INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9876
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Apr 2012 15:33

Lisa wrote:If one has any time, class DDM act on the BBC world service. Sanjoy Majumder reporting from Vishakhapatnam says, when asked what the submarine looks like, "it has a cone like thing on its fin, this device apparently powers the submarine"!


Yes Guruji a "cone like thing" :rotfl: powers his brain

VibhavS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 64
Joined: 04 Jan 2011 16:56
Location: Classified

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby VibhavS » 04 Apr 2012 15:47

Lisa wrote:If one has any time, class DDM act on the BBC world service. Sanjoy Majumder reporting from Vishakhapatnam says, when asked what the submarine looks like, "it has a cone like thing on its fin, this device apparently powers the submarine"!

Link please :mrgreen: this I would love to read.

many thanks

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10099
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 04 Apr 2012 15:53

Just couldnt resist this hilarious comment on the Akula article in HT:

hope it is not left hand drive like tatra trucks!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Lisa
BRFite
Posts: 1189
Joined: 04 May 2008 11:25

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Lisa » 04 Apr 2012 17:32

VibhavS wrote:
Lisa wrote:If one has any time, class DDM act on the BBC world service. Sanjoy Majumder reporting from Vishakhapatnam says, when asked what the submarine looks like, "it has a cone like thing on its fin, this device apparently powers the submarine"!

Link please :mrgreen: this I would love to read.

many thanks


Sorry, no link, it on the radio interview from Vishakhapatnam. You may still
be able to hear the repeat. He also says no nuclear weapons allowed on
board, submarine must have hatches linked to Gamma Ray detectors yes?. :rotfl:

Kersi D
BRFite
Posts: 1383
Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Kersi D » 04 Apr 2012 19:57

D Roy wrote:The most awesome thing about those pictures is the fact that the INS Jalashva is in the background.

Who would have ever thought that you would see a Shchuka-B SSN and an Austin class LPD under the same banner in the same picture?


Yonlee in Yindia. Yonlee in Yindia. He he.


Yand you will see ASU 30 MKI escorting a Rafale or vice versa !

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13760
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Suraj » 07 Apr 2012 14:18

I've never seen this picture of the Arihant before. I've seen one that looks like it, but it was either blurred or a negative. This one on the other hand, is much more telling:
Image
Now that we have pics and videos of crewmen on the Chakra, the Arihant SSBN looks substantially larger at first glance - the hull has a greater diameter and the conning tower is significantly taller. It also doesn't have the forward aspect angle that the Borei SSBNs do.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17051
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Rahul M » 07 Apr 2012 14:41

the biggest difference is of course the position of the diving planes. unlike soviet subs, it's on the conning tower like the ohio. the chinese boomers have a similar layout.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 17:05

Why do the the exteriors glaze? In past too the surface has been shown shining. During the launch, I thought it was some lightning work. Other subs seem to have a matte finish.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 07 Apr 2012 19:30

yankee class submarine had diving planes on sail.
so does the delta class in service.

our Arihant has external look of a shortened Yankee class with less tubes.

glaze is perhaps due to kind of rubber used in anechoic tiles...must be very fine grain...or have a mildly reflective coating

the conning tower is indeed 50% taller than Akula and so is the hull diameter. so why does it onlee have 4 tubes? to beat the akula in size it would have to be nearly 10,ooot.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10099
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 07 Apr 2012 21:12

^^ Would guess that the folks chatting in the foreground of the Arihant pic are MARCOS, going by their army style camo ( like seen during 26/11)?

Unless it is not army camo but some other uniform?

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 08 Apr 2012 06:45

The ATV is meant to hide and travel with as little noise generation as possible.Unlike the Chakra,she does not need high speed as a priority,stealth and quietness being the highest.From the shape of her sail,resembling CW Soviet boomers,her top speed should be about 10 kts below that of the Akua/Chakra.While the Chakra's top speed is officially given as 30kts.,it is well known that both Russian and US subs have far higher burst speeds than advertised.

It would be interesting to see what size the improved ATVs are going to be and whether they will have one larger or two (ATV sized) reactors.

Christopher Sidor
BRFite
Posts: 1435
Joined: 13 Jul 2010 11:02

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Christopher Sidor » 08 Apr 2012 08:45

^^^
+1 Agree with you. Arihant is all about quietness over speed. And more quieter a boomer, more its utility. Off course we are assuming that its SLBMs are equally potent.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 08 Apr 2012 10:23

who is the guy in the red half pant and chappals? the security types could be CISF as well. Marcos would usually not be seen as sentries more like a QRT thing.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 09 Apr 2012 07:29

Reg, the "glaze" of the ATV's hull,remember the detail mentioned-probably somewhere in the archives,about the ATV's anechoic tiles? They were supposedly rough and not smooth,specially developed by one of our labs.It does look from the pic different from Russian anechoic tiles.The outline of the large forward sonar (probably passive?) too at the base of the sail is also clearly visible.The free flood apertures in the hull are also neater than in Russian subs,which though they look crude in comparison with western subs,are very quiet possibly because of double acoustic insulation with the double hull at key locations.

SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SagarAg » 09 Apr 2012 07:45

From LiveFist NOVEMBER 21, 2010:
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11/mag-report-indias-secret-k-missile.html
Image

Same picture from LiveFist post dated AUGUST 06, 2009: :-? :?:
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/08/arihant.html

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 09 Apr 2012 08:07

first look it appeared like le terrible, but the terrible has more angular sail than arihant which is more roundish.

on the tile or coating you guys are talking, question would be why it is not uniform pattern? at places we can see bumps as if some transparent plastic sheet with air pockets inside captured.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Austin » 09 Apr 2012 09:44

Compare this picture of launch of modernised Delta 4 SSBN

http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/34689.html

Both Arihant and Delta 4 have near identical sail with diving planes ahead of the sail

An Indian Naval Officer is also present at the launch ceremony , last picture

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 09 Apr 2012 10:37

the Chinese Jin class SSBN also has delta4 template.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Austin » 09 Apr 2012 10:56

The Jin Class to be looks more horrible then Delta 4 , Although it has a nice slope hump compared to boxy of Delta 4

http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/images/JinSSBNx.jpg

Funny the Chinese inspite of having 25 years lead in developing SSBN has not carried a single deterrence patrol so far , probably shows their confidence in SSBN design, ONI still rates the Jin class having detectability even lower than Delta 3

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13112
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 09 Apr 2012 10:57

Well from what I have observed across the big navies SSBNs tend to have the diving planes on the coning tower while the SSNs have retractable planes in the fore section of the main hull (Seawolf, Astute, Baracuda and Akula).

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13112
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 09 Apr 2012 10:58

That Chini supmarine looks like a large salt water crocodile that has rolled upside down after swallowing a buffalo. :rotfl:

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10099
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 09 Apr 2012 11:04

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Will never be able to get this sentence out of my mind every time i see a pic of the Chini sub...

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13760
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Suraj » 09 Apr 2012 12:35

Here's the other open source pic of the Arihant:
Image
source: Livefist
There's no massive hump like either the Deltas or worse, the 094 Jin class. It looks a lot more like the Le Triomphant class SSBNs but without the same clean lines. The external hydrodynamics look superior to the Chinese SSBNs and probably better than the Deltas too, if the propulsion and internal sound/vibration isolation systems are also good.

Another interesting thing. These pics on this thread from 2009 analyze the SBC's location:
Link
Link
As you can see, the Chakra was berthed in front of the short covered pen seen here:
Image
The pen can be seen in front of the Chakra in the second pic from Shiv Aroor livefist blogpost: link
The SBC is the long building behind it - long enough to hold 3~4 subs, each about as long as Chakra. Gagan's picture shows that the harbor is quite extensive, but they parked the Chakra all the way up in front of the SBC. I wonder if this will herald more pictures of the Arihant (and even Aridaman) soon enough.

member_22286
BRFite
Posts: 812
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_22286 » 09 Apr 2012 12:38

Suraj I request you to remove those pics immediately and i mean it

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13760
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Suraj » 09 Apr 2012 12:43

Ashok Gottipati wrote:Suraj I request you to remove those pics immediately and i mean it

All of them have already been posted on this thread previously, around 2.5 years ago.

SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SagarAg » 09 Apr 2012 12:44

^Why :shock: :?:
I don't think these pics show anything we don't already know about.
Or there is something we are unaware :wink: :!:

member_22286
BRFite
Posts: 812
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_22286 » 09 Apr 2012 12:47

Suraj wrote:
Ashok Gottipati wrote:Suraj I request you to remove those pics immediately and i mean it

All of them have already been posted on this thread previously, around 2.5 years ago.


I request you to remove the second pic of the installlations and I mean it.I don't who took that pic but it is not meant to be in a open forum.If you are a patriot please remove that pic
Last edited by Gerard on 09 Apr 2012 17:56, edited 6 times in total.
Reason: Ashok Gottipati, the second photo is actually one of a series that have been on the internet for a couple of years. Please use the report post function to tell the mods your concerns. Like Suraj, I don't see the problem.

SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SagarAg » 09 Apr 2012 12:48

SidSom wrote:Speaking of Chinese subs.. Can never forget this incident. Impressive that ChiPanda's were able to swim through Khan's electronic net. Please note this is not a recent event and happened many years back. It was relevent to this discussion on the capability of Chisubs....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

I am sure that the chinese were sitting with their ears glued to their sonars to track and get the signature of Chakra as she passed along their shores to India, would it have been more advisable to take an alternate route....???


The route taken by INS Chakra from Russia (Sea of Japan) to India (Vizag) is classified. How do you know it took the route you are thinking of. :)

SidSom
BRFite
Posts: 119
Joined: 01 May 2011 07:49

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SidSom » 09 Apr 2012 12:59

Sagar Sir,

X- Posting from Chakra thread

Post subject: Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?Posted: 07 Apr 2012 23:33

Have no idea how to upload image. Please have a look at shyamd's post

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 09 Apr 2012 13:25

I am getting the strong spider feeling the Arihant itself is sized to carry another 4 tubes though might not be fitted right now.

if not, the aridaman will likely be longer and add these.

missile length does not change in either case and it sets a min floor on the hull diameter. as we have seen in ohio class you can add a shitload of tubes (long sub) without needing to make the hull any bigger than minimum needed to hold the missiles. sure it will likely add 50x4 + 10= 210t to the loaded weight of the sub due to missile and tubes, but not too high a penalty a speed probably. for a 6000t sub thats only 3% weight gain.


SagarAg
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 12 May 2011 15:51

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SagarAg » 09 Apr 2012 15:21

^No :!:
Its a kilo class. Infact both are Kilo class submarines :)
Last edited by SagarAg on 09 Apr 2012 15:34, edited 1 time in total.

akimalik
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 11:27

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby akimalik » 09 Apr 2012 15:23

Tiger Singh wrote:is it Arihant ??

nope, check out its dimensions.

member_22710
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_22710 » 09 Apr 2012 15:32

akimalik wrote:
Tiger Singh wrote:is it Arihant ??

nope, check out its dimensions.


I was confused due to yellow arrow shaped paint profile on front , is it usual for IN to have it, as I have not seen such coating on any other vessel.


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 09 Apr 2012 16:26

its just the marking for the cyclindrical sonar area.
kilos and arihant use the same family of indian sonar.

inshallah we shall open three stream of n-subs in due course
- Arihant++ SSBN class = 8-12 tubes = A3SL payload or in conventional mode 3 X tubes worth of nirbhay
- new hunter-killer 4500t littoral warfare optimized SSN - mainly ASM/mines ... small and speedy
- SSGN class - shore bombardment , vengeance weapon, carrier-killer....anything which needs a huge salvo of medium to large missiles. a loadout of 20 VL-brahmos and 40 Klubs would be good in carrier killer role, or else 60 nirbhay between the vl tubes and torpedo room. a single sub should be able to unleash a devastating barrage on shore targets and slip away.

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/120645.jpg

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 09 Apr 2012 17:16

The ATV's missile silos resemble a "4-pack" modular system,which USN subs are following.Thus an ATV could ideally have between 3-4 "4-Packs" is meant to carry just one ICBM per silo.5 ATVs/SSBNs with at least 12 ICBMs per sub,with 3 MIRVs per missile,would give us 180 warheads carried by the underwater leg of the triad.If this constitutes about 1/3rd of our strategic deterrent which includes road and rail mobile ICBM/IRBMs and those by strategic bomber sqds.,,we could have an arsenal of around 400-500 missiles/warheads enough to deter both the PRC and Pak.

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby tejas » 09 Apr 2012 18:26

Ohio class SSGN has 154 Tomahawks :eek:

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 09 Apr 2012 19:01

but its unlikely all tubes are filled unless its a special attack mission giving time to come out with a full warload. one such Ohio SSBN allegedly unleashed its full complement in the first night of attack of libya before slipping away. not to be outdone Bartania sent over a SSN to "unleash" another 5-8 tomahawks in strong support :rotfl:

kind of like a chihuahua providing "backing" for a gorilla.

p.s. I read somewhere khan SSBNs do not normally have all the tubes filled with trident missiles, some are empty. having 18 subs, atleast 3-4 would be on deterrent patrol any given time, and with MIRV capability they dont need too many tubes to flatten anyone.

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby tejas » 09 Apr 2012 19:19

154 Tomahawks is indeed the max load out for the Ohio SSGN. The Ohio SSBN with 24 Trident D5s with 10 MIRVs each. So that one sub has more nukes than the entire UQ. :shock: BTW that India Today article by Sandeep Unnithan said India was the sixth country to have underwater ballistic missile launch technology. It is actually the fifth( Umrikah, Ivan, France, China, Yindia). Tridents gifted to UQ obviously can't be counted. The Indian press should always publicize this fact along with the fact that the UQ has no indigenous satellite launch capabilities. :D

Now that Briturd aid has been stopped, India should offer aid to Briturd's space program, should they ever start one :lol:


Return to “Mil-Tech Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests