Cataloguing reasons for AGNI & GSLV launch failures

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Ananth
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Cataloguing reasons for AGNI & GSLV launch failures

Post by Ananth »

I made a proposal to Arun for a thread to catalog all the news items that give info about the faults that might have led to the crash of both AGNI and GSLV. The intention of this thread is to collect the reports and analysis which could be used to further enhance BR information section regarding the AGNI and GSLV. I was trying to collect all this data here but that effort was cumbersome and inefficient.

I would urge the members to use all their BR scouting skills to trawl the web for any bits or pieces of info which might help us in understanding in layman terms atleast what went wrong. For example we don't know the sequence of events that led to the crash of either AGNI or GSLV. There was speculation that cause of failures in both was same: Second stage didn't work. But that was *speculation*. If this thread can help us enhance our understanding, better for us.

Given we are not privy to the actual telemetry data we might not be doing the debugging ourselves. We will be solely relying on open-source info or the info/analysis obtained from friendly sources. This parallel effort will be a good exercise to see how the feedback mechanism works (or not works) in case of DRDO and ISRO.

By no means this thread is retricted to new snippets. BR-style discushun and analysis (non-confidential type) welcome.

So, Om Ganeshaya namah and let me start with x-posting stuff from here
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Post by Ananth »

Info from GSLV thread about its failure

From symontk's post:
After the launch ISRO chief said something regarding the pressure dropping in the one of the engines. I was seeing the video clippings of the explosions closely. There seems to be a fire near the liquid strapons just before the rocket turned violently. The fire I believe is due to the liquid fuel leakage from one of the strapon liquid engines. The leak was so severe that the pressure dropped very quickly which made the thurst uneven making the rocket take a violent turn.

Otherwise if the leak was in the solid stage, the rocket would have exploded immediately. Here the destruct command was used to destroy the rocket indicating good working solid booster which is a good news.

Also the same issue happened for the first launch of GSLV (April 2001) when the leak was in the launch pad itself. It means that the issue has reappeared. Only question is that why was the leak remain unidentified in both the cases. Hopefully this would help the scientists in comparing the data for the two failures.
From vishnu's post
ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair, admitting the failure of the mission, said "things have gone wrong in the stage of separation (of the booster from the launch vehicle). We have to analyse the data why it went wrong".
The jubilation among the scientists at the control station of the Space Centre immediately after the launch soon turned into despair as the launch vehicle hurtled down into the Bay of Bengal.
Nair said it appeared from preliminary data that the pressure had dropped to zero in one of the four strap-on motors and it failed to give the required thrust to the GSLV.
Following this, the vehicle deviated to about 10 degrees, leading to the mission control giving the 'destruct command'.
Why is Roddam blaming the satellite rather than launch vahicle?
Today's INSAT-4C launch failure needs "careful investigation", said Space Commission Member Prof. Roddam Narasimha who does not believe there is something fundamentally wrong with the GSLV rocket.

"I am sure the INSAT-4C failure needs careful investigation", Prof. Narasimha, also former Director of National Aerospace Laboratories, told PTI here. "I don't feel there is something fundamentally wrong with GSLV since the previous two launches were successful".


http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1040742
Narrating the sequence of events, Nair said the lift off was normal and was following the trajectory but it suddenly deviated at about 60 seconds after lift off. Some parts of the launch vehicle also broke up, he said.

"Out of four strap on motors, the pressure in one dropped to zero. It did not have the required thrust beyond 40-45 seconds. We noticed divergence of angle. Normally, a four degree deviation is okay but it deviated by 10 degrees. In any case, we have a huge volume of video data which we will analyse. We have already initiated this," he said.

"When the flight deviated beyond permissible limits, we gave a destruct command for safety," he said.

On Agni III's failure on Sunday, he said, "I am not aware of the reasons for Agni III's failure. Unless I analyse the data, I can't say anything."
From TSS report courtest sridhar:
http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/11/stories ... 300100.htm
G. Madhavan Nair, Chairman, Indian Space Research Organisation, told reporters that the failure was "one of the rarest phenomena." The problem developed during the first stage. Pressure in one of the four strap-on motors dropped to zero; "that means, it [the motor] was not developing thrust." Though the other three strap-on motors performed well, control of the vehicle became an issue.

The ISRO chief repeatedly stressed that the failure was not due to any design flaw. "This event took place after lift-off."

Lift-off delayed

The lift-off, first set to take place at 4.38 p.m., was delayed by an hour as a safety valve in one of the pumps did not reseal when the third stage of the vehicle was being filled with cryogenic propellants. A team was sent to repair it."The lift-off was normal. But after a few seconds, the vehicle did not follow the designed trajectory. It deviated. After about 60 seconds, some parts of the vehicle broke up," Mr. Nair said.

After 40 seconds of lift-off, there was a divergence of 10 degrees of angular error in the trajectory of the vehicle. Four degrees of angular error is the normal limit.
[..]
He denied that the mission failed because the vehicle was carrying the heaviest satellite ever by an ISRO vehicle so far. The weight of satellites had been gradually stepped up, but the three previous flights were successful.
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Post by Ananth »

Now for DRDO's analysis:
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.as ... &id=398091
"It is apparent that the separation of the first and second stage did not occur which led to the missile going haywire from target and plunging into the sea, far short of its intended target", they said.

[..]

"We have some more new technologies in Agni III. We have been testing them one by one during May and June", the sources said.

K Santhanam, former Secretary DRDO, said that telemity data examination would be able to pinpoint the exact cause of the failure of the missile. He said the country had to go ahead with more tests as the longer range missile was crticial to India's nuclear detterance.

[..]

Santhanam said that clearly in yesterday's launch the separation had failed to take place. "And if the first stage drags on the entire telemitry of the missile goes haywire".

He said that DRDO was no stranger to solid fuel technology as many of the earlier Agni range missiles were totally solid fuel. "I am sure that telemitry analysis of the test launch would give clues to the organisation to rectify the faults".
http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/11/stories ... 611000.htm
The propulsion powered by new rocket motors performed as per expectations and the causes into the deviation from the planned trajectory was being investigated, top sources in the DRDO said here on Monday.

"These are complex systems and the cause of failure has to be reproduced on the ground through simulation from the collected data to take corrective action." The problem arose after 70 seconds, just before the ignition of the second stage. The complete analysis of the data might take at least a week for the scientists to come to a definite conclusion. Preliminary data indicated that 70 per cent of the mission's objectives were met.
George J

Post by George J »

There is no point in document such thing unless it leads to an inspiring op-ed for SRR. Unless folks want to show off their fonting skillzzz.
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Post by Ananth »

George J wrote:There is no point in document such thing unless it leads to an inspiring op-ed for SRR. Unless folks want to show off their fonting skillzzz.
Even if it doesn't lead to SRR, it will help us enhance BR section for AGNI and GSLV. Rather than bit pieces like "SLV stage-2 didn't work so it crashed" we might have a better insight into the sequence of events, albeit with inputs from Gurus. When ISRO/DRDO are ready to test their rockets, these bugs could be revisited to see if they are rectified.
Last edited by Ananth on 11 Jul 2006 08:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ananth »

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060710/a ... 458914.asp

[quote]
They said the missile went up vertically to a height of about 12 km before a snag developed. The sources attributed the problem to a “design failureâ€
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Post by Ananth »

http://in.news.yahoo.com/060710/139/65s5j.html
Addressing the media after an unsuccessful launch of the 2,168 kg INSAT-4C communication satellite in the Geostationary Transfer Orbit (GTO), Nair said: ''One of the four strap on motors did not develop necessary thrusts, when the other three strap on had the right thrust...it then became an issue of control and stability''.

Deviation in vehicle's angle was also a reason for the failure, he said adding that the normal divergence of an angle a vehicle could withstand was four degree, but in this case, the divergence was ten degrees.

''We will start the process of analysing the data available and pinpoint the exact reason for the failure in the next few days,'' Nair added.
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Post by Ananth »

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/insat-4c-la ... 143-3.html
Seconds after a perfect takeoff, the 49-metre-long launch vehicle, deviated from its trajectory and plunged into the Bay of Bengal.
There is a video on their page, but cannot confirm if it is GSLV F02
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Post by Ananth »

Ok , some more details courtesy Gerard.

link

Posting in full since pioneer doesn't archieve:
Now GSLV fails after Agni agony

K Venkataramanan/Pioneer News Service | Sriharikota/ New Delhi

First stage failure destroys INSAT-4C mission ---- Two failures in two successive days have caused a major setback to India's space research and missile programme.
TV image of GSLV-F02 carrying Insat 4C, the communication satellite, is seen disintegrating in the sky after it was launched from Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota on Monday - PTI

While the intermediate range ballistic Agni-III missile developed a snag in the second stage after a successful launch, the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV)-F02 plunged into the Bay of Bengal seconds after a perfect take-off.

Officials described the failure of the GSLV, which plunged into the sea along with the INSAT-4C, a two-ton communication satellite, as a major blow to effort to augment direct-to-home broadcasting, video picture transmission, digital satellite news gathering and VSAT connectivity to National Informatics Centre.

INSAT-4C is the second satellite in the INSAT-4 series. A sombre mood descended on the sprawling Satish Dhawan Space Centre here, about 85 km from Chennai, as ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair announced from mission control that there had been a 'mishap' in the first stage soon after a delayed lift-off at 5.38 pm.

Later, he explained that one of the four strap-on motors carrying liquid propellants failed to achieve the required thrust, and the launch vehicle deviated from its designated flight path and "some parts were broken up". The core motor in the first stage containing solid propellant worked well, and only one of the four motors containing liquid fuel failed, he said.

"As soon as the deviation was noticed, a 'destruct' command was given to safeguard the local population," Nair told a crowded press conference. The 414-ton, 49-metre high GSLV, costing Rs 160 crores, and INSAT-4C, carrying Ku-band 12 transponders, fell into the sea off Sriharikota Island.


Earlier, but for a delay due to an unrelated leakage problem in the ground system servicing the cryogenic engine (which forms the third and final stage before the satellite is placed in orbit), there was no hint of the catastrophe to come.

A seemingly majestic lift-off, a round of applause, and the rumble of the sonic boom that it left in its wake, gave all appearances of a routine flight of what would have been the 12th consecutive successful mission for India's space scientists.

However, about a minute later, those monitoring footage of the flight path saw the GSLV taking an alarming deviation. A few minutes later, Nair confirmed the setback. "This is one of the rarest phenomena. It could be a strange coincidence of some events, but we will have a successful launch within a year," the Indian Space Research Organisation chief said.

Nair made it clear that what he was disclosing were "preliminary findings", but detailed analysis of data from all systems and subsystems alone would reveal a fuller picture of what exactly went wrong. He declined to see any connection between the mission's failure and Sunday's unsuccessful test-firing of AGNI-III missile.


Nair said ISRO would try to speed up the launch of INSAT-4B, which is to be launched from Kourou in French Guyana in early 2007. For those who had booked transponders on INSAT-4C, he said, "we will negotiate with them and see if we can accommodate them in our spare capacity."

The GSLV had first been launched in a developmental capacity in 2001, but it had a minor setback when it failed to lift-off, and the computer aborted the flight, saving both the launch vehicle and the satellite payload. The error was corrected and the flight proved successful three weeks later.

In its second launch in 2003, GSLV proved that it could deliver precise injection even when the payload weighed as much as 1,825 kg. And in 2004, it successfully launched India's exclusive educational satellite, EDUSAT in its first operational flight. The last real failure that ISRO suffered was way back in 1993 during the first developmental flight of the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV).

"Yes, it is a setback, as we had a track record of continued success in 11 missions, every subsystem was a proven one," Nair said. He ruled any design failure as the probable cause, as GSLV had proved its worth thrice in succession. Nor was the weight of the payload a relevant factor, as the last launch was successful with a payload of nearly two ton INSAT-4C, which would have become the first in the INSAT series of satellites to be launched from India.

Meanwhile, Indian scientists were analysing the snag which afflicted the maiden test of the Agni-III missile on Sunday. While the scientists are ready to conduct another test of the Agni-III missile very soon, it was learnt here the snag may have developed because the test was carried out for the two-stage missile, 16 metre long and 1.8 metre in diameter, with a booster but without changing the composition of the propellant. Officials termed the snag as a design failure adding the missile failed to achieve the desired end objective.

Elaborating upon the importance of the propellant, scientists said the propellant used for this test was similar to that used for Agni-II which has a range of hitting a target at 2,000 kms. However, if the objective is to hit a target beyond 2,000 kms, the chemical specifications of the solid fuel propellant have to be changed to give additional thrust to the missile, scientists said.

Explaining further, they said the Agni-III, most probably, developed a snag as the booster of the missile, used to ignite the missile was not compatible with the second stage of hitting the target. This problem occurred due to design failure as the diameter of the missile was increased to store more propellant without changing its composition technically known as specific impulse composition.


Moreover, DRDO tried some new technologies including rocket motors with burn duration of more than 100 seconds, fault tolerant avionics and launch control systems. The mission team also tested the velocity of the vehicle that is capable of flying at 16 to 17 times the speed of sound.

They said the DRDO is ready with a three-stage prototype of Agni-III missile and another test of the missile was imminent very soon in the future. Meanwhile, sources in the DRDO, which developed the missile and launched it, said complete details of the test-firing would be known in a day or two.
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Post by Ananth »

Image showing the sequence of events.

Image

More here:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060711/a ... 462952.asp
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Post by Ananth »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... page-1.cms
ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair, admitting the failure of the mission, said "things have gone wrong in the stage of separation (of the booster from the launch vehicle). We have to analyse the data why it went wrong".

[...]

Nair said it appeared from preliminary data that the pressure had dropped to zero in one of the four strap-on motors and it failed to give the required thrust to the GSLV.

Following this, the vehicle deviated to about 10 degrees, leading to the mission control giving the 'destruct command'.

[..]

On the delay in the schedule, he said there was a leak in the relief valve, leading to some leakage of the cryogenic propellant. "We isolated the valve and took corrective action," Nair said.

The ISRO said the trajectory of the launch vehicle deviated in the fourth or fifth second after the launch. The vehicle, after deviation, exploded and fell in the Bay of Bengal.
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Post by Alok_N »

pardon my simplistic analysis ...

if one "strap-on" rocket failure causes a deviation of 10 degrees in a parametr space where 4 degrees is acceptable, the obvious answer is to increase the number of strap-on rockets ...

for example, consider 8 instead of 4 ... if one out of eight fails, the relative deviation would be 5 degrees etc etc ...

of course, ensuring that none of them fail is the best ... however, looking at the picture of the rocket, it would appear that there is room to have 8 instead of 4 ...

I am no expert, but what is wrong with this type of thinking?
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Post by SSridhar »

Alok_N, 8 could also increase the probability of failure. Also, the mass fraction would not be helped by just adding more rocket motors as each additional motor would add some essential deadweight. Finally, it all boils down to optimization.
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Post by Ananth »

link
According to the Times of India, there were a 'series of mishaps' in the missile's flight path which finally ended with Agni III falling into the sea barely 1,000 kilometres from the launch site.

The missile could not achieve its high-arching trajectory and developed problems in the second-stage, the report said.

'The second stage of the two-stage, solid-fuelled missile apparently failed to separate. The test failed to achieve most of the operational parameters set for it,' the paper quoted an official source as saying.
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Post by Alok_N »

SSridhar wrote:Alok_N, 8 could also increase the probability of failure. Also, the mass fraction would not be helped by just adding more rocket motors as each additional motor would add some essential deadweight. Finally, it all boils down to optimization.
I appreciate that ... however, if one is working with failure probabilities below 1/8, or about 10%, it is better to have 8 than 4 ...

in terms of weight, I believe that a "strap-on" provides net positive thrust/weight, else it would be a useless device, no?
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Post by Ananth »

Agni-III failure: probe begins
While the Ministry of Defence (MoD) was officially not ready to comment on the failure of Agni-III, reports emerging from the defence scientists’ community was that they had today started a probe into the snag that caused the missile to crash into the sea well short of its intended 3,000 km range.

The MoD officials speaking on condition of anonymity said that the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) scientists were collecting data from the launch pad and from the tracking stations. After examining the reports, they would come to a final decision for the reason behind the failure of Agni-III.

Officials here said that although it would be too early to hazard a guess as to what went wrong, it would seem that a design defect prevented the second stage from separating. They said that it was because of this possible defect that the missile couldn’t maintain its intended trajectory and could stay aloft for only five minutes instead of the 15 minutes it was intended to.

[..]

Agni-III, India’s longest range missile yet which is capable of reaching targets in China, was test-fired at 11.03 am from the Wheeler Island facility off the coast of Orissa yesterday. It rose to a height of 12 km before crashing into the Bay of Bengal, 1,000 km from the launch site.
Now what is this? ISRO involved with DRDO, so openly.
ISRO today disclosed that the launch of the intermediate range ballistic missile Agni-III had gone wrong in the stage of separation and it was analyzing the data.

Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000. The launch, however, was postponed to 2003-04 and then to now after development of technical snags.

ISRO Chairman Dr G. Madhavan Nair today said the non-separation of the first stage from the second stage was the main reason for the failure. He said the booster did not separate from the launcher causing the problem.

DRDO sources said another reason for the failure could be the use of variety of new technologies. They said the new technologies used in Agni-III included rocket motors and launch control systems.
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Post by Alok_N »

Ananth wrote: Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000.
Mera DDM Mahan !! :rotfl:
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Post by Ananth »

Alok_N wrote: Mera DDM Mahan !! :rotfl:
If the fellows mixed up the weight of launch vehicle with payload, its not too far-fetched for them to mix up ISRO and DRDO too.
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Post by Ananth »

This one is on AGNI.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 721811.cms
"Data from the launch pad and from the tracking stations is being minutely examined. While it would be too early to hazard a guess as to what went wrong, it would seem that a design defect prevented the second stage from separating," a defence ministry official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"Because of this, the missile couldn't maintain its intended trajectory and could stay aloft for only five minutes instead of the 15 minutes it was intended to," the official explained.

"Since this was the first time the missile was being tested there was every possibility of glitches developing. Once these are ironed out, another flight could be contemplated," the official added, not wanting to hazard a guess as to when the next flight could take place.

[..]

"The first phase of the launch was successful. In the second phase, there was a technical snag, which is being analysed. This is not abnormal," he said in Kolkata on Sunday night.
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Post by Ananth »

http://www.space.com/news/060710_india_launch.html
In televised interviews, Gopalan Madhavan Nair, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), said the exact cause of the GSLV mishap would be known only after launch telemetry data are fully analyzed. But sources in ISRO, who did not want to be named, said there appears to have been a problem with one of the vehicle’s four liquid-fueled strap-on boosters.
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Post by Sridhar »

Alok:

The fact that the craft deviated by 10 degrees does not mean that 10 degrees is the maximum deviation with one out of 4 boosters malfunctioning. It is just the point at which the range safety officer decided that there was no point continuing with the launch (initially they would have been trying to see if the motor restarted) and pushed the button ordering self-destruction of the rocket. Essentially, the thrust has to be exactly equal for there to be no change in the axis of the vehicle. Which is why when they use solid boosters, they cast the segments of all the boosters simultaneously to ensure that there is the same thrust on all of them (within the margin of error that can be handled by the guidance/control system).

If you have eight thrusters and one of them malfunctions, there will still be a force on a non-vertical axis and if the unbalanced thrust is greater than that the guidance/control system (using directional thrusters) can handle, the launcher will still veer off course and will have to be destroyed. The control system will not be able to handle the forces due to one of eight thrusters going to zero pressure. It will veer ten degrees off course and more - it will only take longer than if one out of four motors goes to zero pressure.

There is no alternative in this field to ensuring that all the thrusters perform within the designed range. This range (plus forces due to natural causes like wind-based disturbance) is what the control system is designed to handle. Any performance outside the range is beyond its capability.
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Post by bala »

Isn't this thread a little premature. Let us not post articles from the riff-raff press of India. these guys are clueless and hang onto every little word from ISRO/DRDO people who are probably thinking out aloud in public.

The definite answer will emerge from painstaking analysis and ruling out the various probables. Analysis of failure data requires the senior most folks who know the system in and out. A report of the cause will takes weeks if not months. A little patience until then.
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Post by Ananth »

bala wrote:Isn't this thread a little premature. Let us not post articles from the riff-raff press of India. these guys are clueless and hang onto every little word from ISRO/DRDO people who are probably thinking out aloud in public.

The definite answer will emerge from painstaking analysis and ruling out the various probables. Analysis of failure data requires the senior most folks who know the system in and out. A report of the cause will takes weeks if not months. A little patience until then.
Note this thread is not a race of BR vs DRDO/ISRO: who diagnoses the problem first. Rather, we are cataloging in this thread all the little tid-bits that are being reported, i.e. collect all the info/analysis as it progresses. We are not sure that ISRO/DRDO will be able to isolate/rectify the bug in one go, and as you said it will take time and likely cause of fault might change. The goal is to make a best effort to log everything as it happens. If you happen to notice a new report which mentions causes of failure you might not have read before, post it here.

Unfortunately the only path of the info is ISRO/DRDO--->DDM--->BR. This thread also helps us to collect and dissect the credible info from DDM. DDM's job is to report, logging/analysis is ours.
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Post by symontk »

Now what is this? ISRO involved with DRDO, so openly.
Quote:

ISRO today disclosed that the launch of the intermediate range ballistic missile Agni-III had gone wrong in the stage of separation and it was analyzing the data.

Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000. The launch, however, was postponed to 2003-04 and then to now after development of technical snags.

ISRO Chairman Dr G. Madhavan Nair today said the non-separation of the first stage from the second stage was the main reason for the failure. He said the booster did not separate from the launcher causing the problem.

DRDO sources said another reason for the failure could be the use of variety of new technologies. They said the new technologies used in Agni-III included rocket motors and launch control systems.
Agni-3 could be important for ISRO too. Since this is the first time DRDO is attempting a solid stage which is not developed by ISRO. The earlier Agni's used the solid stages from SLV-3. Agni-3 has a good diameter to make it a launch vehicle too. Look at the stats given by Arun_S. It is a 30 ton first stge with two segments meaning 15 tons for a segment. ISRO traditionally uses 5 segment solid stages, which means, 15*5=75 ton solid stage. Combine this with a liquid stages of PSLV and we get a very light PSLV which could be useful to ISRO.
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Post by abhischekcc »

Alok_N wrote:
Ananth wrote: Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000.
Mera DDM Mahan !! :rotfl:
With that kind of lift off power we could launch nuclear strike against the whole planet - with one missile!!! :idea:
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Post by Gerard »

Someone posted this picture in the original launch thread.

Image


Exactly what is going on at the right side ? Is that leaking fuel igniting?
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Post by Singha »

pieces of ice falling from supercooled liquid fuel tanks?
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Post by Vishwakarma »

symontk wrote:
Now what is this? ISRO involved with DRDO, so openly.
Quote:

ISRO today disclosed that the launch of the intermediate range ballistic missile Agni-III had gone wrong in the stage of separation and it was analyzing the data.

Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000. The launch, however, was postponed to 2003-04 and then to now after development of technical snags.

ISRO Chairman Dr G. Madhavan Nair today said the non-separation of the first stage from the second stage was the main reason for the failure. He said the booster did not separate from the launcher causing the problem.

DRDO sources said another reason for the failure could be the use of variety of new technologies. They said the new technologies used in Agni-III included rocket motors and launch control systems.
Agni-3 could be important for ISRO too. Since this is the first time DRDO is attempting a solid stage which is not developed by ISRO. The earlier Agni's used the solid stages from SLV-3. Agni-3 has a good diameter to make it a launch vehicle too. Look at the stats given by Arun_S. It is a 30 ton first stge with two segments meaning 15 tons for a segment. ISRO traditionally uses 5 segment solid stages, which means, 15*5=75 ton solid stage. Combine this with a liquid stages of PSLV and we get a very light PSLV which could be useful to ISRO.
Say it in one line and straight - MMS killed AgniIII programme under USA pressure, by stopping scientists working in one organisation to help in other organisation's programme.
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Post by Vishwakarma »

symontk wrote:
Now what is this? ISRO involved with DRDO, so openly.
Quote:

ISRO today disclosed that the launch of the intermediate range ballistic missile Agni-III had gone wrong in the stage of separation and it was analyzing the data.

Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000. The launch, however, was postponed to 2003-04 and then to now after development of technical snags.

ISRO Chairman Dr G. Madhavan Nair today said the non-separation of the first stage from the second stage was the main reason for the failure. He said the booster did not separate from the launcher causing the problem.

DRDO sources said another reason for the failure could be the use of variety of new technologies. They said the new technologies used in Agni-III included rocket motors and launch control systems.
Agni-3 could be important for ISRO too. Since this is the first time DRDO is attempting a solid stage which is not developed by ISRO. The earlier Agni's used the solid stages from SLV-3. Agni-3 has a good diameter to make it a launch vehicle too. Look at the stats given by Arun_S. It is a 30 ton first stge with two segments meaning 15 tons for a segment. ISRO traditionally uses 5 segment solid stages, which means, 15*5=75 ton solid stage. Combine this with a liquid stages of PSLV and we get a very light PSLV which could be useful to ISRO.
Say it in one line and straight - MMS killed AgniIII programme under USA pressure, by stopping scientists working in one organisation to help in other organisation's programme.
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Post by Vishwakarma »

symontk wrote:
Now what is this? ISRO involved with DRDO, so openly.
Quote:

ISRO today disclosed that the launch of the intermediate range ballistic missile Agni-III had gone wrong in the stage of separation and it was analyzing the data.

Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km is meant to carry nuclear warheads weighing up to 48 tonnes, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000. The launch, however, was postponed to 2003-04 and then to now after development of technical snags.

ISRO Chairman Dr G. Madhavan Nair today said the non-separation of the first stage from the second stage was the main reason for the failure. He said the booster did not separate from the launcher causing the problem.

DRDO sources said another reason for the failure could be the use of variety of new technologies. They said the new technologies used in Agni-III included rocket motors and launch control systems.
Agni-3 could be important for ISRO too. Since this is the first time DRDO is attempting a solid stage which is not developed by ISRO. The earlier Agni's used the solid stages from SLV-3. Agni-3 has a good diameter to make it a launch vehicle too. Look at the stats given by Arun_S. It is a 30 ton first stge with two segments meaning 15 tons for a segment. ISRO traditionally uses 5 segment solid stages, which means, 15*5=75 ton solid stage. Combine this with a liquid stages of PSLV and we get a very light PSLV which could be useful to ISRO.
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Post by krishnan »

Vishwakarma :roll:
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Post by Ananth »

ISRO's GSLV failure probe committee in 7 days
"We will constitute a high-level committee which will go into the details of the telemetry data available with us to pin-point the exact cause of the failure," an ISRO spokesperson told Business Standard on Tuesday. He said the committee which was expected to be formed in the next one week, will present its detailed report in one month.

According to official sources, ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair who is still in Sriharikota, is meeting the mission managers of GSLV and Insat programmes apart from the director of Satish Dhawan Space Centre on Tuesday afternoon. In the evening, he will air-dash to Delhi where he is to attend another emergency meeting, they added.

The spokesperson said that ISRO had not insured the satellite and the launch vehicle as this was a 'home launch'. The Insat-4A which was put in space by the European Ariane-5G launch vehicle from French Guiana on December 22, 2005, was insured with a premium of around $16 million.
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Post by Ananth »

http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/11/stories ... 611000.htm
"These are complex systems and the cause of failure has to be reproduced on the ground through simulation from the collected data to take corrective action." The problem arose after 70 seconds, just before the ignition of the second stage. The complete analysis of the data might take at least a week for the scientists to come to a definite conclusion. Preliminary data indicated that 70 per cent of the mission's objectives were met.
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Post by SaiK »

Image
Up, up and down... TV images of the GSLV-F02 carrying INSAT 4C, seen disintegrating in the sky after the launch from Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota on Monday evening. PTI
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Post by ShibaPJ »

abhischekcc wrote:
Alok_N wrote: Mera DDM Mahan !! :rotfl:
With that kind of lift off power we could launch nuclear strike against the whole planet - with one missile!!! :idea:
Methinks this was a stupid grammatical mistake... What the DDM probably meant was:
Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km, weighing up to 48 tonnes is meant to carry nuclear warheads, and was scheduled to be launched in 2000.
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Post by John Snow »

Alok_N wrote:pardon my simplistic analysis ...

if one "strap-on" rocket failure causes a deviation of 10 degrees in a parametr space where 4 degrees is acceptable, the obvious answer is to increase the number of strap-on rockets ...

for example, consider 8 instead of 4 ... if one out of eight fails, the relative deviation would be 5 degrees etc etc ...

of course, ensuring that none of them fail is the best ... however, looking at the picture of the rocket, it would appear that there is room to have 8 instead of 4 ...

I am no expert, but what is wrong with this type of thinking?
I think the moment of inertia will also shift, because of The strap on failing. Not only in speed component but also in direction component. But being liquid fuel, was ther no feed back loop monitoring the thrust being developed in all the starp ons and make corrections like increase the thrust on the opposite side of the failed strap on.
But I also realise that the burn time for these strap ons would be few seconds and the response of the CS must be very difficult to cliberate?
(thinking loud) or vernier motors?
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Post by Gerard »

'Agni-III's tracking control system failed
The failure of the "tracking control system" of the 3,500-km Agni-III, coupled with inability of the ballistic missile's second-stage to separate from the first, led to its unsuccessful maiden launch on Sunday.
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Post by John Snow »

Image

here UR-500, with six strap on rocket motors but with single combustion chamber.

Unlike GSLV which had strap on motors with individual (rockets) combustion chambers
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Post by narmad »

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/11066.asp

Aerospace engineers are analysing the cause of the failure. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has set up a high-level committee to probe the failure of the GSLV satellite launch rocket. The team is fast finding the cause and solutions to the problems.

The GSLV failed on Monday after a technical snag in the rocket's first stage.

According to sources, ISRO is already found the problem and is back on the design table to correct the same.
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Post by JCage »

Indiadaily is not a credible source..
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