India tests Prithvi based ABM-2

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Postby Sudhir » 29 Nov 2006 04:04

Didn't N^3 use to postulate that Akash design is an overkill for a SAM and could be used for an ABM due to its ramjet design...

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Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2006 04:08

Editorial in Deccan Chronicle, 29 Nov., 2006
Clash of the Prithvis

Monday’s successful surface-to-surface Prithvi II missile interception over the Bay of Bengal is a morale booster for the scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation which suffered the mortification recently of having to shut down its Trishul project. By ensuring the operation’s success, the DRDO has safeguarded the viability and credibility of the prestigious integrated guided missile development programme and has secured the much-needed confidence to proceed with trial tests of the long-range (3,000 kms) surface to surface Agni III. The gains from Monday’s operation are many. India is now poised to develop an indigenous anti-missile shield, a prime defence requirement now because of the much expanded presence of nuclear capable missiles in the neighbourhood in recent years. India now commands the capability to counter enemy missile attacks.

India’s missile defence system enters a new and decisive stage in performance. The technology that has enabled the successful interception can be incorporated in the country’s surface-to surface missiles of various ranges. Fourthly, Operation PADE (Prithvi Air Defence Exercise) has validated all the custom-built hardware and software for the test. While missile interception has been successfully attempted over the sea by the Navy using Israeli Barak missiles, this is the first exercise that was totally indigenous. The target missile was fired from the Interim Test Range at Chandipur-on-Sea near Balasore, the interceptor was fired a few seconds later from the Wheeler Island, 72 kms away. The clash (collision) of the two Prithvis took place mid-flight, with the debris falling into the Bay of Bengal.

The closure of the Trishul project was a stunning setback to the DRDO which persisted in vain in perfecting the weapon even after several test failures. A search has been on for procuring through import an alternative anti-missile defence system from either the US, Israel or Russia. The DRDO now needs to concentrate on overcoming some of its organisational shortcomings that have resulted in time and cost over-runs and proceed speedily ahead with the completion of the remaining projects in its missile development agenda.



Looks like the editorial writer talked to the DRDL folks to get a proper prespective. Another thing is the Trishul cancellation has rankled a lot of journalists. Couldbe due to the unrealized goals of the prestigious IGMP.

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Postby SaiK » 29 Nov 2006 04:12

in the deployment / operational sense, the ghauri killer must "do it" actually in the boost phase, meaning destroying hostile missiles in enemy territory.. hence, we should have sensors (space, long range x bands, and wide bands, infras and optics, laser etc) that is integrated for A3 specs., and since that is the intended ABM, 2007 A3 test would put us even better, since that can cover from 3500km to 5000km, where our enhanced PADEs or Agni Theaters could deal in destroying the enemy missiles as well communicate to home to launch the second strike (read NFU requirements).

OTOH

What would be interesting for us would be prithvi based launchers, that can send Multiple ExoAtmospheric Kill Vehicles (MEKV)s, that can potentially be in the Roaming-N-Homing mode, using least energy (inertially moving), and later at terminal phase turbo-boost the individual EKVs, controlled from Earth. Satellites would not only aid in guidance, but also communications, and targetting. Large AESA based sats, is what i am imagining.

It would be more interesting if we can sense decoys, and terminate the kill, and perhaps go into a zombie or dormant mode (only draw back being, it needs to be in orbit), but can be reused when in useful-range , and re-guided, or other MEKVs takes up role, or issue a launch sequence sensing more target missiles.

China is heavily investing into MIRVs and Decoys. This is where we need to concentrate.

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Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2006 04:20

Relax joey. Just because fanne is joking about his mythical conference call does not make the EAIS/PADE a fake. Your bet is that the EAIS/PADE is real and not any Arrow. I told you I would pay half the 100 bucks. So same holds true even now.
Fanne just summarized the many posts in this and previous thread and put it together.

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Postby John Snow » 29 Nov 2006 04:23

Great report from Deccan Chronicle, but the tittle would have been more apt if it were

Clash of Prithvis in Aakash :)

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Postby mandrake » 29 Nov 2006 04:26

ramana wrote:Relax joey. Just because fanne is joking about his mythical conference call does not make the EAIS/PADE a fake. Your bet is that the EAIS/PADE is real and not any Arrow. I told you I would pay half the 100 bucks. So same holds true even now.
Fanne just summarized the many posts in this and previous thread and put it together.

Aight, its ok the best is on 50$ so money isnt issue.

Problem is I'd really really hate to loose[hes more technically sound as hes from boeing].and hopefully I wont, my intitution never went wrong.

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Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2006 04:29

Joey son, that logic "He is from..." is an appeal to false reason. He might be a janitor from xxxx who picked up stuff from around the water cooler. And no one who works on such stuff will admit to it. So there.

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Postby mandrake » 29 Nov 2006 04:32

ramana wrote:Joey son, that logic "He is from..." is an appeal to false reason. He might be a janitor from xxxx who picked up stuff from around the water cooler. And no one who works on such stuff will admit to it. So there.

Actually Sunil knows him, hes long in WAB "highsea" and he is worked in workshop there for sure.
quite a few guy know him there ,kinda famous indeed.
very very sound aviation tech knowledge.

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Postby JCage » 29 Nov 2006 04:33

ramana wrote:Looks like the editorial writer talked to the DRDL folks to get a proper prespective. Another thing is the Trishul cancellation has rankled a lot of journalists. Couldbe due to the unrealized goals of the prestigious IGMP.


The problem is that few understand the IGMDP, bar a handful of journalists like Chengappa who have made the effort. The most crucial aspect of the IGMDP were the strategic programs, which have succeeded in spades, as Arun S has painstakingly catalogued.

The Akash, Trishul and Nag, are bread and butter projects, vital but there are alternatives available. The GOI and MOD have for long directed DRDO to succeed at the strat programs, come what may- this has been reported previously as well, and hence they have drawn the bulk of inhouse expertise and effort. The services meanwhile have been cut up about the delay of the bread and butter products, which are extremely ambitious as well.

The other issue is that DRDO cannot be seen to fail. In Indian eyes, the import lobby will cut them up. The US cancelled the Comanche after 6 Billion$. But DRDO stopping Trishul after 70 M$ is not acceptable for the Indian public and media. The services can import, and they have a valid right to criticize but the muck raking on the key achievements of the IGMDP (which DRDO cannot publicize thanks to the strategic aspect) is overshadowed. In such a clime, they have to dance around very carefully. The same holds true for the LCA and other projects.

The media has acted inimically to Indian interests in a far reaching manner. I daresay DRDO would have played the ABM cards close to its chest, but for the unnecessary opprobrium heaped upon them which has forced them to be open about their achievements.

This kind of open disclosure of strategic projects allows the Pak/ Chinese side to do their usual purchase/repaint cycle and would not have occurred but for the churlish and vindictive campaign targetted against the DRDO.
There is a way to press for re-organization and change, or for that matter seek interim alternatives (eg M-SAM) when the original project has a long gestation, but the Indian media has no ethics or accountability (which is entirely self imposed, and practised by only a few senior journalists). This does not bode well for India's ability to play its cards close to its chest. By attacking the Prithvi and Agni programs, the IE series and previously Farce, have called India's deterrent into question, apart from muckraking at DRDO. They did so based on copy pasted nonsense from the internet, and without any underdstanding of the technology involved and if DRDO is forced to defend itself by releasing information about their achievements, who benefits?

There is a redline beyond which even DRDO shall react if pushed. Any org would. When constantly lambasted on specious grounds (poor Prithvi or inaccurate Agni) without any shred of evidence or accountability, they will now start being open about things that they would not have publically confirmed earlier. If this is what comes of the GOI allowing the DDM to act as judge and jury, then so be it.
Last edited by JCage on 29 Nov 2006 05:31, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Nalla Baalu » 29 Nov 2006 04:36

And I am a third-party consultant on Boeing/Raytheon's Gound-based Midcourse Defence (GMD) specialising in integrating third-stage kill-vehicle to the interceptor. I am drawing heavily on my experience with ISRO before my defection to US.

:P You get the drift.

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Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2006 04:43

And dont forget Dr APJ's re-election is coming up. In the buildup towards that, the Indian Left needs something icky to tar him with and reduce his popularlity. This is a much more planned attempt than last time (remember Praful Bidwai's nonsense about "egenics" etc in Frontline?).

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Postby Nalla Baalu » 29 Nov 2006 04:48

I doubt it. I remember reading a report where in Dr. APJ categorically denied that he would be in fray for second-term and made public his intentions to go back to teaching.

hnair wrote:And dont forget Dr APJ's re-election is coming up. In the buildup towards that, the Indian Left needs something icky to tar him with and reduce his popularlity. This is a much more planned attempt than last time (remember Praful Bidwai's nonsense about "egenics" etc in Frontline?).

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Postby fanne » 29 Nov 2006 04:49

Joey
Please read my entire post again. There is nothing to prove or disprove. There is a saying - you can only awake a sleeping person, not who is pretending to be sleep. So when you choose to awake someone, make sure he is sleeping.

It is not arrow and it pure khalis desi maal which is way better than many videshi maal. Now this fact has caused too much of indigestion.

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Postby Muppalla » 29 Nov 2006 06:31

In addition to what Fanne wrote:
The AXO is nothing but Trishul inside Akash but being called as Prithvi. Trishul was never abondoned. It is just a Mask over this AXO alias Prithvi. This AXO is a resurrection of New Trishul.

(In advertisement world, it is like "Ariel washing powder" and "New superpower Ariel washing powder with drops and droplets" or say "Santoor soap" and "New super refined Santoor soap that reduces age of girls" )

This misinformation is required if you are testing such a high profile thingy like ABM. The latest test might be 1000th test if you consider all the tests of P-II, Trishul, Aakash and so called Danush testing.

It is disheartening to see too many educated Desis (with analytical skills) having too little confidence on desi achivers.

Have some belief and faith. Let us congratulate the DRDO folks and it is time to celebrate.

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Postby rocky » 29 Nov 2006 06:42

Are there any cost or technical feasibility studies out there on defeating ABM interceptors? It would be interesting to calculate this from a deterrence perspective.

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Postby sunilUpa » 29 Nov 2006 07:24

[quote="joey]
Actually Sunil knows him, hes long in WAB "highsea" and he is worked in workshop there for sure.
quite a few guy know him there ,kinda famous indeed.
very very sound aviation tech knowledge.


OMG this tamasha has gone too far. To set the record straight, I do not know Highsea personally, but by reputation. He used to work for Boeing. I don't like the idea of discussing a persons credentials (just like I don't talk about any of you Gurus in WAB) in his absence but he has proved his bonafides many times on WAB. He is sceptical, and he is entitled to his opinion. He is not biased against India.

Joey, don't worry about your bet, you will win. If not I will pay it. You will owe me a beer when I visit your backyard next time. Fair enough?

Coming to topic, I found this news report of 2003 where V.K. Saraswat, Director, RCI mentions missile interceptors.


Plans for missile interceptors unveiled

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Postby ShauryaT » 29 Nov 2006 07:30

SaiK wrote:China is heavily investing into MIRVs and Decoys. This is where we need to concentrate.


Not to derail this thread but do you have more credible information on China investing into MIRV's and decoys. The CIA and the Pentagon have been horribly and consistently wrong on the estimates for DF 31 or DF31A let alone an MIRV for china. Anyone? JCage, Arun_S. TIA.

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Postby Arun_S » 29 Nov 2006 07:54

ramana wrote:Joey son, that logic "He is from..." is an appeal to false reason. He might be a janitor from xxxx who picked up stuff from around the water cooler. And no one who works on such stuff will admit to it. So there.
Ramana you stole my words.

Joey, don't measure people by where he claims (on internet) to work, measure him by right or wrong he speaks; for universality of right or wrong is not a prostitute to a person or LM or XYZ. Wisdom and knowledge doesn't come from where a person works, it comes from what a person did to learn.

I know of some who are peon at LM and some who are "awwal" (uno) at LM and they are exactly like peon and "awwal" at Intel, Tata, Wipro, Oracle and Yahoo.

And also remember that person's ability come from what he is, & not from the pedigree, just remember Guru Dronaacharya's disciple Arjun vs self taught Eklavya, or Lal Bahadur Shastri or AB Vajapaee or APJ Kalam.

Take it or leave it for what it is worth.
Last edited by Arun_S on 29 Nov 2006 08:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Arun_S » 29 Nov 2006 08:13

carapette wrote:
Kanson wrote:crapette, burnout speed for Prithvi is reported to be in the range 4 mach. How much more you want ? :)


Kanson, where did you get this incorrect information? :twisted:

Carapette, where did you get this incorrect information? To know it is wrong one has to first know what is correct information or at least why something is wrong.

I got mine from from first principle and also from horses mouth. What U?

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Postby kgoan » 29 Nov 2006 08:17

Funny thing folks:

But the degree of interest in this test in some places is astonishing - staggering in fact. "Staggering" because it's been suggested that the Yindoos have again blindsided the all-knowing, all-wise folk again and is being compared to Pok II !

Not being up to date on this stuff, I don't get that at all. But the concern being expressed is rather . . . interesting - I thought said "concern" would be along the lines that the gora navy types had about the Brahmos - but this seems to be way larger.

Something of fundamental interest has just happened - but I don't get the level of worry.

Folks, it might be worth the trouble, over the next few months, to keep a closer eye on the *technical* think-tank types.

Because it would be interesting to know *why* such concern.

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Postby R Sharma » 29 Nov 2006 08:24

Okay, I believe this missile was Indian. But how much help was taken from other countries? I can believe that the Trishul/Akash components must have helped a little bit when it came to developing the second stage of this new missile X. And more importantly, when is the DRDO going to release more information regarding this test?

Also, how exactly does the Arrow-2 ABM work. Is it a two stage missile like the one tested or is it a single stage ABM?

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Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2006 08:54

kgoan wrote:Funny thing folks:

But the degree of interest in this test in some places is astonishing - staggering in fact. "Staggering" because it's been suggested that the Yindoos have again blindsided the all-knowing, all-wise folk again and is being compared to Pok II !


Yes, one sees a lot of uneasy calm amongst the "opinion at the drop of a hat" folks in the West. Though caught unawares, the '98 tests had a well defined response system in place for the eventuality of a Nuke club gatecrashing. But this test? Still groping for a response, I guess. All those decoy tests and bored yawns in Delhi at Pak's testing must have suddenly fallen in place for the Thinking Sintexes. Same as the feel in '98 about the earlier observance of the "crazy Injuns digging big holes all over the desert". I kind of miss the sputtering PLA spokesman of '98 who said "Whaaa? again?" though.

But for the ThinkSintexers of DC, a Yogi Berra moment of "dejavu again".

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Postby sunilUpa » 29 Nov 2006 08:57

R Sharma wrote:
Also, how exactly does the Arrow-2 ABM work. Is it a two stage missile like the one tested or is it a single stage ABM?


See here

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Postby Singha » 29 Nov 2006 09:02

Because it would be interesting to know *why* such concern.

now if these fora are NPA run places....logically Israel had no part in it and they are worried another "lever" to control India has been lost.

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Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2006 09:11

R Sharma wrote:Okay, I believe this missile was Indian. But how much help was taken from other countries?


:shock: AoA!! Dr Saraswat can stop biting his nails and sleep again (during office hours at DRDO, of course) 8)

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Postby Singha » 29 Nov 2006 09:21

one of the reasons why commies want Kalamji out. he keeps coming up with scary ideas like this:

Chandipore (Orissa), Nov 28 (IANS) President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam Tuesday sought capability enhancement of India's missile test range here to meet the challenges of the future.

"We have to plan for a 21st century range with enhanced capabilities," Kalam said while inaugurating the National Conference on Range Technology (NACORT-2006) at the Integrated Test Range at Chandipore, in the coastal district of Balasore.

"The test range must have provision for observation and surveillance through different stations in space, air, ground and sea. We may have transportable terminals on land, sea and space," he said, addressing scientists and delegates gathered here.

"Time of stay of the weapon systems on the launch pad has to be minimised so that we can have more missions on a given day," said Kalam, who is a former director of the Chandipore test range and under whom India's Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) was launched in the 1980s.

"The range should also have provision for maintenance, repair and servicing of the landed vehicles prior to certification and subsequent re-launch. The range must be totally networked with all the instrumentation and facilities.

"Ranges have become borderless. There will be more sea-based sensors, air-based sensors, satellite links and the large data handling capability with sensor data fusion. Expert systems will assist the human operations in a big way," the president maintained.

"Considering that both the land range and sea ranges are in the east coast, they will be subjected to vagaries of the east coast weather like heavy rains, cyclones and sometimes tsunami," said Kalam, who is on a two-day visit to the state.

"I visualise the range to evaluate a multi-target handling surface to air missile system, which is capable of handling four missiles against four flying targets from different directions," the president said.

NACORT-2006 opened a day after India Monday successfully tested a new interceptor rocket - the first step in creating a defence system against incoming ballistic missiles.

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Postby Raman » 29 Nov 2006 09:26

sunilUpa wrote:
R Sharma wrote:
Also, how exactly does the Arrow-2 ABM work. Is it a two stage missile like the one tested or is it a single stage ABM?


See here


Interesting. Did anybody recognize the paint scheme on the hostile image in the picture included in the above link? :wink:

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Postby Arun_S » 29 Nov 2006 09:39

This DRDO's Large Size Solid Booster
when used as a single stage ABM will be approximately:
    Fuel: 2,250Kg
    Mass: 2,700 Kg (2.5tonne booster mass + 200Kg interceptor including terminal cross thrusters)
    Length: 9-10 meter
    Powered Flight time:38 sec
    Final velocity: Mach 11.5 (3.5Km/sec)
    Minimum intercept altitude: 45Km (that is how long the booster burns before it can release the kill vehicle)

A 2-stage ABM that has 500Kg second stage will be approximately:
    Fuel: 2,250Kg+400Kg
    Mass: 2,700 Kg (2.5tonne booster + 500Kg second stage + 200Kg interceptor including terminal cross thrusters)
    Length: 10.5-11.5 meter
    Powered Flight time:58 sec
    Final velocity: Mach 15(4.5Km/sec)
    Minimum intercept altitude: 70Km (that is how long the booster burns before it can release the kill vehicle)


These numbers correspond to firing at an angle such that terminal velocity is at 45 degree elevation (this also allow reader to roughly estimate the ground imprint when payload becomes active ;) ).

Bheri bheri different from any other missile in world.

Added later: For the uninitiated Gadha-Ghodi Ding-Dong at reentry is at Mach 13 (3.5Km/sec) :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Arun_S on 29 Nov 2006 11:40, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Sudhir » 29 Nov 2006 09:46

Ok Arun, so when do we get a speculative drawing of the AXO beast and its flight profile...

We would like to see it by Wednesday AM for our morning review...(first draft of the drawing is ok)...

Regards,

S

:twisted:
Last edited by Sudhir on 29 Nov 2006 09:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby krishna_krishna » 29 Nov 2006 09:46

I have a question for members , if they could answer,what is the difference between a canister launch(tube launch) as arrow and brahmos and a standard launch as of pritvi and agni.Before this test the scientist said that this new missile will be canister launched.Any specific reason behind that ?

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Postby Arun_S » 29 Nov 2006 09:56

Sudhir wrote:Ok Arun, so when do we get a speculative drawing of the AXO beast and its flight profile...

We would like to see it by Wednesday AM for our morning review...(first draft of the drawing is ok)...

Regards,

S

:twisted:

No Can't Do :evil: . Dont you know that scientists sleep at work at DRDO most of the time? Kam se kam 2 maheenay ka wakth lagega.
Sahib abhi bahut bijee hai, card rakh do, aap ko fursat main phone karaingey. :twisted:

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Postby Sudhir » 29 Nov 2006 09:57

Arun_S wrote:Mach 11.5 (3.5Km/sec)
Mach 15(4.5Km/sec)

These numbers correspond to firing at an angle such that terminal velocity is at 45 degree elevation (this also allow reader to roughly estimate the ground imprint when payload becomes active ;) ).

Bheri bheri different from any other missile in world.

Added later: For the uninitiated Gadha-Ghodi Ding-Dong at reentry is at Mach 13 (3.5Km/sec) :lol: :lol:


What is a ground foot print (this is for the really really uninitiated) :P

Also Google tells me (and we know Google is all knowing) that....

mach 15 = 5.10435 kilometer per second
mach 13 = 4.42377 kilometer per second
mach 11 = 3.74319 kilometer per second

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Postby vina » 29 Nov 2006 10:00

hnair wrote:
R Sharma wrote:Okay, I believe this missile was Indian. But how much help was taken from other countries?


:shock: AoA!! Dr Saraswat can stop biting his nails and sleep again (during office hours at DRDO, of course) 8)


While I believe that the Interceptor (missile ) was Indian, I am inclined to believe that the radar behind all is probably the Green Pine, which India acquired and that guides the Isreali Arrow 2 ATBM system as well..

Posting from Isreali Weapons site about Green Pine.

India has placed an order for the supply of two Elta Green Pine for use with India's air defence system against ballistic missiles. The first was delivered in 2001. The Green Pine Radar system is already deployed in India. The radar system, developed for Israel's Arrow anti-missile missile, is a transportable ground-based multimode solid-state phased array radar, capable of predicting impact points of incoming tactical ballistic missiles.

The Green Pine radar's strategic value along the Indian-Pakistani border is reportedly inestimable. "It covers all of Pakistan's military command centers and bases between Islamabad, the capital, and the Indian frontier. The system reportedly provides India with surveillance of Pakistan's nuclear centers and missile sites


Yeah, with a 500KM range and somewhere close to the international border with Pakiland, you can get detection of launhces as they are rising up in the boost phase (obviously not possible with China if Chini missiles are based deep).. No need for satellite based IR launch detection like US does all over the world and controlled by NORAD..Advantage of sharing a border with a neighbor (very distasteful one though.. if only we can geographically switch Pakiland and Greenland....).

Come to think of it, if we can get a half way decent system ABM system working, I think the Paki nuke threat can be effectively bottled up, since our threats are localized to Pakiland only. China , I dont think is going to ever ever going to threaten India with Nukes, given that there is a credible certainty of suffering massive punishment in return (Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and atleast 20 other top Chini cities glowing in the dark without electricity) , especially for something as worthless as Pakiland and its adventuristic fool hardiness. Deterrece would work with Chinese, who will think rationally on this , and are driven by real logical interests and not some millenarian notions of houris and similar stuff.

For those nuke jihadi wannabes, you need a workable ABM that can stop a limited massed attack of maybe 50 to 100 nuke missles max that Pakis would be able to muster..

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Postby Arun_S » 29 Nov 2006 10:04

Sudhir wrote:Also Google tells me (and we know Google is all knowing) that....

mach 15 = 5.10435 kilometer per second
mach 13 = 4.42377 kilometer per second
mach 11 = 3.74319 kilometer per second

Speed of sound changes per altitude, that is the reason I also mention the relative velocity dude. Thus at reentry altitude of 85Km 3.5Km/sec speed is Mach13 where as the same speed at 45Km altitude is Mach 11.5 :twisted:

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Postby Tilak » 29 Nov 2006 10:05

Defence conference to focus on range technology
Nov 28, 2006 - 5:52:03 PM

By Jatindra Dash, RxPG News Service, Balasore -, Nov 28 - More than 300 scientists have gathered here for a three-day conference to discuss a host of issues related to range technology.

The National Conference on Range Technology - - 2006 at the integrated test range - of Chandipur in Balasore, about 150 km from here, comes a day after India Monday successfully tested a new interceptor rocket - the first step in creating a defence system against incoming ballistic missiles.

'But we will not discuss anything about this interceptor,' ITR director and chairman of the organising committee A.K. Checker told IANS. 'However, if President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam - wants to speak on this, he may.'

The conference, organised by the Defence Research and Development Organisation -, a federal body credited with numerous developments like India's missile arsenal, aims at harnessing the best manpower related to technology of missile test ranges, Checker said. The meet ends Thursday.

In keeping with the time and evolution of range technology, the conference will emphasise on range instrumentation systems, real time software, safety, communication, target presentation, mission planning and management and a host of features related to test ranges, an organiser said.

It will allow delegates to witness various technologies and exchange technical know-how. It will also provide a platform for the vendors and users to discuss their problems and possible solutions.

The 300 participants include top military scientists from India and some from abroad as well as vendors, said an official.

The new interceptor rocket India tested Monday from Inner Wheeler Island in the coastal district of Bhadrak does not form part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme - of the DRDO, defence ministry sources said.

It is believed to have been developed at the Defence Research and Development Laboratory at Hyderabad and has been three years in the making.

It, however, incorporates certain technologies from the five missiles - Prithvi, Agni, Aakash, Nag, and Trishul - being developed under IGMDP.

India Monday claimed that it had achieved a significant milestone in missile defence system and acquired the capability for air defence against incoming ballistic missile threats with the test of interceptor rocket.

Arun_S
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Postby Arun_S » 29 Nov 2006 10:15

vina wrote:While I believe that the Interceptor (missile ) was Indian, I am inclined to believe that the radar behind all is probably the Green Pine, which India acquired and that guides the Isreali Arrow 2 ATBM system as well..


Wah wah... .. .
I say they used Rajendra for which they have full source code, understand fully and can trust. Greenpine is for learning B4 they build their own big one.

Reminds me of a Sant Kabir-das doha:
    ".... . Ja-han kaam aaye sooe, kahan kare talwar".

Transalated it reads:
When an application needs a needle, the sword will not do the job.
Viz.Its is all about application.

ramana
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Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2006 10:25

kgoan, Please do report back what ever innocuous bits you hear. I did say in one of my posts that this test is a strategic surprise mainly because DRDO capabilities were underestimated and the hype was taken as gospel.


Paul Harvey the venerable ABC news reader repeated the story two mornings in a row. Tells you the impact it made on him.

It does change the strategic picture somewhat and moreover puts India in a very big league. It breaks what Kalam calls the sixth country syndrome. For the uninitiated, usual press reports(Reuters) state "India is the sixth country to do this....and that..."

As someone pointed out the chatterati are in a quandary. Cant say it is fake. Cant say it is proliferated. What to do?

Someone will pick up the N^3 assessment and run it.

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Postby Raja Ram » 29 Nov 2006 10:27

kgoan.

This is definitely a surprise for many. From the first few reports it is slowly emerging that this new ABM interceptor was actually developed over 3 years now. There is also talk that it was deliberately kept outside the IGMDP.

If you look back and piece together some of the statements from DRDO elite like Sivathanu Pillai, it is clear that right after Pokhran and Chagai there were some decisions taken to develop ABM.

The then GOI was enthusiastic about Bush's ABM for a reason it appears. It was clear that we were prepapred to cooperate as well as have our own programme. Sort of like the nuclear three stage program and J18 deal. Cooperation will be on our terms. Other wise we can do it ourselves. May take time and effort, but we are capable and prepared for it. This seems to be the message. I do not know how many thin(c)K tankers can get this. But to those who are discerning, it should be evident.

Some of the oldies here may remember this commentator had said after the Draft Nuclear Doctrine, that the focus will be on delivery systems survivability for Second Strike policy. This is very much in line. So it pays to keep a track of these occasional rambles 8)

Prepare yourself for Submarine launch of missiles and interceptors next. It is coming to a test range in Eastern India soon. Next will be an announcement regarding the ATV. That is still some distance away though.

As usual just a ramble, take it for what it is worth.

ramana
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Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2006 10:30

R^2 Lets not get into oracle mode! 8)

rakall
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Postby rakall » 29 Nov 2006 10:31

Raman wrote:
sunilUpa wrote:
R Sharma wrote:
Also, how exactly does the Arrow-2 ABM work. Is it a two stage missile like the one tested or is it a single stage ABM?


See here


Interesting. Did anybody recognize the paint scheme on the hostile image in the picture included in the above link? :wink:


Suits everybody..

Iran is the X-factor for Israel as well as US.
NoKo is the X-factor for US.
Pukes the X-factor for us.

All their BM's are the same missile.. no-dung.


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