Small Arms Thread

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Igorr
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Post by Igorr »

Kalantak wrote:Igorr any progress in Russia on any new type of bullets like the US 6.8 SPC cartridge. They have even designed their rifles around this cartridge and even the old m-16 can be made to fire this new cartridge with a few modifications.
The issue around a cartrige upgrade isnt finished in US. Next time I'll bring for you some exellent article with all doubts around it.
Russia has tried an universal rifle 6mm round for marksman rifles (SVD type), assault rifles and light machineguns too. The sniper rifles (5 units) even took parts in 2nd Chechen campany with good outcome, but the program overall was stopped for now. Next time I'll try to bring picts about this secret trials. However, more cost-effective way of round improving was chosen. For ex: instead of soviet light bullet with mass-excentricity for 5.45mm they put more heavier AP and soft core FMJ bullets. Those bullets are more accurate, less inclined to riccuchette. AP harden still core variant is piercing any bodyarmor on service, and the soft (hunting) variant - is exellent against softskinner terrorists due to the bullet deformation in the body. The new 7.62x54R rounds for SVD are also more accurate and their bullets are capable to penetrate twice through the NATO's helmet including the head... I recently read a story just about their use in Iraq against NATO soldiers.

In addition some not fanny story about Tavor's overcost and deficiency :evil:


In 2002 India signed a deal with Israel for the purchase of 3070 Tavor assault rifles worth US $ 20 million. The rifle which costs around US $6500 is one of the most modern assault rifles available in the world.

After signing the deal, Israel Military Industries (IMI) had only initially supplied 350-400 TAR-21s without grenade launchers to India's northern Special Frontier Force (SFF). The rifles were declared 'operationally unsatisfactory' and India also claimed damages for delay.

However new supplies with improved designs followed....
IMI had also supplied around 130 Galil 7.62 sniper riles and around 450,000 rounds of ammunition to the SFF and the army for $1.4 million in 2005.... http://www.kashmirnewz.com/n000336.html

- So, I dont wonder about the intention now to buy the licension for original Kalashnikov :mrgreen:
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Post by Kalantak »

Igorr you can very well understand that the deal between india and israel for
the tavor and the deal between india and russia for the licensed production
of AK-103 are different matter altogether.

The tavor's were brought to fill in an gap in the special forces arsenal of not
having an rifle which could fire the 5.56x45 mm INSAS round and at the
same time be compact enough to aid in the special forces operations. The
bullpup layout of the tavor helps here. If india wanted an similar rifle from
russia then it would have surely bought the russian A-91 and not the AK-103.

The deal with russia to license manufacture the AK-103 will basically enable
OFB to legally manufacture an ak rifle that fires the 7.62x39mm round.
Already OFB has the infrastructre to manufacture the ak series. During the
DefExpo 2004 an rifle similar to the ak series rifle named as A7 was
displayed. At that time OFB did not have an license otherwise it would
have entered service by now.
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Post by rkhanna »

The deal with russia to license manufacture the AK-103 will basically enable
OFB to legally manufacture an ak rifle that fires the 7.62x39mm round.
Already OFB has the infrastructre to manufacture the ak series. During the
DefExpo 2004 an rifle similar to the ak series rifle named as A7 was
displayed. At that time OFB did not have an license otherwise it would
have entered service by now.

I think most people are jumping the Gun here. The AK-103 HAS NOTHING to do with the Indian Army OR the OFB. The Rights to TOT have been bought by a Private Weapons Manufacture to sell the weapons to State Police Forces and Paramilitaries and the Army if a need arises. The Army has never shown interest in the rifle and neither was this "Deal" done with the Knowledge of the Army nor with its permission.

The Russian arms company, Izhmash, will shortly issue a licence to an Indian private arms manufacturer with whom negotiations are at an advanced stage. Company spokesperson Alexander Xavarzin said assembling of the AK-103 will begin in a year's time and full-scale manufacturing would start once the technology transfer takes place.

The company hopes to sell the gun to various police and paramilitary forces in the country as well as the army. It will not be exported

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 793608.cms

Secondly the Army will shortly be issuing a Tender for the Next Gen (INSAS replacement) Rifles in which the OFB will partake with its New Rifles as well as Foriegn Companies (HK,FN,SIG,COLT,etc). This Indian Private Company could enter the tender with the Ak-103. Thats about it.
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Post by Igorr »

Kalantak wrote:Igorr you can very well understand that the deal between india and israel for
the tavor and the deal between india and russia for the licensed production
of AK-103 are different matter altogether..
Why different? Should Tavor cost $300-500 it could be adopted for Internal Ministry units/paramilitary as well. It's not bad rifle at all. But $6500 - is a fair price for thoroughbred sniper rifle, and you know the difference for these. For assault rifle this price is unproperly, obscenely high. Even the futuristic SCAR will cost 5 time less for the US SOCOM. I dont know perticulary the motivation for this extravagant purchasing, but it's admitted in India fo such cases to think about a baksheesh, isnt it.

Now about your previousely questions. Look this article, please: http://depositfiles.com/files/3906434

They say, the US Army has no plan for any new caliber induction. 6.8mm cartrige - is on testing for now. BTW, the new heavier bullet for 5.56x45 NATO is already inducted for US forces in Afghanistan. It has better penetrating and stopping capability. So US are choosing the conservative way for upgrading, just as Russia with its 5.45x39 mm cartrige.

In addition I must say US and NATO have no satisfating 'intermidiate' cartrige like the Soviet 7.62x39 mm. The NATO 7.62x45 is too powerful and only little different from it parent rifle 7.72x 51 mm cartrige. So, 6.8 mm cartrige can be real 'intermidiate' cartrige for this stance. For the Russians it may be more logical the reanimation of Soviet 7.62x39 mm cartrige with new bullet, better gunpowder and case. It's what they do indeed on AK-103\AK-104 serials.

However, the Russian current 5.45x39 mm for assault rifle and light machingun is an exellent choice. It's very light, means you can carry bigger number with you. And the typical situation in the worst case is ambush, when the unit happens on foe fire. You dont recognise the enemy immidiately, so the standard tactics in Chechenya for the soldiers to fire the first magazine without pointed aiming and taking cover. Just for enemy depressing/ Then the soldier changes a magazine and starts well ordered fire.

The trend now is even lighter cartrige for individual automatic fire, like 4.6x36 HK. So 6.8 mm has no logic for RuArmy IMHO. For the sharpshooters and squad machingunners - 7.62x54R is still the best!
It's superb cartrige with good potential. If you look on this round, the bullet is very long, So, if one wants to say improved sniper capability, he can make shorter and lighter bullet for the same case, which will have higher velocity and greater accurateness. From other hand this cartrige is rimmed, that is good for machingun. Kalashnikov used two-steps conveyer for its PKM - it's still the lightest and the most reliable machingun in the world. It's very popular too due to its ability to fire in the mud condition - the round go two-steps and becomes clean! Now they improved this MG for Pecheneg - the only world machingun in this caliber that doesnt need barrel change for cooling. According to my lurking on the Russian fora, the Speznaz guys very excited with this weapon. Even Turkish soldiers in Kurdistan prefer PKM over 'supa-dupa' Belgique MAG and Germany g3.

7.62x54R PKM squad MG:
Image
Turks with PKM in Kurdistan:
Image

The SVD rifle for sharpshooting is still very powerfull with its new 7.62x54R sniper cartrige. The bullpup variant OTs-3 with silencer and special buttock makes less than 200 decibell sound, 30% lesser recoil and gabarits enough portative for transporting in the car. Exellent history in Chechnya too!

Turks with SVD: Image

OTs-3 rifle:
ImageImage

The American army has nothing better for such purpose in Afghanistan or Iraq:
Image
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Post by Surya »

Igorr

Since when did we get to know the per unit costs of anything???

DDM will say x nummber of rifles and 20 million

That 20 million could cover other things too.

So lets not go by silly things like 6500 for a Tavor.
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Post by Igorr »

Surya wrote:Igorr

Since when did we get to know the per unit costs of anything???

DDM will say x nummber of rifles and 20 million

That 20 million could cover other things too.

So lets not go by silly things like 6500 for a Tavor.
What can be there even theoretically? The deal didnt include any high cost suplements, and there is no night optic as by the picture. Otherwise they would say this oppenly. Somehow nobody here except me suspects irregulars in this deal despite the issue of the launchers, inperfections etc. Hmm, nobody even outcries... :twisted:
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Post by John Snow »

K_Prasad garu said
The trigger pull is around 4 kg, which is kinda on the heavier side, and the bolt is a bit sluggish. However, I do think the recoil will be managed extremely well.. didnt move a bit when I released the bolt. The sgt there mentioned that the recoil on this rifle was far better than on the M-16s, and it wasnt as error prone (although it too needs as much maintenance as the M-16s).
I think there is trade off between trigger pull force and the bolt being sluggish.

The nearest anology that I can think of is between Keyboarding speed on a Mechanical typerwriter and the force required to hit the keys.

While in Godrej ( the sales people) often used to say that Remington typewriter key board is feather touch compared to the requirement of mallet to hit the keys on Godrej type writer!

However on remington type writer for skilled typest when at his /her best speeds the number of times the Key lever arm would clash and stick were higher, and that would never / seldom happen on Godrej...

Because of the stiff spring index on Godrej Typerwrite( machine) the return spped of the key lever was fast to its normal position after hitting the paper ( also those days for govt documenation 1 + 6 copies of carbon paper were not unusual), hence for sarkari dedicated work they used to prefer Godrej, but typewriting institutes would prefer Remington, to preserve Lady Fingers ( Okra so called in India) :D

Disclaimer> I am not a sales person for Godrej nor did I ever fire a rifle or gun. Just an engineering explanation. I could be totall wrong with anaology though not having seen the mechanism of a rifle or gun... :)
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Post by rkhanna »

That 20 million could cover other things too.

So lets not go by silly things like 6500 for a Tavor.
The 20 Million deal is for the Tavors and Galils AND ToT for Local manufacture if i remeber reading early day reports correctly.
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Post by Surya »

Igorr

They are not going to tell you whats in the deal.

I have some idea but that stays with me :twisted:
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Post by A Sharma »

Surya
Is Zittara part of the deal?
TIA
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Post by khukri »

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Post by Igorr »

the Tavor's integral optical sight that allows soldiers to aim with open eyes.
Ha-ha-ha, who close the eye when shooting via collimator sight?
He acknowledged that IWI sales to date have been primarily in the developing world, but with customers who aspire to First World capabilities.
So, what they'r confirming the sells are politically motivated.
"Three-quarters of this tool is all barrel, which means higher-powered trajectory and longer range," Shachar said. "We're talking 800 meters or more.
The letal capability of 5.56 mm cartrige isnt exceed 800 m. Especially if it's not spoken about the Palestinians but a heavy vested infantry. And they speak about single-shot fire of course. If the distance is 800-1200 mm how Tavor with the 'low-impulse' 5.56 mm can be better then SVD with its full power rifle 7.62x54?

Personally, I should fear to take for real operation a weapon, which has NO regular sight. It means if the battery on ITL MARS sight was go, you remain without aiming at all. It's may be good for short time resque operation, but when you are 5 days in the mountains under the rain with rare supply, how you can rely on a battery?

They apropos took away all BS from Tavor-2 , ans for IDF they'll go with more coventional grip, Piccatini rail etc:
ImageImage
- the ergonomics are very close to Groza:
Image

And I can give pleasure for those who still think IMI didnt obtain monopolistic superprofit from Tavor's sells to India: the Tavor's price for IDF is $1000 only. Where the remained $5500 for each Tavor sold for India? I dont know)))
Surya wrote:Igorr

They are not going to tell you whats in the deal.

I have some idea but that stays with me :twisted:
Surya, you allways give the credit to 'DDM', when it's about Russian stuff for India. Now dont you want to give credit to 'DDM' too?
rkhanna wrote:
That 20 million could cover other things too.

So lets not go by silly things like 6500 for a Tavor.
The 20 Million deal is for the Tavors and Galils AND ToT for Local manufacture if i remeber reading early day reports correctly.
Nothing close to ToT was arranged. It whould be in 'DDM' already. What I read before, the deal included Galil sharp-shooting rifles. It was also the first Tavor sell abroad (Jan 2003) when IDF said they cannot buy it due to financial crisis. It was classic Russian-type substitutive export deal. Tavors then replaced the Romanian AK-47's didnt it.
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Post by A Sharma »

From Force Magazine. Just posting a snippet

The OFB-licence produced TAR-21’s 9mm carbine version, called STAR is now undergoing user-trials.

The OFB is also ramping up production of its home-grown products like the 5.56mm Excalibur assault rifle, 5.56mmx30 protective carbine, and the 5.56mmx45 ‘Kalantak’ micro sub-machine gun.
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Post by Surya »

Sorry Igor

I do not need DDM for my news.

If you still want to believe the $6500 - go ahead
be my guest.

At least when we pay $6500 to the Israelis the product gets delivered with support. Cannot say that about the Russians!! As for support - there does not even exist such a word for them

:D you asked for it
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Post by negi »

Well well... Igorr DDM noise aside even if India did pay much more for the Tavor than it actually costs it does not undermine its utility or effectiveness does it ?, for the the economics of arms trade are always skewed towards the seller, the only difference is in this case IMI made the moolah instead of RU.

As it is IA has both Kalashnikovs and Tavors in active service and it knows best as to what weapon to be given to its special ops units . :twisted: .
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Post by rkhanna »

Nothing close to ToT was arranged

Have a look at the Indian OFB website.. you would learn a thing or too.
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Post by ranganathan »

Raj Malhotra
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Post by Raj Malhotra »

Indian tavor my guess would be , should include tavor, 9mm conversion kit, silencer, underbarrel grenade launcher, laser, day/night sights, and ammo etc. So price cannot be 6x
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Post by Igorr »

ranganathan wrote:Igorr, check out the link:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/25.htm
Do you want to say Zittara is made under licension. OMG, dont you know OFB makes AK clones without any licension. Why it would be different with Tavor? Never read Tavor came with licension, ToT or something like that.
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Post by ranganathan »

Maybe because its a superior gun. :D
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Post by Igorr »

ranganathan wrote:Maybe because its a superior gun. :D
AK also came to India as a 'superior gun'. Depending for what superior and over what. Methink is more simple: it was a kickback and then an overpriced sell like were many times in India before :P
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Post by ranganathan »

Even if there was kickback it is still way superior to Ak series. The soldiers like it and thats whats important.
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Post by Surya »

We absolutely insist on kickbacks as long as the product is delivered and there is support.

Since Russia is so clean and ethical we could not give them the deal.

kickbacks for overpriced garbage cans called T 90 - 1 million dollars

kickbacks for superior performing Tavors and other Israeli products - - 5 million dollars
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Post by sunilUpa »

Thailand bought 15,000 TAR-21s. Any one know how much did they pay?
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Post by bhavin »

It seems like this discussion is fast becoming one of the MOD long procurement and corruption sagas wherein the vendor that does not get the contract only has to yell corruption and effectively stall the whole process.. Sometimes I wonder how come the chinese are not instigating such corruption dramas - they will be able to hamstring India better this way rather than slug it out at 15000 ft...

Igorr, this is not about whose schlong is long or in this case whose gun is better. Indian armed forces made a choice and truth of the matter is that we don't have a good idea about what exactly they are going to be used for.

I would also like to say, it is one thing for desi jingoes to go around yelling kickbacks, but you should not be accusing the Indian armed forces of corruption when you do not have all the data. Unless and until you know what all was in the Tavor contract, you should not make any judgement on the process.

Finally, I have a very simple explanation for the two pics in the picture thread, as pointed out by some that the two soldiers are from RR Cdo and as pointed out by Igorr as to what they were doing in the city - I had some very high level sources check it out - The way it happened was - Two cdo were waiting for some piglets to manurize when suddenly both felt the urge to drink some hot tea, so they climbed down and came to market.

Image

The first picture shows the cdo describing to the journalist where the tea stall used to be and how it had disappeared.

Image

The second picture shows the second cdo who was pissed off and decided to wait at the location of the tea stall till it was restored to its former glory. :P

J/K.... :wink:
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Post by ParGha »

Just a General Reminder: Contrary to the misconception I have come across a couple of times here and in the Miscellaneous Pictures thread, experimental systems don't always go to the special operations units or the most experienced units. And even when they do, they don't necessarily stay with the same units past the validation period. In the Indian armed forces, a validation unit or a few validation units are choosen from a set, defined by some parameters relevent to the system, and asked to try the system and provide feedback. If there is inconclusive feedback, the small freebie systems (like small-arms) are written-off and disappear into the logistics machine... popping back up at the wierdest places.

As an example, Indian military and police regular units have been seen with equipment that is not part of the Indian TOE at all like Browning HMGs, M1Garands etc... that obviously made their way in from our own SFF or captured Paki stocks. Others come with more mysterious pasts like a few .50BMG M82s. Hell, a Mahar Battalion even had some M113s in Somalia. Logistics is a byzantine world, and specialized stocks come from and go to the wierdest places.
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Post by Igorr »

Only for true professionals :wink:
Image

The "Russian combat small arms", PDF-book:
fedoseev_semen._boevoe__strelkovoe_orujie_rossii.djvu - 6.80MB
need DjVu viewer
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Post by Igorr »

From te US Assymetric Warfare Forces: total HK 416 confiscation from AWG operators, has since been completed, whereby AWG warfighter were forced to turn in all their 416s (HK416s) (approx. 240+ guns, total). http://www.defensereview.com/modules.ph ... e&sid=1111


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/03/A ... s_031008w/
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Post by rkhanna »

ATS Mumbai to get Small Arms upgrade

Email Author
Mumbai, March 31, 2008
First Published: 01:36 IST(31/3/2008)
Last Updated: 01:38 IST(31/3/2008)

Under constant threat from terrorists, India’s commercial capital is clearly in need of the best available security. And that’s what it’s going to get.

In two month’s time, Mumbai’s Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) will have upgraded equipment for its combat wing — the Quick Response Team (QRT) — typically called to handle hostage situations.

The team already has one night-vision goggles, and orders were placed last month for German-made Heckler and Koch MP5 sub-machine guns and long-range sniper rifles, sources told the Hindustan Times. More night-vision goggles are on the way.

The MP5 sub-machine guns are handy in ambush and rescue operations, the snipers are said to be the most reliable tools for long-range targets.

ATS chief Inspector General Hemant Karkare, said: “It’s a team of extremely well-trained officers. Our efforts are to improve its firepower.â€
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Post by ssmitra »

In July 2007, the US Army announced a limited competition between the M4 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon was fired for 6,000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment." The purpose of the shootoff was for assessing future needs, not to select a replacement for the M4. [2][3] The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds, the MK16 SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored "significantly worse" than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/a ... st_071217/

isn't there an Indian army evaluation unit or something which should be looking into these results.

Has there ever been a trial within the military or police to look for small arms other than the standard Ak47 etc..
browsing around I came across the AEK971 video on you tube and t seems very interesting maybe igor may be able to shed some more gyan on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSuA06IDceI

it seems to have a very tight cluster shot. What is the INSAS cluster compared to this?? anyone

also according to this site here
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as34-e.htm

it is supposed to be as good as the AN and cheaper to manufacture.
Is there a police evaluation unit as such??
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Post by Igorr »

ssmitra wrote: browsing around I came across the AEK971 video on you tube and t seems very interesting maybe igor may be able to shed some more gyan on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSuA06IDceI

it seems to have a very tight cluster shot. ...
also according to this site here
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as34-e.htm

it is supposed to be as good as the AN and cheaper to manufacture.
Is there a police evaluation unit as such??
The problem of AEK971 - it gives only middle progress relatively to AK-74. The errors of aiming when fire from unstable position in standard situation is so big that the little progress in accurateness doesnt improove effectiveness of fire. So it's not worth to change the main weapon in all Army. All competitors of AN-94 including AEK971 lost tender in 1994. Only AN-94 was recognized progressive enough to justify the efforts. But even AN-94 is too complex for draft units. So the elite units are taking what they need including AEK971 and AN-94 and the remained with further AK modernisations and newest, highly improved rounds. BTW, exellent Chech AK modernisation, 5.56mm CZ-2000 Lada:
ImageImageImage
Togather with Polish Beryl it's the most potent European AKmoid in this caliber 5.56mm.
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Post by Igorr »

Good video about the use of AK-74 in A-stan. You can see, 5.45mm is pretty enough to vip the pigs out from desent distance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rZZBmCDEYg

But if it's urban fighting, 7.62x39 can work better for some instance. Then, the use of AKM, AK-103 is justfull.
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Post by Gerard »

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Post by Igorr »

It's totally political pressure. They just give up to the American arm weapon lobby, like during previous attack on HK416 in the hands of SOCOM. The claim that M16 is a 'big step forwards' is ridiculous, while so heavy critic was said inside US themselves. So, the Americans are remaining in their 'best' delusion: prop, prop and more prop... :D

Coming back to issue, apart with reliability problems, the M16 and especially M4 are not balanced with their features. I mean, their accurateness is excessive while on the distance of 600m their rounds have neither stopping nor really killing power. Of course, it very depends on where you place the shot, but on the long distance, you will never hit bull eye with 5.56 mm anyway.

Russian arm weapon of 90th years gen is much more balanced with its parameters. For example, 9A-91 compact automatic rifle has 400 m effective range with the ability of 9 mm bullet to pierce the standard army armored vest or helmet from all this distance. The stopping power of 9x39 round is excellent, and these bullets don't ricochet, they are subsonic, i.e. the shot is much less loud by itself, and with the silencer it works even better. It's why 9A-91 were so loved in the units in Chechen wars:
Image Image Image Image
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

The Americans now have no any arm weapon for building area combat even close to 9A-91, VS 'Val' or VSS 'Vintorez' . Their claims about M16 has better accurateness is ridiculous: if the distance is 600 m use SVD or other rifle for sharp shooting! Anyway on the distance 500+ m's M16 with 5.56 mm will never be better than SVD with powerful 7.62x54 mm 'Extra' sniper rounds:
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Image Image Image Image

And if one wants rifle with SVD accurateness and power, but with the rare option for automatic fire in close engagement, why he would go to M16? He'll better go for SVU with integrated silencer:
ImageImage Image Image Image Image Image
Image Image Image
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Post by Igorr »

A video explaines why so important for assault rifle to be reliable, dust steady and without hydrophobia. Not like M16. From Discovery chanel: http://depositfiles.com/files/4843453
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Post by ParGha »

Igorr,

1. What is the suppressed-SMG that the two soldiers in front of the APC are carrying?

2. Out of curiosity, do the Russian mechanized/armored troops still get issued the old padded-helmets? Why is it almost never seen in use with export-customers of the APCs?
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Post by ParGha »

Looks like somebody else has had enough of the bull-pups:

Image
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Post by Igorr »

ParGha wrote:Igorr,

1. What is the suppressed-SMG that the two soldiers in front of the APC are carrying?
It's 9x18mm AEK-919 'Kashtan' ('chestnut') SMG of 'Kovrov Mechanical Plant' Co.:
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- It's made by the same manufacturing and design company, that produced the famous PKM and its last modernized version Pecheneg by licensing. They are known as a developer of the first world serial small arm with non-conventional mass-balanced automatics: AEK-971 assault rifle. It's very accurate. I have a good 30-min video about Kovrov's history with a comparative trial between 'Kashtan' and Uzi. And I need to say, 'Kashtan' is much more reliable, light and accurate, than Uzi. May be I'll translate this video in near future and upload it with subtitle, it's just superb!

'Kashtan' – is already in serial production since latter 90th. The first unit has been equipped with 'Kashtan' was the Russian Pres. Security. It's also became the PDW for helo pilots in Chechnya. it's promoted also as a PDW for tank crews, but a country tender for all-army PDW is expected. However, the deficiency of 'Kashtan' is its weak round. Even serving in army, Makarov's 9x18 mm round was designed after WW2 as a police round with minimal needed energy. It's subsonic and has only 330 kj energy, that is just close to broadly accepted lethal border of 300 kj. It's just insufficient against modern body armor. So after year 2000 Kovrovians have developed two new SMGs for more powerful 9x19 mm rounds including classic Para and new Russian 7N21 variant with higher ballistics. For better accurateness they have mass-balanced automatics just as AEK-971 assault rifles. It's AEK-918 and AEK-918G – the first world SMGs with mass-balanced automatics. The last has an unbeatable option for a short 3-rounds burst with the fire rate of 1500 rounds/min (0.1 sec all)! It's something I never saw on any other SMG:
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It's need to note, all Russian SMGs (more than ten kinds I know) are the indigenous developments of 90th. BTW, because of political conservatism no SMG were developed in USSR after WW2. In new Russia it's is a big leap ahead , that I don’t know other country with so quick progress in small arms development with so shine results. The most exclusive things Russian do its their ability to develop not only new weapons (that Israel and many others can also do), but to design totally new rounds. It's because you cannot achieve really big leap ahead with only rifle modification. Weapon – is a combination of the arm itself and ammunition's features. The list of new Russian pistol rounds includes powerful 9x21 mm armor-piercing round. It's the most powerful round in the world in 9 mm, can defeat standard army vest and helmet from up to 100 m distance. The Makarov's 9x18 mm rounds were also modernized to PMM armor-piercing round which has improved ballistic and more energy. The more powerful round was also designed in dimensions of 9x19 mm Luger-Parabellum round. With such powerful SMG rounds for short range combat scenarios you don’t need really carbins with their low caliber low stopping 5.56 mm :)

SR.2M 'Veresk' SMG (on the service of Russian 'Group Alfa'):
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'Veresk' on the last Indian DefenceExpo:
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The new 9x21 mm SP-10 round for SMG 'Veresk' and different anti-terror pistols (9x19 mm Luger was shown for comparizon):
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Pistol rounds world-wide collection:
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1. .22 LR
2. .17 HMR
3. .22 WMR
4. 5.45x18 MPTs (МПЦ)
5. 5.7x28 SS193
6. .25 NAA
7. .32 NAA
8. 7.65x17 SR Browning / .32 ACP
9. 7.62x25 TT
10. .223 Timbs / subcaliber bullet 5.56 in 7.62Ñ…25 case
11. 9x17 Browning Short / .380 ACP
12. 9x18 Police
13. 9x18 PM (ПМ)
14. 9x19 Luger / Parabellum
15. 9x20 Browning long
16. 9x21 IMI
17. 9x21 SP-11 (СП-11)
18. 9х21 SP-10 (СП-10)
19. .38 Super automatic / 9x23 SR
20. 9x23 Winchester
21. .357 SIG / 9x22
22. .40 S&W / 10x22
23. 10x25 Automatic
24. .45 GAP / 11.43x21
25. .45 ACP / 11.43x25
2. Out of curiosity, do the Russian mechanized/armored troops still get issued the old padded-helmets? Why is it almost never seen in use with export-customers of the APCs?
It's not rare however. If you saw Discovery films about American and German tanks, you can recognize that they also have padded helmets on the same principle like the Russians, although with bit different external look. You can see also a lot of pics in Internet with the customers of T-80U and BMP-3, the crews (Cyprus) with old Russian standard tanker caps.
Igorr
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Post by Igorr »

What can happen with an American who use pirate-producted AKmoid :P :
http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v3448102e22


And this is an original AKMS working :) :
http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v2859198442
Raghavendra
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Post by Raghavendra »

Igorr wrote:What can happen with an American who use pirate-producted AKmoid :P :
http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v3448102e22
It literally blew in his face. Seems to be an chinese made AK before clinton banned their import. By the looks of the surroundings it looks like an american weapons range or is it iraq?
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