Long range Agni missile & test launch :Part-1

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Postby rocky » 08 May 2008 19:37

I didn't know the SS-20 had potato mashers like the RVV-AE!

Image

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Postby Hersh » 08 May 2008 19:39

I have some questions going round in my head..can the gurus in this forum pls help in answering them:-
1]
a]Why launching a missile in a trajectory crossing the equator difficult ?
b] What are the technical challenges involved?
c] What have we gained from this?
d] Why have other powers not tested this trajectory so far?

2] We tested a A3 for 350km and 800 sec . As per the comments on this forum I understand that we could verify a lot of params like heatshield's efficacy control systems etc. but does it also ensure that when we launch a missile for its actual range for which missile should be functioning for say 30min-60min(I am just guessing here) all control systems,engines and heatshields will perform as well? Being a s/w engineer couldnt help but think about softwares working for an hour but crashing after say 10hours :).

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Postby Austin » 08 May 2008 20:08

Gerard wrote:Any speculation why the launch pics show no white puff ring around the nose?


Yes they forgot to click it :wink:

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Postby rocky » 08 May 2008 20:12

Austin wrote:
Gerard wrote:Any speculation why the launch pics show no white puff ring around the nose?


Yes they forgot to click it :wink:
You mean they forgot to take a picture of it ...

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Postby Arun_S » 08 May 2008 22:01

Those press photos are like Bikini. Just reveal enough to be titillating, yet cover vital parts from probing eyes.

Let flashing be a flash only. :wink:

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Postby Prabu » 08 May 2008 23:16

Arun_S wrote:
H.B.Krishna wrote:
"We established that the SLV-3 solid rocket system would meet the national requirements of payload delivery vehicles for short and intermediate ranges (4000 km). We contended that the development of one additional solid booster of 1.8m diameter with 36 tonne of propellant along with SLV-3 subsystems would meet the ICBM requirement (above 5000Km for 1000 kg payload). This proposal was however never considered. It neverthless paved the way for the formulation of the Re-entry Experiment (REX) which, much much later on became Agni. "

But Saar, doesn't this vindicate West's fear (rather psychosis, viewing non papal India a threat) that India can develop ICBMs from its space program ?


Yes India is a equal equal to west. India will be happy to follow Wests example. If West has not Missile and rocket programs joined at hip, they have as much entitlement to ask India for uber abstinence as Prostitutes have to preach of virginity and monogamy.
Truth is the way it is. West doesn't like it they can stick it up their rear end, and no more preaching the gospel to heathen India.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Well done DRDO FOR A III.
Arunji !! thanks for all the inputs !

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Postby p_saggu » 09 May 2008 01:32

Image in the Hindustan Times Article. Arun_S any copyright issues involved here?
Image

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Postby disha » 09 May 2008 01:56

p_saggu wrote:Image in the Hindustan Times Article. Arun_S any copyright issues involved here?


:eek: They cannot even get the failure reason right! Are they confusing GSLV with Agni? Idiots. And look at the text so many grammatical errors. And even the images are not photochor'ed properly !!! Should not PTI be able to take complains against them?

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Postby Anujan » 09 May 2008 02:01

p_saggu wrote:Image in the Hindustan Times Article. Arun_S any copyright issues involved here?

Choice quotes:
* "Width" 1.8 meter. {wonder what the thickness is}
* First test was a flop, failure blamed on snag with its strapped-on solid fuel booster rocket :roll: {the mistake was rectified by replacing the strapped-on booster with a strap-on}
* Graphic: Bivash Barua/Sanjay Kapoor{The Indian models of latest offering from xerox}

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Postby ramana » 09 May 2008 02:13

Two articles from Hindu, 8 May 2008

India’s latest strategic weapon

With the flawless flight of Agni-III on Wednesday, a powerful new weapon — and one that can be built upon in the years to come — is practically ready to enter India’s strategic arsenal. While Agni-I can reach places 700 km away and Agni-II can take its warhead some 2,000 km, the all-solid, two-stage Agni-III missile has a range of over 3,500 km. Thus, the new missile will give the country’s strategic forces the ability to strike well beyond the imme diate neighbourhood. Moreover, adding a small third stage to the Agni-III configuration would produce a missile with a range of 5,000 km or more. Given DRDO’s proven solid propulsion capabilities, this should pose no major problem. Indeed, senior officials of the Defence Research and Development Organisation have stated that design work on Agni-IV has begun. It is noteworthy that Agni-III and its future variants, with a diameter of two metres, will be the first Indian missiles having the potential to be equipped with Multiple Independently-Targetable Re-entry Vehicles (MIRV). A single missile with MIRV can carry several nuclear warheads, each of which can target a different place. However, unlike the addition of a third stage, creating MIRV capability could pose significant technological challenges, especially in terms of reducing the size and weight of the warheads.

Across the border, Pakistan has been repeatedly testing Shaheen-II, its missile with the longest range that can strike much of India. Last month, the missile was fired twice in a space of three days. China, meanwhile, is in the process of modernising its strategic forces and switching from liquid-fuelled ballistic missiles to solid-propellant ones that can be launched quickly. Its latest submarine-launched ballistic missile, the JL-2, and the land-based variant of the missile, the DF-31, could soon be operationally deployed. A study published last year by analysts at the National Institute of Advanced Studies in Bangalore indicated that the JL-2/DF-31, with a diameter of two metres, was in fact a three-stage missile with MIRV capability. The missile’s three warheads might be arranged around a small third stage with a diameter of about one metre. They estimated that the missile in its MIRV configuration could have a range of about 8,000 km. With just a single warhead, the JL-2/DF-31’s range would increase to 12,000-14,000 km. Fortunately, all this activity on the missile front has not dampened overtures of friendship and efforts to reduce sources of tension between India and its nuclear-armed neighbours. Rather, it reflects a strategic mindset that seeks to augment military capability as a way of keeping the peace.



and
[quote]
DRDO developing hypersonic missile



T.S. Subramanian

CHENNAI: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is developing a hypersonic missile that could double up as a long-range cruise missile. Besides, it could be used for launching satellites at low cost, according to V.K. Saraswat, Chief Controller, R and D (Missiles and Strategic Systems), DRDO.

“This is a niche technology being pursued by the DRDO today,â€

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Postby Anujan » 09 May 2008 02:23

Arun_S wrote:Those press photos are like Bikini. Just reveal enough to be titillating, yet cover vital parts from probing eyes.
Let flashing be a flash only. :wink:

Arun-saar and others, Need some gyaan.
Our mijjiles are starting to look like our aircrafts-all shapes and sizes. How about phasing out A-II, A-I and A-II-at in favor of a single stage MIRV-ed A-III (to take care of the pigs) and standardize on A-III design ? Two/three stages for rich neighbors, one stage for the poor neighbors. Already produced A-I and A-II can be used for exercises and launch protocol training.

It is just a cost issue ?

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Postby ramana » 09 May 2008 02:25

No. Its like getting rid of the tack and general purpose hammers and stock only the sledge hammer. Will make it ineffective and un-usable. So need a full tool kit and not just the sledge.

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Postby ranganathan » 09 May 2008 02:45

The next good news should be the AD1/AD2 test.

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Postby Arun_S » 09 May 2008 04:06

p_saggu wrote:Image in the Hindustan Times Article. Arun_S any copyright issues involved here?
Image



yes sir. It is flagrant copyright violation.

I issued a an email and spoke to the Zee TV Group Editor yesterday. Looks like I need to also talk to Hindustan Times.

Baap Ka Maal Samjahaa Hai sab nay!!
No attempt to contact me or gives source & credit (very unlike NDTV that does a better job).

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Postby Anurag » 09 May 2008 04:09

Arun_S wrote:
Baap Ka Maal Samjahaa Hai sab nay!!


ROLMAO :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby Rahul M » 09 May 2008 04:10

DRDO developing hypersonic missile



T.S. Subramanian

CHENNAI: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is developing a hypersonic missile that could double up as a long-range cruise missile. Besides, it could be used for launching satellites at low cost, according to V.K. Saraswat, Chief Controller, R and D (Missiles and Strategic Systems), DRDO.


coming from anybody else I would have put this down to DDM-itis.

But if TSS quotes VK Saraswat, you have to take it seriously.
We already know that DRDO hypersonic vehicle is different from ISRO one.
what gives, BR gurus ??
would a HS missile config be enough to carry light sats to LEO ??
is this the dedicated military launcher BRFites been crying about ?? :)

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Postby Anabhaya » 09 May 2008 04:27

ramana wrote:No. Its like getting rid of the tack and general purpose hammers and stock only the sledge hammer. Will make it ineffective and un-usable. So need a full tool kit and not just the sledge.


I think A-II's can be used for training and the rest of the arsenal can standardise on A-I SR and A-3. Should cost too much to keep so many times besides training and logistics related issues.

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Postby Arun_S » 09 May 2008 04:29

I spoke to the brahma guru some time ago on the why the redundant 2 parallel hypersonic development by DRDO and ISRO. He said ISRO wants to pursue a path that is unstrained by downside of a military link.

I read that to mean USA and its cabal continue to do a: "Muh Main Raam, Bagal Main Choori"

The ******** are being ******** and the naive continue to be naive.
The latter may as aptly be replaced with the world Ch***ya, to be more true and applicable.

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Postby Arun_S » 09 May 2008 04:36

ramana wrote:I am still wondering about the 800 secs time of flight. It looks like the upper stage /payload adapter section flew or coasted for quite some time!

Boss you have hit the nail on the head.
I believe that was indeed the case. And the infeasible solution to Avinash Chandara's 350km and 800 second should be unambigiously clear to the countries that watched this test with interest.

GoI has a knack to put potent message in seemingly ordinary official words, that DDM will miss for sure but will home on the intended target like a Achook "Shabdha Baan".

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Postby shiv » 09 May 2008 05:25

disha wrote:
p_saggu wrote:Image in the Hindustan Times Article. Arun_S any copyright issues involved here?


:eek: They cannot even get the failure reason right! Are they confusing GSLV with Agni? Idiots. And look at the text so many grammatical errors. And even the images are not photochor'ed properly !!! Should not PTI be able to take complains against them?


Please list the errors and post in the "Nailing media errors" thread Thx

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Postby raja_m » 09 May 2008 05:27

Hmm... Given the current euphoria over the test, the missile's primary target seems to be extremely quiet. Any comments from the lizard?. Last time they came out with some statement about promoting peace and stability!!! :roll:

Dunno if the following is true, any BR gurus willing to comment:

In spite of such strategic implications for China, Chinese analysts somewhat surprisingly have not reacted to the Agni III program with alarm, seeing it as a symbol of Indian prestige to demonstrate India’s emergence as a power with global ambitions and not simply as an anti-China weapon. The recent strengthening of Sino-Indian military confidence building measures, in particular the May 29, 2006, signing of a bilateral memorandum of understanding on defense, has also served to reduce tensions. [17] In the past, China has not issued strongly negative reactions to Indian missile tests, and the lack of any official response to the Agni III test beyond casual reporting in the official news media is not surprising in the context of delicate, but improving Sino-Indian relations. It is also possible that Beijing avoided comment on the Agni III to avoid elevating India’s importance by suggesting that China was concerned about New Delhi’s growing nuclear missile capabilities.

http://www.wmdinsights.com/I8/I8_SA1_IndiaAGNAIII.htm

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Postby shiv » 09 May 2008 05:49

raja_m wrote:Hmm... Given the current euphoria over the test, the missile's primary target seems to be extremely quiet. Any comments from the lizard?. Last time they came out with some statement about promoting peace and stability!!! :roll:


If they react asking for peace. t is an indicator that they are either concerned or a merely reaching out

If they react with a ROTFL disdain - it is a provocation to make India angry.

If the do not react, you will not know how they feel. They will react at a time and place of their choosing. Then we on the forum will cry for several years and do more poojas of China god.

The point I am getting at is that we must do what we must do and not be concerned about "log kya kahenge". Looking for a Chinese reaction after one successful mijjile test is a typical example of looking for "Chini log kya kahenge?" which is a mistake. It means that we are looking for their response. Any clever entity will realise that and will tailor the response to cause us maximum takleef at a time when we least want to hear that.

Do what you need to do and balls to what the Chinese or anyone say..

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Postby John Snow » 09 May 2008 05:57

The lizard understands that
ICBM means Inter continental Brotherly Movement,
so they are silently hailing the event

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Postby satyarthi » 09 May 2008 06:10

May be the Lizard "knows" that Agni-II already covers all of china. So, in a way, Agni-II was the real ice breaker.

If you happen to be at the recieving end, getting hit by a superior Agni-III is only slightly more uncomfortable than getting hit by Agni-II.

Added Later:
I see John Snow has already expressed it eloquently.

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Postby vsunder » 09 May 2008 07:39

Shiv, amen to what you write. You have understood the Chinese wonderfully. No point being manic with a great high and then come crashing down.

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Postby NRao » 09 May 2008 07:42

The lack of Chinese reaction is to be expected. They started this whole mess by first arming Pakistan and slowly ran out of options.

Thanks to China in particular, Pakistan and the US to a much lesser extent, India has a strategic toy to play around with.

The lack of a voice from other quarters is also an indicator of the inevitability of the situation. Including NPAs.

This I think will, or should, tilt the discussion of the 123 in India's favor, IF Indian politicians can capitalize on it.

I strongly feel that the old boys club has been destroyed. A new one needs to be and will be built.

IF only some one can wake up the "leaders" of India.

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Postby vsudhir » 09 May 2008 07:49

IF only some one can wake up the "leaders" of India.


NR, the AIII test and the ATV etc wouldn't be happening but for these same Indian 'leaders'.

Right now, Delhi should be hoping that PRC react with action and not words. Why? Coz whatever action they take can only fuel desi armaments, R&D, alliances and perhaps even a justified Pokhran III ...

Cheen started India off on the N-path, then on the Agni path ('Agnipath') and now on the N-sub path as well. Unspoken competition frm cheen will soon get us to the moon and on hypersonic cruise vacations too, to boot.

Well, a guy can hope, can't he....

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Postby NRao » 09 May 2008 07:56

Well, you may be right.

Just frustrated.

Going to seek JCage and detox.

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Postby gandharva » 09 May 2008 08:36

Brahma Chellaney :

Rather than aim for a technological leap through a crash ICBM (Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile) programme, India remains stuck in the IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile) arena, where its frog-like paces have taken it — nearly two decades after the first Agni test — to Agni-III, a non-strategic missile in deterrence argot.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... tered+away

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Postby Tilak » 09 May 2008 08:36

Arun_S wrote:
p_saggu wrote:Image in the Hindustan Times Article. Arun_S any copyright issues involved here?
Image

yes sir. It is flagrant copyright violation.


Bravo! Arun Saar.. and belated Congrats to DRDO.

PS: I wonder what "people" would do now.. Summon the Kool-Aid Man? :oops:

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Postby thammu » 09 May 2008 08:50

A special system, called ring-laser gyro-based inertial navigation system, was flown on board for higher accuracy of the flight.



Is it the same "ring-laser gyro", whose technology France had refused to share when our earlier defence went for a visit there and requested them?

Have we been able to develop it ourself?

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Postby uddu » 09 May 2008 08:56

gandharva wrote:Brahma Chellaney :

Rather than aim for a technological leap through a crash ICBM (Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile) programme, India remains stuck in the IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile) arena, where its frog-like paces have taken it — nearly two decades after the first Agni test — to Agni-III, a non-strategic missile in deterrence argot.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... tered+away


From now onwards the pace of development will improve. For Agni-IV test is supposed to take place next year. So the true ICBM test will be soon afterwards. So within four-five years time, we will have a true ICBM. The problem lies with the political decision making process.

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Postby uddu » 09 May 2008 10:03

Another democracy threatens the Mideast
{How can India threaten anyone until and unless they intent to cause harm on India}
Link

The 60th anniversary of Israel's founding has understandably focused much of the attention of Middle Eastern analysts on this old and familiar problem. But if they think this remains the prime security issue for the region, they may be looking in the wrong direction.

India this week successfully completed the testing program of its nuclear-capable Agni-3 missile, designed and developed by the state-owned Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO).

The third test launch took place May 7, and flew 3,000 kilometers to its targeted impact site in the Indian Ocean south of the equator from the Dhamra base in the eastern Indian state of Orissa. The full range is 3,500 kilometers, which would bring Shanghai most of southern China into its range.

Welcome to the new security landscape of Asia, with China and India now capable of repeating what in the bad old days of the Cold war used to be called "the balance of terror" between nuclear superpowers.

Since India and China are each dependent on Middle Eastern oil exports which pass through the Indian Ocean, good relations between these two Asian giants is of prime importance to all Middle Eastern countries. And having less than comfortable memories of living under a similar state of nuclear deterrence between two superpowers during the Cold War, the Middle East is going to have to get used to it all over again.

Of course, the relationship between India and China is far more open and friendly than that between the United States and the old Soviet Union. And there are further nuclear complications in the region involving Israel and Pakistan and the possible nuclear ambitions of Iran.

India has already brought into operational deployment the 700-kilometer-range Agni-1 missile, which is presumably targeted on Pakistan, and the 2,000-kilometer-range Agni-2 missile, which can reach Iran and much of the Gulf. Even before its expected "stretch" to a 5,000 kilometer range, the new Agni-3 missile is capable of hitting targets across the entire Middle East, as well as deep inside China.

Like the nuclear weapon the Agni-3 is intended to carry, the missile is a product of home-grown Indian technology. By contrast, Pakistan's shorter-range missiles depend on Chinese and North Korean technology. Indeed, the Indians are frustrated at the lack of any progress on the vaunted American promise of technological cooperation on space and rocketry. And the U.S. still bans any country from using an Indian launch vehicle to launch a satellite that contains even a single U.S.-made component.

Despite American foot-dragging, India is a nuclear power with the missile capabilities to exert wide regional influence. It also deploys the most formidable navy in the region, which will be even more capable once the fleet of new French-built Scorpene submarines take to sea. The Middle East is going to have to learn to live with another democratic superpower flexing muscles in its back yard.

{If someone feels threatened, due to their wrong actions, its time to correct it. They must extend the hand of friendship and be friendly to India}

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Postby Raja Bose » 09 May 2008 10:08

Arun_S,

Just out of curiosity...is the ROCKSIM available on B-R website in any way related to the ROCKSIM software commercially sold by Apogee Components in massa-land (they are a hobby/model rockets company)?

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Postby disha » 09 May 2008 10:18

shiv wrote:Please list the errors and post in the "Nailing media errors" thread Thx


I did not find that thread. Anybody can point me to it ...

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Postby disha » 09 May 2008 10:22

Raja Bose wrote:Arun_S,

Just out of curiosity...is the ROCKSIM available on B-R website in any way related to the ROCKSIM software commercially sold by Apogee Components in massa-land (they are a hobby/model rockets company)?


Raja they are two different software but some how got the same name [from being a rocket simulator, I guess]. ROCKSIM (BR) is not commercial and last it was seen linked in the BR Space section. Rocksim (Apogee) is only for modelling and one can calculate the Cp etc for the fins and has library of the motor size s etc.

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Postby Arun_S » 09 May 2008 11:10

Disha is correct. One is for children other is for men.

It can still be downloaded from BR Space section: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/rocksim/ I need to revamp the space section when I get time.

OTOH I no longer have any association with that software. I have assigned all rights and code to Mechanical Engineering Department, of MMMEC, Madan Mohan Malaviya Engineering College, Gorakhpur located in rural UP that owns and maintains it, an uses it to for teaching/research purposes (just like it is used for teaching in Greece and Germany). It draws inspiration from IAF Jaguars armed with nukes located just a mile away. Can be seen on Google Earth.

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Postby MN Kumar » 09 May 2008 11:31

From Uddu's link above:

Like the nuclear weapon the Agni-3 is intended to carry, the missile is a product of home-grown Indian technology. By contrast, Pakistan's shorter-range missiles depend on Chinese and North Korean technology. :eek:


The fellow ummah brethren wont believe the most Pure and the so called izlamic mijjiles are indeed izlamic. What a blow to H&D...

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Postby Neela » 09 May 2008 12:13

shiv wrote:
raja_m wrote:Hmm... Given the current euphoria over the test, the missile's primary target seems to be extremely quiet. Any comments from the lizard?. Last time they came out with some statement about promoting peace and stability!!! :roll:


If they react asking for peace. t is an indicator that they are either concerned or a merely reaching out

If they react with a ROTFL disdain - it is a provocation to make India angry.

If the do not react, you will not know how they feel. They will react at a time and place of their choosing. Then we on the forum will cry for several years and do more poojas of China god.

The point I am getting at is that we must do what we must do and not be concerned about "log kya kahenge". Looking for a Chinese reaction after one successful mijjile test is a typical example of looking for "Chini log kya kahenge?" which is a mistake. It means that we are looking for their response. Any clever entity will realise that and will tailor the response to cause us maximum takleef at a time when we least want to hear that.

Do what you need to do and balls to what the Chinese or anyone say..



What I have noticed wiht the media reports on missile launches is that there is a frequent mention of 'China' in them. That is a indicator of a deeply embedded grudge and somehow this seems to act as a mild vent to it. As a regional power, messages like ' the missile can reach all of Asia' would send a more powerful image. JMT

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Postby Naidu » 09 May 2008 12:22

disha wrote:
shiv wrote:Please list the errors and post in the "Nailing media errors" thread Thx


I did not find that thread. Anybody can point me to it ...


http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?t=3694


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