Small Arms Thread

nsa_tanay
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nsa_tanay » 15 Dec 2008 10:59

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot
Do we have advantage weapons like 'corner shot' ? It can give us an edge over the enemy, in urban combat. Had we used this weapon in Mumbai Operation, the results would have been different. We could have ended the operation much faster and save more lives. Could have caught some of the terroists alive.

Even Pakistan has developed a similer weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POF_Eye

VijayV
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby VijayV » 31 Dec 2008 12:07

I was searching in web about Safety locks in Rifles and Pistols. Like at what position it locks / un-lock, how they work etc.. But when ever I search in web I get gun safty law etc. only.

can anyone suggest any site or link please...

Div
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Div » 31 Dec 2008 12:59

I am sure this has been posted before, but its an interesting concept that warrants seeing it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

I love the "...lead delivery on target..." reference.

Div
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Div » 31 Dec 2008 13:04

nsa_tanay wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot
Do we have advantage weapons like 'corner shot' ? It can give us an edge over the enemy, in urban combat. Had we used this weapon in Mumbai Operation, the results would have been different. We could have ended the operation much faster and save more lives. Could have caught some of the terroists alive.

It was discussed in some of the threads soon after the attacks. In my opinion its a niche weapon, that could have helped kill the terrorists sooner but not necessarily take them alive.

The pitched battles over the last couple of days at all the locations do not seem to have been condusive to taking prisoners.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby RayC » 31 Dec 2008 13:10

nsa_tanay wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot
Do we have advantage weapons like 'corner shot' ? It can give us an edge over the enemy, in urban combat. Had we used this weapon in Mumbai Operation, the results would have been different. We could have ended the operation much faster and save more lives. Could have caught some of the terroists alive.

Even Pakistan has developed a similer weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POF_Eye


Useful weapon and should be inducted for the SAG.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Rahul M » 31 Dec 2008 13:19

the israelis are actually developing some practical stuff for CQB/HR.

best thing about cornershot is that you can actually pick and choose which weapon you want to fit on it, even an AK series.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Raj Malhotra » 31 Dec 2008 13:35

nsa_tanay wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Kolkata_/Cops_wield_Indian_version_of_AK-47_rejected_by_army/articleshow/3833971.cms


Cops wield Indian version of AK-47 rejected by army
14 Dec 2008, 0339 hrs IST, Jayanta Gupta, TNN



KOLKATA: The next time you feel secure standing next to a policeman toting a so-called AK-47 assault rifle, look closer. The weapon he is wielding
may not be the time-tested sleek weapon originally designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov, but merely a poor imitation, manufactured in India and rejected outright by the army and paramilitary forces.

In 2003-'04, with the AK-47 turning out to be a favourite among terrorists, security forces began looking for a weapon that would be equally potent and easy to handle. While the home ministry placed orders for AK-47s from Bulgaria, the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) came up with its own design for a rifle called the A-7.

Some rifles were manufactured and sent to the army for user trials. They resembled AK-47s to a certain extent but were chunkier' and comparatively unwieldy. The army rejected the rifles outright.

"The OFB was saddled with a large number of rifles. These were of 7.62 mm calibre like the AK-47, but were nowhere as potent. As the home ministry started receiving requests from state governments for better weapons, the already manufactured A-7 rifles were issued to the state police," said a source.

Senior army officers have little faith in the weapon. They believe it is of little use, particularly when issued to personnel without proper training. The 5.56-mm Insas, manufactured at Rifle Factory, Ishapore, and tested during the Kargil War, is a far better option. "The AK-47 is not a very accurate weapon. Its advantage lies in the rate of fire and its convenient shape. The Indian version does not match the original. Those who do not have regular practise will find it much difficult to handle during an emergency," a senior officer said. A few original AK-47 rifles were issued only to the special units protecting VVIPs, such as chief ministers.


It seems like a moron is writing an idiotic article for DDM newsmedia on subject which he cannot understand. A-7 firing a 7.62x39 round is a shorter distance rifle compared to INSAS firing 5.56x45 round. A-7 is ok for police work has unlike conventional infantry they don't need long range. Army has armed its RR with similar weapons.

On side note

INSAS has run its course with a million or more rifles produced. Its time for new design. An equivalent of SCAR light/heavy would be good as SCAR is evolvement of FNC ( which is the same design concept as INSAS)>

Meanwhile Army as usual wants to kill even the potential efforts of DRDO by calling for tenders for import of carbines which are basically versions of assault rifles.

OFB is pimping TAVOR as ZITTRARA

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ticky » 31 Dec 2008 14:45

Rahul M wrote:best thing about cornershot is that you can actually pick and choose which weapon you want to fit on it, even an AK series.


Yup, Discovery featured it on their Future Weapon sometime back. Saw it firing Grenade through a Grenade Launcher

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sid » 31 Dec 2008 16:35

ticky wrote:
Rahul M wrote:best thing about cornershot is that you can actually pick and choose which weapon you want to fit on it, even an AK series.


Yup, Discovery featured it on their Future Weapon sometime back. Saw it firing Grenade through a Grenade Launcher


Cornershot's biggest problem is recoil when in folded position, which reduces the accuracy. Although you can fit in any weapon but its recoil will just flip the weapon out of operators hand. also it will be extremely heavy in front (if you use SMG instead of Pistol). AK47 is almost not possible (i.e. weapon recoil, length and weight).

now if you switch to 9mm handgun in cornershot, recoil reduces and accuracy increases tenfold but it reduces it to one-shot-peek-a-boo weapon. Enemy will lob a grenade out of the window or door if you fail in you first attempt or will take strong positions.

In my opinion its better for recce then actual action.

One grand daddy of corner shot is KA-174 (http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models/ka174.html). This weapon addressed the recoil issue while firing an automatic weapon with curved barrel, but was not that much practical.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 31 Dec 2008 18:06

Cornershot's biggest problem is recoil when in folded position, which reduces the accuracy. Although you can fit in any weapon but its recoil will just flip the weapon out of operators hand. also it will be extremely heavy in front (if you use SMG instead of Pistol). AK47 is almost not possible (i.e. weapon recoil, length and weight).


Another solution to the "CornerShot".. would be to rig a Camera to the Assault Rifle (Zeroed) and then pipe the Image to a Small Screen or Hud. The operate can then take the shot without exposing himself.. The Problem of recoil does become mute..but this would be a pricer/F-INSAS solution.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Raj Malhotra » 31 Dec 2008 19:40

rkhanna wrote:
Cornershot's biggest problem is recoil when in folded position, which reduces the accuracy. Although you can fit in any weapon but its recoil will just flip the weapon out of operators hand. also it will be extremely heavy in front (if you use SMG instead of Pistol). AK47 is almost not possible (i.e. weapon recoil, length and weight).


Another solution to the "CornerShot".. would be to rig a Camera to the Assault Rifle (Zeroed) and then pipe the Image to a Small Screen or Hud. The operate can then take the shot without exposing himself.. The Problem of recoil does become mute..but this would be a pricer/F-INSAS solution.


This solution is around and another very simple solution is to mount an angled mirror on the rifle. operator can hold it out and see the target in the mirror, though his hands would be vulnerable

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 31 Dec 2008 21:29

VijayV wrote:I was searching in web about Safety locks in Rifles and Pistols. Like at what position it locks / un-lock, how they work etc.. But when ever I search in web I get gun safty law etc. only.

can anyone suggest any site or link please...

Each one is different actually. In the case of assault rifles, there is a generally a lever called a selector switch. This selector switch can be set to different positions (Safe, single shot, semi auto, full auto etc.)

Pic of AK-74u
On AK family, it is the long almost horizontal lever that you see above the trigger. When set to the full upper position as in the above picture, it is in the safe position. In fact, in this position, the bolt cannot move to the rear fully since the safety lever physically blocks it from doing so. When you set it to the mid position (the tip of the lever should touch what looks like an O in the picture), that is set to full-auto. When it touches what looks like a B, that sets it to semi auto.

Picture of INSAS
On the INSAS above, you can see the selector safety in the top picture. It is the small disc with the horizontal white line that is just diagonally above the trigger in the top picture.

Some rifles have additional safety mechanisms that will prevent the hammer from physically hitting the cartridge (such as a cross bolt that impedes the striker).

On pistols, you generally have more than one safety mechanism. For instance:
M1911
The first safety on this weapon is a grip safety. This is the thing that you see protruding out at the top back of the pistol's grip. When you hold the grip, you automatically depress the switch and thus the safety is disabled. When you let go of the grip, the switch pops out and thus the safety is enabled.
Closeup of grip safety

The 1911 also usually has a firing pin block safety, which is internal. This is a physical block that prevents the firing pin from striking the cartridge What happens is that when the trigger is depressed, it moves a lever internally that moves the block out of the path of the firing pin and thus the firing pin can hit the cartridge.

Many weapons also have an additional thumb safety. Thumb Safety

Glocks took a bit more of an innovative approach. As the company had no history of firearms production, they had no preconceptions of what firearms design should be. Thus their first pistol (the Glock 17) came out with several innovations, such as use of plastics, safe action safety etc.
Glock 18
In the Glock above, notice that the trigger is a double one. When you pull the trigger, the first trigger has to go in before you can pull the main trigger. The first trigger is actually the safety. It is not possible to pull the main trigger unless the first one is pulled. The first trigger also deactivates two other internal safety levers, a firing pin block safety and a drop safety. These two additional safeties prevent the glock from firing if it is accidentally dropped. Thus there is no need for you to fumble around with a thumb safety, as you cannot fire a glock accidentally unless your finger is on the trigger.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 02 Jan 2009 00:40

This solution is around and another very simple solution is to mount an angled mirror on the rifle. operator can hold it out and see the target in the mirror, though his hands would be vulnerable


But the problem with the above is that the fire will be random and not accurate. With the corner shot or Cam Gun the Device is zeroed with the Gun so you can actually be very accurate with your fire. Helps in specially hostage situations or if you are trying to hit the bad guys with out them knowing you are there.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sid » 02 Jan 2009 09:23

rkhanna wrote:
This solution is around and another very simple solution is to mount an angled mirror on the rifle. operator can hold it out and see the target in the mirror, though his hands would be vulnerable


But the problem with the above is that the fire will be random and not accurate. With the corner shot or Cam Gun the Device is zeroed with the Gun so you can actually be very accurate with your fire. Helps in specially hostage situations or if you are trying to hit the bad guys with out them knowing you are there.


CornerShot can only provide situational awareness with limited firepower, that's why only one or two operator per team carry this weapon. If someone has seen CornerShot's demonstration video's, you will see operators will flip the weapon to do a quick recce of area and flip it back before storming the rooms to provide accurate fire.

In Indian environment, a suicidal Baki carrying AK-47 can easily overwhelm a 9mm armed CornerShot. AK-47 can even punch holes in a thin wall.

Best role for it is, have one guy armed with this weapon for recce. After positions are confirmed, let team enter so that there are no surprises.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Jan 2009 10:07

Sid wrote:
ticky wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
One grand daddy of corner shot is KA-174 (http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models/ka174.html). This weapon addressed the recoil issue while firing an automatic weapon with curved barrel, but was not that much practical.


I believe the real grand daddy of corner shot is German WWII 'Krummlauf' attached to Sturmgewehr.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby VijayV » 02 Jan 2009 10:29

Thanks ArmenT. It was great.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Raj Malhotra » 02 Jan 2009 16:15

Corner shot is nice equipment looking for practical use. If somebody uses a corner shot with Jehadi then he will lob a grenade even before you get him in focus.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jan 2009 08:28


rkhanna
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 21 Jan 2009 15:01

This solution is around and another very simple solution is to mount an angled mirror on the rifle. operator can hold it out and see the target in the mirror, though his hands would be vulnerable


Well yea that would be the QuickFixe EME Solution and would work..but i am thinking one step further.. Zeroing your rifle to a Mirror is not really possible. However with a Camera not only you but your entire platoon/Section gets to see the same picture and knows the layout/position of the enemies. Obviously this is far more expensive and more of a F-INSAS technology.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Neilz » 25 Jan 2009 18:12

I dont know if you guys have gone through this..... its has some really nice pic of INSAS/MSMC/Vidhansak etc all in one go.

Scroll n enjy :D :D :D

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... hp?t=71295

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 27 Jan 2009 18:30

Image

Image

These pics are from one of the new IndiaToday articles on BPJ that the Indian Army is Aquiring. The Total Jacket+Armour Plates weights about 10Kgs.. This Vest is manufactured by the OFB

The Plates are made out of HARD ARMOURD STEEL. This Plate is manufactured by Tata Materials. Its a level III BPJ.


This was a Comment somebody made on another forum regarding the Above.

The Indians are really behind the curve when it comes to small arms protection development. Ballistic steel plates are 80's tech. Standard hard plates these days are made from silicon/boron carbides and NIJ level 3 protection can be had weighing less than 2kg per plate.


IMO if you do the research this gent is right. Also what about Side Protection? The Indian Army Jawan/Infantry need some serious overhauling.

Here is what is available elsewhere.

Ceramic (Standard 10" by 12" 0.5" thick) Inserts for Level III/IV Protection. Weight around 2.7 Kgs. Front and Back total weight is less than 6 KGs and its less bulkier (Thickness)

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml

We still dont make concelled Kevlar Vests in india that cops should be using. And i am not even breaching the age old story of HeadGear Protection. Most of IA basic kit (including Water Bottles) needs a serious upgrade to bring down weight.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby atreya » 27 Jan 2009 20:27

Neilz wrote:I dont know if you guys have gone through this..... its has some really nice pic of INSAS/MSMC/Vidhansak etc all in one go.

Scroll n enjy :D :D :D

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... hp?t=71295



Guys, i have gone through the Wikipedia page on Vidhwanasak.....but why doesn't BR have a page on it? What is the current status of this anti-material rifle...wiki says only BSF has inducted it...why hasn't it been inducted in the IA? And any reports/pics of it being used in combat?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 27 Jan 2009 23:15

i have gone through the Wikipedia page on Vidhwanasak.....but why doesn't BR have a page on it? What is the current status of this anti-material rifle...wiki says only BSF has inducted it...why hasn't it been inducted in the IA? And any reports/pics of it being used in combat?


This is what i have been told by a Certain Gent in the Army. THe Vidhwanasak is really Heavy and bulky (You need 2 men to transport it). Due to that the army is not very keen on the rifle except in built up defensive positions (fixed). Most of the Border Built Up Sangars are manned by BSF Troops and hence they have been deployed there. The Army will eventually get it in smaller numbers.

For now Army SF is buying a Hungarian .50Cal Rifle that is far more compact than the Vidhwanasak.

The Hungarian Lynx Rifle

Image

Image

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sid » 28 Jan 2009 00:47

^^^
Vidhwanasak is built for special purpose and special role. i.e. anti armor. Such high power weapon should only to be used by specialized sniper units. It ammunition is also bulky hence only 20 (or maybe 30) can be carried by both troops at a time.

I also doubt weapon is carried is assembled condition, most probably with barrel detached so weight is shared by team.

But the way IA operates, it will just issue the weapon to regiments and will be operated by any troop who can handle it. I can barely see IA operating special schools for snipers who can fully exploit this weapon.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby KiranM » 28 Jan 2009 17:04

rkhanna wrote:This is what i have been told by a Certain Gent in the Army. THe Vidhwanasak is really Heavy and bulky (You need 2 men to transport it). Due to that the army is not very keen on the rifle except in built up defensive positions (fixed). Most of the Border Built Up Sangars are manned by BSF Troops and hence they have been deployed there. The Army will eventually get it in smaller numbers.

For now Army SF is buying a Hungarian .50Cal Rifle that is far more compact than the Vidhwanasak.


Vidhwansak is similar in weight and dimensions to NTW-20 from Denel. In fact former is said to be reverse engineered from the latter (from the trial models for IA order, before Denel was blacklisted on bribery charges).

On the issue of weight, if IA was keen on the Denel rifles but not on Vidhwansak, then something does not meet the eye.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 28 Jan 2009 19:53

Vidhwansak is similar in weight and dimensions to NTW-20 from Denel. In fact former is said to be reverse engineered from the latter (from the trial models for IA order, before Denel was blacklisted on bribery charges).

On the issue of weight, if IA was keen on the Denel rifles but not on Vidhwansak, then something does not meet the eye.




The IA would have had the same issue with the NTW-20 as well. When the NTW-20 "test batch" and the Vidhwansak were actually handed out to IA and RR units in Kashmir they didnt take to it one bit due to its weight. The OFB revers eengineered the NTW-20 kinda on its own .Hopefully in time the OFB will eventually reduce the weight of the rifle in follow-up versions.


PS.. all this was told to me by an IA officer attached to the Testing Unit at OFB Jabalpur.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ajay_ijn » 28 Jan 2009 20:43

rkhanna wrote:
i have gone through the Wikipedia page on Vidhwanasak.....but why doesn't BR have a page on it? What is the current status of this anti-material rifle...wiki says only BSF has inducted it...why hasn't it been inducted in the IA? And any reports/pics of it being used in combat?


This is what i have been told by a Certain Gent in the Army. THe Vidhwanasak is really Heavy and bulky (You need 2 men to transport it). Due to that the army is not very keen on the rifle except in built up defensive positions (fixed). Most of the Border Built Up Sangars are manned by BSF Troops and hence they have been deployed there. The Army will eventually get it in smaller numbers.

For now Army SF is buying a Hungarian .50Cal Rifle that is far more compact than the Vidhwanasak.

The Hungarian Lynx Rifle

Image

Image

will these hungarian rifles be as good as Vid/NTW-20 in terms of firepower and accuracy at long ranges? or is IA making some sacrifice to get lighter weapons.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sum » 28 Jan 2009 21:47

Arent anti-materiel rifles(like the blacklisted Denel one or the Vidhwansak) anyway supposed to be heavy? :-?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sunilUpa » 28 Jan 2009 22:44

The Hungarian Lynx and Vidhwanshak are not really comparable, meant for different scebarios. Lynx is designed to be man portable, even it's barrel is telescopic, when in carrying mode, the length is almost same as that of AK-47!. It is meant to be used as a precision sniper gun, capable of halting light armoured vehicles and take out people b/h concrete walls etc. In fact Lynx is being marketed a weapon of choice to halt jehadi car bombs!

Most of the 50 cal sniper guns weigh b/w 12-14 kg, Barret, AS50 etc.

Vidwanshak OTOH is like a bunker burster, not really man transportable. To be used as a sniper un it should be easily transportable by one man, which Vidwansak is clearly not designed for.
Last edited by sunilUpa on 28 Jan 2009 22:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Neilz » 28 Jan 2009 22:46

ajay_ijn wrote:will these hungarian rifles be as good as Vid/NTW-20 in terms of firepower and accuracy at long ranges? or is IA making some sacrifice to get lighter weapons.


Vidhwansak(12.7 mm variant)
Weight 25 kg
Length1.7 m
Barrel length 1.1 m
Crew 2
Action Manual Bolt Action
Muzzle velocity 845 m/s
Effective range 1800 m
Maximum range 2000 m
Feed system Magazine
Sights 8X42 Power Telescopic sight with Parallax adjustment

=================================
Denel NTW-20
Weight 26 kg
Length 1,795 mm
Barrel length 1,000 mm
Crew 2
Action manual bolt action
Muzzle velocity 720 m/s
Effective range 1,500 m
Maximum range 2000 m
Feed system 3-round detachable box magazine
Sights Telescopic sight
=================================
M82/107
Weight 13.6kg
Length 1,450 mm
Barrel length 508 mm
Crew 1
Action Recoil operated, rotating bolt
Muzzle velocity 853 m/s
Effective range 1,850 m
Maximum range 6,800 m??????
Feed system 10-round detachable box magazine
Sights Fixed front, adjustable rear sight MIL-STD-1913 rail provided for optics

Specs clearly indicates that VID is infact improvement over Denel. I do not think without IA interest it would have been done. Points are clear IA shifted goal post ... want unkils M107 type easy portable. But logically Lynx /M107 better for the task.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 29 Jan 2009 01:10

will these hungarian rifles be as good as Vid/NTW-20 in terms of firepower and accuracy at long ranges? or is IA making some sacrifice to get lighter weapons.


Keep in mind that the Lynx also has small dimensions as it is a Bullpup Design.

From Janes

For carriage or transit purposes the barrel is held to the rear under tension, reducing the overall length from 1,126 mm to 928 mm (for comparison; AK-74 with an overall length of 943 mm and M16A2 with an overall length of 1,000 mm), the rifle can however, be brought into immediate use by pressing the barrel release lever. A folding-bipod is fitted to the forward end of the receiver and lies alongside the right side of the gun when not in use. A length of Mil Std M1913 Picatinny rail is fitted to the top of the receiver for fitting of user selected optical or other sighting systems; the manufacturer offers the Schmidt & Bender PM2 optical sight as standard. A large single-baffle muzzle-brake is fitted to reduce the considerable amount of recoil generated by firing this class of cartridge.Penetration at 100 m in concrete of the 12.7 x 108 mm round is claimed


Video of the Rifle in Action

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-DkDxUy7F0Ig/gepard_m6_promo_video/

Recoil is not all that bad for a 50 Cal. From what i have read elsewhere on the net (Gun Forums) the Lynx is earning quiet a name for itself as compared to the Barretta.


As for the NTW-20/Copy the Army seems to be interested in aquiring it for Defensive Fixed positions like bunkers and Sangars along the border areas. so far they have ordered nothing but a few test batches where as BSF has already inducted them. But then again the BSF mans most of the border posts in peace time anyways.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Div » 29 Jan 2009 08:08

Interesting discussion on long range sniper weapons...reminds me of this story from a few years ago:
Serious Body Counts

Canuck snipers supposedly had the highest number of confirmed kills in the Shah-i-Kot Valley fight. A source in Kandahar working with the Canadian sniper teams estimates "well over 20 confirmed kills at long ranges." There is an unconfirmed, but widely circulated, report of a 2,400-meter kill (chest-shot) against the driver of an enemy resupply truck. If validated, it will be a new record for the longest shot made by a military sniper in combat (currently 2,500 yards or about 2,250 meters, held by GySgt Carlos Hathcock, USMC, near Duc Pho, South Vietnam, January 1967, with a Browning .50 HMG mounting an 8-power Unertl telescopic sight).

Two detachments of Canadian snipers entered the battle alongside U.S. units. One group of three went in with a company from the 101st Airborne's 3rd Brigade "Rakkasans." When the American grunts became pinned down, the three Canadians and three accompanying U.S. Army Special Forces shooters armed with M24 Remingtons went to work. Moving to a vantage point, they began picking-off al-Qaeda fighters engaging the 101st infantrymen. For more than an hour they fought it out with heavily dug-in al-Qaeda fighters. According to Master Corporal (MCPL) "Alex," a 30-year old infantryman from Ottawa and Halifax, "As soon as we got rid of one guy, another would come up, and another one."

With the pressure off them, the company of 101st infantrymen quickly moved into their assigned blocking positions. The Canuck snipers were in their element. They continued their long-range shooting with their McMillan Brothers .50-cal. Tactical Anti-Materiel Sniper Rifle System. This is the new bolt-action, Long-Range Sniper Weapon (LRSW) that was only introduced to Canadian Infantry Battalions in April 2000. The LRSW is modified for Canadian Army use with a moveable cheek piece and shortened bipods, and is fitted with a 16x Leupold optical sight. It has a five-round magazine, weighs 12 kg./26.4 lbs., and is 145cm/58 in. in length. The Canadians push AMAX Match .50-caliber ammunition through it.

The spotter (secondary) or team commander, uses a C3A1 7.62mm Sniper Rifle — a Parker-Hale M82 modified to Canadian specs with a six-round detachable magazine, extended bolt handle, strengthened receiver, new trigger safety and a new match-type barrel. The C3A1 is fitted with a Unertl 10x optic (same as USMC-issue), and its usual fodder is Norma Match 7.62mm ammunition loaded with the Sierra Match King 168-gr. HPBT(M) bullet. The LRSW is fitted with Gen III and the C3 Gen II Simrad image-intensification devices for low-light work. For back up they both have the Canadian-made Diemaco C-8 5.56mm Carbine (analogous to the U.S. M4) and 9mm Inglis GP (M1935) Hi-Power pistol using standard service ammo. The teams also have 20-power compact spotting scopes, a Leica Vector binocular with built-in rangefinder, compass and inclinometer functions and a GPS uplink, in addition to normal field gear, camouflage, and ghillie suits: The Canadians put it all to use.

The LRSW, however, is the primary weapon for the sniper team. When employing the LRSW, the usual two-man team of sniper and spotter will normally be increased to three and will then be designated as a sniper team. The team will consist of the No. 1, (primary sniper) employing the LRSW, the No. 2, (team commander) employing the C3A1, and the No. 3, (team security) employing the Canadian-made Diemaco C7 5.56mm M16A2 type rifle. With the weapon systems complementing each other, this allows for a maximum of flexibility of tasks within the team.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/B ... sSpeak.asp

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn74-e.htm

rkhanna
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 29 Jan 2009 20:56

"well over 20 confirmed kills at long ranges." There is an unconfirmed, but widely circulated, report of a 2,400-meter kill (chest-shot) against the driver of an enemy resupply truck.


The only reason the shot is Unconfirmed is because it was taken from 2.4kms away. Hell of a walk to confirm a kill. Second the Kill was deep inside Taliban territory. The Canadian Forces however maintain the Guy died as what was viewed from the scope.

Another thing most people will agree the distance (2.4kms) was possible because of the High Altitude and hence is one of the reason why it is so contested in the record books.


and as far as .50Cals go the ArticWarfare weapon is definetly one of the best around.

considering the Terrain we operate in it is definetly worth a look.

Image

ramana
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2009 22:14

Late in WWI the Germans developed a long range heavy caliber anti-tank rifle. The Brits copied the idea and develped the Boyes anti-tank rifle. It gave way to the Bazooka and PIAT in the anti-tank role. Looks like in mountain warfare sniper rifles have a specific role to suppress fire from commanding locations.

namit k
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby namit k » 04 Feb 2009 02:06

what happened to FN FAL derivative that was used by Indian army, it was a potent weapon too....
cant see it anywhere used by indian army anymore,,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L1A1#Production_and_use

vivek_ahuja
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Feb 2009 11:24

Isn't that in INSAS in the circled images? And if so, what on earth is it doing in the hands of a Nepal based maoist?!! :-o

Image

-Vivek

Sid
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sid » 04 Feb 2009 11:58

^^
maybe collected from Nepali army after skirmishes. They also seem to have Indian version of SLR and all. And given their connections with maoist in India, weapons collected by them can end up with Nepali maoist too.

abhik
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby abhik » 04 Feb 2009 12:07

^^^
Simple explanation actually,
India supplied the Nepalis army with the INSAS, and like any other guerrilla force(including our own naxalites) they use mostly "captured" arms .

Rahul M
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Rahul M » 04 Feb 2009 12:09

sourced from nepali army during skirmishes and defections.
almost all of maoist modern arms in India are stolen/robbed from security forces.

ArmenT
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 04 Feb 2009 14:17

namit k wrote:what happened to FN FAL derivative that was used by Indian army, it was a potent weapon too....
cant see it anywhere used by indian army anymore,,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L1A1#Production_and_use

It got replaced by the INSAS


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