Long range Agni missile & test launch :Part-1

Arun_S
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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 01:39

satyarthi wrote:
Arun_S wrote:I first coined the name Agni-III SL on BR missile page. How come India is now officially naming it identically?

When news media parrot BR articles, that is coming of age of BR..

That tells us how much paucity of information, including paucity of accuracy of information, there was earlier regarding Indian missiles.

Now the Russian Gen says A-3 can go 5000km (with its stated payload 1500kg). Which anyone could observe from the range vs payload graph on the BR missile pages. Just that one graph is a bombshell.

Thanks to the BR team for pushing the envelope.

It was only few weeks ago someone was questioning my Yindu mathematics on Agni's range. Unfortunately I have seen many people who will not lift a pencil to do basic math or read books to verify, but will at a moments notice join the street corner neta in slogan shouting. OTOH Secularist will however implicitly trust the gora Russian General's words, and possibly could believe this pagan's statement. How ironic of India! Thank you Ivan.
Image Click to enlarge.

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Postby satyarthi » 08 May 2008 01:42

[quote="Rahul Shukla"][quote="sanjaykumar"]Even during the plasma effect (which disturbs the communication), data was received. “This means we have continuous data till the end,â€

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Postby Rahul Shukla » 08 May 2008 01:47

satyarthi wrote:...low frequency waves do get affected but can penetrate plasma to a greater depth than high frequency waves...

Yes! Plasma upto 10 cm deep can be penetrated by a low frequency signal of ~2.0 - 2.2 GHz.

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Postby satyarthi » 08 May 2008 01:48

Arun_S wrote:It was only few weeks ago someone was questioning my Yindu mathematics on Agni's range. Unfortunately I have seen many people who will not lift a pencil to do basic math or read books to verify, but will at a moments notice join the street corner neta in slogan shouting. OTOH Secularist will however implicitly trust the gora Russian General's words, and possibly could believe this pagan's statement. How ironic of India! Thank you Ivan.

What was the nationality of the person who questioned?

But anyway, in a weird way, Ivan may have convinced such people. Vodka, I hear, helps people swallow many uncomfortable things including pride.

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 02:17

ramana wrote:Good show. Now AIII is operational. One chapter closed. On to next edition.

Arun, Why the RLG system? And look at the single digit accuracy!

Accuracy is a big casualty in missiles with long flight time (I.e. long range BM missiles). As one increase the accuracy of long range missiles, the need for Multi Mega tonne yield quickly drops to the base level of ~200kT.

INS inaccuracy largely stems from IMU's Gyro inaccuracy and not from accelerometer precision. (IMU = Inertial Measurement Unit). Ring Laser Gyro (RLG) increases the INS accuracy by at least an order of magnitude. Apart from the fact that is more resistant to vibration or high linear acceleration experience during boost phase and re-entry phase.

Also it need to be re-emphasized that the previous A3-D2 was 48 tonne liftoff mass, and now TS.Subramanium has confirmed the A3-D3 mass was 50 tonne. I have an inkling of what is going on. :wink:

End note: If the missile has very high accuracy then precision dispersal of a dozen 20/50kt MIRVs can have disastrous effect on military/hard targets, comparable to the effect of slightly less accurate missiles of yesteryears with higher yield MIRVs.
And look at the single digit accuracy!
I take that to read that the missile hit within 10% of the CEP circle. I.e. The bulles eye circle (with in the CEP) where probability drops to 10% of the missile hitting it.
Last edited by Arun_S on 08 May 2008 02:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Anujan » 08 May 2008 02:24

Arun_S wrote:Also it need to be re-emphasized that the previous A3-D2 was 48 tonne liftoff mass, and now TS.Subramanium has confirmed the A3-D3 mass was 50 tonne. I have an inkling of what is going on. :wink:


No third stage, same fuel mass, if at all the casing should have lost weight if it is composite instead of maraging steel. Where did this additional 2t come from ? A steel model of 4 flower petals inside the cone to check out flight parameters ? or 1.4t fuel 2t weight HAM/PBV ?

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Postby ranganathan » 08 May 2008 02:28

Arun the diameter is also quoted as 2.0 m opposed to 1.8m. What gives?

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Postby bala » 08 May 2008 02:38

The next goal besides range enhancement (need to get Europe, Australia and others in the friendly umbrella :) ) for the DRDO team is to make the Agni Topol-M like in feature.

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 02:49

Hilarious Kangaroo news report : "Today's test was a confidence-building exercise" :lol: :lol:

India tests nuclear-capable missile

From correspondents in Bhubaneswar, India | May 07, 2008

INDIA'S military today tested a medium-range nuclear-capable missile which can hit targets inside China, its third such test in two years, defence research officials said.
The Agni-III missile, India's longest-range ballistic missile, was fired from a testing site on Wheeler Island, 180km northeast of Orissa state capital Bhubaneswar.

"Today's test was a confidence-building exercise meant to fine-tune the missile,'' a defence official said, asking not to be identified.

The missile, which has a 3000km range and can carry nuclear or conventional warheads, was first tested in 2006.

The trial of the Agni was a flop when the missile travelled 12km and crashed into the sea without hitting its target.

The failure was blamed on a snag with its strapped-on solid fuel booster rocket. India successfully tested the 1.8 metre-diameter missile in April 2007

Kangaroo brains strapped on unkills musharraf

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Postby putnanja » 08 May 2008 03:02

Agni-III test-fired successfully

...
The intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM) was test-fired from a Rail-mobile launcher from the launch complex (LC-4) of the integrated test range. The A3 Rail Mobile System is capable of launching the missile from anywhere in India.

Agni-III is a two stage solid propellant system with a length of 17 mts, diameter of 2 mts and launch weight of 50 tonnes with a capability of carrying a pay-load of 1.5 tonnes.

The missiles re-enters into the atmosphere with a very high velocity and experiences a de-celeration of more than 35 g and a temperature of more than 2500 degree Celsius, but the pay-load is protected by all carbon composite heat sheet.
...

Though the defence Ministry is tight-lipped about India's nuclear deterrent assets, international strategic study groups estimate that India currently has 18-36 Agni-II, IRBMS with a range of 3500 kms, 8-16 missiles of Agni-I, MRBM with a range of 900 kms.

Besides this, India is supposed to have in operation 150-180 short range surface-to-surface Prithvi missiles with a strike range of upto 330 kms.

Weighing about 48 tonnes, the Agni-3 missile was first test-fired on July 9, 2006 but it failed to meet its mission objectives due to cascaded failure of booster flex nozzle controller.

However, during the second test conducted on April 12, 2007, the entire flight path of 15 minutes duration validated all mission objectives, DRDO scientists said.

Though defence scientists had planned more than three tests of the missile before its induction but after today's copy-book launch, they said that the missile is ready for induction.

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 03:12

ranganathan wrote:Arun the diameter is also quoted as 2.0 m opposed to 1.8m. What gives?


Boss I was the one who spun this 1.8m roumor mill in the early haydays, to obfuscate the 2.0m actual diameter. That caught even father of MTRC into its spin:
[url=http://www.npec-web.org/Essays/060207SpeierICBM.pdf]Dr. Richard Speier, February 7, 2006:: India’s ICBM – On a “Glide Pathâ€

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Postby Anujan » 08 May 2008 03:31

[quote="Arun_S"]Boss I was the one who spun this 1.8m roumor mill in the early haydays, to obfuscate the 2.0m actual diameter. That caught even father of MTRC into its spin:
[url=http://www.npec-web.org/Essays/060207SpeierICBM.pdf]Dr. Richard Speier, February 7, 2006:: India’s ICBM – On a “Glide Pathâ€

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Postby bala » 08 May 2008 03:32

[quote]Dr. Richard Speier, February 7, 2006:: India’s ICBM – On a “Glide Pathâ€

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Postby Gerard » 08 May 2008 04:23

Richard Speier is the guy who is responsible for the MTCR's 500kg | 300km specification


:eek:
Gawd.. and here I thought he was a run of the mill Ayatollah.
He is actually Grand Ayatollah and Prophet, author of sacred MTCR texts?

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Postby Raja Bose » 08 May 2008 04:41

What is also interesting is what is Daddu on left coyly whispering into Madamji's ears? :P

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Postby raja_m » 08 May 2008 04:42

N-capable Agni-III ready, but aircraft remain first choice

The former chief of India's Strategic Forces Command has done a reality check on the missile euphoria. Air Marshal TS Asthana has dropped a bombshell declaring that the Indian armed forces still regard fighter aircraft as the only reliable delivery system for nuclear weapons.

"Today it is the air which would be the greater reliance factor as far as India is concerned, the answer to that would be yes," Air Marshal Asthana says.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/ncapable-agniiii-ready-but-aircrafts-remain-first-choice/64791-3.html

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Postby Raja Bose » 08 May 2008 04:50

Despair not Shukla ji,....Tessa Madam ji with her Usha Uthup-ishtyle sari looks like she can single handedly turn any brown pant patloon and his chini gadha/godhi missile to ashes by just one angry stare.

Rahul Shukla wrote:So disappointing vs. the pristine brown pant platoon at every gadha/ghodi launch avenue. Yindoos are doomed... there is no hope!

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Postby svinayak » 08 May 2008 04:51

[quote="bala"][quote]Dr. Richard Speier, February 7, 2006:: India’s ICBM – On a “Glide Pathâ€

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 04:54

Gerard wrote:
Richard Speier is the guy who is responsible for the MTCR's 500kg | 300km specification


:eek:
Gawd.. and here I thought he was a run of the mill Ayatollah.
He is actually Grand Ayatollah and Prophet, author of sacred MTCR texts?

When the heavens were drafting MTCR, the lead congressmen ran into this young energetic staff and asked him what the constraining specification should be to reign in and save the 3'rd world SRDE countries from the dangerous weapons. Hrr Dr Speier ran into the high temple of Nooledge(sic) to speak to a weapons designer and asked what will be a 3rd world world countries ab initio weapons developers capability to miniaturize the N weapon to fit into a missile. The Weapons-Gwad thus speakth "500kg", and bam that word was etched into the Ayothullah's monolith.

For the range my memory is hazy but the legend (nay the history) ran like this:

Then the Ayothullah looked at the desktop model of Globe (the Earth-e-shasthra) and using a thread he measured and saw that to lob the bum across width of small countries in Iurope the mizzile has to fly 300km.

And bam that 300km word was etched into the Ayothullah's monolith.

And thus the Grand Ayothullah gave the specification to the holee father Maha-Gwad and so is the law of the lewd made for the mortals to follow at the peril of drawing the ire of the Lord.

Well the script looks more of a slave mine operation than egalitarian socialism, much less true spiritualism or divinity :evil:

Google and you may find explicit excerpts.
Last edited by Arun_S on 08 May 2008 05:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Anujan » 08 May 2008 04:57

raja_m wrote:N-capable Agni-III ready, but aircraft remain first choice

The former chief of India's Strategic Forces Command has done a reality check on the missile euphoria. Air Marshal TS Asthana has dropped a bombshell declaring that the Indian armed forces still regard fighter aircraft as the only reliable delivery system for nuclear weapons.

Bad case of DDM-itis trying to whip up a sensation. There is a reason the word "Triad" is used in Indian nuclear posture. Just because A-III was a resounding success, we wont abandon aircraft based delivery. As a case in point, even Unkil and Russie field long range strategic bombers (B2/Blackjack) even though they have their ICBMs. It is well known that bombers are survivable, reliable and can be called off as well. Missiles play a different role. Hint: try launching a MKI from ATV, I am no aircraft expert but think that the runway might be a tad short.

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Postby shiv » 08 May 2008 05:12

The Air Marshal has to say that - or our politicians will soon believe that aircraft are unnecessary since we have missiles "See how Pakistan manages without new aircraft but has better mijjiles than us?" they will ask.
:roll:

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Postby Baljeet » 08 May 2008 05:15

Arun boss
What is this Russian General talking about, "this is the first time any missile has been tested that passed over equator". I was under the impression AII had the flight envelope that crossed equator. IOW, what is the significance of crossing equator?
Need some Gyan? 8)

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Postby ranganathan » 08 May 2008 05:20

raja_m wrote:N-capable Agni-III ready, but aircraft remain first choice

The former chief of India's Strategic Forces Command has done a reality check on the missile euphoria. Air Marshal TS Asthana has dropped a bombshell declaring that the Indian armed forces still regard fighter aircraft as the only reliable delivery system for nuclear weapons.

"Today it is the air which would be the greater reliance factor as far as India is concerned, the answer to that would be yes," Air Marshal Asthana says.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/ncapable-agniiii-ready-but-aircrafts-remain-first-choice/64791-3.html


If these guys have a confidence shortage, they should do more user testing of missiles than relying on aircrafts which won't even make it half way to shanghai before being blown out of the sky.

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Postby Gerard » 08 May 2008 05:30

With the ATV+K15 imminent for the navy and the Agni series being inducted by the army, the air force has to fight for its share of the triad.
Unlike the USAF, there won't be silo fields it can man... mobile missiles demand the sort of security that the army is better at...

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Postby Raja Bose » 08 May 2008 05:33

well well well....IBN at it again...whats new? :roll:

The entire article is based on putting a spin on the Air Marshal's remarks, putting words in his mouth and drawing illogical and conflicting conclusions from it.

Air Marshal Asthana is quoted as saying fighter aircraft are the more reliable source of nuke delivery.....our dear reporter Thapar immediately concludes that they are the only reliable source of delivery...and then proceeds to again quote the Air Marshal saying that fighter aircraft are more vulnerable to getting shot down hence are less reliable. Hence, by Lahori logic both missiles and aircraft are unreliable so India is nook-nude and all is well in NPA world. QED.

raja_m wrote:N-capable Agni-III ready, but aircraft remain first choice

The former chief of India's Strategic Forces Command has done a reality check on the missile euphoria. Air Marshal TS Asthana has dropped a bombshell declaring that the Indian armed forces still regard fighter aircraft as the only reliable delivery system for nuclear weapons.

"Today it is the air which would be the greater reliance factor as far as India is concerned, the answer to that would be yes," Air Marshal Asthana says.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/ncapable-agniiii-ready-but-aircrafts-remain-first-choice/64791-3.html

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 05:41

Baljeet wrote:Arun boss
What is this Russian General talking about, "this is the first time any missile has been tested that passed over equator". I was under the impression AII had the flight envelope that crossed equator. IOW, what is the significance of crossing equator?
Need some Gyan? 8)

Using A3-D2 and A3-D3 India has for the first time tested missiles that crossed Equator.

Can A-II cross equator? Yes.
Has it been tested where it crossed one? No.

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Postby bala » 08 May 2008 05:49

Acharya wrote:This is all part of the spin. They want Desis to jump up and down and want somebody to come and point it out that they are stupid. Desis love to correct and show that they are correct and know it all. Desis get excited to show their stuff and point mistakes in others. They will be laughing behind the curtain.
Then they will mark the target.Psycology of desis are well studied for long.


That is your spin or conspiracy theory.

The intended audience of the article is not desis but the policy makers and others in GotUS. They care two hoots about the veracity of Indian rockets etc. All they want to know is whether it threatens them and by golly, Herr Speier says so and they want to know what the Pentagon/State Dept. should do. They (pentagon/sd) turn their heads around and nod the same way as Herr Speier and wham India is sanctioned to the hilt and SD types convey their veiled threat of economic embargo/other "pressure points" and immediately Indian leadership is forced to rethink their next Agni test.

Bush / Rice did not fall for this crap and so they sent Gates / General to India to say it is okay to test Agni.

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Postby Arunkumar » 08 May 2008 07:07

Rahul Shukla wrote:
Prasant wrote:OMG ! One of the guys in the pic is a schoolmate of mine !

There is only one 'guy' in the picture (unless you're ~ 50 yrs old). So the Amitabh Bachchan in the photoo was your school mate?

Ok.


Since this also happens to be Agnee-path , he can be refered to as Vijay Dinanath Chavan. :)

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Postby hnair » 08 May 2008 07:23

I dont think the IBN report is a big deal. The good Air Marshall is trying not to create enemies in far parts of the globe where none exist today. If he says it is the MKIs that will carry the flowers, a lot of people out of that particular aircraft's range can continue nibbling their rancid cheese and sleep happy.

Personally I believe that photo in front of the missile should not have been released after the launch. Maybe in a report or book. But then, what the heck! The gents (and lady) in sandals will fade back into their homes amongst the billion that they protect. Americans would have loved it if they could appreciate such Eastern subtleties - true Marvel superhero stuff :P

Both Acharya and Bala are right. US Senators are scared enough by the utter BS of "GSLV-missile's" massive girth to pump money into ABM projects and Indians are forced to "clarify" the capabilities due to such public display of disbeliefs. Both factors help the NPA.

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Postby vsudhir » 08 May 2008 07:39

Americans would have loved it if they could appreciate such
Eastern subtleties - true Marvel superhero stuff


Heh.
Its authentic superhero stuff alrite but dunno how much the yankees would understand much less appreciate understated nuance so much these days. "Got it? Flaunt it" is the mantra aajkal so typical of the please-notice-me generation.

Both Acharya and Bala are right. US Senators are scared enough by the utter BS of "GSLV-missile's" massive girth to pump money into ABM projects and Indians are forced to "clarify" the capabilities due to such public display of disbeliefs. Both factors help the NPA.


The NPA's are joined at the hip with GOTUS. They're shown separate only for plausible deniability. The same NPAs said/did nothing abt the cheen-pak nexus violating NPT and MTCR, following GOTUS winking onlee. If GOTUS (the executive starting with the WH and the NSA) wants to sanction, it will find a way- with, w/o or despite the NPA lobby (with is more likely).

JMTPs etc.

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 08:04

Zee TV news started with breaking news of Agni test news but they only showed the following image of Bharat Rakshak's Agni-III diagram, they just slowly zooming in and replyed the zoom in 4 times for the all the time the news reader talked of Agni test.

Image

I am a little surprised they had nothing else to show and had to repeat it 4 times.

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Postby Austin » 08 May 2008 08:18

Arun saar , many news channel and news paper in India , including le ading national daily are picking up information/images from BR Agni page , which is very heartening to see.

Congratulation DRDO for the successful Agni 3 Test :) Now time to test Agni-2 AT .

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Postby shiv » 08 May 2008 08:31

Arun_S wrote:Zee TV news started with breaking news of Agni test news but they only showed the following image of Bharat Rakshak's Agni-III diagram, they just slowly zooming in and replyed the zoom in 4 times for the all the time the news reader talked of Agni test.

Image

I am a little surprised they had nothing else to show and had to repeat it 4 times.


Ah it was only Agni 3. They would have shown a lot more if it had been Agni ho-3

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 08:34

Austin wrote:Arun saar , many news channel and news paper in India , including le ading national daily are picking up information/images from BR Agni page , which is very heartening to see.

Congratulation DRDO for the successful Agni 3 Test :) Now time to test Agni-2 AT .

Austin saab,
It is heartening for me too, in that India is seeing & using BR material and getting an Indian perspective.

Could you collect those news print and scan them for me please?

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Postby ranganathan » 08 May 2008 08:39

shiv wrote:Ah it was only Agni 3. They would have shown a lot more if it had been Agni ho-3

The worst PJ I have heard in a while. :lol:

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Postby Austin » 08 May 2008 08:46

Arun_S wrote:
Could you collect those news print and scan them for me please?


Aurn saar , work is keeping me busy but I can do that , will take some time though.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 08 May 2008 08:59

Arun_S wrote:Zee TV news started with breaking news of Agni test news but they only showed the following image of Bharat Rakshak's Agni-III diagram, they just slowly zooming in and replyed the zoom in 4 times for the all the time the news reader talked of Agni test.

Image

I am a little surprised they had nothing else to show and had to repeat it 4 times.


Ah yes, but did they give the proper credits for the image they were showing?

In any case, I would say a congrats goes to Arun for his work here.

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 09:21

Austin saab: Thanks.

Now some news from further off biraathers

[quote=http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=109691&d=8&m=5&y=2008]Arab: News :: Major Chinese Cities Within India’s Range After Agni-III Test[/quote]
[quote]Nilofar Suhrawardy, Arab News

NEW DELHI, 8 May 2008 — India joined the ranks of nations possessing intermediate-range missile capabilities with the successful launch of Agni-III missile yesterday. The test came days ahead of the 10th anniversary of 1998 Pokhran nuclear tests.

The “golden launchâ€
Last edited by Arun_S on 08 May 2008 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 09:23

I missed this news that had some imp pieces:
HINDU: Agni-III launch on May 7

[quote]HYDERABAD: The long-range nuclear-capable, surface-to-surface Agni-III ballistic missile is scheduled to be launched on May 7 from the Integrated Test Range on Wheeler Island, off the Orissa coast.

This will be the third test of the missile having a range of more than 3,500 km. The first conducted on July 9, 2006 failed to meet the mission objectives, while the second trial held on April 12, 2007 ended in a roaring success.

Top DRDO sources told The Hindu on Sunday that the proposed launch would be a “validation testâ€

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Postby sanjaykumar » 08 May 2008 09:56

In any case, I would say a congrats goes to Arun for his work here.

Indeed so.


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