2020 US election results discussion

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Mort Walker
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Nov 2020 13:25

Karan M wrote:Looks like this circus will continue till January per reports? Or is there a specific timeline by which the court cases have to be addressed by?


Court cases must be done 14 DEC 2020.

Unlike India, US elections have NEVER been fair as there is no federal election commission with any authority and states are not obligated to verify the identification of individuals at time of voting or by mail. Organized cheating in various counties and congressional districts is the norm by both political parties. Trump is exposing the US as a sham democracy. It has no moral authority to say anything to the rest of the world, least of all to India which has 850+ million biometric identified photo voter IDs.

Here is the timeline:

November 3, 2020—Election Day
December 8, 2020—States resolve controversies. (If this date is met, then Trump will concede)
December 14, 2020—electors vote in their States.
December 23, 2020—electoral votes arrive.
January 6, 2021—Congress counts the electoral votes.
January 20, 2021 at Noon—Inauguration Day.

chetak
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby chetak » 20 Nov 2020 13:51

suryag wrote:Chetak ji despite my warnings you are twisting names, you get a warning for now


sorry, didn't monitor the warning.

"ट्रम्पवा, नाइटिशवा and बिडेनवा" is fairly common usage on SM and "comma la" is the way the whiteys pronounce it.

But if I have transgressed the warning, I accept.
Last edited by chetak on 20 Nov 2020 14:54, edited 1 time in total.

Primus
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Primus » 20 Nov 2020 18:06

This forum, as has been repeatedly pointed out, is BRF, meaning it exists because we all care about the welfare of Bharat, above everything else. Hence any discussion of American polity/leadership has to be seen in that context.

I doubt very much the Harris/Biden Presidency (sadly, this is how it really is going to be) is going to be any worse for India overall than any previous regimes. India is just too big to ignore or antagonize.

However, what is amply clear to me at least, is that Harris could care far less for India or Hindus than the Hindus on this forum give her credit for. In that sense she will be no different from those who came before her, any leader has to put the best interests of their own nation first.

One may eulogize and worship her for having broken through, but that does not make her an icon for me to be proud of, given her antecedents and her well known comments on Dharma and India. For me, the two things are the same - India is Dharma and Dharma is India.

A woman who sells herself (how else could her relationship with a man older than her father be described) for political gain would not hesitate to sell her own people or her identity in pursuit of more power. Unfortunately those who sing her praises forget that she dropped out of the primaries, having garnered less than 1% of the popular vote from the people of America. Her political aspirations for the White House were already long over when she was hand-picked by OmBaba as Biden's running mate. It was nothing she did, certainly not any accomplishments of hers that won the ticket, but the fact that it was an anti-Trump election and her being a woman and Black was the key factor. She was NOT the winner, her gender and ethnicity was, fueled by a desperate desire to oust Trump.

Which is why I am severely disappointed with America. OTOH, Indians, Hindus in particular fall for this 'namba machin' nonsense time and again. Oh so gullible are we!

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Cyrano » 20 Nov 2020 21:04

Folks are lamenting that Kamala Harris, despite Indian roots due to her mother, and a certain degree of familiarity - if not affinity - with India due to occasional visits to India and interactions with her grand parents etc, is not overtly Pro-Indian. And as proof, a video addressing some Anti Art370 removal group - I saw that video, Kamala is very cleverly non-committal to anything. She just says "We are watching" and does some empty politician speak. May be there was more thats not in the video - who knows. As further proof, an awkward Diwali greeting, that she dated an older man years ago, that she was a hard core careerist, that she is more sympathetic to black causes etc.

All this seems like a case of reverse confirmation bias. Desperately wanting to find pro-India attitude for reassurance that all eez well and not finding much, therefore, painting her Anti-India and by extension Pro-Paki & Muslim causes. And similar self induced KLPD feeling is being displayed that Biden has not been overtly Pro-India all these years, funded Pak like every other administration or party did (for their own ends, not out of some "love" for Pakis).

If as you say, Pakis and Muslims have "turned" Harris & Biden towards them, then it simply shows that they too are influenceable like every other politician anywhere in the world. These groups have had the foresight to lobby them, present their case and curry favour. So my question to such concerned Indian-Americans, PIOs or NRIs is this: What have you folks been doing all these years? What are you doing now?

As I and others have said before, GoI today is far more smarter, and India today is a far bigger and important country in many ways for any foreign leadership to deal with a pre-conceived negative bias. At a Govt level, they will work through the new dispensation to build the needed bridges. And Indian-American community would be a great asset if they network, lobby and influence current and future US leaders, to take up more mind and media space than India's adversaries, instead of nursing unrealistic expectations and lamenting. All this lament and name calling on BR, besides being tedious and repetitive, is just plain silly and doesn't help.

Aditya_V
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Nov 2020 21:13

But Kamala Harris is given the benefit of doubt of real politick by posters who never allow it for BJP or Modi.

Cyrano
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Cyrano » 20 Nov 2020 21:27

In many ways, Modi and Trump are poles apart. Howdy Mody and Namaste Trump, Ab ki baar etc _is_ realpolitik :)

Biden-Harris surely know this and will be OK with it !

Mort Walker
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Nov 2020 00:09

It is amazing that people here give a free pass to a politician who openly criticized the Indian EAM and met with terrorists promising them that a future administration will be watching how India runs its own state. This is all within the last year and not in the past. I can only image if a US politician did the same for Jews and Israel what the backlash would be. They could never be elected as president or vice president.

With Israel, the current SoS is in the West Bank encouraging them. Why can't a US SoS encourage India to take back PoK? The discussion is not how Israel treats its terrorists, but for India a different standard? Come on man!

ShyamSP
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 21 Nov 2020 01:10

Mort Walker wrote:It is amazing that people here give a free pass to a politician who openly criticized the Indian EAM and met with terrorists promising them that a future administration will be watching how India runs its own state. This is all within the last year and not in the past. I can only image if a US politician did the same for Jews and Israel what the backlash would be. They could never be elected as president or vice president.

With Israel, the current SoS is in the West Bank encouraging them. Why can't a US SoS encourage India to take back PoK? The discussion is not how Israel treats its terrorists, but for India a different standard? Come on man!


Many Indian Americans are political light-weights as they are not steeped in struggle to shape deeper political personality. Excluding those in this Forum, many Indian American voting criteria is some what shallow. Mainstream media is strongly influence to shape their world view so they can't get out easily and also any access points to political engagement is typically Democrat/liberal side in institutions such as schools and non-profit and civic organizations.

While 10% (16% to 26% in CA) political shift among Indian-Americans has been seen this year and many of whom especially Hindus shifted because Modi showed some preference. A long way to go for Indian Americans for deeper political engagement in the US.

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Nov 2020 01:34

ShyamSP,

Part of the problem is that Republican party has not reached out to like minded persons regardless of ethnicity and religion. They are racists in that regard and only a few know how to put together a viable political opposition. The Democrats have reached out to students even in the math based sciences and engineering. My own daughters were specifically targeted based on their college majors, and welcomed into the Young Democrats, but not Young Republicans. I'm an independent and so there was not much I could do.

Mort Walker
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Nov 2020 03:12

I agree completely. The Republicans and the Trump campaign should have individually asked each battle ground state to verify identification envelopes and mail ballots cast; and retain all identification envelopes for a potential audit. It is very unfortunate that the Democratic Party did not observe a Model Code of Conduct and conducted American style booth capturing.

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby hnair » 21 Nov 2020 03:53

saip, ShyamSP and Mort Walker, if you guys persist with duking with each other in this forum or slap each other with pointless URLs about the results, bans will follow. There is only so much we as admins can clean up.

As multiple admins have stressed - let us keep this ONLY about Indian impact. If you don’t think the other’s post conforms to that, please report. If you respond in kind, it is not helping

ShyamSP
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 21 Nov 2020 04:07

hnair wrote:saip, ShyamSP and Mort Walker, if you guys persist with duking with each other in this forum or slap each other with pointless URLs about the results, bans will follow. There is only so much we as admins can clean up.

As multiple admins have stressed - let us keep this ONLY about Indian impact. If you don’t think the other’s post conforms to that, please report. If you respond in kind, it is not helping


HNair,
Can you change title to something like impact on India from US elections. US elections results discussion means discussing US election "results". Sorry I didn't get clarity here as there is another thread of Biden for discussing Indian impact. Sorry for the trouble in increasing moderator burden.

vera_k
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby vera_k » 21 Nov 2020 05:09

Mort Walker wrote: The Democrats have reached out to students even in the math based sciences and engineering. My own daughters were specifically targeted based on their college majors, and welcomed into the Young Democrats, but not Young Republicans. I'm an independent and so there was not much I could do.


Organizational outreach now starts in high school with ACLU chapters and getting students pre-registered to vote. One thing that must be therefore done at home starting in middle school is to have the difficult conversations on political issues necessary to provide a wider perspective to students. I particularly found my kids and friends were signing up for voting on party lines using SJW talking points without considering whether the possible outcomes are in their self interest.

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby KL Dubey » 21 Nov 2020 05:24

Mods - the posters have a fair point, there is lack of clarity on this.

I thought this thread was created in the first place to discuss US election results and aftermath, without corrupting the other threads. There are now multiple threads related to US-India issues:

1) Biden presidency impacts on India
2) India-US relations and discussion
3) Understanding the US

I would suggest the following:

- Close this thread.
- Ask posters to stop posting anywhere on BRF about US election fraud, until there is an actual court action that is enough to impact the election result. If such an event occurs, use the Understanding the US thread.
- Direct posters to discuss India impacts in the Biden presidency thread
- After Joe takes over, close that thread also, and continue in India-US relations thread as usual

saip
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby saip » 21 Nov 2020 05:53

No more posts from me in this thread until Dec 8th when all states will have certified the ballots or one of the candidates concedes.

Kashi
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Kashi » 21 Nov 2020 11:18

KLNMurthy wrote:There is no free pass. It is noted and regarded with the contempt and loathing it deserves.


I'm not quite sure what part of "seen as a role model", "broke the glass ceiling" et al., qualifies as "contempt and loathing it deserves". Rather sounds like a free pass doesn't it?

What it does go on to reinforce is the oft-stated adage- There are permanent interests that supersede everything. It is right that we Indians should take a more hard-nosed approach to things if we wish to save ourselves a bloody nose in the future- from enemies known and not-so-known.

Karan M
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Karan M » 21 Nov 2020 17:09

The ELM print media has very limited reach. Ads there subsidize the very groups who are running anti Govt propaganda more often than not. They are also poor optics for the market they intend to address.

If ads have to be given they are best on regional newsportals with different regional languages. Better than ads IMHO is to get message across via widespread dissemination using WA and mobile devices.

Cyrano
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Cyrano » 21 Nov 2020 17:35

Agree, I'm not fixated on print media, definitely not just on ELM. Its the core principle enunciation to enable a coherent narrative that is the need of the hour I feel.

Just look at this thread and all the distress about Biden-Harris & Dems coming to power. An India that is sure of its core principles that drive its initiatives and actions at home and abroad, will be much more confident of its ability to counter the narrative of say a US State Dept report of Religious Freedom or criticism on Art 370 revocation or accusations of HR abuses hurled at us. And go out and lobby effectively why funding TSP is NOK. If enough thinking effort is put in, its possible to even turn these critics to our side to some extent. (we have tied back to the topic of this thread at last :D )

Clarity on principles leads to effective articulation of positions. Choice of media is of 2nd level importance.

Got to do some errands now, SH is already shooting one of those looks ;-)

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Primus » 21 Nov 2020 18:28

When did this thread morph into Indian policy going forward? Welcome discussion though.

I for one am done with the US elections, being neutral I don't have a dog in this fight, but for those of us living here it has been a sorry statement on the current political climate of this country. I am severely disappointed that neither side could come up with better candidates - everything and anything to garner more votes from a gullible and severely polarized population.

As for India, for the first time in a thousand years, we have the possibility of directing our own future. Sadly though, the rot runs real deep and until the foundation is dismantled and rebuilt, this edifice will never reach its potential heights.

Got this in a WA forward. A physician turned IPS officer turned MP writes well, and yet writes with a specific agenda in mind. How does one even begin to fight against this kind of entrenched BIF who have the power and reach they obviously do, as seen in the True Indology saga this week.

https://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists ... mar/page/1

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Karan M » 21 Nov 2020 19:49

Agree completely on fixing the edifice on which the state depends to run its writ. If the edifice is deeply biased how will the average citizen have their complaints redressed. Precisely why we need to fix the mindset wherein serious concerns are trivialized and those attempting to fix them are called Nazis as the author of the article implies.

The author might want to see what the hon. HC observed in 2009.
https://mobile.twitter.com/swati_gs/sta ... 4185148424

Her entire TL is propaganda busting, based on facts which are alarming by themselves.
https://mobile.twitter.com/swati_gs

Suraj
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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Suraj » 22 Nov 2020 00:37

Moved a bunch of conversation to the Indian politics thread.

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Re: 2020 US election results discussion

Postby Suraj » 22 Nov 2020 04:16

This thread is now locked .


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