Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

arnab
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby arnab » 04 Jun 2010 09:50

Matthew_H wrote:
I also want to make you aware of a public education project I am developing that focuses on India’s space warfare pursuits. It is called the India Space Weaponization Project: http://bit.ly/IndiaProject

I hope that you find my articles interesting, and that they raise awareness of India’s rapidly evolving dual-use technologies and military space systems. I would like to emphasize that the deployment of these military space systems will only serve to undermine India's security. I also believe the United States is supplying India with dual-use technology to fuel the US defense industry, but more importantly the US is setting India up to be a proxy rival to China.

With best wishes to all.

Matthew Hoey


Well some of the conclusions of the 'project' are:

We must ask ourselves: What has India done in the 35 years since its first nuclear test to earn the trust of the international community once again? Even more so, what has it done to earn the trust of the international community since sanctions were placed upon it again in 1998 for even more nuclear tests?


In an India rife with poverty and an archaic caste system, where only 1 percent of Indians work in high technology, the question must be asked: How do investments in military technology improve the common person’s life? At the current pace, long before poverty is relieved, a dangerous arms race between China and India will begin. India is ultimately investing in a process that will contribute to the undermining its region’s and its people’s security, while ignoring the fundamental needs of its citizens.


Thanks for your concern :) We are not aware that we were desperate to gain the 'trust' of the 'international community'. Yes, though we are giving the US the chance to redeem herself in our eyes. Yes we have poverty, malnutrition etc, but our investments in military technology thus far has actually accelerated the decline in poverty levels in our country. So I think the solution is to increase military spending to get rid of poverty all together.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vavinash » 04 Jun 2010 10:09

--

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby a_kumar » 04 Jun 2010 10:38

For reasons unknown to me, powers be seems to be in a mood to indulge.. so.. here are my 2 cents
Matthew_H wrote:It is my objective to call attention to India's space weaponization pursuits before they reach the battlefield.

Matthey_H wrote:I also want to make you aware of a public education project I am developing that focuses on India’s space warfare pursuits.

Mattew_H wrote:The mission of the India Space Weaponization Project is to analyze the myriad projects and policies fueling India’s efforts to weaponize space.

Matthew_H wrote:I hope that you find my articles interesting, and that they raise awareness of India’s rapidly evolving dual-use technologies and military space systems.

What did India do to deserve the stalking!! Wonder who bankrolls all the time!

Interesting all right!! For a moment, I wondered how it would have felt like in 1960's. Different times, different technology, but same contempt!
Matthew_H wrote:I would like to emphasize that the deployment of these military space systems will only serve to undermine India's security.

I am sure its all for love of the Indies!!

Please.. feel free to shower it all on China and US!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Neela » 04 Jun 2010 10:58

8 entities of the Indian Space Research Organisation still under sanctions.
And a good decade has passed since 1998.

You know, I thought in 1998 that in a decade things and attitudes would change. Hoping newer and younger folk would accept reality and move on. Looks like some institutions and people seem to have frozen in the past and the thaw is yet to begin.

It is my assumption that GoI is testing the waters with C-130 and petty orders. If this thing rears it head again, GoI is going to be annoyed.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Jun 2010 11:04

as if on cue, ISIS has launched another whine that satellite imagery shows India building at new uranium gas centrifuge hall at Ratehalli RMP Mysore.

So? suck a lemon birader.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Gagan » 04 Jun 2010 12:21

That picture has been uploaded on google earth. One can see the expansion going on.
All of a sudden now that the Gadha party has come to power in massaland, the knives are out again, and the usual rona-dhona has begun in rightful earnest.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby mody » 04 Jun 2010 13:03

Does anyone have any info on specs for Akash MK-2 missile. Recently it was stated that along with Arjun tank, DRDO will also be developing a MK2 version of the Akash SAM.

I think this should be taked up on top priority and actaully should have been taken up when the current Akash was undergoing its final user trials.

we will never master any technology by going in for Joint venture projects with Russia or isreal or France. In fact I fail to understand what exactly is our contribution going to be in the MRSAM project with Isreal or in the new Maitri project with France. Both the countries already have the expretise to build these kinds of missles and besides an assured Indian market and the money to run these projects, I think we provide precious little in the joint venture. More importantly we do not gain any technological expretise to be able to design and build these kinds of systems on our own in the future.

The focus for DRDO should be to develop a MK2 version of Akash SAM. For the first step the following features should be added:

1). A fully canisterized missile, allowing VLS launch modes.
2). Increase the range to 45 to 50 Kms. This will allow us replace SHTil type of missiles in our ships. Atleast we can have the indigeous Akash-2 upto Frigate level ships. The Barak-8/Barak-NG/MRSAM can come in for Destroyer class vessels and above. Can stack 48 to 60 of these missiles in P-17/17A kind of vessels and that would give them a real punch and make the ship even more indigenous.
3). Increase the speed of the missles from the current Mach 2-2.5 range.
4). Devlop a new radar that has 360 degree coverage capability and range close to 150 Kms from the present 64 Kms for Rajendra radar. The radar should also be capable to engage a minimum 8 targets at a time.

The above features are assuming a maximum 3-5 year timeline maturity. Beyond that time it would be futile and the forces would not be inclined to go for this system.

Apart from the above improvements the holy grail would obviously be to have our own Seeker and not have akash as a radar guided missile.

Maximum emphasis should be given to developing our our seeker technology, so that missles like Akash and Astra can fly with indigeous seekers.

Just my thoughts.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby JimmyJ » 04 Jun 2010 13:27

Nice to see that there are still idealist in the world who believes that they can wind India's Nuclear and Sace program into a box. As long as they are funded it i nice to remain an idealist, but once the funding stops reality will pinch and wake them from their dreams. Till then, sweet dreams!!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pralay » 04 Jun 2010 14:11

Hello Chaiwallas and Panwallas :)
Is there any news on HELINA missile? the air launched Nag?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby RoyG » 04 Jun 2010 18:21

http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewhoey

Senior Research Associate at The Institute for Defense and Disarmament Studies

Matthew,

Thanks for sharing your views. I hope that you remain on BR and take the time to understand our positions on the issues of nonproliferation of missile and nuclear technology and the militarization of space.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 04 Jun 2010 19:13

rohitvats wrote:Can some noble soul summarize the varied SAM types being inducted/RFP sent and those under development?
There seems to be too much going on for this mango-abdul to keep track off.
Many thanx in advance.


Rohit
Neither Abdul nor Mango nor Mango Abdul have any business to be on this forum !!!!!

Yes you r right in saying that too much is going on. But What Is The Net Result ?

As I see IAF has ordered some 2 + X sqdns of Akash.

IAF has ordered xyz sqdns of SPYDER

Maitri is in danger (or dead)

AAD / PAD tests are continuing

There is a Barak abc under development for IAF - Long range

There is a Barak mnp under development for IN - Medium range

There is a Barak, in service for IN

And there is Barack Obama "under development" for USArmy, USAF, USN AND USMC, RAF, RN etc

Let us hope that a REAL noble soul accumulates all the SAM info and puts it on the BRF for soem other noble souls like you and me and all the mango abdul

Kersi

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 04 Jun 2010 20:23

Matthew_H wrote: I would like to emphasize that the deployment of these military space systems will only serve to undermine India's security.



Utter tripe.

The article is full of innuendo. It is long on rhetoric but fails to explain the conclusion you have reached above.

Who the fck is going to undermine Indian security if India decides to go ahead with all these technologies and succeeds? You have an opinion - fine. i think you are wrong.

A person who warns that someone is detabilizing a purported "stable" situation, or warns that someone's attempts to improve military strength will actually do the opposite and "undermine his own security" is a person who does not want those things to happen for his own unstated reasons and is trying to push snake oil like "good wishes" and "I am doing this for your own good". We don't need this kind of pretence buddy. You are pretending to talk as if Indian security interests you so much that you are "concerned" and are taking all this trouble for India's benefit. Like hell you are. Cut the crap and get to the point. What the hell is the point of this pathetic article?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Surya » 04 Jun 2010 20:57

I would like to emphasize that the deployment of these military space systems will only serve to undermine India's security



any other gems??


Admins

why this indulgence

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby RoyG » 04 Jun 2010 21:09

shiv wrote:
Matthew_H wrote: I would like to emphasize that the deployment of these military space systems will only serve to undermine India's security.



Utter tripe.

The article is full of innuendo. It is long on rhetoric but fails to explain the conclusion you have reached above.

Who the fck is going to undermine Indian security if India decides to go ahead with all these technologies and succeeds? You have an opinion - fine. i think you are wrong.

A person who warns that someone is detabilizing a purported "stable" situation, or warns that someone's attempts to improve military strength will actually do the opposite and "undermine his own security" is a person who does not want those things to happen for his own unstated reasons and is trying to push snake oil like "good wishes" and "I am doing this for your own good". We don't need this kind of pretence buddy. You are pretending to talk as if Indian security interests you so much that you are "concerned" and are taking all this trouble for India's benefit. Like hell you are. Cut the crap and get to the point. What the hell is the point of this pathetic article?


I don't agree with him either. However, he probably hasn't been exposed to our positions on the matter. What do you expect from researchers at NP groups...? I think this is a great opportunity to get our point across and have meaningful debate. Who knows, we might just win him over. That is if he sticks around lol.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 04 Jun 2010 21:47

RoyG wrote:...
I don't agree with him either. However, he probably hasn't been exposed to our positions on the matter. What do you expect from researchers at NP groups...?
...

You're being far too generous, and unduly so. If he is familiar enough with this forum to come and subject multiple threads to his article then, being a researcher / journalist / bullshit artist, he could have done his due diligence by reading the opinions here first.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 04 Jun 2010 22:18

okay people, enough of this, let's get back to scheduled programing. if there's a response we can think about continuing.

mody ji, from what we know, Akash Mk2 is definitely longer ranged, probably with an additional booster stage. a seeker might be there but I'm not sure if they have decided yet. there's no proposal to canisterise it that I'm aware of. the future of our SAMs lies in the ashwin and barak-8 family.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby RoyG » 04 Jun 2010 22:28

PratikDas wrote:
RoyG wrote:...
I don't agree with him either. However, he probably hasn't been exposed to our positions on the matter. What do you expect from researchers at NP groups...?
...

You're being far too generous, and unduly so. If he is familiar enough with this forum to come and subject multiple threads to his article then, being a researcher / journalist / bullshit artist, he could have done his due diligence by reading the opinions here first.


You're right. Subjecting multiple threads to his article is wrong. But hey...all we can do at this point is wait for his response. Admins will deal with him if he doesn't get his act together.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chiru » 04 Jun 2010 22:42

Rahul M wrote: the future of our SAMs lies in the ashwin and barak-8 family.


rahul saar this ashwin is new to me ...time to google it out :oops:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 04 Jun 2010 22:44

actually I meant the AAD, ashwin is the proposed SSM variant of it. so it's my turn to :oops:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 04 Jun 2010 23:30

Rahul M wrote:actually I meant the AAD, ashwin is the proposed SSM variant of it. so it's my turn to :oops:


A bit confused saar wiki tells me SSM is an alternate for Anti Ship Missile and Ashwin is the ship based ABM....right ????

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 04 Jun 2010 23:32

"actually I meant the AAD..."

Any news of the next launch of the AAD? The last one in Feb 'failed'( not really) when the target missile did not reach the required altitude.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 05 Jun 2010 00:37

Sagar G wrote:
Rahul M wrote:actually I meant the AAD, ashwin is the proposed SSM variant of it. so it's my turn to :oops:


A bit confused saar wiki tells me SSM is an alternate for Anti Ship Missile and Ashwin is the ship based ABM....right ????

sorry ? AAD/ashwin has nothing to do with any anti-ship missile.

AAD- 1st level ABM system, can also be used as a SAM
ashwin - proposed SSM(surface to surface) variant
ship based ABM - we know nothing on this at this point of time.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 05 Jun 2010 01:51

Rahul M wrote:AAD- 1st level ABM system, can also be used as a SAM
ashwin - proposed SSM(surface to surface) variant
ship based ABM - we know nothing on this at this point of time.


Oh yes definitely saar now I remember, I had completely forgotten about the Ashwin missile and then jumbled it up with ship based ABM.

Inability to spend time on BR is showing it's effect :lol:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jun 2010 06:21

ship based abm is a us fad to counter regimes like noko and iran to protect its local munna's and have something to do with is giant navy.

we have no such problems and all our threats can be dealt with by land based ABM.

for ships we need to focus on anti-air and anti-ASM which we are doing.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby JimmyJ » 05 Jun 2010 20:58

Singha wrote:ship based abm is a us fad to counter regimes like noko and iran to protect its local munna's and have something to do with is giant navy.

we have no such problems and all our threats can be dealt with by land based ABM.

for ships we need to focus on anti-air and anti-ASM which we are doing.



Do we have to include any SLBM scenario to it, considering the fact that the Chinese are definitely a capability?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 05 Jun 2010 21:23

JimmyJ wrote:
Singha wrote:ship based abm is a us fad to counter regimes like noko and iran to protect its local munna's and have something to do with is giant navy.

we have no such problems and all our threats can be dealt with by land based ABM.

for ships we need to focus on anti-air and anti-ASM which we are doing.



Do we have to include any SLBM scenario to it, considering the fact that the Chinese are definitely a capability?

why would you need ship based ABM systems just because the adversary has SLBM ?
conversely, why would land based ABM not able to deal with whatever BM comes its way, irrespective of source ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 05 Jun 2010 22:55

Rahul M wrote:why would you need ship based ABM systems just because the adversary has SLBM ?
conversely, why would land based ABM not able to deal with whatever BM comes its way, irrespective of source ?


Wouldn't a ship based ABM decrease the reaction time of our ABM ??? The most important part of ABM network is the radar, the radars in the second phase of our ABM programme would have a track distance of 1500KM. China will definitely fire it's BM's from behind the watchable eyes of our radars so my point is wouldn't a ship based ABM increase our chances of detection (more so in the case of SLBM) and hence quicker reaction by our ABM network. Maybe we should not put the entire thing on ship and only the radars ???

On second thought when we get up our space based detection satellites up and running how much feasible would all these land based sensors remain ???

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 05 Jun 2010 23:17

Rahul M wrote:...
why would you need ship based ABM systems just because the adversary has SLBM ?
conversely, why would land based ABM not able to deal with whatever BM comes its way, irrespective of source ?

I could be mistaken but, as far as I understand, no matter how good one's ABM is, targetting the BM in the boost phase gives a much greater probability of hitting it.

Also, once a BM reaches the apex of its trajectory, one can only hope that what follows is a single re-entry vehicle and not multiple re-entry vehicles. The latter would become exponentially harder to completely neutralise.

Targetting SLBMs from ship-based ABM seems to make sense - perhaps not for our immediate threat perception but for the future.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 06 Jun 2010 00:52

sagar and pratik, please think of where the ABM systems would have to be in order to detect and intercept SLBM launches. would you really want your prize assets to languish in south china sea right under PLAN's nose ?
that is of course assuming we know where the SSBN is in the first place, by itself quite a non-trivial matter. and if we do know it, it's better to tail the sub with SSNs rather than attempt n number of ABM launches.

boost phase interception is all well and good. question is how would we do it ? at what ranges, what would be the reaction time ? is it practical right now ? I don't see how anything other than DEW has a chance to achieve boost phase intercepts.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 06 Jun 2010 01:18

^^^^^
I appreciate the insight! However, I'd think that following the sub isn't nearly as important as detecting a missile that breaks the surface and is heading up. In the event of an all-out war, it would be fair to expect SLBMs coming from the Arabian sea and Bay of Bengal and not just BMs coming from the expected directions of the Pak and PRC mainlands. I'd think that the first line of the defence should be off the coasts of Mumbai, Goa, Ernakulam, Chennai, Visakhapatnam, and Kolkata.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Misraji » 06 Jun 2010 01:29

^^^
Pratik Saar,

The idea is not just to follow the sub but also to kill it if it tries to launch an missile.... :D

BTW, the areas that you are talking about are our backwaters where IN maintains a strong surveillance
and operational capabilities. Its not trivial to just come there and start lobbing missiles.
Also, its said the best weapon against a submarine is a submarine. Hence the need for tailing
SSBNs with SSNs. Something that USN subs used to practice against Soviet SSBNs during cold-war.

Furthemore, if you want to protect the cities, why again would we be looking at ship-based ABM?? Wouldn't
fixed sites serve the purpose. And then its no longer boost phase interception is it?
The ideas that have been expressed above are nothing fancy.
These things might actually be better explained in books rather than online forums.

Coming back to boost-phase BMD, I think the Air-launched Hit-to-kill system is pretty interesting initiative.

Given the case that we have a realistic chance of having control of air over the land
of the pure, it might be feasible to have packs of Su-30s maintaining missile defense orbits over
suspected launch sites.

~Ashish

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 06 Jun 2010 01:39

Misraji wrote:^^^
....
Furthemore, if you want to protect the cities, why again would we be looking at ship-based ABM?? Wouldn't
fixed sites serve the purpose. And then its no longer boost phase interception is it?
The ideas that have been expressed above are nothing fancy.
These things might actually be better explained in books rather than online forums.
....

The point of being off the coast is to be hundreds of kilometers closer to the possible point of launch - somewhere in the Arabian Sea or the Bay of Bengal. Since the area wouldn't be within India's territorial waters, you wouldn't be able to station something there permanently - you'd need to have the ABM on a ship. This would increase your chances of a boost phase intercept.

Of course you can have everything hovering in the air all the time, but I think having it floating on the sea would not only bring your radar closer to the incoming missile, it would also give you the opportunity to take it out - as the first line of defence.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Misraji » 06 Jun 2010 01:54

^^^
Pratik Saar,

You and I are both newbies. Lets take this to the newbie thread.
I have posted the reply there.
Lets leave this thread for the big-guns and gurus.

~Ashish

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 06 Jun 2010 02:09

Misraji wrote:^^^
Pratik Saar,

You and I are both newbies. Lets take this to the newbie thread.
I have posted the reply there.
Lets leave this thread for the big-guns and gurus.

~Ashish

Every point answered in newbie thread only to indulge you. I don't want to get into a personal discussion. The age of my account has no correlation with how long I've been on this forum.

Ship based ABM extends radar coverage from the mainland and extends ABM range from the mainland. Getting the enemy SSBN that launched the missile with SSNs is great. How many SSNs do we have? I'm talking about defence and having SSNs doesn't exclude the need for an offshore defence.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Misraji » 06 Jun 2010 02:55

---edited later---
off-topic

~Ashish.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Nihat » 06 Jun 2010 11:58

shiv wrote:I am only an armchair marshal. But let me still stick my neck out and say how I will plan to use a two aircraft Su 30 formation carrying Brahmos to hit a target that is 1000 km inside hostile territory.

First I will ask if an Su 30-Brahmos mission is really required? Can the target not be hit by an Agni? How vital is the target that requires putting my Su-30 assets at risk?

Next I will look at the risk to my aircraft. What route can I use to fly to a point 700 km inside enemy territory? Can I use terrain masking or other means such as diversionary attacks to divert enemy air defences? Is there an indirect route that mimimizes flight over hostile territory(eg partly over the sea)?

When these things are planned I will then ask, "What if my plans fail? What if my Su 30s get pounced by enemy air defence fighters?" Will the Su 30s allow themselves to be shot down? Do they dump the Brahmos and run? No to both questions. I will have planned out alternate, closer targets along the way. If pounced, my Brahmos carrying Su 30s will launch their missiles at alternate targets along the way while they are protected by their escorts. Then all the aircraft will fly back along a pre-planned return route.

If I had the right software, I would pre-program the Brahmos launch routine in such way that the Brahmos is always aimed at some target or the other. As the Su 30 flies along its 700 km route, the missile's targeting will automatically change to be aimed at the nearest available target within 300 km until the Su 30 reaches the zone where it can hit the originally planned target. So at any time during the flight, if the heavily laden Su 30 is at risk, the Brahmos can be quickly launched at any one of the planned targets within 300 km range of wherever the Su 30 is in its flight. Avro cannot achieve this. Hence Su 30.



X-posting from Su-30 thread but the above post by Shiv here only highlights the operational gap for a Nirbhay to fill , a 700 Km range sub sonic cruise missile with low IR signature and guided navigation will solve so many of our troubles wrt reducing risk of our mainline fighters.

The jets can be used to hit actual targets then rather than being risked in anti-radar and SEAD / DEAD missions. I have great expectations from this project as it is known for sure that it is underway and funding et all is clearly not a problem now.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby JimmyJ » 06 Jun 2010 14:01

Few reason I find ship based ABMs worthful.

1. The String of Pearls as we currently look would turn out to be military spots for the Chinese down the line especially if US influence in the Indian Ocean region decreases 20-30 years down the time. The SLBMs would already be in place threatening our interests. Our interest 20 years down the line may not just be our own homeland but any country that is aligned with our interest. Ship based ABMs would help in repositioning them quickly should a need arise, that too with out too many diplomatic dramas that we see in Europe now. Operational expertise earned now would definitely add to our capabilities at the time frame in context.

2. The second chance option. Not sure if we could say any system is fool proof and fail proof. A crucial misjudgement could lead to vaporising an entire city. So attempt to kill the attacking missile as far as possible with the land based ABM being the last line of defence.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 06 Jun 2010 23:10

Rahul M wrote:sagar and pratik, please think of where the ABM systems would have to be in order to detect and intercept SLBM launches. would you really want your prize assets to languish in south china sea right under PLAN's nose ?


The missiles can be land based and the radars ship based, they can be networked so that our detection range and reaction time increases and decreases respectively.


Rahul M wrote:it's better to tail the sub with SSNs rather than attempt n number of ABM launches.


Increase in detection range with the help of ships, space based satellites will make the above thing unnecessary.



Rahul M wrote:I don't see how anything other than DEW has a chance to achieve boost phase intercepts.


Agree saar DEW's have best shot at boost phase intercept if India is pursuing EMP based DEW's (KALI) then we would be able to claim complete BM defence.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 07 Jun 2010 08:07

Nag hits target in 3 seconds
Excerpts
Anti-tank guided missile Nag on Sunday successfully destroyed the target in three seconds after its launch from a Nag missile carrier (Namica), Nag Project Director S.S. Mishra told TheHindu.

The test-firing proved the missile's capability of engaging a target at a close range of 500 metres.

Proving short range capability was one of the “Qualitative Requirements” (QRs) from the Army.

It is expected to be inducted by the Army after conducting final validation trials in the deserts of Rajasthan next month. Mr. Mishra said as many as seven missiles would be flight-tested during the July trials.

So, this should complete the Nag meeting all the QRs as earlier rounds had proved the other requirements.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby mody » 08 Jun 2010 15:58

India is already planning to acquire X-band radars with 4,600 Kms detection range. So there that solves your early detection problem. The radar that are being proposed would be able to detect a 6-inch width object at ranges upto 4,600 Kms. Offourse this is a proposal as yet. Only the US or Isreal can help us with this kinda stuff.

Apart from this, the early detection will come from satellites.
Ship based ABM, has very low value for us. Basically it only means having missiles on a ship platform. A ship based radar with detection range of 1,000 Kms or more is not practical for us. Hence the detection of the target would have to come from shore based or space based or airborne assets and the then the target data is passed on to the ABM missile site closests to path of the incoming BMs.

In our case, if all the ABM sites are land based it would not really make much difference. Having ABM missile sites on Andaman or Lakhyadweep would actually make a lot more sense.

Also if Barak-8 and new proposed quick reaction SAM from France is the future of our non-strategic air defence missiles, then its really a sorry picture. After spending 2 decaces on the Akash and Trishul project, we simply label them as technology demostrators and dump them.
There has to be a follow on effort to develop the technology demostrated and develop further into usable products. Like the case of the Agni missile, where the first design with a 1,500 Km range and liquid fuel was labelled as a TD. The technology developed and experience gained from that was used to then further develop a whole family of missiles, which are still being developed and improved with every new version.

I would have no problems with the Barak-NG or the new proposed Low level quick reaction SAM, if it gave us all the technology to be able to design and build an even more advanced system on our own in the future. But the sad part is that we will get precious little in terms of technological knowhow from these projects and will be hardly any closer to designing a developing world class SAM systems, then where we are currently.


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