India Tests Prithvi based ABM

uddu
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Postby uddu » 27 Nov 2006 20:02


Vishnu
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It may not really be the Prithvi at all

Postby Vishnu » 27 Nov 2006 20:04

URG GEN NAT ECO

India develops new anti-missile system

A K Dhar

New Delhi, Nov 27 (PTI) India today unvieled an indigenous

supersonic anti-missile system with defence scientists saying

it had the capability to intercept incoming ballastic missiles

thousands of miles away.

Labelled only as AXO (Atmospheric Intercept System), the

supersonic missile underwent its baptism when it successfully

intercepted a surface-to-surface Prithvi target missile at an

altitude of 40 to 50 km over the seas off the interim test

range site in Chandipur in Orissa.

"It is a new missile and not part of country's Integrated

Guided Missile programme," top DRDO officials said on the

condition of anonymity.

"We have been working on this anti-missile system for

years," scientists said and claimed that missile had its own

mobile launcher, secure data link for interception,

independent tracking and homing capability and its own radar.

"The missile has response time of 30 seconds and once it

detects a target it can be launched in 50 seconds," the

scientists said.

While, affirming that India would still be observing the

US Patriot-III anti missile shield, which Washington is

developing, the scientists said that the Indian missiles was

"in the class of its own".

DRDO did not reveal the contours of the new system

developed, hinting that more interception trials could be on

the cards. (MORE) PTI AKD VSC



"It is completely an indigenous missile," DRDO officials

said when asked if any foreign help had been sought in it's

development.

"The missile has high manoeuvrability, terminal homing

with radar seekers and can operate independent of ground radar

help," they said adding the missile could be co-related to

ground and air based radars.

The missiles which are 10 to 12 metres long have divert

thrusters that can generate high lateral acceleration and can

undertake critical mission of air defence too, officials said.

DRDO has been working on making the Trishul missiles

into an anti-missile system, but the system had failed many

critical tests.

DRDO officials did not say whether some of the systems of

the Trishul missile had been incorporated into the new yet

experimental interceptor missile, but added "the new system

has no commonality with the Akash surface-to-air missiles".

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Postby uddu » 27 Nov 2006 20:06

Last edited by uddu on 27 Nov 2006 20:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sunilUpa » 27 Nov 2006 20:06

India tests missile interceptor

From above,

But Rahul Bedi of Jane's Defence Weekly said India is still a very long way from developing an effective missile interception system.

"It's not easy, India is light years away from developing anything like the American Patriot missile defence system which is designed to detect and destroy incoming missiles," he told the BBC.


Sigh..while we have still some way to go, its not 'light years' :evil: .

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Postby Kanson » 27 Nov 2006 20:11



India claims successful missile interception test

27 November 2006
IHT


"The technology is hard and you have to be working for years," said Robin Hughes, the deputy editor of Janes Defense Weekly. "If they have done that in the first test, it is an exceptional advance in technology."

However, the true capabilities could only be known once India revealed further details about the system, he said.

Naughty..he is putting is very subtly. Not only u frnd..i am too waiting

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Postby uddu » 27 Nov 2006 20:14

Hindu news.
India develops new anti-missile system

New Delhi, Nov. 27 (PTI): India today unveiled an indigenous supersonic anti-missile system with defence scientists saying it had the capability to intercept incoming ballistic missiles thousands of miles away.:shock:

Labelled only as AXO (Atmospheric Intercept System),(AXO-Atmospheric XO) :roll: the supersonic missile underwent its baptism when it successfully intercepted a surface-to-surface Prithvi target missile at an altitude of 40 to 50 km over the seas off the interim test range site in Chandipur in Orissa.

"It is a new missile and not part of country's Integrated Guided Missile programme," top DRDO officials said on the condition of anonymity.

"We have been working on this anti-missile system for years," scientists said and claimed that missile had its own mobile launcher, secure data link for interception, independent tracking and homing capability and its own radar.

"The missile has response time of 30 seconds and once it detects a target it can be launched in 50 seconds," the scientists said.

While, affirming that India would still be observing the US Patriot-III anti missile shield, which Washington is developing, the scientists said that the Indian missiles was "in the class of its own".

DRDO did not reveal the contours of the new system developed, hinting that more interception trials could be on the cards.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=432771

"It is completely an indigenous missile," DRDO officials said

"The missile has high manoeuvrability, terminal homing with radar seekers and can operate independent of ground radar help," they said adding the missile could be co-related to ground and air based radars.

The missiles which are 10 to 12 metres long have divert thrusters that can generate high lateral acceleration and can undertake critical mission of air defence too(ALONG WITH Missile Defence), officials said.

"the new system has no commonality with the Akash surface-to-air missiles".

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Postby Kanson » 27 Nov 2006 20:26

Anabhaya wrote:
Sudhir wrote:Anyone recall the picture of the Pritivi version with the modified nose cone? Posted about 3 years ago from the MOD annual report.


This is the picture.


This pic was published in 1999-2000 edition of MoD reports

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Postby Bala_R » 27 Nov 2006 20:29

India tests missile interceptor

But Rahul Bedi of Jane's Defence Weekly said India is still a very long way from developing an effective missile interception system.

"It's not easy, India is light years away from developing anything like the American Patriot missile defence system which is designed to detect and destroy incoming missiles," he told the BBC.


This Bedi fellow always tries to degrade India to the maximum possible. I don't know why he has to do this. I can understand the first paragraph, bul it is not "light years away" for something like Patriot.

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Postby akutcher » 27 Nov 2006 20:34

More evidence to prove that its not an Arrow derivative....... its a much bigger missile probably in the class of Russian 40N6 being developed for the S400 system

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Postby Amitabh » 27 Nov 2006 20:45

It's probably called an Exoatmospheric Atmospheric System, not an "AXO Atmospheric Intercept System".

On the other hand, the exosphere is more than 600km above sea level while this test occurred 40-50km above sea level. Answers, answers...

Raytheon's ground-launched hit-to-kill exosphere vehicle uses infrared guidance, btw.

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Postby Kanson » 27 Nov 2006 20:54

Amitabh wrote:It's probably called an Exoatmospheric Atmospheric System, not an "AXO Atmospheric Intercept System".

On the other hand, the exosphere is more than 600km above sea level while this test occurred 40-50km above sea level. Answers, answers...

Raytheon's ground-launched hit-to-kill exosphere vehicle uses infrared guidance, btw.


If the interception is above 100 km, it is called exo... It is believed that 99% mass of atmosphere (i.e. Air) is below 100 Km

As usual, our reporters mixed >100km range reported in another article for ABM with 100km altitude.

Note: Arrow-II with 90 km range has altitude of 50 km. Its interception altitude is between 8km - 40/50 km

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 21:10

Just saw the intercept video.It was a boost phase /commencement of cruise phase intercept .Three seperate explossions could be clearly seen which happened while the prthvi target missile was still climbing on vertical mode and not very high altitude since could be seen from the ground quite clearly.The interceptor msile came in a flater trajectory which crossed the target missile almost at right angles and its contrail could be sen clearly even after the target prthvi was broken up in three distinct sections . First may be actual point looks like close two the rocket motor and one obviously diintegration of the fuel tank and third one the top one may be discharge of the kill vehicle smoke trail from the interceptor booster All the debris from target missile or prithvi fell almost vertically as seen in number of smaller smoke trails comming down at the moment of intercept .A classic employemnt of high kinetic energy particles hitting over the entire missile body making it disintegrate .

The flight profile of the interceptor missile and the the intercept altitude and phase of intercept all clearly points and confirms one thing this is definitely one of the most advanced anti missile missile in the world today.If you go by existing known misiles it can be only arrow 2 and if it is fully indian then oh boy -i salute the drdo team in all humility

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Postby bhavin » 27 Nov 2006 21:17

It is safe to say that we can ignore Rahul Bedi and not tie ourselves in knots over his statements. Just as we get a good laugh with mushy same way we can take rahul bedi as a comedian who has a rare disease called "bothholes speakitis".

As an aside, "being light years away" is just an expression (Hyperbole) used to convey something that will still take some time - it should not be taken literally.

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Postby R Sharma » 27 Nov 2006 21:23

Yugandhar wrote::-?
isn`t "lightyear" a measure of distance rather than time?????


He meant it as a distance... India cannot shootdown something lightyears away yet... which is fine with me... 100 km is good enough to start off with.

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Postby joy_roy » 27 Nov 2006 21:24

is it just me or some folks here are trying to suggest it was an ARROW-II testing? in that case...IMHO..this is not tsp where they smuggle ding dongs and claim them as desi..neither its smarty pants chicomland..where they tinker a lil with phoren stuffs and give em a new name and claim em as their own...its our stupid old INDIA onleeee....as much as it may suck..we DONT DO stuffs like that.so if DRDO...MoD says its a desi achievement lets not doubt it.on the other hand...if its only me...consider the post as an effect of barrage of wills classics. :D

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Postby joy_roy » 27 Nov 2006 21:25

is it just me or some folks here are trying to suggest it was an ARROW-II testing? in that case...IMHO..this is not tsp where they smuggle ding dongs and claim them as desi..neither its smarty pants chicomland..where they tinker a lil with phoren stuffs and give em a new name and claim em as their own...its our stupid old INDIA onleeee....as much as it may suck..we DONT DO stuffs like that.so if DRDO...MoD says its a desi achievement lets not doubt it.on the other hand...if its only me...consider the post as an effect of barrage of wills classics. :D

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Postby Kumar » 27 Nov 2006 21:27

It is a "humble-pie day" at the Indian Express.

To be followed by "return your lifafas day".

Just to reminisce:

Indian Express Editorial: Gunning for change

Instead of a pragmatic strategy to enhance national capabilities in research and development through international collaboration, the DRDO has tried to reinvent the wheel in the name of self-reliance.

At the same time, it has packaged licensed production of foreign systems and domestic manufacture of primitive missiles like the Prithvi :P as great national achievements.

Worse still, an ossified DRDO and obsolescent public sector defence production units are in no position to take advantage of the huge new opportunities that await them amidst the unfolding globalisation of the world’s defence industry.

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Postby shyamd » 27 Nov 2006 21:35

The interceptor missile, which was in anti-missile mode, was not not indentified by the DRDO officials who said "the interceptor missile had inertial guidance mid-course and active-seeker guidance in its terminal phase".

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Postby Lkawamoto » 27 Nov 2006 21:36

Bala_R wrote:India tests missile interceptor

But Rahul Bedi of Jane's Defence Weekly said India is still a very long way from developing an effective missile interception system.

"It's not easy, India is light years away from developing anything like the American Patriot missile defence system which is designed to detect and destroy incoming missiles," he told the BBC.


This Bedi fellow always tries to degrade India to the maximum possible. I don't know why he has to do this. I can understand the first paragraph, bul it is not "light years away" for something like Patriot.


(about india being many years away to get patriot-like capability)
if he is wrong then world will have mis-information about india capability, if he is right then you should not complain about him, so end the debate and let reporters do reporting and stop looking for glory from all tom-dick-and-paki you have nothing to worry about

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Postby Ankit Desai » 27 Nov 2006 21:43

Can we say it second co-development with Russia after Brahmos!? and whats the name?

"It is a new missile and not part of country's Integrated Guided Missile programme," top DRDO officials said on the condition of anonymity. "



In past many times MP asked in parliament about missile programs why didnt MOD give any reply about such program?! So, sagrika is comin in few years?!!?

Ankit

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Postby John Snow » 27 Nov 2006 21:44

The likes of Rahul Bedi are coconuts, ooper se brown under se gora.

If Gora cant do India cant do is the motto of such. I give him credit he is consistent to his pay masters

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Postby Kumar » 27 Nov 2006 21:46

This missile interception does appear to be a big deal.

Which leads me to a conspiracy theory that lifafa wielders probably had enough intelligence input regarding the plan to collide two 'prithvis', and lifafa wielders perhaps had confidence that the interception test with such 'primitive' missiles would fail.

Indian Express opeds were just laying the groundwork. Imagine the diwali at Indian Express, if DRDO had walked into such a big booboo right after the righteous Indian Al-Expresssatians had barked themselves hoarse forewarning the nation against a defunct DRDO.

First I had thought that naughty little Sagarika had bitten someone important. Thus causing the diarrhea of Indian Express opeds. But may be it was the interceptor that knocked-up someone important.

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Postby shyamd » 27 Nov 2006 21:54

The US media
[quote]However, the true capabilities could only be known once India revealed more details about the system, he said.

Most of the technology was home grown and was “validated through this successful mission,â€

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Postby pauldevis » 27 Nov 2006 22:05

This test is a big jhapad on the face of the Indian Express, especially after they had their week long sledging effort against DRDO.
Bad day for Rahul Bedi and Co.

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Postby Arun_S » 27 Nov 2006 22:18

pauldevis wrote:This test is a big jhapad on the face of the Indian Express, especially after they had their week long sledging effort against DRDO.
Bad day for Rahul Bedi and Co.
Also a bad day for Neelam Mathews of Aviation Week & Space Technology :twisted:

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Postby Sudhir » 27 Nov 2006 22:25

Expect Unkil to approve the transfer of the Arrow or PAC-III missile system in the next few months.... them Injuns can't be allowed to make their own arrows now can they...
Last edited by Sudhir on 27 Nov 2006 22:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 22:25

The video clip was on 8 o clock dd news .I did not have time jump out and start the reccorder just watching trying to remember.Waited for the news at nine but that video was yanked off .So tried to describe it as impartially as possible of what i saw .Prthvi they showed right from launch but not the interceptor missile which could be seen only for 2/3 seconds after the impact moving away fast deflected away from the impact zone while three distinct smoke white smoke balls formed on the probable location of of the target missile

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Postby saip » 27 Nov 2006 22:28

Not so fast. Tomorrow I am sure they will claim that this missile is not Prithvi and not developed by DRDO or if developed by DRDO it had lot of foriegn input and that is what they have been recommending all along, blah blah blah!

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Postby fanne » 27 Nov 2006 22:29

Thanks,
Arun.

So in my limited understanding, it is futile to argue what the interception missile was, could be Prithvi or anything else. But nevertheless, interception in the first attempt is a very big deal. Kudos DRDO.

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Postby Arun_S » 27 Nov 2006 22:37

As I suspected this DRDO motor was for this ABM interceptor. The thing is 6 meter long, ~0.7m diameter and made of maraging steel for very high burn rate (thus acceleration). Just a single stage ABM version with 100Kg payload will reach Mach12 at 40Km altitude when fired at 60 degree elevation.

http://www.drdo.com/pub/techfocus/oct2001/propulsion.htm
Oct 2001.
Large Size Solid Booster

DRDO has developed a state-of-the-art case-bonded HTPB-based composite propellantLarge Size Solid Booster with low burn rate of 4.3 mm/s at 50 KSC. This solid propellant rocket motor (dia 740/620 mm, length 6 m), made of 250 grade maraging steel, consists of a composite nozzle with metallic backup and lined with carbon phenolic liners. The motor is capable of generating 16 ton thrust for 38 s duration. Pyrogen igniter developed by DRDO has been successfully used for the first time for this motor.
Image


Looks like this ABM project was sanctioned after the red line was crossed of Chinese arming of Pakistan that resulted in Pukis getting Chinese nukes and Pukis testing Ghauri in 1998. India decided to go the whole 9 yards with POK-II/Shakti series of nuke tests and launch of Agni-II and this ABM missile.

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 22:46

And one last thing arun -the interceptor missile had a very thin smoke trail compared to prthvi . I am just trying to locate an arrow 2 videp of actual intercept that may make the case some what clear

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Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Nov 2006 22:50

Let us see what was required for this missile:-

The radar, FCC, Communication center could perhaps be imported but the point is - whether the missile is indigenous or it is just a secretely imported or assembled Arrow-2-3.


The DRDO has not built any active radar sensor till date, now directly a ABM missile sensor! seems like a big deal, but then why not?

There is nothing to show that DRDO has mastered lateral thrusters or TVC but then why not?


There is nothing to show that DRDO has mastered high quality actuators, super quality proximity and fast acting fuse etc or even complicated sensor software but then things can always work out, can it not?

All in all this one hell of a huge news if it is an indigenous missile!!!

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Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Nov 2006 22:54

The payload should be much heavier if we consider the sensor package and larger warhead, not to mention the lateral thrusters. Some of the aforesaid news even talks about an 10-12m length missile.

I think it would be more realistic to take the payload of 250-300kg

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Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Nov 2006 23:01

Hi Arun

If the P-2 was flying for 170-175 seconds and at the height of 50km at that time then can you calcuate what would be the speed of the target missile at that time?

Also assuming interceptor missile was faster then it will also give us the estimate of its speed if it was supposed to be the motor you described and would have been flying for 110 seconds

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Postby shyamd » 27 Nov 2006 23:03

NDTV showed a small clip. showed seperately Prithvi launching and then after the missile hit the Prithvi. But I am no Missile specialist, so analysts might want to watch NDTV for that clip.

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Postby Kanson » 27 Nov 2006 23:06

I think burn rate will not change with the payload. I dont know what makes you to hold on to this one displayed some 6 yrs ago.

And, if possible, pls send the presentation on ABM.

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Postby Tilak » 27 Nov 2006 23:08

Just saw the same[ie. launch] on DD News Livewebcast.
[b]
Last edited by Tilak on 28 Nov 2006 00:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ramana » 27 Nov 2006 23:16

Google Links on latest test

Many important details in the news reports but buried due to misapprehension of the facts by the reporters. What is needed is to collate the PTI and Hindu news reports as they have most details.

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Postby abhischekcc » 27 Nov 2006 23:18

This government is growing balls. This missile test is a kick on Hu's backside. Just when he left India. The ABM missile was tested to tell the Chicaps and Pakis that their missiles now have lesser ability to penetrate India, lessens our threat factor, and most importantly, tells the troublesome duo that the efficacy of their systems is now under question.
Last edited by abhischekcc on 27 Nov 2006 23:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Cybaru » 27 Nov 2006 23:24

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00 ... 130311.htm


First test of Sagarika cruise missile next year

New Delhi, Nov 13. (PTI): Sagarika, India's first submarine-launched nuclear-capable cruise missile, will be ready for flight trials by early next year, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) sources said.

The turbo-jet powered, vertically launched cruise missile with a range of 700 nautical miles and capable of delivering a 500-kg warhead, is being developed by DRDO with Israeli assistance. India is simultaneously seeking to rope in European missile firms for the project that is being kept under wraps.

The sources said the missile's first prototype, incorporating a solid fuel booster, should be ready for a test flight by early 2008.

At the same time, the DRDO is continuing the development of the submarine-launched version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile developed jointly with Russia.

The development of these two missiles, which will turn India into only the world's fifth power with such a capability, appears to be the silver lining in the country's missile programme that has been plagued by long delays and huge cost overruns.


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