Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Rakesh wrote:The Quad Squad: Power and Purpose of the Polygon | Raisina Dialogue 2023
Thank you, Rakesh for posting this.

I am able to see a very visible cohesion and a sense of purpose within the QUAD. Among other things, a closer working of the QUAD with the IORA, the proposed setting up of Maritime Security as well as counter-terrorism Working Groups within the QUAD are welcome initiatives as also arriving at a consensus for UN reforms. The proposed QUAD initiative on the HADR at last completes the circle which was suggested in c. 2005.

In the first summit meeting, after QUAD was elevated to that level, PM Modi clearly stated 'QUAD has arrived' and EAM Jaishankar had stated even earlier that the hesitations of history have been overcome. The fact that Wang Yi, who once dismissed QUAD as 'sea foam that would soon disappear' had to increasingly refer to the QUAD either directly or indirectly and repeatedly too in his press meets and statements, meant that China was taking it very seriously. Qin Gang had to refer to the QUAD in his very first press meet, continuing the seriousness.

For India, China is THE enemy, the clear and present danger. There is no other enemy of the same class and formidableness as China. There is great confidence within Indian diplomacy.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Rakesh »

You are welcome SSridhar-ji.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Rakesh »

South Korea, under pressure from China, is moving closer to the Quad
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... loser-quad
11 March 2013
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by yensoy »

Cyrano wrote:
Rakesh wrote:The Quad Squad: Power and Purpose of the Polygon | Raisina Dialogue 2023
I watched this, clearly there were 2 camps, and one them was quite unsure where the other is leading them and if this whole thing made sense..
I'll let you place your guesses.
Reminds me of the old poem "The Blind Man and the Elephant" https://allpoetry.com/The-Blind-Man-And-The-Elephant.

Each defines the animal in their own vision of the world. That seems to be what is happening here, but hey it's a start.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

The 2 camps I see are India on one side and US, AUS, JP on the other. If you look that the joint communiqué that Sridhar garu has posted, its all Vasudhiava Kutumbakam agenda, making the other three do something useful for a change, and tying them with their own words and postures, instead of zimbly jet setting to nibble free chai biskoot.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by vijayk »

They know how critical India is but woke gangs/deep state wants to destabilize India and spread jihad/commie crap all over India
Velina Tchakarova @vtchakarova

Good morning with a beautiful #map by @ConGeostrategy on #AUKUS power projection in the #Indopacific. If you color Russia the same as China, you‘ll get the #Dragonbear power projection in the #Arctic and #IndoPacific too. #India will be key to both geopolitical constellations.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Quad leaders to hold security summit in Sydney on May 24 - AP
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Wednesday he will host President Joe Biden and the leaders of India and Japan for a security summit next month.

The meeting in Sydney on May 24 will be Australia's first time hosting the Quad Leaders' Summit. It will also include Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

vijayk wrote:They know how critical India is but woke gangs/deep state wants to destabilize India and spread jihad/commie crap all over India

[.
[/quote]

With all the Chinese Investment, Indonesia could be in the Chinese camp, that would Australia in much larger soup.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Quad, AUKUS attempts to contain China: Russia - ToI
This is the dilemma. India welcomes QUAD. QUAD is certainly anti-China. China is India's biggest threat & enemy for a long time to come. China is a 'no limit, no forbidden area friend' of Russia. China-Russia friendship will become more intense as their relationship with the US and the West deteriorates further. Both Russia & India are caught in a cleft there. However much spin some may put on this.
Russia on Friday lashed out at the US and multilateral groupings like the Quad, of which India is a member, and AUKUS as moves to contain China, at the defence ministers’ meet of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) here.

The US and its allies are actively opposing the formation of a multipolar world in the Asia-Pacific, with “counter-measures” through military and political alliances such as Quad and AUKUS which are “integrating into Nato”, Russian defence minister Sergei K Shoigu said.

“The concept of a free and open Indo-Pacific region is now promoted…In order to contain China, a front is forming,” he said, stressing that the US and “its enablers” are pursuing a strategic agenda to provoke military confrontation with Russia and China.

“The conflict in Ukraine is a clear demonstration of this criminal policy. Its real aim is to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia, threaten China, and maintain its monopoly position in the world,” Shoigu said. The Russian minister’s critical references to the Quad and the explicit support expressed for China on Indian soil will not go down well with New Delhi, which is already concerned over the tightening Moscow-Beijing strategic embrace amid the ongoing military confrontation with China in eastern Ladakh and fallout of the war in Ukraine.

New Delhi has repeatedly made it clear that it pursues a policy of “strategic autonomy” and that the Quad grouping among India, the US, Australia and Japan is not a military bloc or alliance. AUKUS, however, is a clear-cut military pact among the US, UK and Australia, under which Canberra will gradually acquire at least eight nuclear-powered submarines.

In the bilateral meeting with Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, Shoigu however reaffirmed the time-tested strategic partnership between the two countries. India-Russia ties have not been curtailed despite all the external challenges of the last year, with bilateral cooperation developing at a large scale and rapid pace for the long-term, Shoigu said.

India, in turn, asked Russia to facilitate the production of spares in India for maintenance of Russian-origin weapon systems, which can also be exported to other nations. The two sides discussed Russian defence industry’s participation in the ‘Make in India’ initiative and ways to provide further impetus to it, an official said.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Aditya_V wrote:With all the Chinese Investment, Indonesia could be in the Chinese camp, that would Australia in much larger soup.
Aditya_V, there are overlapping pros and cons. But, Indonesia will not join the China camp, imo.

Indonesia is very wary of China. China claims fishing grounds off Indonesia in the Indo-China Sea so much so that Indonesia hurriedly re-named it as the North Natuna Sea officially. There have been clashes between the maritime militia of China and the Indonesian fishermen in the rich fishing grounds. There has also been a standoff between the Indonesian Navy and the Chinese Coastguard in December/January 2020/2021. China claims 50,000 Square KMs of Natuna Sea as part of its “traditional fishing grounds”. One of the key reasons that China insists on ‘traditional fishing grounds’ is that China’s claim for the nine-dash line is based on ‘fishing grounds’ and discovery of Chinese porcelain.

The Chinese have also obliquely hinted at their claim to the Natuna Besar island of Indonesia (in the Riau Islands Province between Malaysia and Borneo). This prompted the Indonesian President Joko Widodo to visit the island with the President asserting that the sovereignty of the Indonesian island was ‘non-negotiable’. Simultaneously, the Indonesian Foreign Minister reiterated that her government rejected claims that were incompatible with and not recognised by international laws. The other tactics that China uses to establish its claim for Indo China Sea is to build oil-rigs and develop islands or islets as it does with the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Haresh »

Nato planning to open Japan office to deepen Asia-Pacific ties – report

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ies-report
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

^ This would complicate the situation for India as it sharpens the contours of the developing blocs. The situation will become more and more delicate for us as it develops. Japan & SoKo attended the recent NATO meet at Madrid.

The Russian defence minister's trashing of the QUAD and his reference to this (& AUKUS) being a front to contain China at an SCO meeting hosted by India would certainly not be welcomed by India. In the China+CAR Foreign Ministers' meeting just a few days before, Qin Gang and the CAR ministers had agreed that they "firmly oppose interference in the internal affairs of countries in the region by any forces under any pretext, and make Central Asia a clean land for win-win cooperation rather than a battlefield for geopolitical games." The SCO is loaded with China-pasand members and one more will join soon.

The upcoming SCO FM meeting, the SCO Summit in July and later the G20 meet will have to be managed very cleverly by India.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

If the Russians think through calmly without toeing the Chinese line, they will realise that India is the saner voice in the QUAD. They are better off with long term friend India being in it than outside. If they are fearing India will fall into the western bloc completely they are forgetting that even during trying times and the Cold War India held her own. Resurgent India of today is far more influential and powerful to tumble into Western laps.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by sanman »

The Chinese are not pinned down or hemmed in by a long shot. They seem to be taking the opportunity to make inroads against us, mainly.

Even while not trying to spark a border war with them that will see us turned into cannon-fodder, I think we need to increase joint efforts with Quad members in more broadly countering China across the rest the wider world, as it tries to deepen its presence in Africa, Latin America, etc.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

If you look at the two graphs below, the overlap (with a little lag) is hard to miss.

Image
https://farmdocdaily.illinois.edu/wp-co ... 1_fig1.png

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https://hbr.org/resources/images/articl ... nalgdp.gif

American debt flows as investment into Chinese economy and cheap goods flow back into the US, and a significant portion of the earnings of China are reinvested into US by buying American treasury bonds. America is a colossal debtor and China is a colossal creditor. They feed on each other and have a mutual parasitic relationship, one can euphemistically call it a symbiosis.

To make this work, global trade rules and regulations evolved, and globalisation was made the norm all the way to end of history paroxysms. The rest of the world has benefited from this too, and India a bit lately, and below its potential so far, but the best is yet to come for us.

India will continue its approach of tightly integrated within (Atmanirbhar, PLI etc are exactly for this) and loosely coupled outside. Loosely coupled doesn't mean isolationism or disengagement, but participation in global activity in the pursuit of its rightful self interest without (re)creating strategic dependencies.

Thats why India is as comfortable but no less watchful when it participates in QUAD or BRICS or SCO. We are OK to run a huge trade deficit with China for the time it takes until our internal integration reaches the required level. And China wont want to lose a huge customer country like India either, so despite pointless antics like renaming Arunachal cities, they cant do much since India has kept its red lines cleverly ambiguous.

Same goes for QUAD relationship. We are fine to do an FTA with Aus, several cooperation initiatives with Japan, ICETS type agreements with the US, and within the QUAD framework, actively support seemingly innocuous initiatives like Freedom of Navigation etc etc. But we wont take kindly to NATO expansion into IndoPacific despite their laughable initiatives like inviting India into NATO or opening an o(ri)ffice in Japan.

If the other 3 QUAD members are counting on India to gang up against China, India is in there precisely to shove some sanity into them to defuse such adventurism in our expanding sphere of influence or at least hold it off long enough until we can be sure collateral impacts on India arising from a full-scale US-China conflict are minimal and manageable. And keep China on tenterhooks and guessing about what India will do next.

Not an easy tango to dance but with dozens of dance traditions we have, India is definitely up to the challenge.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Amber G. »

Breaking: Indian PM announces that India will host 2024 Quad summit
Indian PM Modi addresses the Quad summit in Hiroshima, Japan. Emphasises on free & open Indo Pacific.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

It is good that the four top leaders decided to hold the QUAD meeting on the sidelines of the G7 meeting. Otherwise, this meeting wouldn’t have taken place at Sydney as Biden had to return. It shows the importance that the four nations give to the QUAD.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:It is good that the four top leaders decided to hold the QUAD meeting on the sidelines of the G7 meeting. Otherwise, this meeting wouldn’t have taken place at Sydney as Biden had to return. It shows the importance that the four nations give to the QUAD.
Japan and India seem to be the holdouts against any predeclared role for a militarized quad and India is, for the moment keeping it a sort of commercial quad

and the other two are determined to get their way and make it a militarized quad.

NATO is already sniffing around the QUAD, hoping to find a way in

COMCASA, LEMOA, and BECA were signed by India on amriki insistence for this purpose onlee

If the fertilizer hits the rotating apparatus fixed on the ceiling, India will take the brunt of it due to proximity issues if the wrong path is chosen by the Modi govt

Modi's arms length dealings against the idea of a militarized quad is the best bet for us


https://theprint.in/diplomacy/quad-is-n ... ys/639924/

After the Quad got revived in 2017, and now since the first-ever summit of the Quad countries — India, Japan, Australia and the US — many commentators have referred to the Quad as the ‘Asian NATO’.

However, denying that the Quad is a security alliance, or an “Asian NATO”, Jaishankar said the grouping has dealt with 10 broad subjects so far — vaccine collaboration, higher education and student mobility, climate action, HADR (high availability disease recovery), emerging technology, resilient supply chains, semiconductors, disinformation, counterterrorism and maritime security.

“That list will tell you what is in our minds and what is the purpose of what we are trying to do… So the purpose of coming together is actually to find ways of working for our national benefit, for our regional benefit and for global benefit,” he said.
Last edited by chetak on 20 May 2023 21:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Amber G. »

No direct mention of Russia, China in the Quad joint statement but plenty of references in an indirect manner...
Here is the Joint statement:
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Amber G. »

x-posting here.. (perhaps it should go in Japan's thred)..
Indian PM Modi's interview to Japanese newspapers Yomiuri.
Use of weapons of mass destruction is absolutely unacceptable, PM Modi
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(My japanese is little rusty.. but google lens translation is not bad.)
Here is google AI translation (some errors but understandable):
Continuation of equidistant diplomacy with the United States and Russia

Full written interview
India aims to represent emerging nations
certificate
mosquito. Competition among major powers is intensifying, as can be seen in the heightened tensions between the United States and China and the confrontation between the United States, Europe, and Russia over the invasion of Ukraine. How do you see the current state of international relations as a prominent member of the Global South? How can we cooperate with these rival powers to achieve peace and stability in the world?
A high-ranking government official asserts, "There is no dispute with Russia."
China, which is refraining from
feel most strongly. He emphasized that he has placed importance on being the chairman of the 30 major countries and regions (G3), and expressed his desire to increase his presence as the leader of the Global South. According to United Nations estimates, India
With more than 10 people, it is expected to surpass China and become the world's number one. As the economy continues to grow, it will surpass Japan and other countries to become the world's third largest economy within a few years, and many countries will take a neutral stance in the Global South. I'm trying to
The United States has called on the United States to strengthen all guarantees and attract investment in its own country, and has dealt with important issues that it has worked hard to build relations with.
When confronted with China, which is in conflict over undecided borders, the relationship with Russia remains unchanged even after the start of the invasion.
In a written interview with the Yomiuri Shimbun, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi reiterated the need for dialogue and a diplomatic solution to Russia's Ukraine dispute, while avoiding single-minded criticism of Russia. Diplomacy that strives to improve its standing in the international community as a representative of emerging developing countries by sticking to diplomacy that is on a straight line with Japan, the United States, and Europe
The Importance of “Territorial Integrity”
Allow the approach inside, in. There are also predictions that emerging countries and developing countries will grow. US, Europe and China
only emphasized. It has built friendly relations with Russia during the former Soviet era.
Oil from Russia in FY2 is important. Import volume increased 15 times from the previous year. It is said to have been subject to US and European sanctions.
India is cooperating with Japan, the United States, Australia and India. As a member of the framework “Quad” (Russia, the country that imports many weapons, supplies cheap oil), Mr. Modet will visit the United States and France in the future.
On the other hand, Mr. Modi said, "The impact of the new coronavirus and climate change will affect developing countries, and India will have a population in the middle of this year.
statistics
ruka It is my firm belief that this era should be an era of cooperation and collaboration, not an era of conflict.
Developing countries are feeling the heat the most.
China in the South and East China Seas shows Beijing's attempts to unilaterally change the status quo by force in the Indo-Pacific region. India accuses China of trying to transform the Himalayan region. How will India respond to China's actions in order to uphold the fundamental principles of international law regarding sovereignty and preservation of land integrity? How do you see the rise in this regard?
on the bridge
The Voices of the Global South Summit, hosted by India earlier this year, reflected these concerns. Japan has placed importance on addressing these issues as part of the efforts of the G Chair. In keeping with the spirit of our civilization, our country has chosen the theme of ``One Earth, One Family, One Future'' and believes that human-centered development is the way to go.
Declining trend Unstable energy supply, health and food security, and peace and security
The strategy was blurred. (Tomomi Asano, New Delhi, Hiroshima, page 1 of this article)
support international order
Japan uses dialogue and diplomacy as means of settling disputes, and India's policy is to focus on human-centered means that emphasize the interests of people facing rising prices of daily necessities such as food and fertilizer. It is a method of trading in the future, and it will continue to be so. Our country has provided human assistance to those affected by the (Ukraine) crisis.
It will help address pressing global challenges. A solid foundation to support a special global partnership between India and Japan. I am confident that through this partnership, our two countries will meet these challenges and work together on a global scale. Key agenda items for the G7 summit
India's Narendra Modi Letter to the Yomiuri Shimbun The full text of the interview is as follows. Mr. Kishida of Japan will attend the previous (G1 Summit) as chairman of the three major countries/regions (CS). What is the significance of India's participation in this important international situation? I will briefly explain this as a foundation for global cooperation.
With Russia's aggression in mind, Mr. Modi called for easing tensions, saying, "This era should be an era of cooperation and coordination, not an era of conflict."
India has always supported the sovereign rule of law of all nations and the peaceful resolution of disagreements and disputes. determined and well prepared.
India is also a strong supporter of the United Nations Charter, international law and an international order based on the sovereignty and territorial devotion of all nations. As the chair country, "one of the grotesques was that the situation in Ukraine had to be left out. Other partners with geopolitical food ideas Morota Hiroshi The settlement of the conflict should be peaceful.
The world is currently in a difficult situation. A global pandemic is affecting the livelihoods and livelihoods of people who need this 100% fertilizer and energy supplies. Like this.
Conflict over border issues
Each meeting can contribute to further strengthening
Achieving a common goal for Japan and the like to continue one of the greatest challenges faced by the core stations of the nation.
are doing. my
We will cooperate. Japan should be different, and has demonstrated the correctness of these approaches by relying solely on international law.
India has been able to play this role in order to stop how it sees and responds to Ukraine, the priority Russia of the “Southern”.
should not.
Or take a concern inside the G3? India is Ukraine Our country has caused confusion both inside and outside the United Nations. Terrorism should be a bridge to connect humanitarian voices. This reflects the resolution's intense focus on one another, the speedy resolution of the Raina crisis, and the setting of a positive plan for those who believe in existence and fosters confidence in world peace and what has always been my focus. has remained strong in its constructive efforts to import oil from Russia. Climate change is critical to ensuring the stability of our nation's continued strength. We are increasing the number of South Korean voices coming to Hiroshima. These are involved. India will remain united in tackling serious challenges for future generations, and in embracing differences, India will be on land with Bangladesh, detailing its perspectives and priorities, and pushing for a peaceful solution. there is Millions of people around the world will make every effort to solve the maritime border challenges that will improve the situation of humanity as a whole.
G7G3 collaboration will help to deal with climate change, supply chain (disruption, global economic recovery)
maintain friendly relations
I heartily welcome Mr. Kishida's vision and Japan's "regional security cooperation for all" to promote peace, stability and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region. We are committed to building a free, open and prosperous Indo-Pacific region.
, help them reach their goals and manage their current challenges. For example, health security, sustainability, humanitarian assistance, and breath. Disaster relief and others will continue to set up such plans.
Absolutely unacceptable, I firmly believe. India moves towards the goal of a world without nuclear weapons. and climate change Infrastructure (social infrastructure, to work with all countries)
need to reform. It needs to reflect today's different realities.
nuclear unacceptable
Born in 1950 in the western state of Gujarat into a family. Since 1987, he has served as a member of the People's Party provincial assembly, and in 2001 he became premier of the province. It promoted economic growth by promoting harmony and attracting foreign companies. The People's Party took office as prime minister in 2014 and is now 2 years old.
Prime Minister Kishida said during his visit to India in March that the new plan to promote a Free and Open India and Growth (SAGAR) Pacific has strong alignment. We announced our plan to support developing countries as a country based on the rule of law. will you fight In the future, we will highly evaluate the announcement of the quad. Kishida
The Security Council at the time of World War II
Germany, in 2004, will be named four at the United Nations. The Security Council will form the world's largest group of nations (GI), the founding nations of India and Asia. Another of the IG7 summits, UN Security Council reform, Latin America, and other important current aspects are to continue to thrive if the Security Council and its intentions are to be fulfilled. G will be expected to realize the reform of the Security Council. What kind of schedule do you have in mind above for Japan to complete the work within a certain period of time? specific direction
I thought I would. Japan and the United States
In the international situation of nuclear disarmament and nuclear abolition, which is a key agenda item, how does India stand in relation to the continent's representatives and issues? What are your thoughts on Russia and North Korea taking actions such as bringing up the possibility of tactical use?
do you want to see
Mr. Kishida's new plan
To remain meaningful, he will continue to cooperate with partner countries in order to continue to use the weapons of mass destruction developed by partner countries within India to realize his vision.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Office
Prime Minister Modi written interview
Conflict over security
India
relationship strengthening
Saturday, May 20, 2023
Relations between India and major countries
Russia
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Amber G. »

Speaking at the Quad Leaders' Meeting in Hiroshima.
https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1nAKErZmkdoGL
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by SSridhar »

chetak wrote:Japan and India seem to be the holdouts against any predeclared role for a militarized quad and India is, for the moment keeping it a sort of commercial quad

and the other two are determined to get their way and make it a militarized quad.

NATO is already sniffing around the QUAD, hoping to find a way in

COMCASA, LEMOA, and BECA were signed by India on amriki insistence for this purpose onlee

If the fertilizer hits the rotating apparatus fixed on the ceiling, India will take the brunt of it due to proximity issues if the wrong path is chosen by the Modi govt

Modi's arms length dealings against the idea of a militarized quad is the best bet for us
After all, the QUAD is the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. I am pretty sure therefore that the four nations have a common minimum understanding of the military component of the QUAD. The extent of involvement of the four would vary but there would have to be involvement.

Of course, the prudent policy is to keep emphasizing the non-military components of the QUAD which are growing.

China would certainly view it as a security alliance whatever spin any leader of the QUAD puts on it. China's views on QUAD have changed from merely dismissing it in c. 2017, characterizing it as a 'soon to disappear sea foam' into now looking at it more seriously to the extent of advising other nations in the region to be wary of it.

Japan has frequently said, (both Abe and now Kishida - who was once considered as soft-on-China in the Abe cabinet) that Taiwan and ICS are existential crises for Japan. Understandably so. Japan also has the longest running civilizational hostility, in human history, with China.

Troubles in Indo-China Sea would enormously impact India too. Already China is claiming that the Taiwan Straits is not an international waterway. This is a crucial waterway for India too.

India cannot view ICS purely through the prism of US-China conflict for hegemony. It is our very proximity to China that puts us at a great risk irrespective of what happens between the US & China. It has been so for us since the late 1950s.

I view it like this: It is somewhat like the Americans pushing the Russians into the Chinese lap, the Chinese nudged us to the QUAD, COMCASA, LEMOA, and BECA .
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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'Ours mustn't be era of war': Quad echoes PM on Ukraine - Sachin Parashar, ToI
PM Narendra Modi and other Quad leaders – US President Joe Biden, Japan PM Fumio Kishida and his Australian counterpart Albanese – for the first time in a Quad Leaders’ Joint Statement together explicitly expressed their ``deep concern’’ over the war raging in Ukraine, while mourning what they called its terrible and tragic humanitarian consequences.

Recalling Modi’s remark to President Vladimir Putin last year, the leaders said ``conscious that ours must not be an era of war, we remain committed to dialogue and diplomacy’’.

Modi announced in his opening remarks that India will host the Quad summit next year. In a message also to China, while reaffirming commitment to a free and open Indo-Pacific, the Quad leaders said they were united by their pursuit of a region where no country dominates and no country is dominated, one where all countries are free from coercion.

The detailed mention of Ukraine in the statement issued after the summit in Hiroshima is significant as India, while still not condemning Russia unlike other Quad member-states, seems to have given up its initial reluctance to talk over Ukraine in Quad, a forum it sees as focused primarily on the Indo-Pacific. The joint statement issued after the last leaders’ summit in May 2022, while underlining the significance of the UN Charter, sovereignty and territorial integrity, only said that the leaders discussed their respective responses to the conflict in Ukraine and the ``ongoing tragic humanitarian crisis’’. The statement issued after the summit on Saturday also described the threat of use of nuclear weapons as serious and inadmissible.

``We stand for adherence to international law, peaceful resolution of disputes and respect for principles of the UN Charter, including territorial integrity and sovereignty of all states. In this context, today we express our deep concern over the war raging in Ukraine and mourn its terrible and tragic humanitarian consequences,’’ said the joint statement, while expressing support for a comprehensive, just and lasting peace consistent with the UN Charter.

Modi in his remarks at the summit emphasized on the importance of consolidating Quad’s constructive agenda and delivering tangible outcomes for the region. The summit reiterated its condemnation of terrorism in all its forms and manifestation, including cross-border terrorism, and its call for bringing the perpetrators of terror attacks like 26/11 and Pathankot airbase attack to justice.

Amid China’s continued assertiveness in the region, Quad also opposed strongly opposed ``destabilising or unilateral actions’’ that seek to change the status quo by force or coercion in the joint statement. It emphasised the importance of adherence to international law, particularly as reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and the maintenance of freedom of navigation and overflight, in addressing challenges to the maritime rules-based order, including those in the East and South China Seas.

``We express serious concern at the militarisation of disputed features, the dangerous use of coastguard and maritime militia vessels, and efforts to disrupt other countries’ offshore resource exploitation activities. We emphasise that disputes should be resolved peacefully and in accordance with international law, without threat or use of force,’’ said the joint statement.

The summit also saw announcement about several initiatives in areas like clean energy, cable connectivity and resilience and infrastructure.

``Guided by their vision for a free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific, they reiterated the importance of upholding the principles of sovereignty, territorial integrity and peaceful resolution of disputes,’’ said the government in a statement. A Quad Leaders’ Vision Statement – Enduring Partners for the Indo-Pacific - which articulates their ``principled approach’’ was also released.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Quad countries make thinly veiled swipe at China; slam its economic, military tactics - AFP
Excerpts
In their statement, they stressed the Quad's support for infrastructure improvements across the vast Asia-Pacific region, while saying, in another apparent dig at China, that they wanted to assist such investments but would "not impose unsustainable debt burdens" on recipients of assistance.

Among the projects the Quad leaders highlighted was the "urgent need to support quality undersea cable networks in the Indo-Pacific, which are key to global growth and prosperity." They announced a partnership aiming to draw on their countries' expertise in the specialist maritime cable sector.

They also said that an existing pilot programme for high-tech monitoring of illegal fishing would expand.

And they said they were "deeply concerned" by repression in Myanmar, and they condemned "North Korea's destabilizing ballistic missile launches and pursuit of nuclear weapons in violation of multiple UN Security Council resolutions."
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Quad Leaders’ Joint Statement - Hiroshima, May 20, 2023
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Cyrano »

IMO Japan's role is to ensure India doesn't get frustrated by the military itch of US and AUS. In this, Japan is doing their bidding, its a lot closer to US due to business and military ties than any historic cultural ties to India, even if we are willing to forget that Japan briefly attacked India during WW2.

I would think India is making some headway if we can get US to become a full signatory of UNCLOS, which they still havent ratified. That puts a ? on "freedom of navigation".

I agree that for the moment India is doing all it can to keep this whole shebang civil. And I fully endorse Modi's approach to engage with even the most difficult nations on tricky topics and play the game instead of taking some vague ideological position like the non-alignment of the past and sit out in isolation.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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SSridhar wrote:Quad, AUKUS attempts to contain China: Russia - ToI
This is the dilemma. India welcomes QUAD. QUAD is certainly anti-China. China is India's biggest threat & enemy for a long time to come. China is a 'no limit, no forbidden area friend' of Russia. China-Russia friendship will become more intense as their relationship with the US and the West deteriorates further. Both Russia & India are caught in a cleft there. However much spin some may put on this.

India, in turn, asked Russia to facilitate the production of spares in India for maintenance of Russian-origin weapon systems, which can also be exported to other nations. The two sides discussed Russian defence industry’s participation in the ‘Make in India’ initiative and ways to provide further impetus to it, an official said.
[/quote]

And an opportunity. As long as India keeps the QUAD a non military alliance , it can serve as the the bridge or pivot between the two poles. The world needs this !
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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I have moved posts specific to Japan to the Japan thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3744&start=2080
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Manish_P »

drnayar wrote:...

And an opportunity. As long as India keeps the QUAD a non military alliance , it can serve as the the bridge or pivot between the two poles. The world needs this !
What is the QUAD - originating from the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue - if not a military alliance committed to a 'Free and Open Indo-Pacific'?

What exactly would be a non-military alliance be? A Diplomatic/trade alliance? All the countries in the QUAD do have formal diplomatic and trade ties with each other and it's not like a Euro type common market is needed...

Yes there have been sub-initiatives like the Vaccine, Climate, Tech etc but this is primarily a military alliance. The 'Malabar' series of naval exercises make it pretty clear.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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That's a pretty lop-sided quadrilateral

One of the corners seems quite weak, and much more susceptible to attack by China
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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sanman wrote:
That's a pretty lop-sided quadrilateral

One of the corners seems quite weak, and much more susceptible to attack by China
sanman, yes. But, if the US is a member, every quadrilateral would appear so, relatively speaking.

And again, if PRC can attack India, it can easily do so against the Philippines, can't it?

Even though the Philippines is puny in terms of military or economic or diplomatic power, it has a geostrategic location vis-a-vis China and Taiwan and fabulous ports to compensate for the other drawbacks. It has already lent four facilities to the US in the last couple of months in a reversal from Duterte's approach. In fact, Duterte himself had been 'enlightened' towards the fag end of his Presidency and decided to renew the VFA.

Poor Philippines has no chance and like any weaker country against a giant, it has to hedge and find a 'balance of power'.

In recent times, it was the establishment of the ADIZ by China in c. 2013 that boosted the defence ties between the Philippines and the rest, especially with Japan. Japan had just recently faced the wrath of China over Senkaku islands in c. 2012. The December 2016 seizure by the PLAN of the US Underwater Unmanned Vehicle (UUV) in the Subic Bay was done in the EEZ of the Philippines. The Philippines felt that it was done by the Chinese to signal two things to the Philippines: one, UNCLOS was a joke; two, China had decided to extend its claims beyond even the Nine-Dash line well into the Philippines. In April 2019, Duterte warned the Chinese, “I will not plead or beg, but I am just telling you [China] that lay off the Pagasa (aka Thittu island) because I have soldiers there. If you touch it, that’s a different story. I will tell the soldiers “prepare for suicide mission.” In March 2021, another swarm of over 200 ‘maritime militia’ were positioned at the Whitsun Reef. The Philippines demanded the Chinese to immediately withdraw. The Chinese replied that they were taking ‘shelter’ from rough seas. The Philippines threatened to deploy its naval ships in what it described as ‘incursion’ and ‘militarizing the area’ with ‘maritime militia’, forcing the maritime militia to eventually leave. The Philippines were naturally worried as they remembered the Scarborough Shoal episode which led them file for UNCLOS arbitration eventually. Then, there has been the continuous issues with the Second Thomas Shoal.

Then, in January, 2022, the Philippines signed the deal for BrahMos.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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sanman wrote:
That's a pretty lop-sided quadrilateral

One of the corners seems quite weak, and much more susceptible to attack by China
There is absolutely no way that this "quad" was formed without the explicit approval of India.

Japan, and perhaps Australia, would not allow it without Indian approval.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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Aukus and Quad do not seek to displace Asean: Australian DPM - Straits Times
Smaller groupings such as Aukus and the Quad do not seek to replace Asean’s centrality for cooperative security in this region, but to complement it, said Australian Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles.

Dismissing criticism that such groupings aim to diminish the 10-member Asean regional bloc, Mr Marles said on Sunday that Australia has been “as transparent as possible” in communicating its enhanced defence posture and intentions with its nuclear-powered submarine programme under Aukus, and urged China to be more transparent about its own military build-up.

Australia is a party to both Aukus – a trilateral security pact with the United States and Britain – and the Quad, a security dialogue that includes the US, India and Japan.

The first model for cooperative security is Asean... no other mechanism brings together the critical group of states that are a prerequisite for any durable strategic equilibrium in our region,” he said at a panel discussion on the final day of the Shangri-La Dialogue.

He added: “Asean is a necessary condition for regional security, but the strategic challenges we now face mean that smaller groupings can help complement its central architecture.”

Under Aukus, Australia will acquire a fleet of up to eight nuclear-powered submarines by the mid-2050s, a deal that was announced in March.

This capability will enable Australia to play its part in adding to the collective security of the region and to maintain a rules-based global order, said Mr Marles.

China has argued that both the Quad and Aukus groupings are anti-China “cliques” and “blocs”, with a Chinese military scholar calling their existence a “contradiction” to Asean’s centrality in the region, during an earlier session on Saturday with US defence chief Lloyd Austin.

Mr Marles stressed on Sunday that Aukus is a technology transfer arrangement and not an alliance, while the Quad is focused on practical engagement beyond defence.

“The challenge is to ensure these models of cooperation are not competitive with Asean, but rather complementary, and this idea is at the heart of Australia’s regional engagement,” he said.

He noted that Australia made more than 60 calls to regional and world leaders when the Aukus submarine deal was announced. He contrasted this with the lack of “strategic assurance” in China’s military build-up, which he previously characterised as the largest conventional military build-up the world has seen since the end of World War II.

“There is a very significant build-up that we are seeing with China, in terms of its military. It is the lack of a strategic explanation for what that’s for, and what that is about,” he said.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by sanman »

NRao wrote:There is absolutely no way that this "quad" was formed without the explicit approval of India.

Japan, and perhaps Australia, would not allow it without Indian approval.
SSridhar wrote:sanman, yes. But, if the US is a member, every quadrilateral would appear so, relatively speaking.

And again, if PRC can attack India, it can easily do so against the Philippines, can't it?

Even though the Philippines is puny in terms of military or economic or diplomatic power, it has a geostrategic location vis-a-vis China and Taiwan and fabulous ports to compensate for the other drawbacks. It has already lent four facilities to the US in the last couple of months in a reversal from Duterte's approach. In fact, Duterte himself had been 'enlightened' towards the fag end of his Presidency and decided to renew the VFA.

Poor Philippines has no chance and like any weaker country against a giant, it has to hedge and find a 'balance of power'.

In recent times, it was the establishment of the ADIZ by China in c. 2013 that boosted the defence ties between the Philippines and the rest, especially with Japan. Japan had just recently faced the wrath of China over Senkaku islands in c. 2012. The December 2016 seizure by the PLAN of the US Underwater Unmanned Vehicle (UUV) in the Subic Bay was done in the EEZ of the Philippines. The Philippines felt that it was done by the Chinese to signal two things to the Philippines: one, UNCLOS was a joke; two, China had decided to extend its claims beyond even the Nine-Dash line well into the Philippines. In April 2019, Duterte warned the Chinese, “I will not plead or beg, but I am just telling you [China] that lay off the Pagasa (aka Thittu island) because I have soldiers there. If you touch it, that’s a different story. I will tell the soldiers “prepare for suicide mission.” In March 2021, another swarm of over 200 ‘maritime militia’ were positioned at the Whitsun Reef. The Philippines demanded the Chinese to immediately withdraw. The Chinese replied that they were taking ‘shelter’ from rough seas. The Philippines threatened to deploy its naval ships in what it described as ‘incursion’ and ‘militarizing the area’ with ‘maritime militia’, forcing the maritime militia to eventually leave. The Philippines were naturally worried as they remembered the Scarborough Shoal episode which led them file for UNCLOS arbitration eventually. Then, there has been the continuous issues with the Second Thomas Shoal.

Then, in January, 2022, the Philippines signed the deal for BrahMos.
So Philippines is part of ASEAN and now also part of a de-facto "Quad" grouping. So will this pave the way for more ASEAN members to join into this grouping, to eventually make it into a sort of "Quad+" ?

If Philippines can be part of such a grouping, why not also Vietnam, or even Indonesia? Why not also Thailand? Why not even Malaysia?

Meanwhile China's only allies in the area might be North Korea, and possibly Cambodia.
Nuclear-armed North Korea is the only one capable of becoming a major menace. Their latest satellite launch failed, but they'll soon succeed at that too. What a dishonour for us that they've gone thermonuclear before we have. Makes me feel like we're 3rd-raters.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by Manish_P »

I have never seen so many mind boggling quadratic equations since high school.

Better to call the alliances as QUAD(I) for India, QUAD(P) for phillipines,.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by chetak »

NRao wrote:
sanman wrote:
That's a pretty lop-sided quadrilateral

One of the corners seems quite weak, and much more susceptible to attack by China
There is absolutely no way that this "quad" was formed without the explicit approval of India.

Japan, and perhaps Australia, would not allow it without Indian approval.
NRao saar,

More like the explicit involvement of India in militarily tangible terms

Now they are changing the goalposts and asking for firm military commitments from India

They are possibly looking to India to take the brunt of the QUAD obligation and and also establish lead to accept the net security provider burden in this geographical space

But like they say: "if wishes were horses......"

All these so called "joint exercises" are just to study, verify, understand, and confirm the Indian military's professionalism and and also to study their approach to the operational art of war

our own doctrines may be a bit of the mish mash of ye olde english doctrines, and the somewhat later russki versions of ye olde soviet operational doctrines. But we are also known to be innovative and unpredictable, as both the pakis and the cheenis will ruefully attest
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

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sanman wrote:So Philippines is part of ASEAN and now also part of a de-facto "Quad" grouping. So will this pave the way for more ASEAN members to join into this grouping, to eventually make it into a sort of "Quad+" ?

If Philippines can be part of such a grouping, why not also Vietnam, or even Indonesia? Why not also Thailand? Why not even Malaysia?
QUAD keeps insisting on the centrality of the ASEAN because they do not want to offend them even though everybody knows by now that the increasing power of China has practically ended the unanimity-based conflict resolution mechanism of the ASEAN. The Chinese split the ASEAN through Laos & Cambodia. Today, ASEAN is unable to take decisions even on its internal matters like Myanmar. Of course, the ASEAN-China FTA allows access to the huge Chinese market to these ASEAN countries. The ASEAN countries are caught between a rock and a hard place between the USA and China. Generally speaking, these small countries do not want to be caught in the war between the giants. Within this overall gamut, there are shades of differences.

Thailand & Singapore enjoy a close relationship with both the US and China. They have no maritime disputes with China. The Singapore economy is heavily invested in mainland China. They are also close to Taiwan. Singapore's military has been conducting joint exercises with the Taiwanese for a long time now. Singapore offers basing facilities to the USN and Thailand has a LEMOA-type agreement with the US and is also a former SEATO member. Chinese leaders have had a lot of respect for Lee Kuan Yew and had even adopted some of his models fro growth. So, both these countries wouldn't join explicitly any QUAD-type groups.

Indonesia has maritime issues with China and is very wary of the Chinese in general. They also have some Chinese diaspora and there has been violence involving them before. But, Indonesia is the biggest power within the ASEAN and they have a problem with Australia over Timor. They have strenuously objected to the AUKUS transferring SSNs to the RAN. However, the US-Indonesia relationship is particularly strong. Indonesia has no particular urgency to join a QUAD-type arrangement. During PM Modi’s Indonesia visit in late May, 2018, India and Indonesia pledged to step up defence and maritime cooperation, with plans to develop the strategic Indonesian naval port of Sabang. The Selat Sunda, Selat Lombok and the Makassar Strait make Indonesia very strategic for both China and the QUAD, especially India. There is also a suggestion that India might also gain access to naval bases in Lampung on the Sunda Strait, and Denpasar and Banyuwangi on the Lombok Strait.

Vietnam, of course, has a civilizational and continuing hostility with China, just like Japan. The 1979 attack, the South China Sea claims, China's harassment of Vietnamese fishermen, preventing the o&g exploration in even Vietnam's EEZ, its two disastrous naval skirmishes with the PLAN in 1974 & 1988, the damming of the Mekong which robs Vietnam of the flows etc. are acrimonious. Vietnam is also the most potent naval power among the ASEAN countries. Vietnam also has a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership with China (& Russia). Much before Indo-Pacific became vogue, the late Vietnamese President, Trân Đai Quang (d. September 2018) used to call the region as Indo-Asia-Pacific. In June 2022, during the Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh’s visit to Vietnam, India handed over 12 fast interceptor boats to the Vietnamese Navy. India is also helping Vietnamese military set up an ‘army software park’. We are training their Kilo-class submariners and offering maintenance facilities. ISRO is setting up TT&C (Telemetry, Tracking & Command) ground station there. Vietnam is also flirting with the US but usually under a threshold that could offend China. So, it is not a candidate for a QUAD-like grouping at this point of time.

Hedging is the game here for most nations, except for a few.
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Re: Quad News and Discussion- June 2021

Post by hgupta »

How close are Pakistan & Bangladesh to any of the ASEAN nations? Is the Islamic identity a strong dominant one in Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.?

Who will side with Pakistan or Bangladesh in a case of conflict with India?
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