Social Media Watch Thread

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ritesh
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by ritesh »

Its time to cage the tiger, the free roam period is over. Now govt needs to bell the cat and bring it under accountability of indian jurisdiction.
kancha
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by kancha »

chetak wrote:
Tanaji wrote:Uh no... it was started by 2 Russians. There is nothing Indian about it remotely.
Sorry, I was thinking Hike. My bad
Hike Messenger, also called Hike Sticker Chat, was an Indian freeware, cross-platform instant messaging (IM), Voice over IP (VoIP) application which was launched on 12 December 2012 by Kavin Bharti Mittal and is now owned by Hike Private Limited.
Hike saw $175Mn investment by China's Tencent in 2016 - Its first major capital infusion.
I wrote about it some months back.

On Hike Messenger – The China Owned ‘Indian’ App

Twitter Link
arshyam
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by arshyam »

pgbhat wrote:Governments have accountability, platforms have none: Sridhar Vembu on India vs Big Tech
Ta-da. Cogent statements. :)
........issue is that platforms like Facebook and Twitter or even YouTube, are getting themselves the power to determine what is acceptable speech. And they are doing this across the world on a variety of topics. They will say algorithms, but it's not really algorithms, it's people who determine what gets seen or not seen. I come from a perspective where sovereignty matters, India has to determine what is appropriate for our standards, our values, all of that. And we don't want a Facebook or Twitter dictating terms to us. And our history as a country was dominated by a company, the East India company should give us pause on all these matters. India has a legally elected government. Even if we disagree with it, there are elections courts all of these mechanisms There is no need for a Facebook to determine what is acceptable discourse in India.
What is your reading of the way section 79 of the IT Act has been applied, because these platforms will now lose the immunity they have and will be liable for third-party content?

Are they a neutral carrier of information like a fiber optic provider? Or are they like a publishing house? And the distinction has been blurred now because they used to be more like a fiber optic provider but now they've actively started to control the information. So then why should they have immunity? Our country may have a different decision on what is acceptable to us, there cannot be a global standard on this, because what is acceptable speech varies by jurisdiction. So that is why I think these are these issues are very much political. And politics is not a dirty word, this must be debated, this must be a legal mechanism, parliament has to pass laws. That's where we are heading on this.
You missed this question saar :)
And what about concerns that actions against global platforms will harm India's image at the international level, in the way it sees democratic freedoms, and that this might also impact investment at a later date?

Indians should stop acting like school kids looking for approval from school teachers. There is not some global school teacher that is approving our actions. We don't need them. And, you know, the State Department is issuing reports on India, India should be issuing reports on the US too. Would anybody argue that India is less free than China? And investment was flooding into China. Investors go because there's money to be made, not because they somehow know Twitter faces some trouble with the Indian government or something. So we should stop thinking about these issues.
Everyone should read the full interview, it's absolutely worth it. Such a clear unambiguous stand as opposed to the craven pusillanimity of a certain ex-CEO of a "most-admired" Indian company. We need more leaders like him in tech. Not many may know, but he was appointed to the National Security Advisory Board last year for a 2 year term.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

Additional laws need to be brought in about mandatory trainings about Hinduphobia and genocides committed on Hindus if any social media company wants operate in India.

For example, Twitter was banning anything to do with cows. Why?

Algorithms need to be made public and all data can't leave India.
Need govt audits, weekly fillings about everything, etc.

All their employees need to have their lives public and each of their connections outside India need to be declared to GoI.

End of the day, the safety and privacy of Indian citizens is most important and anything foreign needs to be investigated inside out on a weekly basis.

Foreigners, especially billionaires, discussing anything India should be labeled as colonial and law should be passed to criminalize it.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by vijayk »

Can Kangana Ranaut or someone else who were banned sue the scums for 1000 cr damage tomorrow?

Can a cop whoo was affected by Delhi violence sue the scums for damages?

If so, we need to bring in 10000 cases on the jack sh1t ASAP
Tanaji
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Tanaji »

No because they are protected by their status as an intermediary that gives them safe harbour.

This is what GoI is arguing as they are editing comments, the intermediary proviso should not apply.

Frankly this GoI is all talk and no action. It will rattle a bit and turn back with its tail between its legs and try to appear as the good little boy for its Twitter master.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Rudradev »

^ Wait a couple of days and see what happens.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

Supporters fail to post on Koo first and then on foreign platforms.

https://www.kooapp.com/profile/Gaunandisewa
https://mobile.twitter.com/GauNandiSewa

BJP has obviously failed to utilize Koo during the second wave of china virus to coordinate help.

All the local BJP leaders should be on Koo to listen and solve problems. People would start switching.
banrjeer
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by banrjeer »

Bots on SM have got trained on how to hate India over decades. India is an island of public opinion that's at odds with its surroundings. Anti India rhetoric outclasses and drowns out any Indian origin perspectives in purchasing power parity and zeal.

How do you go after bots and long lived algorithms? Strategies are needed.

I'm on twitter and Koo. I would dump twitter if it was beneficial , but don't now a way out or an alternative. Twitter does allow oe to keep tabs on marginalized counter cultural perspectives worldwide.

I dont even know if koo is available in a browser
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by arshyam »

darshan wrote:Algorithms need to be made public and all data can't leave India.
Need govt audits, weekly fillings about everything, etc.
darshan wrote:All their employees need to have their lives public and each of their connections outside India need to be declared to GoI.
These are the kind of things that are done by arbitrary banana republics. Under what constitutional provision or section of IPC do you propose GoI do these things?

Let's say GoI still implements your suggestions somehow, what happens when a different (Congress or their like) party is at the helm down the line? Where would nationalist types go to express themselves? Or do you propose banning other parties and maybe even elections?

As for making algorithms public, sure, let's kill off all innovation, including that by desi alternatives. Why would anyone ideate/innovate/invest in any tech effort if GoI one day could arbitrarily declare things be public (or, in other words, effectively nationalised)? Again, what happens when a different/less-nationalist-minded party (sadly, there are a few) is calling the shots, won't it be even more easier for foreign tech companies to kill off desi attempts?

Sorry, but your suggestions are getting more outlandish by the day and appear to try to harm the country itself in the name of offering "suggestions" - these suggestions are so far off the field that no govt would touch them with a barge pole, but would enable you to continue to keep carping on this and that.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by m_saini »

arshyam wrote: Let's say GoI still implements your suggestions somehow, what happens when a different (Congress or their like) party is at the helm down the line? Where would nationalist types go to express themselves? Or do you propose banning other parties and maybe even elections?
Not taking sides in the argument but we shouldn't handicap ourselves thinking what a future gov might do. The other side doesn't give a rat's ass about what BJP might or might not do when it comes to power. They declare an emergency and change the constitution as they see fit, supreme court and opposition parties be damned.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by sanjayc »

arshyam wrote:
darshan wrote:Algorithms need to be made public and all data can't leave India.
Need govt audits, weekly fillings about everything, etc.
darshan wrote:All their employees need to have their lives public and each of their connections outside India need to be declared to GoI.
These are the kind of things that are done by arbitrary banana republics. Under what constitutional provision or section of IPC do you propose GoI do these things?

Let's say GoI still implements your suggestions somehow, what happens when a different (Congress or their like) party is at the helm down the line? Where would nationalist types go to express themselves? Or do you propose banning other parties and maybe even elections?

As for making algorithms public, sure, let's kill off all innovation, including that by desi alternatives. Why would anyone ideate/innovate/invest in any tech effort if GoI one day could arbitrarily declare things be public (or, in other words, effectively nationalised)? Again, what happens when a different/less-nationalist-minded party (sadly, there are a few) is calling the shots, won't it be even more easier for foreign tech companies to kill off desi attempts?

Sorry, but your suggestions are getting more outlandish by the day and appear to try to harm the country itself in the name of offering "suggestions" - these suggestions are so far off the field that no govt would touch them with a barge pole, but would enable you to continue to keep carping on this and that.
When Congress is in power and enacting draconian laws to screw political competitors, does it bother what will BJP do with the same laws when it comes to power? Your argument is an example of tying oneself in knots voluntarily to cripple oneself. Also, it is common to have two different set of rules - one for native companies and another for foreign owned companies. Just like any Indian is free to start a newspaper in India, a foreigner starting a newspaper in India will have a plethora of restrictions applicable.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by arshyam »

m_saini wrote:Not taking sides in the argument but we shouldn't handicap ourselves thinking what a future gov might do. The other side doesn't give a rat's ass about what BJP might or might not do when it comes to power. They declare an emergency and change the constitution as they see fit, supreme court and opposition parties be damned.
sanjayc wrote:When Congress is in power and enacting draconian laws to screw political competitors, does it bother what will BJP do with the same laws when it comes to power? Your argument is an example of tying oneself in knots voluntarily to cripple oneself. Also, it is common to have two different set of rules - one for native companies and another for foreign owned companies. Just like any Indian is free to start a newspaper in India, a foreigner starting a newspaper in India will have a plethora of restrictions applicable.
Both of you have missed the point. I am talking about policy actions undertaken by the GoI - it is one thing to enforce the current law and policy, but stepping outside of legal bounds as darshan-ji is advocating is only a recipe for more problems down the road. This is assuming that these "policies" would stand muster in our courts, which they most likely won't, and thus provide more opportunities for Modi bashing. I hope that's not the goal here.

Another aspect of these "policies": any subsequent (and god forbid, less nationalist govt) can simply cite the current GoI's action as a fig leaf to muzzle our (nationalists') voices. What would be the recourse you'd suggest at that point? Since governments and courts operate by precedence (in addition to written law), any missteps now will become the norm tomorrow. So our supposedly jingoistic and well-meaning suggestions would only hurt ourselves later. That's why I am saying what I am saying, and asking darshan-ji to ground his suggestions in law. GoI's actions bear out what I am saying, though some of us here don't like it and want GoI to act like Rajini and do dishoom-dishoom. Unfortunately, Rajini is a film star and Modi is the PM - which they know, but some of us don't seem to.

Btw, this is true not just for GoI, but any government in any country that follow norms. Of course, banana republics are fully exempt. So unless the latter is how you both classify our country, kindly think of rational suggestions that adhere to our laws.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

arshyam wrote: Btw, this is true not just for GoI, but any government in any country that follow norms. Of course, banana republics are fully exempt. So unless the latter is how you both classify our country, kindly think of rational suggestions that adhere to our laws.
My suggestions were around getting the laws enacted to such effect against the foreign companies. The precedent is already set by these companies and their govts with respect to China. These companies also toe Chinese line without having any operation in China. One can always cry after having the Hemu effect. Dharnics can let go of the opportunity they have right now to correct the course or always try to apply surgical strike to every and any problem.

One can also argue that the present state of India is not that far from banana republics when looking at MH, WB, KL, Delhi, RJ, etc. WB CM just kicked PM. Something that Delhi CM does on regular basis. Less said about the judiciary the better. And then there's famous line up of UPSC graduates.

Let's not worry about effects on Indian companies. If non dharmics want to take you to cleaners, they will without any worries. Article 35a to altered copies of constitution to adding words like secularism outside constitution and enforcing as constitution...... Long list of sabotaged industries and companies. The latest being SII operators having to run for their lives and leave India. There are many threads within this forum that cry about progress on various products. Train-18 saga is one example that easily comes to mind. Indian companies aren't going to be afforded the same environment when non dharmics are in power.

Anything is possible when non dharmics are in power. Which precedents allowed nehru clan to do what they did? Why aren't others following the same precedents? Which precedents are being followed in MH, DL, KL,WB, etc.? Judiciary is always setting various precedents. There's no prior history of one side using other side's precedents. If you can prove that what nationalists do or don't has any effect on what anti nationals do, that would be great. Nationalists can continue to walk on egg shells all day if desired instead of thinking about how to permanently make sure that anti nationals don't come to power. Oh there's no mercy or cross checking precedents when they do come back to power.

My suggestion would be to grow out of this mentality of what if masters didn't provide railways or another Twitter. Where will we go and what will we do? Where will this Modi be if Twitter wasn't there? Etc. Similar arguments are also thrown when it comes to judiciary. Look they threw one or two things so let's just ignore the rest as we owe them.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

Companies like Twitter won't be doing what they are doing and acting as God unless they already thought that India is a banana republic that they can walk over and kick around.

Only banana republics would allow companies like Twitter to operate without any transparency and accountability.

Companies interfering in the infernal affairs should not have any right to operate. Especially foreign companies with no transperancy or oversight. These companies don't even store data and operate within the host countries. Sorry, in this situation I don't subscribe to the foolishness of using fig leaves of IP rights. As a company once you venture into the areas reserved for elected govts and citizens of country, then you don't have any rights.

Have Indian companies do the same in US and see what happens. Let's see if US allows the interference and walks the straight line.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by rsingh »

Is there any WTO clause that stops GOI from taking action? Why GOI released long statement explaining its case against FB and titar ? Just take action and be with it.Is it because we are afraid of loosing US back-office jobs for IT sector?
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by kit »

deleted
Last edited by kit on 30 May 2021 02:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

Wrong. They have anti Hindu and anti India agenda.
Banning and harassing handles that run animal shelters and are against animal cruelty have nothing to do with Modi. Similarly handles countering and debating history and genocides of Hindus.
Handles talking about various jihads against Hindus have nothing to do with Modi.
.....
‘Fact-checkers have just one agenda- hate Modi’: Ravi Shankar Prasad slams Twitter over lack of transparency in its fact-checking
https://www.opindia.com/2021/05/ravi-sh ... -checkers/
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by vera_k »

Isn't clear whether this was happening with messages originating in the USA or in Israel and other West Asian countries.

Rep. Tlaib says social media has censored Palestinians, calls for change
Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., on Tuesday called for social media companies to stop censoring Palestinian political speech on their platforms.
Tlaib also pointed to a New York Times report describing extremist Israeli groups using Facebook-owned WhatsApp to coordinate violent mob attacks on Palestinians as an illustration of a “disturbing double-standard.”
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Vayutuvan »

darshan wrote: Have Indian companies do the same in US and see what happens. Let's see if US allows the interference and walks the straight line.
RT, Al Jazeera, and CCTV are banned in the US.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Rudradev »

Vayutuvan wrote:
darshan wrote: Have Indian companies do the same in US and see what happens. Let's see if US allows the interference and walks the straight line.
RT, Al Jazeera, and CCTV are banned in the US.
Who told you?

All are available in the USA in many cable packages. In fact you can stream RT in the US right here: https://www.rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

Not going to sully this forum with links to Al Jazeera or Chinese Global TV Network livestreams but they are easy enough to find in the US.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by krisna »

Koo has compiled with all GOI requirements regarding OTT rules etc. GOI mentions that social media companies > 5 million have to follow it. Considering that KOO app did it means it has crossed 5 millions users. latest news is it is over 6 million downloads. The target is 10 million by year end. the way it is going may reach in next 3 months if twitter behaves like what is now.


Since the latest spat with GOI and twitter, there are more downloads with Koo this week with a mini jump in about 5% extra.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by krisna »

wrt AL jazeera and RT and many other channels, I watch all of them thru IP tv . All have offices in USA. they also have reporters inside usa who are all americans only reporting to these channels.

on positive side we do have wion tv of India, also with some reporters inside usa.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by mappunni »

Very eloquently put by Sridhar Vembu on Twitter, Facebook, and Google.



Another take on the same issue by Abhijit Iyer-Mitra

Rudradev
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Rudradev »

https://www.opindia.com/2021/05/ncpcr-o ... itter-inc/

NCPCR asks Delhi Police to file FIR against Twitter India for lying that it is not related to Twitter Inc, violating POCSO Act
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Tanaji »

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-7337849/

The neo East india company Twitter is trying to do an end run around the IT laws by using US residents as the mandated grievance officers. Lets see how the GoI responds, my guess it will once again do nothing and claim it is the courts that are stopping it.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

The country of origin process would be the benchmark. For that GoI continued to allow leeway and extensions way past all the money making seasons with no Babus deployed outside the place like Amazon to force compliance.

There is no alternative other than getting citizens of India understand the new age colonialism and reincarnation of east India companies. And all messages need to be in simple terms that normal public can take home.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by vijayk »

Can we put in laws like Florida state that folks can sue or states can fine these companies?
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by chetak »

Image
Cyrano
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Cyrano »

One last chance. The GoI is playing this very well.

Image
Image
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Cyrano »

Twitter stock is trading at $59, down from a high of $77.63 on 01march2021. Twitter will act when the stock price gets hit. A renewable 15 day blocking on twitter until compliance is demonstrated will do the trick.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Tanaji »

Does anyone know if the regulatory framework allows for Twitter to operate without any India based offices? What the above letter is saying that Twitters intermediary status may be withdrawn if they don’t comply. What is stopping Twitter from pulling out of India entirely? Intermediary or not it does not matter in that case as there is no one to file cases against.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Lisa »

vijayk wrote:Can we put in laws like Florida state that folks can sue or states can fine these companies?
Twitter etc are based in the US and they can be fined and these fine can be collected. If Twitter is fined in India AND it does not have an Indian office, how is such a fine to be collected? Just shut them down or better still seize their domain in India and auction it (I am sure their is a way).
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by arshyam »

Tanaji wrote:Does anyone know if the regulatory framework allows for Twitter to operate without any India based offices? What the above letter is saying that Twitters intermediary status may be withdrawn if they don’t comply. What is stopping Twitter from pulling out of India entirely? Intermediary or not it does not matter in that case as there is no one to file cases against.
That's probably what they are aiming at - don't comply, GoI revokes their status, Twitter pulls out - end result, no action can be taken against them. Twitter India will simply claim they are not related, while Twitter US would run a campaign about big bad India, no FoE, and other nandi droppings.

I still can't see how they'd benefit after the dust settles down. How much MAU will they lose if they pull out of India, and what would be their revenue hit? Going by their behaviour, it does not seem to be that much.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

Election manipulation tools are extension of overall system and will continue to exist as long as relevant. Irrespective of their financial losses. Ones that bother me the most are chinese phones on nearterm horizon.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by Tanaji »

arshyam wrote:
I still can't see how they'd benefit after the dust settles down. How much MAU will they lose if they pull out of India, and what would be their revenue hit? Going by their behaviour, it does not seem to be that much.
I doubt they have any revenue from India. However their ability to show ads to India based audiences remains unaffected. There are lots of MNCs that can show ads using their head offices outside India.

Me thinks this will be another superficial action by this government that will have no real impact.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

Pretty much all western companies toe Chinese line even without having any business in china. So the whole revenue part is irrelevant.
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

There are warnings about all sorts of things but not about this platforms. Platforms like Twitter even show all sorts of warnings before clicking on a cow video but doesn't have anything about dark side of the platform.
Rape of a 16-year-old minor girl in Mumbai by her ‘Instagram friends’ reveal a dark side of social media no one talks about
https://www.opindia.com/2021/06/16-year ... m-friends/
....
Privacy, data leaks, cyber crimes, morphing and doxxing are terms alien to the young who have unlimited access to digital devices and social media without understanding the perils of it. With technology at our fingertips but very little knowledge on how to make correct use of it, the humongous virtual world act more like a trap especially for young minds.
....
As per a 2021 data, social media applications such as Snapchat, Tik Tok and Instagram have the 13-34 age group as their largest active audience. With abusive, sexual and violent content unfurled all across these platforms with very little monitoring, it is simply trapping more and more children in the virtual world, dragging them far away from reality.

From making friends to fans, social media acceptance is seen as an achievement by the teens thus pushing them to indulge in age-inappropriate activities to get the ‘desired reach.’
....
As parents worry about the mental health and growing lack of confidence and communication skills among their children, the big tech is viewing the teens and pre-teens as nothing more than an untapped market.
....
As per a 2016 survey, 51 per cent of teens do not share incidents of the web with their parents. Most parents are unaware of hacking, cyberbullying, data theft and radicalization all of which are easily possible through social media networks.
....
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

So, does this mean that Twitter thinks that Indira was a terrorist and jarnail a victim?
Twitter user’s account locked for calling Khalistani terrorist Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale a terrorist
https://www.opindia.com/2021/06/twitter ... terrorist/
darshan
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Re: Social Media Watch Thread

Post by darshan »

How's it that one doesn't find such things related to Islam on this platforms?
Delhi resident files complaint against Instagram for hurting Hindu sentiments with alcohol-holding God Shiva sticker
https://www.opindia.com/2021/06/instagr ... complaint/
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