INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby bart » 27 Jul 2009 13:20

Pity the NPA/FAS/ArmsControlWonk type folks or the Phoren intel agencies trying to glean info from the Indian media about the launch. :rotfl:

The DDM are probably our best assets (unintentionally of course) at disinformation and obfuscation of strategic capabilities.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Jul 2009 13:32

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/27/stories ... 301000.htm

The K-15 missiles, which are already under production, can carry both conventional and nuclear warheads. They have a range of 700 km. They are 10.4 metres tall and weigh 6.3 tonnes each.

DRDO officials cautioned that while INS Arihant entering water from the dry-dock in the Ship-Building Centre of the Visakhatpatnam harbour on Sunday was an important step forward, making the boat operational would take time. “The submarine will now go for harbour acceptance trials (HATs). Then it will go for sea acceptance trials (SATs). Later it will go down to a certain depth and come up,” they said.

A nuclear-powered submarine was a highly complex platform and safety regulations had to be adhered to. “There are hundreds of systems on the boat. They have to work one after another. This is called setting-to-work. The HATs and SATs will last about a year-and-a-half. This is the most difficult period of activity and you have to do it perfectly. Then the K-15 missiles will be fitted into the boat.”

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Jul 2009 13:33

We definitely need a larger inventory of subs as China already has about 70+ with two N-sub lines and two conventional sub lines already on stream.In the future,it will have at least around 80+ modern newly built subs.Add to that another dozen or so with Pak,which also has ambitions and the number of enemy subs would be around 100.The naval budget cannot be solely for building a large number of nuclear subs.There will be demands from the surface fleet and amphibious forces.The SSBNs are strictly speaking are part of the strategic forces and some of the SSGNs will be tasked to protect them.They will be unavailable to counter enemy task forces and subs operating in the IOR and beyond threatening our fleet,island territories and maritime trade.One major task for the IN will be protecting our maritime trade and energy-security maritime assets.Therefore for offensive operations, power projection,amphibious capability,etc.,we will also need at least three carrier groups and a large force of marines along with sufficient amphibious vessels (LHPDs).Since Midway,the role of airpower at sea has been crucial to victory in naval battles,the last example being that of the Falklands War,where the Sea Harrier was the most important factor that won the war for Britain.Even in both Gulf wars,the amount of operations/sorties performed by US carrier aircraft to support the land offensive has been stupendous.It is why the RN wants two large new 50,000+t carriers for the coming decades.In addition,the lack of German airpower at sea to support german subs was the key reason why it lost the battle of the Atlantic as it had no answer to the numerous anti-sub LR maritime oatrol aircraft that sunk most of the U-boats.

AIP subs will cost much less than a nuclear sub and we need a large number of smaller AIP subs will be able to conduct simultaneous operations that could stretch from the Gulf,the Paki coastline,the Indian coastline and our island territories, right through the SLOCs to Far East waters.A significant part of the inventory will be subs in refit,repair and maintenance and unavailable.Remember that in '71,the IN fought a two-front war in the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea with Pak.A future crisis could add to that the Gulf,Southern Indian Ocean and S.China Sea,as the Chinese increase their presence in Burma,Pak with their ambitious "string of pearls" strategy.
Last edited by Philip on 27 Jul 2009 13:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 13:36

INS ARIHANT -AN ANALYSIS BY SHANKAROSKY

- it is a modified akula 2 class submarine with some of the advanced features from Borei class thrown in most likely the active sound cancellation technology
-the reactor is made in India no doubt but has significant Russian design input and in all likely hood based on if not a copy of ok 650 type reactor that poweres the akula 2
- 60% of the content is imported obviuosly from Russia and that includes steel used in making the submarine and weapon systems and some reactor components
- made /fabricated essentially by L/T under Russian consultancy and direct supervision
- surface displacement 6500-tons plus submerged displacement 8200-8500 tons no doubt about it
- length 112 meters so the dia should be around 11 meter plus but I think it is 13 meter plus for anumner of reasons .1) the ok 650 reactor on which the arihants power plant is based cannot nbe fitted into 11 meter hull 2) surely russia will not give consultancy on a new unproven reactor to indian navys first submarine and indians will pay a billion dollar for it .It has to be an OK 650 nothing else maybe some what more compact bu reduction of fuel bundle size and higher pressure higher capacity coolant pumps but nothing inherently significant.
- power output of reactor 180 MW Thermal- any thing less will make the large submarine a sitting dick in an open water conflict and will negate the SSN attack role
-it is a double hulled construction
- It will take on AGNI 3SL type missiles from day one you dont use a billion dollar submarine to launch deepavali type land attack missiles
- it incorporates advanced stealthy features from B class not just noise cancellation technology
- it sure has reasonably good air defense capability
- it should be able to fire 635 mm torpedoes if required maybe from external pods
- the harbor trial will be very short -most of the system have been tried on anyway before launch . The reactor from all reports have run for years. Once the press have been shooed off the Arihant will quietly sail into bay of bengal and start sea trials in less than a month if not in week
- The follow on INS CHITRA and her sister will come into Vizag for reactor fitment in a matter of weeks and both will be worked on simultaneously with feedback from Arihant factored in
- The first week will go in stabilizing the reactor core operation,checking for leaks and control surface operation and then quickly it will go for submerged trial in progressive greater depth till max operating depth of 500 meters and then finally to never exceed depth of 600 meters of so
-it has more comfortable living quarters for the crew a lesson from Typhoon class allowing longer cruise duration
- atleast two sets of crew have been already trained in operation of the reactor and the sub in Russia -Sevmash and the third group onwards will be trained in India on Nerpa
- During trail stages of Arihant it will be protected by Nerpa when in far out oceans .It incorporates too many russian secrets of underwater technology and that is one reason they will like it to be well protected always .
- ocean trial will also be not very long as predicted by press - the design is proven one from Russia -only standard operational checks and hull quality assurance need to be confirmed before Arihant is operational with navy along with Nerpa 2 .They will always operate together

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby vera_k » 27 Jul 2009 13:42

Shankar wrote:- length 112 meters so the dia should be around 11 meter plus but I think it is 13 meter plus for anumner of reasons


There was one report that indicated a length of 124m. Could that be true?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 13:42

he largest of the two shipyards of the Russian State Center for Atomic Shipbuilding (GRTsAS) in Severodvinsk, the Northern Machine-Building Enterprise (more commonly referred to as Sevmash) is also known as the Production Association (PO) Sever or PO Sevmashpredpriyatiye.[1] Sevmash was formerly known as Severodvinsk Plant 402.[2] Sevmash began building nuclear-powered submarines in 1952. By 1995, Sevmash had constructed 125 submarines and had produced all the Northern Fleet's SSBNs.[3, 4] In addition, Sevmash participates in the dismantlement of Alfa-class and Sierra-class titanium-hulled submarines.[5, 9]

Sevmash built the Tambov (Oscar II-class) submarine in 1996, and the Russian government still has not paid Sevmash for the work. Since December 1993, Sevmash has been constructing the prototype of the new Severodvinsk-class submarine. A lack of funding has prevented completion. The keel of the Yuriy Dolgorukiy, the first submarine of the fifth generation Borey-class, was laid down at Sevmash on 2 November 1996. Funding problems are also stalling this project.[6, 7] Sevmash officials hope to complete construction of the Akula-class submarine Gepard and will allow the submarine's crew on board to become familiar with the vessel in spring 1998 .[8]
http://www.nti.org/db/nisprofs/russia/n ... evmash.htm

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Jul 2009 13:50

Even if the above facts are true,and that proven N-sub tech is aboard (no doubt about that!),the Nerpa's trials are taking a year or so,minimum standard time for a new N-sub on its trials.I'm not sure about an A-3 ICBM being fitted straight on,as the need also exists for a large number of shorter range K-15 missiles to deal with Pak.If the stated range has been mentioned as "700km",one can safely assume it has at least 1000km range capability with a small N-warhead.4 missile silos with 12 missiles for the first SSBN of this size is a healthy number.However,S'kovsky is spot on when he says that an A-3 ICBM will be carried as soon as it is ready to deal with the PRC.We might have the sub carrying at one time both the K-15 and A-3.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 27 Jul 2009 13:57

Austin wrote:The point is jurnos were there, granted they were barred from cameras/cell etc , but how many of these jurnos understand submarine and more importantly nuclear submarine ,so even if these guy/gals saw the real stuff which they did , they should be intelligent enough to ask the right question to Naval staff around , analyse and present it.

Ok I am not questioning these jurnos knowledge , they may very well know quite a lot , but looking at past reporting they dont inspire confidence.

Hence I expect the intelligent jurnos from India Today or Hindu to report on the real stuff.


There are very few journos who can be said to be knowledgble about defence. It is likely that IN may not have called them as they are knowledgble.

And most of the knowledgble journos will not print what they saw, they will only print the hand outs of the IN


K

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Jul 2009 14:11

Shankar wrote:INS ARIHANT -AN ANALYSIS BY SHANKAROSKY

- it is a modified akula 2 class submarine with some of the advanced features from Borei class thrown in most likely the active sound cancellation technology
-the reactor is made in India no doubt but has significant Russian design input and in all likely hood based on if not a copy of ok 650 type reactor that poweres the akula 2
- 60% of the content is imported obviuosly from Russia and that includes steel used in making the submarine and weapon systems and some reactor components
- made /fabricated essentially by L/T under Russian consultancy and direct supervision
- surface displacement 6500-tons plus submerged displacement 8200-8500 tons no doubt about it
- length 112 meters so the dia should be around 11 meter plus but I think it is 13 meter plus for anumner of reasons .1) the ok 650 reactor on which the arihants power plant is based cannot nbe fitted into 11 meter hull 2) surely russia will not give consultancy on a new unproven reactor to indian navys first submarine and indians will pay a billion dollar for it .It has to be an OK 650 nothing else maybe some what more compact bu reduction of fuel bundle size and higher pressure higher capacity coolant pumps but nothing inherently significant.
- power output of reactor 180 MW Thermal- any thing less will make the large submarine a sitting dick in an open water conflict and will negate the SSN attack role
-it is a double hulled construction
- It will take on AGNI 3SL type missiles from day one you dont use a billion dollar submarine to launch deepavali type land attack missiles
- it incorporates advanced stealthy features from B class not just noise cancellation technology
- it sure has reasonably good air defense capability
- it should be able to fire 635 mm torpedoes if required maybe from external pods
- the harbor trial will be very short -most of the system have been tried on anyway before launch . The reactor from all reports have run for years. Once the press have been shooed off the Arihant will quietly sail into bay of bengal and start sea trials in less than a month if not in week
- The follow on INS CHITRA and her sister will come into Vizag for reactor fitment in a matter of weeks and both will be worked on simultaneously with feedback from Arihant factored in
- The first week will go in stabilizing the reactor core operation,checking for leaks and control surface operation and then quickly it will go for submerged trial in progressive greater depth till max operating depth of 500 meters and then finally to never exceed depth of 600 meters of so
-it has more comfortable living quarters for the crew a lesson from Typhoon class allowing longer cruise duration
- atleast two sets of crew have been already trained in operation of the reactor and the sub in Russia -Sevmash and the third group onwards will be trained in India on Nerpa
- During trail stages of Arihant it will be protected by Nerpa when in far out oceans .It incorporates too many russian secrets of underwater technology and that is one reason they will like it to be well protected always .
- ocean trial will also be not very long as predicted by press - the design is proven one from Russia -only standard operational checks and hull quality assurance need to be confirmed before Arihant is operational with navy along with Nerpa 2 .They will always operate together


I agree with everything above, except that Reactor may still be smaller than 180mw and Russians may not have given their more advanced one. Also I thought (rightly or wrongly) that sonars stop working after 20kt speed and more speed is essential for super-powers for the sub to transit long distances all over the globe. In combat situations travelling at more than 20kt means sub will be blind and will be making too much noise. A 9000 tons sub can go at 20kt speed even with 85mw reator. Also note that in an Article Adm Prakash said that we should try to develop 200MW reactor, he will only say this if such reactor was not available.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 14:16

Even if the above facts are true,and that proven N-sub tech is aboard (no doubt about that!),the Nerpa's trials are taking a year or so,minimum standard time for a new N-sub on its trials.I'm not sure about an A-3 ICBM being fitted straight on,as the need also exists for a large number of shorter range K-15 missiles to deal with Pak.If the stated range has been mentioned as "700km",one can safely assume it has at least 1000km range capability with a small N-warhead.4 missile silos with 12 missiles for the first SSBN of this size is a healthy number.However,S'kovsky is spot on when he says that an A-3 ICBM will be carried as soon as it is ready to deal with the PRC.We might have the sub carrying at one time both the K-15 and A-3.


- Agree we need short range missiles for pakistan but we need a submerged platform for that that is required only for China .Arihant is out and out China specific for the moment.Pakistan do not have the capability to take out our land bases missiles in one go and they will never even dare this is my feeling and most Indian strategic planners maybe also feeling the same. For Pakistan best deteranceis Su-30 with tactical level nukes and that is already operational I guess
China is a different beast altogether they will not mind even sacrificing their cities in the fringe to teach us a lesson Only deterance against them is a sure hit on Beijing when the political leadership is vulnerable and for that we need agni 3 slbm on Arihant.
Russians and American know this too well and hence surprising low key if any reaction to our Arihant program -think back the rukus they did during cryogenic engine technology transfer deal which had to be aborgated

the money we arepaying to Russians in form of escalatory price on Vikramaditya surely includes the technology consultancy on Arihant and the materail supplied that is why repeated escalation as our requirements kept on getting larger
you dont expect to get B class design features for free

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 27 Jul 2009 14:24

Isn't 30 years too steep a learning curve (leave aside L&T's participation to fabricate the hull when we have giant PSUs).


France has been building aircraft carriers since ages. Their latest AC Charles de Gaulle lost a propeller during the sea trials !!!!

K

L&T's fabrication facilities are FAR SUPERIOR to what any PSU can offer today

K
(ex L&T)

An ATV project was started by L&T in late 1980s. It was also called as PTC Towers. This was supposed to be a "land based N submarine", a mock up of a submarine for study. The PTC rings were about 8 m in diameter and ~ 80 mm thick

I think I can give this information now!!
K

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Jul 2009 14:25

80mm sounds right. around 3 inches.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 27 Jul 2009 14:31

Andrew DeCristofaro wrote:t

how long both russkies and americans took to operationalize their first nuke submarines?


I read that from design to complete trouble free operation, US took 16 years fro the M 16 rifle. I think a N Sub is slightly more complex than a M 16 or any other rifle

K

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 14:45

it is not a fare comparison -we now have advanced computational tools like CFD/ANYSYS which makes analysis and predictions fareasier and accurate than available those days .

Today we can simulate the nuclear explossion on computer those days not even the trajectory of bullet could be done without trial

Not that I like americans much but have to be fair

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Jul 2009 14:47

I was just looking at pics of various modern subs and realised that pure tear drop shape is not a norm. British Astute and even to some degree HDW & Collins have e gently hump on the upper spine. So the Arihant design seems pretty modern and hump may not have been given to adjust the missiles/vls

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 27 Jul 2009 14:52

WAHT DO YOU CALL INS ARIHANT ?

SSBM ? SSGN ? SSN ?

I think INS ARIHANT is perhaps the first submarine in the world to be a combination of SSBN AND SSGN.

It has ballistic missile launchers but range only 700 km. I cannot call INS ARIHANT as a "true" SSBN with 3,000+++ km missile launchers

It can launch CM, e.g. Klub so it is definitely a SSGN

Looks like we all have to create a new designation. SSGBN or SSBGN !!

K

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby nrshah » 27 Jul 2009 14:55

WAHT DO YOU CALL INS ARIHANT ?


Looks like we all have to create a new designation. SSGBN or SSBGN !!

K


Also considering it will carry torpedoes as well, How about SSMN - Submarine - Multirole - Nuclear?

-Nitin

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby nrshah » 27 Jul 2009 15:02

nrshah wrote:http://www.timesnow.tv/Nuclear-submarine-INS-Arihant-launched/articleshow/msid-4323142,curpg-2.cms

With US, Russia and China already fielding 5,000-km range SLBMs, the DRDO too has recently tested an SLBM based on the design of 3,500-km range Agni-III.

I had once read on wiki that India has secretly tested the A3SL version but did not gave due thought considering stuff was from wiki. But now times also saying the same...

-Nitin


Looks like the above was missed in the flood gates that got opened yesterday. Gurus, can you please lighten us?

-Nitin
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby VikB » 27 Jul 2009 15:04

From Shiv Aroor's Headlines Today article
"...previously known as Advanced Technology Vehicle or simply S 2..."

Didnt know ATV was also called S 2. Was this common understanding on the forum also?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 15:11

WAHT DO YOU CALL INS ARIHANT ?

SSBM ? SSGN ? SSN


a rose is a rose and you can call it by any name - only in this case this rose has a nuclear overtone

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby pushkar.bhat » 27 Jul 2009 15:19

I said this yesterday and I will say this again INS Arihant is a Graney class Project 885 replica with 12 instead of 24 missiles. That means a lot of additional free space. I don't know why but the space is there.

In the next few days I will be putting up a comparative table of Nuclear Subs in the class similar to Arihant and substantiate on my conculsions.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby arun » 27 Jul 2009 15:21

The reaction of the Pakistani Navy:

India’s nuclear submarine to trigger arms race: Pak Navy

Monday, 27 Jul, 2009 | 02:52 PM PST |

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy's spokesman Captain Asif Majeed Butt termed India's nuclear-powered submarine a destabilising step which would jeopardise the security paradigm of the entire Indian Ocean region, DawnNews reported. ……………………….......

Captain Majeed said the induction of the new submarine could trigger a nuclear arms race and all littoral states, including Pakistan, will take safeguarding steps.

Dawn

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby rakall » 27 Jul 2009 15:25

arun wrote:The reaction of the Pakistani Navy:

India’s nuclear submarine to trigger arms race: Pak Navy

Monday, 27 Jul, 2009 | 02:52 PM PST |

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy's spokesman Captain Asif Majeed Butt termed India's nuclear-powered submarine a destabilising step which would jeopardise the security paradigm of the entire Indian Ocean region, DawnNews reported. ……………………….......

Captain Majeed said the induction of the new submarine could trigger a nuclear arms race and all littoral states, including Pakistan, will take safeguarding steps.

Dawn




Yawn.. Yawn... Yawn..

time for the begging bowl to be put to shine - beg the chinis for a nuke sub ??

More innovative would be ask Unkil for a Nuke sub to aid the the war on terror !! Pakis now need a nuke sub to fight the taleban in NWFP..

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby VikB » 27 Jul 2009 15:41

Just saw this link posted by someone called vijaytripoli of the INS Chakra on a paki forum.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 704288.jpg
Apologies if posted already. moderators may edit accordingly.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 27 Jul 2009 15:45

NPOL Scientists are proud
Indigenous Pressuried Water Reactor (PWR)
L&T plays a vital role

And there are other news.....coming to the bragging part; how much design was pure desi and how much was it phoren designed?

Added: to be fitted with K-15 missiles
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 27 Jul 2009 15:47

Kersi D wrote:WAHT DO YOU CALL INS ARIHANT ?

SSBM ? SSGN ? SSN ?

I think INS ARIHANT is perhaps the first submarine in the world to be a combination of SSBN AND SSGN.

K

This is completely and patently an Indian approach. Our satellites used to be communication + search&rescue + weather monitoring.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby aditp » 27 Jul 2009 15:49

Yawn.. Yawn... Yawn..

time for the begging bowl to be put to shine - beg the chinis for a nuke sub ??

More innovative would be ask Unkil for a Nuke sub to aid the the war on terror !! Pakis now need a nuke sub to fight the taleban in NWFP..


The Chinks are reportedly refurbishing a 30 yr old Golf platform which though not nuke propelled, still carry ballistic missiles, and there doesnt seem any credible reason for doing so unless a lease to Puke navy is planned --> which in any case is good.

Excellent live weapon target practice for the INS Arihant. :wink:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby arunsrinivasan » 27 Jul 2009 15:59

INS Arihant Sketch by LiveFist

Gurulog, does this help get a better idea on the capabilities of INS Arihant?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 27 Jul 2009 16:06

ahhh

Looks like a Kilo :((

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby bart » 27 Jul 2009 16:08

SwamyG wrote:NPOL Scientists are proud
Indigenous Pressuried Water Reactor (PWR)
L&T plays a vital role

And there are other news.....coming to the bragging part; how much design was pure desi and how much was it phoren designed?

Added: to be fitted with K-15 missiles


Not really such a big deal. The main thing is that the package works and contains substantial indigenous design and manufacturing with the whole thing designed to our specifications and taking shape within our country, along with the right amount of foreign help and components as needed. Pretty much a model project. Add to that the stated intention to increase the indigenous content in the immediately following subs.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 16:16

very similar to if not identical to sukhoi project similar mode of implementation -shankarosky

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby vardhank » 27 Jul 2009 16:27

re astute's shape... it's very unusual, no? definitely nothing like a teardrop.
also, why is it said to be so advanced?
and in any case,
The launching of Astute was 43 months behind schedule, and the Astute class were £900 million over budget

we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves then, if things still take a while... hope shankar's right, though, with his projected timeline

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby rakall » 27 Jul 2009 16:31

The next big ponderable is what will be "K-X"?

- the SLBM variant of A3 with a (official) range of 3500km or that of A5 with (offcial) range of 5000km -- is likely to be for the next line of SSBN's with the 8000cr price tag (Even A3-SL from BR missile is 12.2m.. A5-SL likely higher)
- probably the A3-SL or A5-SL will first be tested as a single warhead config (with long conical nosecone) and then only with MIRV config (with rounded nosecone) - the MIRV version of SLBM is atleast 5years away from first test.

considering that...

- K-X will most likely be a beefed up version Shourya?
With a larger diameter & a single Mk6 warhead for the 3 Arihant-class vessels... Until the >5000km Agni-3/5 SLBM with MIRV comes on board for the 2nd line of SSBN's!!!

or what are the chances that K-X will be Agni based? May be the name itself is an indication that K-X is likely to differ from Agni designs?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 27 Jul 2009 16:34

The Sail looks conventional with perhaps an all moving hydroplane , the slight hump behind the sail is smoothly rising from the sail , much like Borei hence the talk of similarity.

The hydroplane if not fixed ( can move 180 * ) can be moved 90* which aids in rising through thin ice cover

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 27 Jul 2009 16:46

Shankar wrote:
WAHT DO YOU CALL INS ARIHANT ?

SSBM ? SSGN ? SSN


a rose is a rose and you can call it by any name - only in this case this rose has a nuclear overtone


This is a rose with a sweet fragnance

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby krishnan » 27 Jul 2009 16:51

Shankar wrote:- power output of reactor 180 MW Thermal- any thing less will make the large submarine a sitting dick in an open water conflict and will negate the SSN attack role


Nice analysis shankar ji, but a small typo

:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 16:58

well well well - adds a bit of fun to the serious business of strategic deterrence - but i think the navy guys will not blush hearing such language

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 27 Jul 2009 17:03

probably the A3-SL or A5-SL will first be tested as a single warhead config (with long conical nosecone) and then only with MIRV config (with rounded nosecone) - the MIRV version of SLBM is atleast 5years away from first test.


would agree with you partly - A3SL may not be that far off - even if it is true - we need to target one city only with that giving us a complete deterrence against any country in a first strike survivable platform for the time being so that we don't become another Iraq

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Jul 2009 17:15

comment on Shiv aroor's blog:

4:12 PM
Anonymous said...

Mr Aroor, if you have made this drawing yourself, then i must congratulate you. It is very true to the real design. It was a pleasure to meet all of you yesterday. Hope the govt can allow you to come again for the Arihant HAT phase to observe the same. Best of luck.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Postby caesar » 27 Jul 2009 17:21

SUBMARINES can be detected by sonar, or sound ranging, and so not only has the Arihant’s propulsion system given a double shield, its outer hull is covered by thick rubber tiles studded with conical gaps that trap sound.After the first trial of the steam cycle and turbines, the Arihant will be hooked up to the nuclear reactor. The reactor’s fuel rods are currently locked and sealed.They will be unlocked and neutrons will be introduced to start up the 85 MW pressurised water reactor. The reactor will work continuously for anything up to 10 years till the fuel runs out.Then it will be brought back to the dock, the reactor compartment will be cut open, new fuel rods inserted and resealed.Arihant’s construction got underway in 1998 with Larsen & Toubro machining 13 sections of the hull at its plant in Hazira to a design provided by the Malakit design bureau of Russia. These were then taken in a barge to Vizag and outfitted with their respective equipment — missile launchers, combat information systems, torpedo tubes, ballast tanks, living spaces, sonars, steam generator and turbine and so on. Then they were welded into three distinct sections. The first contained the sonar equipment, torpedo tubes and control systems. The second section comprised of the combat information systems and an array of electronic equipment, accommodation as well as the ballistic missile launchers. The third section, distinct and specially shielded, comprised of the reactor and the steam turbine and gearings.Considering that India began its first project for the sub in the late 1970s, you could well ask why it has taken so much time.The short answer is that we are not as advanced as we think we are when it comes to engineering, metallurgy, and nuclear science.The first glimmer of this was visible when in the early 1980s the first project ran aground after spending some $ 4 million ( Rs 20 crore). The second project under the auspices of the DRDO worked on different assumptions, but even it has had a rocky ride.The plan was for India to acquire the drawings of the Russian Charlie II submarine and fabricate it, and at the same time design its own 100 MW reactor. A new Advanced Technology Vessel programme was created. At the same time, in 1988, a Charlie II, renamed Chakra, was leased from the Soviet Union. The idea was to run it till we had made our own.

UNFORTUNATELY, the Soviet Union collapsed and there was no extension of the lease. By then we had created a number of facilities which included a special pier with a 60- tonne crane, radiation safety services, swimming dock, slipway and workshop, but the project remained in the doldrums.This was the time, in the mid- 1990s, when the ATV organisation realised how much of a long haul it would be. Components and assemblies for nuclear- propelled submarines had to have a very high quality requirement, something the country lacked.For obvious reasons, precision welding is one of the most important aspects of submarine construction.More troubling was the fact that the reactor made by the Indira Gandhi Atomic Research Centre, Kalpakkam could not make grade. Once again the Russians helped, quietly.They provided equipment for two VM- 5 pressurised water reactors, one of which was assembled and tested at Kalpakkam’s Prototype Testing Centre in 2004. The Russians have also been helping with the design of the Sagarika, the ballistic missile that will be the main weapon of the Arihant.The big challenge for the engineers was to use the Charlie II design and modify it by adding one more compartment, the one that carried the ballistic missile tubes which increased its length by 10 m or so. But they managed this and earlier this year the reactor and propulsion unit was finally welded to the other two units. Many Indian companies have been involved. The uranium, enriched at around 20 per cent, has been provided by the Indian uranium enrichment facility at Ratnehalli, near Mysore.India has another nuclear- propelled submarine en route in 2010, an Akula- class Russian attack submarine which differs from the Arihant which is a ballistic missile sub. Such subs are used to hunt down enemy submarines and ships. Curiously, no one seems to know who wants the Akula. The Navy brass insists it is not them. But the country is expected to spend $ 700 million ( Rs 350 crore) to lease it for a period of 10 years. But then this is what keeps the country’s defence purchases booming.

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/200 ... n-sub.html


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