ATV and K15 missile - News & Discussion

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NRao
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Post by NRao »

"arms race" = success.
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Post by ramana »

Avid
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Post by Avid »

Baljeet wrote:while we are at this subject, I want to make a prediction....
2015 Nov 15th War breaks out between Indian & Pak over water resrouces. Pakis have learned from their lizard all weather friend the art of local border war, new generation of Indians are not taking the bait, they retialiate from land, air and sea. Taliban has full control of souther afghanistan. Indian retialiation leaves devastated landscape above lahore to afghanistan, Indian Forces capture entire POK and Aksai chin. Taliban smells blood moves in with jihadi takes over what is left of pakistan. Indian Forces cut pakistan in two halves along rahim yaar khan landscape. Taliban and India make a deal, India won't provide any support to Ameri-khan, Taliban will not launch any jihad against India. Truce is a temporary peace till both sides regroup for final fight in next 10 years. India closes its border with Islamic Republic of Taliban. Shoot at site orders are issues, no enquiry, no jurisprudence on what happens in NW Border area.
War ends on Jan 15th, 2016. There is a tacit understanding between Hindu India, ME Crescent; Your fight is in other direction not towards east.
Had a nice something to smoke did you? :P
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Post by jamwal »

:D
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Post by alokgupt »

Avid wrote:
Baljeet wrote:while we are at this subject, I want to make a prediction....
2015 Nov 15th War breaks out between Indian & Pak over water resrouces. Pakis have learned from their lizard all weather friend the art of local border war, new generation of Indians are not taking the bait, they retialiate from land, air and sea. Taliban has full control of souther afghanistan. Indian retialiation leaves devastated landscape above lahore to afghanistan, Indian Forces capture entire POK and Aksai chin. Taliban smells blood moves in with jihadi takes over what is left of pakistan. Indian Forces cut pakistan in two halves along rahim yaar khan landscape. Taliban and India make a deal, India won't provide any support to Ameri-khan, Taliban will not launch any jihad against India. Truce is a temporary peace till both sides regroup for final fight in next 10 years. India closes its border with Islamic Republic of Taliban. Shoot at site orders are issues, no enquiry, no jurisprudence on what happens in NW Border area.
War ends on Jan 15th, 2016. There is a tacit understanding between Hindu India, ME Crescent; Your fight is in other direction not towards east.
Had a nice something to smoke did you? :P
Actually it is very nice...I hope it comes true. :wink:
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Post by SaiK »

Are you guys saying hit the water flow table with a k-15 simulating an asteroid hit?, then the water diverts back to our plains? that would kill the pakis down right. not nice to even think about the sufferings. but, kya karega.
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Post by sunilUpa »

From Express link

[quote]BALASORE: After successful test-firing of the nuclear-capable submarinelaunched ballistic missile (SLBM) K-15 yesterday, a defence scientist on Wednesday termed the exercise as a ‘stupendous success’.

“The year-long patience and monthlong massive preparation by the defence scientists finally paid off as all the pre-coordinated parameters set by the mission team met 100 percent,â€
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Post by ramana »

Good stuff. The DDM report (youtube video) I posted also said the same. Strangely even though the new conf was on Wednesday there were no reports or coverage all of last night. :(
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Post by Arun_S »

The 500 second flight time is in agreement with 700km trajectory matching ROCKSIM results.

What no one has pointed out yet is the shape and size of the "Tilak" atop the second stage. That will be the first pic of new RV for Indian BM family. I do hope it shows an object 1.5m long and 42 cm diameter at base.
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Post by MN Kumar »

Any idea about how much time a Nuclear Sub takes to go out to sea after the reactor has been fuelled?
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Post by SaiK »

MN Kumar wrote:Any idea about how much time a Nuclear Sub takes to go out to sea after the reactor has been fuelled?
few seconds! :twisted: .

honestly, you would never get this data. :roll:
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Post by Gerard »

Et tu Janes?

Sagarika test firing heralds India's SLBM capability
The turbojet-powered 8.5 m-long missile was initiated by the Aeronautical Development Establishment in the early 1990s
When even specialist military publications write about turbojet ballistic missiles, what hope for the mainstream press?
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Post by ramana »

Never minds its the old friend DDM Rahul Bedi!
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Post by Gerard »

SaiK
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Post by SaiK »

possible to post complete article here? or is it copy righted?
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Post by Gerard »

Put the title into google and do a search. Then click on the cached version.
You will get the text
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Post by k prasad »

Arunji,

Made a rough analysis of the dimensions of the launcher from the Sagarika pic... is it approximately accurate?? Coz I made only a very rough estimation.

Image

Is it possible that this tube is only used for launching the missile without the underwater booster, which would allow for the length to go upto the requisite 11 m?
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Post by Anujan »

SaiK wrote:
possible to post complete article here? or is it copy righted?
I can summarize it for you. The missile is a dud, it has only 435 mile range. It can hit only half of pakistan if launched from paki coast. (insert nice picture here). It cant even threaten china. India doesnt know how to make missiles, so unlikely it can ever make one to hit china. India did it simply because of pride.

Yawn. I think it will be a beautiful sight to see the article go up in the exhaust smoke of the next A-III test. Somebody wake me up then and send me the stratfor article about how A-III cannot hit american satellites circling the moon.
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Post by Arun_S »

k prasad wrote:Arunji,

Made a rough analysis of the dimensions of the launcher from the Sagarika pic... is it approximately accurate?? Coz I made only a very rough estimation.

Image

Is it possible that this tube is only used for launching the missile without the underwater booster, which would allow for the length to go upto the requisite 11 m?
Prasadji: I dont know the answer unless I do a regiorus vetting of your assumption. I am not sure if you have provided your assumptions in that dimensioned image. Why dont you put down your assumption on how did you arrive at the scaling factor. That will making it easier for lay reader too. Besides I nowdays I hop across threads in a drive by shooting mode, due to paucity of time for serious contribution.
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Post by p_saggu »

Gerard wrote:Put the title into google and do a search. Then click on the cached version.
You will get the text
:!: You genius you.
Doesn't work for Janes though... :cry:
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Post by Singha »

Any idea about how much time a Nuclear Sub takes to go out to sea after the reactor has been fuelled?

I believe all things equal its same for sub and CVN at around 2 hrs. in a crisis deployment both are supposed to clear harbour and hit full speed for a sustained phase to leave behind enemy submarines lurking near the coast.
so they need those steam plants at full capacity before hitting the start button.
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Post by John Snow »

Image
Israeli Dolphin sub.
According to Israeli sources, the three Dolphin-class submarines will give Israel a crucial third pillar of nuclear defence to complement the country's already much-vaunted land and air ramparts. While the Israelis' intention of using the German submarines as roving nuclear launch platforms had long been suspected, few experts had expected them to develop the capability to fire submarine-based cruise missiles so soon.
http://www.fas.org/news/israel/e20000619israelmakes.htm

so technically we can fit the K15 in existing subs itself till such time ATV arrives.

Kilo
Image
Last edited by John Snow on 29 Feb 2008 09:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by krishna_krishna »

The article mentions clearly about submarine launched cruise missile by israel which they tested from german made submarine and not the ballistic missile as is the case with our K-15 , probably we can fire nirbhay from them but not K-15
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Post by Singha »

practical limitation on torpedo launch is around 6m due to size of torpedo
room and handling eqpt. whever Israel uses must fit within 21" diameter and
6m length...so it cannot be a fast ballistic missile but more a slow SLCM.

has its uses but not K-15's assured speed and throw weight.
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Post by k prasad »

Arun_S wrote:
k prasad wrote:Arunji,

Made a rough analysis of the dimensions of the launcher from the Sagarika pic... is it approximately accurate?? Coz I made only a very rough estimation.

Image

Is it possible that this tube is only used for launching the missile without the underwater booster, which would allow for the length to go upto the requisite 11 m?
Prasadji: I dont know the answer unless I do a regiorus vetting of your assumption. I am not sure if you have provided your assumptions in that dimensioned image. Why dont you put down your assumption on how did you arrive at the scaling factor. That will making it easier for lay reader too. Besides I nowdays I hop across threads in a drive by shooting mode, due to paucity of time for serious contribution.
I couldnt find the height figures for the Tata 8x8, but used the dimensions for the closest relative I could, the Tatra T815 8x8, which is 3240 mm tall (See). Assuming it be be 3 m, you can see the perspective line drawn to the rear of the vehicle. sing the pixel dimensions at the rear, I calculated the length and diameter of the tube. However, I do think that it will be slightly longer than I calculated, at around 9.5-9.7 m, since I havent considered perspective in 3 Dimensions. Plus, I would have to make extra corrections in case the height has been underestimated by a foot, since in that case, the absolute error in the tube length will be higher, probably around 20-40 cm.
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Post by Drevin »

Gerard wrote:Put the title into google and do a search. Then click on the cached version.
You will get the text
damn nice. It works.
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Post by krishnan »

Very old article


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/164792.stm
Mr Fernandes said that India is also developing a cruise missile system called 'Sagarika'.
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Post by Austin »

John Snow wrote: so technically we can fit the K15 in existing subs itself till such time ATV arrives.
Knowing the dimension of what K-15 is ( 11 x 0.7 m ) , it will not be possible to do that , mainly because none of the subs are of modular type , hence you cant cut a kilo add a K-15 module and things start rolling , unless you redesign the Kilos for it from scratch , not worth IMHO

The only option is the new class of conventional sub we are planning to buy , these can be designed built to accommodate K-15 plus Brahmos ( we might need a hump for the new design since K-15 length is 11m compared to brahmos 8.5 m) not a wise thing to do for a conventional sub , drag and power requirement consideration

hence I feel the K-15 SLBM will be limited to ATV.
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Post by Philip »

Since the existene of K-15 and the underwater "pontoon"has now been revealed,we can now discuss an idea which I supressed for a long time for obvious reasons.As an interin measure until the ATV arrives,we could use underwater barges/pontoons,equipped with several missiles in their silos and tow them to secret bastions close to our naval bases.It would be easy to hide such installations.However,sicne the ATV is arriving sooner rather than later along with the Akulas,the need for such 'nuclear barges",a naval version of land based mobile launchers,might not be needed.Still,the idea of mine could be examined as it could complement our SSBMs,being considerably cheaper to build and operate.
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Post by babbupandey »

Is it financially viable to invest in that kind of infrastructure given that the official range of K-15 is only 700 kms. Also, such "static" infrastructure can be detected by enemy quite easily.

Philip wrote:Since the existene of K-15 and the underwater "pontoon"has now been revealed,we can now discuss an idea which I supressed for a long time for obvious reasons.As an interin measure until the ATV arrives,we could use underwater barges/pontoons,equipped with several missiles in their silos and tow them to secret bastions close to our naval bases.It would be easy to hide such installations.However,sicne the ATV is arriving sooner rather than later along with the Akulas,the need for such 'nuclear barges",a naval version of land based mobile launchers,might not be needed.Still,the idea of mine could be examined as it could complement our SSBMs,being considerably cheaper to build and operate.
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Post by alokgupt »

p_saggu wrote:
Gerard wrote:Put the title into google and do a search. Then click on the cached version.
You will get the text
:!: You genius you.
Doesn't work for Janes though... :cry:
The article in Stratfor is written by likes of Ravi. Somehow the author thinks that India is building SLBM for Porkistan. India's primary enemy - China.
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Post by Gerard »

underwater barges/pontoons,equipped with several missiles in their silos and tow them to secret bastions close to our naval bases.
Interesting... both mobile and easily hidden... silos without the disadvantages.
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Post by Sanku »

Gerard wrote:
underwater barges/pontoons,equipped with several missiles in their silos and tow them to secret bastions close to our naval bases.
Interesting... both mobile and easily hidden... silos without the disadvantages.
Not to mention the protection provided by the sea itself to the depth of 50 M
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Post by John Snow »

Sanku wrote:
Gerard wrote: Interesting... both mobile and easily hidden... silos without the disadvantages.
Not to mention the protection provided by the sea itself to the depth of 50 M
Folks dont you think such stationary launching pilons or silos be detected by satellites? IR detectors the difference between waters around and the silo. What about corrosion etc?
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Post by disha »

John Snow wrote:Folks dont you think such stationary launching pilons or silos be detected by satellites? IR detectors the difference between waters around and the silo. What about corrosion etc?
Sink several dummy pontoons all over the place. Some of them can have real fat ladies which sing once in a while. Lizard has now several targets to take out to ensure a 100% kill - which they will never be able to achieve. Problem solved

Regarding corrosion, make the pontoons out of fibreglass painted duly in red colour - we can take the leaf out of this from our neighbour. Fibreglass will not corrode and will also provide an environment for fisheries. 100% SDRE soln.
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Post by ramana »

The ATV comes online in a couple of years and this would be redundant.

Philip the reason why they dont have surfaced ship based assets is they are destabilizing for they invite a first strike. The Italians were to have a ship based SLBM in the mid sixties and the idea got dropped.

To me the future sub-based vehicle will be some thing that will put a skip glider type payload to give it stand off range. Something thats near Dolphins nose area and can send it anywhere.
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Post by SaiK »

Exactly, we better invest in the noise reduction and signature reduction technologies, including those silicon-poly rubber products that support noise reduction inside the sub., for washers between nuts and bolts, fire resistant carpeting, NBC suites, etc.
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Post by Rahul Shukla »

AOA!

So the idea is to drop real K-15 pantoons sprinkled within the dummy pantoon distribution?

1). They will be detected by satellite.
2). MPA's will decipher real ones from dummies.
3). Uncle's rig will come and steal (tow) away a couple of pantoons from 'international waters' for analysis.

Yindoos will be left crying chor, chor. However, uncle will say he didn't steal any K-15+Nuke+Pantoon but simply "borrowed without permission", with intention to give back sometime during the next 5 decades. :lol:
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Post by Dilbu »

Rahul Shukla wrote:AOA!

So the idea is to drop real K-15 pantoons sprinkled within the dummy pantoon distribution?

1). They will be detected by satellite.
2). MPA's will decipher real ones from dummies.
3). Uncle's rig will come and steal (tow) away a couple of pantoons from 'international waters' for analysis.

Yindoos will be left crying chor, chor. However, uncle will say he didn't steal any K-15+Nuke+Pantoon but simply "borrowed without permission", with intention to give back sometime during the next 5 decades. :lol:
Like they borrowed the grenade or explosive whatever that was mumbai blast evidence and 'misplaced' it. Once an Unkil always an Unkil. :D
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Post by k prasad »

Dilbu wrote:Like they borrowed the grenade or explosive whatever that was mumbai blast evidence and 'misplaced' it. Once an Unkil always an Unkil. :D
When did this happen?? I have no idea about this..
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