rohitvats wrote:First - You don't get to tell other poster(s) what they should do or not. So keep your advise to yourself.
Pretty rich coming from your mouth, threads after threads of dishing out gratuitous advice unasked for yet the galls to ask others to refrain from doing the same especially in a public forum where passing out unasked advices is part of debate. The irony gods will have a tough night tonight sleeping.
rohitvats wrote:Second - IAF being on-board has nothing to do with scientific challenges associated with such an ambitious program. Or, certain inherent bureaucratic issues.
You don't say Mr. Bane !!!
rohitvats wrote: Let's take a small example - Has the engine been chosen for the a/c? I guess not. HAL will issue an RFP to vendors in 2015 as per Saurav Jha. How long due you think it will take for usual rigmarole of OEM selection, contract negotiation and final closure? Again, Mr. Tamilmani says, they will firm the choice in 8 months post release of RFP (April 15). Pretty neat timeline, no?
Instead of trying to play smartypants if you had cared to read my post then you would have known why date's are given out from time to time but strategic upper hand strikes again. For your ease,
Sagar G wrote:No need to hyperventilate about some dates given, they are required to generate dates for presentation purpose and they do that assuming ideal conditions and mk.2 development has got nothing to do with AMCA. Different teams are working on the projects and if IAF is really "steering the program" (keep your bucket of salt handy) as some reports claim then a PV can definitely fly by 2021.
What do you think happens during umpteen chai biscuit sessions hainji ??? The scientists are required to present a programme map containing milestones which they are targeting around certain "dates" till the finish of the programme on the expected "date". So as you can see their is no escaping from the "dates", whether you or IAF like it or not matters zilch. Preparing a roadmap of the programme is a SOP before any programme is taken up.
If you remember during the engine selection for Mk.2 even before the L1 was selected they had done studies with both the contenders and were ready to go ahead no matter who won so it will be only logical to assume that they have done the same in case of AMCA and because they have to follow procedures they are issuing the tender.
What makes you think that engine is the only necessary component in an aircraft and the rest doesn't matter ??? Without selecting an engine from the market you think that the rest of the technologies that will go into it isn't being researched into ???
rohitvats wrote:From 2016-2020 or 2021, that is in 4-5 years flat, the first prototype of a completely new a/c which is supposed to incorporate 5th generation technologies -some of which we are yet to develop-will take to skies? Compared to this, LCA Mk-2, which is supposed to be an iterative development, will also take 4-5 years to take to skies from date of inception (2014-2018 or 2019) of program?
First regarding the "iterative development" partThe Radiance of Tejas: A bright prospect for 'Make in India'
The Mk-II will have some 25-30 percent commonality in parts with the MK-I and these parts (i.e not requiring any modification) are already in production. For the MK-I parts that have to be modified, thousands of new drawings are being worked upon jointly by DRDO-HAL and the private sector. According to Dr Tamil Mani 'The final Mk-II drawings will be completed by December 2015.'
So 70% to 75% new parts for which production drawings need to be generated. Given the meh attitude that you are showing for the "iterative development" I don't think you have any knowledge about designing or what a pain in the arse generating production standard drawings is. Also you have glossed over the fact that Mk.2 will be targeted from first airframe for production standard and hence committed a blunder by equating it's timeline to a prototype of AMCA which will undergo thousands of changes before it hits production in 2030. Since when has it become necessary for prototypes of under development programs to be upto final configuration from day 1 ??? The initial prototypes will be used to study the airframe and progressively over the decade 5th gen technologies will be added to it. A simple question, was the LCA TD meant to be == SP Mk.1 ???
Now coming to 5th gen technologies, do you want a running commentary from ADA regarding the technologies they are developing for their 5th gen aircraft ??? If you were mindful enough then enough data is in public regarding the technologies that are currently being developed. Posting excerpts, concentrate on the "dates"India's Medium Combat Aircraft Friday, January 08, 2010
The Stealth In India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) Saturday, June 26, 2010
While configuration fructifies, the following work has begun on the MCA in full earnest: DARE, Bangalore has appointed a special team to begin identifying avionics and cockpit packages for the first prototype vehicle, and will supply this in published form to the ADA by July 2010. This will include cockpit electronics, cockpit configuration, man-machine interface, mission console systems and computers/software with a focus on data fusion and modular architecture. The LRDE will, in about the same time frame, provide a separate project proposal for an all new radar, to be re-designated for the MCA, as a derivative of the MMR currently being completed with technology from Israel's ELTA. LRDE will independently look in the market for a partner for active array technology, though it communicated to ADA in June 2009 that it had sufficient R&D available to build a reliable AESA prototype with assistance from Bharat Electronics Ltd and two private firms based in Hyderabad.
There is a collossal amount of work going on as far as materials is concerned for the MCA/NGFA. With the IAF unmoving in its demand for an aircraft that has stealth characteristics built into it from the drawing board forward, the DRDO has powered teams within its materials laboratories in Pune and Hyderabad to come up with new composities, low observable materials fabrication techniques, and of course, radar-absorbent control surface aggregates, airframe materials and paints. This is, of course, completely separate from design characteristics, including internal weapons, fresh leading edge innovations and a sustainable stealth maintenance footprint.
EXCLUSIVE: Official Wishlist of Evolutionary Technologies for India's 5thGen AMCA Tuesday, November 16, 2010
As part of the multidisciplinary design optimization (MDO) currently on for the AMCA -- a wind tunnel model of which was first publicly displayed at AeroIndia 2009 -- that design-based stealth features will include further optimized airframe shaping, edge matching, body conforming antennae and a low IR signature through nozzle design, engine bay cooling and work on reduced exhaust temperature. RAMs, RAPs, special coatings for polycarbonate canopy and precision manufacturing will all be part of the effort to make the AMCA India's first stealth airplane.
Stealth Air-intake Fabrication For AMCACVRDE to develop gearboxes for advanced medium combat aircraft CHENNAI, December 9, 2010Airframe
The AMCA team has already asked private industry in the country to explore the feasibility of creating primary panoramic displays and other avionics displays that would befit a fifth generation cockpit environment. But the cockpit is just one of an ambitious official technology wishlist for the AMCA.
Multiple models are all over the net and as pointed before were displayed in 2009 AI as well so it is only rational to think they have been working on it for quite some time before they displayed such "model". Also a few pages earlier in this very threadhttp://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5739&start=1800#p1732413Stealth Skin
To add some info
to what has been posted above by Ankar (P.B.U.H.)
Fly by Light
Conference (Work done at IISc)
A Novel Embedded Passives Resistor Spacecloth for Radar Absorbing Materials
Chandrika Sudhendra, Atanu Mohanty and A. C. R. Pillai
in International Radar Symposium India 2007 (IRSI-07), 10-13 December, 2007, Bangalore, India, pp. 117-119.
A Novel Chip Resistor Spacecloth for Radar Absorbing Materials
Chandrika Sudhendra, A. Mohanty and K. A. Jacob
in IEEE International Symposium on Microwaves 2006 (ISM-06), 15-17 December, 2006, Bangalore, India, pp. 185-192.
(Don't forget to look at the "date")Manoharan, LC (1985) Development of a fiberoptic data bus for fly-by-light application on aircraft. Technical Report. National Aeronautical Laboratory, Bangalore, India.Manoharan, LC and Muthuvel, S (1987) An intelligent fiberoptic data bus for fly-by-light applications. Technical Report. National Aeronautical Laboratory, Bangalore, India.
But we must assume that no work has been done till date so that we can rant from time to time no ??Sensor Fusion
Being developed for LCA Mk.2 hence logical that this will feed directly into the AMCA programme hence it becomes "iterative development" rather than being done for the first time.EW Suite
Again the same is going to be in Mk.2 and hence would be "iterative development" rather than being high risk first time sort of thing.IRSTAirborne Infrared Search and Track Systems DEF SCI J, VOL. 57, NO. 5, SEPTEMBER 2007
Some of the Indian aircraft have integrated
IRST systems of the first generation. These operate
in not so wide FOV (compared to the present
generation IRSTs) and searchitrack single targets.
Instruments Research and Development
Establishment (IRDE), Dehra Dun, has launched
a programme to indigenously develop IRST system
for deployment on Indian aircraft. This system is
intended to give detection ranges up to 160 km
under various operating conditions. The system
will have the capability of track while scan feature
and will be able to track multiple targets simultancously.
So you want me to overlook all these indications that we are going into this program prepared and confident and instead add voice of support to your misplaced, unwarranted rant ??? Tough luck Mr. Bane, tough luck !!!
rohitvats wrote:BTW - the same gentleman gave this statement in the beginning of this year:
Between you need to update yourself instead of googling for support to your rant, from this very forum (again please don't forget to look at the "date" of the post)http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3757&p=1624159&hilit=Chat+with+Shri+Tamilmani+of+CEMILAC#p1624159
We are in the initial stages of project definition of AMCA. Any program of this nature requires 10 years.
We are going to see the AMCA around 2020.
Concept study on AMCA is nearing completion. The project definition phase will be started shortly.
[use of kaveri in AMCa]may not be possible. Use of kaveri for AMCA as the thrust requiremnts are different. But kaveri has potential for other programs in India
AMCA being the higher weight category will have more weapon load carrying than Tejas. Details will be worked out along with the user.
We are in the process of identifying the suitable engine
Since April timeline hasn't changed and hopefully won't much either so I still optimistically expect a prototype of AMCA to take to air in the 2020-21 timeframe given all goes well in between.
rohitvats wrote:We all know where we stand on the LCA production timeline for first 20 a/c.
We all know what a bloody nose China gave us in 1962 but we still love our Armed forces and trust them to protect us.
No need to intermix the timeline of two different programs to support your rant, we had almost nothing when we went for LCA but we have a lot when we will go for AMCA hence Captain Optimism can fly high.
rohitvats wrote:So, pardon me if I 'hyperventilate' when I find esteemed scientists suffering from 'foot-in-mouth' disease and I take any timeline promise by them with 'bucket load of salt'!
Given you ignorance about AMCA about the things which are already being done to achieve success for the same I pardon you for "hyperventilating" and pray that the "bucket load of salt" that you will take each time "dates" are given is iodised.