Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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ramana
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Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

It's about time we followed the Quad news and discuss it. Will post a few articles here.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

Starting with Jeff Smith's article in Heritage Foundation.

https://www.heritage.org/global-politic ... l-the-quad
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Najunamar »

Very interesting points Rudradevji, but am not too sure XJP is the only overconfident person in CCP - in fact I am guessing most of CCP is already drunk on the koolaid that the West under sleepy Joe will not react immediately. This may be a bad gambit as you rightly posit that US has time and again demonstrated a high threshold of pain to suppress any emerging threats - if it does not happen with just covert means they will not hesitate to embark on another arms race/defence systems/confrontations in declining order of preference.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

Guys this is about the Quad not China..
While interesting please don't hijack the thread.

We have one thread for Xi Jinping and another for China.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Maria »

Rudradev wrote:Does China have any treaty alliances to balance against the Quad? I know Russia-China ties stop short of a mutual defence pact. Is even Pakistan or North Korea committed by treaty obligations to go to war if China claims foreign aggression against it?
Yes, the pact of CPecker aka Pact of Steal :mrgreen:

On a serious note, I don't think the Pakistanis would officially join any alliance against the Quad and for that matter neither would the Russians. Pakis still want US dollah and Russians, Indian defence equipment orders.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

Ok. RD stop posting nonrelated posts here.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... not-covid/
India’s place in Quad hinges on its ability to counter China, not Covid
Rohan Mukherjee, June 19, 2021

As India’s deadly second wave of the Covid-19 pandemic subsides, observers have begun taking stock of the aftermath. A recent article in The Financial Times suggested that the second wave has exposed India as the “weakest link” in the Quad grouping of the US, Japan, Australia, and India, whose collective goal is to counter Chinese influence in the Indo-Pacific.
Specifically, the article argued that India’s emergency export ban on vaccines has alienated neighbouring countries and undermined the Quad’s effort to compete with China’s vaccine diplomacy. Moreover, it said the critical flaws of India’s public health infrastructure have allegedly revealed to the world the limits of India’s capabilities as a rising power. The chief casualty overall is India’s reputation as a major global player — especially in pharmaceuticals and vaccine production — which now appears completely out of sync with reality.
These arguments suffer from a few problems. First, although India’s ban on vaccine exports undoubtedly upset countries scheduled to receive them, the resulting reputational damage is short-term in nature. India was exporting vaccines before its second wave and will resume exports once the domestic crisis is under control. Global opinion is neither fixed nor unforgiving, especially in a time when vaccine export bans are entirely unexceptional.
Even if China steps in to fill vaccine orders unmet by India, this does not automatically translate into significant losses for India or the Quad. Smaller countries in the Indo-Pacific are adept at navigating competition between major powers and many would happily accept Chinese vaccines today and support the Quad tomorrow, or vice versa. Geopolitical competition is a long-term game of multiple rounds, and the Quad’s hand is hardly out of cards yet.
Second, India’s state capacity is not uniformly distributed across functional domains. A government’s inability to respond rapidly and effectively to a public health crisis of massive proportions says little about its ability to build roads, collect taxes, or secure the nation. It is no secret that India’s public health expenditure as a share of GDP is well below international standards and showed little sign of increasing over the last decade. A large wave of Covid-19 cases was every Indian’s nightmare precisely because the healthcare system was expected to severely struggle under pressure.
The same cannot be said for India’s defence establishment and broader ability to generate and project military power, and this is what counts when it comes to India’s foreign relations and the Quad in particular. Despite being devastated by the pandemic, the country has nonetheless sustained thousands of troops and equipment at high altitudes in its border confrontation with China for over a year to date.
Finally, on the question of India’s image, there is no doubt that the central government and state governments today should be eating humble pie given their negligence and misplaced triumphalism of early 2021. However, this fact alone says little about whether India’s self-image as a leading power is more hype than reality. Virtually every rising power in history has nurtured a desire for international standing and global recognition well before it could achieve such goals. And, like India, these nations have stumbled many a time on the path to becoming great powers.
.....
Gautam
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

Actually Quad hinges on India's membership in it.
Don't know how these guys think, but India is the only member of the Quad with a land border with China.
Just as NATO would be defunct without Germany for the US was able to put troops there to confront Warsaw Pact forces.
So Quad without India is NATO without Germany.
And the writer is mixing oranges and apples.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Paul »

The crucial role played by the Red army in defeating the Wehrmacht will be the role played by the Indian army in the Quad. There is no way around it.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

Paul wrote:The crucial role played by the Red army in defeating the Wehrmacht will be the role played by the Indian army in the Quad. There is no way around it.
But then I am reminded of the fact that after WWII the West established NATO to bring down the Red Army. Even during WWII, the D-day was postponed to weaken the Red Army.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Adrija »

But then I am reminded of the fact that after WWII the West established NATO to bring down the Red Army. Even during WWII, the D-day was postponed to weaken the Red Army.
Gautam
Precisely... which is why supposedly Sh PVNR- who was probably one of the most geopolitically sagacious Prime Minster ever - favoured India siding w China in the impending US-China clash

The US - like all nations- needs an enemy always....... once they vanquish China, and vanquish they will- their gaze will turn to India. So it is perhaps paradoxically in our interest that the US-China clash play out for as long as possible. Challenge of course is that for that to happen, China needs to remain capable of standing up to the US for a long time, which is (a) a question mark; and (b) their aggression will play out against India first

Interesting times
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by kit »

Adrija wrote:
. Even during WWII, the D-day was postponed to weaken the Red Army.
Gautam
The US - like all nations- needs an enemy always....... once they vanquish China, and vanquish they will- their gaze will turn to India. So it is perhaps paradoxically in our interest that the US-China clash play out for as long as possible. Challenge of course is that for that to happen, China needs to remain capable of standing up to the US for a long time, which is (a) a question mark; and (b) their aggression will play out against India first.Interesting times
It will be so ., the US would most probably try to kill " two birds with one stone" ., plus a conflict at the Himalayas is far better than a conflict near home !!
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

g.sarkar wrote:
Paul wrote:The crucial role played by the Red army in defeating the Wehrmacht will be the role played by the Indian army in the Quad. There is no way around it.
But then I am reminded of the fact that after WWII the West established NATO to bring down the Red Army. Even during WWII, the D-day was postponed to weaken the Red Army.
Gautam
they have been trying to replace their body bags with Indian body bags since the days of bush and vajpayee.

just like they did in WWII with the red army.

they remain hopeful that they will succeed.

There seems to have been a misfire in afghanistan.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:Actually Quad hinges on India's membership in it.
Don't know how these guys think, but India is the only member of the Quad with a land border with China.
Just as NATO would be defunct without Germany for the US was able to put troops there to confront Warsaw Pact forces.
So Quad without India is NATO without Germany.
And the writer is mixing oranges and apples.
Also, India is the only one with the muscle to take on the cheeni as well as defy them by providing resources for the QUAD.

No India, no QUAD because then it becomes prohibitively expensive to operate in these waters.

and yet India's contribution is often minimized, as well as, negated by a majority of the tamed and house broken thinktankis
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by kit »

chetak wrote:
ramana wrote:
and yet India's contribution is often minimized, as well as, negated by a majority of the tamed and house broken thinktankis
Its not a broken but a well thought of policy that targets "weak spots" of the elephant , remember the US has probably the deepest influence in India compared to any other country. Helping to "evolve and influence" policy decisions is the forte of one of their agencies.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by vikramb »

A somewhat skeptical take on the quad.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ca ... ina-180786
Can the Quad Transform Into an Alliance to Contain China?
Whither the “Quad”? Is the Quad, or Quadrilateral Security Dialogue—a loose grouping of likeminded Indo-Pacific nations—a military coalition in the making?

by James Holmes

Whither the “Quad”? Is the Quad, or Quadrilateral Security Dialogue—a loose grouping of likeminded Indo-Pacific nations—a military coalition in the making?

Maybe—but how tight that fellowship becomes is largely up to Communist China, the provocateur that brought disparate partners together in the first place.

The Quad is made up of India, Australia, Japan, and the United States. The United States acts as the hub of this consortium. It shares close and longstanding bilateral alliances with two of the members, Japan and Australia, providing a durable basis for tripartite cooperation in East and South Asia. The other spoke is flimsier. How India will relate to the Quad is the real question.

This is not a country eager for alliance entanglements. Just the reverse.

Current events may yield insight into the Quad’s future. At present Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin is visiting India on his first foreign trip. Austin traveled to Tokyo and Seoul in company with Secretary of State Anthony Blinken before tarrying in New Delhi. Quad members convened for a virtual summit on March 12. And on the bilateral level, New Delhi and Washington have concluded four “foundational defense pacts” since 2002, putting in place measures for bilateral military cooperation of various types. These agreements lay the groundwork for enterprises serving mutual interests should the partners choose to undertake them. That’s heartening news.

The U.S.-India agreements do not add up to a political commitment of any kind, let alone a mutual defense pact. They do provide the option to work together, and thus grant the partners freedom of maneuver in trying circumstances. The Quad is more of an entente cordiale than an Asian NATO.

According to Harvard professor Stephen Walt, three adhesives tend to bind together alliances, coalitions, and partnerships: common interests, threats in particular; social, political, and cultural affinities between the partners, such as a common language or heritage; and material incentives or disincentives applied by the dominant partner. Walt lists these glues in descending order of importance, and for good reason. Societies under threat naturally look for outside support, especially if they cannot manage challenges out of their own resources. They make common cause to survive—and survival is the most basic instinct for individuals and societies.

Walt doubts the other two adhesives are sticky enough to unite international consortia on their own. Sociocultural affinities do make for more intimate cooperation between partners that band together out of common interests. Material factors, meanwhile, are the least durable. After all, if a dominant ally bankrolls an alliance, renting its allies’ allegiance, their loyalty lasts only as long as the leader keeps paying the rent. If a dominant ally strong arms allies into joining it, their allegiance lasts only as long as the coercion does. In fact, a nonconsensual alliance can drain the leader’s resources and energy. Just ask the Soviet Union, Napoleonic France, or the Athenian Empire how easy it is to police unwilling allies.

Let’s use Walt’s metrics to gauge the Quad’s prospects. As he might have prophesied, a common interest in counterbalancing China brought the arrangement together over time. China also gets a vote in how it evolves. The more domineering Beijing’s conduct, the more closely the Quad partners will cooperate to offset its ambitions. It’s no accident that the tempo of Quad meetings, agreements, and military exercises has picked up in recent years, when China took to abusing its neighbors in East Asia and encroaching on the Indian Ocean region.

Does that mean China’s leadership could abort the Quad by moderating its words and deeds? I’m not so sure. It gets a vote, not a veto. If the twenty-first century has taught the region anything, it’s that China is not to be trusted. It used to pursue “soft-power” diplomacy, portraying itself as an innately beneficent great power on the rise. Beijing pointed to the “treasure voyages” of the Ming Dynasty admiral Zheng He as proof that China would never wrest territory from fellow Asians or otherwise molest them. It summarily jettisoned its charm offensive about a decade ago. It now glowers at its neighbors. It seems soft power now means cowing others into submission, not conciliating them.

Nor are promises issuing from Beijing sacrosanct, even if codified by treaty. Chinese spokesmen repeatedly foreswore efforts to obtain overseas military bases, only to pivot and open one in Djibouti in 2017. It is a charter member of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, but it rejects fundamental precepts of the law of the sea and flouted an international court ruling that struck down its unlawful claims to maritime jurisdiction. And on and on. Every Chinese commitment comes with a shelf life, and the communist leadership determines when it expires. People notice such things.

I suppose there are tactical advantages to regarding peacetime diplomacy as war by other means, and to making deception its core. But being powerful and deceitful comes at a cost. When sizing up a potential threat to national security, strategists examine the prospective antagonist’s capabilities and its intentions—the components of its strength. If the opponent’s conduct is duplicitous, erratic, or openly menacing, they have no choice but to assume the worst—and plan against its capabilities. And China’s capabilities are expanding at a prodigious rate. It has set a dangerous cycle in motion.

And that cycle is set to continue. It’s doubtful in the extreme that Beijing could go back to its softly, softly diplomacy—even if it wanted to. No one would believe it. Meanwhile it keeps augmenting its military might. In all likelihood, then, protracted strategic competition awaits—no matter how party chieftains comport themselves from now on. Judging from interests and threats, the Quad is here to stay in one form or another.

In some ways culture is a glue helping the Quad cohere. But in others it’s a solvent. The U.S.-Australian and U.S.-Japanese alliances are as sturdy as they come. These standing accords have existed for so long that they have come to form part of the allies’ individual as well as common heritage, much as NATO cemented the Atlantic community many decades ago. Disunion is almost unthinkable. It might seem that culture would attract India to such a multinational fellowship as well. After all, India is an English-speaking democracy and an offshoot of the British Empire, much like the United States and Australia. It has common ground with two of three fellow Quad members in the form of language, political institutions, and history.

But differences stand out as well. Great Britain did not found India the way it founded Australia and the United States. By contrast, the Raj was a brief if influential interlude in the subcontinent’s venerable history. Their variegated traditions give Indians an outlook on the region and the world that differs somewhat from other English-speaking societies. More recent history has its influence as well. India prides itself on its nonaligned status and strategic autonomy, which work against membership in formal alliances. It sees itself as a benign hegemon over the Indian Ocean. It fought Japan during World War II, and has an occasionally fraught past with America dating to the Cold War.

Cultural affinities are probably still a net plus for the Quad—but clearly the members have some baggage to overcome.

And the material dimension? These are prosperous societies, the pandemic notwithstanding. Military sage Carl von Clausewitz notes that there are two basic types of alliances: alliances of equals and those dominated by a hegemon. It might be true that the United States has the most to contribute to the Quad in resource terms, but it cannot expect to impose its wishes on its partners. Washington must treat the arrangement as a partnership among equals, and comport itself accordingly. A spirit of compromise and mutual deference suits this sort of informal consortium. That Secretary Austin took the trouble to travel to India and Japan is a sign that U.S. leaders have the correct attitude.

Let’s keep it up.

Austrian diplomat Klemens von Metternich might add one final point to this appraisal. Toward the endgame of the Napoleonic Wars, it appeared the coalition battling the little emperor might fracture—as so many had before. Interests and policies were starting to diverge, pulling the allies apart. This prospect alarmed Metternich, who told one interlocutor: “it is with alliances as with all fraternizations; if they do not have a strictly determinate aim, they disintegrate.” The Quad has no strictly determinate aim. The good news is that no partner is likely to embroil others in endeavors they would prefer to forego. The bad news is that the partners may waffle in stressful times while debating policy and strategy.

Keeping the Quad informal thus grants China time and the initiative. After all, Chinese Communist Party leaders have little need to consult with allies, still less to win them over to Beijing’s policies. China can act. Alliances of equals have no such luxury. If Austin and his counterparts in New Delhi, Canberra, and Tokyo can’t agree on well-defined aims, they can at least explore what is and is not possible for the partnership. That way they won’t be caught off-guard when trouble looms. The chances of concerted action will brighten.

And that may do for now.

James Holmes is J. C. Wylie Chair of Maritime Strategy at the Naval War College. His books are featured on the Navy and Marine Corps Professional Reading Lists. The views voiced here are his alone.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

May be keeping the Quad purposefully vague in the visible sphere is not such a bad idea. Keep China guessing ;-)
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Pratyush »

it seems that people want to take quad to a specific conclusion immediately. Whereas, the basic purpose of quad should be that members are able to reach that conclusion as and when required.

The former destination leaves no room for imagination. No room for conversation with any one. The destination is set. The arrival at the destination is only a matter of time.

The latter gives every participant and even PRC an opportunity to have a conversation and discuss the matter diplomatically before all options have expired and we are left with a brutal and inescapable reality.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

We haven't seen much discussion of Blinken's visit to India wrt Quad.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Put the sticky on this thread. As I had completely forgotten about this.

Perhaps because of all the psyops about Blinken coming to put the ugly natives in their place.

So had low expectations from the visit.

Can't speak for others.

PS : delete this comment once you have put a sticky on the thread.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.jagranjosh.com/current-affa ... 27297797-1
US Secretary of State visits India, discusses India-US relations, Quad and other key areas; Check details
Shailaja Tripathi, Jul 29, 2021

During his visit to India, the US Secretary of State touched upon various regional and global issues and emphasized on growing India-US relations stronger. The other strategic areas, during the talks, covered Quad, troops withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the pandemic. Check the highlights below.
The US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on July 28, 2021, met PM Modi, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and NSA Ajit Doval for the discussions. He was on a visit to India on July 27-28, 2021 for the first time after assuming office.
The meet was crucial as it came at a time when the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan may have sent the country into a Civil War and when China has become an acute challenge for both the US and India.
During the talks, Blinken attached great importance to the relationship between India and the US and assured that it will continue to be stronger under the Biden administration.
The US Secretary of State also focused on Afghanistan, Quad Vaccine, and the determination to end the COVID-19 pandemic.
The visit by the US State Secretary was the continuance of high-level visits from the Biden Administration after the visits by the US Special Envoy on Climate Change Jon Kerry in April 2021 and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin in March 2021.
Blinken meeting with PM Modi
US Secretary of State met PM Modi on July 28, 2021, during his visit to India. Prime Minister Modi, during the meeting, welcomed President Biden's strong commitment to strengthening the relationship between India and the US.
PM Modi also tweeted about the meeting and said that both the countries share democratic values and are a force for global good.
.....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.india.com/news/world/us-sec ... y-4846628/
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken Arrives in India; to Discuss Plethora of Issues Today
On Wednesday, Blinken will hold extensive talks with External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and meet National Security Advisor Ajit Doval. He will also call on Prime Minister Narendra Modi before leaving for Kuwait as part of his two-nation tour.
Edited by Priyanka, July 28, 2021

New Delhi: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrived here on Tuesday on a two-day visit to further expand the “strong and growing” bilateral partnership with the Biden administration describing India as a “leading global power and a key US partner” in the Indo-Pacific and beyond. Blinken and Indian leaders on Wednesday will discuss a plethora of pressing issues such as the fluid situation in Afghanistan, regional security concerns, COVID-19 response and ways to boost Indo-Pacific engagement, people familiar with the agenda of talks said.
In a fact sheet, the US State Department said the US supports India’s emergence as a leading global power and vital partner in efforts to ensure that the Indo-Pacific is a region of peace, stability, and growing prosperity and economic inclusion. “India is a leading global power and a key U.S. partner in the Indo-Pacific and beyond,” the document shared with reporters by the US embassy in India said. “A partnership anchored in shared values, mutual interests and goodwill. Welcome to US Secretary of State @SecBlinken on his arrival in Delhi,” External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Arindam Bagchi tweeted.
Extensive talks with Jaishankar, Doval; to call on PM Modi
On Wednesday, Blinken will hold extensive talks with External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and meet National Security Advisor Ajit Doval. He will also call on Prime Minister Narendra Modi before leaving for Kuwait as part of his two-nation tour. “.@SecBlinken is wheels down in New Delhi for meetings with our Indian partners. We’re excited to expand the strong and growing #USIndia partnership,” US State Department spokesperson Ned Price said on Twitter. Blinken’s flight landed in India around 7 pm.
The US State Department said Blinken is visiting India to reaffirm the United States’ commitment to strengthening the partnership and underscore cooperation on shared priorities. “Secretary Blinken will meet with Prime Minister Narendra Modi and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar to discuss a wide range of issues, including continued cooperation on COVID-19 response efforts, Indo-Pacific engagement, shared regional security interests, shared democratic values, and addressing the climate crisis,” it said.
........
Gautam
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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https://theprint.in/opinion/blinkens-in ... es/705912/
While Blinken's India trip went on expected lines, the US still has to learn it must stop reading the book ‘How to make enemies and lose friends’.
By SESHADRI CHARI
In contrast to his deputy’s China visit, Blinken’s India visit was as pleasant as the weather in New Delhi on his arrival, and needed no diplomatic umbrella to shield himself from reprimands. Much to the disappointment of a small, insignificant, but vocal, section of ‘whatever Modi does is wrong’ brigade, Blinken did not raise the issue of human rights during his talks with his Indian hosts. Like President Biden, Blinken too can be credited with possession of deep knowledge of India and the challenges that India-US relations have faced in the last five to six decades.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by g.sarkar »

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/30/bi ... fic-china/
How the U.S. Learned to Stop Worrying About the Pacific and Love the ‘Indo-Pacific’
The United States has a new lens for its rivalry with China.
By Jack Detsch, July 30, 2021

In early 2017, U.S. and Japanese strategists were poring over maps on the top floor of the U.S. State Department. Satoshi Suzuki, a Japanese official, and Brian Hook, his U.S. counterpart, zoomed in on almost every touch point in Asia: the honeymoon between then-newly elected U.S. President Donald Trump and then-Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, the emergence of India, and a potential flare-up on the Korean Peninsula. And then Suzuki widened the lens.
The Japanese side presented a series of maps, labeled “Free and Open Indo-Pacific Strategy.” Suzuki told Hook that Tokyo wanted to radically redraw the geography of the region, from the north-south orientation of the World War II era focused on the first and second island chains of the western Pacific Ocean to a two-ocean strategy that envisioned Japanese policy in Asia stretching to India and even as far as the Persian Gulf.
“It wasn’t the old and more narrow Asia-Pacific. It was the broader Indo-Pacific, and it recognized the significance of India in particular,” said a former senior Trump administration official. “It was a sense that, you know, we weren’t going to get what we wanted by asking Beijing nicely.”
Something clicked. The idea caught fire in Washington. Hook quickly began briefing the idea to then-U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and shared the Japanese maps with European allies. The Trump administration, like the Obama administration before it, had been looking for a way to bring India in from the cold of its nonaligned Cold War stance and focus on China. Now, the Japanese were giving the new U.S. administration a way to say it.
Four years and a change of administrations later, the Indo-Pacific remains the flavor du jour of U.S. policy in Asia. The first foreign visits of U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration touched down in Japan and India. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken are currently on their own Indo-Pacific tours. Meanwhile, the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (known as the Quad) partnership that also includes the United States and Australia is one of the most buzzed-about diplomatic groupings around.
And the shift in tone, spurred by Japan and encouraged by Australia, has major implications for U.S. military strategy as the Biden administration decides how—and where—it will counter China’s rise.
Although the term has given the United States’ friends the ability to call out Beijing on its territorial expansion without stepping on its toes, some experts and former officials worry that by hemming too closely to Tokyo and Canberra’s wonts, the United States could risk taking its eye off the ball in the Western Pacific, such as a future Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
“From a military perspective, the focus really needs to be tightly on the Pacific, especially the first island chain and Taiwan,” said Elbridge Colby, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense during the Trump administration who helped craft the 2018 National Defense Strategy. “The Indian Ocean is a distinctly secondary theater for the United States and shouldn’t distract from that primary focus.”
What’s in a name? For Harry Harris, the U.S. military commander overseeing all U.S. troops from Hawaii to the edge of the Persian Gulf, it meant a lot. Nearly 5,000 miles from Washington, at U.S. Pacific Command’s headquarters in the tree-lined hills above Honolulu’s Waikiki Beach, Harris had long sensed strategic ground was shifting beneath the U.S. Defense Department’s feet, even if that message wasn’t always getting across in the Pentagon’s outer ring.
Harris had risen through the ranks from a maritime patrol officer flying turboprop surveillance planes from India’s southern coast in the mid-1990s to become the highest-ranking Japanese American in the entire Navy. And when his predecessor, Adm. Samuel Locklear, overstayed his allotted time at Pacific Command, Harris had some extra time between his 2014 confirmation and 2015 start date to think about how he wanted to change the region.
.......
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Quad expected to meet in Washington on Sept. 24
The Quad, a framework for cooperation between Japan, Australia, India and the United States, has begun coordinating a summit meeting to be held in Washington on Sept. 24, according to government officials. Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga will represent Japan at what is to be the group’s first face-to-face meeting. After the meeting, the leaders are expected to announce a joint document focusing on cooperation in three areas: novel coronavirus vaccines, climate change and advanced technologies.

In a joint statement issued after the Quad’s online summit in March, the leaders laid out measures for cooperation, including the establishment of working groups in the three areas. At this month meeting, they are to confirm that they will raise the level of such cooperation.

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SSridhar
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

The following is a part of the six-part series on the QUAD by the Chennai Center for China Studies, C3S.

The idea is to show what compels the four countries to come together.

Japan-China Relationship - The QUAD, Part 3

Three other parts to follow.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Straight from EAM SJ :

SSridhar
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

A talk which was wide-ranging and clear in exposition, as usual from Dr. Jaishankar.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SRajesh »

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... rs-of-war/
Interesting take by the author!!
But reading certain historical passages our founding fathers (if not all but quite a few 'Stalwart' ones) were enamoured by this 'Piece Prize' non-sense!!
The military top-brass post '62 had enough spine and sense but the babooze screwed the country and sold us down the river for a 'Few Schekels'
Be it Indira, Gujral or even for that Matter Atalji (one China policy)were mislead at critical junctures
As one of the members quite succinctly put it our Think-Tanks of the past were more of Chai-Biskoot/Chini Kum/Samoose main of Aloo types???
We have some great Military leaders like Thimmy, Sam Bahadur but some disasters like Thapar. But those disasters were deliberately placed their by the babooze and politicos in cahoot (each with with their own goals ie obtaining Hara-chitti or Piece-Prize)
The forming of AUSUK notwithstanding QUAD shows WW2 mentality is still the driving force
The great in all this is who after Modiji!! Will he or she have enough spine to stand up to the babooze
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Modiji and Macron spoke today. Modiji has kind of invited France into the Quad (to play an important role in IndoPacific actually) since US has unilaterally invited UK to the party. :) :)
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by KL Dubey »

^^Makes sense. But FR was already in the picture. The IN-FR-AUS trilateral that was announced earlier this year will no longer be needed. In any case, AUS has very little to offer in terms of security in the western Indian Ocean...and like its buddy (the UK) is merely a bystander in that. A bilateral IN-FR effort would work very well.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

So its QUAD+2 now?
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by ramana »

Rsatchi wrote:http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... rs-of-war/
Interesting take by the author!!
But reading certain historical passages our founding fathers (if not all but quite a few 'Stalwart' ones) were enamoured by this 'Piece Prize' non-sense!!
The military top-brass post '62 had enough spine and sense but the babooze screwed the country and sold us down the river for a 'Few Schekels'
Be it Indira, Gujral or even for that Matter Atalji (one China policy)were mislead at critical junctures
As one of the members quite succinctly put it our Think-Tanks of the past were more of Chai-Biskoot/Chini Kum/Samoose main of Aloo types???
We have some great Military leaders like Thimmy, Sam Bahadur but some disasters like Thapar. But those disasters were deliberately placed their by the babooze and politicos in cahoot (each with with their own goals ie obtaining Hara-chitti or Piece-Prize)
The forming of AUSUK notwithstanding QUAD shows WW2 mentality is still the driving force
The great in all this is who after Modiji!! Will he or she have enough spine to stand up to the babooze
It's a bokwas article.
I have read many books on the 1971 war and Mrs. Gandhi repeatedly wanted to send back the POWs for many reasons, the prime being expense. Further, she hoped it will create goodwill among the people of Pakistan and ill will against the military that lost half the country.

Anyway, why was this posted in this thread?
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Roop »

KL Dubey wrote:... AUS has very little to offer in terms of security in the western Indian Ocean...
This statement is far from true! In fact, Australia is a bit like Pakistan -- it offers tremendous advantages to the right friend/ally just by virtue of its geographical location.

In times of war (or even impending war / high political tension) it is quite likely that Quad & Friends (i.e. Quad+2) would want to cut off (or at least harass and impede) Chinese maritime traffic flow between Indian and Pacific Oceans. How to do this? India can easily handle the Malacca Straits by itself. In terms of naval power, we would need no help, but for diplomatic/political reasons, it might help to have a French or US warship along with us.

With Malacca blocked to Chinese traffic, they would have to go around/through Indonesian waters, i.e. the Sunda Straits or the Lombok Straits. Both of these bodies of water can easily be patrolled 24x7 by ships / submarines operating out of northern Australia (like Darwin, for example). As in the Malacca case, diplomatic/political support could be provided by a British / US warship.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by KL Dubey »

Roop wrote:This statement is far from true! In fact, Australia is a bit like Pakistan -- it offers tremendous advantages to the right friend/ally just by virtue of its geographical location.

In times of war (or even impending war / high political tension) it is quite likely that Quad & Friends (i.e. Quad+2) would want to cut off (or at least harass and impede) Chinese maritime traffic flow between Indian and Pacific Oceans. How to do this? India can easily handle the Malacca Straits by itself. In terms of naval power, we would need no help, but for diplomatic/political reasons, it might help to have a French or US warship along with us.

With Malacca blocked to Chinese traffic, they would have to go around/through Indonesian waters, i.e. the Sunda Straits or the Lombok Straits. Both of these bodies of water can easily be patrolled 24x7 by ships / submarines operating out of northern Australia (like Darwin, for example). As in the Malacca case, diplomatic/political support could be provided by a British / US warship.
Are Malacca, Sunda, or Lombok straits located in the western Indian Ocean ?

All energy-related shipping lanes to China coming through the western IOR (gulf, suez, cape) are well within the reach of our western fleet and our security arrangements/basing facilities with Mauritius, Seychelles, etc. There are also joint patrols with the French these days.

The eastern IOR focus is mainly on blocking PLA Navy expeditions from trying to enter the IOR from the Pacific. Kangaroos might be useful as fodder there since they'll be the first "ally" to see the PLA Navy. Trusting these convict-gene carriers with anything important would still be folly. As India has stated today, we are not bothered about AUKUS since it is a security alliance. We do not need AUKUS for our security.

These matters have been discussed multiple times before.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SRajesh »

ramana wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... rs-of-war/
Interesting take by the author!!
The forming of AUSUK notwithstanding QUAD shows WW2 mentality is still the driving force
It's a bokwas article.
I have read many books on the 1971 war and Mrs. Gandhi repeatedly wanted to send back the POWs for many reasons, the prime being expense. Further, she hoped it will create goodwill among the people of Pakistan and ill will against the military that lost half the country.

Anyway, why was this posted in this thread?
Ramanaji
Apologies
But all I wanted to bring out was the are our babooze still gullible enough to guide the politicos into useless entities that ties us up
QUAD maybe too early to write off but declaration of AUSUK so early makes one worried.
Do we walk in with our eyes open or partially closed :roll:
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by KL Dubey »

^^According to your logic EAM Jaishankar must be the worst of both worlds...babu and poltoo rolled into one big goofer who ties up these arrangements ?
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Pratyush »

I have been seeing a lot of r&d about QUAD being made irrelevant because AUKUS has been created.

What none of the people whining about AUKUS have been able to explain in a coherent manner why is expected from QUAD today or 10 years from now. That the existence of AUKUS has adversely effected.

I mean was it a military alliance with a mutual defence agreement?

Or an informal collection of like minded nations with a common problem.

When I look at AUKUS, I see it as an opportunity to develop capacity within India which didn't exist before. It could be for jet engines. As in the Rolls Royce offer for joint engine development with IPR belonging to India.

We certainly don't really require SSN.

I see this as a beginning of a whole new world of technical opportunity for India.

Not as a setback.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by rsingh »

Well said. We have stop this Babulogs work ethick: we do not fo anything so that we do not do mistakes. Why apply for observer status and host some radars in Maldives etc. That is for binging. Operation, maintenance and technology transfereventually .
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Kati »

Long article, uses Game Theory (GT) (however, the payoff's and each side's strategies' assumptions of the GT model haven't been spelled out here, may be classified)

The Quad is on the rise in Asia ....

https://www.cnbc.com/quad-summit-and-ch ... -the-quad/
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