Second Agni-III test-2

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Arun_S
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Post by Arun_S »

Austin wrote:
Agni-III will also be converted into a submarine-launched ballistic missile to open more second-strike options for the country, DRDO scientists told reporters during a briefing.
So we can expect an all composite , 12 m long and 2 m diameter for India's SLBM , Should give an idea about the dimension of india's SSBN
Austin please provide the link or in the quote pls provide name of the poster who posted link or said it.

Thread moving too fast.
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Post by Singha »

distances from blore

LA - 14000km
NYC - 13000
London 8000
Germany 6500

love..love...all I see is love.
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Post by arun »

A direct quote from M. Natarajan 8) :
ICBM with 5,500-km range can be developed in three years: DRDO

New Delhi, April 13: With the successful launch of the nuclear-capable Agni-III, India has achieved the capability to develop an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile to strike at targets 5,500 km away within the next two to three years, top defence scientists said on Thursday.

"We have achieved the capability to make missiles with a range of 3,500 km to 5,500 km but the decision (to develop an ICBM) has to be taken by the political leadership," Defence Research and Development Organisation chief M Natarajan said here.

"DRDO scientists are working on miniaturising the systems of the Agni-III so that a third stage can be squeezed into the 16-metre-long missile to enable it to go up to 5,500 km with the same 1.5-tonne payload," Natarajan said a day after the first successful launch of the 3,000-km Agni-III.

Agni-III will also be converted into a submarine-launched ballistic missile to open more second-strike options for the country, DRDO scientists told reporters during a briefing.

Pointing out that Agni-III had been tested to almost its full range of 3,000 km, Mission Director Avinash Chander said the missile would become "fully operational" after two to three more launches to be carried out in the next three years.

DRDO has drawn up a busy schedule of tests for its diverse range of indigenous missiles, with the second test of its missile defence system set for August or October. The organisation is also planning user trials for its surface-to-air Akash missile and fourth generation anti-tank Nag missile.

Chander said Agni-I, with a range of 700 km, had already been inducted into the Army while the country's first fully solid-state missile, the 2,000-km Agni-II, is currently being inducted.

Asked whether the proposed ICBM would be christened Surya, Natarajan said it be given a name derived from the Agni series.

For the first time, Chander said, DRDO had acted only as an integrating agency with the Agni-III, with most of the missile's components being made by private industry. A total of 258 private firms and 20 DRDO laboratories were involved in this venture.

"This is why there were no production delays and the next missile is being readied in parallel," he said.

Bureau Report
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Post by Arun_S »

Wow. Yesterday BR main server recorded about 0.9 million hits.
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Post by Arun_S »

arun wrote:A direct quote from M. Natarajan 8) :
ICBM with 5,500-km range can be developed in three years: DRDO

Agni-III will also be converted into a submarine-launched ballistic missile to open more second-strike options for the country, DRDO scientists told reporters during a briefing.
Wow.
Feeling Lucky :twisted:

People who want to read more about submarine launched Agni please read this IDR article:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/ ... II_r11.pdf
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Post by Singha »

looking at size of Topol-M TEL I guess indian railway is the only
thing that can support our puppy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Xzipgq ... ed&search=
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Post by ramana »

sivab wrote:Arun, ramana: What kind of test would be needed to validate RV reentry for 12000KM range?
sivab, If you have been following my posts there are two issues- vehicle and RV.

To get that range requires RV velocity of near orbital velocity ~7km/sec. So that has to be achieved by the launch vehicle.

Now the forces that the RV sees during re-entry will be dependent on the RV velocity. It doesnt make sense to design one for lower velocity as one has to start from scratch. And also look at DRDO statements that their goal fro REX was always 100-250 kg for 7-8km/sec. So I think it is there except the launcher has to provide the necessary velocity is still in work.

Now to test at full range is a little difficult as it means to station INS ships in South Atlantic for observing the spalshdown. See gerard's post above showing the map. Should expect an IN tie up with Chile for visiting rights.

So what would they do? Per Kepler's laws there are two solutions to the orbital equation (its quadratic) ignoring second order effects. They might test at high loft trajectory to get the initial qucik assessment.
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Post by SaiK »

do we need anyones rights to drop it into pacific or indian ocean pre-located targets? some where near south pole?

how about an agni that rotates earth for couple of orbits, then splash back near ITR or bay of bengal? does that satisfy test params?
:mrgreen:
Last edited by SaiK on 13 Apr 2007 22:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by sivab »

ramana: Thank you very much for the response. I understood it has been designed for max. temp/stress and wasn't sure how one can test it without shooting over full range. From what you wrote it looks like if the launcher or a test motor on RV imparts enough velocity the RV can be validated even at yesterday's range. I hope they did or will do something like that. Thanks again for clarifying that.
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Post by ramana »

If a middle of the class can figure this out the top of the class can do it too!
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Post by Aditya G »

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/ ... 400pix.jpg

Getting 404 error on pic linked from agni page
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Post by Suraj »

As I understand, the Agni-III was launched on a depressed trajectory (, which would lower the range. Here's a 2000km coverage map centered on Bhubaneswar:
2000km@BBI
The lower border of the map is the equator.
Here is an Orissa map. Wheeler's Island would lie between Chandipur and Bhubeneswar.

The missile tested range from the circle map, would be >2500km with the depressed trajectory used. Any on-the-record statements on the trajectory used, would help us get a better picture on the range. What we know is the test crossed the equator (i.e. >2500km) and that apparently it used a depressed trajectory. Another factor is payload weight used in the test, which will probably be never publicly stated, though.
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Post by shyamd »

EDITED
Last edited by shyamd on 13 Apr 2007 23:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ramana »

From the Hindu report which by the way is by Y. Mallikarjun and not TS Subramaniam, states that its apogee was 400km and tested to its 3000km range. I think the energy mgt wiggling of F/S flight is a range reduction manouver and at maximum energy trajectory the range is greater than the 3000km.
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Post by JTull »

Arun, regarding the development of 5500km range missile, why is the cap of 16m length even for 3-stage so critical in India's context? Submarine tube length? Limitations on standard rail/road launchers?
Last edited by JTull on 13 Apr 2007 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SaiK »

shyamd: :?: :!:
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Post by ramana »

Saik, Await vamana 8)
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Post by shyamd »

SaiK: Anything you didn't like?
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Post by ramana »

Business line article
AIII test fired
Agni III test-fired successfully
Our Bureau

Ready to take on bigger challenges in the arena: Scientists
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The mood was one of jubilation on the island and at the control station for the DRDO scientists, engineers and support personnel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image


Take-off: Agni III which was launched from Wheeler Island on Thursday.

Hyderabad April 12 Agni-III, India's most strategic long-range ballistic missile, with the capability to carry both conventional and nuclear warheads, was successfully test fired today from Wheeler Island, off the coast of Orissa.

The success of the launch, in the second attempt, has put the country firmly on course, to gain entry into the exclusive club of half a dozen advanced nations, which can launch such intermediate range ballistic missiles that can hit targets beyond 3,000-3,500 km.

The US, Russia, the UK and France are the prominent nations in the club.

The two-stage Agni rocket was blasted at 10.52 a.m. and the missile zoomed into space.

It reached an altitude of 400 km in full 13 minutes from the take-off and made a perfect re-entry into the earth's atmosphere.


"All mission objectives were met during its flight and our indigenous technologies and systems validated," said Mr Avinash Chander, Programme Director of Project Agni.

The fully indigenous, composite-bodied Agni-III weighs 48 tonnes, is 16 metres tall with a payload capacity of 1.5 tonnes. The countdown to the lift-off involved hours of checking and cross-checking nearly 200 parameters for the missile command.

The scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the Union Minister of State for Defence, Mr M.M. Pallam Raju, the DRDO Chief, Mr M. Natarajan, top officers of the three defence services, witnessed the successful test firing.

Jubilant mood

Image


The mood was one of jubilation on the island and at the control station for the nearly 250 DRDO scientists, engineers and support personnel, who have been toiling hard for over a month to ensure that all the systems and sub-systems of the surface-to-surface missile were in order.

"We are ready to take on bigger and bigger challenges in the missiles arena in which Agni-III success is a big booster dose," said Dr V.K. Saraswat, Chief Controller (R&D), Missiles and Strategic Defence of the DRDO, echoing the feeling of the scientists there.

Implications


Summing up the implications of today's success, Dr Saraswat told Business Line over phone from the island, "It's a great achievement for the entire missile community of India and the aerospace industry in general as we have broken the barrier, migrating from medium range to long-range missiles, with high precision and accuracy of impact."

In defence preparedness terms, it means India can now be confident of attaining minimum nuclear deterrence.

By its reach, the missile can hit targets in most parts of the Asian continent and is strategic for the country's overall defence.

India's missile armoury would be more versatile with Agni-I reaching 700-800 km, Agni-II hitting targets up to 2,000 kms.

In addition, it has Prithvi, Nag, Akash, under the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) in various stages of induction.

Less Cost


The DRDO officials say that the Indian missile development costs are less by a factor of two or one third compared to most of the advanced nations. A typical Agni-III missile development costs around Rs 10-12 crore.

Since the design has been proven and it appears like a `perfect system', the need for many tests might not be the case.

"We might go for a couple of more tests, before the missile gets inducted into the defence forces," Dr Saraswat said.


Many firsts


The Agni-III success has many firsts for indigenous missile technology development. It has validated the robust, light weight, composite material rocket motor casings developed by DRDO.

Second, it has proved the efficiency of flex nozzles, which are critical in helping change the direction of trajectory of the missile.

In the re-entry technology, which has been the toughest, the Agni missile has, once again proven that the technology has been mastered and the composite nose tip and missile body is able to withstand the high temperatures of between 2500-3000 degrees C.

The two-stage, solid propellant, inertial guidance and propulsion systems have come good this time.

The DRDO scientists also fixed a thermal protection in the missile system, which solved the problem encountered in the maiden, Agni-III flight on July 9, 2006, which resulted in a failure. A technical team conducted a detailed failure analysis.

"Due to certain interactions in the sub-systems, excess heat was generated causing a fire that was found to be the reason for the flight to nose-dive into the Bay of Bengal, just 70 seconds after lift-off," said Mr Avinash Chander, who is also the Director of the Hyderabad-based, Advanced Systems Laboratory, which pilots the Project Agni, the `pride' and most strategic project in the (IGMDP), launched in 1982-83.
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Post by Shankar »

more and more interesting facts are coming out in he open
agni 3 crossed equator
max ht reached 90 km

if you put these two facts together then we have a missile which can travel 2500 km plus even at 90 km max altitude

That means a very fast traveling missile which when allowed to climb to a normal apogee of a two stage missile will surely have a range more than 6000 km

That agrees very well with aruns predictions and analysis.This one is no IRBM for sure-it is an out and out ICBM
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Post by SaiK »

ramana, i hope i'd b alive to see kalki :twisted: , and might get immortality from vamana as well. :) .
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Post by pradeepe »

Shankar wrote:more and more interesting facts are coming out in he open
agni 3 crossed equator
max ht reached 90 km

if you put these two facts together then we have a missile which can travel 2500 km plus even at 90 km max altitude

That means a very fast traveling missile which when allowed to climb to a normal apogee of a two stage missile will surely have a range more than 6000 km

That agrees very well with aruns predictions and analysis.This one is no IRBM for sure-it is an out and out ICBM
Shankar, Ramana's post above quotes the altitude reached as 400km (in 13min).
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Post by ramana »

SaiK wrote:ramana, i hope i'd b alive to see kalki :twisted: , and might get immortality from vamana as well. :) .
Relax step back and reflect how it relates to your post. Also what did vamana do?
do we need anyones rights to drop it into pacific or indian ocean pre-located targets? some where near south pole?

how about an agni that rotates earth for couple of orbits, then splash back near ITR or bay of bengal? does that satisfy test params?
:mrgreen:
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Post by Suraj »

Let me generously quote Arun_S's post from the previous thread, in a bid for gyan about depressed vs lofted trajectories:
Arun_S wrote:I expect the splashdown at 6°52'36.56"N 93°35'39.23"E ~10Km off Great Nicobar Islands well inside Indian territorial waters (1,700 Km ground range).

It can get there using either lofted trajectory or a depressed trajectory;

Lofted trajectory Apogee: 1,780Km, Flight time:27.5 minute

Depressed trajectory Apogee 100Km Flight time:7.8 minute


Expect a lofted flight this time.

For lofted flight at ~48Km altitude F/S will separate (Speed Mach 4.7), and S/S finish at ~321Km altitude. Payload re-enters at Mach 18.5 (5Km/sec).

I use BR's ROCKSIM for modeling and simulation
The actual flight profile was ~3000km range, 400km apogee, 15 mins. Would this fit well within the expected parameter for lofted and depressed trajectories ? A 400km apogee would probably qualify as a depressed trajectory.
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Post by SwamyG »

Arun_S wrote:Wow. Yesterday BR main server recorded about 0.9 million hits.
Was it one reason why, yesterday, Bharat-Rakshak was unavailable for some time?
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Post by Gerard »

how about an agni that rotates earth for couple of orbits, then splash back near ITR or bay of bengal? does that satisfy test params?
Fractional Orbital Bombardment System
Fractional Orbital Bombardment System (FOBS) was a Soviet ICBM program in the 1960s that after launch would go into a low Earth orbit and would then de-orbit for an attack. It had no range limit and the orbital flight path would not reveal the target location.

This would allow a path to North America over the South Pole, hitting targets from the south, which is the opposite direction from which NORAD early warning systems are oriented.

The Outer Space Treaty banned nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction in earth orbit. However, it did not ban systems that were capable of placing weapons in orbit, and the Soviet Union avoided violating the treaty by conducting tests of its FOBS system without live warheads.

The Soviets developed three missiles to employ FOBS, with only one entering service: 8K67 (SS-9 Scarp)

The orbital missile 8K69 was initially deployed in 1968, and the first regiment with the R-36 orbital missiles was put on alert in 1969.

The SALT II agreement (1979) prohibited the deployment of FOBS systems:

The missile was phased out in January 1983 in compliance with this treaty.
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Post by disha »

SaiK wrote:do we need anyones rights to drop it into pacific or indian ocean pre-located targets? some where near south pole?
If it is in Indian territorial waters, you have sole claim over it and you can also deny anybody else into your vertical airspace and waterspace.

In international waters, anybody can come and snoop it. That is not a good idea when you are carrying out strategic tests.

That is why the claims of IROT are bogus when they talk about 2.5k km range weapons. Because maximum they can test is 400 - 600 km. For the rest, they have to interpolate.
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Post by disha »

JTull wrote:Arun, regarding the development of 5500km range missile, why is the cap of 16m length even for 3-stage so critical in India's context? Submarine tube length? Limitations on standard rail/road launchers?
Or retrofitting to the existing infrastructure. The operational paradigms remain unchanged.
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Post by Vriksh »

Comparison of ICBM between countries

India
Name: Agni3
range: 3000-5000km
payload: 1500
dia: 2.0m
lenght: 16m
mass: 48 tonnes
deployment date: 2008 (I suppose)

China
Name: DF-31
range: 5000-8000km
payload: 700kg
dia: 2.0m
lenght: 10+m
mass: 20 tonnes
deployment date: 1992
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/icbm/df-31.htm

USA
Name: Minuteman3
range: 8000-10000km
payload: 400kg
dia: 1.67m
lenght: 18m
mass: 36 tonnes
deployment date: 1970
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman

Russia
Name: Topol M
range: 8000-10000km
payload: 1200kg
dia: 1.95m
lenght: 21m
mass: 48 tonnes
deployment date: 1996 thereabouts
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/icbm/rt-2pmu.htm

Looking at all this data I think there is black in lentils desi style... either A3 is incredibly bloated or It can do more than what is advertized.
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Post by SaiK »

disha wrote:
SaiK wrote:do we need anyones rights to drop it into pacific or indian ocean pre-located targets? some where near south pole?
In international waters, anybody can come and snoop it. That is not a good idea when you are carrying out strategic tests...
may be, may be not. if you have designated target, and per claims that area is not pre-occupied pre-test, then still you lose your test fragments(results), then there is a strategic rethinking required (we have a problem then).

get it?
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Post by Gerard »

One little missile test and even the BBC has to drop its psyops and finally use 300 kT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6551857.stm
The missile was launched from Wheeler Island off the eastern state of Orissa and is also said to be capable of carrying up to a 300-kiloton nuclear warhead.
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Post by ramana »

DDM is making big deal of the two flights that did not get the NOTAM notice.

Looks like there is a crop of DDM thats wants to look for haddi in the kabab. Or look for dungeons in your dream castle.
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Post by Rahul Shukla »

From Wikipedia.

A nice summary of the whole process. The missile depicted is US-Minuteman but this helps visualize the events from launch to MIRV detonation.

Image
1. The missile launches out of its silo by firing its 1st stage boost motor [A].
2. About 60 seconds after launch, the 1st stage drops off and the 2nd stage motor ignites. The missile shroud is ejected.
3. About 120 seconds after launch, the 3rd stage motor [C] ignites and separates from the 2nd stage.
4. About 180 seconds after launch, 3rd stage thrust terminates and the Post-Boost Vehicle [D] separates from the rocket.
5. The Post-Boost Vehicle maneuvers itself and prepares for re-entry vehicle (RV) deployment.
6. The RVs, as well as decoys and chaff, are deployed during backaway.
7. The RVs and chaff re-enter the atmosphere at high speeds and are armed in flight.
8. The nuclear warheads detonate, either as air bursts or ground bursts.
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Post by Rampy »

Rahul Shukla wrote:From Wikipedia.


3. About 120 seconds after launch, the 3rd stage motor [C] ignites and separates from the 2nd stage.
quote]
What is the yellow tip falling at stage two, looks like teh cone fell off, is that true?
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Post by Rahul Shukla »

Rampy wrote:
Rahul Shukla wrote:From Wikipedia.

3. About 120 seconds after launch, the 3rd stage motor [C] ignites and separates from the 2nd stage.
What is the yellow tip falling at stage two, looks like teh cone fell off, is that true?
That is exactly what I am curious about. How does the nose cone seperate and get out of the path of the missile? What means are employed? Thrusters? Mechanical Force?

Need jingo assistance...
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Post by Arun_S »

After 90 Km the aerodynamic drag is bearable to the RV. Thus the unwanted nose cover is jettisoned. Why lug a Gen Musharraf any further, use and throw.

Same as that for satellite launchers. They eject it at 100-110 Km altitude because the sats are blunt and dont take aerodrnamic heating too well.
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Post by Rahul Shukla »

Arun_S wrote:After 90 Km the aerodynamic drag is bearable to the RV. Thus the unwanted nose cover is jettisoned. Why lug a Gen Musharraf any further, use and throw.

Same as that for satellite launchers. They eject it at 100-110 Km altitude because the sats are blunt and dont take aerodrnamic heating too well.
Yes saa'r. I meant to know what is the preferred method employed for this purpose... I am guessing small rocket thrusters.
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Post by Suraj »

Rahul Shukla wrote:Yes saa'r. I meant to know what is the preferred method employed for this purpose... I am guessing small rocket thrusters.
Why would you presume the whole nosecone comes off in one piece, implying the only way to separate it is to have it blown out vertically ? It could just as well split in half down the middle of the vertical axis and expelled sideways; there would then be no issues with it being jettisoned into the missile's path in this case.
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Post by Gerard »

Rediff source is the chai-wallah outside DRDO gate?

Agni III: Maximum range in South Asia
While Agni-I is a part liquid and part solid fuel propelled missile, the longer range Agni-II and Agni-III have solid fuel boosters and aimers, the sources said.
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Post by Gerard »

I recall a video clip of a US ground test of the nose cone separation mechanism - the explosive bolts fired and a small booster lifted the cone up and sideways.
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