2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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vijayk
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

Farrago Abdullah @abdullah_0mar

Kunal Kamra showed middle finger to CJI Arvind Bobde. NOTHING happened. All is well.

Ajeet Bharti criticized Supreme court and attorney general grants sanction to initiate criminal contempt proceedings against him.

That's the tweet.
Anshul Saxena @AskAnshul
Attorney General refused consent for criminal contempt action on:

1. Swara Bhasker for comment on Ayodhya verdict

2. Prashant Bhushan for remark against CJI

But, Ajeet Bharti be punished because he questioned Judiciary on Bengal violence, anti CAA protests & 3 Cr pending cases

Look at the hypocrisy and criminal brain
Nalini @nalinisharma_
BREAKING: Attorney General KK Venugopal refuses to give consent for initiation of contempt proceedings against journalist Rajdeep Sardesai. AG says tweets made by Sardesai are “not so serious so as to undermine the majesty of the Supreme Court”
LawBeat @LawBeatInd

BREAKING UPDATE: Attorney General grants sanction to initiate criminal contempt proceedings against @NijiSachiv for his YouTube video with allegedly “scurrilous" "vituperative" and "highly derogatory" words against Supreme Court and its judges.

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iMac_too
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Venugopal is quite open about his leanings. Yet Modi govt gave him extension
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by kvraghav »

Actually, when it comes to key govt posts, Modi was never as witty as we assume he is. You can check his rule in Gujrath also. In somr cases, he is half the leader that we assume he is.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

@dghconference proudly proclaims that it aired the conference on a christian evangelical channel.



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Cyrano
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

We need to distinguish between "epics and puranas" and "shastras, treatises and other such texts".

To say 4 tusked elephants were mentioned in the Ramayana therefore they might have existed is fine in the cultural realm. Just like the "Yali" carved on the pillars of many South Indian temples which is a mix of lion, tiger, horse etc. It doesnt matter if the Yali existed or not.

But to assert specifically that "because four tusked elephants where motioned, and elsewhere western scientists dated them to be 1.6M yrs old therefore Ramayana is older than that" is unnecessary. What is the need to date Ramayana based on some western research? Ramayana needs no such contrived propping up to justify its importance to Hindus. The precise "age" of our "timeless epics" doesn't matter to us, who don't have the same linear concept of time. And the west doesn't understand the socio-cultural and dharmic significance of Ramayana, so even if we link it to some of their research and prove that its 1.6M yrs old, it will make no difference to their attitude. So the whole exercise is futile.

Dating the Indian epics based on celestial positions of stars mentioned is indeed an interesting exercise. Because once the positions mentioned are clearly understood, astronomers can work out when such confluences were possible in the past.

But here again, from a cultural perspective "the hindus don't need it, the west won't get it" still applies. Secondly, such exercises can sometimes go no where because of the oral transmission traditions and multiple versions of our epics and Puranas. And when that happens India bashers will all too gleefully descend upon us.

My point is, trying to prove the veracity or validity of our epics and Puranas to get the west to recognize their greatness in itself amounts to accepting a western yardstick to determine how we should value our epics & Puranas. If anyone dares to criticise Indian beliefs, the response should be, please spend your time in proving "immaculate conception" or that "the sun goes hiding in a murky pond during the night" to keep the faith of your own ilk. We don't care what you think of us.

The shastras and other works that deal with mathematics and sciences are a totally different matter. We need to study them, conduct research, understand and disseminate the concepts therein, to prevent their appropriation, repackaging and sell-back to us by the west, and claim our inventions and discoveries as rightfully ours. Our ancient texts hold immense potential help us enrich our present day understanding of many subjects and if we can, as worthy descendants of our rishis and munis, we must strive to add to its corpus and move it forward. That would be a really worthwhile endeavour.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

Kaivalya wrote:^^^
It is sometimes sad that goras have to verify the suitability of the design because we simply dont know or haven't had the chance to interpret appropriately yet
https://ramanisblog.in/2020/06/19/india ... nia-video/
Its indeed sad that we attempt to defend vaimanika shashtra based on such rudimentary research by a gora in soot-boot with a wind tunnel to infer that an oblongate cigar shaped structure is aerodynamic and generates lift. Even a brick would generate "some" lift.

Vaimanika Shastra Seems to be bunkum as determined by our own Indian scientists of IISc Bangalore way back in 1974.

Many cultures in India, Egypt, the Mayas, the Incas etc have built amazingly huge and perfectly designed structures, which is not possible without a great degree of understanding of geometry, trigonometry, algebra (from Persian al-jabr which might have been based on Indian works of Brahmagupta etc. they could have learnt from centres like Takshasila, Nalanda etc.), calculus etc. which then spread to Greece and Europe. And superb engineering principles, understanding for meterial properties such as strength, coefficient of expansion, metallurgy, solid and fluid mechanics etc etc... The constructions they have left behind is proof enough :)

There is renewed interest in Vedic and ancient Indian mathematics these days and thats great !
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Case in point: Expect more repudiation of “decolonialism” in toto from these academics.
It was once gospel for them, but now that they have tenure and fancy professorships it no longer has utility
via@vjgtweets



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This is like a short biography of @PriyamvadaGopal
chetak
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

some of the participants


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Kaivalya
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Kaivalya »

Cyrano wrote:
Kaivalya wrote:^^^
It is sometimes sad that goras have to verify the suitability of the design because we simply dont know or haven't had the chance to interpret appropriately yet
https://ramanisblog.in/2020/06/19/india ... nia-video/
Even a brick would generate "some" lift.

Vaimanika Shastra Seems to be bunkum as determined by our own Indian scientists of IISc Bangalore way back in ...

There is renewed interest in Vedic and ancient Indian mathematics these days and thats great !
Cyrano saar,
For some reason, you are missing the points made earlier in a hurry to be dismissive. In the same wikipedia entry ot in the book cover it is referring to maharishi bharadwaj's work. Keep referring to the pramanam's and publish a book Or refer to dayanand swami's rig veda translation that talks about vimanas etc.

The point was not to take an history channel alien hypotheses from some gora but to evaluate it ourselves. Also When I mentioned vaimanika sastra, I didn't mean 1 book published in 1900s. If you are an aeronautical engineer and a **sanskrit authority** publish a paper debunking both and we can call it done...

Till then you and I have opinions that we need to keep to ourselves.

Last from me on this topic
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by arshyam »

Cyrano wrote:without a great degree of understanding of geometry, trigonometry, algebra (from Persian al-jabr which might have been based on Indian works of Brahmagupta etc.
There is little reason for doubt, algebra was fairly well developed in India well before al-Khwarizmi's time:

https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/P ... chapter-7/
The Bakhshali manuscript.... L Gurjar discusses its date in detail, and concludes it can be dated no more accurately than 'between 2nd century BC and 2nd century AD'. He offers compelling evidence by way of detailed analysis of the contents of the manuscript (originally carried by R Hoernle). His evidence includes the language in which it was written ('died out' around 300 AD), discussion of currency found in several problems, and the absence of techniques known to have been developed by the 5th century. Further support of these dates is provided by several occurrences of terminology found only in the manuscript, (which form the basis of a paper by M Channabasappa).

<snip>

The B. Ms. highlights developments in Arithmetic and Algebra. The arithmetic contained within the work is of such a high quality that it has been suggested:

... In fact [the] Greeks [are] indebted to India for much of the developments in Arithmetic. [LG, P 53]

This quote 'throws open' the traditional Eurosceptic opinion of the history (and origins) of mathematics. Yet even today histories of mathematics rarely acknowledge this contribution of the Indian sub-continent and the B. Ms. is rarely if ever mentioned.
<snip>
By the end of the 2nd century AD mathematics in India had attained a considerable stature, and had become divorced from purely practical and religious requirements, (although it is worth noting that over the next 1000 years the majority of mathematical developments occurred within works on astronomy). The topics of algebra, arithmetic and geometry had developed significantly and it is widely thought that the decimal place value system of notation had been (generally) perfected by 200 AD, the consequence of which was far reaching.
From Aryabhatiya, written by Aryabhatta around 5th century CE:
https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/P ... hapter-10/
In the mathematical verses of the Aryabhatiya the following topics are covered:

Arithmetic:

Method of inversion.

Various arithmetical operators, including the cube and cube root are though to have originated in Aryabhata's work. Aryabhata can also reliably be attributed with credit for using the relatively 'new' functions of squaring and square rooting.

Algebra:

Formulas for finding the sum of several types of series.

Rules for finding the number of terms of an arithmetical progression.

Rule of three - improvement on Bakshali Manuscript.

Rules for solving examples on interest - which led to the quadratic equation, it is clear that Aryabhata knew the solution of a quadratic equation.


Trigonometry:

Tables of sines, not copied from Greek work (see Figure 8.2.1).

Gupta comments:

...The Aryabhatiya is the first historical work of the dated type, which definitely uses some of these (trigonometric) functions and contains a table of sines. [RG3, P 72]

Spherical trigonometry (some incorrect).

Geometry:

Area of a triangle, similar triangles, volume rules.

It has been suggested that Aryabhata's geometry was borrowed from the Jaina works, but this seems unlikely as it is generally accepted he would not have been familiar with them.

Also of relevance is the use of 'word numerals' and 'alphabet numerals', which are first found in Aryabhata's work. We can argue that this was not due to the absence of a satisfactory system of numeration but because it was helpful in poetry. C Srinivasiengar quaintly describes it as an:

...Exceedingly queer, if original method of enumeration. [CS, P 43]

However the work of Aryabhata also affords a proof that:

...The decimal system was well in vogue. [CS, P 43]

Of the mathematics contained within the Aryabhatiya the most remarkable is an approximation for π\piπ, which is surprisingly accurate. The value given is: π\piπ = 3.1416

With little doubt this is the most accurate approximation that had been given up to this point in the history of mathematics. Aryabhata found it from the circle with circumference 62832 and diameter 20000. Critics have tried to suggest that this approximation is of Greek origin. However with confidence it can be argued that the Greeks only used π=sqrt10\pi =sqrt{10}π=sqrt10 and π=227\pi =\large\frac{22}{7}π=722​ and that no other values can be found in Greek texts.
^^ this entire thesis is well worth a read if one is interested in the history of Indian mathematics. Lots of useful info.


This article has some good references as well, but it does not allow me to quote from it: https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2019/05/ ... ent-india/


https://www.aramcoworld.com/Articles/Se ... Connection
No less significant to modern mathematics are the works of Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi. Born in the late eighth century. In the Khwarazam oasis, in what is now Khiva, Uzbekistan, Al-Khwarizmi moved to Baghdad during the reign of Al-Mamun. There, he served as a teacher and scholar in the famous Bayt al-Hikma (House of Wisdom), where the arts of translation and scholarship reached their zenith. His writings freely reference mathematical computations borrowed from Indus Valley. In his Kitab al-Jabr wa al-Muqabala (The Book of Manipulation and Restoration), he lays out its purpose:

[To teach] What is easiest and most useful in arithmetic, such as men constantly require in cases of inheritance, legacies, partition, lawsuits, and trade, and in all their dealings with one another, or where the measuring of lands, the digging of canals, geometrical computations, and other objects of various sorts and kinds are concerned.

This composition served as a popular introduction to what became algebra, based on methods acquired from India, which al-Khwarizmi simplified from their original metrical (poetic) forms, writing them out in prose with explanations that have resonated ever since. The Kitab al-Jabr wa al-Muqabala, translated into Latin, made a significant impact in Europe—so much so that part of its title, al-jabr (“restoration”), became synonymous with the equation theory that we know today as algebra.
So there you have it - al-Khwarizmi's work was written as prose, making it easy for people to learn from, whereas the earlier versions used in India were done for more specific purposes. Without taking away credit from al-Khwarizmi for understanding the source material and expanding on it, the origin is clearly Indic. Even his book title contains the word "compendium" (Kitāb al-mukhtaṣar fī ḥisāb al-jabr wal-muqābala) implying he is collecting and summarizing other works, along with his contributions. Just like the so-called "Arabic numerals", though his works on the latter credit India in the book's title itself: kitāb al-ḥisāb al-hindī, or The book of Indian Mathematics.

There is this reference to Diophantus as the "father of Algebra". Nonsense. If one were to consider the formulae laid out in the Shulba Sutras, the Indic knowledge of algebra to express and solve practical problems predates Diophantus (~200-300 CE) by well over 700 years (800 BCE - 400 BCE), even if one were to go by western sources of Indian chronology. al-Khwarizmi was perhaps aware of this hoary history, so didn't claim to have invented the field, and in any case, historical appropriation of others' ideas seems to be a uniquely European trait.
chetak
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

chetak wrote:there seems to be no end to the arrogance and spin of the congis.

BTW, they "made" some pretty useless "presidents of India" and that includes (men and women) some who were spectacularly unqualified too.

So much so, that rubberstamp actually became a bad word and the word "emergency", warts and all, entered the Indian political lexicon

why did he forget to mention chi chi neverwho and his parade of biking clad goris

@ANI·1h
When you see (Mahatma) Gandhi's picture, you'll see 2-3 women around him.

Have you seen a picture of Mohan Bhagwat with any woman?


That’s because their org suppresses women & our org give them a platform.

Modi-RSS didn't make any woman PM of the country, Congress made: Rahul Gandhi

Image via@craziestlazy
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by rsingh »

What is strategic in that . Guy is dumb . Just ignore like rest of Indians do.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Pratyush »

rsingh wrote:What is strategic in that . Guy is dumb . Just ignore like rest of Indians do.
The problem is not that he is dumb. Most of the remaining congress leadership is no different. That includes the so called G23.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

The problem is not that he is dumb. Most of the remaining congress leadership is no different. That includes the so called G23.
Absolutely. The sophisticated shampoo boy who many consider as the best the Congress has to offer, while launching his new book "The Battle of Belonging" unsuspectingly walked into an encounter with J Sai Deepak and got badly mauled, the premise of his book blown to bits.

A highly enjoyable debate. Public reactions and Q&A show that Congress is ideologically bankrupt and its "anti Hindutva" plank is a dead end.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

Kaivalya saar, I might have misread your post. Apologies.

Lets continue this topic here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7200&start=440#p2514892
vijayk
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

Moved to economics thread
Last edited by vijayk on 16 Sep 2021 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

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vijayk
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

moving it to Economics thread
Last edited by vijayk on 16 Sep 2021 20:55, edited 1 time in total.
Cyrano
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

The author is a little bit behind the curve. The demand today is for a Dharmic secular state with temples freed from Govt yoke. UCC then becomes kind of moot. :)
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

@India_Policy
Uttar Pradesh should do something like 50 lakh vax doses tomorrow.

All BJP workers, down to the booth level been mobilized to get people to the vaccination centers.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Hari Seldon »

Police, anti-pollution body to enforce Delhi’s cracker ban (HT)
In a series of tweets on Wednesday, Delhi chief minister Arvind Kejriwal announced his government’s decision to implement a complete ban on crackers in Delhi, to control the rising pollution levels that are seen around Diwali every year
Another H festival, another instance of sarkari high handedness and whimsicalaity.

Ere we forget, last year the brave dilli pulis arrested 800 ordinary Hs on diwali. And witness the same pulis put on multiple layers of kid gloves when it comes to brotesting farmers, or shaheenbaug rioters and what not. Just coz they're non-H?

P.S. Wonder what happened to 'em green crackers plan?
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by williams »

Hari Seldon wrote:Police, anti-pollution body to enforce Delhi’s cracker ban (HT)
In a series of tweets on Wednesday, Delhi chief minister Arvind Kejriwal announced his government’s decision to implement a complete ban on crackers in Delhi, to control the rising pollution levels that are seen around Diwali every year
Another H festival, another instance of sarkari high handedness and whimsicalaity.

Ere we forget, last year the brave dilli pulis arrested 800 ordinary Hs on diwali. And witness the same pulis put on multiple layers of kid gloves when it comes to brotesting farmers, or shaheenbaug rioters and what not. Just coz they're non-H?

P.S. Wonder what happened to 'em green crackers plan?
Hit them where it hurts. Ban all craker imports from China. Then the tone will change.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

and the BJP termites buried deep in the woodwork


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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by AshishA »

Captain Amrinder might quit congress party.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Pratyush »

AshishA wrote:Captain Amrinder might quit congress party.
This is called snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by rsingh »

Nop. I always thought he was in wrong party.. let Joker be head of party.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Pratyush »

Captain has stepped down.

They congress is trying to replicate the BJP's strategy of Gujarat into Punjab.

Given the lack of political understanding displayed by the Congress in handling Punjab politics.

I have serious doubt about this working out.

Given a choice of AAP and INC. INC under the leadership of captain was the only choice.

Now things are totally up in the air.

Now I fear for the constitutional order in Punjab.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

the maha vasooli aghadi is unraveling fast and revelations are cascading almost on a daily basis

onion merchants, PM, president, and VP dreams are receding at a furious pace.

parambir and vaze will still end up breaking the backs of many politicians, if not artfully silenced midway.

many must be desperately approaching fadnavis for timely help and very hard to get dilli appointments



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Last edited by chetak on 18 Sep 2021 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Manish_P »

AshishA wrote:Captain Amrinder might quit congress party.
If he does, then he will have to start his own party, a la his brother farmer, Sharad Pawar.. (or even join the NCP).

He has too much pakistani baggage to join the NDA
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

former BJP leader babul supriyo joins mumtaz begum's TMC.

good riddance.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Pratyush »

Unless this achives something in a court of law. This confession is meaningless.

We have seen multiple instances of ED saying stuff during investigation. But many of the cases don't even reach the courtroom.

Where if by some miracle the case goes to trial, the accused is acquitted.

So let a conviction take place. We can celebrate.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

The only thing working against the Capt is his age, he is 79 yrs old and his son has the personality of a slice of wet bread. I don't think he'll join BJP at this age, so I think this is the end of an era. With openly Khalistani AAP on one side and partly Khalistani Siddhu led INC on another side, PJ is truly stuck between a rock and a hard place. I understand BJP changing CMs in Karnataka (rampant factionalism), Gujarat ( anti-incumbency, caste calculation) or Uttarakhand ( incompetency ) , but I cannot help but wonder what made Gandhis and their new savior Prashant Kishor decide Siddhu should replace Capt. Amrinder.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

Pratyush wrote:Unless this achives something in a court of law. This confession is meaningless.

We have seen multiple instances of ED saying stuff during investigation. But many of the cases don't even reach the courtroom.

Where if by some miracle the case goes to trial, the accused is acquitted.

So let a conviction take place. We can celebrate.
MVA is safe until 2023, the partners bicker and fight amongst themselves everyday out in front of the media but all three of them realize how lucrative it is to remain in government and keep filling their coffers.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Kati »

chetak wrote:former BJP leader babul supriyo joins mumtaz begum's TMC.

good riddance.
Some people can't overcome their personal ego ......
He was supposed to campaign against Mumtaaz Banoo at Bhawanipore seat by-election ....
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Pratyush wrote:
AshishA wrote:Captain Amrinder might quit congress party.
This is called snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
looks like he walked or was lulled into an ambush
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

Ashok Gehlot could be next followed by Bhupinder Hooda, things aren't hunky-dory in Chattisgarh either with Bhupesh Bhagel upset with Delhi congress command . Not that things are any better in BJP, its Chattisgarh and Bihar units are comatose, in Karnataka the 4 factions continue to fight openly, Rajmata in RJ is enjoying her wine, India needs a two party system.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by greatde »

It was inevitable that some leaders would leave BJP, and Babul is the highest one in the last 7 years. In uncertain political times today, the immediate task is keep the party united, given many are newbies and turncoats themselves.

Also, brings the point about internal sabotage in WB election? BJP got about reports,feedback of all good from Phase 1-5. Yet results showed TMC was winning big from Phase 1.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by m_saini »

Ambar wrote:.... India needs a two party system.
+1008
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

In 1969 at the dawn of the first major political crisis in independent India, the old Congress party split into Congress Requisitionists and Congress Organization. This split was ok because for the first time after 2 decades of the same party winning elections unopposed finally had a challenger at the national level, albeit the reasons for the fracture in the party wasn't to create a more democratic system but was more of an internal power struggle. Later the Congress (O) turned into Janata, and this too was at a state and national level, so there was a large enough umbrella for everyone opposed to the Indira regime to gather under the same flag and same manifesto. The real rot started after the emergency when Janata started to splinter, and the Congress itself turned into a mansabdari system where each state had its own strongman who was running more of a independent Congress franchise. After mandal, Janata imploded and splintered into caste/regionalist parties which continues to this day. Instead of seeing some sort of a consolidation, we are seeing more and more fragmentation of political parties where even within regional parties there are now factions, some of the factions are so silly that their fiefdom spans only 3 or 4 districts !

Both national parties will continue to see people jump ships or form their own parties. The regional parties will see further fragmentation because most of them have turned into family enterprise. The only loser in all this political pulao is the union of India.

As for Babul Supriyo, i think he just committed a political harakiri, a true example of cutting the nose to spite the face.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by AshishA »

m_saini wrote:
Ambar wrote:.... India needs a two party system.
+1008
Even that comes with its risks. The present divisions in US is much more than in India. Biden reversed almost all trump policies overnight. So I feel this extreme division leads to policy paralysis.

I feel the current one single largest party and multiple smaller regional parties works well. If BJP keeps churning good leaders we are looking at stable leadership for decades. And if BJP starts failing, other parties might rise to the occasion like BJP did in 1989.

What we do need is a mature political eco system like US has. Their selection of candidates, debate system, etc etc. The only way that can happen is if the BJP system replaces the current congi inspired system of party as family properties. The congressi culture can only go if BJP culture replaces it.
Cyrano
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Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

"What we do need is a mature political eco system like US has."

Well, off late it has produced a monkey followed by a donkey. The entire system is gripped by partisan bickering and oiled by vested interest lobbying. Archaic procedures, voting process and technology. The ONE thing that makes democracies valuable - peaceful transfer of power - was a whisker away from evaporating.
Not sure what aspect of US system we should consider merits copying to improve upon Indian system.
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