Second Agni-III test -1

ankurv
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Postby ankurv » 01 Apr 2007 02:04

Guys - *****Deleted by Admin *************? Agni II or Agni III?

{CAUTION: This kind of information is not welcome at BRF. Please bear responsibility to handle confidential info when you are trusted with one. --Arun_S Admin hat on}

bala
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Postby bala » 05 Apr 2007 02:51

Claim that Agni - III test next week.

Agni-III flight test soon

The crucial flight trial of Agni-III, the nuclear capable long-range missile (beyond 3000 km), is expected to take place early next week, according to defence sources.

It will be launched from Wheeler Island of the Interim Test Range at Chandipur in Orissa. The maiden flight of the surface-to-surface missile on July 9 last year failed after it nose-dived into the sea within seconds of a smooth lift-off due to non-separation of the first and second stages. DRDO sources later attributed the failure to "material-related fault," besides problems with protective heat shield and propulsion.

The indigenously-built Agni-III, capable of carrying warheads weighing up to 1.5 tonnes, is 16 metres tall and weighs 48 tonnes. While Agni-I is a short-range missile of 750-800 km, Agni-II has a range of more than 1,500 km.

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Postby Austin » 05 Apr 2007 06:37

The indigenously-built Agni-III, capable of carrying warheads weighing up to 1.5 tonnes, is 16 metres tall and weighs 48 tonnes


I am really in love with that 48 tons launch weight :twisted:

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Postby vinayak_d » 05 Apr 2007 07:28

THe topol-M has the same launch mass but is longer (22.7m) and wider (1.8-1.95m dia). Why is Agni-3 so heavy??

marimuthu
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Postby marimuthu » 05 Apr 2007 07:33

The diameter of A-3 is 2 meters. Hence the only difference is length.
Last edited by marimuthu on 05 Apr 2007 08:12, edited 1 time in total.

vinayak_d
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Postby vinayak_d » 05 Apr 2007 07:58

Topol-M is slightly bigger at 1.86-1.95 m. Unless they include the fins or something.

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Postby Austin » 05 Apr 2007 08:58

Shouldnt compare , Different countries , different needs , Lots of unknown factor .

I certainly doubt Topol-M uses extensive use of composites as the Agni-3 does

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Postby vinayak_d » 05 Apr 2007 09:00

Austin wrote:Shouldnt compare , Different countries , different needs , Lots of unknown factor .

I certainly doubt Topol-M uses extensive use of composites as the Agni-3 does


I know austin and thats the point. India would have used composites extensively and hence agni-3 should be lighter, no??

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Postby Arun_S » 05 Apr 2007 09:11

Now that it has been publicly announced, let me not fudge it anymore and continue the treaditon of BR first.

That:
1. The A-III diameter is indeed 2.0 meter. Has no fins.
2. It is ~16.3 meter tall
3. The first stage is 7.7 m long, interstage of 1.0 to 1.1m
4. Second stage 3m and payload adapter 0.75m
5. The payload section is 3.6m
6. My guess is that the real payload dia is 0.55m

Let the fat lady sing.

As always BR has the most informative stuff on its Missile site:
Bharat-Rakshak's: Agni-III section

The following article I wrote for Indian Defense Review (Lancer Publishers) 3 months ago, has nominal range information for Agni-III.
Indian Long Range Strategic Missiles - Indian Defense Review ISSN 0970-2512, Jan-Mar 2007, Vol 22(1), by Arun Vishwakarma.
Last edited by Arun_S on 05 Apr 2007 09:54, edited 1 time in total.

vinayak_d
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Postby vinayak_d » 05 Apr 2007 09:18

Thanks arun that was informative. This might be a silly question but what does an interstage do? I noticed on the BR site that the seal launched version does not seem to have it.

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Postby Arun_S » 05 Apr 2007 09:20

vinayak_dangui wrote:
Austin wrote:Shouldnt compare , Different countries , different needs , Lots of unknown factor .

I certainly doubt Topol-M uses extensive use of composites as the Agni-3 does


I know austin and thats the point. India would have used composites extensively and hence agni-3 should be lighter, no??
Pls see the BR Agni-III page referenced above.

Eventually all stages will be composite. But being the scared Yindu GOI and DRDO is they first confirmed to the world that India continue to make old stuff that does not threaten nobody. Thus the second stage case is maraging steel, with impared range. It will be later morph into composite case.

What will be interesting however in this test is if this will be a 3 stage missile configuration (I am not sure was it the ex defense minister or DRDO chief who said that).

Put the fear of Gawd in the hearts of the holy WASP.

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Postby kmc_chacko » 05 Apr 2007 09:29

http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/05/stories/2007040501721300.htm

[/quote]Agni-III flight test soon

Special Correspondent




HYDERABAD: The crucial flight trial of Agni-III, the nuclear capable long-range missile (beyond 3000 km), is expected to take place early next week, according to defence sources.

It will be launched from Wheeler Island of the Interim Test Range at Chandipur in Orissa. The maiden flight of the surface-to-surface missile on July 9 last year failed after it nose-dived into the sea within seconds of a smooth lift-off due to non-separation of the first and second stages. DRDO sources later attributed the failure to "material-related fault," besides problems with protective heat shield and propulsion.

The indigenously-built Agni-III, capable of carrying warheads weighing up to 1.5 tonnes, is 16 metres tall and weighs 48 tonnes. It belongs to the Agni series of missiles and is expected to be the mainstay of India's nuclear deterrence programme when fully operational by providing the country with strategic second-strike capability.

While Agni-I is a short-range missile of 750-800 km, Agni-II has a range of more than 1,500 km.

[quote][/quote]

Austin
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Postby Austin » 05 Apr 2007 09:46

Thanks for that revised data on A-3

Put the fear of Gawd in the hearts of the holy WASP.


Yeah :twisted:

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Postby Arun_S » 05 Apr 2007 09:53

Austin wrote:Thanks for that revised data on A-3

Put the fear of Gawd in the hearts of the holy WASP.


Yeah :twisted:

Didnt only the select few got the darshan of Agni Gwad ? and you r one of the few who knew the 2m/16 m thing. :twisted:

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Postby ramana » 05 Apr 2007 09:59

In the above Hindu report:
The maiden flight of the surface-to-surface missile on July 9 last year failed after it nose-dived into the sea within seconds of a smooth lift-off due to non-separation of the first and second stages. DRDO sources later attributed the failure to "material-related fault," besides problems with protective heat shield and propulsion.


All these were initial causes. The final root cause was control cable burn through due to F/S nozzle exhaust gases which were reentrant in the gap between the structure and the nozzle. The fix was a thermal shroud or bellows. The thing to remember is even without stage separation the vehicle flew over 1000km. one hell of a total impulse for the motors.

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Postby vinayak_d » 05 Apr 2007 10:28

This is a public fora better keep quiet till GOI decides to open its mouth.

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Postby Gerard » 05 Apr 2007 18:51

Arun_S wrote:The following article I wrote for Indian Defense Review (Lancer Publishers) 3 months ago, has nominal range information for Agni-III.


Fear of gawd indeed...

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Postby Singha » 05 Apr 2007 20:15

what kind of range does it need to start from indian mainland and target the south of the CONUS ? ..over the north pole I would think ? we should get
a rugged Topol family TEL to deal with the US because of their overwhelming
superiority in submarines, only a robust land based mobile ICBM force can
enforce peace with US. we have no white sea type bastions to shelter our future SSBN fleet.

let the peace, love and brotherhood envelope grasp all our friends in a warm embrace :D then we might see less of the FBI sanction tamasha.

the liberal arts ex-indic freaks sitting in columbia, monterey or h'vaad would sure choke on their frappe's knowing the love of their motherland has reached out in 'peace n understanding'

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Postby Austin » 05 Apr 2007 20:51

TEL for an A 3 would need to be designed from groundup , To make it an atonomous all terraine type , The Ruskies have some interesting ideas on those , But lets see what DRDO throws up on that to meet our very specific needs

Whats holding the A2 AT , Its importance should be in no way less than A 3 .

Singha eventually we would also have our SSBN fleet thats the direction we are moving on , The vastness and remoteness of Indian Ocean should provide a good cover for our SSBN

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Postby Shalav » 05 Apr 2007 20:52

Guruji,

You should know better than that.

India does not have the technological capability to design anything better than an IRBM, just barely reaching Cheeni mainland only. It says so on the internet.

To get better than we will have to steal or copy such technology from the west! Apparently they also know this hence the reason for the recent sting operation.

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Postby Gerard » 05 Apr 2007 22:25

Not only that, unlike technological powers North Korea and Pakistan, India cannot yet fabricate a warhead to fit on a ballistic missile, relying on aircraft instead.. so say the knowledgeable FAS people...

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Postby Shankar » 05 Apr 2007 23:38

Surely we cannot even dream of hitting anything in continental US with our prehistoric rocket and missile technology .It is true the PSLV can throw a 1000 kg SAT IN 1000 kms orbit indian missiles can never hope to reach 13500 km throw range with 350 kg thermo nuke .So we need US assistance

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Postby Sumeet » 05 Apr 2007 23:48

Ok guys if you people continue to be sarcastic TSJ might take it for real that India is desperate for help/assistance.

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Postby Arun_S » 06 Apr 2007 00:57

Ok BR missile site now has the latest (non fudged Agni dimensions).

Updated Agni drawing

The 3 stage Agni-3++ is a very likely next step possibility.

Note that A3 family can carry at least 3 payloads :twisted: .

Thought Sagarika will see daylight first, the underwater launch setup does indicate that it will host a beast 2m dia and 12.5m tall. ;)

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Postby ShibaPJ » 06 Apr 2007 01:13

Arun_S,
Great... Now, when Admiral Rakesh starts the still pending mithai distribution, we would ask him to start from a certain cave in KhyberDurra :wink:

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Postby Vipul » 06 Apr 2007 01:54

Arun,

How many could be the maximum payloads on the 3++ and 3SL?

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Postby SShah » 06 Apr 2007 04:07

Gerard wrote:Not only that, unlike technological powers North Korea and Pakistan, India cannot yet fabricate a warhead to fit on a ballistic missile, relying on aircraft instead.. so say the knowledgeable FAS people...


How old is FAS article btw? I'm pretty sure that at the moment we do posses nukes to fit into Agnis
By the way don't mention about hitting unkil guys, I live here with family... :x

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Postby Gerard » 06 Apr 2007 04:21

2005 estimates.

And nobody really wants to strike Unkil. It is the latent deterrent ability that is important. A bomb in the basement and an ICBM in the backyard will keep things nice and friendly. Only love and respect amongst those so armed. No threats from either side. Only pillow talk.

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Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2007 07:48

Vipul wrote:Arun,

How many could be the maximum payloads on the 3++ and 3SL?


My guess is if I take the Russian Bulava as my base line configuration as it too has a 2 m dia then atleast 6 MIRV with penaids , But then it would also depend on what kind of MIRV , I guess a Acive MIRV would be limited to 3 with penaids

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Postby Arun_S » 06 Apr 2007 08:53

Vipul wrote:Arun,

How many could be the maximum payloads on the 3++ and 3SL?

Depends on desired range and which type of nuke payload it carries and its RV. If range is non issue the minimum of 3 (I am told by trustworthy sources).

As one can see there is much volume available. The 20-50Kt boosted fission potatoes are really small and many can fit in the base datum. Similarly one can visualize from the plan view packaging of high yield TN payload. I am surprised why I drew 3 when there is enough space for 6 TN?

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Postby Arun_S » 06 Apr 2007 09:04

BTW its payload is touted at 1500-1800Kg. So if the RV is 500-600Kg (3x), if the RV is 400Kg (4x), if it is really light at 250-300Kg(6x). Now also factor in mass of penetration aids.

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Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2007 12:46

Arun_S wrote:BTW its payload is touted at 1500-1800Kg. So if the RV is 500-600Kg (3x), if the RV is 400Kg (4x), if it is really light at 250-300Kg(6x). Now also factor in mass of penetration aids.


How much does the penaids weigh generally ,As a thumbrule if i take a RV figure of 400Kg ( 3x ) that still leaves about 300 ~ 600 kg for penaids .

If we have a all Dancing , all Singing RV and ~ 600 kg for penaids , That just looks right to trouble any ABM defences
Last edited by Austin on 06 Apr 2007 18:28, edited 1 time in total.

Gerard
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Postby Gerard » 06 Apr 2007 17:25

From this MX missile photo, it looks like the penetration aids take up one space on the bus

Image

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Postby Shankar » 06 Apr 2007 17:34

since every one is guessing my guess is agni 3 will carry 3 300kt thermo nuke payloads and they may include ground penetrating types over a throw range of 7000-9000 kms

Putting in 5 warheads will be really squeezing things a bit but you never know how far warhead miniaturisation have progressed over last three years .Still have not talked to my panwalas ristedar from mumbai whose sister in laws close friend sells fruit joice at BARC

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Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2007 18:55

The science of Decoys have also progressed since time , from simple chaff to inflatable baloon and reflector decoys to the more ultra more modern Decoys which can mimic the real RV has the same Thermal and Radar Signatures and can re-enter into the atmosphere at the same speed as RV and remains effective through out the terminal phase and even employes certain active means of deception like real RV making discrimination beteen RV & Decoys impossible.

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Postby Arun_S » 06 Apr 2007 20:42

Please see the even more updated Agni-III diagram, with finer embellishments:

Updated embellished Agni drawing (Image dated 4/5/07)

{In the updated image one should be able to see DRDO emblem, INDIA and the spiral orange band. If your PC is still showing older image, pls flush the browser cache and reload the above URL page}

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Postby Shalav » 06 Apr 2007 20:57

No Chakra on the Tricolour?

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Postby Arun_S » 06 Apr 2007 21:04

Indian missiles use Indian tricolor only it does not have the flag (similar to IAF aircrafts, but horizontal orientation). When Agni Dev gives darshan one can see.

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Postby Shalav » 06 Apr 2007 21:07

oh, ok. Didn't realise that. thanks

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Postby Arun_S » 06 Apr 2007 21:25

Your query prompted me to inspected some old videos of Agni-II, the video quality is not high res thus it is not conclusive if the chakra is painted or not, in the end you could be right.


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