Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

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mappunni
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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby mappunni » 05 May 2020 19:21

vimal wrote:^^ This will make a lot of firms like Apple very very unhappy and nervous. There is already a narrative being peddled by the usual suspects about how a tough China policy is causing stock market crash. They forget to mention that the crash happened due to CCP manufactured virus.


The Trump administration says it's working with the industry to move out the supply chain from China and it has got active support from many US companies who have been burnt by IP theft in China. When you partner with a Chinese company to set up a factory in China and in the next few months your Chinese partner puts up a factory next door selling your wares for a tenth of your cost!

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vijayk » 05 May 2020 19:45

Is this a rhetoric or will he follow up?

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vimal » 05 May 2020 22:05

vijayk wrote:Is this a rhetoric or will he follow up?


I think his instinct is to follow through but his admin is riddled with panda lovers.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 May 2020 22:52

ramana wrote:Folks I think we had enough chit chat over last 10 pages here.
From now on I want focused discussion on certain economic aspects only. Any non germane post will get 3 day ban

Specific aspects of economy.

#International trade
#IndianManufacturing
#IndianHealthcare
#IndianAgriculture
#Indian education
#IndianFinancialSector
#IndianMilitary

Any thing I missed.

Please preface hashtag

Am not interested in short term reopening Indian economy as that NaMo and all are highly focused on and will do it. But what about day after tomorrow figuratively?


I suggest adding #IndiaGlobalLeadership

I liked disha's critique of the Chris Hedges interview (where he says that America is over and done with). However, Hedges's main point is undeniable that America is confronting a crisis of collective character, which has been a long time in building up. And that it is hard / impossible to see a way out for America. Impossible only if you look at it through White American Eurocentric lenses.

We here know perfectly well that the core global civilizational values and virtues are well and alive, and somewhat thriving, in India, despite the dedicated efforts of BIF. IMO, America's salvation lies in recognizing India's leadership in this regard and submitting to India's benevolent moral tutelage. It shouldn't be a shocking idea, they are already almost vassals of China in this regard, through coercion, greed and all the negative elements of character.

FWIW it is my impression / belief that Modi sees things similarly in this regard.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vishvak » 05 May 2020 23:17

But our future generations will live in Sharia land for sure.
The 60s/70s Naxals and Khalistanis are two examples.

The global realignment should be leveraged such that it serves to reaffirm goals of humane societies. Movements like Khalistan etc were used to divide until weakened society see one of interested exclusive groups as savior. Such things need to be corrected along with. People of India have a lot to lose and also (same/similar) a lot to preserve while competing exclusive ideologies only have to divide and rule.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby DavidD » 06 May 2020 04:58

mappunni wrote:Trump administration pushing to rip global supply chains from China: officials

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-china-idUSKBN22G0BZ


The United States is pushing to create an alliance of “trusted partners” dubbed the “Economic Prosperity Network,” one official said. It would include companies and civil society groups operating under the same set of standards on everything from digital business, energy and infrastructure to research, trade, education and commerce, he said.

The U.S. government is working with Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam to “move the global economy forward,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said April 29.

These discussions include “how we restructure ... supply chains to prevent something like this from ever happening again,” Pompeo said.


Sounds a lot like the TPP, eh?

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 06 May 2020 06:55

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... west-point
Coronavirus: China and US in ‘new Cold War’ as relations hit lowest point in ‘more than 40 years’, spurred on by pandemic
US-China relations have nosedived to their lowest point in decades, ex-officials on both sides say

Donald Trump has threatened to scrap the phase one trade deal and increase tariffs, while Chinese media have stepped up attacks on US political figures
Finbarr Bermingham and Cissy Zhou, 5 May, 2020
A dramatic deterioration in US-China relations in recent days has convinced current and former government advisers on both sides that bilateral ties have plummeted to their lowest point in decades.
Over the past week, the Trump administration has threatened to scrap the phase one trade deal and increase tariffs on China, backed tough new export controls for Chinese firms buying American tech products, and continued to push theories claiming the coronavirus was man-made and leaked from a laboratory in the city of Wuhan.
The White House is also “turbocharging” an initiative among “friendly nations” to push manufacturing supply chains out of China, according to Reuters, while a leaked report from the US Department of Homeland Security accused Beijing of covering up the severity of the virus so it could hoard medical supplies at the start of the year. China’s state media and “wolf warrior” diplomats have ratcheted up social media attacks on US political figures in response. Last week, a video mocking America’s handling of the coronavirus, entitled “Once Upon a Virus”, was widely shared among hawkish foreign ministry officials after it was released by official news agency Xinhua.
Analysts say the gloves are now off, with any residual optimism from the phase one trade deal signed in mid-January gone, along with all hope that trade ties could help salvage the wider US-China relationship. “The United States and China are actually in the era of a new Cold War,” said Shi Yinhong, an international relations professor at China’s Renmin University and an adviser to China’s State Council, effectively the country’s cabinet.
“Different from the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union, the new Cold War between the US and China features full competition and a rapid decoupling. The US-China relationship is no longer the same as that of a few years ago, not even the same as that of a few months ago.”
While the rhetoric about a “new Cold War” is a common talking point in Washington, it is used less frequently in public by Chinese advisers and scholars. After all, the original Cold War spelt the end of the Soviet Union and left the United States victorious.
But the nosedive in relations in recent weeks has lent the comparison mainstream acceptance, promoting it from the fringes of the Trump administration to a reality accepted by many. Reuters reported on Monday that a leaked Chinese government document said global anti-China sentiment is at its worst point since 1989, when Beijing brutally cracked down on the Tiananmen Square protests.
......
Gautam
China should not release mocking videos, as DT is a master in this game, he will name Eleven with something that will stick for ever. Remember Pocahontas? Eleven on the other hand can not even tolerate Winnie the Pooh, without blocking it.
See: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-40627855 Why China censors banned Winnie the Pooh

ramana
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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby ramana » 06 May 2020 07:56

KLNM, If you note all the hashtags I listed are hard, realistic, and measurable targets.
By nature, I don't like soft, idealistic goals.
#IndiaGlobalLeadership will be a consequence if we achieve the targets I listed.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 06 May 2020 10:25

vimal wrote:
vijayk wrote:Is this a rhetoric or will he follow up?


I think his instinct is to follow through but his admin is riddled with panda lovers.


There are no panda lovers in Trump's admin. This the admin that launched the trade war and tech embargo who shattered 40 years of US F500 growth in Cheen. The panda lovers are from corporate America not Trump's cabinet.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 May 2020 10:55

ramana wrote:KLNM, If you note all the hashtags I listed are hard, realistic, and measurable targets.
By nature, I don't like soft, idealistic goals.
#IndiaGlobalLeadership will be a consequence if we achieve the targets I listed.

I don’t agree with you that the hashtags you listed are enough to bring about India’s global leadership. I think for India to be a global leader, there needs to be active intent for India to become a global leader.

I also don’t agree that India’s global leadership standing is not measurable. If there are no metrics for it today, it’s because people don’t take it as a target to aim for, unlike the ones you listed.

I understand that the onus would be on me to articulate the idea and suggest metrics etc. I’ll put my thoughts down when time permits. Until then, let it be.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby vijayk » 07 May 2020 01:29

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN22G0BZ
Trump administration pushing to rip global supply chains from China: officials

he Trump administration is “turbocharging” an initiative to remove global industrial supply chains from China as it weighs new tariffs to punish Beijing for its handling of the coronavirus outbreak, according to officials familiar with U.S. planning.


President Donald Trump, who has stepped up recent attacks on China ahead of the Nov. 3 U.S. presidential election, has long pledged to bring manufacturing back from overseas.

Now, economic destruction and the U.S. coronavirus death toll are driving a government-wide push to move U.S. production and supply chain dependency away from China, even if it goes to other more friendly nations instead, current and former senior U.S. administration officials said.

“We’ve been working on (reducing the reliance of our supply chains in China) over the last few years but we are now turbo-charging that initiative,” Keith Krach, undersecretary for Economic Growth, Energy and the Environment at the State Department told Reuters.

“I think it is essential to understand where the critical areas are and where critical bottlenecks exist,” Krach said, adding that the matter was key to U.S. security and one the government could announce new action on soon.


The United States is pushing to create an alliance of “trusted partners” dubbed the “Economic Prosperity Network,” one official said. It would include companies and civil society groups operating under the same set of standards on everything from digital business, energy and infrastructure to research, trade, education and commerce, he said.

The U.S. government is working with Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam to “move the global economy forward,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said April 29.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby ramana » 07 May 2020 20:54

Note no mention of Europe or Britshits or Canada.

Basically an Indo-Pacific Prosperity Network.

Imperial Japan want to create the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_E ... ity_Sphere

The Greater East Asia Conference (大東亞會議, Dai Tōa Kaigi) took place in Tokyo on 5–6 November 1943: Japan hosted the heads of state of various component members of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. The conference was also referred to as the Tokyo Conference. The common language used by the delegates during the conference was English.[25]

The conference addressed few issues of substance but was intended by the Japanese to illustrate the Empire of Japan's commitments to the Pan-Asianism ideal and to emphasize its role as the "liberator" of Asia from western colonialism.

The following dignitaries attended:

Hideki Tojo, Prime Minister of the Empire of Japan
Zhang Jinghui, Prime Minister of Manchukuo
Wang Jingwei, President of the Reorganized National Government of the Republic of China
Ba Maw, Head of State of the State of Burma
Subhas Chandra Bose, Head of State of the Provisional Government of Free India (Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind)
José P. Laurel, President of the Second Philippine Republic
Prince Wan Waithayakon, envoy from the Kingdom of Thailand
Tojo greeted them with a speech praising the "spiritual essence" of Asia, as opposed to the "materialistic civilization" of the West.[26] Their meeting was characterized by praise of solidarity and condemnation of Western colonialism but without practical plans for either economic development or integration.[27]

The conference issued a Joint Declaration promoting economic and political cooperation against the Allied countries.[28]

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Rsatchi » 08 May 2020 13:21

https://theprint.in/opinion/modi-nam-po ... ep/416742/
Why is S Chari advising we suck up to China!!!
Has he been turned!!
Will this be Namo's 'Jinnah was secular'( a la Advani and Kulkarni episode)
There is Trump openly calling 'Covid-19' worse than Pearl Harbour attack i.e., aggression needing some sort of retribution from Khanland and here is the right-wing thinker asking us to join RCEP
Imagine the shrill from 'know-it-all' LeLi and attack on Namo!!!


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Krita » 08 May 2020 13:49

Rsatchi wrote:https://theprint.in/opinion/modi-nam-post-covid-world-india-joining-rcep/416742/
Why is S Chari advising we suck up to China!!!
Has he been turned!!
Will this be Namo's 'Jinnah was secular'( a la Advani and Kulkarni episode)
There is Trump openly calling 'Covid-19' worse than Pearl Harbour attack i.e., aggression needing some sort of retribution from Khanland and here is the right-wing thinker asking us to join RCEP
Imagine the shrill from 'know-it-all' LeLi and attack on Namo!!!

Looks like out of work Chari has sold himself for a few annnas.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby syam » 08 May 2020 16:39

KLNMurthy wrote:I suggest adding #IndiaGlobalLeadership

I liked disha's critique of the Chris Hedges interview (where he says that America is over and done with). However, Hedges's main point is undeniable that America is confronting a crisis of collective character, which has been a long time in building up. And that it is hard / impossible to see a way out for America. Impossible only if you look at it through White American Eurocentric lenses.

We here know perfectly well that the core global civilizational values and virtues are well and alive, and somewhat thriving, in India, despite the dedicated efforts of BIF. IMO, America's salvation lies in recognizing India's leadership in this regard and submitting to India's benevolent moral tutelage. It shouldn't be a shocking idea, they are already almost vassals of China in this regard, through coercion, greed and all the negative elements of character.

FWIW it is my impression / belief that Modi sees things similarly in this regard.

Murthy garu, with due respect, please let me point out obvious flaw in this sort of thinking.

the so called civilizational values and virtues won't work outside our echo chambers and old people whatsapp groups. do you know we lived with western europe since 1600 atleast? Before the east india company rule, the brits were on this soil for more than 100 years doing trade. Fast forward to 1947, it's more than 300 years. We had seen many enlightenment movements in west and german obsession with our scriptures and stuff. the knowledge 'gained' from the studies influenced many movement in europe including rise of aryan movements. and now again fast forward to 2020. what's the status of everything? Hindus are known as some casties bigots and 90% of west ridicule our gods and scriptures. Forgot about our religion, west treats us like some uncivilized regressive race.

If we really need to make our own mark on post-covid world, we need to come out this self-inflated bubble first. I wish posters talk about taking back peshawar and parts of bd back instead of teaching the world culture and morals. no one needs them now, sir. the need of the hour is securing our future.
Last edited by syam on 09 May 2020 15:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Bart S » 08 May 2020 19:12

Rsatchi wrote:https://theprint.in/opinion/modi-nam-post-covid-world-india-joining-rcep/416742/
Why is S Chari advising we suck up to China!!!
Has he been turned!!
Will this be Namo's 'Jinnah was secular'( a la Advani and Kulkarni episode)
There is Trump openly calling 'Covid-19' worse than Pearl Harbour attack i.e., aggression needing some sort of retribution from Khanland and here is the right-wing thinker asking us to join RCEP
Imagine the shrill from 'know-it-all' LeLi and attack on Namo!!!


This is OT for this thread, but the assumption that BJP folks are automatically right-wing or conservative is very far off the mark. Just because lutyens media labels them as right wing does not make them so. Most of them are quite left-wing in terms of economics and several have the same streak of knee-jerk 'anti-imperialist'/anti-capitalist sentiment that a lot of the Congress/CPI folks display.

But even by those standards, this line of thinking was extremely poor, and especially so when done as a public op-ed.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby amar_p » 09 May 2020 15:56

5 things India can do to reform the WHO

[youtube]https://youtu.be/v=X7zgwJUyCes[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/X7zgwJUyCes

chola
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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 09 May 2020 16:48

Here's an unpopular thought.

If we are smart we will entice multinationals, including American and chini ones, that will allow us to export to
BOTH Amreeka and Cheen.

We need to think out of the box in this brave new world. The signs are that Cheen is turning inward and its economic engine is still cranking up faster than everyone else despite this. It will be the largest market in the world post Wuhan even if it were embargoed by everyone -- and it won't be.

The Germans and Japanese will be in China no matter what the US does. We need to take that up that same position as a bridge.
https://www.ft.com/content/a9e8b5a4-20c0-4286-8390-57412292221e


VW hails speed of car sales recovery in China

Demand in most profitable market nears 2019 level but brand expects slower revival in Europe

Volkswagen says demand for its cars in China is almost as high as it was this time last year, underlining the speed of the recovery in the brand’s most profitable market.


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 09 May 2020 18:16

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/asia/us- ... index.html
Coronavirus has created a rift between the US and China that may take a generation to heal
Analysis by Nectar Gan, CNN, Fri May 8, 2020

(CNN)The novel coronavirus has destroyed lives and livelihoods in both the United States and China. But instead of bonding the two nations together to fight the pandemic, it has sent their already strained relations on a rapid downward spiral -- and fanned the flames of a potentially dangerous strain of nationalism.
China has been criticized at home and abroad over its handling of the virus, especially during the initial outbreak. Pushing back such criticism with increasingly fierce rhetoric, Beijing says it is merely "responding" to false accusations, particularly from the US.
In March, as the pandemic raged across the globe, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian publicly promoted an unfounded conspiracy theory that the virus might have been brought to China by the US military. A few days later, US President Donald Trump called the coronavirus the "Chinese virus," pinning the blame on China as the outbreak began to take hold in major American cities.
Trump dropped the term a week later -- but the finger pointing did not stop there. In recent weeks, the Trump administration has repeatedly lashed out at China over its handling of the outbreak, questioning its death toll and criticizing its early response to the virus. Last week, Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo claimed -- without providing evidence -- that the virus originated from a Chinese lab. Beijing pushed back in response, dubbing the claim a reelection tactic aimed at boosting Trump's standing among Republican voters -- while China's government-controlled media attacked Pompeo with unusually vicious language, calling him "evil," "insane" and an "enemy of mankind."
But the acrimony goes deeper than a mere war of words. The Trump administration is reportedly drawing up plans to punish China for the pandemic -- retaliation options include sanctions, canceling US debt obligations and drawing up new trade policies. Trump and several administration officials are also enlisting foreign allies to join the pressure campaign against China.
"Lowest point" in decades
The dramatic deterioration of relations comes on the heels of a two-year trade war between the world's two largest economies -- a trade war that had already pushed tensions to new heights and spurred talk of decoupling. Yet while Trump's approach to China is not necessarily new, the situation he now faces is "much more dramatic and dangerous," said David Zweig, professor emeritus at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology and director of Transnational China Consulting Limited.
"The stakes are much higher," Zweig said. "In 2016, it was people's jobs. In 2020, it's people's lives." First detected in the central Chinese city of Wuhan last December, the coronavirus has since spread far beyond the country's borders, infecting 3.9 million people and killing at least 276,000 across the globe.
.....
Rising nationalism
As bilateral ties plummet during the pandemic, US public opinion on China has also hit a new low. A recent Pew poll found that 66% of Americans held an unfavorable view of China, the highest percentage recorded since the annual survey began in 2005. Only about a quarter in the US report a favorable attitude towards China.
Similarly, in China, nationalism and anti-foreign sentiment is running high. Backed by state media and officials, there is also a growing sense of bitterness that Chinese people, especially the people of Wuhan, have made huge sacrifices to contain the virus and suffered great loss, yet their country is still being criticized for not doing enough -- and taking the blame for other governments' inadequate response in handling the pandemic.
......
Gautam

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 May 2020 20:16

syam wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:I suggest adding #IndiaGlobalLeadership

I liked disha's critique of the Chris Hedges interview (where he says that America is over and done with). However, Hedges's main point is undeniable that America is confronting a crisis of collective character, which has been a long time in building up. And that it is hard / impossible to see a way out for America. Impossible only if you look at it through White American Eurocentric lenses.

We here know perfectly well that the core global civilizational values and virtues are well and alive, and somewhat thriving, in India, despite the dedicated efforts of BIF. IMO, America's salvation lies in recognizing India's leadership in this regard and submitting to India's benevolent moral tutelage. It shouldn't be a shocking idea, they are already almost vassals of China in this regard, through coercion, greed and all the negative elements of character.

FWIW it is my impression / belief that Modi sees things similarly in this regard.

Murthy garu, with due respect, please let me point out obvious flaw in this sort of thinking.

the so called civilizational values and virtues won't work outside our echo chambers and old people whatsapp groups. do you know we lived with western europe since 1600 atleast? Before the east india company rule, the brits were on this soil for more than 100 years doing trade. Fast forward to 1947, it's more than 300 years. We had seen many enlightenment movements in west and german obsession with our scriptures and stuff. the knowledge 'gained' from the studies influenced many movement in europe including rise of aryan movements. and now again fast forward to 2020. what's the status of everything? Hindus are known as some casties bigots and 90% of west ridicule our gods and scriptures. Forgot about our religion, west treats us like some uncivilized regressive race.

If we really need to make our own mark on post-covid world, we need to come out this self-inflated bubble first. I wish posters talk about taking back peshawar and parts of bd back instead of teaching the world culture and morals. no one needs them now, sir. the need of the hour is securing our future.


I think we need to conquer both the knowledge & values space and physical space.

Seriously, do you think it is more realistic to talk about conquering Peshawar & Bangladesh than it is to talk about waging & winning a propaganda war?

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby syam » 15 May 2020 15:21

Secretary Pompeo
@SecPompeo
The U.S. welcomes TSMC’s intention to invest $12B in the most advanced 5-nanometer semiconductor fabrication foundry in the world. This deal bolsters U.S. national security at a time when China is trying to dominate cutting-edge tech and control critical industries.

amerikis simply exploiting the present situation. why the hell taiwan giving up such advanced tech to them? it's ww2 redux without the war part.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 16 May 2020 01:35

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/1 ... ade-259814
How Trump is using coronavirus to reshape world trade
The pandemic has already hastened trends that could permanently change the global trading environment.
By DOUG PALMER and RYAN HEATH, 05/15/2020

The coronavirus could turn out to be President Donald Trump’s strongest ally in shifting the United States from a leader of the multilateral trading system to an inward-looking nation sheltered behind protectionist walls.
“We’re going to bring back manufacturing that we could never have done without this, as bad as this has been, because now people agree with me," said Trump in an Thursday interview on Fox Business. "A lot of people are saying, ‘Trump was right.’” The president’s vision has influenced myriad administration or congressional protectionist efforts, including a plan to sanction Chinese officials for alleged roles in the spread of Covid-19, a move to pull the U.S. from the World Trade Organization and Trump's suspension of financial support to the World Health Organization.
U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, in an op-ed published this week in The New York Times, argued the coronavirus was further accelerating a reshoring trend that had already increased because of Trump's shift to a more American-centric trade policy . "As companies prepare to reopen their U.S. operations, many have found themselves held hostage to decisions made by foreign governments about whether their suppliers are 'essential' or not," wrote Lighthizer. "Every day I talk to business leaders who now acknowledge they underestimated the risk in decisions to move jobs overseas or to rely on the production of small but crucial parts in some far-off and often unstable country."
The pandemic has already hastened trends that could permanently change the global trading environment, leaving a world of shorter supply chains and more regional trade, less business travel and more video conferences. Higher unemployment rates around the world could also fuel more nationalist trade policies, while rising tensions between the United States and China could create more fissures between the world’s two largest economies.
......
There’s no denying the impact the coronavirus is already having on world trade, aside from any measures put in place by governments. The WTO forecasts a drop of 13 to 32 percent this year because of reduced demand and supplies. “Supply chains are under a lot of stress right now,” Yvonne Bendinger-Rothschild, the New York-based executive director of the European American Chamber of Commerce, told POLITICO. “Freight costs are through the roof, if you can even get on a plane or ship."
.....
Gautam

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby g.sarkar » 17 May 2020 05:30

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... omat-warns
Australia-China ties at risk of slipping into permanent hostility, former senior diplomat warns
Managing relations requires Australian patience and consistency over the long term, says Richard Maude
Daniel Hurst and Helen Davidson, Thu 14 May 2020

Australia must work to prevent ties with China slipping into permanent hostility as the relationship becomes more vulnerable to frequent flare-ups, a former senior diplomat has warned. Without careful management, Australia’s ties with its top trading partner could descend into a “permanently adversarial” state where parts of the economic relationship are regularly at risk, according to Richard Maude, until recently a deputy secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in Canberra. He warned that it was easier to talk about finding new export markets than actually finding them, and Australia would be poorer and less resilient if competitive relations between China and the west deteriorated to a point where it jeopardised cooperation on major global challenges.
“Managing relations with an assertive China requires Australian patience, consistency and steadfastness on policy over the long term,” wrote Maude, the executive director of policy at the Asia Society Australia. “The task is harder because China increasingly is conducting its diplomacy in a manner it would never accept from others. That diminishes China but is the nature of authoritarian power. Cool determination rather than indignation is the better response.”
The call came as Scott Morrison declared Australia would never “trade away our values” and would deal with other countries “fairly and honestly and openly”. Trade tensions have grown over the past few days as Chinese authorities flagged potential tariffs of 80% on Australian barley imports and suspended permits for beef supplied by three abattoirs in Queensland and one in New South Wales. China announced on Thursday that it would immediately begin allowing American barley imports, a move that has been framed by state media as a potential problem between Australia and the US. Beijing insists its decision about Australian imports are all legitimate trade responses and not the “economic coercion” politicians in Canberra were worried about last month. But the hawkish Chinese media outlet, the Global Times, reported that the decision to allow US barley imports “suggests a delicate situation” for the Morrison government.
“If US agricultural products take over Australia’s share in the Chinese market, then who is the antagonist of Australian businesses, China or the US?” it said. The article then said – simultaneously – that the trade practices are normal and Australia shouldn’t be politicising them, but also that the Morrison government should “halt the further decline of its relations with China”. “Moreover, it is likely Australia will face competition from US agricultural products in the future, which may put US-Australia friendship to the test.”
.....
Gautam

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Prem » 21 May 2020 04:12

http://www.educatt.com/public/garage/Cr ... df#page=32
Between Washington and Beijing:
India’s Geopolitical Challenges
ASHLEY J. TELLIS

Although India is a relatively stronger state among many
others on China’s periphery, it is not immune to these Chinese pressures. Hence, New Delhi has pursued a relatedly subtle strategy toward China in
recent years. On one hand, ithas deepened its strategic partnership with the United States in ways that are simply unrecognizable historically. India today considers its ties with the United States to be the most important strategic relationship it enjoys with any state. Bilateral ties between the two countries have deepened across the economic, diplomatic, and especially military realms precisely because the United States is viewed as the most importantpower that can assist India in balancing China. Even as theserelations have deepened, however, India has sought to diversify its strategic ties across Asia writ large – with Japan, Australia, Singapore, Vietnam, Indonesia and Russia – as a “secondline of defense” in its efforts to balance China.
While such collaborative partnerships are intensifying, Indiahas simultaneously focused on engaging China as much as possible. This engagement, however, occurs with eyes wide open:no matter how productive the state of Sino-Indian relationsmay be at any given point in time, New Delhi has no illusionsabout the gravity of the Chinese threat to its interests, its ambitions, and its status claims in international politics. Precisely
because India cannot advance its aims independently at themoment, Indian grand strategy seeks fundamentally to buytime: it want to sustain peace with China until its internal economic renewal is complete, until it can build its economy sufficiently to meet its still outstanding development demands, anduntil its economy is strong enough to provide the state with

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 21 May 2020 14:16

Companies with operations in Cheen will have a big advantage over those who don't because the chini is bouncing back faster than anyone else. I'm afraid even Trump's trade war can't stop them now. Cheen is powering on their engine internally this time.

And they have a $1T technology stimulus plan coming up. The scope is breath-taking.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-keeps-germanys-car-makers-in-the-fast-lane-11589964602


China Keeps Germany’s Car Makers in the Fast Lane

Sales of luxury vehicles in China are rebounding after the coronavirus shutdowns, cementing a key advantage of Volkswagen, BMW and Daimler versus global peers

By Stephen Wilmot
May 20, 2020 4:50 am ET


Germany’s car manufacturers are once again being bailed out by China.

Having skidded to a halt in February, Chinese vehicle sales are rebounding—particularly at the luxury end of the market. Premium brands clocked year-over-year growth of 13.6% in April, according to insurance sales tracked by brokerage Bernstein, bringing the decline for the first four coronavirus-stricken months of 2020 to just 14.2%. Bernstein’s feedback from dealers suggests demand remains strong this month.

...



https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/21/business/china-plan-tech-crown/#.XsY4NXdq2Ec


China forms new plan to seize world technology crown from U.S.

BLOOMBERG
MAY 21, 2020

Beijing is accelerating its bid for global leadership in key technologies, planning to pump more than a trillion dollars into the economy through the rollout of everything from wireless networks to artificial intelligence (AI).

In the master plan backed by President Xi Jinping himself, China will invest an estimated $1.4 trillion over six years to 2025, calling on urban governments and private tech giants like Huawei Technologies Co. to deploy fifth generation wireless networks, install cameras and sensors and develop AI software that will underpin technologies from autonomous driving to automated factories and mass surveillance.

...

“Nothing like this has happened before; this is China’s gambit to win the global tech race,” said Digital China Holdings Chief Operating Officer Maria Kwok, as she sat in a Hong Kong office surrounded by facial recognition cameras and sensors. “Starting this year, we are really beginning to see the money flow through.”

...

China’s new stimulus plan will likely lead to a consolidation of industrial internet providers, and could lead to the emergence of some larger companies able to compete with global leaders such as GE and Siemens. One bet is on industrial internet-of-things platforms as China aims to cultivate three world leading companies in this area by 2025.

...

According to the government-backed China Center for Information Industry Development, the 10 trillion yuan ($1.4 trillion) that China is estimated to be spending from now until 2025 encompasses areas typically considered leading edge, such as AI and internet of things (IoT) technologies, as well as advances such as ultra-high voltage lines and high-speed rail.

Separate estimates by Morgan Stanley put new infrastructure at around $180 billion each year for the next 11 years, for a total of $1.98 trillion, including the power and rail lines. That annual figure would be almost double the average over the past three years, the investment bank said in a March report that listed key stock beneficiaries including companies such as China Tower Corp., Alibaba, GDS Holdings, Quanta Computer Inc. and Advantech Co.

While Beijing’s vision is not yet fully formed, it is already stirring a plethora of stocks — a big reason why five of China’s 10 best-performing stocks this year are tech plays like networking gear maker Dawning Information Industry Co. and Apple supplier GoerTek Inc. The bare outlines of the master plan were enough to drive pundits toward everything from satellite operators to broadband providers.

It’s unlikely that U.S. companies will benefit much from technology-led stimulus, and in some cases they stand to lose existing business. Earlier this year, when the country’s largest telecom carrier China Mobile awarded contracts for 37 billion yuan in 5G base stations, the lion’s share went to Huawei and other Chinese companies. Sweden’s Ericsson got only a little over 10 percent of the business in the first four months. In one of its projects, Digital China will help the northeastern city of Changchun swap out American cloud computing staples IBM, Oracle and EMC with home-grown technology.


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Vamsee » 28 May 2020 04:24

Pompeo says Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China

The move does not carry any immediate penalties, which would have to be decided by President Donald Trump in consultation with Congress. But the administration sees it as putting China on notice that Hong Kong’s perks are in jeopardy.


===========

More pressure on China.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 28 May 2020 14:21

Vamsee wrote:Pompeo says Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China

The move does not carry any immediate penalties, which would have to be decided by President Donald Trump in consultation with Congress. But the administration sees it as putting China on notice that Hong Kong’s perks are in jeopardy.


===========

More pressure on China.


Actually not much pressure, I think. Hong Kong has its uses but it also shields foreign companies from having to HQ China operations in Cheen. Now if companies need to be in the China market, they have to be in China.

Another theory on why Cheen is doing this now. Hong Kong having special privileges actually creates a position where the local population feel different and superior to the unwashed masses of the mainland. I heard an analyst say that HK creates a "house negro/field negro" situation for China. House being the privileged ones with special access to the master's house. lol

HK in the end had always been a construct built on the China trade. Now with trade going down the toilet, the Chicom sees little gain from HK being different from any other chini city.

The Indian community is wealthy there. I visited my uncle there once with my parents. His circle included a lot of Parsees. The Parsee girls looked like Bollywood starlets. We'll see what happens.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 29 May 2020 00:49

Zee Germans and Koreans are allowed into China but not so much for Amreekis and Japs.

This had gone on for weeks. F500 in US can't get people into Cheen.

The post-Wuhan world will have those in the Western Alliance who can profit in Cheen and those who can't. Krauts are favored among whites and Koreans among the other chinki types.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-loosens-business-travel-from-korea-and-germany-pressuring-other-countries-11590688856

China Loosens Business Travel From Korea and Germany, Pressuring Other Countries

Companies are trying to rebuild supply chains, boost sales and increase productivity, moving quickly to gain a competitive edge

By Sha Hua, Chun Han Wong and Miho Inada
May 28, 2020 2:00 pm ET

As businesses world-wide struggle to resume operations following months of coronavirus-imposed economic lockdown, two planeloads of German executives traveling to China in coming days are upping pressure on foreign rivals to resume international business travel.

U.S. trade groups in China and Japanese executives say they are eager to resume business.

Beijing...


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Zynda » 30 May 2020 23:51

^^Probably the same thing which you have posted...

Image

'Business is restarting': German executives fly back to China

Even if US & other countries (India, Japan, Australia etc.) want to "punish" China, without EU, it would difficult to make a strong case. Germany has a strong influence/voice in EU and without Germany's support, I guess a resolution from EU to penalize China is as good as dead.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby darshan » 31 May 2020 00:51

European countries were critical in bringing up cellular industry in China and helping Huawei. Companies like Rohde always looked sideways. European countries didn't care about Chinese vacuuming up engineering talent that was laid off. Lot of this communication work could have easily come under dual use technology and should have been restricted.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 31 May 2020 01:18

I don't trust the Koreans or Germans not to try to benefit from both sides. Their companies are competing against American ones too.

Or the Japanese, Italians and French for that matter.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/south-korea-is-the-pivot-in-the-huawei-wars/


South Korea is the pivot in the Huawei wars

Restrictions on semiconductor sales to Chinese companies are 'unacceptable' to Seoul

By DAVID P. GOLDMAN
MAY 30, 2020

South Korea has told Washington that restrictions on semiconductor sales to Huawei and other Chinese companies are “unacceptable,” according to industry sources.

...

The extraterritorial assertion of control over third-party sales of products made with US equipment is unprecedented, and has no basis in international law, South Korea has remonstrated with Washington. China bought almost twice as much from South Korea during the last 12 months as the United States.


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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby m_saini » 31 May 2020 10:44

Don't think Koreans, germans or japanese can effectively defy US on the trade/tech war. All US has to to is to threaten to withdraw the military bases and the threat of chinese and russian aggression would do the rest. Koreans are mostly just ROL converts who try to act all righteous in front of US. Koreans should realize that once US leaves their hyundais and samsungs won't have much future in xi's china. And Germans who could just stand and watch while NSA spied on Herr Merkel for decades won't be much trouble either once US gets serious.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 31 May 2020 13:10

m_saini wrote:Don't think Koreans, germans or japanese can effectively defy US on the trade/tech war. All US has to to is to threaten to withdraw the military bases and the threat of chinese and russian aggression would do the rest. Koreans are mostly just ROL converts who try to act all righteous in front of US. Koreans should realize that once US leaves their hyundais and samsungs won't have much future in xi's china. And Germans who could just stand and watch while NSA spied on Herr Merkel for decades won't be much trouble either once US gets serious.


France, Germany and Italy will not come down on Cheen as hard as the Anglosphere. Again, they are competing against Amreeki firms too. Cheen is the largest market in the world right now. Even more so with the Wuhan pandemic. Among the major economies, Cheen is the one that MNCs, including American ones, are most confident about.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1286542/italy-leave-EU-china-break-up-of-EU-germany-coronavirus-bonds-belt-road-initiative

As for Korea, I noticed long ago that the East Asian dynamic is so different from our experience with the SAARC nations. Korea, Japan and Taiwan all helped to make Cheen a global power and then helped to keep Cheen afloat during Trump's tech war. Without TSMC and other Taiwanese foundries, Huawei would have gone belly up last year. Again, that's Taiwan which Cheen threatens. Now Korea is fighting to keep supplying Cheen after Trump arm-twisted TSMC. I would not expect Pakistan, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to do the same for us in similar situations.

Cheen is their Greece and Rome, those countries are attached to it culturally and psychologically. The South Korean flag is a Yin-Yang symbol.

They'll push forward with a RCEP (sans India) which will further shield Cheen.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby Lisa » 31 May 2020 18:38

chola wrote:I don't trust the Koreans or Germans not to try to benefit from both sides. Their companies are competing against American ones too.

Or the Japanese, Italians and French for that matter.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/south-korea-is-the-pivot-in-the-huawei-wars/


South Korea is the pivot in the Huawei wars

Restrictions on semiconductor sales to Chinese companies are 'unacceptable' to Seoul

By DAVID P. GOLDMAN
MAY 30, 2020

South Korea has told Washington that restrictions on semiconductor sales to Huawei and other Chinese companies are “unacceptable,” according to industry sources.

...

The extraterritorial assertion of control over third-party sales of products made with US equipment is unprecedented, and has no basis in international law, South Korea has remonstrated with Washington. China bought almost twice as much from South Korea during the last 12 months as the United States.



When the Koreans BOUGHT American technology, THEY signed a contact agreeing to US export restrictions. If you are not happy then don't buy it.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby darshan » 31 May 2020 19:30

One just has to visit Korea and take some tours to realize that Koreans have no issue with flipping to Chinese when time comes as there's not that much further left to obtain from US. Culturally they already see Chinese as their big brothers that came to their rescue time after time to kick Japanese out. Only time will tell if infection from Abrahamic religions would keep them away from each other or not.

It would be interesting to see if US EJ networks in Korea succeed or the calling from ancestral big brother.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby m_saini » 31 May 2020 19:35

chola wrote:France, Germany and Italy will not come down on Cheen as hard as the Anglosphere.


I still think it's all dependent on American support. Koreans, Taiwan and Japanese could only help them after Kissinger and Nixon. And Taiwan is pretty similar to us right? China threatens us when we make them $60 billion richer each year. So are we helping Cheen against US? Koreans are merely posturing, I'd consider them fighting when they're ready for American military support leaving along with access to american market. Having a yin-yang flag means nothing, it's just that they run a trade surplus with Cheen and don't want to lose those dollars. If we had any sense, we could make Cheen behave the way as Koreans are behaving for Cheen.

SAARC is pretty similar. pakis got nukes cause americans looked the other way. It's those nukes that enable them to threaten us. Once Americans look the other way with countries like Vietnam or Taiwan, they'll behave like our SAARC too. It's the Americans who make Cheen the world factory, that action alone is what makes us pay them $60 billion a year. Americans make the Taiwanese support Cheen so Cheen isn't as anxious to invade. Their dirties are all plastered over by the money, once US removes the veil, we'll see the monkeys slinging. Had the Americans made us the world's factory, our pakis and beedis would be behaving like Koreans and Taiwan too.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 31 May 2020 19:52

Lisa wrote:When the Koreans BOUGHT American technology, THEY signed a contact agreeing to US export restrictions. If you are not happy then don't buy it.


If that were the case, the Koreans wouldn't have bothered contesting. They didn't know when they bought it.

In business no one expects what you paid for is still under the seller's ownership. That's something that happens in political deals like arms transfer. Not in business, not for an etching tool which is not an end product.

Business wise this dangerous precedence. Even if the US wins this round, the Koreans and everyone else will try to design American tools out of the production chain for the next round.

darshan wrote:One just has to visit Korea and take some tours to realize that Koreans have no issue with flipping to Chinese when time comes as there's not that much further left to obtain from US. Culturally they already see Chinese as their big brothers that came to their rescue time after time to kick Japanese out. Only time will tell if infection from Abrahamic religions would keep them away from each other or not.

It would be interesting to see if US EJ networks in Korea succeed or the calling from ancestral big brother.


Koreans can sell their culture to chinis. Their food, movies and music are very popular in Cheen even with the THAAD ban. They can't really sell that stuff to the US. Popularity for the whole Hallyu/KPOP wave originated in Cheen.

In the end, they live in that neighborhood. The same with Taiwan and Japan. They dislike the Chini government but the culture especially the ancient one still pulls them. Korea was the first to get clobbered by the Wuhan virus and still they are the first to try to get travel open up again with Cheen.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby darshan » 31 May 2020 20:09

@chola,
In agreement. That's the feeling I got when interacting with people in Korean metros. They are definitely pulled by their ancient connections. Economic connections are obviously there. Tons of Chinese come to Korea on daily basis to tour and shop. That has increased interactions between two populations to get used to each other and ponder over old days.

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Re: Post Wuhan-Virus(Covid19) World and India

Postby chola » 31 May 2020 21:09

m_saini wrote:
chola wrote:France, Germany and Italy will not come down on Cheen as hard as the Anglosphere.


I still think it's all dependent on American support. Koreans, Taiwan and Japanese could only help them after Kissinger and Nixon. And Taiwan is pretty similar to us right? China threatens us when we make them $60 billion richer each year. So are we helping Cheen against US? Koreans are merely posturing, I'd consider them fighting when they're ready for American military support leaving along with access to american market. Having a yin-yang flag means nothing, it's just that they run a trade surplus with Cheen and don't want to lose those dollars. If we had any sense, we could make Cheen behave the way as Koreans are behaving for Cheen.

SAARC is pretty similar. pakis got nukes cause americans looked the other way. It's those nukes that enable them to threaten us. Once Americans look the other way with countries like Vietnam or Taiwan, they'll behave like our SAARC too. It's the Americans who make Cheen the world factory, that action alone is what makes us pay them $60 billion a year. Americans make the Taiwanese support Cheen so Cheen isn't as anxious to invade. Their dirties are all plastered over by the money, once US removes the veil, we'll see the monkeys slinging. Had the Americans made us the world's factory, our pakis and beedis would be behaving like Koreans and Taiwan too.


Kissinger opened the gates. Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan and Korea went through the gates. The entire factory eco-system in China was made by them. The goras came much later and most of time only tapped the eco-system -- they didn't create it like the Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese.

There is no doubt that race and culture were important parts of this. They could have built that eco-system in ASEAN or --who knows -- India if it weren't for the cultural ties.

East Asian trade will not die the moment the US cuts itself off from the region. I think we have little understanding of the Far East because of how badly Greater Bharat is integrated imho. The RCEP is being fast tracted now because they want integral trade inside East and SouthEast Asia (chini diaspora) as the world is going into blocks.


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