Indian Space Program Discussion

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MN Kumar
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 16 Dec 2012 17:38

GSLV Mk3 mockup:

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 16 Dec 2012 17:41

Agree with D Roy.

When you see any article on science and technology with the word "prestige" littered all over it, you can bet the author is being derisive.

No mention of NASA stealing the claim of Chandrayaan-1 having discovered water on the moon from ISRO. However, the author is sure to mention Chandrayaan's orbit being raised due to a thermal problem. If I was the director for the satellite, I'd raise the ****ing orbit before I lost control of the satellite and certainly before I'd gathered approvals from "partners" in triplicate. The author also chooses not to mention that NASA could've provided ISRO with a thermal model for the moon. Anyone wonder why that transfer didn't take place between "partners"?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby member_23694 » 16 Dec 2012 20:36

MN Kumar wrote:GSLV Mk3 mockup:

Image


Light this candle. Can't wait for it to takeoff. Any idea when it is to be tested.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Hiten » 17 Dec 2012 02:21

Dr. Satish Dhawan with Dr. Roddam Narsimha

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 17 Dec 2012 12:27

MN Kumar wrote:GSLV Mk3 mockup:

Image


MN Kumar, thanks for the photo. I will inline the image again ... (and TSJ can take it to reputable magazines)

Looks like lot of construction activity going, is this the third launch pad? It will not ready until this time next year. In the meantime, newbies should take a note of how the solid boosters are stacked on the pad. The red thingy around the solid rocket nozzles are clamps that will hold down the rocket till it develops a sufficient thrust. There is a vent below the nozzles, the exhaust is vented away from the pad. The bracing around the vent is also partly visible (looks like zinc coated steel).

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby abhishek-nayak » 17 Dec 2012 16:52

MN Kumar wrote:GSLV Mk3 mockup:

Image



what???

is this a mockup? or the real thing?

this appears to be the second launch pad.

I checked the entire 2013 schedule and there is no mention of GSLV MK3 launch

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 17 Dec 2012 17:06

This is a mockup and this is a old news probably few months old. I read it in a regional daily about the trials but couldnt find an online link that time to post. They even carried a small version of the same picture in the print. Now I found this on mil photos site.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby abhishek-nayak » 17 Dec 2012 17:10

MN Kumar wrote:This is a mockup and this is a old news probably few months old. I read it in a regional daily about the trials but couldnt find an online link that time to post. They even carried a small version of the same picture in the print. Now I found this on mil photos site.



but are they launching it in 2013 or not because there is no mention of MK3 in the Press information bureau report.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby KrishG » 17 Dec 2012 18:23

abhishek-nayak wrote:
MN Kumar wrote:This is a mockup and this is a old news probably few months old. I read it in a regional daily about the trials but couldnt find an online link that time to post. They even carried a small version of the same picture in the print. Now I found this on mil photos site.



but are they launching it in 2013 or not because there is no mention of MK3 in the Press information bureau report.


Nope..lot of work needs to be still done on the C25. The engine has to be to fabricated and tested. Then there's the stage qualification tests.

So, it's no earlier than late 2014..that is if all goes well and on schedule.

disha wrote:ks like lot of construction activity going, is this the third launch pad?


AFAIK The third launchpad hasn't yet been approved. It was proposed for manned launches but it hasn't been approved in its full measure as is the case with the Human Spaceflight Program.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby D Roy » 17 Dec 2012 19:23

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=90497

The missions planned by Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in the next one year include - 3 Polar Satellite Launch Vehicles, 1 Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle, 2 Communication Satellites, 1 Earth Observation (Ocean) Satellite, 1 Meteorological Satellite, 1 Navigation Satellite and Mars orbiter.

ISRO is planning to accomplish Eight missions by September 2013 which include – (i) 2 Polar Satellite Launch Vehicles (C20, C22); (ii) 1 Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (D5); (iii) 2 Communication Satellites (GSAT-7, GSAT-14); (iv) 1 Earth Observation (Ocean) Satellite (SARAL); (v) 1 Meteorological Satellite (INSAT-3D); (vi) 1 Navigation Satellite (IRNSS-1A). Two (2) missions, which include PSLV-C25 and Mars Orbiter, are planned for October 2013.

The above information was given by the Minister of State in the Ministry Personnel, Public Grievances & Pensions and in the Prime Minister’s Office, Shri V. Narayanasamy to the Parliament.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby member_23694 » 17 Dec 2012 20:11

KrishG wrote:Nope..lot of work needs to be still done on the C25. The engine has to be to fabricated and tested. Then there's the stage qualification tests.


AFAIK the last info was test launch without C25 in first half of 2013 to test the other system/subsystem. Hope they stick with this plan :D

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 18 Dec 2012 08:37

"Quote:
mainly a fact list


It isn't even that.

It's a poorly pieced together list of numerous omissions and commissions."

You wonder if there is something uniquely American about that mixture of ignorance, parochialism and arrogance- which isn't to say that all Americans display the tendency. If an Indian from India were to write about, say, the Nigerian petroleum industry, or the Filipino fishing industry, or the Taiwanese electronics industry, would he be writing using the same language and approach? Something like, Nigerians have a large oil sector because it makes them feel big and prestigious, at one with the other oil powers; or that Taiwanese are into electronics in a big way because of the prestige and status associated with electronics, that the Americans and Japanese started etc. It's pretty hard to visualise an Indian writing in that vein.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby svinayak » 18 Dec 2012 10:57

Fundamentally they dont want to give credit to Indian achievements.

Chinese lunar missions are a suspect and there are no real visual photos from that mission and the third party ' verification of claims. But the 'achievements'; are published.

This race is being caliberated and raced in the media more than reality

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby TSJones » 18 Dec 2012 13:15

For those interested, please see:

http://unmannedspaceflight.com/

Under the lunar exploration thread there are a lot of postings on India's moon mission.

Please read the Rules and Guidelines before posting.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby VikramS » 18 Dec 2012 13:49

"
JE Menon wrote:TSJ

I think there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the article as its mainly a fact list. They ascribe motivations which in my opinion are entirely misjudged but that happens a lot with American observers of India and that's not a bad thing necessarily for either the US or us. For now. But the US is getting to know us better and vice versa every day almost. Hence the mild exasperation and questions that boil down to "what do you guys REALLY want?" Or "what is your real strategic posture"? And the like. They don't believe us when we tell them all we want is peace and love and harmony in the world. Beatles too recent in the collective psyche I suppose. But that truly is what we want and will work for, though we know a lot of killing is a part of the harmonization part. Being non-veg in spirit we will leave that part to the euros the Chinese and you chaps, who seem more comfortable and capable in that sort of thing. You will be surprised at how close above is to reality. :)


Couldn't agree more.
The biggest shock to me was the realization that the rest of the world is NOT like that. Took me a lot of time to get over that. What bothers me is that a vast number of Indics think that the rest of the world is like that onlee.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby abhishek-nayak » 18 Dec 2012 21:11

Acharya wrote:Fundamentally they dont want to give credit to Indian achievements.



thats precisely because india does not have a locus standi in international sayings.India is neither seen as a big power or a threat to west.

Thats why india is always underrated in the west. I hope to see the picture changing in 2030.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 18 Dec 2012 23:27

abhishek-nayak wrote:Thats precisely because india does not have a locus standi in international sayings.India is neither seen as a big power or a threat to west.

Thats why india is always underrated in the west. I hope to see the picture changing in 2030.


Among the aam-admi in "west" who are really clued in, India is a space power and an admired one at that. India does not get ESA contracts as a charity., or being "underrated".

Second thing is India does not need to genuflect under west's attention. Leave that to Chinese for working hard to obtain rah-rah attention from goras in the west.

And finally, what is this dhoti-shivering? Once GSLV Mk-III is achieved, it is no more a technological but budgetary constraint. It is always good to have budgetary constraint, instead of sending a man in space, will it be better for India to launch a craft to Europa? Instead of creating a space station to compete against ISS, will it not be better for India to develop a way to mine He3 on moon (and bring it back)? The goal for India should be to continue develop unique capabilities. If that requires a man in space, so be it.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 18 Dec 2012 23:35

TSJones wrote:For those interested, please see:
...
Please read the Rules and Guidelines before posting.


TSJ: Can you please post this link http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com over there. Also let them know to read the rules and guidelines before posting. I think the conversation in the above forum (@BR) is more simulating.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 18 Dec 2012 23:37

Acharya wrote:...This race is being caliberated and raced in the media more than reality


^^^ +72. They want to see a race so that they can make money. And our dhoti-shiverers will fall for it!!!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 18 Dec 2012 23:41

KrishG wrote:
disha wrote:looks like lot of construction activity going, is this the third launch pad?


AFAIK The third launchpad hasn't yet been approved. It was proposed for manned launches but it hasn't been approved in its full measure as is the case with the Human Spaceflight Program.


Ah a trick I learnt from some stalwarts in Indian babudom, first build something and when confident it will get completed in x amount of time with some y amount of money, go for approval (or get it approved then)., that way no careers will be burnt - all projects will be on time and in budget. And this facility is availed only when there is internal (or self funded) budget. ISRO has some money to do that, will not be the case for all government agencies again.

It is the third launch pad under construction. Do not get completely surprised if GSLV Mk3 (full form) takes off from launch pad 3 (where launch pad 3 would have been completed in "record time" :ROFL:)

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby hnair » 19 Dec 2012 00:25

disha-saar 8) nice posts, particularly the one on approvals :lol:

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 21 Dec 2012 08:22

SARAL satellite launch postponed to February - The Hindu
Glitches in SARAL, a satellite meant for studying the ocean currents and sea surface heights, has led to the postponement of its launch from December to the second week of February 2013 from the Sriharikota spaceport.

A core-alone version of the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) was to carry SARAL, an Indo-French joint venture, and five other satellites.

But problems that surfaced during the thermo-vacuum testing of SARAL at the ISRO Satellite Centre, Bangalore, have led to the postponement.

“We had technical problems in the satellite. Some problems were encountered during the thermo-vacuum testing… They have been solved,” said a top ISRO official. “The satellite has new payloads and new systems. When new payloads are used, technical issues will be there. We are resolving them,” said another ISRO engineer.

The 400-kg SARAL (Satellite for Argos-3 and Altika) has two payloads: Argos-3 for data collection and Altikameter for measuring the height of the sea surface. These payloads from French space agency CNES have been integrated into a satellite bus from India. The entire satellite is built in the ISRO Satellite Centre.

ISRO officials said the SARAL payloads would basically study the circulation of currents in the oceans and measure the sea surface heights, phenomena that played a complementary role in studying the state of the oceans and understanding them.

“They circulate heat and they play an important role in the development of weather in the short term and climate in the long term. If you want to understand the environment, the study of ocean surfaces and the variability of sea levels is important. They also impact on the coastal areas,” the officials said.

The five satellites to accompany SARAL are the 148-kg Sapphire and the 82-kg NEOSSAT, both from Canada; two nano-satellites for astrophysics, BRITE and UniBRITE, from Austria; and AAUSAT from Denmark.

AAUSAT, built by students of the Department of Electronic Systems at Aalborg University, will test some of the technologies developed by them.

Sapphire will look at other satellites and space debris, circling between 6,000 km and 40,000 km above the earth.

According to Canadian Space Agency, NEOSSAT (Near-Earth Object Surveillance Satellite) is “the world’s first space telescope dedicated to detecting and tracking asteroids and satellites.”

“It will circle the globe every 100 minutes, scanning the space near the Sun to pinpoint asteroids that may some day pass near our planet. NEOSSAT will also sweep the skies in search of satellites and… debris as part of Canada’s commitment to keeping orbital space safe for everyone,” it said.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby kit » 21 Dec 2012 12:33

If ISRO wants a better PR they can go a la NASA style :rotfl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Sar5WT76kE


you have to see this .. cool :mrgreen:



see the original gangnam style and compare.. hilarious !

a comparison video :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cguZ9Oj830
Last edited by kit on 21 Dec 2012 12:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby member_23694 » 21 Dec 2012 12:45

kit wrote:If ISRO wants a better PR they can go a la NASA style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Sar5WT76kE


you have to see this .. cool


Such kind of suggestions are strictly prohibited :twisted: , else u will be slammed for lack of awareness of the technology details on which ISRO is working and the kind of serious approach one must follow.
Suggestion of being cool and at the same time developing cutting edge tech is simply unacceptable :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby TSJones » 21 Dec 2012 13:28

Rumor has it that the vid was made by college interns at NASA.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Dec 2012 14:42

OT> THis is the Indian Space discussion. But what the heck.

Rumour has hit that Speilberg got involved with those college interns and NASA footed a bill of USD 15 million.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 25 Dec 2012 07:59

India, Russia ink military deals
India and Russia also agreed to take the first steps towards operating a “ranging station” that will help accurately fix the location of satellites.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby symontk » 25 Dec 2012 08:57

SSridhar wrote:India, Russia ink military deals
India and Russia also agreed to take the first steps towards operating a “ranging station” that will help accurately fix the location of satellites.


That was not needed, it will create unwanted attention from other powers. The question being what and whose satellities are being looked at. If I correctly remember Gorbechev requested Rajiv gandhi in 80's for such a station and also a launch station which India politely refused

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 25 Dec 2012 09:01

hnair wrote:disha-saar 8) nice posts, particularly the one on approvals :lol:


hnair-bhai, thank you.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 25 Dec 2012 09:14

Aditya_V wrote:
Rumour has hit that Speilberg got involved with those college interns and NASA footed a bill of USD 15 million.


It was mentioned that ISRO has marketing issues (that is true for Indians in general., it is actually a cultural thingy - passive aggressive). Anyway, thanks Aditya_V for pointing out the budget of the parody. ISRO can offer to send NASA micro-satellites for 14 million dollars and NASA Johnson space center can spend 1 Million for creating such parodies.

:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 25 Dec 2012 09:25

That was not needed, it will create unwanted attention from other powers. The question being what and whose satellities are being looked at. If I correctly remember Gorbechev requested Rajiv gandhi in 80's for such a station and also a launch station which India politely refused


A observation. One of the poster commented ISRO does not market properly and another is worried about unwanted attention. So I understand ISRO has to market in such a way that it receives only wanted attention?

India was a "baccha" 30 years back when Gorbachev "requested" a station incl. a launch station which India refused - rightfully so. Now the deal of a "ranging station" is more like a deal among equals where there is benefit for both. Further there is always a dual purpose for such a ranging station, it will definitely protect both Russian and Indian civilian launches, but it can also be used for non-civilian purposes. This puts the big red commie panda in its cage., I guess they played their cards too early - all for showing a baki like h&d to bring a defunct satellite down.

IMO, this is good development. The next step should be using this data to identify defunct satellites and come up with a way to de-orbit them. That itself will be a costly multi-billion dollar project and can be a money spinner. Like a space safai system that can be used to charge countries which pollute a community (world) resource with their inner bakistan.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby TSJones » 25 Dec 2012 22:08

If you're going to do satellite retrieval, you've got to launch the recovery vehicle in the same general direction (orbital inclination) as the old satellite, otherwise it is too much delta-v for the recovery vehicle to achieve. For instance, a lot of Russian launches are launched from Pletsek(sp?) a launch base 400 miles northwest of St. Petersburg. Most of those would be in a polar orbit. But Russia's launch base in Kazachstan would be entirely different as they launch north east over Siberia. I don't know what orbits China launches in, I don't keep up with their program. The US launches in practically any orbital inclination (they got launch bases basically for all orbital inclinations). So delta-v is a major factor for any retrieval plan.

Russia now also launches from ESA's French Guiana base.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Prem » 27 Dec 2012 03:05

http://www.space.com/19019-star-trails- ... photo.html
Spectacular Star Trails Arc Over Himalayan Peak

Pillars of what will become India's largest telescope tower before dazzling star trails in this image taken from the campus at Devasthal Optical Telescope on the Himalayan peaks of Uttarakhand, India.Veteran night sky photographer Ajay Talwar of the astrophotography group The World at Night took this photo in October 2012.The 3.6-meter segmented optical telescope will be the largest telescope in India when complete. It is expected to be operational by late 2013.The circumpolar star trails in the sky span the entire true night, between the end of evening astronomical twilight and the start of morning astronomical twilight, 9hr 41min. Dhruv Tara, the Pole Star in Hindi, has rotated around the celestial pole by 145 degrees,"" Talwar said.Long exposure times can create star trails in a night sky image. The exposure causes the stars to appear as if they are trailing in arcs similar to the path they trace in the night sky. The images show how the rotation of the Earth can influence the motion.


Image

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 14 Jan 2013 16:40

India gets its first space weather reading centre
Kolkatta: A centre of excellence specialising in reading space weather conditions to help air traffic on polar routes would come up here by the middle of this year, the first of its kind in the country.

"It will be a centre of excellence in space sciences. The centre's main thrust will be on areas of space weather especially weather in the solar system and gravitational physics," its coordinator, scientist Dibyendu Nandi told PTI here.

Besides air traffic on polar routes, the centre would help in the functioning of GPS networks and mobile satellites placed in space. {GAGAN should benefit from it}

Nandi said coronal mass ejections (CME) and solar flares were two kinds of storms originating from the sun which exposed flights to immense amounts of radiation over polar regions.

Several commercial flights from south Asia, Europe and north America flew over the polar regions to cut short time and distance.

Nandi said if the weather in the solar system was not good it would impact the functioning of satellites, which in turn would have an adverse effect on the GPS system and mobile networks.

The centre, approved by the Union HRD ministry, would come up at the Indian Institute of Science, Education and Research (IISER) campus. The ministry has sanctioned Rs four crore for it.

"If we have prior information about a storm originating in the solar system or space, or any other changes in space weather, we will inform the civil aviation department about it so that they inform different airlines about the hazards of flying in polar or high altitudes," Nandi said.

"We will also inform the telecommunication department about changes in space weather so that they can safeguard their satellites in space. If you are aware of a storm in space then you can at least take safeguards which will in turn increase the longevity of satellites," he said.

Nandi said the centre would offer its readings free initially to the civil aviation and telecommunication department and later commercially.

According to Nandi, one of the suspected reasons behind the Chandrayan mission falling short of its expected lifespan by one year was technical problems which arose from radiation from storms originating in space.

"It is suspected that very high radiation in space due to changes in space weather damaged Chandrayan and was one of the main reasons behind the mission ending in 2009," he said.

The centre would also work in field of gravitational physics in terms of analysing data, he added.

Nandi, also involved in India's first solar mission 'Aditya' slated to be launched in 2016, said the space weather reading center would help analyse the data for it.

The centre would also offer PhD programs to students interested in space sciences.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Bade » 14 Jan 2013 20:55

From above,
The centre, approved by the Union HRD ministry, would come up at the Indian Institute of Science, Education and Research (IISER) campus. The ministry has sanctioned Rs four crore for it.
This is an excellent thing to do to locate it at a university, especially the newer ones which will be attracting the best of young minds. We need more newer specialized institutes attached to universities.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Brando » 14 Jan 2013 21:12

^^ISRO has a university and then there is the Indian Institute of Astrophysics (one of the best Astrophysics programs in Asia), even IISc has an excellent Astrophysics and Space Sciences department. This is nothing new.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Bade » 14 Jan 2013 22:30

I am aware of IIST, tvm by ISRO. This is located at IISER in Kolkata. IISER is the new university system modeled on the IIT system for the sciences. My comment is newer research institutes should be attached to IISERs in the future. IISc and IIA you mentioned take at post MSc level, so the university students at UG level do not benefit from their existence. Having something at UG level places will have a bigger impact in nurturing talent, IMO.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 15 Jan 2013 10:13

"ISRO has a university and then there is the Indian Institute of Astrophysics (one of the best Astrophysics programs in Asia), even IISc has an excellent Astrophysics and Space Sciences department. This is nothing new."

India was the first country in Asia to set up modern optical and radio astronomy facilities. And it still possesses some of the finest telescopes in Asia. How many people in North America and Europe would think that India was the pioneer in Asia in modern telescopy? The vast majority, if asked, would first name Japan, then China, S.Korea or Singapore. Any country except India. The ignorance of India's achievements is mind boggling.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby svinayak » 15 Jan 2013 22:46

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"ISRO has a university and then there is the Indian Institute of Astrophysics (one of the best Astrophysics programs in Asia), even IISc has an excellent Astrophysics and Space Sciences department. This is nothing new."

India was the first country in Asia to set up modern optical and radio astronomy facilities. And it still possesses some of the finest telescopes in Asia. How many people in North America and Europe would think that India was the pioneer in Asia in modern telescopy? The vast majority, if asked, would first name Japan, then China, S.Korea or Singapore. Any country except India. The ignorance of India's achievements is mind boggling.

This is known as brainwashing and false image building.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby TSJones » 16 Jan 2013 04:28

Why not write an article for Astronomy magazine in the US? They show case facilities from around the world. Write a historical perspective of astronomy in India and then finish the article out about current facilities around India and their programs. Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.


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