The Saras Flies!


putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4432
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby putnanja » 29 May 2004 09:42

Congrats to the Saras team!! Great work! Hope someone posts a video snippet.

So it is 900kgs overweight :) . The report said that it has only 5 seats right now. Is the weight over limit with 5 seats or with all 14 seats installed?

When will the second prototype work start? Is it already in assembly stage? Couldn't find much info on NAL site.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3880
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby chola » 29 May 2004 10:42

Good job!

The development cycles are becoming faster and faster with each new project.

900kgs overweight is rather large but nothing insurmountable. The American JSF is 1500kg overweight right now.

The early flight proved that the concept works and now they have time to work on reducing weight.

This is very good news. Like the Sitara, the Saras team looks like they have good realistic goals pursued under firm deadlines. This is what the business world calls "development under and for market conditions."

Academics (and government funded bureaus) often try to design to the theoritical limits. But in the business world creating the world's best product that is years overdue because of complexity is worthless.

Creating something that can hit the market in reasonable time can mean health (and even survival) of the company. Therefore, practicality and speed are built into the system.

The Saras might not be as sexy as a military jet but it could put us on the map as an aviation producer instead of just a buyer.

Watch out, Embraer! :D

venkat_r
BRFite
Posts: 333
Joined: 20 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby venkat_r » 29 May 2004 10:48

Good one. Nice pics also as someone posted before.

Great job by the Saras team. Congrats

JaiS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2190
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: JPEG-jingostan
Contact:

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby JaiS » 29 May 2004 10:58

I have five videos of today's SARAS flight, showing cockpit, roll-out, take-off, mid-flight, and landing, all taken from different news channels, but :o will only be able to share the videos with you in a month's time due to certain classified :o reasons. The bird was flown by Squadron Leader Venugopalan.

JaiS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2190
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: JPEG-jingostan
Contact:

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby JaiS » 29 May 2004 11:14

Saras aircraft test-flown successfully in Bangalore


The first prototype of India's indigenous civilian aircraft Saras had a successful maiden flight in Bangalore early today.

"It was a good flight", B R Pai, Director of the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), which has designed and developed the aircraft, said soon after it landed.

The aircraft took off from the HAL airport and flew for about 30 minutes.

Saras was scheduled to make its maiden flight yesterday but it was put off by a day.

The Bangalore-based NAL has designed and developed the 14-seater multi-role aircraft for use as an executive jet and for courier, reconnaissance and commuter roles.

The twin turbo-prop aircraft was flown by Sq. Ldr K K Venugopal.

The prototype, powered by two American Pratt and Whitney engines, weighs 5,118 kgs, about 900 kgs heavier than its desired empty weight of 4,125 kgs and is equipped with five seats including one for the pilot and an observer.

Two prototypes of Saras have to be flown for a total of 500 hours before it receives the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) certification, which is expected to be completed by 2007.

The Rs 150 crore Saras project named after the Indian crane, began in 1991 but was stalled due to denial of critical components following US sanctions imposed in the wake of the Pokhran nuclear tests in 1998.

The NAL, a CSIR lab, revived the project in 2000 after the government assured additional capital infusion of Rs 200 crore into it.

Saras aircraft test-flown successfully


BANGALORE : Saras, India 's first home-grown, multi-role civilian aircraft, was successfully test-flown from the Bangalore airport on Saturday.

It took off at 8.20 am and landed safely after a 20-minute flight, sources at the National Aerospace Laboratory said.

The aircraft was flown by the Indian Air Force's Aircraft System and Testing Establishment chief test pilot Sq Leader K K Vengugopal.


vipin
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 22
Joined: 09 Apr 2004 11:31
Location: california

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby vipin » 29 May 2004 11:19

I say, Jolly good chaps :cool:

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3880
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby chola » 29 May 2004 11:37

Originally posted by Jai:
I have five videos of today's SARAS flight, showing cockpit, roll-out, take-off, mid-flight, and landing, all taken from different news channels, but :o will only be able to share the videos with you in a month's time due to certain classified :o reasons. The bird was flown by Squadron Leader Venugopalan.
How come they could be shown on the news stations and the videos can't be shown for a month?

Is it possible that you show screen captures instead of the whole videos?

JaiS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2190
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: JPEG-jingostan
Contact:

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby JaiS » 29 May 2004 12:18

chola, my last post gave a wrong impression. I meant that I would be unable to share the videos within the next few days because of my own reasons, not because of any official 'classification' program.

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2491
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Cybaru » 29 May 2004 12:34

Jai,

If you need hosting, I can arrange for it.. Lemme know if you need any space...

This is the decade of first flights for India.

ameya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 55
Joined: 06 May 2004 11:31
Location: Pune

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby ameya » 29 May 2004 12:50

When is the next aircraft expected?
Can anybody tell me how is HAL managing so many projects at Bangalore.
The LCA, HJT & now the SARAS. Other upgradations are already underway in its plant. The ALH must also be under production.
Does HAL have this much capacity or then some of these 4 projects are going to lag behind?
Do we need a new HAL Plant?
Ojhar for Sukhoi, bangalore for LCA,
new plant1 for HJT & upgradations
new plant2 for SARAS & ALH & others.
??

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby shiv » 29 May 2004 13:14

Yippeee

India's aeropace industry is coming of age.

The number of countries who have 4 major indigenous aircraft programs simultaneously can be counted on one's fingers.

ALH, LCA, IJT, Saras - not to mention the Hansa.

Guest

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Guest » 29 May 2004 13:38

the list is much bigger watch out for this space!!

JaiS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2190
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: JPEG-jingostan
Contact:

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby JaiS » 29 May 2004 13:39

Wokay Wokay, I will just negotiate a biased compromise, only pics this time no videos. Videos for a later time. cy_baru, I know that and would already have informed you.

Pic #1

Pic #2

Pic #3

Pic #4

Pic #5

Pic #6

Pic #7

Pic #8

Pic #9

Pic #10

Pic #11

Pic #12

Pic #13

Pic #14

Pic #15

Manne
BRFite
Posts: 172
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 11:31
Location: Mumbai

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Manne » 29 May 2004 14:32

Good show from NAL.

Excellent photograph from HT
Underbelly

My only :whine: :whine: :whine: :whine: is about the colour - or the lack of it.

Nandai
BRFite
Posts: 175
Joined: 14 Jul 2000 11:31
Location: Sweden

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Nandai » 29 May 2004 15:02

Sweet, good job :)

Saras is a very cute looking aircraft, looks like a friendlt kind of chap, you know that guy who was nice to everybody.

Kuttan
BRFite
Posts: 439
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Kuttan » 29 May 2004 16:43

Questions out of :o )

4. Interesting weight breakdown. 14-seater - plus 4 crew (at least..) So, lets see: 18x100kg = 1800kg payload.

Payload fraction of - lets say, 15% --- so, Gross Take-Off Mass (TOM) of 12000 kg.

And they managed to be 900 kg overmass on that? IOW, weight overrun = 50% of payload...

Must have forgotten the 180kg of RedTape and dusty Files accompanying each Babu...

(JUST KIDDING!!)

5. Also, it should be interesting to land that on short, unprepared fields - the prop clearance at 15 degrees angle of attack is... :eek: ??

Congratulations to the pilot. An act of courage indeed to fly that off the ground, and to the designers and project managers for allowing that test flight. Many happy landings, and no Unhappy ones!

Of course, my Classified Observation is that this is clearly intended to carry 5 Special Forces men plus equipment, and fly under the radar to conduct a coup in Islamabad at 30 minutes' notice. The props are for show - I mean, LOOK at those scramjet engines on the back!! And the obvious answer to Qn 1 is: "think specific gravity - of uranium" :eek:

ragupta
BRFite
Posts: 342
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby ragupta » 29 May 2004 17:39

Best piece of news for May-2004. India is Advancing, smile is back :)

Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2146
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Vivek K » 29 May 2004 18:30

Well, things bode well for the aerospace Industry in India. Looks like we will be a major aircraft manufacturing nation! Great job. Let's see what else do we want - the LCA/TEJAS PV-2 to fly and then fire AAMs/A2G munitions say next month? :D

AshishN
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 88
Joined: 31 Jul 2002 11:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby AshishN » 29 May 2004 18:39

Great job done by the whole SARAS team! Five stars!

Krishna
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 26
Joined: 18 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Krishna » 29 May 2004 18:40

ALH, LCA, IJT and now SARAS

Way to go Team India.

Congratualtions to the NAL team and everyone else who played a role for this historic occasion to materialize. I do have a gripe though. I wish they had given SARAS a paint job similar to the LCA's instead of the garish yellow it has now. It would have been a psy-ops force multiplier.

Krishna

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby shiv » 29 May 2004 18:43

Originally posted by krishna_kss:
I wish they had given SARAS a paint job similar to the LCA's instead of the garish yellow it has now. It would have been a psy-ops force multiplier.
The plane has neonatal jaundice. It will pass.

Krishna
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 26
Joined: 18 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Krishna » 29 May 2004 18:48

Originally posted by shiv:
Originally posted by krishna_kss:
[b] I wish they had given SARAS a paint job similar to the LCA's instead of the garish yellow it has now. It would have been a psy-ops force multiplier.
The plane has neonatal jaundice. It will pass.[/b]
Thank you very much for the reassuring words Dr Shiv. In Tamil there is a proverb that very roughly translates to "However unsightly it may be, it is still my baby". In spite of my initial gripe I am very proud of this achievenment.

Krishna

Amitabh
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Amitabh » 29 May 2004 18:49

A picture from Xinhua: click

Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3032
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Jagan » 29 May 2004 19:07


Sridhar
BRFite
Posts: 838
Joined: 01 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Sridhar » 29 May 2004 19:10

Was Sanjay Simha there with his camera and tripod? If so, when do we get to see his pictures?

Calvin
BRFite
Posts: 623
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Calvin » 29 May 2004 19:13

Why are the props behind the engines? I think the Piaggio's have the same concept. Is there an inherent advantage to this framework?

Sridhar
BRFite
Posts: 838
Joined: 01 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Sridhar » 29 May 2004 19:15

There is a discussion on this in the General Aerospace thread.

ragupta
BRFite
Posts: 342
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby ragupta » 29 May 2004 19:37

Well now the second prototype should be funded immediately.

Work needs to start on a 50-60 seater turbo prop immediately.

This will also give us lot of confidence in working on MTA. Full speed ahead on all this option must be undertaken all of these should fly within 5 years.

Without which India's presence in Civil sector will be limited. I am sure options of ATR and embraer will be anydays costly and sanction prone.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4609
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Kartik » 29 May 2004 20:06

yeah Nandai, the Saras is a very cute looking aircraft. actually I kinda like the yellow primer paint instead of that pedestrian white color on the Tejas. by the way, has the IAF or Coast Guard shown any interest in the Saras or not ? other than light transport duties, is there any other duty that it could perform ? maybe an AEW or ELINT aircraft, or Maritime surveillance ?

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 843
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby vsunder » 29 May 2004 20:14

Not only is the effort admirable but one has to also admire Raj Mahindra who worked on some of this post retirement if I am not mistaken. It is sad that he did not live to see this day. He was truly the guiding spirit for Project SARAS.

Sridhar
BRFite
Posts: 838
Joined: 01 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Sridhar » 29 May 2004 20:35

IIRC, he was also the designer of the LCA.

Sridhar
BRFite
Posts: 838
Joined: 01 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Sridhar » 29 May 2004 21:03


Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Victor » 29 May 2004 21:10

Boy, that plane looks good in flight. Wonder what happened to the Indian flag painted on the tail?

Arun_S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2800
Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: KhyberDurra

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Arun_S » 29 May 2004 21:59

Originally posted by Amitabh:
A picture from Xinhua: click
As I mentioned in the Aerospace thread, the prop driven SARAS has only a slight pitch up(nose up attitude)due to its straight wings (that are designed for slow speed), as aginst high pitch up required for swept back wings. Thus there is no danger of tail or prop touching ground during landing or even take off.

Raman
BRFite
Posts: 266
Joined: 06 Mar 2001 12:31
Location: Niyar kampootar onlee

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Raman » 29 May 2004 22:13

Also, it is obvious from the Xinhua photo that even if at extremely high angles of attack, the dorsal fins will strike the ground before the props will. Note that the props are completely inside the profile silhouette, which is itself inside the convex hull of the profile. Thus, assuming wings level, there is no position at which the props will hit the ground before some other part of the airplane.

Arun_S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2800
Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: KhyberDurra

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Arun_S » 29 May 2004 22:13

Originally posted by Calvin:
Why are the props behind the engines? I think the Piaggio's have the same concept. Is there an inherent advantage to this framework?
Few that I can count:
1. A clean wing (least drag) that gives best range.
2. The properller sees a clean airflow ahead and aft of it. (i.e. better efficiency & greater range).
3. Lesser cabin noise.
4. Pusher props (almost) always means a low set main wing plane (thus lower fuselage access, for easy maintenece & smaller ladder). Low wing plane means shorter landing gear. Means less landing gear weight as well as requiring lesser volume wasted to stow it after takeoff. Means that volume is available for fuel. All means more range.
5. Lower wing plane means easy fuelling and visual inspection. is Easy to service.
6. High mounted pusher confign also means lesser risk of FOD (Foriegn object Damage) damage to prop or fuselage.

The downside is that parachuting mission is ruled out.

Sridhar
BRFite
Posts: 838
Joined: 01 Jan 2001 12:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Sridhar » 29 May 2004 22:27

Originally posted by Arun_S:
6. High mounted pusher confign also means lesser risk of FOD (Foriegn object Damage) to prop or fuselage.
Did not understand this point, or rather cannot figure out why the FOD risk is reduced.

Yash
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 24
Joined: 28 Apr 2001 11:31
Location: SF

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Yash » 29 May 2004 22:58

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong, but a few posts have mentioned Saras as a "jet engine"...as far as I know, this has twin turbo engines, non-native (US). ya?

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: The Saras Flies!

Postby Victor » 29 May 2004 23:02

Sridhar, I think foreign objects (pebbles, pieces of concrete, tar etc) are usually dislodged from the ground and flung upwards and backwards by the propwash. If the props are in the back, these dislodged objects will not touch the plane itself.


Return to “Mil-Tech Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests