Long range Agni missile & test launch :Part-1

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Postby Dilbu » 29 Apr 2008 01:57

ManuJ wrote:
Baljeet wrote:needs to read Indian History more closely where Jim Corbett killed thousands of tiger whilst he was a Gora Sahib under Gora Rule.


Baljeet, can you please tell me where you read this interesting fact? I know of Corbett killing big cats, many of them man-eaters, but thousands?!

My 2 paisas. We are a responsible nation. Not crybabies or inhuman like our neighbors. It is our way of life to protect the innocent creatures and at the same time ensure the missiles are tested. We can do it and we will do it.

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how secrecy

Postby kvraghavaiah » 29 Apr 2008 17:02

I am always very surprised about how these DRDO people are able to keep many things secret. like, the agni's range, nuclear bombs, new missiles, technologies, etc. Better if I had one close relative working in DRDL, so that i could try to know the facts.

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Postby Paul » 29 Apr 2008 17:05

ManuJ wrote:
Baljeet wrote:needs to read Indian History more closely where Jim Corbett killed thousands of tiger whilst he was a Gora Sahib under Gora Rule.


Baljeet, can you please tell me where you read this interesting fact? I know of Corbett killing big cats, many of them man-eaters, but thousands?!


Maneaters of Kumaon?

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 29 Apr 2008 17:34

Paul wrote:
ManuJ wrote:
Baljeet wrote:needs to read Indian History more closely where Jim Corbett killed thousands of tiger whilst he was a Gora Sahib under Gora Rule.


Baljeet, can you please tell me where you read this interesting fact? I know of Corbett killing big cats, many of them man-eaters, but thousands?!


Maneaters of Kumaon?


I am a particular fan of Jim Corbett, know his life story by rote, have many biographies of his (such as The Carpet Sahib) and have been to his house in Kaladunghi in Himalayan foothills as well as the Gurney House in Nainital. He did use to kill tigers for "sport" but mostly he was occupied full time in killing man eating tigers and leopards. It was a different era. However, in his later years, he became a conservationist and only shot tigers with his camera. He did not kill "thousands" of tigers, but I rekon not more than 50 in his whole lifetime.

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Postby gauravjkale » 29 Apr 2008 18:10

Baljeet wrote:I am not an expert in Turtle Conservation, here is my question, What does saving little critters have to do with security of a nation. If I know anything about nature, if there is a reasonable number of species survive they will bounce back in given time.
Why is the security and Mil Tech held hostage to the whims of few Johlawalas? Is it because they will loose their prime time on National Geographic or some other Gora Media. Anyone who thinks national security is secondary to some Kachua, kabootar, and anything else <don't kill me..just being sarcastic> needs to read Indian History more closely where Jim Corbett killed thousands of tiger whilst he was a Gora Sahib under Gora Rule.


have never read such ridiculous argument....

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Postby saumitra_j » 29 Apr 2008 18:55

Baljeet wrote:needs to read Indian History more closely where Jim Corbett killed thousands of tiger whilst he was a Gora Sahib under Gora Rule.

Baljeet, with due respect to your sentiments about testing, IMHO you are very wrong about Jim Corbett, who has actually has saved the lives of uncountable number of village folks of present day Uttaranchal from man eaters. Like Shivji says - we are a dharmic country onlee and it is our duty to protect the turtles, even if we are to test missiles.

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Postby Venkarl » 29 Apr 2008 19:01

arey arey ...we don't need a reason. do we?
..missiles>>testing>>turtles>>Tigers>>Jim Corbett>> now villagers... brothers please...do not make this another arjun thread[which got one (of many) locked recently]

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Postby satyarthi » 29 Apr 2008 19:37

An aside, but tigers in India were killed by tens of thousands (not just thousands) during late 19th and early 20th century. Kings used to go on organized hunts and British were often honorary guests. Jim Corbett was only a small part of the whole carnage, and he actually did a good job of killing maneaters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Population_in_India
The Bengal tiger population in India at the turn of the twentieth century was estimated to be about 40,000. In 1972, however, the first Indian tiger census was conducted, revealing the existence of only 1,827 tigers.


I think missile tests and Ridley's can both coexist.

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Postby John Snow » 29 Apr 2008 19:58

Testing, Turtles
Missiles ,Maneaters
Corbet, shooters
Agni, Burners
we indians rhyme
but for many
no reason is no brainer

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Postby Anujan » 29 Apr 2008 21:39

shiv wrote:
Baljeet wrote:I am not an expert in Turtle Conservation, here is my question, What does saving little critters have to do with security of a nation. If I know anything about nature, if there is a reasonable number of species survive they will bounce back in given time.
Why is the security and Mil Tech held hostage to the whims of few Johlawalas? Is it because they will loose their prime time on National Geographic or some other Gora Media. Anyone who thinks national security is secondary to some Kachua, kabootar, and anything else <don't kill me..just being sarcastic> needs to read Indian History more closely where Jim Corbett killed thousands of tiger whilst he was a Gora Sahib under Gora Rule.


Baljeet our dharma will ensure that we will protect those turtles AND test those missiles.


Interesting Tidbit
Address by President of India Dr A.P.J. Abdul Kalam during dedication of LaCONES to the Nation

It was interesting to find from the LaCONES write up, that Olive Ridley turtles are the ancestors to other known Ridley turtle species. I thought of sharing with you about my experience with Olive Ridley turtles in Orissa coast. In my previous assignment, I was leading a missile team and established a launch complex in the Wheeler Islands. {look at the humility of the man !} While working on the launch complex, I received a message from Prof Padma Hejmadi, a Conservationist saying that the lights in the range created problems in hatching of the Olive Ridley turtle. I invited her. We discussed and studied the problem with our team. To my surprise, we found that the neighbouring wheeler island was full of Olive Ridley turtles which had come for hatching from thousands of kms. Olive Ridley turtles lay large number of eggs probably with the hope that at least few will survive after the attack from the birds and movement of people on beach! The hatched young ones and mothers go back to sea. We took number of facilitating measures such as controlled lighting whenever needed and reducing the movement of people and vehicles on the beach. This really enabled unhindered propagation of Olive Ridley turtles. Thus I started liking the promotion mission of Olive Ridley turtle. Certain government regulations were also promulgated regarding the type of permissible fishing nets and prohibition of catching Olive Ridley turtles

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Postby p_saggu » 30 Apr 2008 13:55

Yes sure protect the oliver ridleys by turning off the lights by all means, but also be sure to protect yourself from those two legged turtles that might walk into the missile complex from the sea, with somewhat more nefarious purposes...

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Postby dini » 30 Apr 2008 14:12

there are plenty of salt water crocodiles in those waters to take care of the two legged turtles that try to reach the islands.

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Postby Gerard » 03 May 2008 18:00

All set for critical test of Agni III
is likely to be launched between May 5 - May 9

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Postby saip » 03 May 2008 18:47

:"Agni-3 is an intermediate range missile with a range over 3000 meters.

Dont they have proofreaders? I am worried about self fulfilling prophecy only.

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 05 May 2008 02:28


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Postby A Sharma » 05 May 2008 09:01

From sanjaychoudhry link

[quote]Top DRDO sources told The Hindu on Sunday that the proposed launch would be a “validation testâ€

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Postby Arun_S » 05 May 2008 09:10

My guess is that this test will involve using a upper stage motor that is now made of composite material. Very likely a 3 stage missile. Aka Agni-3A version. I think they are still searching their cajohns (little balls lost in the Pokhran) for the MIRV configuration hence, will most likely carry RV-Mk3, all this press report of MIRV is lets say just bakwas.

It is another matter that India will do physics defying Rope trick of launching the Agni missile to 5500Km range only, to physics literate realists that is only possible if the RV is carrying a SAIL steel ingot weighting 2.5 tonne. Talk of Neanderthal man owning a rocket missile armed with steel tip. :wink:

So for people who believe in Aryabhatta's math this flight will reach final velocity of 5.9km/sec (relative frame) 6.2km/sec (inertial frame) and flight time of ~ 650 second (11 min).

Also look out for launch weight.

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Postby Nayak » 05 May 2008 09:57

An MP Speaks Up For Endangered Olive Ridley Turtles

Sunday 04th of May 2008
A lone voice has emerged from the corridors of power to plead for the endangered Olive Ridley turtles in Orissa - seeking a ban on all missile tests from Chandipur during April and May every year.

Bhartruhari Mahtab, a member of the Lok Sabha from Cuttack, has raised the issue in the house and plans to take up the matter with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh if his concerns are not heeded promptly.

As a matter of urgent public importance, Mahtab raised the issue in the Lok Sabha last week. He is not willing to wait indefinitely.

'April and May are the crucial time for the turtles to nest, and any missile test would adversely affect the nesting process. The government should stop any missile tests during these two months,' Mahtab told IANS.

Mahtab has even sought advancing of the Agni missile test, scheduled for some time next week, from Chandipur.

'There is no nesting also in and around the Wheeler Islands from where the missiles are test-fired. The missile tests are having an adverse impact on the nesting of turtles,' Mahtab added.

Orissa is home to three mass nesting sites of the Olive Ridley turtles, namely Nasi Islands of the Gahirmatha beach in Kendrapada district, the Devi river mouth in Puri district and the Rushikulya river mouth.

'Nasi islands are near Wheeler Island and have the world's largest nesting sites with over 700,000 turtles laying eggs on the beach every year. No mass nesting has been reported from Gahirmatha and Devi river mouth so far,' Mahtab added.

However, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has denied the test firing could have adversely affected the nesting of turtles and said it could be due to some other reasons.

'The missile testing takes place only after securing the concurrence of other agencies concerned. Shaded and inverted lights are used during the testing, which have no adverse impact on environment,' an official source in the DRDO told IANS.

'The test firing takes place during day time. It takes only two or three seconds for a missile to take off. Thus, the chances of nesting getting affected by the missile test are very remote,' the official added.

WWF India activists feel there is a need to look beyond the hype over missile testing as the reason. They feel there could be many other obvious reasons, including trawler nets, to disturb the nesting and hatching of turtles.

'The missile tests may or may not be the reason for the missing nesting in an area. Heavy activities or bright lights can be a deterrent, but it has not yet been scientifically established,' Michael Peters, state director, WWF-India, told IANS on phone from Bhubaneswar.

As per an estimate of wildlife organisations, around 15,000 Olive Ridley turtles on an average get killed every year. About 90,000 turtles were estimated to have been killed in the past nine years.


(Rajeev Ranjan Roy can be contacted at rajeev.r@ians.in)

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Postby svinayak » 05 May 2008 11:15

Nayak wrote:An MP Speaks Up For Endangered Olive Ridley Turtles

Sunday 04th of May 2008
A lone voice has emerged from the corridors of power to plead for the endangered Olive Ridley turtles in Orissa - seeking a ban on all missile tests from Chandipur during April and May every year.

Bhartruhari Mahtab, a member of the Lok Sabha from Cuttack, has raised the issue in the house and plans to take up the matter with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh if his concerns are not heeded promptly.

WWF India activists feel there is a need to look beyond the hype over missile testing as the reason. They feel there could be many other obvious reasons, including trawler nets, to disturb the nesting and hatching of turtles.

'The missile tests may or may not be the reason for the missing nesting in an area. Heavy activities or bright lights can be a deterrent, but it has not yet been scientifically established,' Michael Peters, state director, WWF-India, told IANS on phone from Bhubaneswar.

As per an estimate of wildlife organisations, around 15,000 Olive Ridley turtles on an average get killed every year. About 90,000 turtles were estimated to have been killed in the past nine years.


(Rajeev Ranjan Roy can be contacted at rajeev.r@ians.in)


Somebody has paid these guys to make th noise just before a test which is a defy test against the intimidation on the nuke deal

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Postby Nayak » 05 May 2008 12:11

Agni-III to be tested for third time

The testing of missile in April and May has, however, left the wildlife lovers worried. ‘‘The Government has an agreement with DRDO which stipulates certain measures to help protect the turtles and facilitate nesting. As per the understanding, the DRDO should refrain from test-firing at least during this critical period,’’ Chief Wildlife Warden B.K. Patnaik said in the letter to DRDO.

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Postby Shankar » 05 May 2008 15:07

y guess is that this test will involve using a upper stage motor that is now made of composite material. Very likely a 3 stage missile. Aka Agni-3A version. I think they are still searching their cajohns (little balls lost in the Pokhran) for the MIRV configuration hence, will most likely carry RV-Mk3, all this press report of MIRV is lets say just bakwas.


the upper stage which most likely have been already integrated will not be made public for sure to discount the ICBM potential of agni 3
as regards the balls well we wont find them till the government changes next year

It is another matter that India will do physics defying Rope trick of launching the Agni missile to 5500Km range only, to physics literate realists that is only possible if the RV is carrying a SAIL steel ingot weighting 2.5 tonne. Talk of Neanderthal man owning a rocket missile armed with steel tip. Wink


even with high altitude motor integrated agni 3 is just 5000 kms range because the throttling back of solid motors to avoid disturbing the turtlesAnd then as you said indian physics is diffrent from nasa physics

So for people who believe in Aryabhatta's math this flight will reach final velocity of 5.9km/sec (relative frame) 6.2km/sec (inertial frame) and flight time of ~ 650 second (11 min).

Also look out for launch weight.


since this is still a guesing game

final velocity 6.9 km/sec-7.1 km/sec
flight time - 12-12.5 minutes
payload actual - 1500 kg

number of turtles disturbed = 1257

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Postby Shankar » 05 May 2008 15:12

Back in July 2001, observers animatedly discussed a Topol test launch, in which the warhead demonstrated a clearly non-ballistic performance. Someone suggested the warhead had special engines capable of generating enough thrust for a maneuver at high altitudes and at very high speeds.

However, the topic was highlighted again only three years later during the Security 2004 exercise. An RS-18 -- also known as the SS-19 Stiletto in NATO designation -- carried a new experimental re-entry vehicle that in effect "bounced" between the upper atmosphere and outer space. This maneuver is incredible as a normal re-entry velocity for a warhead is around 5,000 miles per hour. The test vehicle, however, defied skeptics and successfully survived all the maneuvers thanks to its effective heat and G-load protection systems.

Such maneuverability renders a missile system a crucial surprise advantage, as the adversary cannot launch a fire-and-forget interceptor weapon because no anticipated point of contact is known or can be reliably calculated. Normally, the Topol-M carries one warhead but, unlike other strategic ICBMs, it can be easily upgraded with an advanced warhead carrying up to three independently targetable re-entry vehicles.

The warhead fires off the vehicles in midcourse, changing direction twice a minute to fool warning radars as to where the charges are heading. Each vehicle is assigned an individual target at up to 100km (60 miles) from the separation point.

As Russian Chief of Staff Colonel Gen. Yuri Baluevsky put it, "The vehicle can successfully avoid monitors and penetrate all missile defense systems, including the ones still under development.

the Topol-M, powered by three solid-propellant boosters, accelerates faster than earlier ICBMs and is accordingly less vulnerable to that kind of attack. The missile also has scores of auxiliary jets and a state-of-the-art flight control system that enables a three-dimensional, or 3D, avoidance maneuver capability from the first seconds of flight.

And on top of everything else -- in every sense -- is the nuclear re-entry vehicle, in fact a ramjet-boosted supersonic cruise missile whose additional sustainer engine accelerates it to between Mach 4 and Mach 5

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Postby pranab » 05 May 2008 16:22

Acharya wrote:Somebody has paid these guys to make th noise just before a test which is a defy test against the intimidation on the nuke deal


Sorry to interrupt u but what the hell will happen if we defer the test by a week or two.
The beaches of Orissa provide one of the last nesting grounds of the Olive Ridley turtles in the world.

If this test was so urgent,why didnt they do it earlier?????

I am from Orissa n i am as much concerned abt the safety of these turtle as abt the testing of our longest range misslie..

Thanxx

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Postby satyarthi » 05 May 2008 16:36

pranab wrote:I am from Orissa n i am as much concerned abt the safety of these turtle as abt the testing of our longest range misslie..

Great, then you can literally be a life saver for this thread. Since you are from Orissa and are greatly concerned about the Ridleys, could you please rent a boat or something and photograph the Ridley's in anguish this week or next week, especially during any missile launches if possible? That will save a lot of bandwidth on this forum and in rest of the cyberspace. Thanks in advance.

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Postby Sanku » 05 May 2008 16:38

pranab wrote:Sorry to interrupt u but what the hell will happen if we defer the test by a week or two.


Pranab; if you look at the pages on this thread; every one cares about the turtles as much as you do and probably more.

Also a quick scan of the thread will show how DRDO is actually engaged in conservation of turtles and how have they been helped since the test range was setup by GoI taking a greater interest in the area and having better facilities to stop killing etc. The tests factor in the turtle nesting season during monsoons too.

It is on this basis that the current launch window is chosen. In that light the crib of one arbit person seems very suspicious to say the least.

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Postby ramdas » 05 May 2008 20:29

It is becoming clearer that testing by itself is unlikely to affect turtle nesting. The lights used to be a problem, but that issue has also bee addressed by DRDO. Illegal bangladeshis indulging in fishing in the area, and miscellaneous other above board and not so above board commercial activities do far more damage to turtles than DRDO can do. So, instead of opposing missile testing, much more will be done for turtles as well as for security by oppsing bangladeshi settlers in the area. As for arundhati roy types, they will keep making noise.

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Postby Naidu » 07 May 2008 02:19

http://howrah.org/india_news/11599.html

N-capable Agni-III test-firing likely today
By SRIDHAR KUMARASWAMI

New Delhi, May 6: India is likely to conduct another test of its Agni-III nuclear-capable intermediate ballistic surface-to-surface missile off the Wheeler Island in Orissa very soon, probably as early as Wednesday. The Agni-III missile is designed to have a flight-range of 3,500 kms which will bring much of China within its range.

Defence minister A.K. Antony accompanied by top scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) are likely to witness the launch. "The test is likely to be conducted very soon. It could be conducted as early as 10 am on Wednesday," South Block sources said.

The missile was initially supposed to have been launched in the last week of April. But the launch was delayed slightly following an appeal by wildlife experts in Orissa to postpone the tests due to the nesting season of the endangered Olive Ridley turtles.

India has, all along, lacked a credible nuclear-delivery system that could penetrate the Chinese heartland in stark contrast to China which has missiles capable of hitting every corner of India. Agni-III is designed to support both conventional and nuclear warheads, with a total payload weight of 600 kg to 1,800 kg. Analysts say the missile is designed to deliver a nuclear payload to the tune of 200-300 kilotons.

Most probably, the Agni-III missile will be fired by making use of solid fuel propellant unlike the short-range Prithvi missile as well as earlier versions of the Agni surface-to-surface missile. The Agni-III missile features two solid-fuel stages with overall diameter of 1.8 metres. This diameter is compatible with the recently tested sub-surface launch system. The missile’s first stage booster is made of advanced carbon composite materials to provide high mass fraction. It weighs about 24 tonnes and has a length of seven metres. The second stage is also made of advanced carbon composite materials weighing around eight tonnes with a length of 2.5 metres.

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Postby Avid » 07 May 2008 02:28

from TOI excerpts:
  • 700-km-range Agni-I (12-tonne)
  • 2,500-km-range Agni-II (17-tonne)
  • AGNI-III weight of 48 tonnes and a warhead of 1.5 tonnes ~ 49.5 tonnes 3,500 km


How does that work, 12 ton to 17 ton - we go from in range from 700 to 2500 km (5 ton increase for 1800 km increase in range), and then a huge increase to 49.5 ton for range of 3500 km (32.5 ton increase for 1000 km increase in range)

What gives? or is it DDM-itis

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Postby Raman » 07 May 2008 02:40

Avid,

Thats because us Yindus are very poor at rocketry. We can get range >4000km only if we launch PSLV sideways.

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Postby gogna » 07 May 2008 03:00

Well worth a read before the A3 test if you haven't already, straight from the horses mouth.

=================
Next objective: a 5,000-km Agni
Interview with Avinash Chander, Director, Advanced Systems Laboratory, and Programme Director, Agni-III mission.
Apr 21-May 04 2007 Frontline Issue


How do you assess the success of the Agni-III missile flight on April 12 2007?

A-3 (Agni-III) has been an important programme for us, primarily because the Agni-I and Agni-II systems were an extension of technologies we were using since the 1970s. They had virtually reached the limit of their capabilities. Agni-I has a 700-km range, which can be extended with minor modifications. Agni-II has a 2,000-km limit. But if you really want to have matching capabilities with respect to your ambience, it is imperative that you must talk of a missile with a range of 3,000 km plus or 3,500 km. That is how the Agni-III programme began.

We thought of Agni-III not as a missile but as a system for the future, with which various configurations can be developed. The project was sanctioned in 1998, but work began only in 2001 because we were busy with the first trial of Agni-II, which took place in 1999 and gave us the confidence for an all-solid system. We had a high-priority programme coming in between, which was Agni-I, whose project director was D.P. Rao. In 2000-01 we were absorbed in making Agni-I feasible for the western sector.

We began real work on Agni-III only in 2001. It was the first time that the DRDO had taken up fabrication of such large rocket motors - two metres in diameter, with about 30 tonnes of solid propellants in the first stage and nine tonnes in the second stage. It had flex [flexible] nozzle control, which no other country had used for the first stage, during the atmospheric phase of the flight. These were the challenges. The [payload] re-entry itself was a challenge because its velocity was five metres a second with a very steep re-entry lasting not more than 20 to 25 seconds, ambient temperatures going to 4,000°Celsius, skin temperatures reaching 2,500°Celsius and the deceleration going down anywhere between 30 g and 16 g. So, the whole environment was totally different from that of even Agni-II. It required a much more compact, capable vehicle.

We had to set up our own propulsion plant because there was a total separation of activities between DRDO and ISRO [Indian Space Research Organisation] because ISRO was for totally peaceful uses. We had to build the infrastructure for propellant casting, right from raw material to the actual motor realisation and testing. We did all this in five years. For the motor we have flown now, the raw material came from our captive plants, the motor castings were made at our plant in Chhattisgarh, and we did the static test.

What were the reasons for the failure of the first flight in July 2006?

There has been a lot of misconceptions about the failure. When the vehicle is going through a supersonic regime with a flex nozzle, the exhaust jet expands in the higher atmosphere. There is a supersonic aerodynamic jet coming inwards. The hot jet stream expanding outwards and the aerodynamic jet coming inwards at the base of the vehicle started interacting. This is a phenomenon that happens for this class of vehicles. But its severity depends on the size of the nozzle, the gap between the nozzle and the base shroud covering the nozzle, and the time spent in the interactive region because this phenomenon starts only in the higher atmosphere and the supersonic regime.

Was it not anticipated?

Its severity was not anticipated. We had provided a barrier but the barrier was inadequate. Some of the hot gases were entering the base shroud covering the nozzle. In that area, we have some sensitive electronic packages for controlling the nozzle. In this case, the nozzle moves and we have all the control systems housed in that. When the interactive flow started going back into the base shroud and the high-temperature hot gases started entering inside, it caused some of the electronic cables to lose their insulation, leading to short-circuit and damage to the control system. The vehicle lost control at 65 seconds [after lift-off] and tumbled. The stage separation did happen as expected, under the tumbling circumstances.

Did the vehicle break up into bits?

It did not break up into bits. It was structurally sound. Within a day, we could identify that loss of control had happened. We could identify what had failed. But the main issue was what caused it to fail. Was it a random failure of a component, which was an easier theory, or was it some other phenomenon happening? That is why the Prasad Rao Committee was formed. Our teams went into the extreme details, into each and every event, and we could identify the causes of the failure.

The teams struggled for two months to produce the exact signatures of the failure as observed in the flight. We could reproduce each and every signal, which we had telemetered in failed condition, by plotting exactly which wire shorted at what time and that was the strength of the teams, which gave us the confidence, "Yes, we have identified the problem", and we knew how to take care of it.

The solution was relatively simple. We had to put a flexible barrier, a thermal protection system, all round the nozzle, which prevented all interactive hot gases from entering inside. But the barrier should withstand 1,400°Celsius and yet allow the nozzle to move freely. That was the challenge that B. Sankara Rao and his team met successfully. That is what we have now flown and we have met all the objectives.

Where does this successful flight place India among the missile powers? We have the Agni family of missiles - Agni, Agni-II, Agni-I and now Agni-III.

Today we have a total gamut of these systems. Agni-I is western-sector specific. It is a single-stage system. It is under induction. Agni-II, which has a dual role, in the western and eastern sectors, is also under induction. Both had certain limitations in covering the total geopolitical threat in our region. Agni-III fills that vital gap in our defence capability.

The most important point is that with minor modifications in this system we can have the capability for a 5,000-km range, which gives you the strategic depth of deployment so that from within your country you can target any potential threat-areas within this region. That is what gives you the strength.

We have the platform, which can be deployed for any role. From central India, you can hit any target, whether [it is] in the east or the west. It has the reach for any target from central India. Your vulnerability becomes that much less.

Another important dimension is that nobody has this 3,000-km-plus range, except Russia, the United States, France and China. That is where we stand.

We are now talking of a quantum jump from 3,000 km to 5,000 km range. It will be totally indigenous.

Do you plan to do it by adding one more stage?

We will be adding one more stage within the same dimensions and practically with the same weight. It will be small. We will be doing some weight-saving and adding some.

Liquid upper stage?

No.

So, all the three stages will be powered by solid propellants?

All solid.

Can it be qualified as an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM)? An ICBM should have a minimum range of 6,000 km.

They are all variables. Different people have different yardsticks: somebody says 6,000-km-plus or 10,000 km, or continent to continent. But our final range is 5,000 km. That is what matters.

Dr. K. Santhanam, former Chief Adviser to the DRDO, told me that Agni-III gives teeth to our minimum nuclear deterrence capability. Can you expand on that?

The A-3 system is rail-mobile, like A-2. The future 5,000-km-range missile we are planning will be road-mobile. That gives it immunity from vulnerability. The second thing is that it can reach targets that no aircraft can reach.

The missile system [Agni-III] we are making has state-of-the-art inertial guidance, highly accurate sensors with high immunity from jamming. We have no communication with the ground once we take off.

Fire and forget?

Totally fire and forget. Since it is not looking for any data from the ground, no enemy can jam it or divert it or affect its path. Except for an active interception, there is no way one can stop it.

Most of the operations are done in the initial phase except some of the manoeuvres we are planning in the future in order to overcome the interception possibility. Today, once it [Agni-III] is fired, the stages are burnt out and separated, only a small warhead re-enters the atmosphere.

Since there is no communication from the ground, you cannot jam the onboard electronics. We feed the launch-point coordinates from the ground, the system computes the performance of the propulsion system and, based on it, estimates its own path and what will be the best trajectory to take it to the target. All the computations are done on board. There is an inertial guidance system, which measures the position of the missile; the onboard computer with the guidance and algorithm stored computes the path, which is then controlled by the manoeuvring of the nozzle to steer it.

The velocity accuracy we need to achieve at injection is 0.1 metres a second. While the actual velocity of the vehicle is 5,000 metres a second, you should be able to differentiate 5000.1 or 5000.2 metres a second and measure it correctly. That is the type of accuracy required and that is what we have been able to achieve in these systems.

The teeth we are talking of is that it is a totally indigenous system, indigenously designed and indigenously produced, leaving aside some electronic components...

How did you overcome embargoes and technology denial regimes?

The only way to overcome the embargoes is to start our own developmental effort. That is what we did for the inertial navigation system. Software was always our strength. We never went for any consultancy on design. The main issue was hardware, sometimes raw materials. We went in a major way for raw materials from industries such as MIDHANI and for support from laboratories such as DMRL [Defence Metallurgical Research Establishment] for establishing the processing technologies.

We established in-house the fabrication technologies for the re-entry vehicle structures. All the onboard computers, navigation systems and algorithms were developed by our scientists. The advantage is that we have a great strength in software. We have a good availability of engineers and experts. We tried to make the best use of whatever material available and modify the processing technology to overcome the difficulty - whether it was heat-shield, thermal structure, onboard sensors or basic rocket motor casings. That was our main strength. Of course, we received tremendous help from the industry. In Agni-III, I can't think of any component that was made in-house. Every component came from the industry.

Do you plan to have some more trials of Agni-III?

Yes. We will have a couple of more developmental tests and a couple of tests with the user.

China has pushed far ahead of us in missiles. It has ICBMs that have a range of more than 12,000 km.

Today, the Chinese have the whole gamut of missiles. But as far as their capability is concerned, we have equivalent capability. In terms of weights and performances, we are matching.

Not in range?

Range is a question of political requirement. Today, our country is talking of 3,000 km and 5,000 km to meet our... The Chinese have a different need. But as far as our capability is concerned, we have the capability to match the range also.

Can you elaborate on your remark that Agni-III is not a just a missile but a system for the future.

With this two-metre diameter [Agni-III] system, we are flying 3,000 km. With a small stage added, it becomes a 5,000-km system. Even though I do not use the same motors, with certain improvements and using the same technology modules I can generate another system, which can take multiple warheads. I can generate a system with a combination of warheads and decoys. Modules of same technology and sizes can be integrated into a system, which can be launched from different kinds of platforms. That is why I said it is a base that we have created, not just a missile. It makes the entire future open.

The infrastructure is there with us. The technology and industry are there with us. All that is needed is modularising to our requirenments. That has been the major achievement of this programme.



Excerpts from the interview:
Full article here
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2408/ ... 802300.htm

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Postby Paul » 07 May 2008 03:55

Satyarthi wrote:Great, then you can literally be a life saver for this thread. Since you are from Orissa and are greatly concerned about the Ridleys, could you please rent a boat or something and photograph the Ridley's in anguish this week or next week, especially during any missile launches if possible? That will save a lot of bandwidth on this forum and in rest of the cyberspace. Thanks in advance.


I have friends hailing from Balasore and they tell me that the Dhoom'Dhadaka at the testing range goes on "24/7/365" and this has disturbed the flora and schedule of everybody there .Apparantly the water on the beach is black from the pollution and it used to be very different 15-20 years ago. On top of this authorities can and do impose curfew any time in the district when the missile launchers need to be moved to/from the testing range.

While we are all cognizant of the importance of these activities to national defence effort, a word of appreciation towards our patriotic Oriya biraders is very much in order. They are putting up with a lot of trouble country's defense.

One can only imagine the shennanigans we would have to put with if this testing range were set up in WB. Thank god for that.

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Postby rahulm » 07 May 2008 04:58

The Hindu interview of Avinash Chander is excellent for the details it provides.

Shri Chander needs to add Israel to his list with their Jericho III.

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Postby Brando » 07 May 2008 05:25

Paul wrote:While we are all cognizant of the importance of these activities to national defence effort, a word of appreciation towards our patriotic Oriya biraders is very much in order. They are putting up with a lot of trouble country's defense.

One can only imagine the shennanigans we would have to put with if this testing range were set up in WB. Thank god for that.


Actually I read a report that the entire testing range is not totally secure as per what should be the norm. Many village still exist with the security zone and the government has not relocated them completely. Thus the curfews and other stuff. Civilians have no place near a test site.

At the earlies the government should quarantine that area and relocate all civilians within a 50 square kilometer radius of that area for national security. If an ISI intelligence operative is camping out in those villages it would be very easy for defectors to pass information and foreign operatives to gather intelligence there. Even the coast guard and the navy should have a makeshift base there to sterilize the water ways in and around the test range to prevent covert surveillance through submersible craft and other naval reconnaissance systems.

The current lazzie-farie attitude is very dangerous, especially when the entire nation's security is determined by the delivery systems being tested there .

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Postby Anurag » 07 May 2008 05:27

rahulm wrote:The Hindu interview of Avinash Chander is excellent for the details it provides.

Shri Chander needs to add Israel to his list with their Jericho III.


Now what does that mean....can you elaborate please?

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Postby satyarthi » 07 May 2008 05:35

Gogna,

The url you have put in your profile ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuUirw7Jzi0) is probably messing up the page formatting. Please remove the url and see whether it helps.

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Postby Paul » 07 May 2008 06:50

Brando wrote:
Paul wrote:While we are all cognizant of the importance of these activities to national defence effort, a word of appreciation towards our patriotic Oriya biraders is very much in order. They are putting up with a lot of trouble country's defense.

One can only imagine the shennanigans we would have to put with if this testing range were set up in WB. Thank god for that.


Actually I read a report that the entire testing range is not totally secure as per what should be the norm. Many village still exist with the security zone and the government has not relocated them completely. Thus the curfews and other stuff. Civilians have no place near a test site.

At the earlies the government should quarantine that area and relocate all civilians within a 50 square kilometer radius of that area for national security.


Not ginna happen...Chandipur is located in prime agricultural land and is the source of income for lot of farmers. They magnamimously gave up liberties to enable this range to come up. To get a background suggest reading up newspaper articles in the late 80s.

If an ISI intelligence operative is camping out in those villages it would be very easy for defectors to pass information and foreign operatives to gather intelligence there.


This HUMINT info is already being collated most likely through PRC satellites and passed on to Slumabad. So I am not sure what useful technical parameters the resident barber will pass on to his fellow abdul in pindi.



The current lazzie-farie attitude is very dangerous, especially when the entire nation's security is determined by the delivery systems being tested there .


sorry to puncture your psy-ops trial balloon here....but per my sources the security is quite tight there. Even in Pokhran they have villages close to the test sites. This is a uniquely Indian phenomenon, not easily understood by a PRC drone, Paki Abdul, or the other usual suspects from totalitarian states. India does not deprive it's farmers of it's livelihood for security or economic gains like is done in PRC or even the west.

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Postby rahulm » 07 May 2008 07:05

Anurag,

The robust root cause failure analysis process in the interview indicates programme maturity and self - confidence.

The details about the interial guidance with no command guidance after lift off implies course cannot be altered nor can the missile be command destroyed by the user after the missile is launched. Besides high immunity from jamming does it also fit NFU and so no turning back once we fire in anger?

The emphasis on the seperation between ISRO and DRDO. This is particularly important as ISRO's profile is increasing rapidly and will be more so with the imminent Chandrayaan-I launch.

The first stage flex nozzle.

The velocity accuracy required at launch and crucially the instrumentation required to measure.

All in all, Agni-III is more than a missile. Its is now a modular scalable system. A platform that can realise delivery systems in line with current and future threats. Shri Chander has clearly stated that the Agni-I and II platforms have reached the end of their potential.

Jericho-III has a range of more than 3000 kms, so Israel is part of the club he is referring to.

Regards

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Postby Brando » 07 May 2008 07:50

Paul wrote:Not ginna happen...Chandipur is located in prime agricultural land and is the source of income for lot of farmers. They magnamimously gave up liberties to enable this range to come up. To get a background suggest reading up newspaper articles in the late 80s.

Like they have a choice in the first place. Land can be aquired by the government at any time without the owners by or leave as long as compensation is provided. There is no right to land guaranteed by the Indian constitution. At most the farmers can go to court for the next 100 years over the compensation but thats all. They cant contest the governments decision to aquire land.
Paul wrote:This HUMINT info is already being collated most likely through PRC satellites and passed on to Slumabad. So I am not sure what useful technical parameters the resident barber will pass on to his fellow abdul in pindi.

No matter how clear the images from the satellite are, I would expect the trials be done taking into account those considerations but the advantages of having men on the ground outweighs any INT from reconnaissance satellites. As for defectors, numerous blatant breeches have occured even in New Delhi, not expecting the same from this remote location is just foolhardy.
Paul wrote:sorry to puncture your psy-ops trial balloon here....but per my sources the security is quite tight there. Even in Pokhran they have villages close to the test sites.

Security is quite tight ?? Yeah I'm sure it is.

I live right next to a defense complex called Research Center Imarat, it is considered a vital research center and you can ask anybody there and they will claim that the security is very "tight" but that "tight" is relative to what they consider "tight". Any tom, dick and harry can go for a drive in that locality at any time of the day and night. At most they would be stopped and asked for their driving license, thats all. Compare that to say what they have the Electric Boat Corp at Groton, CT where you cant even approach the dock yard, the difference between "tight" is apparent.

As for India not depriving its farmers for economic or security gains, please preach this propaganda to somebody who would actually believe it, I know different. The babu's would just as soon demolish entire villages and hand them over to developer's and MNC's without any hesitation. Security however takes a back seat because there is no profit from doing the right thing.

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Postby Anujan » 07 May 2008 08:17

Arun_S wrote:My guess is that this test will involve using a upper stage motor that is now made of composite material. Very likely a 3 stage missile. Aka Agni-3A version. I think they are still searching their cajohns (little balls lost in the Pokhran) for the MIRV configuration hence, will most likely carry RV-Mk3, all this press report of MIRV is lets say just bakwas.

Arun Saar, a paanwallah, new to the trade told me that chunaa is also important in making paan and pointed me to this in the A-III context. Rakshaks might find it interesting.
Strategic Inertial Navigation Systems
HANCHING GRANT WANG and THOMAS C. WILLIAMS
HIGH-ACCURACY INERTIALLY STABILIZED PLATFORMS FOR HOSTILE ENVIRONMENTS

During the Cold War, the United States developed a three - pronged strategic deterrence capability, the Strategic Triad, consisting of widely dispersed landbased intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) carried by strategic submarines, and nuclear bombs carried by long-range strategic bombers.

The navigation systems for ICBMs, SLBMs, and, to a lesser extent, strategic bombers share three requirements that set them apart from virtually all other navigation systems: the need for extreme accuracy in a self-contained system, the need for high operational reliability, and the need to survive and operate in extremely hostile man-made nuclear-radiation environments. These requirements have spawned an abundance of innovations in the design of inertially stabilized platforms (ISPs) for strategic navigation systems.

This article provides an overview of the technical challenges and solutions for ISP designers for strategic inertial navigation systems (INSs).

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Postby Singha » 07 May 2008 09:48

dr charles draper founder of draper labs adjacent to mit resolved that issue
with ARIS (adv inertial reference sphere) where inert gas is used to suspend
and lubricate the moving parts. google for ARIS.


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