Second Agni-III test -1

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ankurv
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Post by ankurv »

Guys - *****Deleted by Admin *************? Agni II or Agni III?

{CAUTION: This kind of information is not welcome at BRF. Please bear responsibility to handle confidential info when you are trusted with one. --Arun_S Admin hat on}
bala
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Post by bala »

Claim that Agni - III test next week.

Agni-III flight test soon

The crucial flight trial of Agni-III, the nuclear capable long-range missile (beyond 3000 km), is expected to take place early next week, according to defence sources.

It will be launched from Wheeler Island of the Interim Test Range at Chandipur in Orissa. The maiden flight of the surface-to-surface missile on July 9 last year failed after it nose-dived into the sea within seconds of a smooth lift-off due to non-separation of the first and second stages. DRDO sources later attributed the failure to "material-related fault," besides problems with protective heat shield and propulsion.

The indigenously-built Agni-III, capable of carrying warheads weighing up to 1.5 tonnes, is 16 metres tall and weighs 48 tonnes. While Agni-I is a short-range missile of 750-800 km, Agni-II has a range of more than 1,500 km.
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Post by Austin »

The indigenously-built Agni-III, capable of carrying warheads weighing up to 1.5 tonnes, is 16 metres tall and weighs 48 tonnes
I am really in love with that 48 tons launch weight :twisted:
vinayak_d
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Post by vinayak_d »

THe topol-M has the same launch mass but is longer (22.7m) and wider (1.8-1.95m dia). Why is Agni-3 so heavy??
marimuthu
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Post by marimuthu »

The diameter of A-3 is 2 meters. Hence the only difference is length.
Last edited by marimuthu on 05 Apr 2007 08:12, edited 1 time in total.
vinayak_d
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Post by vinayak_d »

Topol-M is slightly bigger at 1.86-1.95 m. Unless they include the fins or something.
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Post by Austin »

Shouldnt compare , Different countries , different needs , Lots of unknown factor .

I certainly doubt Topol-M uses extensive use of composites as the Agni-3 does
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Post by vinayak_d »

Austin wrote:Shouldnt compare , Different countries , different needs , Lots of unknown factor .

I certainly doubt Topol-M uses extensive use of composites as the Agni-3 does
I know austin and thats the point. India would have used composites extensively and hence agni-3 should be lighter, no??
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Post by Arun_S »

Now that it has been publicly announced, let me not fudge it anymore and continue the treaditon of BR first.

That:
1. The A-III diameter is indeed 2.0 meter. Has no fins.
2. It is ~16.3 meter tall
3. The first stage is 7.7 m long, interstage of 1.0 to 1.1m
4. Second stage 3m and payload adapter 0.75m
5. The payload section is 3.6m
6. My guess is that the real payload dia is 0.55m

Let the fat lady sing.

As always BR has the most informative stuff on its Missile site:
Bharat-Rakshak's: Agni-III section

The following article I wrote for Indian Defense Review (Lancer Publishers) 3 months ago, has nominal range information for Agni-III.
Indian Long Range Strategic Missiles - Indian Defense Review ISSN 0970-2512, Jan-Mar 2007, Vol 22(1), by Arun Vishwakarma.
Last edited by Arun_S on 05 Apr 2007 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
vinayak_d
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Post by vinayak_d »

Thanks arun that was informative. This might be a silly question but what does an interstage do? I noticed on the BR site that the seal launched version does not seem to have it.
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Post by Arun_S »

vinayak_dangui wrote:
Austin wrote:Shouldnt compare , Different countries , different needs , Lots of unknown factor .

I certainly doubt Topol-M uses extensive use of composites as the Agni-3 does
I know austin and thats the point. India would have used composites extensively and hence agni-3 should be lighter, no??
Pls see the BR Agni-III page referenced above.

Eventually all stages will be composite. But being the scared Yindu GOI and DRDO is they first confirmed to the world that India continue to make old stuff that does not threaten nobody. Thus the second stage case is maraging steel, with impared range. It will be later morph into composite case.

What will be interesting however in this test is if this will be a 3 stage missile configuration (I am not sure was it the ex defense minister or DRDO chief who said that).

Put the fear of Gawd in the hearts of the holy WASP.
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Post by kmc_chacko »

http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/05/stories ... 721300.htm

[/quote]Agni-III flight test soon

Special Correspondent




HYDERABAD: The crucial flight trial of Agni-III, the nuclear capable long-range missile (beyond 3000 km), is expected to take place early next week, according to defence sources.

It will be launched from Wheeler Island of the Interim Test Range at Chandipur in Orissa. The maiden flight of the surface-to-surface missile on July 9 last year failed after it nose-dived into the sea within seconds of a smooth lift-off due to non-separation of the first and second stages. DRDO sources later attributed the failure to "material-related fault," besides problems with protective heat shield and propulsion.

The indigenously-built Agni-III, capable of carrying warheads weighing up to 1.5 tonnes, is 16 metres tall and weighs 48 tonnes. It belongs to the Agni series of missiles and is expected to be the mainstay of India's nuclear deterrence programme when fully operational by providing the country with strategic second-strike capability.

While Agni-I is a short-range missile of 750-800 km, Agni-II has a range of more than 1,500 km.

[quote][/quote]
Austin
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Post by Austin »

Thanks for that revised data on A-3
Put the fear of Gawd in the hearts of the holy WASP.
Yeah :twisted:
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Post by Arun_S »

Austin wrote:Thanks for that revised data on A-3
Put the fear of Gawd in the hearts of the holy WASP.
Yeah :twisted:
Didnt only the select few got the darshan of Agni Gwad ? and you r one of the few who knew the 2m/16 m thing. :twisted:
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Post by ramana »

In the above Hindu report:
The maiden flight of the surface-to-surface missile on July 9 last year failed after it nose-dived into the sea within seconds of a smooth lift-off due to non-separation of the first and second stages. DRDO sources later attributed the failure to "material-related fault," besides problems with protective heat shield and propulsion.
All these were initial causes. The final root cause was control cable burn through due to F/S nozzle exhaust gases which were reentrant in the gap between the structure and the nozzle. The fix was a thermal shroud or bellows. The thing to remember is even without stage separation the vehicle flew over 1000km. one hell of a total impulse for the motors.
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Post by vinayak_d »

This is a public fora better keep quiet till GOI decides to open its mouth.
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Post by Gerard »

Arun_S wrote:The following article I wrote for Indian Defense Review (Lancer Publishers) 3 months ago, has nominal range information for Agni-III.
Fear of gawd indeed...
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Post by Singha »

what kind of range does it need to start from indian mainland and target the south of the CONUS ? ..over the north pole I would think ? we should get
a rugged Topol family TEL to deal with the US because of their overwhelming
superiority in submarines, only a robust land based mobile ICBM force can
enforce peace with US. we have no white sea type bastions to shelter our future SSBN fleet.

let the peace, love and brotherhood envelope grasp all our friends in a warm embrace :D then we might see less of the FBI sanction tamasha.

the liberal arts ex-indic freaks sitting in columbia, monterey or h'vaad would sure choke on their frappe's knowing the love of their motherland has reached out in 'peace n understanding'
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Post by Austin »

TEL for an A 3 would need to be designed from groundup , To make it an atonomous all terraine type , The Ruskies have some interesting ideas on those , But lets see what DRDO throws up on that to meet our very specific needs

Whats holding the A2 AT , Its importance should be in no way less than A 3 .

Singha eventually we would also have our SSBN fleet thats the direction we are moving on , The vastness and remoteness of Indian Ocean should provide a good cover for our SSBN
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Post by Shalav »

Guruji,

You should know better than that.

India does not have the technological capability to design anything better than an IRBM, just barely reaching Cheeni mainland only. It says so on the internet.

To get better than we will have to steal or copy such technology from the west! Apparently they also know this hence the reason for the recent sting operation.
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Post by Gerard »

Not only that, unlike technological powers North Korea and Pakistan, India cannot yet fabricate a warhead to fit on a ballistic missile, relying on aircraft instead.. so say the knowledgeable FAS people...
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Post by Shankar »

Surely we cannot even dream of hitting anything in continental US with our prehistoric rocket and missile technology .It is true the PSLV can throw a 1000 kg SAT IN 1000 kms orbit indian missiles can never hope to reach 13500 km throw range with 350 kg thermo nuke .So we need US assistance
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Post by Sumeet »

Ok guys if you people continue to be sarcastic TSJ might take it for real that India is desperate for help/assistance.
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Post by Arun_S »

Ok BR missile site now has the latest (non fudged Agni dimensions).

Updated Agni drawing

The 3 stage Agni-3++ is a very likely next step possibility.

Note that A3 family can carry at least 3 payloads :twisted: .

Thought Sagarika will see daylight first, the underwater launch setup does indicate that it will host a beast 2m dia and 12.5m tall. ;)
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Post by ShibaPJ »

Arun_S,
Great... Now, when Admiral Rakesh starts the still pending mithai distribution, we would ask him to start from a certain cave in KhyberDurra :wink:
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Post by Vipul »

Arun,

How many could be the maximum payloads on the 3++ and 3SL?
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Post by SShah »

Gerard wrote:Not only that, unlike technological powers North Korea and Pakistan, India cannot yet fabricate a warhead to fit on a ballistic missile, relying on aircraft instead.. so say the knowledgeable FAS people...
How old is FAS article btw? I'm pretty sure that at the moment we do posses nukes to fit into Agnis
By the way don't mention about hitting unkil guys, I live here with family... :x
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Post by Gerard »

2005 estimates.

And nobody really wants to strike Unkil. It is the latent deterrent ability that is important. A bomb in the basement and an ICBM in the backyard will keep things nice and friendly. Only love and respect amongst those so armed. No threats from either side. Only pillow talk.
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Post by Austin »

Vipul wrote:Arun,

How many could be the maximum payloads on the 3++ and 3SL?
My guess is if I take the Russian Bulava as my base line configuration as it too has a 2 m dia then atleast 6 MIRV with penaids , But then it would also depend on what kind of MIRV , I guess a Acive MIRV would be limited to 3 with penaids
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Post by Arun_S »

Vipul wrote:Arun,

How many could be the maximum payloads on the 3++ and 3SL?

Depends on desired range and which type of nuke payload it carries and its RV. If range is non issue the minimum of 3 (I am told by trustworthy sources).

As one can see there is much volume available. The 20-50Kt boosted fission potatoes are really small and many can fit in the base datum. Similarly one can visualize from the plan view packaging of high yield TN payload. I am surprised why I drew 3 when there is enough space for 6 TN?
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Post by Arun_S »

BTW its payload is touted at 1500-1800Kg. So if the RV is 500-600Kg (3x), if the RV is 400Kg (4x), if it is really light at 250-300Kg(6x). Now also factor in mass of penetration aids.
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Post by Austin »

Arun_S wrote:BTW its payload is touted at 1500-1800Kg. So if the RV is 500-600Kg (3x), if the RV is 400Kg (4x), if it is really light at 250-300Kg(6x). Now also factor in mass of penetration aids.
How much does the penaids weigh generally ,As a thumbrule if i take a RV figure of 400Kg ( 3x ) that still leaves about 300 ~ 600 kg for penaids .

If we have a all Dancing , all Singing RV and ~ 600 kg for penaids , That just looks right to trouble any ABM defences
Last edited by Austin on 06 Apr 2007 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
Gerard
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Post by Gerard »

From this MX missile photo, it looks like the penetration aids take up one space on the bus

Image
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Post by Shankar »

since every one is guessing my guess is agni 3 will carry 3 300kt thermo nuke payloads and they may include ground penetrating types over a throw range of 7000-9000 kms

Putting in 5 warheads will be really squeezing things a bit but you never know how far warhead miniaturisation have progressed over last three years .Still have not talked to my panwalas ristedar from mumbai whose sister in laws close friend sells fruit joice at BARC
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Post by Austin »

The science of Decoys have also progressed since time , from simple chaff to inflatable baloon and reflector decoys to the more ultra more modern Decoys which can mimic the real RV has the same Thermal and Radar Signatures and can re-enter into the atmosphere at the same speed as RV and remains effective through out the terminal phase and even employes certain active means of deception like real RV making discrimination beteen RV & Decoys impossible.
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Post by Arun_S »

Please see the even more updated Agni-III diagram, with finer embellishments:

Updated embellished Agni drawing (Image dated 4/5/07)

{In the updated image one should be able to see DRDO emblem, INDIA and the spiral orange band. If your PC is still showing older image, pls flush the browser cache and reload the above URL page}
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Post by Shalav »

No Chakra on the Tricolour?
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Post by Arun_S »

Indian missiles use Indian tricolor only it does not have the flag (similar to IAF aircrafts, but horizontal orientation). When Agni Dev gives darshan one can see.
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Post by Shalav »

oh, ok. Didn't realise that. thanks
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Post by Arun_S »

Your query prompted me to inspected some old videos of Agni-II, the video quality is not high res thus it is not conclusive if the chakra is painted or not, in the end you could be right.
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