Freeing Hindu temples from Govts - what is the goal , feasible extent and approach ?

[Lilo]

As we all know this is one of the testing issues before Hindus and has become a cause célèbre amongst some of so called "internet Hindus" who became especially vocal since Narendra Modi breached the walls of Sikular Dilli on behalf of Bharat in 2014.

So i would like some of the forumites who often dwell on this issue to contribute here their thoughts on this...

Freeing Hindu temples from Govts:
1)What is the goal ? i.e to what end?
Who will benefit and what does Hindus as a collective expect to gain by freeing temples completely into private hands?

2)Feasible extent
i.e Can all temples be freed to private hands or do some temples better be administered by govts strictly within the boundaries of Hindu sensitivities ?

3)What is the Approach ?
If they are being freed into specific private hands - whose hands specifically and in what manner ?

4)What are the problems Hindus will face if temples are freed to (any) private hands?


So as the first post i would suggest interested posters to go through below "Thathadesika Thathachariar vs K.V. Alagia Manavala Jeerswamy" dispute which started in 1792 after few generations of animosity was most recently taken to Madras Highcourt in 2014 . (more succinct details here >> https://myvoice.opindia.com/2020/03/vad ... y-part-ii/ )

The dispute mainly relates to the namam which the temple elephant should bear. The elephant died on 28-3-1965. According to the planitiffs, the trustees were making an attempt to get an elephant themselves and introduce it with Vadagalai namam. According to the plaintiffs, the established usage of the temple is that the elephant should have only a Thengalai namam. As the plaintiffs apprehended that the trustees would induct an elephant with a Vadagalai namam, they offered to present an elephant provided it bore the Thengalai namam. They also apprehended that the trustees, who belonged to the Vadagalai sect, might introduce an elephant with a Vadagalai namam and therefore sought to prevent it. The reliefs they sought in this suit were a direction to the defendants to accept the gift of an elephant to the suit temple by the plaintiffs or their nominees and have it painted with Thengalai namam on all occasions inside and outside the temple and in temple processions with Deities or when connected with the worship and other ceremonies of the temple as per the decree in A. S. No. 13 of 1854 and a permanent injunction restraining the defendants or their agents or servants from putting Vadagalai namam to the living elephant donated, maintained or possessed by the temple and using the same for any festivals, processions, functions or occasions of the temple.

https://indiankanoon.org/doc/1666870/

[sudarshan]

^ That is a very nice looking bell , thanks for doing that.**

For now, copying some posts which were made on another thread on this topic.****

** To the cat, I mean.

**** Which would make me a "copy cat" I guess.

[sudarshan]

There's a repeated argument about freeing up control of temples. I'd like to turn that question around:

How do you want temple management and control to be done ?

This has to be a straightforward, legally sound, simple and easily replicable approach that everyone finds easy to do. Can to describe how it would be ?

[sudarshan]

I think the simplest change would be a law that mandates any amount collected from the hundis would be used exclusively for upkeep of Hindu temples or any hospitals/schools run by them for the public and for no other purpose.

That should address the main pain point in my opinion.

[sudarshan]

Here's a great article on alternate temple management.

Hindu Temple Management : The Way Ahead

-Collectives in the form of committees or trusts can be formed from among the devotees or from the locality to govern a temple’s affairs, and from this an executive body can be elected.

-Such bodies would be re-elected periodically and from each of them, a few can be elected to a committee at the Panchayat level.

-In a similar way District level Committees can be formed. From these, the representatives can form a State level body.

-Such a three-tier arrangement should be insulated from political interference by legal mandate. It should be ensured that political workers cannot be permitted into, in any of these committees.

-The great temples or Mahakshetras can be under the direct control of the District level body. Through the state level body, the income from the temples should be divided among all temples in an equitable manner to ensure that all of them have sufficient funding to conduct their activities.

-Other activities, such as running education institutions, service centres, centres providing labour, schools of Dharma, Veda and Pooja, all should be done at the district and state levels in an established manner.

-If a Board for Santana Dharma studies is established at the state level, it can train teachers, conduct regular classes and periodic examinations and issue certificates.

I really like the above approach with some changes. The whole business of committees, trusts or elections at a "locality level" should be done away with. Instead there should be a national level committee, which holds absolute power, that does the state level appointments and so on. At the state level, the committees would advise a committee head who can also be held responsible and replaced if desired. Same structure at district and "locality" level. There's too much blame game and too little accountability in "committees and trusts".

Ofcourse, the above depends on the national committee being completely devoted to dharma.

[sudarshan]

There's a repeated argument about freeing up control of temples. I'd like to turn that question around:

How do you want temple management and control to be done ?

This has to be a straightforward, legally sound, simple and easily replicable approach that everyone finds easy to do. Can to describe how it would be ?

Let me take a shot at a very very rough off-the-top-of-the-head outline:

- focus on major shrines like Tirupati for now

- bicameral representative body (strengths TBD)

- lower house elected by an electorate consisting of all devotees who have made the pilgrimage or made & fulfilled a vow (mokku / vratam in Telugu) at home. ;could be extended with an application/ approval process TBD) Voting system could be proportional representation or first past the post.

- seats in lower house allotted on the basis of “sangat” or worship communities which may be physical or virtual.

- upper house consisting of TBD number of representatives elected by traditional, i.e., recognizable / recognized Hindu jati groupings using proportional representation and top-TBD number of Hindu sages and scholars in Agama sastras elected at-large by the lower house electorate using ranked choice

- lower house debates mundane matters and appoints CEO, COO, CFO, Chief Security Officer, Chief Service Officer, and other executive functionaries for the mundane realm

- Chief Security Officer commands a troop of Dwarapalakas (guards of the deity) and reports to CEO as well as Chief Sanctity Officer.

- upper house debates matters of theology, spirituality etc. as pertains to the deity. Appoints Chief Sanctity Officer who maintains the integrity and sacredness of the deity and His / Her realm.

-upper house also appoints the election commission for the next election cycle which takes place every 10 years.

-initial bootstrap process of the system TBD

[sudarshan]

Thanks for your inputs on this. My thought process runs like this - I think one of the impediments to the question of freeing temples is 'and then what ?' I don't want a USSR-redux at this level - an existing broken system falling apart only to be replaced by many small fiefdoms of anarchy. In my view, the strongest impetus for this will come from a simple approach that can be replicated successfully.

Some necessities:
* The administrative apparatus should be low on bureaucratic interest. It should not turn into a den of influence peddling and 'life chairman' nonsense like some regional sammelan/mandram/associations are. Those in charge should be in it because it gives them a living wage but primarily because of their devotion and not their hunger for power. The idea of a parliamentary apparatus / CxOs etc gives me a headache in this regard...
* A modern investment vehicle for temple wealth is needed, that enables generally hands off wealth management that can then enable the temple to fund charitable activities, education, health and other social care activities. This IMHO needs involvement of entities like LIC to establish long term annuity/trust investment vehicles that are run generally hands off by professional fund managers.
* Taxation must be exactly the same for all religions. Absolutely no compromise possible here.
* People should be able to easily associate with their local temple, or switch to a new one when they transfer. It builds communities, and establishes kinship groups locally. A new member is welcomed and invited to be part of prayer activities, to volunteer in charitable actions etc.
* Temples must be modern, clean, sanitary and inspiring. Yes they can be old, stepped in tradition, but they must be clean and modern in terms of amenities and 'quality of life' for worshippers. Hindus going to pray need to all come out of the temple feeling proud and happy with the state of their places of worship.

This is fundamentally a conglomerate structure with franchise level entities. It needs to be viewed as a sophisticated business, with the best business management practices at this level being used to run it.

[sudarshan]

I love the idea of an investment vehicle which i think a lot of people just never think about.

Still I think the question of 'and then what?' should never be an impediment in freeing temples. You can't continue to fund hajj yatras with temple donations just because there aren't any universally accepted detailed temple management plans available; just like you can't kidnap someone and hold them hostage until they give you their 10-year career and personal plans.

[sudarshan]

Thanks for your inputs on this. My thought process runs like this - ...

I have been thinking long about this, but hit a dead end regarding the misuse. So i am trying to keep it simple.
The temples can be organised as a trust with a group of temples or maybe on the basis of sects (like Vaishnavite, Shivite and Shakti grouping with a different one for Sai Baba Trusts).
1. The committee can be formed based on local rules, but would like some cooling off periods for members (sort of what Supreme Court did for BCCI).
2. The temples should be run by practicing Hindus only (though this would be difficult to verify).
3. The temples should be open for all castes, creed and gender in general with the exceptions of specific temple following traditions (like Ayappa Swami Temple in Sabarimala or the Amman temple near Swami temple which allows for only woman to enter).
4. The temples should focus only on spiritual and religious events to start off with. They shouldn't be running schools or colleges other than what they have currently. they should try to repair the temples that are dilapidated state and provide facilities for devotees to have a safe and contentful darshan and puja. The TTD (Tirumala Tirupati Devastanam takes care of the nearby temples in Tirupati through their Trusts).
5. The govt if at all has any involvement should be only through a liasion officer that has no oversight power or rule making ability. His/Her work will be to communicate what the temple devotees and the temple management needs ( putting a new road or transportation permissions for the temple to execute or expansion of sanitation and rest places for devotees).
6. Govt shouldn't take any money from the temples and the money should go to the temple trusts to manage their affairs. The temple trust funds should only be manged by the committee and not have any power to use it for their personal benefits.
7. once temples start flourishing, they can then expand to run schools, colleges or sponsor kids education and so on.

These are the things i can think after a little thought, but even here there are loopholes. How these are to be fixed I am still drawing a blank.

[sudarshan]

2. The temples should be run by practicing Hindus only (though this would be difficult to verify).

There is no need to verify that they are practicing Hindus in private life. They don't even have to be. What is really needed is - that these individuals should, in a public avowal, reject the notion of "salvation only through surrender to a personality" (regardless of who that personality is - i.e., endorse the notion of "multiplicity of ways to reach God"). An Abrahamic would not do this - if (s)he does, (s)he is as good as a Dharmic.

These individuals in position of power should also pass certain tests which look for their understanding of temple issues, sensitivity towards local temple issues (such as restrictions on entry), financial management, etc.

3. The temples should be open for all castes, creed and gender in general with the exceptions of specific temple following traditions (like Ayappa Swami Temple in Sabarimala or the Amman temple near Swami temple which allows for only woman to enter).
4. The temples should focus only on spiritual and religious events to start off with. They shouldn't be running schools or colleges other than what they have currently. they should try to repair the temples that are dilapidated state and provide facilities for devotees to have a safe and contentful darshan and puja. The TTD (Tirumala Tirupati Devastanam takes care of the nearby temples in Tirupati through their Trusts).

....

These are the things i can think after a little thought, but even here there are loopholes. How these are to be fixed I am still drawing a blank.

Any temple which enforces restrictions is free to do so, so long as it declares its rationale up-front, so long as the general Hindu community accepts this rationale (activists may please buzz off - don't know how to differentiate or enforce this though), and so long as it uniformly enforces these restrictions with no arbitrariness. So Sabarimalai would be "the deity is celibate, and has personally and humbly requested all women of child-bearing age not to jeopardize his private meditations." Good enough. So long as this rationale is not affected, other reasonable activities by "restricted groups" should not be prohibited. For example, Sabarimalai:

a. allows women to come to the temple and walk around freely, just not into the deity's private chambers
b. allows women to even enter the deity's private chambers, so long as they are not in the child-bearing age (i.e. - younger or older women)

However, restrictions based on caste should be a strict no-no (merely as a matter of practicality - India is better off without this millstone of "caste discrimination").

In addition, I'd still humbly submit, that it is a good idea to get devotees to greatly scale down donations, and compensate with life-long seva.

EDIT:

Reading back, I see that these lines could be misinterpreted:

"There is no need to verify that they are practicing Hindus in private life. They don't even have to be."

This is not to say that non-Hindus should be allowed to serve on these temple boards, it simply means - the burden of verifying that they really are Hindus, can be simplified to the extent that: they are nominally Hindus; they publicly avow the Hindu ethos; their private life does not impact the ethos which they are serving (i.e., no proselytizing on the sly on behalf of some other faith, no accepting iffy donations...). Just that there is no need to strictly verify that they perform puja every day at home, etc.

[sudarshan]

Really against any type of decentralized structure for temple management. Regarding DAOs, how would the original members be selected who can approve members in future through referral? Besides there are too many dhimmi hindus who have drunk the sikular cool-aid. How would such a system work in places like Kerala, WB etc where majority of hindus live in delusion?

Imo a great test for any alternate management would be imagining how they would deal with current situations like the one in Andhra etc Can individual temples acting on their own ever hope to push back against the billions of rolers or the friday mob of ropers?

We have to have a centralized structure which can concentrate resources on problem areas as and when required. Also only when you have a central authority can you ever hope to put in practice ideas like an investment vehicle or manipulate elections.

Here's what the LDS church did with "tithe" of just 16 million members under them.

LDS Church discloses the $37.8 billion stock portfolio of its biggest investment fund

The investment fund, called Ensign Peak Advisors, quietly submitted the filing Feb. 14 to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The stock portfolio appears to represent a large portion of the total value of Ensign Peak, which whistleblowing brothers Lars and David Nielsen said in a complaint sent to the IRS controls assets worth at least $100 billion.

Could individual temples acting in a decentralized structure achieve this?

[sudarshan]

Ideally each temple should be managed by a "(mostly local) committee of believers", respectful of the temple's traditions and histories (as contained in the relevant sthal puranas), and who also individually have a sensibility of the wider dharma and are connected nationwide as well as globally...

This would allow the best of all worlds:
1. Temple funds of that specific temple being in the hands of believers of that specific temple and being used for welfare of the adherents of that specific temple/ sampradaya... say 80%
2. Balance being used for utthhan of the wider dharmic community
3. Potent potential mobilization force to guard dharma on a nationwide scale a sand when necessary... which we know by painful experience is always required as the guards themselves raid the guard house (governments- both state and central)

Best such body would be for the RSS/ Dharma Sansad... that would also allow for us Dharmics not putting all our eggs in one basket (BJP) as well as ensuring a degree of sustainable independence.

But that is precisely also the reason why governments don't let go... any government... including BJP so far... personally my biggest disappointment along with education/ culture...

[sudarshan]

A few further thoughts on temples and their assets:

In the modern world, places of worship double as investment portals. Enormous wealth is built upon the inflows from the faithful. Even a small entity like the Mormons have a very powerful organization because of generations of tithed donations snowballing into tens of billions of dollars. The Roman Catholic church's gross assets (liquid investments, real estate, property) are likely in the multiple trillion dollars.

Hinduism is a 'kirana shop' religion in comparison. There are isolated pockets of great income (but not wealth) - Tirupati for example. These, and the religion in general, are a small poor fractured entity competing with Walmarts and Amazons. An entity like Tirupati or Guruvayoor or any major temple ought to have anywhere from $10-250 billion in accumulated wealth given the rate of contributions.

The pressure from outside religions is not because the Gulf has oil and the westerners are rich, but because both entities have accumulated inter-generational wealth, particularly the west. It's like how someone with 30-40 years of savings compares the annual contribution they make, to how much the total value of their wealth has grown to - the latter is multiple orders of magnitude larger.

Yes temples themselves are places of worship and devotion. Devotion is gained by service and charity to ones community. Hinduism needs multiple strong sects that have chains of temples, that in turn grow an enormous corpus of wealth that is professionally managed and gives them the ability to offer education and charity.

Modern Hinduism needs modern distributed administration and effective wealth management to remain safeguarded for generations to follow. Please think 'will this structure remain functional administratively 250 years from now ?' when you come up with some small administrative idea.

[darshan]

Swaminarayan sects operate very much like corporations and in similar manner to churches.

Sometime back I had posted about how Sahajanand Swami of Swaminarayan sect wanted any and all govt out of the temples. This was especially true being the british era. However soon after his demise, the sect followers still ended up dragging various govt entities into the temple business on a regular basis. It's all recent history and worth studying. This sect had brought in all sorts of flexibility and church like system to give church a stiff competition. Interested people can read to on Heber's account on it. From what I recall, there are many christian theologists still write and track Swaminarayan sects.

There may be various lessons learned from this set of sects to devise a long term plans.

[Lilo]

Thanks for kicking off the thread Sudarshan ji with yours and Suraj san's old posts amongst others.

Iam simple minded so if some one asks me
...getting a Hindutva govt in power and eventually keep retaining them as part of the permanent ruling dispensation is the bare minimum indication that majority Hindus in that State have become relatively united as Hindus and are not riven by caste ganduness as they were used to under past 65 yr continuous sikular govts.
If Hindus are able to unite and elect a Hindutva govt then they are fit to manage the temples by themselves as they are now aware enough to look beyond their caste interests and worry about the larger Hindu interests.Iam sure the temple resources will be put to excellent use for Hindutva causes by such Hindus.
But ironically once they reach such a stage it matters not who manages the temples in that state -
Because if you are Hindutva you look after Hinduism's longterm interests - be it the govt or a pvt individual who will think beyond his caste (even if the caste happens to be the priestly class) while administering the temple resources.

In new Bharat(just like in the ancient Bharat) the Sages, the Munis, the Rishis who have the capacity to think long and deep and fathom the path forward are the ones who are at the top of the pecking order - not the ones who have no claim but some hereditary claim on Hinduness or claimed decent from some Sage .

Hinduism should become a missionary religion able to accept and gharwapsi people from diverse and distinct backgrounds . It should be a dynamic religion bursting with activity and responsive to threats and opportunities.
If temple monies are to be used for such Hindutva activities , Hindutva minded people must helm them . Not status quoists who want to vest the temple back and relax back in their little fiefs.

Since there is no issue in temples under Hindutva govts either way...

The only question moot for me is
"How to free Hindu temples in places where Hindus are on a weak footing demographically" - ex in Kerala,Tamilnadu,Andhra etc. So only in these three states all our temple freeing energies must be concentrated and beach heads established against the still likely to be incumbent for a few decades sikular or DK ideology (i.e antiHindu govts).

Should Hindutva establish inside Babudom or Courts in these states ?
Should Hindutva use coercive means from center to make the local state govts loosen their grip on temples..?
How best can Hindus in these states get back and set up beachheads right inside their newly liberated temples in these states ...?
Should we start a mass movent in these states for temple liberation ?

Such are the questions in my mind...

[m_saini]

...
Because if you are Hindutva you look after Hinduism's longterm interests - be it the govt or a pvt individual ...

I don't think this is true. Hindutva govt need not necessarily look after Hinduism's long term interests especially if they think they'll get elected either way.

Consider this, there can be only 1 Hindutva party contesting at a time because more than one will just divide votes. Now if that party is reasonably sure to win all the hindu votes, they WILL try some shenanigans to lure ropers or rolers and do haj or batican subsidy etc using either the taxpayer money or worse still temple money. And all this already happens alongwith all the scholarships, loans etc

No political party can ever be, and neither should be, responsible for religious causes. It's a blessing that BJP somewhat does that job for now but ideally Hinduism's longterm interests should be looked after by Hindus and not govts.

[Kaivalya]

ISHA Sadhguru has made free TN temples a poll issue :

Here is more info on the current state ( more than forward looking solutions. Atleast support can be drummed up. AFAIK no political party has even acknowledged the issue let alone supporting it. This is the just the start

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/free-tamilnadu-temples

[Lilo]

ISHA Sadhguru has made free TN temples a poll issue :

Here is more info on the current state ( more than forward looking solutions. Atleast support can be drummed up. AFAIK no political party has even acknowledged the issue let alone supporting it. This is the just the start

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/free-tamilnadu-temples

No.

TN BJP being the sole Hindutva party operating in TN has already put liberation of temples into the hands of Hindutva scholars and Saints as a manifesto promise.

A separate board of Hindu scholars and saints to be handed over temple administration

https://www.hindustantimes.com/election ... 59161.html

[Lilo]

...
Because if you are Hindutva you look after Hinduism's longterm interests - be it the govt or a pvt individual ...

I don't think this is true. Hindutva govt need not necessarily look after Hinduism's long term interests especially if they think they'll get elected either way.

Consider this, there can be only 1 Hindutva party contesting at a time because more than one will just divide votes. Now if that party is reasonably sure to win all the hindu votes, they WILL try some shenanigans to lure ropers or rolers and do haj or batican subsidy etc using either the taxpayer money or worse still temple money. And all this already happens alongwith all the scholarships, loans etc

No political party can ever be, and neither should be, responsible for religious causes. It's a blessing that BJP somewhat does that job for now but ideally Hinduism's longterm interests should be looked after by Hindus and not govts.

I dont understand this - Hindutva polity is made up of RSS karyakartas or Sanghies etc who faught street battles in decades of sickular wilderness against cut throat sickular forces for 100 years and finally won political power for Hindus for the first time....
And yet they are some how less Hindu and less traditional unworthy of even able to manage Temple resources on behalf of Hindus they were elected to represent ?

May be we should give them few decades of benefit of doubt - after all congie sikularism was given the benfit of doubt for 65 years ?

I dont accept this characterisation that Hindutva leaders are some how inferior to Hindutva peoples they originate out of - after all BJP doenst have its leaders air dropped from Italy does it ?

[srikandan]

I know it seems like getting temples out of government control is never going to happen, but maybe it will, and if all the donated to temples by devotees was used to benefit the interests of the community, then maybe that is a good start,if temples are freed.

But let us say it happens, how do we ensure that temples are managed in a way that engenders trust between the devotees and the people who control the finances of the temples, and the people who make things happen on the ground in administering the temples, and the devotees who fund the system?

Because it seems to me that Nehruvian politics is all about making hindus distrust each other, and any old dirty trick is okay to achieve it, and most of these dirty tricks being played by neo-colonial types that infest Indian government and politics, so that suggests that the lack of trust between hindu groups is a blocker to achieving the level of unity required, and there will be groups actively working to destroy any such unity.

Just my two paisa on this topic because the weakness of such a system (IMO etc) is the lack of trust between different hindu groups, and this can be used to play politics to remove the trust from any system. What is missing is oversight to detect where temple administrations are not playing by the rules. People drop the "blockchain" word in situations where it is not applicable, but transparent temple administration may be made easier with this tech.

Consider this: what if there was a legitimate way to validate every single transaction done in the name of temples that can be independently verified by anyone who cares? If temples had their own distributed accounting books based on technology that makes it impossible to scam the system, then as long as three activities:

(1) the financial management of the temples (people controlling the bank accounts), and writing the checks.

(2) people running the temples from devotee monies

(3) verifiers: people who validate that financial transactions for a given temple are all legitimate and giving back to the community.

are three different groups that are prohibited from colluding with each other. All the money sent into the system by devotees can be traced back to the paisa to every single temple, and anyone can similarly audit that this money is disbursed from the temple funds is legitimate down to the last paisa.

The important thing to create trust is that the people in the third group could be any number of interested parties with a skin in the game, as there will be in things involving money, and can independently verify the books associated with any temple, as all the data is public.

In such a system, individuals who try to play politics with false allegations, or criminals trying to scam the system will both be detected if there is constant scrutiny, and any claims made can be veifiably proven to be true or false.

It may well be possible to scam such a system, but as long as "the system" provides the means to detect the fraud post-facto, it could lead to improving collective social trust over time. India is already digitized and Aadhar enabled, so in theory, an aadhar-enabled, distributed-book-keeping tech akin to that is used in bitcoin, can engender transparency. JMTP.

[m_saini]

I dont understand this - Hindutva polity is made up of RSS karyakartas or Sanghies etc who faught street battles in decades of sickular wilderness against cut throat sickular forces for 100 years and finally won political power for Hindus for the first time....
And yet they are some how less Hindu and less traditional unworthy of even able to manage Temple resources on behalf of Hindus they were elected to represent ?

May be we should give them few decades of benefit of doubt - after all congie sikularism was given the benfit of doubt for 65 years ?

I dont accept this characterisation that Hindutva leaders are some how inferior to Hindutva peoples they originate out of - after all BJP doenst have its leaders air dropped from Italy does it ?

Saar never have I said that the karyakartas are any less hindu than anyone. Who am i to question anyone's hinduness? But the way I see RSS is, is that they tilt equally towards nationalist and religious causes rather than purely religious ones. You can also see those nationalist leanings when Hedgewarji decided to leave INC and form RSS.

So my thinking was that the control of temples should fall to a purely Hindu org that doesn't have any nationalist distractions such as mobilizing for elections etc. Hindutva leaders should have no role in temple management because their main job is to retain political power and not because they're any less Hindu than you or I. You want a "Vatican" to control temples and not a "Nippon Kaigi".

[Kaivalya]

ISHA Sadhguru has made free TN temples a poll issue :

Here is more info on the current state ( more than forward looking solutions. Atleast support can be drummed up. AFAIK no political party has even acknowledged the issue let alone supporting it. This is the just the start

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/free-tamilnadu-temples

No.

TN BJP being the sole Hindutva party operating in TN has already put liberation of temples into the hands of Hindutva scholars and Saints as a manifesto promise.

A separate board of Hindu scholars and saints to be handed over temple administration

https://www.hindustantimes.com/election ... 59161.html

Thank you. I did miss it in the manifesto. But I believe H Raja has been floating this idea of a single structure that will take over a lot of the temples without any detail so far for a few years.

For more refer:

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/bjps-t ... ood-enough

[Manish_Sharma]

@Aparbharat:

My #Thread on Free Temple Movement.

There is a big argument on Twitter that why should government hav temples in their control, Swαmy went to court against several state govs to free temples

I will explain u all why does Swαmy wants to free temples & why Modi thinks differently

Let us understand, this matter in lil detail. Its estimated that Temples in India could have potentially around 3k to 4k tonnes of Gold

Thats huge amount of Gold, but who owns it, its the individual temple. Apart from Gold our temples hav precious jewels & antique worth billions

One of the Gold mine is Padmanabhaswamy Temple in Kerala, which has precious stones & Gold worth 1 Trillion dollar, there has been regularly thefts going on at various temples. Even this temple in Tranvancore has experienced theft which was informed to Supreme Court.

Now its important to understand why this matter went to Supreme Court. Kerala gov said, once princely state is merged, its assets become state's property hence Kerala gov should be able to encash by selling gold & jewels. Devotees said that's a sin, we are not suppose to touch it

Now Supreme Court's verdict is out, that temple's assets should be protected at any cost, rejected claim of ownership of Kerala gov. They formed a temple committee which consists of public servants & private members to ensure a fair & strict audit of temple assets to avoid theft
Here is a Youth Congress leader caught stealing antique Jain idols to generate funds for the elections. Smuggling temple artifacts is a big business.

Now lets look at precious Pink Diamond from Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanam which went missing. A temple priest accused then government in Andhra of smuggling this precious diamond out of India.

Now this precious diamond was auctioned at London but the Pink Diamond failed to attract a buyer, probably the price was too high or the others got aware of the smuggling, it is believed now the jewel has returned to Tirupati.

Now Indian jewels have high demand in the international market, here are some precious Mughal jewels going on auction, now Mughals also stole these precious jewels from Hindu kingdoms and our temples, so much of our assets are already being taken away from us.

Here you can see UK has returned valuable antique idols of Ram, Sita & Lakshman. I am sure most of you don't even know if any such idols ever existed, thousands of idols are already being sold in International market.

I think most of you know that Swαmy had accused Sonia Gandhi of smuggling antiques from India and her sister selling those antiques in Italy and Europe. This petition was filed in 2002, now don't ask me wat happened further
#MandavliMama


Lets hear from the man himself wat he has to say about antique smuggling and the charges on Sonia Gandhi.

There is complete documentary on Blood Buddhas which talks about antiquity smuggling business which is destroying our legacy of temples, are deities are sold in International market

This documentary is based on the submission of two saints Shri. Swαmy & Shri. Tharoor

Here is the trailor of Blood Buddhas where Swαmy himself has said that smuggling antiques from India is million dollar business. See the video you will realise how deep rooted is the problem.

Now cmng to the Uttrakhand, Kedarnath-Badrinath committee which was formed in 2019. This Committee has 30 members just like SC's verdict in Padmanabhaswamy Temple's case with public private participation, headed by CM himself, committe also includes biggest donar Ambani family.

Governments utmost priority is to protect the thefts of the temple assets and preserve our culture & heritage. In order to preserve, govt should know about all the assets of the temple and this can only be known through a strict audit where all stake holders are aware of assets Giving all ancient temples to private members is like giving a free hand to smugglers to move the assets in and out at free will. Audit is the only way to keep a record of all the assets in temple's possession. Plus we don't know to whom we are handing over the temple.

Now most of u will ask me, what happens whn BJP is not ruling & Congress comes to power. Will Congress sell assets of temple? Answer is No, coz once the temple assets are under audit then assets become subjudiced, plus its public private participation to ensure smooth functioning Entire argument of the free Temple movement is farce and malicious. Its related to a billions of dollar illegal business. Our temple assets should be protected at any cost. Swαmy has a reputation of playing a role of the broker, he is doing the same under the name of Hindutva.

Earlier I spoke about Thorium scam related to Ram Setu & here I explained you about Blood Buddhas & Pink diamonds. This solves our riddle, why Swαmy turned Hindu in 2007, coz he has larger interest which can only be fulfilled under the mask of Hindutva's emotional quotient.

Now I explained my perspective to this topic. Now I leave the decision to you, whether you stand with Modi ji and trust his actions or you still think Swαmy is right in filing a petition against the government.

Choice is yours, let me know your views via comments

https://twitter.com/AparBharat/status/1 ... 09792?s=19
https://t.co/ZqMDUGj14u

[Kaivalya]

Giving all ancient temples to private members is like giving a free hand to smugglers to move the assets in and out at free will.

If this the crux of the problem , what is stopping us from doing triple blind audit with volunteers picked from different regions.

It is clear that temples are getting looted. To be honest, Govt or private guys does not change confidence level. Also these comments are focusing on notable pink diamond etc. But we have to consider intangibles like land records, lease records, current contributions etc. It is a long arduous path that needs to start yesterday. Maybe we start with land records for tier 1 temples instead of trying to find a silver bullet

Also conflating this issue as a trust issue between Su Swamy or Modi or anyone else seems misplaced

[Lilo]

More Than Free - Why Traditional Custodians Must Involve All Of Hindu Society In Making Temples Great
by Rangesh Sridhar and Amar Govindarajan

There has been significant momentum on the issue of freeing Hindu temples from state control. There have been instances of temple land sales being opposed, fund transfers from temples objected to and court challenges to new laws that allow more temples to be taken over by state government run bodies.

All of these are good developments in the sense that it sends out a strong signal that temple administration cannot be taken for granted anymore, and that there are alert activists looking for evidence to punish wanton wastage of temple resources.

However, there is yet to be a meaningful dialogue on what happens once the temples are free. It may be argued that what will happen to temples can be debated once the temples are free and that the current challenge is to first stop state control.

But that is not true. Without viable structures that can take over temple management and run them in a transparent and efficient manner, and convince the Hindu populace of its inclusiveness, there will always be a degree of support for government involvement in temples.

To be able to remove the state the temple activists must show an efficient alternative that will benefit not just the limited circle of a small community of traditional custodians but the wider Hindu community in the district that the temple is situated in

At stake here is not just the rights of traditional custodians of temples but also the future of millions of Hindus. If temple resources were indeed made available, millions of scholarships and new institutions can be opened up to Hindu students of all castes thereby deterring conversions through Christian educational institutions.

Through preferential treatment to Hindus, temples can provide social security nets (jobs) to millions of Hindus thereby making them stakeholders in a more prosperous temple ecosystem.

Hindu temples could be running massive hospitals - once again drawing millions of devotees and simultaneously acting for their benefit.

But in order for the temples to be able to do all this they must be empowered and organised in a manner that involves all sections of Hindu society. Here are some ways to ensure temples are more than traditional places of worship under control of one community.

First, the stated mandate of the organisation must be the propagation of Hindu faith - of their own respective sect, the economic well being of Hindus and challenging those that threaten Dharma.

Second, the leadership of such organisations or bodies that run temples must be elected by Hindus of the district. This is not to say that the traditional custodians should not have any say. They will continue their old roles in religious affairs - as would every community connected with the temple.

However, every Hindu in a district must be made a stakeholder in the temple. The point is not to show off egalitarian views but to ensure that leadership of temples is contested for, opening up space for discussion about how best to use temple resources and producing Hindu leaders who have the interests of the Hindus and temples at heart.
Such an exercise will also unleash entrepreneurial ideas - an ambitious temple leader could aim to build the world’s greatest university or hospital in his temple town. A good campaigner may be able to draw donations, promote religious tourism and so on.

Third, the second tier leadership must represent each major caste that is present in the district. While every community has had traditional rights in temple rituals these roles have over centuries have become just that - symbolic placeholders without deep community attachment to the temples.

A quasi-political temple body that is empowered to run the temple's secular affairs allows all castes to have a say and demand resources for its own benefits.

Fourth, co-opt the government to build at-least part of infrastructure that is required for efficient temple operations.

There is no sense in temples spending their own money in building all the infrastructure needed - it is the role of the government to do it. During the Covid-19 pandemic the US Catholic church and affiliated bodies coolly pocketed billions of dollars of money from the government. The political nature of temple leadership allows for a degree of influence to be exerted on the local and state governments.

Of course there are many caveats to the above four arguments. Temples could be organised in clusters spanning many districts, there could be differentiated voting rights, old caste conflicts will definitely need to be addressed, and thousands of ‘devotees’ sitting on temple lands would be loath to let go of their easy income.

It may even be the case that in states like Tamil Nadu conventional politicians professing anti-Hindu views are able to capture temple bodies. But regular elections specific to temple control allow Hindus to more effectively campaign, highlight mismanagement and challenge anti-Hindu politics. This allows space for Hindu mobilisation.

There is a desperate need for temples to be more than free. We need our temples and its resources to take on a quasi-political role and help bring in a Hindu renaissance, and for that to happen people more than the old custodians need to have a say.

[Neilz]

It has advantage and disadvantage.

Free up temple if single focused to benefit Hindu interests, can flex its muscle and stop all attack against Hindus , especially the conversion factory and targeted activism.

But, there is a huge potential that it may as well turn up in turf war and try to become like todays exclusivity of ISCON, Buddhism or Sikhism, and will try to get into identity creation of "Not Hindu" and end up distancing if not hating Hindu/s.

In 70 years, we have systematically destroyed the binding culture and norm which used to come under one umbrella and respect for tradition at heart.

Stealing artifacts or usurping prime lands can be counter by audits and mandating by law that temple properties are non transferable. But there is nothing to control perverse minds. On the other hand if we make temple quasi free, by stating that by Law gov can not control Temple, then they will still remain as paper tiger , a far cry to take the conversion factory/hate Hindu head on.

To me we need to free temple, but before that we need to arrive / derive a consortium to be that proverbial umbrella with clarity of Goals. A council of sorts with all Shankaracharya + Mathadhakshya + Current temple head priests etc.

The primary goals to me must be:

1. Build narrative, and punitive to perversion.
2. Build brand, University, courses to propagate the real Sanatan discourse and have control over it.
3. Reach out and protect the Hindus and its interests globally.
4. Create atrocity literature to highlight the plight of Hindu victim and historical records of all such incidents.
5. Fight the conversion factory, on ground and on ideology on PR front.
6. Revive / resurrect all the temples, in remotest of corner of India and abroad even if in tatters / ruined.
7. Control political and administrative space in India and abroad so that it does not fall back.
8. Never ever fall for narratives of secular / appeasement / grandiose.

[vmalik]

Reason to not free the temples is simply electoral from the BJP/Hindu POV (We know the adharmic are there to simply feed on the corpse so they are good with draining the temple wealth). If Bharat wasnt a democracy, people incharge would free them and deal with the momentary upheal. But democracy means shortsightedness.

Sangh ties itself in knots along similar lines, trying to surf the waves of popular opinions or taking everyone along BS and have wasted decades trying to cast a wide net instead of creating an intellectual foundation for the moment they have control of the power levers i.e. now . Right thing to do should be right irrespective of how many people you got in your corner. Imagine, this current moment, when Sangh is in power, passes and the ecosystem is left intact...

[KLNMurthy]

Can someone knowledgeable provide some information & insight into how the Golden Temple is managed? IIRC, it’s through the SGPC—Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee.

Are the members elected? Appointed? What is the role of the Punjab government?

What are the pluses and minuses of the way the Golden Temple is run? Historically? At the present time? How did the 1984 takeover by Khalistanis happen?

I am trying to understand if there are any lessons there for Hindu self-management of temples like Tirupati.

[KLNMurthy]

Another data point could be the administration and management of Puttaparthi or Shiridi, which I believe are already run privately.

Is there any instance of a major religious shrine, of any religion, passing from government hands into private hands?

[Sachin]

I can give some insights on how the Hindu temples are governed in Kerala. And add some positives & pitfalls of the same. Other knowledgeable people can correct if I am wrong as well.

Pre-Independence (& till state formation).
In the kingdoms of Travancore & Kochi temples were managed by kings themselves or by the rich land lord families. They had the wealth & power to ensure that traditions, cultural aspects and sanctity was maintained. In the Malabar District (North Kerala), which was part of Madras Presidency the temples were not as grand as the ones in the king doms, but maintained & managed by local Hindu landlords.

Positives: The highest authorities in the place controlled the temples, and they were Hindu devotees. Secularism was always kept at an arm's length. Money was not a problem.
Pitfalls: Casteism was rampant and certain temples were NOT open for certain castes. It took popular democratic movements to change these kind of 'traditions'. A few prominent Hindu castes, but lower in pecking order also started the practise of starting their own temples.

Post-Independence
Travancore & Cochin Devaswom Board
As part of the covenant with the Travancore & Cochin kings the state government took over the management of the Hindu temples. The catch phrase is 'management' & NOT 'absolute ownership'. The Devaswom minister is always a Hindu (a born 'Hindu but now secular/atheist' kind of person is acceptable). The 'Devaswom Board' which are the executive authority are chosen by the government of the day. As per the covenant a certain amount has to be paid for the temple management, and temples also can become revenue generating sources (Sabari Mala is a prime example).

It is also a practise that some ceremonies which were usually done by the 'king's army' now has to be done by the K.P. On certain festival days, state police men have to march along with the deity or in many places do a 'present arms' when the deity leaves the temple premises.

Positives: With caste playing a spoil sport, it is the Devaswom Board which ensures that the temples do not become caste specific. It has nominees from all castes which are essentially vote banks of the day. They are also able to manage the day to day functions. There is also a supervision by a High Court bench (Hindu judges only), and administrative decisions of the Devaswom Board can be annulled by the 'Devaswom Bench'.

Pitfalls: 'Cultureless' people (I use that word specifically) can get appointed to these boards due to political clout and can sabotage the whole system from within. They can also work out schemes with connivance of state government to take away the money coming in via donations. Sabari Mala temple (as an example) was a cash cow for every state department like K.P, K.S.E.B and Ke.S.R.T.C. They 'offer their services' to the temple administration during festive season and then charge a very 'hefty fee' in return. Another decision was to 'donate' a huge amount of temple funds for the 'flood relief fund', when the Devaswom Acts clearly say the funds can only be used for temple improvement and spread of religion. The biggest pitfall is that none of the Devaswom Boards launch any schemes/facilities which makes Hindus understand their religion better. Money gets spent on elephants, fireworks & decorations stuff.

Malabar Devaswom Board
This is the poor cousin of the other two and the most recent entry. Their focus is to manage temple affairs in the North Central & Northern districts of Kerala. By the time this board was formed many of the temples had already become abandoned as the once rich families who maintained them found it unviable. Communist party presence is also very significant here. Here the rule is that certain rich temples are to give a fixed share of the donations they get to the Devaswom Board which would use that to maintain smaller temples. The rich temples insist that they will only give the fixed share, even when they know that there are other smaller poorer temples which need their help.

Temple specific Devaswom Boards
These too are under government control, but generally only manages big temples. Has all the positives & negatives of the other Devaswom Boards. Problem of 'secularism' can also be felt here.

Caste focused temples with Independent Devaswom Boards
These temples are OPEN for all devotees, but the catch lies in who manages the temple and how they are elected. These temples were generally 'community based temples' before Independence, with the management done by people elected from certain communities. That election system still exists and it is very tough to get voting rights for an outside community person.

Positives: They manage their funds better. They also are not restrained by any one from starting schools or having programs which makes Hindus understand their religion better. Generally the elected body of such temples are not 'seculars or atheists'. As the voter population is limited such candidates would get thrown out quickly.

Pitfalls: These temples in a way encourage casteism. At times there is also the urge for one up man ship, where focus gets shifted again on aspects like elephants, fireworks & decorations stuff.

[SandeepA]

An umbrella management on the lines of the Wakf Board or SGPC with adequate provision for the various sampradaayas (complicated given the diversity within Hinduism) can be achieved and made to work. I will root for a single organization to unite all temples as this can be a centripital force unifying Hindus while also respecting their diversity.

[Kaivalya]

Posting T R Ramesh for background discussion on issues involved in Temple Management Framework:




I am happy to translate if you find something in tamizh and hard to follow

[Manish_Sharma]

https://twitter.com/OurTemples/status/1 ... 1aRBQ&s=19

@OurTemples :

44000+ temple can be freed TODAY. All we need is 3 trustees per temple. 1.2 lakh Hindus must dedicate their life for the sake of our Sampradhaya. If they aren't ready what's the point in saying "free the temples". Law allows us to administer our temples. Will we come forward?

[Yagnasri]

https://myind.net/Home/viewArticle/a-mo ... maj-part-1

https://myind.net/Home/viewArticle/a-mo ... maj-part-2

[Yagnasri]

Our views on Temple management.

[Cyrano]

We have focused a lot on the economic aspects of temples, on the social aspects and not a lot on the dharmic aspects of temples, which gives me a reason to offer my few rupees of "dakshina" to the topic.

Temples are not just places of worship but they are engines that keep the wheels of Sanatana Dharma turning. They keep sampradayas alive, and let them co-exist, keeping the very concept of plurality alive.

Each temple is dedicated to a main deity who is often accompanied by other deities. The deities come from our traditions from time immemorial and represent IMO personified noble traits and qualities. The Puranas serve as illustrations of how those qualities manifest in the world, and how they play(ed) out in the eternal collisions of good and evil. Thats why most temples have key scenes from puranic stories carved in stone, lest we forget why they occurred, between what kind if forces and the resolution which invariably re-establishes Dharma. Every temple functions as per a specific set of daily, lunar monthly, seasonal and annual rituals and practices, as per codified "aagama shashtras" derived from "shrutis". In the south, there are shaiva and vaishnava agamas and some variations. I suppose most temples in the north follow the same or similar systems depending now how they weathered the onslaught of invasions. Aagama shastras cover may other aspects including design and architecture of the temple, its surroundings etc etc...

There is one example of "vadahala" and "tengala" disaccord on a superficial matter. Let it not distract you. There are lakhs of temples that function harmoniously.

The idea that temple traditions are determined by luddite traditionalists therefore the state/some overarching authority needs to step in is a bogey. Don't fall for it.

There is also a "tantric" aspect to many temples, but having never ventured on that side, I cant comment on it. I'll simply say that whenever you see unusual and restrictive practices in a temple, there is a tantric aspect associated with it, and the "jatis" that frequent the temple seek those tantric benefits, while others who stay away mostly do so voluntarily since they have no interest or use for that stuff. Some of that knowledge and context was surely lost in colonial eras. No temple is ever built or managed to enforce unfair, exploitative or wantonly discriminatory ie A-dharmic practices. I tend to believe the "caste discriminatory" practices that have existed in recent times were either a reaction to prevailing effects of foreign invasions to protect the temple and all that depends on it, or based on the need to preserve them from pandemics, famines etc. If they got assimilated into "tradition" but are irrelevant today, most temples will be amenable to correction and a more open functioning simply by re-aligning with their original sampradayas.

Freeing temples to "end caste discrimination" is a bogey that tries to paint temples as evil dens. Don't fall for it.

The ONE AND ONLY raison d'être for a temple is to represent, embody, manifest and perpetuate a certain dharmic tradition or sampradaya (itself a branch of the huge eternal tree "kalpa vruksha" of sanatana dharma) among its community, be it small, big or world wide. Everything else, its assets, governance, expansion, economic and social impact MUST BE subordinate to and serve this raison d'être.

Sanatana Dharma is by nature and intent loosely coupled which is why it survived and helped its people and Bharata Varsha thrive for millennia. Therefore our temples (and of course Mathas, ashrams...) are also loosely coupled ideologically by intent and managed by specific local patronages and structures by design. Even if contemporary world is very different from what it was two or three hundred years ago, there is no need to tightly integrate temples into normative (=rigid) structures that centralise power - we will be replacing government mis-management and loot by its private equivalent. A tightly integrated structure is more vulnerable to attack than an organically dispersed structure. Our history is proof of it. In the grand scheme of things, its not a big deal if a few temples are mis-managed as it will inevitably happen. They will fall out of devotees favour and crumble into insignificance. Such organic renewal is also Dharma.

Govt control of temples has led to endemic mis-management because a "secular state" knows and cares nothing about sampradayas and is accountable to itself. Thats why church and state were separated in Europe but not in colonised India. We still follow the same model due to a lot of reasons we all know.

Freeing temples will lead to "massive mis-management and corruption" is another bogey that tries to paint temples as evil dens. Don't fall for it.

However, we are in the times in which we are, and recognising a temple as a "legal person" by the state gives a temple certain rights like autonomy and non-interference and certain obligations - basic rules of asset transparency, activity disclosure and corresponding financial accounting, since it can seek protection and redressal from the state. IMO, nothing more is needed.

Earlier such obligations were fulfilled by those who managed a temple's affaires towards the patron King/Thakur/principal benefactor of that temple, who offered it funds, protection and redressal.

Today, we need the state for protection and redressal, but the state is not and should not be a "patron" ie no state funding, and therefore must have no say in HOW a temple is being run, as long as it fulfils basic obligations listed above and is open to audit. And in exchange, a reasonable tax can be paid by the temple for the state's "services" like all "persons". Thats all we need.

The state and well meaning do-gooders need to lay off going beyond this intentionally narrow and very specific mandate wrt to temples. Temples will do just fine and radiate their dharmic brilliance and spread their benevolence naturally if they are left alone. Our Temples and Dharmic societal principles were designed for it.

Hope this helps set aside colonial lenses and borrowed models while reflecting on how to restore temples to their rightful place and enable them to fulfil their intended but varied roles in the communities they serve.

[Cyrano]

Another important aspect of temple affairs concerns those who perform the daily and periodic rituals in temples, who mostly belong to the Brahmin community. Called archakas or pujaris they perform rituals only for deities, usually distinct from Purohits or Pandas who conduct specific ceremonies for people - or karmas which can be auspicious or mournful. Purohits who perform auspicious karmas do not perform the mournful. They never perform temple rituals. Given the importance many hindus attach to these karmas, purohits usually manage to make a decent living. Yet other Brahmins or Pandits who have studied vedas and other ancient and sacred texts, have learnt parts/some/all of them by heart perform yagnas, and these days they make a reasonable living too. Brahmins who are part of mathas or ashrams are essentially leaning towards ascetic lives, some do not marry. They earn very modestly, and then there are yogis or sanyasis who at least in theory have renounced material wealth and its trappings. Of course anyone can become a yogi or a sanyasi, and people of all varnas respect them and try to follow their teachings.

There are a few temples in south India that have non-brahmin priests - usually in temples that have grama-devas and devis as deities. Their rituals involve offerings of liquor and meat in some cases. I suspect they dont make big earnings either. Perhaps similar traditions exist elsewhere.

For archakas or pujaris, their earnings depend on the fortunes of the temple, and where endowments departments manage temples, they are salaried workers, and earn low wages. I've heard the offerings in "hundis" go to the temple ie govt's pockets, where as the money put in "harati plates" go to the archakas. I dont know if this is universally true. But in general most archakas struggle to earn a decent living, I've seen that.

What do Brahmin priests do?
Life in archaka families involves very strict adhesion to a set of cleanliness and hygiene rules (called maDi and aacharam in Telugu), strict dietary rules that go beyond just being vegetarian. For example, onions, garlic even tomatoes are forbidden, only sattvic food, made fresh for every meal is eaten. They do not eat any food items that cannot be offered as "prasadam" to the deity. A typical day starts very early, around 4 AM, in some places even earlier. Cold water bath, puja at home (sandhya vandanam and other prayers), and then opening of temple, cleaning the sanctu, bathing rituals for dieties, dressing the dieties and decorating them according to day, moonphase, festivals etc and opening the temple for darshan, all that happens usually on or before 6AM. They get a short mid-morning break, lunch break of 2-3 hours, then again ritual cleaning of sanctum, dressing and decorating the deity for evening pujas. Temples typically close at 9PM after evening/"good-night" service. The life for the entire family of archakas follows the restrictions and schedule. Festival and special days are a lot more demanding, devotees expect magnificently resplendent deities when they come for darshan, dont they?

Its not a "privileged" cushy life of self-aggrandisement and demeaning others like some activists claim. Its a life of a high degree of restraint and abnegation even when no one is watching, it brings a degree of respect in the society, and at the same time, a certain amount of ridicule and vilification in movies and media.

Then why do they do it?
I believe irrespective of earnings being good or bad, many brahmins who are purohits or archakas are continuing a family tradition coming down from several generations. They usually start as young teenage apprentices in a temple and slowly move up to more important priestly roles when senior archakas vacate a slot due to old age, ill health or when they pass away. Some get a lucky break when a new temple is built.

Do we need them at all?
Depends on what you expect from a hindu religious place. If you dont need all the ritualistic pomp and practice around a deity, then you can go to a maTh which is very simple. If you need none of it, you can go to an ashram. If you are enlightened, you are fine wherever you are and whatever you do. If you need the ritualistic ambience around a deity and therefore you go to a temple, then you need archakas.

Can anyone do it? Why not?
In theory yes, but to be able to serve a deity day and night, following strict personal and familial rules all your life and seeing it as a higher purpose is essential. If you are following all that and can learn the relevant texts, chants and rituals - and you and your family adopt the required lifestyle - you have become de facto a brahmin ! Belonging to a lineage of priests makes the entire strictness of the lifestyle and the effort and sacrifices an unquestioning, holy, divine endeavour. You get formatted in a specific way and your mind is set in that path from a very young age, in every interaction with your parents, siblings, relatives. Brahminism by birth is still proves tough for many as they grow up and many give up for easier, better paying jobs. If someone from a different background wants to adopt this lifestyle its not just an individual choice, its something his wife, family and close relatives need adopt too. The task is so daunting that hardly anyone else tries. Especially those anti-brahmin privilege activists !

Brahmin lifestyle, even if one is not a temple priest or a purohit, is a very sattvic, non-violent, non-confrontational, learning, teaching and knowledge oriented way of life. It has its place and utility in the society. Is it superior or inferior is an irrelevant question.

Temple reforms question is entwined with the Brahmin community, there is no point denying or side-stepping it. But what needs reform is Govt's control on temples. Not the priests who conduct rituals in them. If anything, they need decent salaries and pensions. Like in every other facet of the society, be it doctors or drivers, pilots or painters, there will be a few bad individuals among Brahmins as well. In which case they should be treated no different.

There is at the same time, no need to discriminate against them for some imaginary privilege or historic wrong deeds. Restoring temples to their rightful place must include, and will be fully realised when Brahmins are recognised for what they contribute to the society as daily practitioners of certain important aspects of sanatana Dharma and when we all discard the brahmin = oppressor narrative peddled by those who want to destroy it.

[ramana]

https://twitter.com/ramana_brf/status/1 ... TEZFw&s=19
"
If Masjid is a private property, then why have govt salaries to Maulvi's ?
Temple is govt property then why not govt salaries to Pujaris?
Nation needs to know.?"

It got 22000 impressions. Lots of interest in the subject

[arijitkm]

Don't know posted it earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TBme-1k8yg

[Cyrano]

What we need is a popular widespread satyagraha until all temples are freed.

Arguing about how will the freed temples be managed is like arguing how to name the the child before getting pregnant.

The focus must be on rescuing our temples first. Hindus must come out of inherited colonial brainwashing and start trusting themselves, and be confident that Hindu society which puts Dharma on a pedestal will be dharmic enough to manage their temples as per dharmic principles.