INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 18 Dec 2014 12:38

We did not have a SSBN till now in fact we still don't , Arihant will take some time before she actually goes on an official voyage loaded with SLBMs so this talk about it's shorter fuel cycle is a bit too negative to be taken seriously. Even otherwise we are going to be operating more than on SSBN in coming years so we will have at least one sub operational and ready for all eventualities all the time.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby pankajs » 18 Dec 2014 13:23

SSridhar wrote:INS Arihant may be of limited utility - S. Anandan, The Hindu
[>>quote]Worse, the capacity of the reactor suggests that Arihant will hardly be available for operational patrol even for one-fifth of its lifespan, having to spend great amounts of time on transit to patrol areas.

“The effective fuel inventory of the submarine reactor is insufficient for longer duration deployment of the vessel far away from Indian shores, as it will necessitate frequent fuel changes that are time-consuming,” said a Navy veteran, who was previously associated with the project.[<</quote]

Let's ask some basic questions to get the correct perspective on the issue.
1. Is the Arihant a hunter/killer or is it a boomer hanji?
2. Will it be deployed in the Pacific or the Atlantic on deterrence patrol or will it be chasing some *ch1nki* sub in *sooth-ch1nk see* hanji ... given all this talk of *transit* and deployment *far away*?

I wazz under the impression that the said sub was a boomer and would mostly be deployed in the Bay of Bengal just off its home port.

Assuming that this is a hunter/killer/boomer hybrid that *may* see deployment *far far away*, the fuel supplies for the humans would necessitate a *far far* more regular visit to home port and consequent time wasted in *transit* than the limitations of the reactor.

The fart highlights the utter incompetence of the author and his refusal to do some basic thinking rather than any deficiencies in the sub. Best ignored.
Last edited by pankajs on 18 Dec 2014 17:21, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Will » 18 Dec 2014 14:16

SSridhar wrote:INS Arihant may be of limited utility - S. Anandan, The Hindu
India’s first indigenous nuclear submarine, INS Arihant (S2), which made its first foray into the sea on Monday for mandatory trials ahead of induction into the Navy, may in effect be a limited utility submarine, if not just a technology demonstrator.

The ballistic missile nuclear submarine (SSBN), said to add the third dimension of the nuclear triad by giving India the vital survivable second-strike capability, falls short of ensuring credible minimum deterrence, sources said.

Worse, the capacity of the reactor suggests that Arihant will hardly be available for operational patrol even for one-fifth of its lifespan, having to spend great amounts of time on transit to patrol areas.

“The effective fuel inventory of the submarine reactor is insufficient for longer duration deployment of the vessel far away from Indian shores, as it will necessitate frequent fuel changes that are time-consuming,” said a Navy veteran, who was previously associated with the project.

Fuel change in a submarine reactor, he said is a protracted and cumbersome process requiring the hull of the submarine to be cut open. The nuclear attack submarine (SSN) that India operates on a 10-year lease from Russia, INS Chakra (S1), for instance, is said to have reactor with a longer effective core life, granting it more time on patrol.”

The Arihant project — the first of the three SSBNs built by India under its ATV [Advanced Technology Vessel] programme under the supervision the Prime Minister’s Office and involving agencies and establishments such as the DRDO, the Department of Atomic Energy, the Submarine Design Group of the Directorate of Naval Design, besides companies such as L&T — had been under wraps for decades until its high-voltage launch in 2009.

The 83-MW uranium reactor, developed by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) with generous support from Russia, went critical in August last year. The submarine should have entered service in 2012, as originally planned. As the sea-acceptance trials that have just begun are slated to take at least nine months if everything goes as planned and without hiccups, Arihant will at best be inducted in 2016.

“This is our first home-made submarine reactor, so the Nuclear Safety Regulatory Authority was cautious in its approach and didn’t want to give the go-ahead for sea trials without a thorough check,” said an official explaining the delay.

The submarine arm of the Navy had previously expressed its reservations over the long “turnaround time” and frequent “fuel change cycles” of the Arihant class of submarines.

Official sources told The Hindu that the sea-acceptance trials would last at least nine months, if not more.
“As the submarine with its onboard crew has to remain submerged for about 90 days at a stretch during deployments, there will be a lot of environment checks carried out during the sea trials.”

Meanwhile, work on the second Arihant -class submarine, INS Aridhaman (S3), is already behind schedule and nowhere near launch.

Arihant is said to have been built at a cost of $2.9 billion. “But that is not the unit cost of the submarine. The material cost apart, it includes the money spent on setting up facilities such as the submarine reactor complex in Kalpakkam, the Defence Machinery and Design Establishment in Hyderabad and the Ship Building Centre in Vizag. However, to amortise the amount, India should be building a series of nuclear submarines,” a source said.



What a MORON :twisted:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Pratyush » 18 Dec 2014 14:22

Was a schedule ever published for the class??

India wants to know (in Arnob Mode)

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby uddu » 18 Dec 2014 15:14


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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Kartik » 18 Dec 2014 16:24

kvraghav wrote:The article seems to suggest that it will have to transit bank and forth to patrolling areas because of fuel. Is it like the fuel will be exhausted before crew supplies?


what it suggests is that the uranium fuel carried on board will not last as long as it does with other nuclear subs. which means that as it goes on longer patrols, the Arihant will need to go in for fuel replenishment which is a very involved and time consuming task. But a fleet of 4 Arihant class SSBNs would mean that at any given time there will likely be at least 2 available for deterrent patrols while the other 2 go into refits during which they'll also probably get refueled.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Kartik » 18 Dec 2014 16:29

pankajs wrote:
SSridhar wrote:INS Arihant may be of limited utility - S. Anandan, The Hindu
[>>quote]Worse, the capacity of the reactor suggests that Arihant will hardly be available for operational patrol even for one-fifth of its lifespan, having to spend great amounts of time on transit to patrol areas.

“The effective fuel inventory of the submarine reactor is insufficient for longer duration deployment of the vessel far away from Indian shores, as it will necessitate frequent fuel changes that are time-consuming,” said a Navy veteran, who was previously associated with the project.[<</quote]

Let's ask some basic questions to get the correct perspective on the issue.
1. Is the Arihant a hunter/killer or is it a bloomer hanji?
2. Will it be deployed in the Pacific or the Atlantic on deterrence patrol or will it be chasing some *ch1nki* sub in *sooth-ch1nk see* hanji ... given all this talk of *transit* and deployment *far away*?

I wazz under the impression that the said sub was a bloomer and would mostly be deployed in the Bay of Bengal just off its home port.

Assuming that this is a hunter/killer/bloomer hybrid that *may* see deployment *far far away*, the fuel supplies for the humans would necessitate a *far far* more regular visit to home port and consequent time wasted in *transit* than the limitations of the reactor.

The fart highlights the utter incompetence of the author and his refusal to do some basic thinking rather than any deficiencies in the sub. Best ignored.


bloomer nahi sirji, boomer bolo boomer..

The INS Arihant will not just be restricted to the Bay of Bengal. The Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea, perhaps even the South China Sea will all be traversed by its crew. That is what the nuclear powerplant confers- longer range, endurance and sustained speed.

But you're correct- the primary restriction will be placed on it by the supplies for its crew, not because its nuclear reactor will run out of uranium.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby pankajs » 18 Dec 2014 17:07

Oops ... will correct. Thanks saar.

Boomers will be restricted to a sanitized local water body for the foreseeable future and will move out only under exceptional circumstance. The hunter/killer will of-course venture to South China sea and beyond but that role is still far off. The first 3 will primary be in the strategic role until the bigger mark 2 version takes over.

Sub crews psychological endurance underwater in a cramped space is the primary restriction on the duration of a patrol especially when one or more will have a finger on the nuclear button. Even the crew supplies are secondary.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby kmc_chacko » 18 Dec 2014 19:26

srin wrote:To summarize the article:
a) Arihant is a technology demonstrator and deterrence capability is limited. But we need more in same class. And Arihant and Aridhaman are way behind schedule.
:shock:

b) By the time, it reaches its assigned patrol area it will be short on fuel, so it will have return back.
This actually makes sense - it took 2 years to just get out of Vizag harbour. At that speed, just how long would it take to go to Arabian sea or to South China sea and return ? :lol:



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
nice one 8)

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 18 Dec 2014 19:54

krishnan wrote:how credible is the author ?

forget the credibility... look at his intentions and premise of writing such articles. besides, the news media organization he is affiliated to (hard core commies).

totally negative and unreal.

kartik, bloomer (tongue of the slip for boomer should get into BRF dictionary/fyi: ArmenT). remember, we will always deliver petals at end-games. :)

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby HKumar » 18 Dec 2014 20:15

Arihant sailing out.

http://youtu.be/e0aILrrz5y4

[youtube]http://youtu.be/e0aILrrz5y4[/youtube]

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby dinesha » 18 Dec 2014 20:15

Victor wrote:
Sid wrote:China will make sure such strategic imbalance does not go unchecked.

Dunno about that. They would hate to see Vietnam with a nuke sub.


Recently Chinese Newspaper published an Article in which it was stated that Pakistan is begging/negotiating for 3 Nuclear Subs from China since mid-2013 ..One to be built in China and other two in Karachi..

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Suraj » 18 Dec 2014 21:20

Please discuss Chinese/Pakistani actions in the relevant threads, not here.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Gyan » 18 Dec 2014 21:24

INS Arihant may be of limited utility - S. Anandan, The Hindu
India’s first indigenous nuclear submarine, INS Arihant (S2), which made its first foray into the sea on Monday for mandatory trials ahead of induction into the Navy, may in effect be a limited utility submarine, if not just a technology demonstrator.

The ballistic missile nuclear submarine (SSBN), said to add the third dimension of the nuclear triad by giving India the vital survivable second-strike capability, falls short of ensuring credible minimum deterrence, sources said.

Worse, the capacity of the reactor suggests that Arihant will hardly be available for operational patrol even for one-fifth of its lifespan, having to spend great amounts of time on transit to patrol areas.
Foreign submarines are simply zoomed into patrol areas and do not transit.
“The effective fuel inventory of the submarine reactor is insufficient for longer duration deployment of the vessel far away from Indian shores, as it will necessitate frequent fuel changes that are time-consuming,” said a Navy veteran, who was previously associated with the project. So fuel change say every 10 or 20 years would be too frequent compared to imported SSk which needs fuel every 10 or 20 weeks.

Fuel change in a submarine reactor, he said is a protracted and cumbersome process requiring the hull of the submarine to be cut open. The nuclear attack submarine (SSN) that India operates on a 10-year lease from Russia, INS Chakra (S1), for instance, is said to have reactor with a longer effective core life, granting it more time on patrol.”

The Arihant project — the first of the three SSBNs built by India under its ATV [Advanced Technology Vessel] programme under the supervision the Prime Minister’s Office and involving agencies and establishments such as the DRDO, the Department of Atomic Energy, the Submarine Design Group of the Directorate of Naval Design, besides companies such as L&T — had been under wraps for decades until its high-voltage launch in 2009.

The 83-MW uranium reactor, developed by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) with generous support from Russia, went critical in August last year. The submarine should have entered service in 2012, as originally planned. As the sea-acceptance trials that have just begun are slated to take at least nine months if everything goes as planned and without hiccups, Arihant will at best be inducted in 2016.

“This is our first home-made submarine reactor, so the Nuclear Safety Regulatory Authority was cautious in its approach and didn’t want to give the go-ahead for sea trials without a thorough check,” said an official explaining the delay.

The submarine arm of the Navy had previously expressed its reservations over the long “turnaround time” and frequent “fuel change cycles” of the Arihant class of submarines.

Official sources told The Hindu that the sea-acceptance trials would last at least nine months, if not more.
“As the submarine with its onboard crew has to remain submerged for about 90 days at a stretch during deployments, there will be a lot of environment checks carried out during the sea trials.”

Meanwhile, work on the second Arihant -class submarine, INS Aridhaman (S3), is already behind schedule and nowhere near launch. Did mommy come and give you this information??

Arihant is said to have been built at a cost of $2.9 billion. “But that is not the unit cost of the submarine. The material cost apart, it includes the money spent on setting up facilities such as the submarine reactor complex in Kalpakkam, the Defence Machinery and Design Establishment in Hyderabad and the Ship Building Centre in Vizag. However, to amortise the amount, India should be building a series of nuclear submarines,” a source said. Actually Arihant budget was USD 30000 Billion including the budget for clearing the smell of brain farts
Last edited by Gyan on 19 Dec 2014 14:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby arshyam » 18 Dec 2014 22:59

Has anyone considered this Hindu article to be a part of psyops? I mean, they do have great correspondents like TSS, so such a lame article does not add up. Secondly, this article claims S1 was/is INS Chakra, whereas other sources have said it is the land testbed based in Kalpakkam. Third, this article says INS Aridhaman is nowhere close to completion, but other sources (ToI, prev page on this thread) say the hull was finished a while ago and will be launched soon. Finally, for a project shrouded in much secrecy, why the heck will they tom-tom this 'sea-trial' trip?

I personally would take this all with a pinch of salt - all I know is that a new IN sub sailed out recently.

Here's Arihant's timeline in open source I know, please add if I missed something:
Jul 2009: TSS@Frontline: Arihant launched
Aug 2013: TSS@Frontline: Arihant's reactor goes critical.
Jan 2014: Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar @TheHindu Harbour trials are over and the Arihant is set to undergo sea trials in a few weeks or months.
Jun 2014: Praveen Swami @TheHindu: "Earlier this year, India’s first indigenously built nuclear submarine quietly pushed out of its base for sea trials"
Aug 2014: Vishnu and Pallav Bagla @NDTV shows the sub in harbour (?)
Aug 2014: Bharat Karnad speculates it has been taken to crushing depths. (his theory was discounted in this thread and in the blog post's comments, but one comment said "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Hmm, clearly the sub was out in the water, who knows where it went?)
Dec 2014: NDTV Arihant sails out with much fanfare and 'flagging off' - might as well hand out embossed invitations to the USN and PLAN. Why?
Dec 2014: S. Anandan @Hindu says the sub is of 'limited utility' and says the others are far from completion.
Dec 2014: Rajat Pandit @ToI says Aridhaman is close to being launched and S-4 is in advanced fabrication on building blocks.

Please draw your own conclusions.

I prefer to think that our scientists who invested an enormous effort in building many systems for the first time (read the detailed Frontline article linked above) would not build something that is of 'limited utility' that has to be refueled so frequently that it cannot make any patrol. To top it all, announce a new launch with much fanfare so all the world can stop by and try get a sonar signature at Vizag outer.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Shalav » 18 Dec 2014 23:10

I don't think it was a coincidence that the Arihant sailed forth on the same day the IN and CG was deployed on more or the less the same line in the BoB for the launch and recovery of ISRO's CARE module.

If there are subs there recording the Arihant "signature" the IN too is deployed recording real-time signatures of those vessels in return. An IN honeypot if you will. Why declare the timing with such precision else-wise? :twisted:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby arshyam » 18 Dec 2014 23:14

That's a good point, I wasn't aware of the IN/CG deployment. But even then, why declare the timing? So satellites can try get in position and try to study the wake as the sub leaves the harbour? Big mystery onlee...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby srin » 18 Dec 2014 23:49

Shalav wrote:I don't think it was a coincidence that the Arihant sailed forth on the same day the IN and CG was deployed on more or the less the same line in the BoB for the launch and recovery of ISRO's CARE module.

If there are subs there recording the Arihant "signature" the IN too is deployed recording real-time signatures of those vessels in return. An IN honeypot if you will. Why declare the timing with such precision else-wise? :twisted:


IN/CG can do zilch about a foreign ship outside territorial waters. And there may be no benefit in getting a signature of an old cargo ship retrofitted with a good sonar. I'm still puzzled that they announced it to the entire world.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Shalav » 18 Dec 2014 23:58

Sometimes simple explanations are really that simple.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 19 Dec 2014 02:36

a well known signature to the world may not be the well known signature for real-times!

a noise generator module is enough

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Dec 2014 11:25

arshyam wrote:Has anyone considered this Hindu article to be a part of psyops?


As I see, he has presented the views of an ex. He has not owned anything that is being said by the ex. He has the ownership of the story.

This month, a reporter had asked WNC chief that some ex say that naval ships are too old to operate and IN is in dire needs. The VADM replied that the hierarchical structure is narrow leading to discontent in those who do not make it up the pyramid. He said, it is important to hear what they say too.

Someone told me that Akula II will be imposed on us.

It is up to us to figure out the differences.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_20317 » 19 Dec 2014 11:57

chackojoseph wrote:Someone told me that Akula II will be imposed on us.


That someone had also told me, that some scribe would tell that to us. :D

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby pankajs » 19 Dec 2014 12:13

Just to check on USN's sub deployment cycle. The data may be a bit dated but no point in perusing this further because the data clearly contradicts the main point of the fart. It took me less than 5 minutes to get this info.

http://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/slbm/ssbn-726.htm
The Ohio-class submarines are specifically designed for extended deterrent patrols. To increase the time in port for crew turnover and replenishment, three large logistics hatches are fitted to provide large diameter resupply and repair openings. These hatches allow sailors to rapidly transfer supply pallets, equipment replacement modules and machinery components, significantly reducing the time required for replenishment and maintenance. The class design and modern main concepts allow the submarines to operate for 15+ years between overhauls. Each SSBN is at sea at least 66 percent of the time, including major overhaul periods of twelve months every nine years. One SSBN combat employment cycle includes a 70-day patrol and 25-day period of transfer of the submarine to the other crew, between-deployment maintenance, and reloading of munitions.

70 day patrol with 25 day transfer period for a sub designed to maximize time on patrol. Would the refueling cycle for Arihant be less than 70 days *forcing* *more* *frequent* home port vizit and therefore *more* *time* in *transit* to and from the patrol area?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby JTull » 19 Dec 2014 13:53

pankajs wrote:Would the refueling cycle for Arihant be less than 70 days *forcing* *more* *frequent* home port vizit and therefore *more* *time* in *transit* to and from the patrol area?


There's a difference between refueling a nuclear sub and replenishing it with new supplies! With Arihant we can expect 7-8 years from when the reactor became critical (early 2013). The refueling/overhaul may take 2-3 years as this would be our first attempt at it. I'd expect, by then, we may have all three of the Arihant class operationally deployed and first of the follow on class getting ready. We should learn as much as possible with that refuel cycle as things will only get easier after that.

Besides, for hunters, we'll have 2 of the Chakra class and probably 4-5 of the Scorpenes active. Things would be pretty rosy for IN's sub surface arm around 2020.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 19 Dec 2014 15:08

The A has had ample opportunities to have made secret sojourns into the sea .In any case at some point of time its external features have to be revealed.All global SSBN/SSN pics are available. No big deal. The timing of the official sojourn to sea is important as it comes just after Putin's visit ,12+ N-plants in the bag,news of a second Akula and O'Bomber's forthcoming one. A strong signal to the mandarins of Zhongnanhai.

Secondly,no individual worth his salt would've designed for the ATV series a reactor that exhausts itself after each voyage,or even every few years! That is ludicrous and the report by the CHindu's reporter needs to be taken with an ocean of salt. Neither is the IN/DRDO responsible for the design/operations going to give out the sub's reactor lifespan. If the sub has been designed for a lifespan for around 30 years,then perhaps at least a 10 yr. cycle may have been factored in for the reactor of the first sub,which it may be very true also acts as a tech demo. Subsequent subs may have larger more powerful reactors,the task was to perfect the first one built totally at home. Let's assume that even if the reactor is based upon the Chakra-1's reactor,assuming that it is a Russian design built in India,it should be easy to find out that reactor's refueling cycle. It cannot be inferior to it,surely a far superior later model. However,whether her missiles can be reloaded at sea is another point.Esp. if N-tipped missiles are to be loaded.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chackojoseph » 19 Dec 2014 17:34

ravi_g wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:Someone told me that Akula II will be imposed on us.


That someone had also told me, that some scribe would tell that to us. :D


Really? What else did he tell?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 19 Dec 2014 20:29

the peculiar shape of the front edge of sail in Borei class seems to be borrowed from the speed record papa class.
it must be aiding speed in some way

http://rwhiston.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/nuke_15.jpg

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Shalav » 19 Dec 2014 21:14

Perhaps it works in a similar way to the aerospikes on rockets - to reduce pressure drag?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2014 18:38

JTull wrote:[*quote="pankajs"]Would the refueling cycle for Arihant be less than 70 days *forcing* *more* *frequent* home port vizit and therefore *more* *time* in *transit* to and from the patrol area?[*/quote]

There's a difference between refueling a nuclear sub and replenishing it with new supplies! With Arihant we can expect 7-8 years from when the reactor became critical (early 2013).
I know saar. Per the fart the *frequent* reactor refulling need will keep the sub mostly in transit than on patrol. I was trying to point out the absurdity of that logic.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 519_1.html
Premvir Das: Arihant and what it means
The writer retired as Commander-in-Chief of the Eastern Naval Command and has been member of the National Security Advisory Board
As INS Arihant finally starts her sea trials, India becomes the sixth country in the world which can both make and operate nuclear-powered submarines, the others being USA, UK, France, Russia and China. While there are many which manufacture the smaller of such vessels propelled by conventional diesel-electric engines, the nuclear reactor-powered platform is many steps up the ladder of technology. So, all those connected with the project deserve the nation's approbation.

Conventional submarines, while possessing advantages of stealthy movement under water and reasonable endurance, are not without limitations. Depending on their technology, they will need to take in air to recharge their batteries every day either by coming to the surface or close to it so that the relevant air intakes are exposed. This makes them vulnerable to detection.

At such times, propelled by their diesel engines, they are also more 'noisy' and can be located by sensors quite far away. The frequency of such exposure, as also the duration needed for recharging, have been brought down in the more modern vessels but cannot be done away with altogether.

Additionally, while on the surface they can proceed at reasonably high speed - though for short periods as fuel consumption is an issue - submerged, the rate of movement is far slower, determined by limitations of the electric motors which provide propulsion. Their endurance depends on fuel availability which also has limits. Nuclear-powered submarines, on the other hand, have no need to move up from their depths and are, therefore, relatively invulnerable to detection from the air. The speeds at which they can move are also high and a function of reactor power.

Their vulnerabilities lie in the noise that they generate while moving. Not depending on replenishment of fuel, their endurance is much greater, limited only by that of their crew. They can also be larger and thereby carry greater weapon loads including missiles which could be fitted with nuclear warheads. While the 'on patrol' period for a conventional submarine, considering all these factors, might range around two weeks, that for the nuclear powered vessel could be as much as a few months. In short, these ships are in a class of their own.

It is not as if Arihant does not have limitations. For one, the reactor power of just under 90 Mw is much less capable than the 250 Mw-plus generated in contemporary submarines of its type. To produce that kind of power in a reactor of this size much more advanced technology is needed and that will be a bridge that will have to be crossed - with assistance if necessary, as has been the case in this instance. When operational in about two years, the Arihant will have nuclear weapon capability, though of limited range, with a longer-distance capability to follow.

Yet, the achievements are considerable. The entire hull, all of special steels and metallurgy, has been fabricated indigenously in a private sector shipyard; this will be repeated in follow-on vessels. Engineering giants and smaller firms in the private sector have contributed with major machinery and auxiliary systems and several public sector units have also played meaningful parts. To bring all of these together and finally create the 'baby' that is Arihant is a formidable achievement by any standard.

The much maligned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has steered the so called Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV) project from inception and should be justifiably proud. And so should the Navy which 'fathered' this dream through several years starting 1984, when a pioneer - the late Vice Admiral MK Roy, our own Admiral Rickover - successfully persuaded then Defence Minister Venkataraman that a nuclear-powered submarine was an idea whose time had come.

This brings us to the substance of this discussion - the role of a platform like the Arihant and its successors. Ordinary submarines they are surely not, and to even think in those terms would be self-defeating. They have endurance and staying power and, therefore, range but to think of them as ships which are there to fight and sink other ships is facile. With their nuclear warheads and invulnerability, they give to the country a strategic capability which no other platform can. Land silos and sites can be detected from space and their activities monitored, and aircraft can be intercepted and destroyed even after they are airborne with their weapon loads, but this underwater vehicle is out of sight and out of reach, literally.

It is the only mechanism in which the warhead and its delivery system, the missile, are mated before being embarked; in all others the two are kept separated till the very end. It does not need to fire any of its weaponry; the fact that it can do so is its power. It is a deterrent against nuclear blackmail by those with sinister intentions and larger capabilities.

One can easily imagine the awesome responsibilities that this unique configuration places on those assigned to command ships like Arihant and the safeguards that need to be inbuilt in the command and control mechanisms for nuclear submarines. Here, we have lessons to learn from the experience of those countries which have managed these platforms for long. India has operated such vessels leased from Russia twice, once in the 1980s and again since 2012, both being named Chakra though the present one is a very much larger and more versatile submarine compared to the former; both nuclear powered but without nuclear weapons. This exposure should facilitate the induction of Arihant.{Did these vessels have the 'nuclear' command and control mechanisms for our forces to learn from and emulate/improvise/modify for our own needs?}

Dedicated infrastructure ashore to ensure the required degree of safety was set up when the first Chakra came in and must certainly have been updated and augmented by the Navy as found necessary. These facilities are essential wherever such vessels are based and observance of safety procedures has to be strictly enforced. Crew training has to be rigorous and exacting; psychological orientation to cope with prolonged periods spent on deployment underwater is especially important.{Especially when a number of mated nuclear warhead will be under their control}

The strategic security environment has now shifted to the Asia-Pacific with the seas beginning to play increasingly important roles. Given the focus on energy dependence of most major nations and on overseas trade and the water space through which both move, it is not surprising that this region is beginning to be referred to as the Indo-Pacific.

India is the largest and most capable Indian Ocean littoral - and must continue to retain that profile and discharge the responsibilities that go with that status - but it also has serious interests in the western Pacific through which half of its overseas trade moves. Peace and tranquility in this vast oceanic space linked through several narrow channels of south-east Asia is an essential prerequisite to its own growth.

All of this necessitates having capabilities at sea that will cope with concerns both proximate and strategic. While a mix of conventional forces is needed to meet the first, it will be submarines like the Arihant which will be our shield for the latter. With more than one nuclear weapons power deploying in the Indo-Pacific, it is a capability which we badly needed and will soon have. May fair winds and following seas attend Arihant.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_28782 » 21 Dec 2014 18:57

Has anyone used the pic of Arihant heading out to sea to double check the length and consequently the displacement of the sub.
We conveniently have men standing on it for reference. I would have done it but.... math.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby maz » 21 Dec 2014 20:29

I'd estimate a length of 114-120m. This is close to the 112m figure in media articles.

Displacement per several internet sources - possibly chaiwallas, paanwallas or what have you - on various fora is closer to 9000 tons.

I reckon specs will surface in the fullness of time.

For my edification what are the differences between a chaiwalla, paanwalla and other wallas?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Mihir » 21 Dec 2014 20:58

Shalav wrote:Perhaps it works in a similar way to the aerospikes on rockets - to reduce pressure drag?


There has been some speculation that it is an anti-vortex measure.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_28640 » 22 Dec 2014 09:35

Singha wrote:the peculiar shape of the front edge of sail in Borei class seems to be borrowed from the speed record papa class.
it must be aiding speed in some way

http://rwhiston.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/nuke_15.jpg

By Distributing the incoming water pressure over a larger contour area the drag actually increases !! Mostly for reducing Sail noise during high speed maybe also vortex eddies ...

Edit : Sorry didnt see Mihirs comments above

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Rahul M » 22 Dec 2014 09:42

that anandan story about how a nuke sub needs re-fueling as soon as it reaches its AOR is simply another of those 'arjun's torsion-bar broke down' story.

move along people, nothing to see here.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SNaik » 22 Dec 2014 14:21

The console on the right has a diagram of the shape and division of Arihant's pressure hull. I would suggest that a revision of the submerged part of the hull drawings may be necessary.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aUpgl1bQhoY/VJY8ODRdD-I/AAAAAAAAIuc/LJBssNkkkGU/s1600/TATA%2BConsultancy%2BServices-supplied%2BHardware%2Bfor%2BS-2%2BArihant%2BSSBN1.jpg

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby dinesha » 22 Dec 2014 14:25


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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 23 Dec 2014 06:31

^^ good find Snaik. would indicate there is a similar hump at the bottom as well, a first among missile subs perhaps.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 23 Dec 2014 07:18

good article dinesha.. no negatives!

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chackojoseph » 23 Dec 2014 07:27

Image

INS Arihant heading for sea trial. Photo from twitter handle of Vishal Thapar

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby krishnan » 23 Dec 2014 07:35

there is something protruding at the back, what is that ?


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