any coherent reasoning, you are not getting a warning despite your obnoxious claims vs forum members. A next post on the same lines will invite one, and also get you a posting hiatus. Your choice.

Mod note

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Deans » 29 Apr 2020 09:42

While I am of the view that there is unnecessary panic over Corona (I published a piece on linkedin last month when lock-down started) and that the continued lockdown will cause more harm than good, there is a point of view I need to acknowledge.
Every government has to choose between difficult and unpopular choices. No matter what action they take, there will be criticism.
When a lock-down strategy has been embraced governments across the political spectrum (from very liberal to dictatorial) it would be a very brave or very foolish govt, who would do something different - Sweden is not a comparison, their situation is very different.
The govt has `skin in the game'. They are accountable to voters for their actions. I am not.

Where a country is less tech oriented, its citizens less educated and resources limited, the need for state intervention in an emergency is greater (e.g. India). Even some of the most conformist and disciplined countries in the world - Singapore, Korea and Japan have a lock-down and need the govt to tell them what to do, because the populace cannot implement what you term common sense.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Atmavik » 29 Apr 2020 11:18

the initial challenge was to flatten the curve. the next part is to keep the curve flat until there is a vaccine. the economic pain is very real but the alternative Is scary.

many states in US are opening for business this week and we have to see how the infection count grows.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby RamSuresh » 29 Apr 2020 13:19

Y. Kanan wrote:
Karan M wrote:Please don't spread FUD on BR


But don't let me cause any of you to embrace critical thinking and perhaps do a little research on your own,


What people pointed out was lack of critical thinking or research on your part to quote Sweden's experience. The answers to you are specific. Please be equally specific in your response.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby nam » 29 Apr 2020 15:22

UK for a week, went the "herd immunity" train and kept the school open. Despite brave faces, the UK government wasn't sure how long they can sustain.

There was furious debate on tv, on how the country be kept open when hundreds of people will be dying everyday. UK then changed their decision at the end of the week and went in to lockdown. It is not possible for regular governments to do something "different", when lives are been lost.

Within a week or 2, deaths starting hitting 800+ per day and the government was criticized for not locking down earlier!

Sweden is not the example to hold...neither is NZ or Iceland.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Karan M » 29 Apr 2020 18:09

SRoy wrote:IT and BPO are not the same thing.

You may argue that the DDM loosely uses ITES/BPO alongside IT.

This distinction matters. Also read the NASSCOM comment.

Last post from my side.


At this point you are really clutching at straws here.

Govt relaxes 'work from home' connectivity norms for IT, BPO firms till July-end

Where does it say IT = BPO? Again, this is some interpretation of yours. There is a comma between the two. Fact remains, that the *IT sector* requires the above exemption which the Govt has given.

NASSCOM may ask for anything, but the Govt has multiple factors to consider here, they made their choice as is their prerogative.

Your comments were unwarranted.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Karan M » 29 Apr 2020 18:26

nam wrote:UK for a week, went the "herd immunity" train and kept the school open. Despite brave faces, the UK government wasn't sure how long they can sustain.

There was furious debate on tv, on how the country be kept open when hundreds of people will be dying everyday. UK then changed their decision at the end of the week and went in to lockdown. It is not possible for regular governments to do something "different", when lives are been lost.

Within a week or 2, deaths starting hitting 800+ per day and the government was criticized for not locking down earlier!

Sweden is not the example to hold...neither is NZ or Iceland.


It is not merely a question of whether a Govt has the strength to refuse or accept these methods, it is common sense that the limited pool of health care respondents will break down if a pandemic occurs and it disproportionately punishes them.

Again, some will die on the job, others will collapse, some will stop turning up. Great, you just decimated or actually annihilated a precious pool of scarce personnel.

This economic argument is bizarre beyond belief.

If you dont have a disciplined lockdown, you will have an undisciplined one with people stopping work, disappearing once the pandemic starts going widespread, entire supply chains thrown into disarray, rioting, fighting for supplies.

You will have a full fledged economic collapse, and if it takes off, it will not stop. Not one sector will be insulated.

How is that better than a disciplined shutdown and essential services kept going on, and ID, Contact Tracing and Quarantine of high risk individuals/groups plus treatment?

Some people simply seem to have turned their brains off and assumed that because something says "average x rate", it won't apply to them, zero skin in the game.

Reminds me of an individual who almost drowns because he read a swimming pool was on average x feet deep and jumps into the deep side.

This is the same. You have to be patient and give the Govt time to put things in place and gradually open things up

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby saumitra_j » 29 Apr 2020 18:47

SRoy wrote:Since when IT companies needed govt. permission to allow their employees working from home?

I have been working from home on and off / need basis since last decade and more.
My organisations past and present never needed any sarkari permission to let me allow working remotely.

Don't know what kind of stuff the Hon. minister is smoking.

What the Hon. minister should have said that IT workforce should continue working from home until 31st July in larger public interest and their employers must make appropriate arrangements to facilitate the same unless already done so.

I am sorry to say but you are not aware of some of the nasty rules that IT companies have to follow regarding SEZ, STPI and so forth which is directly related to taxation of work performed. The reason Government has to give permission is to essentially wave off these rules which force the work to be done from a SEZ/STPI location, especially for developers and people who get billed to the client for work - not counting overheads.

Hon minister is neither wrong, nor smoking. You need to know the taxation/customs rules under which IT, BPO etc operate.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Mollick.R » 29 Apr 2020 22:45

saumitra_j wrote:
SRoy wrote:Since when IT companies needed govt. permission to allow their employees working from home?

I have been working from home on and off / need basis since last decade and more.
My organisations past and present never needed any sarkari permission to let me allow working remotely.

Don't know what kind of stuff the Hon. minister is smoking.

What the Hon. minister should have said that IT workforce should continue working from home until 31st July in larger public interest and their employers must make appropriate arrangements to facilitate the same unless already done so.

I am sorry to say but you are not aware of some of the nasty rules that IT companies have to follow regarding SEZ, STPI and so forth which is directly related to taxation of work performed. The reason Government has to give permission is to essentially wave off these rules which force the work to be done from a SEZ/STPI location, especially for developers and people who get billed to the client for work - not counting overheads.

Hon minister is neither wrong, nor smoking. You need to know the taxation/customs rules under which IT, BPO etc operate.


+1


Here are some details

SEZ employees can work from home after DoT nod
BY SURABHI AGARWAL, ET BUREAU | UPDATED: MAR 14, 2020, 08.41 AM IST

New Delhi: Employees at leading IT-BPO companies have been given a go-ahead to work from home, according to a notification by the Department of Telecom and Software Technology Parks of India (STPI). This was a key demand of the IT-BPO industry following the Covid-19 pandemic. Industry association Nasscom has been in talks with the government for more than a week to allow employees of units operating from special economic zones (SEZs) to work from home. In a notification on Friday, the Department of Telecom decided to allow employees operating from SEZs to work from home till April 30. The STPI notification was issued on Thursday and is likely to benefit close to 2 million employees across 3,000 units.
.
.
.

ET reported last week that Nasscom had asked the government to relax rules to allow work-from home for technology and back office staff as a measure to deal with the spread of the Covid-19 virus in India, at least for a month. Nasscom had written a letter to the Department of Telecom secretary Anshu Prakash,...........................
..
The letter requested the government's "urgent intervention" to waive-off the conditions as an emergency measure for a month......................

Full report Here

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/sez-employees-can-work-from-home-after-dot-nod/printarticle/74621405.cms

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby prasannasimha » 29 Apr 2020 22:56

nam wrote:UK for a week, went the "herd immunity" train and kept the school open. Despite brave faces, the UK government wasn't sure how long they can sustain.

There was furious debate on tv, on how the country be kept open when hundreds of people will be dying everyday. UK then changed their decision at the end of the week and went in to lockdown. It is not possible for regular governments to do something "different", when lives are been lost.

Within a week or 2, deaths starting hitting 800+ per day and the government was criticized for not locking down earlier!

Sweden is not the example to hold...neither is NZ or Iceland.

Sweden is a "wonderful" example. Its population(1.02 Crore) is not even that of Bangalore city (1.29 Cr)and has 20302 cases and 2462 deaths and people there are questioning their strategy.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 29 Apr 2020 23:10

I started posting weeks ago about corporate boardrooms on Wall Street seeing returning sales in Cheen.

This has finally gone mainstream with CNN. A lot of MNCs will depend on their China revenue while the rest of the world tries to open up.

Nobody major, including Americans, will want to leave the chini market. The new world order in business strategy for manufacturing will be "Local plus One" instead of just Cheen. But the "plus One" will always be Cheen because of their market size alone.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/investing/china-rebound-american-companies/index.html


Top US companies say sales are improving in China
By Paul R. La Monica, CNN Business
Updated 10:40 AM ET, Wed April 29, 2020

New York (CNN Business)Investors are watching China closely for clues about when a recovery from the coronavirus-induced economic slump may begin in the United States.

Although it's not yet clear that America is anywhere close to bottoming out -- despite the fact that some states are getting ready to reopen for business -- recent earnings reports from blue-chip Western firms with a big presence in China are encouraging.

Sure, data from China itself has been hinting that a rebound is starting to take hold. But many investors and economists take the official numbers from the Chinese government with enough grains of salt to fill the world's oceans.

That's why it's perhaps even more important to hear what executives at large US and European multinationals are saying about a potential turnaround in China. And there are starting to be some cautious signs of optimism.

Big blue chips hopeful that China is turning around

Jeans giant Levi Strauss (LEVI) indicated when it reported earnings earlier this month that consumers are starting to shop again and demand is steadily improving -- even in the epicenter of the coronavirus.

...

Singh added that sales have improved sequentially each week since stores reopened in March. And digital sales in China were up in March compared to a year ago. Gross profit margins are higher as well, Singh said.

Industrial tools maker Snap-on (SNA) also alluded to a possible turnaround in China. CEO Nicholas Pinchuk told analysts on its investor earnings call this month that China is "showing some rays of light."

"Restaurants are opening, and people are driving en masse," Pinchuk said.

Big bank State Street (STT) in April also told analysts that its operations in Hangzhou are returning to normal as well, with about 75% to 80% of its employees there having returned to work after getting the go-ahead to do so in mid-March.

"Initially, people were wearing masks. And now you're seeing a much more normal working environment," said State Street CEO Ronald Philip O'Hanley during the bank's most recent earnings call, referring to the fact that fewer workers in China now were wearing masks.

...

Business conditions across the board seem to be gradually getting better.

BP's (BP) upstream chief financial officer Murray Auchincloss said on a conference call Tuesday that demand in its lubricants business has "begun to recover in China in recent weeks."

Meanwhile, mask and ventilator maker 3M (MMM) said it is also experiencing a rebound in China.

"We're returning to growth in China. It's pretty broad-based," said 3M CEO Michael Roman on a conference call with analysts Tuesday. "We're seeing the economy start to show signs of recovery.."

Even construction equipment giant Caterpillar (CAT), which reported a massive drop in sales from Asia (and China in particular) during the first quarter, is starting to see the signs of proverbial green shoots.

"The situation in China has obviously improved as the pandemic has lessened in that country. And so all of our facilities are operating in China again, and our suppliers are doing much better in China as well," said Caterpillar CEO Jim Umpleby on a conference call Tuesday.

...

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby yensoy » 29 Apr 2020 23:33

Government is not "allowing" or "giving the nod" to people working from home. That is really none of their business (i.e. nobody asked them for permission), it is up to the company, the employee and often the customer. The specific phrases used are by journalists to make things look catchy while going easy on the accuracy.

Government is requiring / mandating companies to let people work from homes. This forces companies to put their efforts into making the WFH arrangements as productive and secure as possible, since they have to pay the employees regardless. It also requires the employees to work from home - so earlier a really strange employee could say "I only work in the office", this is no longer going to be admissible.

Now the customer contract may indeed forbid work done outside the secure facility, but most customers will be willing to make concessions during this period; this could also involve additional auditing, buddy systems etc - so in some sense the government is pushing companies to work out these arrangements because employees aren't coming in to the office anytime soon.

It will also help if Govt allows IT hardware vendors to sell and deliver their products to stuck-at-home IT professionals. As I have said before, equipment dies. 3 appliances conked off in my home since the start of curfew. Stuff will need to be replaced, besides there will be security concerns calling for smartcards, headsets and the like that must be made available to employees.

P.S. I saw the note about the STP/SEZ rules and Govt allowing them to be relaxed. Thanks for the input, yes for those cases that is true Govt needs to give permission.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vijayk » 30 Apr 2020 20:43

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/u ... 2020-04-30

US in talks with India, other 'friends' to restructure global supply chains, says Mike Pompeo
Pompeo said the US government has provided over USD 32 million in funding to support the COVID-19 response in Pacific island countries.

Addressing a news conference in Washington on Wednesday, Pompeo said, "We're working with our friends in Australia, India and Japan, New Zealand, the Republic of Korea, and Vietnam to share information and best practices as we begin to move the global economy forward."

"Our conversation certainly involved global supply chains, keeping them running smoothly, getting our economies back to full strength and thinking about how we restructure the supply change chains to prevent something like this from ever happening again," he said.

"One example of our work together is with India. It has lifted export bans on critical medical supplies, including pharmaceuticals, used to treat some COVID-19 patients,” Pompeo said.

Over the last few weeks, Pompeo has spoken over phone -- at least four times -- with External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar.

Readout of the calls indicated that ensuring global supply chain figured prominently in their conversations.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vijayk » 30 Apr 2020 21:13

https://www.financialexpress.com/econom ... p/1942862/

Yogi Adityanath’s promise to FedEx, Cisco, Adobe: Tailor-made facilities if you move from China to UP

UP government held a video conference with nearly 100 investors and companies from the US.

Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath’s government has proposed to provide several facilities to giant corporations of the US, including FedEx, UPS, Cisco, Adobe, Lockheed Martin, Honeywell, Boston Scientific, and others if they shift factories and bases from China to the state of Uttar Pradesh. After Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s call to the states to use the current situation to woo global companies that want to exit China in the wake of the spread of the coronavirus pandemic, the UP government held a video conference with nearly 100 investors and companies from the US, The Indian Express reported.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 30 Apr 2020 21:40

vijayk wrote:https://www.financialexpress.com/economy/yogi-adityanaths-promise-to-fedex-cisco-adobe-tailor-made-facilities-if-you-move-from-china-to-up/1942862/

Yogi Adityanath’s promise to FedEx, Cisco, Adobe: Tailor-made facilities if you move from China to UP

UP government held a video conference with nearly 100 investors and companies from the US.

Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath’s government has proposed to provide several facilities to giant corporations of the US, including FedEx, UPS, Cisco, Adobe, Lockheed Martin, Honeywell, Boston Scientific, and others if they shift factories and bases from China to the state of Uttar Pradesh. After Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s call to the states to use the current situation to woo global companies that want to exit China in the wake of the spread of the coronavirus pandemic, the UP government held a video conference with nearly 100 investors and companies from the US, The Indian Express reported.


This works out, it will be epochal! The dawn of a new age!

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby panduranghari » 30 Apr 2020 22:30

These are good times compared to whats coming next

Chris Hedges, the Pulitzer-winning journalist, author, and philosopher, is not surprised by America's decline. In places such as the former Yugoslavia, he has personally witnessed what happens when societies fall apart. In his most recent book, "America: The Farewell Tour," Hedges both details the country's many cultural and political crises and what could potentially happen next. The coronavirus crisis has shown his analysis to be eerily prescient.

In this conversation, Hedges warns that the tumult and pain of Trump's coronavirus crisis is but a preview of far worse things in America's future, as social inequality and political failure combine to create a full collapse of the country's already declining standard of living, as well as its ailing democracy.

...A society can change so quickly because the underlying structures are rotten. There is the patina or the veneer of a functioning system, but the foundations of it are so decayed that they can't take the stress. That was true in the Weimar Republic in Germany, before the Nazis took full control. That was true in Yugoslavia before the civil war and ethnic violence. It is true here in the United States too. This country cannot withstand the stress of the coronavirus pandemic. Beyond the obviousness of what the Republicans are doing, the Democratic Party's response to this crisis exemplifies the problems America is facing as a whole.

....I don't think we're going to be able to go back to a time before the coronavirus pandemic. I believe that the coronavirus is going to trigger a decline unlike anything the country has seen since the Great Depression. That is why the business class and other ruling elites are panicking. It is why Trump, the corporate leaders, Republicans and others aligned with them are telling people to go back to work — but to wear masks — which may really not keep them 100% safe.

....And of course, they are all thrilled that nobody can go out in the streets because of the coronavirus pandemic and social distancing. Mass mobilization and civil disobedience is what is needed to defeat the oligarchs and take those first steps necessary to win back an American democracy


....James Baldwin explained why black people don't have midlife crises. Why? Because they do not buy into the myths of America. Black people know that the system in America is rigged. Black people know this when they are children. By comparison, white people buy into these illusions of meritocracy and individualism and American exceptionalism and similar beliefs. That is why the highest rates of suicide right now are among middle-aged white men, because they are finally starting to realize that the system does not care about them.


Interesting times.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby disha » 01 May 2020 00:11



I am just tired of this 'award-winning' journos and philosophers. They do not understand anything and continue to spout nonsense which seems to be valid.

Yes. There is a crises. Yes. There is an income gap that is increasing. And yes, there is a big vacuum that is sucking the money away and putting it in the hands of the few corporates. Yes the class divide is there and is growing and the division just got accelerated.

Here the author quotes:

This country cannot withstand the stress of the coronavirus pandemic. Beyond the obviousness of what the Republicans are doing, the Democratic Party's response to this crisis exemplifies the problems America is facing as a whole.

....I don't think we're going to be able to go back to a time before the coronavirus pandemic. I believe that the coronavirus is going to trigger a decline unlike anything the country has seen since the Great Depression. That is why the business class and other ruling elites are panicking. It is why Trump, the corporate leaders, Republicans and others aligned with them are telling people to go back to work — but to wear masks — which may really not keep them 100% safe.

....And of course, they are all thrilled that nobody can go out in the streets because of the coronavirus pandemic and social distancing. Mass mobilization and civil disobedience is what is needed to defeat the oligarchs and take those first steps necessary to win back an American democracy



In one sentence the author is against people joining back the workforce for their own protection and in another sentence the author wants mass movement which are now clamped due to the pandemic.

Here is the deal. All the pulitzer's and think-tankers speak with fork-tongue so that all sides of the reader take in what appeals to them and other's out the other side creating further divide.

The pandemic is not so great that millions of people are dying on the street. Given that the world went through several wars and famines, this pandemic is a walk in park and is used by the big corporates to become stronger.

Here are the charts on the California counties. The curve is not just 'flattened' (remember the original goal was flatten the curve?) but it is now crushed. Totally crushed. Even in UK several videos are coming out with free medical staff dancing in the corridors of the hospital.

https://projects.sfchronicle.com/2020/coronavirus-map/

All of CA, new cases are <1% of the total positive cases.

And everybody is going about it based on the positive case count. When antibody testing should be instituted now and the true CFR should be identified.

In India itself, the true CFR is being predicted to be somewhere around 0.3% to 0.4%. If that is the case, then that is way behind TB and road accidents.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby darshan » 01 May 2020 00:21

Seeing how Zoom conferencing products are being adopted by all govt bodies, it's hard to believe that US wants to keep distance from anything tainted by Chinese. And there are lot of alternatives to Zoom. From local police to defense contractors have started using zoom products. The mere association with China should have made zoom nobody but certainly that's not the case.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vimal » 01 May 2020 08:33

'WHO should be ashamed' of its role as China's 'public relations agency': Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nHbPL35gbs


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 01 May 2020 10:12

https://theconversation.com/china-austr ... rus-137377
China-Australia relations hit new low in spat over handling of coronavirus
Tony Walker, Adjunct Professor, School of Communications, La Trobe University, April 28, 2020

Australia’s relationship with China is fractured. Arguably, this is the worst moment in Sino-Australian relations since Gough Whitlam normalised ties on his election in December 1972.
The Chinese saying “kill the chicken to frighten the monkey” would seem applicable in Beijing’s reaction to Australia’s push for an investigation into the operations of the World Health Organisation (WHO) – and, by implication, China’s responsibility for the coronavirus pandemic outbreak. Other countries have made similar calls without drawing Beijing’s ire to the same extent. In an interview with The Australian Financial Review, China’s ambassador, Cheng Jingye, lambasted Australian political leaders and warned of economic reprisals. This marks a new and jagged low in relations between the two countries. By any standards, this was an extraordinary step by a Chinese official. Cheng would not have taken it without Beijing’s go-ahead. He accused Australia of “teaming up” with anti-Chinese elements in Washington to “launch a kind of political campaign against China”.
In China’s criticism, Australia is the “chicken” and the US the “monkey” as a recipient of Chinese displeasure. China’s singling out of Australia for harsh criticism and threats of economic reprisals is designed to convey a message to a potentially vulnerable US ally that costs will accrue to countries that, in Beijing’s view, disrespect Chinese sovereignty. Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s lobbying for an inquiry into the WHO in phone calls with foreign leaders, including US President Donald Trump, will have struck the Chinese as more forward-leaning for the leader of a middle power than is necessary.A less costly move, diplomatically, may have been for Morrison simply to have joined France’s Emmanuel Macron and Germany’s Angela Merkel in entirely legitimate calls for an inquiry.
The WHO is far from blameless. Its initial responses were clumsy. But little purpose would be served by diminishing the credibility of the organisation in the middle of a pandemic. Once the global health emergency is brought under control – whenever that might be – stakeholders will have ample time to review their investments in the WHO. In his attempts to shift blame for America’s disastrous initial responses to the pandemic, Trump has sought refuge in criticisms of China and the WHO. Washington’s decision to suspend payments to the organisation is both short-sighted and antagonistic towards global attempts to contain a pandemic whose ravages have far from run their course. This is another example, if example was required, of America failing to exercise global leadership in a time of crisis. In the nearly half century since the Whitlam government ended the diplomatic fudge that the Nationalists on Taiwan represented the whole of China, relations between Canberra and Beijing have proceeded relatively smoothly. On occasions there have been bumps, such as when then Prime Minister Bob Hawke denounced Beijing’s 1989 massacre of student protesters in Tiananmen Square. Or when, in 1996, then Foreign Minister Alexander Downer gave Australia’s support to the deployment of two aircraft carriers adjacent to Taiwan after China fired missiles in its direction.Beijing asserted America’s actions represented a containment threat. However, pushback then against Australia’s support for the US was relatively mild.
......
Gautam

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vera_k » 01 May 2020 21:11

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/politics/us-china-coronavirus-diplomacy-intelligence-donald-trump/index.html

Multiple sources inside the administration say that there is an appetite to use various tools, including sanctions, canceling US debt obligations and drawing up new trade policies, to make clear to China, and to everyone else, where they feel the responsibility lies.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby pankajs » 02 May 2020 01:34

https://twitter.com/ajwsmall/status/1255860369425420289
Andrew Small @ajwsmall

China faces wave of calls for debt relief on ‘Belt and Road’ projects. China "has not formed a plan on dealing with the growing requests" - but the "rules of thumb" laid out are interesting: https://ft.com/content/5a3192 ...
Image

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Karan M » 02 May 2020 01:39

vera_k wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/politics/us-china-coronavirus-diplomacy-intelligence-donald-trump/index.html

Multiple sources inside the administration say that there is an appetite to use various tools, including sanctions, canceling US debt obligations and drawing up new trade policies, to make clear to China, and to everyone else, where they feel the responsibility lies.


Hubba hubba hubbba. I am all for Trump getting re-elected. He genuinely has the potential to cut PRC down to size if the above is true.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby nam » 02 May 2020 02:42

The one prime lesson we have learnt in this pandemic is that, we churn out fabulous & cost effective solution when we face a challenge.

We have seen N99 masks, cheaper test kits etc, respirators etc.

This is the fundamental point which has made US & Russia the superpower they are. Similarly for China & Israel. It is always about being in the fear.

It is always about having an enemy, enemy whose's fear drives innovation. For US it is Russia & China, for Russia & China it is US. They fundamentally feed each other.

Our biggest problem is that the political class has not bothered to create such an enemy. It has allowed them not to spend money on Innovation and paint themselves as whiter than white Ahimsawadi..

Even after decades of war with Pak, it is still not treated as an enemy. No one is driving the population to create innovation to technologically overwhelm Pak.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby nam » 02 May 2020 02:46

Does anyone have any good material on how US went about building the kit required to fight the WW2 without going bankrupt?

GoI needs to go for a massive buying spree from Indian industries. Civilian and Military.

Set aside deficit for couple of years and spend heavily. Need to do something similar to what the US did during the WW2.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 02 May 2020 04:52

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/chinas- ... continent/
China’s Investment in Africa Cannot Buy the Silence of a Continent
“Among the general public in Africa, scenes of discrimination from Guangzhou prompted fury on a scale I have not witnessed before.”
By Deprose Muchena, April 28, 2020

The COVID-19 pandemic has at times brought out the best in humanity; at others it has exposed our flaws. Contrast, for instance, China’s mass donation of COVID-19-fighting equipment to Africa with the mistreatment African migrants have recently faced in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou. Social media footage showed the perceived coronavirus carriers being forcibly evicted from hotels and lodgings and forced to sleep on the streets. One clip showed a restaurant that apparently barred black people from entering. The incidents were quickly “dealt with” by the authorities. China said it had “zero tolerance for discrimination” and was working with local authorities to “improve their working method,” while simultaneously making efforts to discredit the reports. Africa’s leaders seem to have accepted the explanation.
But among the general public in Africa, the scenes from Guangzhou prompted fury on a scale I have not witnessed before on this issue. And people are angry not just about the racism, but also about what they see to be a fundamental imbalance in this supposedly cozy relationship.
There are no prizes for guessing why African governments apply careful diplomacy in their dealings with Beijing. China is the continent’s largest single creditor nation and the business ties of its Belt and Road project stretch from Sudan to South Africa. But on this occasion, those governments are woefully out of tune with their human rights commitments and their people.
African leaders’ responses were timid, or worse sounded like an attempt to apologize on behalf of China. South Africa said the incidents were “inconsistent with the excellent relations that exist between China and Africa,” while a Nigerian minister said the Guangzhou police’s actions were justified. His comments were subsequently reported in Chinese media as “proof” that China did no wrong.
Yet there is a growing sense that these incidents cannot be so easily dismissed. Last week, China’s embassy in Zimbabwe said “it is harmful to sensationalize isolated incidents.” But racism and discrimination against African nationals in China is nothing new. On the contrary, the primary reason for Africans’ indignation is that this grainy social media footage from Guangzhou taps into a history of systemic xenophobia.
China likes to claim relations with African states are “win-win” with “no strings attached,” as Beijing provides infrastructure, technology, and opportunity in exchange for access to natural resources.
But those evicted from homes in Guangzhou, then abandoned by their own governments, are clearly not winners when diplomatic relations trump human rights. It appears that African leaders’ silence on violations against their people in China is the price they are willing to pay for continued business funding and medical aid.
......
Gautam

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby ramana » 02 May 2020 07:18

Folks I think we had enough chit chat over last 10 pages here.
From now on I want focused discussion on certain economic aspects only. Any non germane post will get 3 day ban

Specific aspects of economy.

#International trade
#IndianManufacturing
#IndianHealthcare
#IndianAgriculture
#Indian education
#IndianFinancialSector
#IndianMilitary

Any thing I missed.

Please preface hashtag

Am not interested in short term reopening Indian economy as that NaMo and all are highly focused on and will do it. But what about day after tomorrow figuratively?

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 02 May 2020 13:10

#International trade

Signs of how global travel and trade will be conducted for the immediate future.

1) Cheen is the first major economy to re-open, MNCs have use their operations there as a template,

2) As the top trading nation, its approach will impact international trade everywhere,

3) Cheen's "Five One" rule prioritizes the virus containment and the local economy over trade. It allows only one airline to serve one country from one Chinese city to one foreign city with no more than one flight a week. And it doesn't matter how big that country is.

4) Gradually opening to other "safe" countries. For Cheen it is South Korea,

5) Travel within Cheen has been freed with quarantines no longer placed on travelers from domestic origins.

Global travel and trade has broken down. Even Cheen has turned sharply inward. As countries begin to clear the virus, they'll begin connecting with the ones they deem safe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/05/02/united-airlines-goes-big-in-china-hoping-to-resume-four-flights-in-june-to-beijing-chengdu-and-shanghai/#3906ae642d5e


United Airlines Goes Big In China, Hoping To Resume Four Flights In June To Beijing, Chengdu And Shanghai

Will HortonSenior Contributor
Aerospace & Defense

United Airlines UAL wants to make a strong return to China in June and will “pencil in” a re-launch of passenger service with four flights to three cities – Beijing, Chengdu, and Shanghai.

...

China has implemented the so-called “Five One” rule for international passenger flights. That limits one airline to serving one country from one Chinese city to one foreign city with no more than one flight a week.

That would allow United to fly to mainland China once a week on only one route. Instead, United wants to fly four routes, three from San Francisco to Beijing Capital, Chengdu and Shanghai Pudong, and a fourth from Newark to Shanghai.

...

Pilots have been frustrated with China’s arrival and quarantine procedures for crew, which can change and vary by city. United and American are routing cargo-only flights via Tokyo, allowing a different crew to fly from Tokyo to China and back without a layover in China. But passengers prefer travelling non-stop.

The “Five One” restriction was implemented in March as China saw a surge of imported cases – Chinese nationals returning from abroad with coronavirus. The rule let China concentrate resources and better screen incoming passengers.

Cargo-only flights, including those on passenger jets without customers, are exempt from the rule. United’s 220 weekly cargo-only flights include 39 to mainland China via a stopover in Tokyo. Another 17 weekly flights are non-stop to Hong Kong.

..

The “Five One” rule is irrespective of country size, creating a shortage of capacity between China and the U.S. That partially prompted United last month to consider resuming a flight between San Francisco and Shanghai.

...

Since China implemented international flight restrictions, imported coronavirus cases have decreased and China has been able to establish screening protocol.

China has not announced any loosening of the rule, but has made significant steps to recover from COVID-19.

Beijing has lifted its domestic quarantine and will no longer require visitors from elsewhere in the country to isolate for 14 days upon arrival to the capital. The rest of mainland China largely already has free movement.

...

China and South Korea plan for a gradual resumption of business travel. There are strong ties, especially for manufacturing, between the two countries.

Manufacturing resumption has held at around 70-80%, according to Trivium, and China is eager to further boost recovery. Business travel from the U.S. would also be important.

United’s largest corporate customer is Apple AAPL , which spent $35 million a year just on the San Francisco-Shanghai route, buying 50 business class seats a day, according to internal United marketing material that was made public.

“Production was back at typical levels toward the end of March,” Apple CEO Tim Cook told investors this week. There was some weakness, CFO Luca Maestri conceded, saying that at the end of March Apple was in a “good supply position for most of our product lines.”

“We have been gratified by the resilience and adaptability of our global supply chain,” Cook said.


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby KLNMurthy » 04 May 2020 22:48

SRoy wrote:
yensoy wrote:Regarding policies that get announced, rolled back or not clarified... this is an ailment from before that Chinesevirus can't magically cure. Poor drafting language, poor enumeration of rules, poor coverage of scenarios, poor communication of rules and intent to various regional, local and departmental administrators is deeply entrenched in the Indian bureaucracy - however with the lockdown in place, there is even lesser room to negotiate, no"intermediaries "who can swing things, more fear by bureaucrats of being found in violation that the rules are being enforced even more stringently than they would have. Case in point - the pathetic refusal to deboard the mortal remains of 3 UAE based Indians at Delhi airport.


Fair observation.

Therefore, I don't see the reason for other posters to be defensive about this.
Bureaucracy is a problem and we are working around it.

My "whine", if there is, that Modi govt. had enough time to tame this bureaucracy.

How much time, in your estimation, is "enough?" And can you spell out on what factors and analysis your estimation is based?

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby SRoy » 04 May 2020 22:57

One term is enough.
Not every solution is written in some book and there is no reason to restrict yourselves to rule books. Everything is possible in statecraft. You should get the hint.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Rampy » 04 May 2020 23:10

Very Interesting @sroy bureaucracy that has engraved itself for 70 years could be changed in 5 years? Unless you believe folks who don't agree can be shot

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby SRoy » 05 May 2020 00:00

Rampy wrote:Very Interesting @sroy bureaucracy that has engraved itself for 70 years could be changed in 5 years? Unless you believe folks who don't agree can be shot

Re-read my post word by word.
If you want to go by the book, take your time. Don't how old are you. But our future generations will live in Sharia land for sure.
The 60s/70s Naxals and Khalistanis are two examples. Not every problem has a solution from written manuals.

Those rendered irrelevant need not be administered strong arm.

PS: Don't bother what I wrote. BRF discusses geo-political topics freely nowadays, the topics which used to get us banned us 10 years ago. So, things will happen when right people are in power.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 05 May 2020 00:54

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 42778.html
Has the U.S.-China Cold War Now Begun?
By Michael Auslin, March 26, 2020

Among the biggest victims of the coronavirus pandemic is the fiction of amicable U.S.-China relations. Those ties have been worsening for years, even before President Trump decided to call out Beijing’s predatory behavior starting in 2017. With the crisis now pitting America and China openly against each other, it seems impossible to salvage the old working ties. Washington now faces an unambiguously adversarial relationship with the Chinese Communist Party, one in which global ideological blocs may be drawn. Losing this new cold war would be a grievous blow to global transparency and liberal order. It would also threaten a significant reduction of American power and influence abroad.
Even just a few months ago, it appeared that traditional engagement between the United States and China might survive. The trade agreement was the most visible sign that elites in both countries wanted to return to some level of normalcy. Outstanding issues such as Huawei and 5G were slouching towards a state of permanent irresolution, the imprisonment of a million Uighurs was largely forgotten, and cultural and student exchanges were escaping any serious interruption. A stalemate in the South China Sea was also emerging, with the Trump administration dramatically increasing the number of freedom-of-navigation operations, but with the Chinese dug into their new military bases. All that has been swept away by the coronavirus crisis.
What China Did and Did Not Do
It is important both politically and morally to retain clarity about what has happened. Arguments that Washington and Beijing must work together to defeat the pandemic are foundering on the rocks of the Chinese government’s freely-chosen actions. CCP General Secretary Xi Jinping decided early on that concealing the truth about the outbreak, both at home and abroad, was a national priority. This put his country on a collision course with Washington and the world.
Xi’s government has consistently denied the hard evidence that Chinese officials knew about human-to-human transmission at least in December, failing to warn the globe and misleading the credulous World Health Organization. Nor has it admitted that the government destroyed virological samples from Wuhan. Meanwhile, even though the CCP has “solemnly apologized” to the family of Dr. Li Wenliang and exonerated him for his attempts to warn about the epidemic, it continues to threaten and suppress brave Chinese whistleblowers, who attempt to reveal the truth about what is happening in China.
Beijing wants to convince global public opinion that it has beaten the coronavirus and is in a position to help save the world. The CCP openly contrasts its claimed victory with conditions in the United States, claiming that the virus rages uncontrolled in America due to President Trump’s ineffective action.
......
Gautam
Older article, March feels 2 years in the past, yet it makes important observations that are relevant. The author is from Hoover Institution, which is conservative, and so is the Real Politics. The entire article is worth a read.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby madhu » 05 May 2020 06:12

India offers land twice Luxembourg’s size to firms leaving China

India is developing a land pool nearly double the size of Luxembourg to lure businesses moving out of China, according to people with the knowledge of the matter.

A total area of 461,589 hectares has been identified across the country for the purpose, the people said, asking not to be identified because they aren’t authorized to speak to the media. That includes 115,131 hectares of existing industrial land in states such as Gujarat, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh, they said. Luxembourg is spread across 243,000 hectares, according to the World Bank.

The government has hand-picked 10 sectors -- electrical, pharmaceuticals, medical devices, electronics, heavy engineering, solar equipment, food processing, chemicals and textiles -- as focus areas for promoting manufacturing. It has asked embassies abroad to identify companies scouting for options. Invest India, the government’s investment agency, has received inquiries mainly from Japan, the U.S., South Korea and China, expressing interest in relocating to the Asia’s third-largest economy, the people said
.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby mappunni » 05 May 2020 10:08

Trump administration pushing to rip global supply chains from China: officials

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-china-idUSKBN22G0BZ


The United States is pushing to create an alliance of “trusted partners” dubbed the “Economic Prosperity Network,” one official said. It would include companies and civil society groups operating under the same set of standards on everything from digital business, energy and infrastructure to research, trade, education and commerce, he said.

The U.S. government is working with Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam to “move the global economy forward,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said April 29.

These discussions include “how we restructure ... supply chains to prevent something like this from ever happening again,” Pompeo said.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vimal » 05 May 2020 11:00

^^ This will make a lot of firms like Apple very very unhappy and nervous. There is already a narrative being peddled by the usual suspects about how a tough China policy is causing stock market crash. They forget to mention that the crash happened due to CCP manufactured virus.


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