2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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Karan M
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Karan M »

Vayutuvan wrote:
Karan M wrote:Agree with the rest, that we are too internally complacent as a, people.
In 2014, India was in an extremely delicate financial situation. I heard it (almost) first hand from somebody who was told how bad the situation was six months into Modi admin. The admin big wigs were not sure about the effects of deep cleaning at that time.
TFWIW
Completely agree, previous admin had followed a scorched earth policy.
chetak
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Karan M ji,

it looks like you were right but there also seem to be many jurisdictional, as well as, ego issues to be sorted out because of a confused understanding of the notification and political parties eager to spin it their way, especially in bengal and punjab where shady govt employees are hand in glove with inimical forces.


Explained: BSF powers and jurisdiction



Explained: BSF powers and jurisdiction

The Border Security Force's jurisdiction has been extended in three states and reduced in Gujarat, all up to 50 km within the border. What powers does BSF enjoy? Why was the revision made, and why are Punjab and Bengal opposing it?



Deeptiman Tiwary
October 15, 2021

BSF jurisdiction, Border Security Force, BSF in Punjab, BJP in West Bengal, BSF jurisdiction extension explained, Indian ExpressThe government said it was exercising the powers under the Border Security Force Act of 1968.

The Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) has extended the jurisdiction of the Border Security Force (BSF) up to 50 km inside the international borders in Punjab, West Bengal and Assam. The BSF’s powers — which include arrest, search and seizure — were limited to up to 15 km in these states. At the same time, the Ministry has reduced BSF’s area of operation in Gujarat from 80 km from the border, to 50 km.

The move, announced by a gazette notification on Monday, has been criticised by the Punjab and West Bengal governments, which have called it an attack on the federal structure and an attempt to curtail the rights of the state police.

Also read |Most areas on Amritsar-Jalandhar highway under BSF jurisdiction now
What does the notification say?

It amends the schedule of an earlier notification of July 3, 2014 in terms of the BSF’s jurisdiction, which it outlines as: “the whole of the area comprised in the States of Manipur, Mizoram, Tripura, Nagaland and Meghalaya and Union Territories of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh and so much of the area comprised within a belt of fifty kilometres in the States of Gujarat, Rajasthan, Punjab, West Bengal and Assam, running along the borders of India”.

The government said it was exercising the powers under the Border Security Force Act of 1968.

In its 2014 notification, the MHA had outlined BSF’s jurisdiction as “the whole of the area comprised in the States of Manipur, Mizoram, Tripura, Nagaland and Meghalaya and so much of the area comprised within a belt of eighty kilometres in the State of Gujarat, fifty kilometres in the State of Rajasthan and fifteen kilometres in the States of Punjab, West Bengal and Assam, running along the borders of India”.

BSF jurisdiction, Border Security Force, BSF in Punjab, BJP in West Bengal, BSF jurisdiction extension explained, Indian Express The international borders in the three states where BSF’s jurisdiction has been enhanced. While the places marked here are within 50 km of the respective borders, this is not meant to represent the BSF’s jurisdiction. The BSF does not mark its jurisdiction on a map.

What kind of powers can the BSF exercise in this jurisdiction?

Its jurisdiction has been extended only in respect of the powers it enjoys under Criminal Procedure Code (CrPC), Passport (Entry into India) Act, 1920 and the Passport Act, 1967. BSF currently has powers to arrest and search under these laws.

It also has powers to arrest, search and seize under the NDPS Act, Arms Act, Customs Act and certain other laws. Its jurisdiction under these laws has not been changed, meaning its powers under these will continue to be only up to 15 km inside the border in Punjab, Assam and West Bengal, and will remain as far as 80 km in Gujarat.

Why and when were these powers given to BSF?

In 1969, the BSF first got powers to arrest and search under the CrPC with respect to certain laws such as the Foreigners Act, The Passport Act, forex laws and Customs Act. BSF sources said even before 2014, they had a jurisdiction of 15 km inside the border in several states.

“At that time, border areas were sparsely populated and there were hardly any police stations for miles. To prevent trans-border crimes, it was felt necessary that BSF is given powers to arrest. While police stations have now come up near the border, they continue to be short-staffed,” a BSF officer said.

Why has the government extended the jurisdiction?

Sources said the objective of the move is to bring in uniformity and also to increase operational efficiency. “Earlier we had different jurisdictions in different states. This has been done to bring uniformity to our jurisdiction,” BSF IG (Operations) Solomon Yash Kumar Minz said.

Sources said BSF often gets information relating to crime scenes that may be out of their jurisdiction. “In West Bengal at times we get information that smugglers have gathered over 100 cows in a village and will take them to the border late in the night. If we act immediately, we can get all the cattle at one place. When they come to the border, they will be scattered and running,” an officer said.

MHA sources said the move was also necessitated due to increasing instances of drones dropping weapons and drugs in Jammu and Kashmir and Punjab. However, the kind of drones spotted so far do not have a range beyond 20 km.

There has been no official explanation for why BSF’s jurisdiction has not been increased under the Arms Act, Customs Act and NDPS Act, which cover most of the smuggling offences on the border and deal with far greater offences.

An officer, who served in West Bengal, said this may have happened as central agencies have jurisdiction in these matters. “If BSF catches drugs beyond its jurisdiction, it can always involve the Narcotics Control Bureau, or in case of arms, the National Investigation Agency. In other matters, there may be issues
with the local police,” the officer said.


Will it impact police jurisdiction?

At a basic level, the states can argue that law and order is a state subject and enhancing BSF’s jurisdiction infringes upon powers of the state government.

In 2012, then Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had opposed a central government move to expand BSF’s jurisdiction. He had written to then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, accusing the Centre of weakening the country’s federal structure, and calling the move an attempt to “create a state within a state”.

About the new provisions, Minz said: “This is not an attack on the federal structure. Rather this is going to complement the efforts of the local police. It is an enabling provision. It’s not that the local police can’t act within the jurisdiction of the BSF. It’s just that sometimes we don’t have enough time and so BSF has been empowered to act till a greater distance and in turn strengthen the hands of the state police,” Minz said.

Asked if there could be issues with local police, Minz said, “We do everything in coordination with our sister agencies… We will inform the local police even now. The state police have better knowledge of the ground… There is no conflict with the state police here. In coming days, the state police will feel happy about these changes as they will find their state is more secure.”

Another officer pointed out that BSF cannot prosecute offenders in any case. “We can’t file chargesheets. We have to hand over every arrested individual and every seized item to the state police or Customs… There have been instances when people have been caught and the defence has argued it was outside the jurisdiction of BSF, and the accused have been let off,” the officer said.

He pointed out that in the Northeast, BSF’s jurisdiction runs throughout the states (other than Assam). “Does it mean state police are unable to function there?”

How will it be implemented?

Until now, state police and border forces have been working in tandem with minor, occasional differences. Now, with the issue taking political colour, implementation could be tricky if there are difficulties in coordination in future.

For example, be it the earlier 15 km or the enhanced 50 km, the BSF jurisdiction is not marked on a map. Sources said it is largely based on understanding between police and BSF. “If a problem arises, maybe we will devise a way to mark our jurisdiction. Currently it is a rough estimate as to which village or town is how many kilometres from the border,” a senior BSF officer said.

Another officer, who has served in Punjab, said local police often have poor understanding of the BSF jurisdiction. “Once, in Punjab, smugglers fired upon BSF over 150 m inside the Indian border when intercepted. In retaliatory fire, the smugglers were killed. The police began arguing why we had killed them when they were inside the border. It had to be explained that jurisdiction of BSF ran much deeper, and it was self-defence,” the officer said.

He said the BSF hasn’t even properly utilised its powers within 15 km. “No one goes even that far. No BSF officer wants to take up cudgels with the state police unnecessarily. After all if you can’t prosecute, you actually have no power,” he said
nachiket
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by nachiket »

Looks like a gang of Nihangs has cut off a man's hand at Singhu border for allegedly desecrating the Guru granth Sahib, murdered him and left his body hanging from a police barricade with Bhindranwale's picture behind him. And they shamelessly live streamed his torture on FB. If this doesn't make the government act swiftly to arrest and charge these fake "farmer" Khalistanis I don't know what will. We have already seen a previous murder and gang rape by these goons. People are rapidly losing their patience. I get the feeling there is a very nasty surprise waiting for the BJP in next year's state elections if they don't get their act together.

Meanwhile when the entire video where they are showing and celebrating all this is available on fb and twitter, the police geniuses claim they have no information on who is responsible and have registered an FIR against unknown persons. :roll:
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Aditya_V »

Yes, fuel prices everything is indicating that way- but that will only enbolden the murderers? AAP has been feeding housing these people.

SAD, INC, AAP, SP< BSP who all support these take no responsibility. No wonder BIF does so well and our enemies think Hindu moral can't take 2 hits.

the Truth is fascist Modi has been too soft, but I have international media coverage not only CNN, BBC< AL JAzeera, DW , some French Channel- they are against Modi and Love these Money lenders protesting against these farmers and our waiting for a riot.

The whole plan seems to is to take on BJP and see them loose the UP election, the Judicial system has completely failed in the North East Delhi Violence and has litrelly painted that People who say kill are soo nice.

The problem for the BJP any action has to be done behind the scenes in internationally invested ecosystem, hostile media.

For some reason India seems to be the nation with the largest number of traitors and compromised Media and Babudom, Police Judicary etc.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Karan M »

Chetak thank you for the detailed reply.
nachiket wrote:Looks like a gang of Nihangs has cut off a man's hand at Singhu border for allegedly desecrating the Guru granth Sahib, murdered him and left his body hanging from a police barricade with Bhindranwale's picture behind him. And they shamelessly live streamed his torture on FB. If this doesn't make the government act swiftly to arrest and charge these fake "farmer" Khalistanis I don't know what will. We have already seen a previous murder and gang rape by these goons. People are rapidly losing their patience. I get the feeling there is a very nasty surprise waiting for the BJP in next year's state elections if they don't get their act together.

Meanwhile when the entire video where they are showing and celebrating all this is available on fb and twitter, the police geniuses claim they have no information on who is responsible and have registered an FIR against unknown persons. :roll:
Unbelievable state of affairs.
nachiket
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by nachiket »

They will call Modi a fascist anyway regardless of what he does or does not do. Modi and BJP needs to worry about keeping their own voters on their side, most of whom either do not read the NYT and WaPo or do not care what they say. They do read local news about Singhu border and rising fuel prices affect them directly. BJP seems to be on a self-destructive path at the moment and it might be already too late to change course prior to the UP elections.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Prem Kumar »

Amit Shah needs to get his act together. There are 2 actions needed asap

1) A brutal show of force to let these khalistani pigs know who the alpha dog is
2) Do the same across the border. Slaughter a bunch of pigs
3) Tell the Bangladeshi Muslims (& Hasina) to not touch Hindus or pay a price

Post 2019 (after Balakot), there has been no demonstration of Kshatriyata by the state. If anything, it has behaved like a beta male.

Today is Vijayadashami. An appropriate day to channelize the inner-Durga-killing-spirit.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by m_saini »

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 2037587979

‘सबका साथ, सबका विकास’ का सामर्थ्य क्या होता है, ये मैंने गुजरात से सीखा है।

Extremely poor timing. Will look extremely stupid if they somehow manage to win but for now some mistrust is surely building on.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by m_saini »

There is also a video flying around on twitter, lots of main handles have it including people like Priti Gandhi. Won't post it here but pretty horrific stuff.

Not unlike some zetas gore videos on kaotic etc. Sikh terrorism is here.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Larry Walker »

I have seen the videos - one will mistake it for being from Afghanistan under Taliban. The most despicable aspect is watching many Sikh radicals openly justifying this barbarism. Even WaaheGuru will not forgive these imbeciles.
In the meanwhile - another horrific video of mowing down a Dussehra Jhanki is coming now on Republic Bharat from Chattisgarh. Reports as of now inform of 1 deceased and more than 20 injured - but looking at the video I am fearing more bad news.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Tanaji »

Firstly, I fully accept that the state of Indian polity is such that there is no other party that has a somewhat nationalist and Hindu interests than BJP.

However, the trust that people put in BJP is crossing rational limits and going into Trump supporters territory. The current government has no clue how to handle the people at Singhu border. The initial plan was to talk them into submission … that failed. GoI made concessions after concessions without a single counter concession. All that happened was it was a stalemate and made GoI look good in the eyes of log kya kahenge types, if that.

Next followed the policy of ignoring them. This policy has been an abject failure. Grave provocations such as the republic day incident happened without any consequences for the protestors. All this has resulted in was that the protestors realised that this is an effete government, fuelled by their own beliefs of the cowardly Hindu and martial Sikh prowess and would dare not lay a hand them.

Then another approach was tried by hiding behind the Supreme Court’s pallu. That failed as not only did it not resolve anything but also set the precedent of a SC indefinitely staying a legally valid and properly passed law in the Paliament.

This emboldened them to go further with rapes, beating up of policemen and journalists. Then it escalated to stopping army convoy.

Finally it has come to chopping off Hindusin complete Khalistani style. Yet there is no response from the GoI.

No doubt we will have people saying trust BJP. This is exact same behaviour of Trumpers who claim Trump loss is a part of a master plan where he will come back and arrest Hillary and others when he comes back to power next time around.

The BJP government has done much good, but it has failed spectacularly in this aspect. What is interesting is that this is classic communist strategy, that has been used many times before, and yet GoI has no answer.

The ground support for BJp will disappear soon if this persists. One can’t blame if people say the Congress handled the Khalistanis better than this lot…

Ok, the last statement was trolling…

Edited later: not sure if the man killed was Hindu or Dalit Sikh. Either way the post still stands
Last edited by Tanaji on 15 Oct 2021 22:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

In the early days of the agro-middlemen terrorism the same nihang sikhs had chopped off the hands of a Punjab police ASI in patiala. When these rag-tag bunch of militia rode into Delhi on the backs of their aging, skeletal horses they were hailed as "heroes" by the usual khalistani apologists and shortsighted moronic supporters of this agro-terrorist movement. This isn't the first time Singhu or Tikri terror camps have been in the news for heinous crimes. Early this year a two young women "activists" from Bengal were gang raped in Tikri and one the victims later succumbed to her injuries.

Congress handled Khalistanis better than this lot because Indira for all her shortcomings had bigger cojones than any prime minister in independent India's history, past or present. I cannot think of one who would have dared doing what she did to liberate Bangladesh , take on the Khalistanis, Pakis, North Eastern terrorists, naxals all at once. Unfortunately after her death and her duffer son taking over with his gang of sycophants its been all downhill. If Modi loses 2024 then he can thank two people for it - Amit Shah's reluctance to take hard steps and Nirmala Tai's utter incompetence.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sanjaykumar »

Deafening silence from Sikh human rights champions to be noted.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

sanjaykumar wrote:Deafening silence from Sikh human rights champions to be noted.

once they use the word "blasphemy", liberandu rats of all descriptions and persuasions will scurry away and sprint to their hidey holes to lie low.

Human rights are never for the lower castes.

you need to be a jehadi papa's woke druggie son to qualify for liberandu sympathies.
chetak
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Tanaji wrote:Firstly, I fully accept that the state of Indian polity is such that there is no other party that has a somewhat nationalist and Hindu interests than BJP.

However, the trust that people put in BJP is crossing rational limits and going into Trump supporters territory. The current government has no clue how to handle the people at Singhu border. The initial plan was to talk them into submission … that failed. GoI made concessions after concessions without a single counter concession. All that happened was it was a stalemate and made GoI look good in the eyes of log kya kahenge types, if that.

Next followed the policy of ignoring them. This policy has been an abject failure. Grave provocations such as the republic day incident happened without any consequences for the protestors. All this has resulted in was that the protestors realised that this is an effete government, fuelled by their own beliefs of the cowardly Hindu and martial Sikh prowess and would dare not lay a hand them.

Then another approach was tried by hiding behind the Supreme Court’s pallu. That failed as not only did it not resolve anything but also set the precedent of a SC indefinitely staying a legally valid and properly passed law in the Paliament.

This emboldened them to go further with rapes, beating up of policemen and journalists. Then it escalated to stopping army convoy.

Finally it has come to chopping off Hindus in complete Khalistani style. Yet there is no response from the GoI.

No doubt we will have people saying trust BJP. This is exact same behaviour of Trumpers who claim Trump loss is a part of a master plan where he will come back and arrest Hillary and others when he comes back to power next time around.

The BJP government has done much good, but it has failed spectacularly in this aspect. What is interesting is that this is classic communist strategy, that has been used many times before, and yet GoI has no answer.

The ground support for BJp will disappear soon if this persists. One can’t blame if people say the Congress handled the Khalistanis better than this lot…

Ok, the last statement was trolling…
The parliament can simply declare the laws to be in force, notwithstanding.

A lengthy stay is not in order.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

sanjaykumar wrote:Deafening silence from Sikh human rights champions to be noted.
Read youtube comments, the "singhs and kaurs" are busy defending the barbaric lynching saying it is justified because of "kufara" . After today I am no longer sure if the rampant missionary conversion in Punjab is a bad thing anymore.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by hanumadu »

What exactly was the act of blasphemy? This gruesome act has brought to notice the rot that has set in some of the Sikh groups, both to fellow Sikhs and other Indians.

Before comparing Narendra Modi to Indira Gandhi, we had terrorism back then. People were being gunned down with rifles. We are not there yet now. Let us see how the Sikh community reacts to this act. Give them a chance to take of the Nihangs themselves. There are calls already from the Sikh community to not allow the Nihangs to carry arms and stricter actions against them.

What percentage of Sikhs are Nihangs? Are they Jats too or do they include other castes?
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Tanaji »

hanumadu wrote:What exactly was the act of blasphemy? This gruesome act has brought to notice the rot that has set in some of the Sikh groups, both to fellow Sikhs and other Indians.

Before comparing Narendra Modi to Indira Gandhi, we had terrorism back then. People were being gunned down with rifles. We are not there yet now. Let us see how the Sikh community reacts to this act. Give them a chance to take of the Nihangs themselves. There are calls already from the Sikh community to not allow the Nihangs to carry arms and stricter actions against them.

What percentage of Sikhs are Nihangs? Are they Jats too or do they include other castes?
Ah, but that’s the beauty of it. The Khalistani elements have outsourced the barbarity and shock value to Nihangs one day, “unknown elements” the other day. You saw this in Republic day as well when the so called farmers unions said they were unaware who rioted and condemned them. Is the same thing now…. the Samyukta Kisan Morcha has said we don’t know why Nihangs are here and camping is. So basically get all the barbarity in and avoid all consequences.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by hanumadu »

Tanaji wrote:
hanumadu wrote:What exactly was the act of blasphemy? This gruesome act has brought to notice the rot that has set in some of the Sikh groups, both to fellow Sikhs and other Indians.

Before comparing Narendra Modi to Indira Gandhi, we had terrorism back then. People were being gunned down with rifles. We are not there yet now. Let us see how the Sikh community reacts to this act. Give them a chance to take of the Nihangs themselves. There are calls already from the Sikh community to not allow the Nihangs to carry arms and stricter actions against them.

What percentage of Sikhs are Nihangs? Are they Jats too or do they include other castes?
Ah, but that’s the beauty of it. The Khalistani elements have outsourced the barbarity and shock value to Nihangs one day, “unknown elements” the other day. You saw this in Republic day as well when the so called farmers unions said they were unaware who rioted and condemned them. Is the same thing now…. the Samyukta Kisan Morcha has said we don’t know why Nihangs are here and camping is. So basically get all the barbarity in and avoid all consequences.
Yes, they could be following the same trick as islamists. But in islam, there is not separate group like Nihangs to single out. Here Sikhs themselves have singled out fellow Sikhs with their own distinct code of conduct. Should be easier for the law enforcement to keep tabs on them. I am really hoping the Sikh community will realize how backward some of their sects are and put pressure on them to reform.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Pratyush »

I wonder what justification Mr Man Singh will have for the latest outrage.

This has gone on too long. Fact free activism has to have consequences.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by ManSingh »

Pratyush wrote:I wonder what justification Mr Man Singh will have for the latest outrage.

This has gone on too long. Fact free activism has to have consequences.
Do you get a high by picking on me? Otherwise, why are you imagining I will be providing a justification for this incident?

For my facts/opinions on the farm laws I have written enough on this forum. I don't see a reason why I should repeat myself when my posts are already available on this forum. I am not expecting you or anyone else to agree with what I wrote.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by ManSingh »

hanumadu wrote:
What percentage of Sikhs are Nihangs? Are they Jats too or do they include other castes?
Think of Nihangs as the warrior tribe if we could split sikh society into warrior, preacher, farmer and worker classes. Jats would be farmers. Albeit, Nihangs are more ceremonial in today's world as there are no battles to fight.

In this case, the person who was murdered in the violent act was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
Last edited by ManSingh on 15 Oct 2021 23:22, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Manish_P »

^ 'the person who died' ?? :roll:
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by hanumadu »

ManSingh wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
What percentage of Sikhs are Nihangs? Are they Jats too or do they include other castes?
Think of Nihangs as the warrior tribe if we could split sikh society into warrior, preacher, farmer and worker classes. Jats would be farmers. Albeit, Nihangs are more ceremonial in today's world as there are no battles to fight.

In this case, the person who died was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
How does one become a Nihang Sikh? Is it by birth or by choice? How can they kill someone who has been living with them even though the act, on the scale of acts of blasphemy, is probably 1 out of 10. It's nothing compared to Hindu idols being broken or having Durga pandal decorated with footwear.

There were other acts of violence of Nihang Sikhs in recent time. How does the larger Sikh community feel about it and are there any attempts by the Sikhs to reel them in? There are already calls by some Sikhs on social media to ban the practice of carrying arms by the Nihangs. I think this is a good idea and the Sikh community should enforce this.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by nachiket »

ManSingh wrote: In this case, the person who died was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
You mean the murder victim. It doesn't matter what he did or why. If Nihangs want to be vigilantes they should be treated as such. Arrested, disarmed and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. For now they have served up a fall-guy who has admitted to the murder. This is great because the police can say they caught the culprit and the rest of the degenerates who are shouting and celebrating in the video while the man is tortured can get off scott free.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by ManSingh »

Sorry about that. I edited my post. I type fast and don't spell check or review it.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by hanumadu »

ManSingh wrote:
Pratyush wrote:I wonder what justification Mr Man Singh will have for the latest outrage.

This has gone on too long. Fact free activism has to have consequences.
Do you get a high by picking on me? Otherwise, why are you imagining I will be providing a justification for this incident?

For my facts/opinions on the farm laws I have written enough on this forum. I don't see a reason why I should repeat myself when my posts are already available on this forum. I am not expecting you or anyone else to agree with what I wrote.
That's because you support the protests even though the farm laws are beneficial to farmers and the protests have been turning more and more violent. How long will you hold the country to ransom and fellow poor, dalit Sikh farmers to ransom for the greed of rich middlemen.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by hanumadu »

nachiket wrote:
ManSingh wrote: In this case, the person who died was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
You mean the murder victim. It doesn't matter what he did or why. If Nihangs want to be vigilantes they should be treated as such. Arrested, disarmed and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. For now they have served up a fall-guy who has admitted to the murder. This is great because the police can say they caught the culprit and the rest of the degenerates who are shouting and celebrating in the video while the man is tortured can get off scott free.
Yes, the whole lot in the video should be prosecuted and its a test for Sikhs to help in the prosecution and not defend them. If Nihangs are such defenders of faith, what are they doing while Sikhs are being converted to christianity?
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vmalik »

hanumadu wrote:
nachiket wrote: You mean the murder victim. It doesn't matter what he did or why. If Nihangs want to be vigilantes they should be treated as such. Arrested, disarmed and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. For now they have served up a fall-guy who has admitted to the murder. This is great because the police can say they caught the culprit and the rest of the degenerates who are shouting and celebrating in the video while the man is tortured can get off scott free.
Yes, the whole lot in the video should be prosecuted and its a test for Sikhs to help in the prosecution and not defend them. If Nihangs are such defenders of faith, what are they doing while Sikhs are being converted to christianity?
That would be tricky since it would affect their refugee claims in Kaneda and Inglaaand after Khalistanis get their behinds handed to them soon.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by prasan »

ManSingh wrote:
hanumadu wrote:


In this case, the person who was murdered in the violent act was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
So what he tried to run away . They could have got a new book. And do they have any proof. ?
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Prem Kumar »

Where are these so-called Nihang warriors in Pakistan/Afghanistan (or) in Punjab against the missionaries?
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

Prem Kumar wrote:Where are these so-called Nihang warriors in Pakistan/Afghanistan (or) in Punjab against the missionaries?
The fact is that Govt. in power and money should turn them strategically against Pakis/BIF/Missionaries/Khalistanis. Instead, they sit and whine while the Italian Gandhis, Khali-stanis and Tikiats of the world openly support khalistanis and turn sikhs against their own Dalits helping missionaries.

Somewhere Govt. in power lost the plot.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Karan M »

Ambar wrote:Congress handled Khalistanis better than this lot because Indira for all her shortcomings had bigger cojones than any prime minister in independent India's history, past or present. I cannot think of one who would have dared doing what she did to liberate Bangladesh , take on the Khalistanis, Pakis, North Eastern terrorists, naxals all at once. Unfortunately after her death and her duffer son taking over with his gang of sycophants its been all downhill. If Modi loses 2024 then he can thank two people for it - Amit Shah's reluctance to take hard steps and Nirmala Tai's utter incompetence.
Have to agree that despite all her multiple warts, IG was something else. But I also remember that during her time Hindus were getting slaughtered left right and center in Punjab and her handling of internal security was shambolic. Even in 1971 she didn't really care much about the refugees and atrocities per se or go after the Pakis post war. Then there was the whole pray at Baburs tomb sort of thing.

What don't you like about Nirmala tai's policies?
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Karan M »

nachiket wrote:
ManSingh wrote: In this case, the person who died was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
You mean the murder victim. It doesn't matter what he did or why. If Nihangs want to be vigilantes they should be treated as such. Arrested, disarmed and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. For now they have served up a fall-guy who has admitted to the murder. This is great because the police can say they caught the culprit and the rest of the degenerates who are shouting and celebrating in the video while the man is tortured can get off scott free.
Precisely and succinctly put.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Karan M »

Prem Kumar wrote:Where are these so-called Nihang warriors in Pakistan/Afghanistan (or) in Punjab against the missionaries?
A brutal answer on social media had a one word reply. Circumcised.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by disha »

In this case, this is the most pathetic justification I have seen.
ManSingh wrote: In this case, the person who was murdered in the violent act was living with the Nihangs and tried to run away with Guru Granth Sahib. I have no idea why, though one can imagine cannabis played a part.
During operation blue thunder the terrorists holed up in Gurudwara Shahib used the sacred urns for potty purposes. That was not blasphemy. However, running out with Guru Granth Shahib is.

Edited: Karma lines
Last edited by disha on 16 Oct 2021 22:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by disha »

vijayk wrote:Somewhere Govt. in power lost the plot.
Actually somewhere you might be losing the plot.

The plot is very simple, break the back of the 'BIF'. Or rather break the back of the CONgoons and assorted khalistanis ably supported by Canada and US. Or break the back of the bhaiwood and their assorted political gadflys sitting in power in Mah. Or break the back of the commies ably supported internally by the Chindu-journos aided by eleven and externally by low-key war on the NE by the cheencan jairnails. Or break the back of the cashmere windbags who want a total war in cashmere ably aided by their counterparts in former-UK.

In the process, if one has to continue with the protest-protest in Singur or Shaheen bagh, that is a small price to pay. You see when USD 2.7 billion of heroin is seized in Kandla port, nashedi khans get qaidi number, the cheen can jernails get brown pants, be prepared for a hit back.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

Karan M wrote:
Ambar wrote:Congress handled Khalistanis better than this lot because Indira for all her shortcomings had bigger cojones than any prime minister in independent India's history, past or present. I cannot think of one who would have dared doing what she did to liberate Bangladesh , take on the Khalistanis, Pakis, North Eastern terrorists, naxals all at once. Unfortunately after her death and her duffer son taking over with his gang of sycophants its been all downhill. If Modi loses 2024 then he can thank two people for it - Amit Shah's reluctance to take hard steps and Nirmala Tai's utter incompetence.
Have to agree that despite all her multiple warts, IG was something else. But I also remember that during her time Hindus were getting slaughtered left right and center in Punjab and her handling of internal security was shambolic. Even in 1971 she didn't really care much about the refugees and atrocities per se or go after the Pakis post war. Then there was the whole pray at Baburs tomb sort of thing.

What don't you like about Nirmala tai's policies?
India was in a turmoil those days and utterly, extremely poor. So in such circumstances to undertake a military campaign such as the Bangladesh liberation war was demonstration of absolute resolve and leadership. I don't think she was indifferent to the plight of the refugees, there's a video of her with a BBC journalist and you can see that she is visibly shaking with anger while talking about rapes and murders. This is also when RAW and IB were unleashed on the increasingly violent separatist movements in the NE resulting in many peace agreements during the Rajiv Gandhi govt. Towards the end of her life she was advised poorly by her sycophants and her reckless sons. Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a barely literate peasant who was made into a important leader of sikhs by Zail Singh, Darbara Singh, Kamalnath etc. although terribly planned it must have taken nerves of forged steel to storm the golden temple during such tumultuous times.

As for Nirmala Tai, I repeat that the general Indian populace does not think like we do on BRF. India maybe 15 times as wealthy as we were 50 yrs ago but the primary drivers while voting remains food, shelter, employment, welfarism. This is where UPA-2 lost , busy looting the nation with both hands they could not maintain the delicate balance of those attributes. Nirmala Tai is repeating the same mistakes minus the industrial sized scams and corruption. They are chasing welfarism but taking twice as back through inflation. They are chasing infrastructure not realizing that the multiplier effect of infrastructure spending takes decades to realize, and all the while funding it through higher and higher regressive taxation. The savings that manufacturers, businesses, transporters will realize through better roads are being swallowed by high diesel prices. Worldwide countries are hiking rates or atleast seriously talking about removing the pandemic support but not our FM, with a high food inflation (mainly driven by pulses and oil), bubbling stocks and real estate she is still happy to be on a "spending spree" (her exact words btw). Same with banking, the low documentation MSME loans will lead to predictable NPAs, speaking of which after years of saying there won't be a "bad bank" she ended up doing exactly that ! Such self-defeating decisions seem endemic in this government, look at the railways platform ticket, they increased it from Rs 5 to Rs 25 and from Rs 25 to Rs 50 saying they want to keep people "safe" during the pandemic. They've been running full trains for months now and the platform ticket prices are yet to be reversed, and we know it won't be reversed. Even staunch BJP karyakartas such as myself struggle to defend such decisions.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

disha wrote:
During operation blue thunder the terrorists holed up in Gurudwara Shahib used the sacred urns for potty purposes. That was not blasphemy. However, running out with Guru Granth Shahib is.

Man Singh'ji, there is something called Karma. I do pity you the way you are justifying the brutalities of your so-called sikh* terrorists, Karma will bite back. If you are lucky, you will know the reason.

* They are not sikh by any mile. They are pisachas who are dressed up in Sikh garb.
I don't know why my post was removed, I said nothing that can be termed as incendiary.

Dishaji, your post got me thinking about few incidents in Punjab in the recent months. When agro-terrorists rioting got violent enough in Punjab earlier this year , i saw Punjab police drag some of these rioters by their long hair, baton charge them mercilessly and throw them into the police van. A couple of months ago the same nihang sikhs attacked Punjab police with swords (this is not the same incident as last year when they chopped a ASI's hands). The police fired and killed two nihangs on the spot. In neighboring Pakistan and Bangladesh too we see their security forces routinely fire at rioters, in Bangladesh it has almost become the first resort where they ruthlessly go for the firing option when things go out of hand. The thing which tells me is be it in Punjab with significant sikh population or be it Pakiland or Bangladesh with 99% muslim population they have no qualms of using an iron glove without giving a damn about media or international opinion. Where as in the Hindu democracy of India steeped in nehruvian definition of secularism, we seem clueless how to deal with violent minorities, we seem paralyzed worrying if it will make them hate us more . I don't think we will ever come out of this rut as long as we remain a democracy. If with just 2.5% of the population the sikhs can paralyze our national capital and chop people up in front of cameras, its only a matter of time before christians with over 10% population unleash violence.
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Re: 2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by ManSingh »

disha wrote:In this case, this is the most pathetic justification I have seen.

Man Singh'ji, there is something called Karma. I do pity you the way you are justifying the brutalities of your so-called sikh* terrorists, Karma will bite back. If you are lucky, you will know the reason.

* They are not sikh by any mile. They are pisachas who are dressed up in Sikh garb.
Can you point where exactly I have justifed the brutality? Or Is it an automatic assumption?
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