Agni-I/SR: Strategic Implications (Thread 1)

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 25 Jan 2002 09:04

OK HERE IS OFFICIAL REPORT JUST OUT IN NDTV by our own Nirupama Rao.IT is a short range version of Agni-I i.e. 700km range. It is NOT Agni-II or IIIThis will reduce the dependence on Prithvis which need to be placed close to the Pakistani border.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 25 Jan 2002 09:04

According to Nirupama rao, It is a short range A-I missile with range of less then 700 kms. So another missile for TSP

rajivg · Post by **rajivg** » 25 Jan 2002 09:05

Oh yes, I almost forgot. Congrats to DRDO and the Indian armed forces!Now, if the GoI can shut down all diplomatic contacts with TSP and withdraw formally from the Indus water treaty - that would really send a good signal to TSP and the west that India means business.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 25 Jan 2002 09:06

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jash:
Wow GOI confirm that its Agni-1 range of 700 kms.<hr></blockquote>is it true

Mudy · Post by **Mudy** » 25 Jan 2002 09:08

Why they have to test A-1 now? I thought they are already deployed.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 25 Jan 2002 09:09

An "agni" with a range of 700km ? Maybe they should call it a "chingari"...

amarnath · Post by **amarnath** » 25 Jan 2002 09:10

Kudos to DRDO
I suppose rediff's Iypes [hype ?] like persons know this.Anyway Defenceindia.com reported a ICBM test few weeks earlier.I suppose that has come true,we need a 5000km ranged ICBM[ Min range ? ] for effective deterence against TRC [China ]
Kudos,Kudos,Kudos....
Merry Republic Day,
And Mushy dont sleep tonight ,O.K

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 25 Jan 2002 09:10

Hey, we need to change the name of the thread.
It is not A-III it is A-1/2.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 25 Jan 2002 09:10

NDTV now says its agni2

member_3809 · Post by **member_3809** » 25 Jan 2002 09:11

Agni test, Phalcon deal, 5 new ships for the navy, forces fully mobilised..... kofi annan must be having a really bad year with us!

Lets blow up a few H-bombs under the desert to make it really bad for him and all of his ilk. Arundhati Roy included!!!

rajivg · Post by **rajivg** » 25 Jan 2002 09:12

It makes sense if its already deployed to test it as said using the rail mobile launcher system. AFAIK, the mobile launcher has NOT been tested and perhaps this missile has a newer final guidance system.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 25 Jan 2002 09:13

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Sarma:
This will reduce the dependence on Prithvis which need to be placed close to the Pakistani border.<hr></blockquote>
Another critical advantage - it is almost surely solid fuelled. Good step forward.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 25 Jan 2002 09:15

Guys in India: Any comments on the length and diameter of the missile. From the clip I could see on the small NDTV window, it seems shorter than Agni-I. Is it also a multi-stage missile?Also, I would suspect a missile of this range does not need to leave the atmosphere and reenter. In that sense this might be different from the other tests.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 25 Jan 2002 09:16

Jai Bajrang Bali!!
Tor Dushman Ki Nali!!!

AND For GOI, AVP, JFLeke hari Kaa naam!!
Suru kar Pukio Ka kaam (anjaam)!!!

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 25 Jan 2002 09:18

rajivg:The last test in 2001 was from a rail-mobile launcher.Nirupama Rao's statement confirms what it is - a 700 Km MRBM (hopefully single-stage solid-fuelled)

Aditya Vikram · Post by **Aditya Vikram** » 25 Jan 2002 09:19

congrats to DRDO
Wonder what the specs of the new missile are???? And this could mean that prithvi's will be used for conventional purposes against pakistan and A-I's as nuclear miisiles.
How conventioaly armed A-I's to be used to destroy sargoda

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 25 Jan 2002 09:20

rediffs takeAgni-3 successfully test fired "On the last three occasions the longer-range version -- Agni-2 -- was tested, the sources said."http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/jan/25agni.htm

amarnath · Post by **amarnath** » 25 Jan 2002 09:20

kudos to DRDOBTW defenceindia.com had reported an ICBM test this year.Can that be this.IMHO even if it is a A-II no problem,that will be a SSSSTTTTTTTTTRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG
signal to East,West,North and South.

pratyush ojha · Post by **pratyush ojha** » 25 Jan 2002 09:26

I have not seen all the posts but for me the launch itself is the message that we are not going to stop in our quest for the terrorists.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 25 Jan 2002 09:28

news from bbchttp://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1781000/1781370.stm

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 25 Jan 2002 09:31

Sarma garu>> Ballistic missiles always leave the atmosphere during ascent and re-enter during second half.This is true w.r.t Prithvi(150k.m) also.A-1/2 with a range of 700k.m must have re-entered.

Mudy · Post by **Mudy** » 25 Jan 2002 09:33

2 PAF crash in 2 days, And Agni test, Mushy can sleep ????

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jan 2002 09:35

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Sarma:
From the clip I could see on the small NDTV window, it seems shorter than Agni-I. <hr></blockquote>
Sarma, I think NDTV is showing Agni I & II from its Archives. AFAIK, no pictures of the latest test have been released so far.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 25 Jan 2002 09:38

Again you heard it in BRF first.Is this not the missile that I had predicted an year ago to be the 700- 800 Km range solid fuelled Dhanush based on the Second stage of Agni-II ?If you recall the Agni-I second stage is the shortened Prithvi. Thus when the Agni-II cameout with solid second stage, it is of same class as Prithvi except with much better Mass Fraction and ISP correspondign to much larger range.Well my Ballistic simulator predicted the range to be ~800 Km with 1200 Kg payload and a range of 350 Km with 2200 Kg jumbo payload.This missile is thus predicted to be 1 meter diameter around 4 meter motor length and ~4500Kg weight.Cheers

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 25 Jan 2002 09:39

What BBC Says!!!India tests nuclear-capable missile:D 
-------
Jai Bajrang Bali!!
Tor Dushman Ki Nali!!!

AND For GOI, AVP, JFLeke hari Kaa naam!!
Suru kar Pukio Ka kaam (anjaam)!!!

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 25 Jan 2002 09:43

Sridhar, clips of the latest test were indeed released and shown . <blockquote>quote:<hr>Sarma garu>> Ballistic missiles always leave the atmosphere during ascent and re-enter during second half.This is true w.r.t Prithvi(150k.m) also.A-1/2 with a range of 700k.m must have re-entered. <hr></blockquote>Vamsee garu: Beg to differ. Ghauri I of range 700-800km does not leave the atmosphere and hence no reentry.Arun_S: I have to fall at your feet, guruji (from a distance though

). Do you have anything to say about the sea-launch capability of the current missile?

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 25 Jan 2002 10:05

There is no sharp boundry to earth's atmospher. For ballistics purpose, the air friction is not a significant factor after ~50Km hight.The 783Km range missile does gain an altitude of ~ 181 Km.Following the flight summery for this missile simulation:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Payload = 1,050.0 Kg, Number of Stages = 1, Simulation Time Granularity = 0.200 Second
Launch Direction = 215 degrees-North, Launch Latitude = 30.00 degreesStage Event Time-Sec Time-HH:MM:SS Range Altitude LOS-Range LOS-Azimuth LOS-Elevation Velocity V-angle Accn A-angle Force F-angle Effective-G
Stage1 BURNOUT 30.40 0:0:30 25,085 20,911 32,598.268 215.023 39.333 2,470.830 43.554 9.7126 -89.867 1,674.924 -89.867 9.2114
PAYLOAD ON-PEAK 220.80 0:3:41 392,828 181,531 437,698.174 214.668 22.697 1,746.835 -0.049 9.2627 -89.997 1,597.349 -89.997 8.7976
PAYLOAD ON-TARGET 422.81 0:7:3 783,763 -77 783,324.922 214.062 -3.541 2,551.090 -45.232 9.7966 -89.997 1,689.414 -89.997 9.2906 Sarma-ji: Your acknowledgement is sufficent encouragement for me. I am more comforable earth bound, the pedestal of "guru" is too hight for me.

bala · Post by **bala** » 25 Jan 2002 10:05

This is awesome: cannot believe the timing and news. Kofi is urging restraint and pullback and what is India up to, another Agni test. Congrats to everyone involved, especially DRDO. Onward to Agni 3+. With the upcoming sea-launch capability everyone should notice India.There is no point in waking up Mushy, he must rest in peace

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 25 Jan 2002 10:22

As for lauching it from under water, it is more of an idependent capability to prove-out. There is nothing to say that this new missile can't be adopted for the purpose.However IMHO Agni-II is a place holder, the most meaningful long range missile force deployment requires missile diameter to be between 1.7 to 2.2meter, mainly for for logistics & robustness purpose (that makes missile shorter). Thus I await to know the shape & size of Agni-III.Once India has Agni-III with ~ 1.8 meter diameter motor, the missiles become smaller, longer range and easier to move. Not to mention that that such thick missiles are easier to stow in subs and serve as big stick for conventional & un-conventional payload with significant range.Todays 1 meter diameter missile has perfect form factor for the intended SRBM purpose however.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 25 Jan 2002 10:32

India says missile test not political message

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 25 Jan 2002 10:35

But I guess the Message is already sent, and recieved (Express delivery----no confirmation required

)

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 25 Jan 2002 10:56

Indigenously developed short-range variant of Agni testfiredThis a subscription site so here is the relavent part:A day ahead of the Republic Day, India successfully test fired a short-range Agni missile from Wheeler's Island off the Orissa coast, 80 kilometres from Balasore. This variant can strike targets less than 700 kilometres, from a launch pad. The missile, which is part of the country's indigenous Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme, was launched at about 0850 hrs from launch complex no. Four on the wheelers island off the Orissa coast. An external affairs ministry spokesperson confirmed in Delhi that the missile was ‘short range’ with a capability of less than 700 kilometres. She clarified it was not the intermediate or the long-range versions of the Agni missiles. She said the timing of the launch was solely guided by technical considerations and there was no political significance or relationship with any event. "We do not view missile tests as sending a political message," she said. The spokesperson said the heads of mission of the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council - US, Russia, UK, China and France - Germany, Japan and the current European Union president, Spain, were informed about the test. The deputy high commissioner of Pakistan was also informed about the test. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee congratulated the defence scientists on the successful launch witnessed among others by Defence Minister George Fernandes. The spokesperson said Friday's Agni test was undertaken in a "non-provocative manner" across the international waters in accordance with the fully established practices. Internal aviators and mariners were also informed about the test. She said the countries that were informed about the test were told that the missile launch was planned in advance and was not "abrupt or sudden". It was a "well thought out step" in consonance with the country's security and defence posture including the doctrine of no-first-use. "The test was undertaken in a predictable and transparent manner," she said adding that the country's missile programme was not "country specific". The spokesperson said the test was also part of efforts to evaluate the indigenous capability to guarantee a credible minimum nuclear deterrent. "We are perfectly convinced about the legitimacy of the missile tests," she said. India is the seventh country in the world to have an indigenous ballistic missile capability. This is the sixth time that an Agni missile was launched from the Interim Test Range at Chandipur-on-sea since the maiden test fire on May 22, 1989. The previous missiles were both of medium and long range. The previous three missiles launches were the longer range version of Agni. The last test fire under the Agni programme was on January 17, 2001. Science adviser to the defence ministry V.K. Aatre, vice-chief of army staff Lt. General Vijay Oberoi and Agni programme director R.N. Agarwal were also present during Friday's launch. (With PTI)

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 25 Jan 2002 11:03

<blockquote>quote:<hr>
Vamsee garu: Beg to differ. Ghauri I of range 700-800km does not leave the atmosphere and hence no reentry. <hr></blockquote>
Sarma garu >> Since TSP missiles usually blow up on launch pad,Ghauri I 700 km may not leave atmosphere(for that matter launch-pad :p ).But in general ballistic missiles leave atmosphere and re-enter.But cruise missiles always stay with in atmosphere.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 25 Jan 2002 11:13

From Arun_S' post this quote is notable:
<blockquote>quote:<hr>The deputy high commissioner of Pakistan was also informed about the test. <hr></blockquote>Shows that the Indian govt has stopped dealing with the High Commissioner (this guy Qazi). Then, what the hell is he doing in Delhi? There were some reports yesterday in our DDM newspapers reading too deep into an invitation extended by the President to this guy Qazi.Vamsee: no disagreement there

Sahastra · Post by **Sahastra** » 25 Jan 2002 11:16

While i would've been glad to see an AGNI-III (or Surya) being test-fired, it makes infinitely more sense right now to test a 700-800 km missile than a 7000 km range missile.It's all about who the target audience is, and this was a masterpiece in that context. A 7000-8000 km range missile would've have been meaningless in the current context; we are not planing to hit TSP from Indonesia/Bali/Java islands.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Jan 2002 11:23

Arun, The question I have is does this test tell the world that this is a solid fuel mobile based missile that can be launched in very short time.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Jan 2002 11:47

India flexes muscles with missile testThe test on the eve of India's most important national celebration was meant to send a message to the world and Indians that New Delhi is resolved in the standoff with Pakistan, analysts said. "Making this test today sends out a very powerful signal," defence analyst and retired Lieutenant-General V.R. Raghvan told Star New Television. Bharat Karnad, a strategic analyst at New Delhi's Centre for Policy Research, said the government was trying to counter a perception its Pakistan strategy was influenced by the United States and other foreign powers. "This is a means of self-assertion," he told Reuters. "It's meant to send signals to both foreign and domestic audiences."

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 25 Jan 2002 12:11

Just to ask a question. Is there anyway that this could be a possible third stage of the Agni ? Any conceivable way I mean.

Arjun Gupta · Post by **Arjun Gupta** » 25 Jan 2002 13:02

I want everyone to note Pakisatani foreign ministry's comments:[b``We hope the international community will take note of this Indian behavior, which is prejudicial to the pursuit of stability in our region, especially during the current situation,'' the Pakistan foreign ministry said in the statement.``On its part, Pakistan favors a policy of restraint in the region,'' it added.
[/b]
Err you lying Paki SOB what restraint policy you referring to?! You spend billions of Muslim money to send Jihaadees to wage war in J&K ? This is retraint right? Liars!

Nandai · Post by **Nandai** » 25 Jan 2002 13:36

Excellent news, just heard about it at morning news, of course this being Sweden the information was quite crappy.Congratulation.