PAK-FA Thread - First flight

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 29 Jan 2010 20:31

Is there a high res picture of the top view ?

Thanks

and its beautiful and the nitpickers should take a week off

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jan 2010 20:35

sumshyam wrote:
Singha wrote: Estimated Performance:

Runway (m): 350 (w/o OVT)
G-force (g): 10-11
To me ...It looks like...It can be modified to meet the Carrier requirements.....!

And about G forces....I had feeling that human limit is 9-G....anyhow....I perhaps am an illiterate in biological terms...open for words of wisdom from gurus.

that limit is for sustained g-forces without inducing G-LOC. of course sustained doesn't not mean unlimited, it's a few tens of seconds at most. depending on type and direction of the g-force, a trained pilot in a g-suit can survive higher g-forces for small amounts of time. the rafale for example can pull 11 g's in an emergency, it's normal limit is 9 g's.

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Jan 2010 20:39

9G is an average figure there have been instances of Ru cosmonauts withstanding a lot higher than that number during re entry mishaps.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 29 Jan 2010 20:48

Gagan wrote: Wing design !
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1812/60867473.jpg

That's just utterly beautiful. Can't wait for high res pics of this view.

PS: Thanks Yuri for your updates.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2010 20:55

the redoubtable Mr Kopp must be burning the midnight oil on this next article...no points for guessing the subject and THE UBER SOLUTION -> more F22's for Australia

http://ausairpower.net/

bhavani · Post by **bhavani** » 29 Jan 2010 21:06

That is a brilliant looking fighter. I am glad that the russians dont forget the real purpose of war machines. The STOL capability and big wheels remind me of a real war machines. Not of something which requires air-conditioned hangars.

This is going to be one great looking plane.

When is the expected service dates may be 2015?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jan 2010 21:08

Singha wrote:the redoubtable Mr Kopp must be burning the midnight oil on this next article...no points for guessing the subject and THE UBER SOLUTION -> more F22's for Australia

http://ausairpower.net/

Can the US restart the F-22 production lines or is it closed for good ?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 29 Jan 2010 21:10

Austin wrote: Can the US restart the F-22 production lines or is it closed for good ?

AFAIK the lines are not closed. It was just decided not to order any more aircraft in addition to one's already ordered. As per revised procurement numbers, the contract date for the final lot is mentioned as 2010 which would put delivery around 2012.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... uction.htm

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2010 21:12

awesome news.. is the internal bay small compared to raptor/jsf?

bhavani · Post by **bhavani** » 29 Jan 2010 21:16

No the internal weapons bay looks much bigger than the one on JSF and F-22. JSF has a puny internal bay

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 29 Jan 2010 21:25

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2010 21:26

doesn't wing design looks very similar to NGFA (new MCA) wind tunnel model?

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/02/ph ... ombat.html

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jan 2010 21:36

Austin wrote:
Singha wrote:the redoubtable Mr Kopp must be burning the midnight oil on this next article...no points for guessing the subject and THE UBER SOLUTION -> more F22's for Australia

http://ausairpower.net/
Can the US restart the F-22 production lines or is it closed for good ?

I think they ordered half a dozen just to keep the lines open.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jan 2010 21:39

SaiK wrote:doesn't wing design looks very similar to NGFA (new MCA) wind tunnel model?

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/02/ph ... ombat.html

no, it looks quite different.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 29 Jan 2010 21:47

SaiK wrote:doesn't wing design looks very similar to NGFA (new MCA) wind tunnel model?

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/02/ph ... ombat.html

The NGFA wing design is optimized for speeds around 1.8 Mach while the PAK-FA would probably have a max speed of around >2 Mach.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jan 2010 21:56

Were any Indian babus/MoD folks/IAF guys present at the trial?

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 29 Jan 2010 22:39

Wow, what a beauty! Russia confounds her critics once again. My heartiest congratulations to all involved!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jan 2010 22:50

sum wrote:Were any Indian babus/MoD folks/IAF guys present at the trial?

They have not yet signed the contract for FGFA still negotiating with Russkis although they have in principle agreement to join the project

So no chance of babu , IAF folks being present i think.

Thanks for the clarification on F-22 guys , i think unless they can reduce the unit cost of each aircraft the chance of F-22 production line starting is slim , specially when they have committed to F-35

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 29 Jan 2010 23:00

Gagan wrote:Yuri,
Thanks again for the pics.

That can't be very stealthy!

Gorgeous bird....

There is another such bump on the right side of its neck. One can observe its prominence when the pilot is climbing down.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 29 Jan 2010 23:01

wow...!

Russia to start receiving fifth-generation fighters in 2013

The first batch of Russian fifth-generation fighters will go into service in 2013, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Friday.

A prototype of the future fighter made a succesful 47-minute maiden flight on Friday in Russia's Far East.

"The first Russian fifth-generation fighters will be put into service with the Air Force in 2013, and regular deliveries will start in 2015," Putin said.

He added that the development of the aircraft was still underway and the flight tests would continue.

"A lot still has to be done [to make the fighter operational]...both in terms of the engines and weaponry," Putin said.

Russia has been developing its newest fighter since the 1990s. The current prototype, dubbed T-50, was designed by the Sukhoi design bureau and built at a plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

Russian officials have already hailed the fighter as "a unique combat plane" which combines the capabilities of a heavy air superiority fighter and a strike aircraft.

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 29 Jan 2010 23:02

gear was down all the time during flight ... could not wait to see pakistani rxn when this bird will be inducted in IAF ... long wait still

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jan 2010 23:05

Thanks for the clarification on F-22 guys , i think unless they can reduce the unit cost of each aircraft the chance of F-22 production line starting is slim

the lines are open as of now so no question of starting. as aftermath of this unveiling, I think that out of purely emotional reasons (viz. the russians are coming ! the russians are coming !) USAF will get clearance for another sqdn, if not two.

gear was down all the time during flight

nope gear was withdrawn. check the complete video posted above.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 29 Jan 2010 23:05

parshuram wrote:could not wait to see pakistani rxn when this bird will be inducted in IAF ... long wait still

Let us first announce participation in PAK - FA formally.

Devesh Rawal · Post by **Devesh Rawal** » 29 Jan 2010 23:08

Wow. I love it!

To me, its really interesting to compare the shape and size with the chase plane (looks like a Su-35?)

Here's what I'm talking about (sorry about the quality):

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 29 Jan 2010 23:15

tejas wrote:Congrats to Sukhoi OKB!! God I love this top view

Magnifico +1! You is right, this is stunning. Humungous lerxes probly ensure wingloading won't be an issue as much of the lift will be generated by the LERX. What was it with the MiG-29? Some 40% lift came from the body thanks to the LERX, and these are even bigger. Superb blending of a variety of modern designs!

Small tailfins (unlike F-22) ensure lower RCS, big assed TVC takes care of this. Nice touch. Overall, this is going to be a problem for any enemy fighter in the sky.

And no, I doubt China will get a hand on this, not unless the russkis want a bunch of copies floating around and not if they don't want their eastern, resource rich provinces in chinese hands!

Added l8r: I feel certain that the canopy will become single piece later, this is still too early. One more thing, the one similarity to the LCA is the use of LEVCONS.

CM

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Jan 2010 23:15

At 2:00 minutes in video one can see a hemishpehere aft of the canopy (btw if you guys noticed it is a sliding canopy) must be a passive sensor/CCD of some sort. The tail boom is painted with a similar primer like the radome on the nose one can house a nice rear looking IIR/Radar there.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 29 Jan 2010 23:17

Devesh Rawal wrote: To me, its really interesting to compare the shape and size with the chase plane (looks like a Su-35?)

Chase plane looks like a Su-30 K/MK. Quite defines the difference in shape and size.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2010 23:24

well, regarding china getting their hands on this puppy, cm saab one can never say!.
--/damn I can't stream from work.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Jan 2010 23:25

The tail boom.............

Nearly as big as the nose?

IF the nose hosts a 1500+ element AESA, perhaps a 900 element one at the back?

damn I can't stream from work

There are vacation days --- to relax.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 29 Jan 2010 23:30

Any expert/official words on capability/design/specifications etc....?

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 29 Jan 2010 23:30

few more pix

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 29 Jan 2010 23:33

Venkarl wrote: There is another such bump on the right side of its neck. One can observe its prominence when the pilot is climbing down.

Somethings there on the top side behind the cockpit. An OLS for top and back hemisphere??
Anyways the design is stunning with the bends and curves. A true Madhu-balarina.

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 29 Jan 2010 23:36

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 29 Jan 2010 23:37

NRao wrote:
Nearly as big as the nose?

IF the nose hosts a 1500+ element AESA, perhaps a 900 element one at the back?

thought i saw a brake like device there in one the images. loads of gizmos on this baby

cm

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 29 Jan 2010 23:39

The section between the nozzles at the back looks huge and I thought the Su-35 had a big one. Rear-facing radar for sure? Will be nice learning its details and causing some brown-pants syndrome elsewhere. Beautiful bird!

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 29 Jan 2010 23:41

pragmatic about cost and maintainence issues too

How do you really know what the actual cost of maintaining this aircraft will be? I mean the prototype just had its first flight. As others have repeated on this thread, the design will evolve and new problems will be encountered as more testing with pre-production examples are done.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 29 Jan 2010 23:43

Aft section

su-30mki

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... 007_lg.jpg

su-35

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... 008_lg.jpg

pak-fa

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1812/60867473.jpg

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2010 23:49

how different would be a tandem canopy will look like?

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 29 Jan 2010 23:53

When are we going to get on into this project????????????????????

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 29 Jan 2010 23:57

KrishG wrote: The conclusion seems very much true. The wing design seems interesting. The Russians always seem to prefer high-wing loading a/c.

Ahem, you meant low-wing loading a/c I presume..the PAK-FA has a huge wing surface area and massive LERXes that would endow superb maneuverability thanks to low wing loading. God, this fighter is simply amazing as far as design goes. A very pragmatic design to keep the RCS low, but not obsessive RCS reduction at the expense of affordability and other design features, such as large weapons bays that will make it far more multi-role than the F-22 which is pretty much restricted to one role. And yet, its not design-compromised thanks to having to fulfill 3 different types of fighter roles like the F-35, which ended up really being hampered by having to fill-in for so many different types of aircraft. Just looking at the PAK-FA, you can tell this bird will be unbelievably agile..the first flight and the way it took off..ooff ! Just like a MiG-29 does..it currently has a T/W of 1 or so with AB I suppose and its eventual engine should keep it at that. in Air Dominance roles, this bird will be unchallenged by anything except a F-22. clean shape, low drag, super maneuverability with TVC, very very low RCS, large internal weapons carriage capability, large internal fuel so no drop tanks required, AESA radar with what appears to be conformal arrays planned as well, IRST for passive hunting, sensor fusion with large cockpit displays and what appears to be superb build quality and next generation internal EW suite for sure..if its truly available at $100 million per copy, its a steal, because its truly a generation ahead of the Euro-canards.

Now I really wonder whether its worth spending $100-140 million on something like a Typhoon or Rafale when the PAK-FA will clearly smoke them in combat. There is nothing in the PAF's or PLAAF's arsenal that will match this, not until the next J-XX comes along. With 250 of these in the IAF, Air Dominance is assured !

Oh God, I'm in heaven..my heartiest congratulations to the Sukhoi OKB and to those individuals in the IAF, MoD and GoI who chose to partner Russia in this program..I've truly never felt happier about any partnership with Russia than how I feel now.