Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Kanson
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 20 Mar 2013 21:30

^ that range is attributed only to Nuclear Tomahawk. What about block 4?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 20 Mar 2013 21:35

rajanb wrote:
jamwal wrote:290 + 2 Km
What happened ?
:mrgreen:


Tailwinds from our -2 fliends. Messrs. Porki & Cheen :D -2=+2 A result of copy-cat and djinn technology


NO

Our neighbours gave a very large FART and the missile went another 2 kms more

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 20 Mar 2013 21:49

A Sharma wrote:From the pics of K-15/B-05 in Jan you could see a part of underwater pontoon ( like 2 ends of a ship). How come you don't see that in case of today's brahmos test? Different pontoon may be?


Those are not parts of the underwater pontoon as it was totally submerged and the current test has been performed by an underwater "platform" as can be seen in the official statement put up by Livefist so most probably the "platform" is a sub.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 20 Mar 2013 21:55

Platform or Pontoon, this is indeed a great step forward... a welcome development on the cruise missile front which has had a slight crimp after the Nirbhay test last week. Full range of 292 KM is interesting.... it should be less than the land launched one as it has to tear thru the water and expend more energy but in showing a teeny-weeny longer range we are trying to send out a message!!!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 20 Mar 2013 21:57

One Newbie pooch, the supersonic cruise missile developed by the Bear was only a incline launched ship launched missile, when we improved it and created a sub-launched version, why not call it a new missile and shake of MTCR limitations? why still retain the same name and get constrained (in paper) to the < 300KM and < 500KG warhead limits?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 20 Mar 2013 22:05

Shrinivasan wrote:but in showing a teeny-weeny longer range we are trying to send out a message!!!


I think the message was sent sometime ago in AI-13 when Dr. Pillai was asked whether India has plans to indigenize the tech and increase it's range. Dr. Pillai gave a politically correct answer but the Chairman said bluntly to the person that you are asking questions which will not be answered in this platform :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 22:06

looks like arihant launched her first salvo as the chakra lacks the VL tube.

among Rus subs only the Yasen class has 8x4=32 yakhont VL tubes + 40 weapons in torpedo room.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 20 Mar 2013 22:18

Shrinivasan wrote:One Newbie pooch, the supersonic cruise missile developed by the Bear was only a incline launched ship launched missile, when we improved it and created a sub-launched version, why not call it a new missile and shake of MTCR limitations? why still retain the same name and get constrained (in paper) to the < 300KM and < 500KG warhead limits?


Cause the liquid ramjet engine and the seeker both are of Russian origin but the MTCR moh-maya is only for day to day political posturing keeping up with India's innocent kid image. At the time of war ghanta any MTCR guidelines will be followed.

P.S.- Unkil can kiss India's ass.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 20 Mar 2013 22:33

Singha wrote:looks like arihant launched her first salvo as the chakra lacks the VL tube.

among Rus subs only the Yasen class has 8x4=32 yakhont VL tubes + 40 weapons in torpedo room.


New Indian Express: Maiden submarine trial of BrahMos cruise missile successful
By Hemant Kumar Rout | ENS - BALASORE 20th March 2013 03:07 PM

India achieved another milestone in its defence programme by successfully test firing the submarine-launched version of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile for the first time from a submerged platform off the Visakhapatnam coast on Wednesday.

Defence sources said the missile in its full operational configuration was launched from a pontoon (replica of a submarine) positioned nearly 30 feet deep in Bay of Bengal at about 2.10 pm.

Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited A Sivathanu Pillai said the missile took off vertically from the submerged platform for its full range of 290 kms and hit the target with high accuracy.

“It was a history for us as the mission achieved 100 percent success. All mission parameters have been successfully met and it was a copy book lunch,” Pillai told ‘The New Indian Express’ over phone.

This is the first time that a supersonic cruise missile is launched vertically from a submerged platform in the world. The success however came a week after the unsuccessful trial of India’s first sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay, which had veered from its path and was destroyed mid-way.

A release from the BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited stated that the missile emerged from underwater, took a turn towards the designated target and followed a pre-defined trajectory meeting all mission objectives. All the telemetry and tracking stations, including Indian naval ships positioned throughout the flight path, confirmed the pin-point accuracy of the mission.

The missile is fully ready for fitment in P75 (I) of Indian Navy in vertical launch configuration which will make the platform one of the most powerful weapon platform in the world,” claimed Pillai.

Jointly developed by India and Russia, the nine-meter long missile can travel at thrice the speed of sound and carry a conventional warhead weighing upto 300 kg. The land and naval variants of BrahMos missile have already proved their mettle in both vertical and inclined launch configurations. The missile has been successfully inducted in a number of front-line Indian Navy warships and will be deployed in other future surface ships.

Defence scientists said the missile was capable of being launched from submarine from a depth of 40-50 meters. Integrated vertically with a modular launcher in the pressure hull of the submarine, the missile has identical configuration similar to its ship based system.

The submarines equipped with BrahMos missiles would increase the offensive power of the vessel without compromising on its defensive power as the torpedo tubes in it can be utilized for defence, the scientists added.

Defence Minister A K Antony has congratulated Indian scientists, Russian specialists and members from Indian Navy associated with the project for the successful mission.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Mar 2013 22:41

Converting a surface launched vehicle to submarine launch is not an easy feat. Kudos for the job well done.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 20 Mar 2013 23:51

maitya wrote:No it doesn't fold currently

True.
maitya wrote:it will be quite a difficult task to squeeze-in those fins. ...

They are not going to fold the fins back into the fuselage. They are only going fold them on the outside. Much like the brahmos and the and the K-15.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 20 Mar 2013 23:56

Congrats to DRDO and the Brahmos team. Whether India is 'an innocent kid' or not, the fact remains that India's intentions are not aggressive or otherwise malafide. They are purely defensive, with the idea of building up a retaliatory capacity. China is expansionist, with the goal of dominating Asia, and probably the world. The control-domination-empire motivation. No one seriously accuses India of having such a goal. Only real demagogues and fanatics, who themselves believe in and accept the idea of China, the US, the UK, Russia or France dominating a large part of the world. And hence, view any Indian strength or assertiveness as significantly diluting the power of this oligarchy.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 21 Mar 2013 01:05

Congratulations to Brahmos corp for the successful launch.

Now looking forward to the captive trials on thee Su-30. It is also planned soon.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 21 Mar 2013 03:02

Newbie question: this "offensive versus defensive weapon" statement - does it really have merit? I know Brahmos wont fit into torp tubes. But if it did, wouldnt it give us more flexibility instead of less - i.e. our current subs would be able to fire it.

Or are torpedo room sizes limited, which puts a cap on the # of missile+torps that can be stored?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 21 Mar 2013 03:35

US sends new satellite to monitor global missile launches

Cape Canaveral: An unmanned Atlas 5 rocket blasted off from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida on Tuesday to put a second upgraded missile-warning satellite into orbit.

The 192-foot (58-meter) rocket lifted off from its seaside launch pad at 5:21 p.m. EDT/2121 GMT, carrying the U.S. Air Force's second Space Based Infrared System Geosynchronous, or Geo2, satellite.

Once operational, the spacecraft will join an orbital surveillance network that continually scans the globe for tell-tale signs of missile launches.


"The infrared signature coming out the back end of a missile, we see that," Air Force Space Commander William Shelton said on Tuesday during a House Science Committee hearing about detecting incoming asteroids and other space objects.

"We'll be able to tell you what type of missile it is. We'll be able to tell you where that missile is going. We'll be able to tell you where it's going to impact," Shelton added.

"Those infrared sensors can be used for other things, but they can't be used for predictive things out beyond Earth," he said.

The satellite, built by Lockheed Martin joins an identical craft, Geo1, launched in May 2011. Each are equipped with two infrared sensors, one which continually scans the globe for missile launches, and the other which can stare at a fixed point.

The Space Based Infrared System supplements and eventually will replace the predecessor Defense Support Program satellite network which has been operating for 40 years.

"I would argue that the nation's missile warning system is critical now, perhaps even more so than it was during the Cold War," said James Planeaux, who oversees the Air Force's Infrared Space Systems directorate.

"Certainly, strategic and tactical missile threats have proliferated in both number and type. We're modernizing the nation's systems so we remain highly capable against today's threats."

The space-based network detected nearly 200 missile launches in 2011 and an additional 1,700 "special infrared events," Planeaux said.

"I believe with some of the activity we're seeing around the world even this year, we're seeing an increase in the number of global missile launches," Planeaux said.

On Friday, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced plans to deploy 14 additional missile interceptors in Alaska to guard against increased threats from North Korea and Iran.

Data from the military's space-based monitoring network feeds missile interceptors positioning and tracking information.

Geo1 has not yet been put into operational service due to a data communications issue, but work to certify it for real-time monitoring should be completed by October 1, Planeaux said.

Geo2's certification is expected to follow before the end of the year.

Two more satellites are being built for launch in 2015 and 2016, respectively, and a follow-on contract for an additional pair is expected to be awarded this year, Planeaux added.

Tuesday's launch was the 69th for rocket manufacturer United Launch Alliance, a partnership of Lockheed Martin and Boeing that was established in 2006.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 21 Mar 2013 05:34

India tests underwater BrahMos missile but has no submarine to fire it
:
:
:
Defence minister A K Antony also chipped in soon after by saying, "It's a wonderful achievement and proud moment for India." DRDO chief V K Saraswat said it was "a significant step towards boosting India's military strength". Other defence scientists proclaimed this was "first time any supersonic cruise missile has been launched vertically from a submerged platform".

Amid all these gushing accolades, they however forgot to mention one critical fact: the Project-75 India submarines are nothing but a mere pipedream at present. With even the initial global tender or RFP (request for proposal) for them yet to be floated, the Navy will not get the first such submarine anytime before 2023.
:
:
:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan Dixit » 21 Mar 2013 07:04

^ That news report was a classic case of DDM. Things particularly complex things are developed in iterations. Apparently, the DDM journalist has no idea how complex things are developed and tested.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 21 Mar 2013 07:28

Submarine variant of BrahMos test fired - S.Anandan, The Hindu
. . . hit an altitude of 14 km before cruising along a trajectory at Mach 3 to decimate the designated target as low as 12 metres over the sea. The flight lasted about 400 seconds. . . The naval variant of the missile comes in vertical and inclined launch configurations.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby nash » 21 Mar 2013 08:11

Mach3 in 400 sec will easily give more than 300km.... :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby adityadange » 21 Mar 2013 08:58

the missile will not travel at mach3 from first sec. gaining this much of speed will take some time and distance traveled in this time will not be much. so 300+ km in 400 sec cannot be said definitely.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_20296 » 21 Mar 2013 09:51

+ BrahMos does not travel in straight line most of the times.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Gagan » 21 Mar 2013 21:24

The underwater missile launches are occuring one after the other.
I think there is a russian sub in Indian waters that is the launch platform.

DRDO scientists were talking earlier about waiting for the arrival of the launch platform.
Is this a Delta class sub or the typhoon class sub?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby krishnan » 22 Mar 2013 06:32

ToI and hindu refer to a pontoon being used....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Mar 2013 09:25

the Arihant was also scheduled to do a K15 launch soon....maybe with a adapter the brahmos can also be fired off the same tubes. I wouldnt be surprised if the Arihant did this test because press release did not mention pontoon but a "underwater platform".

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 24 Mar 2013 21:10

Govt clears Rs 1,500 crore proposal for Pinaka rockets
To enhance the Army's firepower, the government has approved a Rs 1,500 crore proposal for production of more than 2,000 rockets for the Pinaka multi- barrel weapons system.

The Army requires more than 2,000 of these rockets to equip its 10-12 regiments comprising the Pinaka launchers.
With a focus on indigenisation to avoid scams in acquisition of foreign military hardware, the Defence Ministry has also decided to pump in Rs 15,000 crore to augment domestic military production.

The major plans of OFB include augmentation of production capabilities for T-90 and T-72 tanks, engines for armoured vehicles and setting up of 155mm howitzer production plants.

The Ministry's Department of Defence Production has decided to hike the allocation from Rs 583 crore during the 11th Plan period to Rs 15,000 crore for modernisation of the production capabilities of OFB during the current Plan.


After the recent VVIP chopper scam, Defence Minister A K Antony had stated that indigenous defence production was the only answer to avoid such scandals. The Ministry would change policies in that regard, he had said.

OFB list includes upgrading of 130mm M46 field artillery guns to 155mm 45 calibre standard, development of 155mm 52 calibre mounted howitzers and integration of the 105mm field guns on BMP combat vehicles.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 24 Mar 2013 23:50

It should be 20,000 rockets for Rs. 1500 crores. Once a DDM always DDM

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby RamaY » 24 Mar 2013 23:57

So for Rs 1500 crore, IA can neutralize whole Slum-A-Bad?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 25 Mar 2013 07:01

pankajs wrote:Govt clears Rs 1,500 crore proposal for Pinaka rockets
To enhance the Army's firepower, the government has approved a Rs 1,500 crore proposal for production of more than 2,000 rockets for the Pinaka multi- barrel weapons system.

The Army requires more than 2,000 of these rockets to equip its 10-12 regiments comprising the Pinaka launchers.


Guys, did you notice the 10-12 Regiments reference... when did we induct 10-12 regiments of Pinaka... If this we true even remotely (like 5-6 regiments) I am very very happy... ORBAT and TOW gurus please chime in...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 25 Mar 2013 09:58

Actually this is old news re circulated to improve image of Saint Anthony for the family. The Saint cut DRDO and OFB budgets to benefit imports is now suddenly realizing value of indigenisation after 9 years of corruption errr Congress Rule. For instance, Rs. 1500 crores are going to improve the production line of imported T-90, but complete silence on Arjuns.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_20453 » 25 Mar 2013 18:56

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_5Fqc5MZe4o/U ... MBRL-1.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jSQHSxZwtHg/U ... MBRL-2.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XpY5Ehvhjic/U ... MBRL-3.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OARe91BtuHQ/U ... MBRL-4.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f99iqblQxeU/U ... MBRL-5.JPG

Each Pinaka Battery has 6 launchers, 3 Replenishment vehicles (with 4*six rocket laucnhing modules per veicle or 12 modules) i.e each battery can launch two salvos of 72 rockets i.e 144 per battery ready to use. Not sure how many batteries per regiment or perhaps they refer to a battery as a regiment not sure.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2013 19:09

vic wrote:Actually this is old news re circulated to improve image of Saint Anthony for the family. The Saint cut DRDO and OFB budgets to benefit imports is now suddenly realizing value of indigenisation after 9 years of corruption errr Congress Rule. For instance, Rs. 1500 crores are going to improve the production line of imported T-90, but complete silence on Arjuns.



I would take a more worrying view. For 3 to 3 1/2 years each and every government makes money. They cover their tracks towards the end and start no new deals because the next government may screw them. When a new govt comes, they start making deals to make money while doing a witch hunt to screw the previous government who will not get caught because they have done no new deals towards the end and have spent over 1 year covering their tracks.. If a non Congress government comes next year they will simply reverse everything that Congress did and say they were corrupt, but they too will make shit loads of money for 3 years and then cover up for 2 years. Only we the stupid population think that a different party will do something different. Call me out in 5 years if I am wrong.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Katare » 26 Mar 2013 04:20

The Rs 1500corer project is for upgrading OFB facilities to increase manufacturing capacity of Pinaka rockets to 2000 rockets/year from current 1000 rockets/year. This will be increased to 5000 rockets/year in next phase as per previous news/articles.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby srai » 26 Mar 2013 04:57

Septimus P. wrote:http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_5Fqc5MZe4o/UOqP4NLzqbI/AAAAAAAADFk/cfc2tQT5g1Q/s1600/Pinaka+2+MBRL-1.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jSQHSxZwtHg/U ... MBRL-2.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XpY5Ehvhjic/U ... MBRL-3.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OARe91BtuHQ/U ... MBRL-4.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f99iqblQxeU/U ... MBRL-5.JPG

Each Pinaka Battery has 6 launchers, 3 Replenishment vehicles (with 4*six rocket laucnhing modules per veicle or 12 modules) i.e each battery can launch two salvos of 72 rockets i.e 144 per battery ready to use. Not sure how many batteries per regiment or perhaps they refer to a battery as a regiment not sure.


1 Pinaka regiment -> 3 Pinaka Batteries plus command and reserve vehicles
1 Pinaka battery -> 6 launchers (12 rockets each), 6 loader vehicles , 3 replenishment vehicles (24 rockets each), 2 vehicles for the command post and the meteorological radar

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby srin » 26 Mar 2013 08:54

shiv wrote:
vic wrote:Actually this is old news re circulated to improve image of Saint Anthony for the family. The Saint cut DRDO and OFB budgets to benefit imports is now suddenly realizing value of indigenisation after 9 years of corruption errr Congress Rule. For instance, Rs. 1500 crores are going to improve the production line of imported T-90, but complete silence on Arjuns.



I would take a more worrying view. For 3 to 3 1/2 years each and every government makes money. They cover their tracks towards the end and start no new deals because the next government may screw them. When a new govt comes, they start making deals to make money while doing a witch hunt to screw the previous government who will not get caught because they have done no new deals towards the end and have spent over 1 year covering their tracks.. If a non Congress government comes next year they will simply reverse everything that Congress did and say they were corrupt, but they too will make shit loads of money for 3 years and then cover up for 2 years. Only we the stupid population think that a different party will do something different. Call me out in 5 years if I am wrong.


Shiv-saar, I've a slightly different view and more cynical view. Maybe that I've watched too many Yes Minister episodes, but I don't see how Indian civil service is different (everybody ought to watch them, they are enlightening). Whichever party comes to power, the core government doesn't change. Ministries are typically run by bureaucrats, with ministers not really interested in what's going on in the ministry. They simply have to go by the advice given to them by the secretaries of the Govt. The best (or worst) that can happen is that they want their share of the spoils before they are rotated out.

I'd expect that the arms vendors would have figured out that it is far more effective and efficient to "lobby" the MoD babus. After that things become simple - if the rivals win, files can get misplaced, slow tracked, file notings made, RM can be advised that it would be a "courageous decision" to take etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 26 Mar 2013 09:59

Septimus P. wrote:<SNIP>Each Pinaka Battery has 6 launchers, 3 Replenishment vehicles (with 4*six rocket laucnhing modules per veicle or 12 modules) i.e each battery can launch two salvos of 72 rockets i.e 144 per battery ready to use. Not sure how many batteries per regiment or perhaps they refer to a battery as a regiment not sure.


3 Batteries per regiment for a total of 18 firing units.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Siddhu » 26 Mar 2013 11:29

ICBM system (Surya)

http://rense.com/general27/threat.htm
Interesting artical 8)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 26 Mar 2013 11:46

Siddhu wrote:ICBM system (Surya)

http://rense.com/general27/threat.htm
Interesting artical 8)

Dear, typical shity article from paknews,
they always trying to create hysteria of Indian missile and look how idoit say "India will get Topol from Russia" trying hide own footprint of chines and NOKO missile paki get.

nothing but Bs

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Siddhu » 26 Mar 2013 13:06

Well i am more concerned about the missile with 12k+ km range, I read it some where(2-3 years back) that there are two new missiles being developed independently by DRDO's Unit with 10k+ and 20k+ range.

Interstingly i find that most of the speculation made long back are found to be true.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 26 Mar 2013 13:37

Siddhu wrote:ICBM system (Surya)

http://rense.com/general27/threat.htm
Interesting artical 8)



very old article 2002 its already been 11 years , lost interest after 2-3 lines

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 26 Mar 2013 13:39

Siddhu wrote:Well i am more concerned about the missile with 12k+ km range, I read it some where(2-3 years back) that there are two new missiles being developed independently by DRDO's Unit with 10k+ and 20k+ range.

Interstingly i find that most of the speculation made long back are found to be true.


Surya ICBM has been a topic of interest for many years no definite news present in public domain other than that its could be a liquid fueled ICBM


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