Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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NRao
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by NRao »

Some insights:

https://twitter.com/slakster/status/1443619651171360770 ----->
Jaishankar at @USISPForum : if he were to highlight a single message from last week’s meetings in DC , it’s that there’s a “ very good fit” between india and US.

"I think the beauty of Quad is precisely because ... it is not rigid."

On China: Quad is not against something but for things (as reflected in the statement). Important not to be "railroaded" into some negative script...

Jaishankar in Quad related discussion : How to deal with China is a bilateral choice

Jaishankar on Quad: "It's sort of essential to normalise this conversation, this should not end up as though it's some kind of ganging up and a negatively driven event."
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by bharathp »

Deans wrote:Neither US nor Aus - even with any number of allies, are preventing Chinese Salami slicing in the South China sea, or will have the ball$ to recognise Taiwan. In this century, it is only India that has physically stopped the Chinese and taken and inflicted casualties.
that was because of necessity/compulsion.
if Cheen salami sliced US or AUS, they would know.
its a shame that cheen thinks they can salami slice us. that speaks volumes of our own strength projection (due to years of commie infused congi rule).

US/Aus are projecting strength away from their shores into SCS - need to respect and learn from that
we have been reluctant to project force despite wanting 3 A/Cs and all the shiny toys.

i think the realization has dawned that an MIC is absolutely required. but still lots of hiccups there.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Deans »

bharathp wrote:
Deans wrote:Neither US nor Aus - even with any number of allies, are preventing Chinese Salami slicing in the South China sea, or will have the ball$ to recognise Taiwan. In this century, it is only India that has physically stopped the Chinese and taken and inflicted casualties.
that was because of necessity/compulsion.
if Cheen salami sliced US or AUS, they would know.
its a shame that cheen thinks they can salami slice us. that speaks volumes of our own strength projection (due to years of commie infused congi rule).

US/Aus are projecting strength away from their shores into SCS - need to respect and learn from that
we have been reluctant to project force despite wanting 3 A/Cs and all the shiny toys.
While it is correct that China has not Salami sliced territory belonging to US/ Aus, they have encroached into territory of countries that depend on the US for security. US (and by extension, its ally Aus) has not intervened. They are Salami slicing all countries (or buying them off) that share a border and not singling out India because we are weak - though I share the view of many here, that we could have done much more by way of deterrence.

Aus has not projected strength away from its borders, despite a large navy and not facing any threat.
IN has hardly ever had more than 1 Aircraft carrier available to sail. Unlike US & Aus, we have a hostile neighbor and our carrier's first priority is
to defend our home waters.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

bharathp wrote: its a shame that cheen thinks they can salami slice us. that speaks volumes of our own strength projection (due to years of commie infused congi rule).

US/Aus are projecting strength away from their shores into SCS - need to respect and learn from that.
This is a crucial point. India is reticent and reluctant to play a strong role even in it's own backyard...AFPAK + POK. Frankly, what is needed for this is not some huge MIC, India has had enough mil superiority for such a purpose. What has lacked is the ability to project the image that we are ready to take a few punches in an offensive war.

Problem with the defensive mindset is that we take a few punches anyway.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by bharathp »

Cain Marko wrote: This is a crucial point. India is reticent and reluctant to play a strong role even in it's own backyard...AFPAK + POK. Frankly, what is needed for this is not some huge MIC, India has had enough mil superiority for such a purpose. What has lacked is the ability to project the image that we are ready to take a few punches in an offensive war.

Problem with the defensive mindset is that we take a few punches anyway.
while this is true, the lack of ability to take some punches is due to the stink in the politics and media.
we had to celebrate the surgical and airstrikes - had to defend it
imagine getting a hard hit on force projection..

so the first step is cong mukt bharath
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

Cain Marko wrote:
bharathp wrote: its a shame that cheen thinks they can salami slice us. that speaks volumes of our own strength projection (due to years of commie infused congi rule).

US/Aus are projecting strength away from their shores into SCS - need to respect and learn from that.
This is a crucial point. India is reticent and reluctant to play a strong role even in it's own backyard...AFPAK + POK. Frankly, what is needed for this is not some huge MIC, India has had enough mil superiority for such a purpose. What has lacked is the ability to project the image that we are ready to take a few punches in an offensive war.

Problem with the defensive mindset is that we take a few punches anyway.
It is not the defensive mindset but the offshore BIF manufactured reaction of the minorities that are staying many of India's legitimate reactions and forward policies.

India's casualties in cashmere would have led to public protests elsewhere but the IA still soldiers on. No one doubts India's ability to take punches or dish it out but this is the GoI's way of not importing the strife into the heartland and let it fester in a slow boil internal dissent and near civil war like scenario, affecting nation building and stunting growth and creating a paki like economic chaos that is sinking their diseased country.

unlike the pakis, India has demonstrated to the world that it can determinedly walk and chew gum at the same time. we have tackled the pakis and the cheeni and also continued our economic growth

Ask xi, he will certify that India has moved very rapidly from being a modest, reticent supplicate as was the policy during the congi-commie years to a determined aggressor, more than willing to climb the escalation ladder by committing matching resources to take on the pampered cheeni army

the shia and sunni nations, because of huge cash transfers, ostensibly for mosque building, and "scholarships" in their countries, have acquired the power to sway large numbers of our population and that is why there is violence and agitation for "atrocities" in palestine, or some silly unconnected event in turkey or whatever

this is jehad, plain and simple and yet it has been going on unrestrained since independence and no one has clamped down on it officially by making clear the policies of India to these ummah nations

this has become a standardized SOP in India, institutionalized by the congis and the commies, after the success (because of the foolish support of our own "apostle of peace") of the khilafat movement. Our relations with the shia and sunni stronghold countries were, till very recently, tempered by the imagined reaction of either iran or saudi. iran does rather blatantly makes use of the local shias to try and influence the GoI but the saudis are far more subtle

our relations, even today, with the gelf countries are relatively circumspect because of the vast numbers of Indian workers dependent on their goodwill to remain gainfully employed in their workforce and their welfare and safety susceptible to the magnanimity and mood of the local rulers

India hasn't fired a single shot ever in palestine, not counting our troops who fought there during the british times of course, and yet we are constantly forced to support and aid these jehadi punks that even the arab states shun and keep at bay and our heart is firmly with the israelis

this is because of the puncture walla policies that we follow and that is what our puncture wallahs have become accustomed to and demand from the govt

what is happening on India's borders is not defensive. It is reactive, specific to a threat that is pressed upon us in this deliberate low intensity warfare, carefully calibrated by the pakis not to cross the line where India stops reaction and chooses offence like in balakot for example.

we have a dullard MEA staff and other babooze, all of whom are transactive in the extreme, who all have their eyes on cushy post retirement sinecures in the US, well paid in some non entity of a thinktank, and spouting peace and compromise nonsense in some backwaters academic fora, literally singing for their supper.

The alternate is the very lucrative and paying aman ki tamasha led track thoo circuit where these traitors get to enjoy ghazals and qawalli in mehfils set around the attractions of sharab, kharab, kabab, and adab with paki, cheeni, turki, and other BIF paymasters including the FFNGOs.

so your characterization of India as being reluctant take a few punches in an offensive war is extremely uncharitable and untenable.

We have never been warmongers but the fact that we are accomplished warriors is not lost on the paki or the cheeni or others around the world. The pakis derisively called us banias and yet lost four wars and half their country to the very same "bania" Indian Armed forces. A similar realization would have belatedly dawned on xi and his PLA

AFPAK is definitely not our backyard...but, POK will certainly be one day.

we have no dog in the afghan fight. we were looking for CAR access via the chabahar iran afghan route but that has been back burnered for now

POK has put the paki claimed and cheeni's CPEC access via POK on the international stage as Indian territory. India has cleverly refused to take part in the CPEC because the cheeni have transgressed Indian territory. Our claim cannot be negated unless we choose to give it up or negotiate
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by V_Raman »

I would replace cleverly with correctly in the above paragraph - india has correctly refused…. Being correct is not being clever as participation would be cowardly.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

V_Raman wrote:I would replace cleverly with correctly in the above paragraph - india has correctly refused…. Being correct is not being clever as participation would be cowardly.
V_Raman ji

I meant cleverly because the onus of our refusal has been shifted on to the hans.

POK is like a bone stuck in the han throat, they cannot pressurize the pakis to "transfer" it to them as they did with aksai chin nor can they unilaterally "swallow" it without global condemnation.

If either happens, the paki's illegal but the paki army's raison d'etre claim to cashmere is forever lost because even the aam abdool will revolt at the ceding of the even stolen from India ummah lands to another kafir, yellow, as he may well be
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Vips »

chetak wrote:
POK is like a bone stuck in the han throat, they cannot pressurize the pakis to "transfer" it to them as they did with aksai chin nor can they unilaterally "swallow" it without global condemnation.

If either happens, the paki's illegal but the paki army's raison d'etre claim to cashmere is forever lost because even the aam abdool will revolt at the ceding of the even stolen from India ummah lands to another kafir, yellow, as he may well be
Chetakji, you should know how the Porki mindset works. Their hatred of India is such that if they are manipulated into thinking that Cashmere is better off with the chinese otherwise it will go to India or be occupied by India then they will readily acquiesce to it.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by kit »

Cain Marko wrote:
bharathp wrote: its a shame that cheen thinks they can salami slice us. that speaks volumes of our own strength projection (due to years of commie infused congi rule).

US/Aus are projecting strength away from their shores into SCS - need to respect and learn from that.
This is a crucial point. India is reticent and reluctant to play a strong role even in it's own backyard...AFPAK + POK. Frankly, what is needed for this is not some huge MIC, India has had enough mil superiority for such a purpose. What has lacked is the ability to project the image that we are ready to take a few punches in an offensive war.

Problem with the defensive mindset is that we take a few punches anyway.
To win you dont need direct conflict all the time. There are many ways to win a war !
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Deans »

For critics who say we don't project strength:
Taiwan has had a massive airspace violation by the PLAAF on 2 consecutive days. 35+ aircraft each day incl. SU-30's and nuclear capable bombers.
Neither Taiwan or the US could respond. Japan and Australia haven't condemned it.
I'm fairly sure any airspace violation into our border would result in our attempting to shoot down the aircraft. If China felt sure of getting away with it they would have done it.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Yeah, I agree. China cannot dare violate our airspace without disastrous consequences.

But, with Taiwan or Japan, what PLAAF is doing is *NOT* violate their airspace. This is especially true with Taiwan where they are violating their ADIZ which is not the same as Taiwan's territorial air space. They are doing this with increasing frequency, bigger package and incrementally closer to Taiwan's air space with every outing to test their defences, reaction etc. But, these are reckless and dangerous maneuvers which Chinese have been doing for a long time. The Hainan incident of c. 2001 against the USAF is one such example. The dangerous maneuvers of the PLAN against many other navies in the Indo-China Sea (ICS) are another example.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Karan M »

The Chinese do this as they can manage to put the entire Taiwanese military apparatus on standby using up critical airframe hours and spares usage. The Chinese can replenish easily as they spend more than us on defence and a lot of the gear they're using for these deliberate show of force missions is indigenous. Taiwan will be forced to import spares for its F16 and Mirage fleet. And each time they activate their systems, the PRC learns more to develop countermeasures.

It's a huge lesson for our armed forces if they look at it. Govt too, to accelerate funding for Kaveri replacement and other programs. And if we had the right drive, we would task our heavy industry to leverage the Arihant and Scorpene experience to work with Taiwan to build up their submarine capabilities. Taiwan badly wants that.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Roop »

Deans wrote:Neither Taiwan or the US could respond. ... I'm fairly sure any airspace violation into our border would result in our attempting to shoot down the aircraft.
I'm sure you're right, if that (i.e. airspace violation) were to happen. However, I strongly suspect that what happened here was not a genuine violation of airspace but just a show of force in Taiwan's ADIZ. The press, generally, are very sloppy and/or sensationalistic in their use of language. They have done this hundreds of times before with all countries -- "US violates PRC's airspace" (when all they did was fly through China's ADIZ without permission, "USN violates India's territorial waters" (when all they did was sail through our EEZ).
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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SSridhar wrote:
DavidD wrote:It was Taiwan's ADIZ, which is pretty huge and actually extends hundreds of miles into mainland proper. Also, China has only one type of dedicated bomber, the H6, an ancient platform, so specifying that China sent "nuclear capable bombers" is just sensationalizing.
It is in Chinese, but, the Legend shows that tracks of various aircraft. They are into the south western ADIZ of Taiwan. Pratas is your aim, isn't it?

Mainland China should not complain about an imaginary ADIZ overlapping a small part of its land when it claims the whole of the South China Sea (Indo-China Sea is the aptest description) on its own imagination.

Now, I understand it was H-6K that penetrated the Taiwanese ADIZ, wasn't it? It might be derived from an 'ancient Tu-16 platform', but H-6K is quite new and is nuclear attack capable, isn't it?
I'm not complaining about the ADIZ, just pointing out how far going into the ADIZ is from invading Taiwan's air space. I think most H6's are nuclear capable, it was kind of the point of the H6 from pretty much the start.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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China has passed a law that makes every transport ship to be under PLAN. This is a serious threat and QUAD must be utilizing this opportunity to declare those ships will now be treated as military vessels. Banning them outright may not be possible, a work around will be they need permission before approaching any other country and every week a list is put out of those ships that are not allowed to visit or travel in any areas of countries EEZ. Sitting doing nothing will only embolden them to occupy Taiwan easily and set their targets further away even completely cutting the travel through SCS.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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NRao
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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KL Dubey
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by KL Dubey »

These guys are clueless idiots. A very chhota-mota country with delusions of big-league membership.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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kit
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by kit »

Of course, neither the United States nor Australia nor the United Kingdom is bound to intervene in a Taiwan Strait conflict. :(( Nor is AUKUS a new trilateral alliance—the three states will remain free to pursue independent responses to Chinese aggression against Taiwan. But AUKUS is arguably an alliance-in-being. There is a reason the partners will develop a new submarine for Australia “with a focus on interoperability, commonality, and mutual stability,” as the joint statement put it. They want to be able to fight together, hoping that ability will help ensure they never have to.[ one also needs to wonder if Taiwan would still be independent by the time the first sub makes its splash :roll: ]
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

AUKUS seems like a clever ploy by unkil to create a Diego Garcia in the Pacific, only a lot bigger and comes with money and compliant men. UK is just some lubricant for the new rubber that unkil will wear as he rams up Xitler's a$$.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by DavidD »

uddu wrote:
China has passed a law that makes every transport ship to be under PLAN. This is a serious threat and QUAD must be utilizing this opportunity to declare those ships will now be treated as military vessels. Banning them outright may not be possible, a work around will be they need permission before approaching any other country and every week a list is put out of those ships that are not allowed to visit or travel in any areas of countries EEZ. Sitting doing nothing will only embolden them to occupy Taiwan easily and set their targets further away even completely cutting the travel through SCS.
STUFT has been around for probably as long as there has been warships. I'm sure every country with a significant navy has such plans. The British last used them in the Falklands war in '82.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Many non-QUAD posts have been moved to the appropriate China thread.

Let's retain this thread only for QUAD & AUKUS. Thanks.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Analysis: Japan's ruling party makes unprecedented defence spending pledge
An unprecedented election pledge by Japan's ruling party to double defence spending underscores the nation's haste to acquire missiles, stealth fighters, drones and other weapons to deter China's military in the disputed East China Sea.

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) included a goal of spending 2% of GDP - about $100 billion - or more on the military for the first time in its policy platform ahead of a national election this month.

.....
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/13/in ... e-program/
India’s Space Program Inches Closer to America and the Quad
In another strategic shift, Modi has opened space activities to private companies and new allies.
C. Raja Mohan, October 13, 2021

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi wants to privatize one of his country’s most zealously guarded governmental monopolies: the space sector. In a major speech at the inauguration of the Indian Space Association, a new industry grouping this week, Modi called for a new approach, where, he said, the private sector is free to innovate and the government becomes an enabler.
The announcement was a significant step in Modi’s efforts to pull private resources into India’s space sector, which has rapidly fallen behind global peers as space competition heats up in telecommunications, resource exploration, planetary expeditions, and defense. What’s more, Modi’s reorientation of India’s space policy is yet another indication of the profound shift in New Delhi’s geostrategic orientation.
Modi’s government has been exploring common ground on space security issues bilaterally with the United States and also plans to work with India’s partners in the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue—Australia, Japan, and the United States—to leverage their collective space capabilities. For now, these would include areas like monitoring climate change, managing disasters, and mapping precious natural resources from space. For the first time, New Delhi is also ready to work with Washington and its allies on setting new global norms to manage space, including rules for commercial competition and the use of space for defense.
Although India was among the first nations in the developing world to build an impressive space program, it has not kept up with changing global trends. One is the dramatic expansion of space commerce since the start of the 21st century. The other is the private sector’s growing role in space activities. On both fronts, New Delhi has been unprepared. India now accounts for barely 2 percent of global space commerce, estimated to be worth around $440 billion today. The sector has been expanding at an explosive pace and is expected to reach more than $1 trillion in annual revenues by 2030, according to some estimates. New Delhi has set its sights on garnering at least 10 percent of this business by the end of this decade.
In the United States, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk’s company has broken the last of the government monopolies: the difficult business of launching manned rockets. Washington has been coddling SpaceX with lucrative contacts, hoping private companies’ growing role will help reinforce traditional U.S. primacy in space. The Chinese government, too, is finding ways to bring greater innovation to space projects by allowing more private activity and promoting competition between different space-sector entities. India seemed hesitant to go down the private sector route—at least, until now.India’s space program, like its nuclear energy program, began soon after the country’s independence and was driven by considerations of national prestige and economic and technological development imperatives. Since then, Indians have had to put up with much ridicule about their poor, under-resourced country shooting into space. But today, few can deny India’s space program’s considerable achievements, including in satellite construction and launching, telecommunications, and terrestrial observation from orbit for national development and defense.
......
Gautam
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

Slightly "older", as things are moving fast. But very interesting:
https://www.cnbc.com/quad-summit-and-ch ... -the-quad/
The 'Quad' is on the rise in Asia-Pacific:
Game theory has a prediction about its future
Ted Kemp, September 23, 2021

China remade itself into a giant economy, and more and more it enjoys the giant benefits that go with it: national confidence, diplomatic clout and military power. Other big powers are paying attention. As China has shown new swagger in its dealings with the world, four big democracies — Australia, India, Japan and the United States — have formed a counterbalance. The future of that "Quad" has tremendous significance, not just in the Indo-Pacific, but everywhere. Decision-makers, risk managers, investors, CEOs, and regular citizens increasingly are aware of rising stakes in a new, global balance of power. The leaders of the world's biggest economies want to know what's next for the Quad. A very complex computer algorithm may have delivered the answer.
On Friday, U.S. President Joe Biden will host Prime Ministers Narendra Modi of India, Scott Morrison of Australia and Yoshihide Suga of Japan at the White House for the first in-person Quad Summit. They'll focus on "deepening our ties and advancing practical cooperation" on Covid-19, the climate crisis, technology, cyberspace and "a free and open Indo-Pacific," according to a White House statement.
As with just about every statement from the Quad, it makes no mention of China. But worries about China are at the root of the Quad. Since Xi Jinping became China’s leader in 2012, each of the four democracies has had serious run-ins with China on trade or territorial claims or both.
The "quadrilateral security dialogue" among Australia, India, Japan and the United States was once an informal, ongoing discussion between senior officials about naval cooperation. It's morphing into top-level strategic cooperation on tech, the global economy, security and the pandemic.
China objects to the Quad as an attempt to derail its rise as a global power.
“ China is increasingly hemming itself in. Whatever objectives it might harbor for the Indo-Pacific, it's getting in its own way.
Ali Wyne, senior analyst for Global Macro at Eurasia Group "Forming closed and exclusive 'cliques' targeting other countries runs counter to the trend of the times and deviates from the expectation of regional countries," the country's foreign ministry said last week in response to the White House meeting. "It thus wins no support and is doomed to fail." But even as it expresses confidence that the Quad will fail, Beijing takes aggressive actions that push the Quad countries closer together, according to several policy experts who spoke to CNBC. "China is increasingly hemming itself in. Whatever objectives it might harbor for the Indo-Pacific, it's getting in its own way," said Ali Wyne, senior analyst for Global Macro at Eurasia Group.
To get a sense of what's next, CNBC in February came up with a question — What is the future of the Quad? — and ran it through an advanced game theory model. The effort generated specific predictions about the four Quad nations, China and other countries and territories with a stake in the Indo-Pacific.
Game theory is an obscure concept to most people. In short, it tries to apply science to strategy. Game theorists construct models of situations involving competition between groups or individuals. They then apply computing power to predict how individuals will interact in the model and what outcomes will be. The use of game theory in CNBC's Quad project comes as policymakers, investors and the risk-management industry are trying to get more quantitative rigor into their forecasts — in line with the rise of quantitative analysis across other sectors including trading and investing. Globally, algorithms are being relied upon to do more and more.
But game theory is not magic. It has limitations, which you can read more about here. Significantly, at least two of the policy analysts who helped build the model used for this report do not agree with some of the predictions it made.
But in the world of game theory, at least, the model implemented for this report is a well-regarded one. The methods developed by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, of New York University and the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, were used by the CIA on more than 1,200 projects in the 1980s.
According to a declassified CIA report published by Yale University Press in 1995, Bueno de Mesquita's former firm Policon had a 90% accuracy rate on predictions it made for the agency and generated greater detail than traditional analysis. Bueno de Mesquita claims a higher accuracy rate on projects undertaken for Fortune 500 clients since then.
.....
Gautam
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/p ... 2022-05-23
PM Modi on Tokyo visit for Quad summit lauds bilateral ties in Japanese oped
Prime Minister Narendra Modi has penned an op-ed in a major Japanese newspaper, highlighting the importance of India's relationship with Japan.
India Today Web Desk, Tokyo, May 23, 2022

In the midst of his visit to Tokyo, Prime Minister Narendra Modi wrote an op-ed for the Yomiuri Shimbun, one of the five major newspapers of Japan. The op-ed, which highlights India-Japan relationship, was published on Monday, May 23.
Taking to Twitter, PM Modi shared the article that was also published on the newspaper’s website: “Penned an op-ed on the vibrant relations between India and Japan. Ours is a partnership for peace, stability and prosperity. I trace the journey of our special friendship which completes 70 glorious years.”
In the article, PM Modi described India-Japan ties as “special, strategic, and global”. He said: “Cultural ties (between the two countries) go back centuries. A strong belief in sharing the values of democracy, freedom and rule-based international order, as well as the alignment of regional and global perspectives, underlies trust and the relationship between India and Japan as a genuine partner.”
.....
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https://www.news18.com/news/world/count ... 27255.html
Eye on China, US Launches Unconventional Trade Agreement Ahead of Quad Summit; India Among 12 Initial Partners
MAHA SIDDIQUI, MAY 23, 2022

It is not a “traditional trade deal”, but a “new model of economic arrangement that will set the terms and rules of the road for trade and technology and supply chains for the 21st century”. This is how US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan described the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework (IPEF).
The IPEF was launched in Tokyo on Monday in the presence of Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida. The launch was also attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi as India is among 12 initial partners of the IPEF.
The other nations are Australia, Brunei, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, New Zealand, The Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. Together, these 12 countries represent 40% of the world GDP.
Foreign Secretary Vinay Mohan Kwatra had said in a briefing last week that India’s participation was under discussion.
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Gautam
bala
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by bala »

There is an underlying ulterior motive behind the IPEF formation by the US. The US is afraid of a potential gang-up by Strong Players like Japan with India (and I might add China). India already has good relations with Russia. This is one way to box-in asian players and tie the knot to the US. Modi is laying stress on the Japan relationship with India. India is being pulled into alliances which on the surface seem to make sense but are part of the careful machinations by the US. We need to be extra careful in not being deluded by such formations. India has to make separate deals with other asian nations strictly on bilateral terms without worrying about IPEF. China is going to bully its way with each Asian nation irrespective of IPEF. I see this as an ever expanding influence of the MIC of US Deep State to sell more of its advanced ware based on the threat perception of China.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by hnair »

The Quad is dead, long live the Quad

Biden killed it when he listened to brits and formalized AUKUS. Unlike the Quad, that alliance is a true military alliance designed to take on Chinese naughtiness in the Pacific, so they don’t sail towards the western seaboard. Indian Ocean is of zero concern as of now other than customary disclaimers. Economic matters have zero resonance with Quad because US and even India (going by the bounced back trade numbers) are junkies addicted to cheap Chinese goods. So Quad is not going to even try an economic angle as a soft-option.

The Quad has been relegated to chai-biskoot sessions for leaders who want to have photos with each other to convince folks back home that they have grip on foreign policy. SAARC comes to mind
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by bala »

Recently senile ByeDone announced to the world that the US will intervene in Taiwan against China. Taiwan has quietly been making moves to appease the US, TMSC is putting a huge semiconductor plant in the US and maybe they have also set aside some funds to defend against a possible invasion from China. So all taken care of on the financial front.

AUKUS was really about Aussies and their tendency to kiss up to the Chinese. The US gets its fangs deeper into Aussies and the outpost of their military arm is secure with AUKUS nuclear submarines. The QUAD is a useless entity from day one. QUAD also announced some measures against piracy of fishing by chinese fisherman (kya useless endeavors and wild goose chase). The only advantage for India is getting Japan to cooperate in the military sphere. Aussies are a light weight and are of no use militarily. India already has a few joint exercises with the US and the two have working knowledge of each other to some extent.

We have to understand in the background their G2 cooperation between US and China on the economic front. If there were genuine differences between US and China, then Tibet would have been wrested from China long ago. The US really wants India and China to duke it out so that they become weaker. The rest is all hot air and time pass.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by rsingh »

bala wrote:There is an underlying ulterior motive behind the IPEF formation by the US. The US is afraid of a potential gang-up by Strong Players like Japan with India (and I might add China). India already has good relations with Russia. This is one way to box-in asian players and tie the knot to the US. Modi is laying stress on the Japan relationship with India. India is being pulled into alliances which on the surface seem to make sense but are part of the careful machinations by the US. We need to be extra careful in not being deluded by such formations. India has to make separate deals with other asian nations strictly on bilateral terms without worrying about IPEF. China is going to bully its way with each Asian nation irrespective of IPEF. I see this as an ever expanding influence of the MIC of US Deep State to sell more of its advanced ware based on the threat perception of China.
It will be activated if the west needs Indian help. Rest is maya.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

no mention of mother russia in the QUAD joint statement

Jaishankar must have scared the living crap out of them



https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... statement/
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

QUAD was just a Group. Not an alliance or a treaty.
It is not against China.
Its role is naval powers exercising in the oceans and thus links Indian and Pacific Oceans.

Hence US decided to create #AUKUS which is a military alliance but kept out New Zealand which is part of ANZUS.
#AUKUS Is a military alliance against China.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.financialexpress.com/opinio ... t/2536557/
India’s pivot to Indo-Pacific
IPEF needs to flesh out rules for economic and trading engagement.
Written by The Financial Express, May 25, 2022

At a time when trade is facing deglobalisation headwinds, India’s decision to be part of the US-led Indo-Pacific Economic Framework (IPEF) along with 11 other countries is to be welcomed. This bloc aims to strengthen economic partnership among the participating nations to enhance supply chain resilience, sustainability, inclusiveness, economic growth, fairness, and competitiveness in the region. The global power axis has shifted away from the Atlantic-Pacific to the Indo-Pacific, stretching from the Indian sub-continent to the western shores of North and South America. This region now powers the world economy through its prowess in manufacturing, trade and investments. However, this putative bloc represents only a broad framework as the rules for closer economic engagement through greater market access for each other’s goods and services are still to be worked out. However, the level of ambition for a free trade agreement (FTA) is likely to be equivalent to that of the 11-member Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) or the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), a grouping that comprises 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations together with China, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. This is only to be expected as eight members of the IPEF (Australia, Brunei, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Vietnam) are also part of the CPTPP and 11 are part of the 15-member RCEP that came into force in January.
From a geo-economic standpoint, India’s strategy for the Indo-Pacific is still evolving. What are its interests in the region? Is it only rivalry with China that seeks a growing presence in the Indian Ocean? There is, no doubt, a large element of this, as China’s rise as a global power has lengthened its shadow over South Asia, ASEAN, and East Asia. India has taken a consistent position of freedom of navigation in the South China Sea. Due to their quest for energy security, the Indo-China rivalry is the most intense at the Indian Ocean. This has also resulted in India prospecting for oil in Vietnam and Russia. The question is whether India’s interest also extends to engaging via trade and investments and sharing the prosperity of the booming Indo-Pacific region, a bitterly-contested arena where great power ambitions are colliding. India has sought closer relations with Japan which also has serious concerns regarding a rising China. Then there is South Korea. The US has now decided to focus on the region after earlier walking out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which is another word for the CPTPP. So, too, is India which decided to exit from the Sino-centric RCEP at the eleventh hour and is currently reviewing existing FTAs with ASEAN, Japan, and South Korea, among several others.
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Gautam
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by S_Madhukar »

Byedone gang might be trying to make us the munna by pulling us into various 4 letter organisations and showing us off as the potential punching bag…
should Xi decide to whack out they will “urge” India to “do more” like the Bakis, open another front and then if we don’t kill our chances of UN seat by blaming us while they all sleep comfortably polishing their F-35s for the nth time :cry:
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

India must tread cautiously with these goras.

The goras are all very keen to look after their own self interests but hypocritically frown whenever India does so.

Australia’s new government has urged China to lift trade sanctions if it wants to do a reset in the bilateral relationship.
sanctions include those on coal, wine, barley, beef and seafood



https://www.usnews.com/news/business/ar ... e-barriers
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by NRao »

chetak wrote:India must tread cautiously with these goras.

The goras are all very keen to look after their own self interests but hypocritically frown whenever India does so.
Already are: certified: April, 2022 :: NEWSJAISHANKAR CALLS OUT WEST’S HYPOCRISY ON AFGHAN, UKRAINE, ASIAN CHALLENGES

Aussies just added to the "Asian challenges" category.

Also, I did not see any mention of "Ukraine" in any of the official readout - unlike news streams. Could have missed it. However, the Russian performance in Ukraine has done India a lot of good (so far).

Finally, cannot see a reset (between the West (including Aussies and perhaps even Japan) and the new G-2 of Russia and China) of any sorts - with either Russia or China - for at least a decade.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

From teetar
Image
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/2 ... lance-plan
‘Anti-China’: The Quad launches maritime surveillance plan
Quad’s initiative is designed to enable Indo-Pacific nations to track illegal fishing and incursions by Chinese vessels in real time.
Zaheena Rasheed, 28 May 202228 May 2022

Pledging to provide “tangible benefits” for nations in the Indo-Pacific region, the leaders of the Quad have launched a maritime surveillance plan that analysts say is its most significant move so far to counter China.
The Quad – an informal alliance made up of Japan, the United States, India and Australia – says the Indo-Pacific Partnership for Maritime Domain Awareness (IPMDA) will help the Pacific Islands and countries in Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean track illegal fishing and other illicit activities in their waters in real-time. Although the Quad did not mention China by name, the initiative is aimed at addressing long-held complaints from countries in the region about unauthorised fishing by Chinese boats in their exclusive economic zones as well as encroachment by Chinese maritime militia vessels in the disputed waters of the South China Sea.
The Quad did not provide details of the initiative, but an unnamed US official told Britain’s Financial Times newspaper that the group plans to fund commercial satellite-tracking services to provide maritime intelligence to the Indo-Pacific nations free of charge.
By monitoring radio frequencies and radar signals, the initiative will also help countries track boats even when they try to avoid detection by turning off their transponders, known as Automatic Information Systems (AIS). This intelligence will then be shared across an existing network of regional surveillance centres based in India, Singapore, Vanuatu and the Solomon Islands.
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Gautam
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