PAK-FA Thread - First flight

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Rupesh » 30 Jan 2010 06:22

Cain Marko wrote:
Aditya G wrote:check out the insane range!



Any way, the IAF's need for 126 birds has been somewhat fulfilled with the outright purchase of 40+60 MKI.

So even though the MRCA is sort of superfluous for IAF needs (as the Tejas + Pakfa + MKI would do the trick), the deal will still be pursued for other non-technical reasons imho. It is daft, but that is the way it is!

CM.


When did we order the 60 birds ?
IIRC the SU orders are 40+140+50-2 =228 (with reports of IAF demanding an Additional 50, but that has not been ordered so far )

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby rpraveenkum » 30 Jan 2010 06:30

Image

Image

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby rpraveenkum » 30 Jan 2010 06:32

Image


Image

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby rpraveenkum » 30 Jan 2010 06:33

Image

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby rpraveenkum » 30 Jan 2010 06:34

Stealth alignments of PAK-FA and F-22 (credit: Planeman)


Image

Image

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Rupesh » 30 Jan 2010 06:40

rpraveenkum

Nice Pics

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 30 Jan 2010 06:44

Hello All -- First let me say this is a very impressive looking airplane. I just hope it arrives 'in time'.

Second, just a humble guess offered to solicit informed opinion: Could these be internal AAM bays mounted in the wings?

Image

Perhaps this is just a fairing to hide something they don't want to put infront of the cameras yet?
I would greatly appreciate the gathered wisdom of the assembled gurus on this one.

Thanks!

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Anoop. A. » 30 Jan 2010 06:52

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:Hello All -- First let me say this is a very impressive looking airplane. I just hope it arrives 'in time'.

Second, just a humble guess offered to solicit informed opinion: Could these be internal AAM bays mounted in the wings?

Image



I'm guessing it is an Electronic warfare suite like the added hump on the sides of UAE F-16 (Block 60).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-16e_block60.jpg
Last edited by Anoop. A. on 30 Jan 2010 06:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby nachiket » 30 Jan 2010 06:53

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:Hello All -- First let me say this is a very impressive looking airplane. I just hope it arrives 'in time'.

Second, just a humble guess offered to solicit informed opinion: Could these be internal AAM bays mounted in the wings?



Perhaps this is just a fairing to hide something they don't want to put infront of the cameras yet?
I would greatly appreciate the gathered wisdom of the assembled gurus on this one.

Thanks!

Ravi check Bill Sweetman's blog posted before on this thread.

He talks about that and mentions that they could be outboard weapons bays which are small because they might carry the new version of the R73 which has folding wing surfaces.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Suppiah » 30 Jan 2010 06:54

Great news...congrats to all involved...great pics in this thread thanks to Yuri and others..

The strategic significance is also as important - most news reports mentioned that it is jointly developed with India - increasing Indian brand equity by several notches. Significant is that India is a trusted partner of both US and Russia in long term because it does not steal technology and release fakes.

My only gripe,why bring the name of fanatic barbarian terrorists into the plane name, unless FA stands for something else :lol:

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Anoop. A. » 30 Jan 2010 06:58

Suppiah wrote:My only gripe,why bring the name of fanatic barbarian terrorists into the plane name, unless FA stands for something else :lol:


Suppiah,
I had a very similar view :wink:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3633&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1120

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 30 Jan 2010 07:08

Yeah, we need to get the Russians to adopt a new acronym..... what about "F-U PAK"? :rotfl:

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2010 07:08

parshuram wrote:gear was down all the time during flight ... could not wait to see pakistani rxn when this bird will be inducted in IAF ... long wait still


Actually - at 57 seconds - the gear appears to be up. Having said that I am certain that there is (in typically Russki style) more than one "first flight" video here documenting more than one flight as "first flight".

IIRC the first video posted on the thread showed the brake chutes being jettisoned while the plane was stationary. In a later video of "first flight" the chutes were jettisoned while the plane was moving

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby sumshyam » 30 Jan 2010 07:19

Can we have access to videos of complete 40/45 minutes of flight....that would be much more informative and kinda satisfying...!

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby nachiket » 30 Jan 2010 07:21

shiv wrote:
Actually - at 57 seconds - the gear appears to be up. Having said that I am certain that there is (in typically Russki style) more than one "first flight" video here documenting more than one flight as "first flight".

IIRC the first video posted on the thread showed the brake chutes being jettisoned while the plane was stationary. In a later video of "first flight" the chutes were jettisoned while the plane was moving


Shiv there is only one "flight" video. The first video was of the ground run which had happened earlier with only the front wheel being lifted in the air.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Craig Alpert » 30 Jan 2010 08:13

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:Yeah, we need to get the Russians to adopt a new acronym..... what about "F-U PAK"? :rotfl:

BRFITES need to think big! Pak is addressed by Rambha!!!! The FGFA is for Chin and the likes...

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby andy B » 30 Jan 2010 08:16

Wowie the day of reckoning....its alive :twisted:

Heartiest congratulations to all those involved its a tremendous achievement nothing less! cannot wait now for the day ze FGFA "touches the sky with glory" :twisted: jingo dil mange more...

A quick question injun-eers ze engines are the 117s, is that why they still share that steel tubular structures on the top and bottom that have been seen of ze Flankers IIRC ze F15s have them as well...I am guessing the new injuns when in place will be without these?

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Rahul M » 30 Jan 2010 08:21

this is probably how the insides of the intake works. (please magnify to get a better look)

Image
blue arrow -- air flow direction.
ENGN in red -- about where the engine will be.

the engines are also positioned upwards compared to the intake, giving that booty up look ( :P )
all in all, a high degree of concealment for engine face and therefore high frontal stealth ?

added later : hmm, bill sweetman says the same thing.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest
But it has a chined forebody, edge alignment and (probably) inlet line-of-sight blockage and internal weapons.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2010 08:59

As per Bill Sweetman - it appears that the attitude of the Russian military-industrial complex to new developments differs significantly from what appears to be the case in India. In India (at least for Air Force and army) we are looking for fully proven and combat ready items.OTIOH look at what Sweetman says:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest
Russian practice historically has been to start development with a series of prototypes that successively conform more to the production design. That's followed by an early series of aircraft that are "pre-operational" - flown by service units.


The forces accept "pre -operational" aircraft and I need to check out translations of Russian websites to see if senior Ru AF officers are calling those pre-operational "Khadi gramodyog."

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2010 09:00

nachiket wrote:
shiv wrote:
Actually - at 57 seconds - the gear appears to be up. Having said that I am certain that there is (in typically Russki style) more than one "first flight" video here documenting more than one flight as "first flight".

IIRC the first video posted on the thread showed the brake chutes being jettisoned while the plane was stationary. In a later video of "first flight" the chutes were jettisoned while the plane was moving


Shiv there is only one "flight" video. The first video was of the ground run which had happened earlier with only the front wheel being lifted in the air.



Ah that explains the discrepancy.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby pgbhat » 30 Jan 2010 09:01

Shiv wrote:In India (at least for Air Force and army) we are looking for fully proven and combat ready items.

That stems from the fact that we are used to buying stuff of the shelf.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2010 09:06

pgbhat wrote:
Shiv wrote:In India (at least for Air Force and army) we are looking for fully proven and combat ready items.

That stems from the fact that we are used to buying stuff of the shelf.


True and we have always been buying in response to some development - so we have needed stuff that (we think) works. This may have created a mentality of not being able to tolerate anything that does not come with a brochure full of specs. But the latter is what is required for a great power to develop its military industrial complex. Money needs to be spent a peacetime and not in response to some local events. So there is a political factor as well.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Aditya G » 30 Jan 2010 10:42

Note the IFR probe which will be hidden:
http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.a ... 6&stpid=65

Internal gun ... same location as Flanker:
http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.a ... 3&stpid=65

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby putnanja » 30 Jan 2010 11:44

shiv wrote:
nachiket wrote:Shiv there is only one "flight" video. The first video was of the ground run which had happened earlier with only the front wheel being lifted in the air.



Ah that explains the discrepancy.


Check out the youtube video link by Kartik. That has take-off, in-flight & landing shots. Very beautiful video!

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby SivaVijay » 30 Jan 2010 12:07

One naive question to the gurus.... If the WVRC missiles are housed in a internal bay, won't that affect the time taken for weapon release coz the bay has to open and then fire instead of a release from a under wing pylon?

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2010 12:25

SivaVijay wrote:One naive question to the gurus.... If the WVRC missiles are housed in a internal bay, won't that affect the time taken for weapon release coz the bay has to open and then fire instead of a release from a under wing pylon?


No it is under few seconds , pretty quick the longer the bay remains open the larger will be its RF spikes so its really quick.

The problem with internal bay is one cannot make use of the missile IR/IIR head to cue the target via HMD , but then i think if the aircraft has IRST then they can make use of IRST.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Shameek » 30 Jan 2010 12:33

SivaVijay wrote:One naive question to the gurus.... If the WVRC missiles are housed in a internal bay, won't that affect the time taken for weapon release coz the bay has to open and then fire instead of a release from a under wing pylon?


The bay will already need to be open in order for the missile seeker to lock on to the target. So at that phase, it will be just like any standard aircraft launching a missile.

For an idea, check out this video of the F-22 launching a sidewinder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM5pCgy2jiY

Also from the following link for the F 22http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-weapons.htm:

As the AIM-9 uses infrared guidance, the missile first has to acquire the target. To launch a Sidewinder from the F-22, the side weapons bay doors open; the Trapeze Launcher, with missile attached, extends to put the missile's seeker into the slipstream; the seeker acquires the target; the missile ignites and flies off the rail. The Trapeze Launcher then retracts, and the weapons bay doors close. Once launched, the F-22 pilot can leave the fight, as Sidewinder is autonomous, following its seeker to the target, after it leaves the launch rail. The entire Sidewinder launch sequence, from door opening to door closing, takes just seconds.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2010 13:18

Does the pilot of F-22 get enough time to cue his missile seeker with his HMD when the target is hard manouvering in close combat and all in seconds ?

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby sumshyam » 30 Jan 2010 13:26

Posting for reference :: T-50: A Preliminary Analysis

First of all, for anyone contemplating the use of the word "Raptorski": don't. While this is an airplane that could have been the answer to the Advanced Tactical Fighter requirement, way back when, it's not an F-22 in many important ways.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby andy B » 30 Jan 2010 13:45

Austin wrote:Does the pilot of F-22 get enough time to cue his missile seeker with his HMD when the target is hard manouvering in close combat and all in seconds ?


Austin saar would this change if the evil SDREs decide to integrate something like python 5 or the next gen r73(4)s and then launch em in LOAL mode instead of LOBL mode?

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby nrshah » 30 Jan 2010 13:52

Kartik wrote:full-flight test video. I cannot stop remarking on just how beautiful this bird is..I'm so deeply in love.. :D

link to youtube video



Guys there are two version, one is High resolution....

Just click 480P instead of 360p

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Sumeet » 30 Jan 2010 14:02

Times like this makes one wish if JC, GJ, Arun S & B Harry and other old BRFites were still around to share this joyous moment with us.

did anyone noticed that until now no major Indian newspaper has announced this test or is covering this in detail. Times Now has a small video clip on this. Others are totally unaware of the significance of this event.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby sum » 30 Jan 2010 14:09

* The new jet can also carry two long-range missiles developed by the Novator Bureau which can hit targets within a 400 kilometer range.

Is he talking about the KS-172?

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Sumeet » 30 Jan 2010 14:38

sum,

these are missiles under development for PAK-FA. I don't know if KS-172 project will still carry any value if all of below is true.

http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2009/10/ ... ak-fa.html

WLRAAM 'Izdelie 810' is MiG-31 R-33 derivative. 400 km.
LRAAM 'Izdelie-180PD' is air-breath R-77 derivative. 250 km.
'Izdelie-180' – solid-fuel R-77 derivative 110-140 km. With active and passive radar, homing on jammer.
Short range AAM – 'Izdelie-300' or K-MD IR matrix, double range of homing.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Willy » 30 Jan 2010 14:59

Sumeet wrote:Times like this makes one wish if JC, GJ, Arun S & B Harry and other old BRFites were still around to share this joyous moment with us.

did anyone noticed that until now no major Indian newspaper has announced this test or is covering this in detail. Times Now has a small video clip on this. Others are totally unaware of the significance of this event.


TOI has a decent size article. On the inside pages though.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Ajay K » 30 Jan 2010 15:44

The PAK-FA is more like a MKI with internal weapons bay, all sharp corners to make it stealth. Sukhoi company can now earn hard money selling this beauty rather than SU-30s.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2010 15:55

andy B wrote:
Austin wrote:Does the pilot of F-22 get enough time to cue his missile seeker with his HMD when the target is hard manouvering in close combat and all in seconds ?


Austin saar would this change if the evil SDREs decide to integrate something like python 5 or the next gen r73(4)s and then launch em in LOAL mode instead of LOBL mode?


Andy B saar is LOAL mode useful in WVR combat ? Just want to know since my idea is not quite clear , one would still need some kind of primary sensor to cue the missile , until the seeker takes over ?

Assuming you would not like to use your RF source , then it would be either your IRST or the sensor of the missile itself , if you do not have a IRST then one is greatly restricted ( and even if you do ) since the sensor of the missile no matter how capable these are cannot be used as they are carried inside the aircraft and when doing a hard manouvering , probably the aircraft which carries the missile externally (MKI/Typhoon etc ) has a better tactical advantage in WVR combat ?

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Samay » 30 Jan 2010 15:58

There is still lot of work to do , 20-30% work on external surface's is still incomplete, then the internal additions will follow, we wont be getting it before 2015
There are three direct effects of this test flight
1.f35 will no longer cast an american shadow on mmrca competition and
2.Demand of f35 ,f15 eagle will increase worldwide and..
3.Along with Russia and India ,Japan may be interested in buying those birds..
Last edited by Samay on 30 Jan 2010 16:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2010 15:58

Sumeet wrote:Times like this makes one wish if JC, GJ, Arun S & B Harry and other old BRFites were still around to share this joyous moment with us.


Indeed we are missing all of them so badly , Where is N^3 ?

Kartik can you give some of your basic analysis on aerodynamic characteristics of this aircraft ( plus/minus ), that is probably the only thing which wont change even on production system would love to hear from gurus

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Re: PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Postby Samay » 30 Jan 2010 16:04

Austin wrote:
Sumeet wrote:Times like this makes one wish if JC, GJ, Arun S & B Harry and other old BRFites were still around to share this joyous moment with us.


sorry to ask but What happened to Arun S, JC ?


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