Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Singha
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Dec 2013 18:39

javelin have gora chamra so benchmark can be lowered.
helina have kala chamra so benchmark will be rigid.
after a fruitless hunt of 5 yrs trying seekers from all over the world, the project will be declared obsolete and late and hence a failure.
followed by import of 10,000 javelins with 2.5km seeker!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 11 Dec 2013 19:39

DRDO seems confident that the new seeker will make the cut let's wait and watch. Though even that can't confirm an order from IA.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Dec 2013 19:47

Also why test in hottest summer at max range? Is it realistic combat situation they expect TSP to charge into the desert in summer? They will die of thirst before they get killed by Nag/Vag.

Another thing is propellant burn rate is temperature dependent. So it will burn faster/quicker on hot days.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby John » 11 Dec 2013 19:53

Singha wrote:javelin have gora chamra so benchmark can be lowered.

The missiles' are not of the same class Javelin is the half weight of Nag which is latter's biggest drawback. Javelin itself is considered too bulky for urban warfare.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vishvak » 11 Dec 2013 20:27

This is not about its weight, but it does create a gap in battlefield in desert environment - just as any other missile would.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby John » 11 Dec 2013 21:29

vishvak wrote:This is not about its weight, but it does create a gap in battlefield in desert environment - just as any other missile would.


No but we are comparing its desert performance to a man portable missile that is half its weight..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 11 Dec 2013 21:49

Why hot test - probably because we cannot determine when we shall go to war so if we need to fight in the heat of the desert probably better have a really good weapon.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vishvak » 11 Dec 2013 22:44

John wrote:
vishvak wrote:This is not about its weight, but it does create a gap in battlefield in desert environment - just as any other missile would.


No but we are comparing its desert performance to a man portable missile that is half its weight..

We aren't comparing but wondering how benchmark is lowered for gora chamraa javelin. Its not about weight at all. In fact weight has nothing to do with desert trials - meaning desi missile even with more weight is as good.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 11 Dec 2013 22:52

Nobody is stopping the Army from using Milan, Konkurs, SAMHO etc on super hot summer day apart from using Nags from shorter ranges. What is the proof that GILL-Spike missiles can work better in such conditions?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby John » 11 Dec 2013 23:04

vishvak wrote:We aren't comparing but wondering how benchmark is lowered for gora chamraa javelin. Its not about weight at all. In fact weight has nothing to do with desert trials - meaning desi missile even with more weight is as good.

What is so hard to understand that purpose that IA is planning to use Nag for it wants a range of atleast 3 km, where does it say Javelin will be used for the same role but Army decided to lower the benchmarks?? The missiles' were not competing with one another. Either way it is moot point with Javelin purchase canned, Nag direct competition is Spike-ER which has range of around 8 km.

IMO hopefully DRDO can spawn family of missile from Nag like IAI has done with Spike so that we can start replacing some of the imports.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 11 Dec 2013 23:23

Nag has two roles -

1. Quickly recce and create a gap for own forces to exploit by precisely targeting enemy forces. Now tank ammo range is 2.5 km. If Nag seeker works for 2.5 km, & NAMICA has to close to that range, then enemy tanks can possibly chew NAMICAs.

2. Other role is defensive, ie., breaking up enemy attacks at long range. Again, if it lets enemy tanks come 2.5 km within it, it is exposing itself.

Javelin is a replacement of Milan & Konkurs. Not even in the same class or role as Nag.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 11 Dec 2013 23:33

vishvak wrote: We aren't comparing but wondering how benchmark is lowered for gora chamraa javelin. Its not about weight at all. In fact weight has nothing to do with desert trials - meaning desi missile even with more weight is as good.


First - go easy on the conspiracy theories especially when it arises from nothing but a single post by someone who himself has not bothered to do some homework. I will come to this part later.

Second - Javelin is man-portable missile to be used by Infantry.

If you read about the missile target acquisition process given on the Wikipedia page of the missile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin#cite_note-4, you'll realize that the gunner can aim through the sites on Command Launch Unit (CLU) and missile itself - basically, a line-of-sight (LOS) target acquisition.

Now, ask yourself this - how is an infantryman going to be able target something 4-kms away? Will he get a LOS for such an action? There is a reason that the range of man-portable ATGM is limited to under 3 kms in most cases.

Now coming to the part about Javelin's max range and seeker range.

Well, it is always advisable to read the fine print before making tall claims.

The Max Range data of 4.5 kms on Wikipedia page quotes this news item as source. Read and Laugh. Or Cry.

http://www.deagel.com/news/Javelin-Man-Portable-Anti-Tank-Missile-Demonstrates-Extended-Range-Capability_n000011204.aspx

ORLANDO, Fla., (Feb. 6, 2013) � The Raytheon [NYSE: RTN] and Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] Javelin Joint Venture recently demonstrated the ability of the Javelin missile to engage targets beyond its current maximum range requirements during a series of tests at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla.

During the U.S. Army tests, the Javelin system acquired and engaged targets up to 4,750 meters.

"These tests prove that, under favorable conditions, Javelin can have reliable, solid performance as a close-combat weapon system well beyond the current maximum range requirement of 2,500 meters," :mrgreen: said Duane Gooden, Javelin Joint Venture president and Raytheon Javelin program director. "There were two direct hits on the threat representative target at the extended range."

Demonstrating Javelin's extended range performance will further enhance survivability of the dismounted Javelin gunner in combat.

"Most vehicle requirements are for a missile that can engage a target at 4,000-plus meters," said Barry James, Javelin Joint Venture vice president and Javelin program director in Lockheed Martin's Missiles and Fire Control business. "The results of these tests indicate the fire-and-forget Javelin missile can potentially be used in both vehicle and dismounted roles.


The issue with respect to Nag and IA's handling of the situation can stand on their own merit. Don't bring arguments which are patently incorrect to create a case for your POV.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 12 Dec 2013 06:57

On the other hand, the nag seeker if it has a limitation in range, can be adapted for a shorter ranged weapon, while the development of a longer ranged seeker continues for the nag.

Resulting in a domestic javalin equivelent.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 12 Dec 2013 12:35

That report which started this entire fracas is by Hemant Rout. That dude has a long history of mixing up some information with inaccurate info/ DRDO baiting (missiles failed yada yada) and then proves 50% wrong. He seems to believe in the adage, it aint news unless its bad

So I'd wait for the conclusive results on the recent tests and what happened to the Namica mods asked for, before determining whats going on with either Nag or HeliNa

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 12 Dec 2013 15:37

These tests prove that, under favorable conditions, Javelin can have reliable, solid performance as a close-combat weapon system well beyond the current maximum range requirement of 2,500 meters


Yeah "under favourable conditions", as if war happens only when conditions are favourable !!! Nag's seeker has the claimed range under such "favourable conditions" but when Rajshathan summer is at it's peak then it has problem distinguishing it's target from the background. I would love to see how good the much vaunted Javelin does then if the Americans have the balls to put it through such test.

The talk of manportable Javelin being == to 4 km range ATGM is also just "talk". It's one thing for the seeker to see the target at that range, another to lock onto it and totally another thing for the missile to travel that much distance do it's maneuver and destroy that target. The current Javelin doesn't have that much compressed gas so that the J-T cooler can cool the seeker for that much time for it to strike target at 4 km range. It can be done but then I doubt it will remain "man portable". Also with what flight profile does the missile travel 4 km ??? I guess minus maneuvers Nag can also travel much more than 4 km.

The report also mentions,

the Javelin system acquired and engaged targets up to 4,750 meters.


Now this can mean two things that the seeker saw (acquired) and locked on to the target (engaged) at that range or the seeker saw as well as locked onto the target (acquired) and the missile destroyed the target (engaged) at 4.75 Km. But since the quoted part of the report mentions nowhere about the targets being destroyed I would go with the first meaning which isn't anything out of this world since Nag seeker does the same thing. Under "favourable conditions" of course.

Goras and there marketing tacts :roll:

Correction - Read the report again and it does mention that there were two direct hits but then it only raises more questions. If so then the current Javelin weight can be brought down more and be made lighter and if that's the case why aren't they doing it ??? What djinn propellant does it uses which gives a range of 4+ Km ??? I don't see any claim of some djinn propellant being used in Javelin. How come the gas bottle is supplying the required amount of gas for both 2.5 km as well as 4.75 km ??? Has Khan stolen some djinn tech from pottystan which gives Javelin such murd-e-mommin performance ???

I think it might be some Javelin-ER kind of missile of Javelin family which GDM (Gora Dork Media) failed to understand and thought it's the same Javelin man portable one.
Last edited by Sagar G on 12 Dec 2013 16:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 12 Dec 2013 15:55

vic wrote:QRSAM & SRSAM are pushed on the grounds similar to by creating a fictitious requirement


QRSAM is an army requirement while SRSAM is a tri service requirement. AFAIK the former is a home grown effort while the latter is the "Maitri" one with France. Astra is a different class of missile and if you say to use a variant of the same then that will be a totally new missile, not a variant.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby mody » 12 Dec 2013 17:53

Nag does not have a direct equivalent. Helina can be compared to PARS3, Spike ER or Hellfire.

Hellfire is the gold standard and they have a family of missiles derived from the original Anti-armour hellfire.
This also shows the potential of Helina, how it too can be developed into a family of missiles for a variety of roles.

What we know is that Nags IIR seeker works for a range of 4 Kms in ideal conditions and upto 2.5 Kms for very hot desert conditions.
If we have any data from trial of Spike ER to compare against, then we can have a better idea as to where Nag stands.

Quite frankly I think, Nag in its current form, can be adopted by IA. Its only that IA is not quite sure about its role and utility. For Namica kind of vehicle, the missile would be required to have a range between 4-8 Kms, to make sense. Range of 2-4 Kms, falls within the range of tank guns and hence makes the Namica vulnerable. A 2-4 Kms fire and forget missile in man portable form is a another issue altogether and something that IA really wants.

Nag in its current form can't fulfill both of the above requirements. Hence the trials for using a 5 mtr mast on the Namica, to increase the range of Nag and also asking DRDO to come up with a Nag version that weighs half of what it weighs right now.

Helina once perfected will have much better prospects, because for heli borne missile, it will have a range of between 4-7 Kms.
DRDO should first concentrate on getting the Helina with IIR seeker ready for induction. Next step work on CLGM type laser guided man portable missile and then work on developing a Man portable Nag, with 2.5 Kms range.

MMw seeker, Lock ON after launch and developing a family of Helina missiles can come after that.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby bmallick » 12 Dec 2013 18:45

Sagar G wrote:
vic wrote:QRSAM & SRSAM are pushed on the grounds similar to by creating a fictitious requirement


QRSAM is an army requirement while SRSAM is a tri service requirement. AFAIK the former is a home grown effort while the latter is the "Maitri" one with France. Astra is a different class of missile and if you say to use a variant of the same then that will be a totally new missile, not a variant.


I think what "vic" is trying to say is the following.

There is a precedence to use modify a AAM system for Surface Launch usage. There are quite a few examples of the same. Moreover, with a modern AAM like Astra, which has active seeker, the actual target interception processing hard work is done by the missile itself. It basically needs mid course guidance/update to provide information of the target. This information can be provided by any system, not necessarily a launching aircraft. Moreover, Astra's initial test launches are all ground launched. Also its range is quoted as 21 Km at for a launch at sea level. So here we have a short-medium range missile, that can work for us.

So, even if we develop initially boxed launcher ( not VLS) for Astra with 6-8 missiles, would weigh around 1-1.3 tons, put it on a truck. Put in a command & radar truck for a battery and we have a short-medium range Air defense system.


Added later: However, we might know exactly, whether ground launched vls version of Astra is being developed under project QRSAM/SRSAM .


Now, making it VLS launched would require further work. But maybe we can do away with that requirement initially. However, if done, then even our Naval ships can start using it, doing away with Barak-1.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Dec 2013 22:29

mody, Good analysis of the customer requirements vs the product offered.

Also take a look at the basic Nag design. Its odd in that the booster(ahead of the sustainer with those canted nozzles) is still carried even after its expended.
So adds deadweight reducing range.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 12 Dec 2013 22:30

bmallick wrote:I think what "vic" is trying to say is the following............


I don't think it's that easy to just convert an AAM to SAM on the drop of a hat more so when the AAM is yet to be tested and inducted into service. At this point of time different programs have been initiated to fulfill various requirements and there is no turning back from it. Let first Astra get inducted into it's intended role then we can talk about it's conversion to SAM.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 12 Dec 2013 22:47

mody wrote:Its only that IA is not quite sure about its role and utility.


This argument is rubbish, Nag is an IGMDP program missile. What was the IA doing all these years when Nag was being developed ??? Are you saying that IA is so incompetent that they can't come up with a missiles intended role all these decades ???

mody wrote:Hence the trials for using a 5 mtr mast on the Namica, to increase the range of Nag and also asking DRDO to come up with a Nag version that weighs half of what it weighs right now.


How come having the target acquisition system over the mast increases the Nag missiles range ???

The army has asked to come with a lighter version not exactly half of it's current weight. This is nothing but a stalling tactic.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 13 Dec 2013 01:28


PratikDas
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 13 Dec 2013 06:13

Karan M wrote:nirbhay test by end dec 2014
http://www.aeromag.in/sites/default/fil ... 0dplow.pdf


Page 64 says 2013. I think that's what you meant.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby dinesha » 13 Dec 2013 12:30

Karan M wrote:That report which started this entire fracas is by Hemant Rout. That dude has a long history of mixing up some information with inaccurate info/ DRDO baiting (missiles failed yada yada) and then proves 50% wrong. He seems to believe in the adage, it aint news unless its bad

So I'd wait for the conclusive results on the recent tests and what happened to the Namica mods asked for, before determining whats going on with either Nag or HeliNa


On the contrary Rout has been reporting accurately about the various missile test off the Orrisa cost..
His name poped up in BRF few years back as he was the only person to accurately report the failure of one of the Agni test..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Katare » 13 Dec 2013 13:27

Rajsthan desert is wet and hot that causes unique problems for ir seekers. Anyhow the problem may haveen already rectified by now. Also army had already ordered few units with 400 rounds iirc. Things are moving and once it frosses the finish line expect a mega akash like order.

It is unlikely that any foreign seeker will work at raj in those conditions

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby srai » 13 Dec 2013 13:39

Katare wrote:... Also army had already ordered few units with 400 rounds iirc. Things are moving and once it frosses the finish line expect a mega akash like order.

...


Initial order is for 443 Nag missiles and 13 NAMICAs. Total planned acquisition is 7,000 NAG missiles and 200 NAMICAs.

Nag waits for sweetheart NAMICA
...
The wait has put Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) into an emotional spin, considering that the Indian Army had earlier placed its Acceptance of Necessity (AON) for 443 Nag missiles 13 NAMICAs in 2005. The Army had made it clear then that a firm commitment will only be given once all trials are successful and the system is fit for induction. The Army also projected in their perspective plan the need for 7000 Nag missiles and around 200 NAMICAs.
...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 13 Dec 2013 14:18

srai wrote:
Katare wrote:... Also army had already ordered few units with 400 rounds iirc. Things are moving and once it frosses the finish line expect a mega akash like order.

...


Initial order is for 443 Nag missiles and 13 NAMICAs. Total planned acquisition is 7,000 NAG missiles and 200 NAMICAs.

Nag waits for sweetheart NAMICA
...
The wait has put Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) into an emotional spin, considering that the Indian Army had earlier placed its Acceptance of Necessity (AON) for 443 Nag missiles 13 NAMICAs in 2005. The Army had made it clear then that a firm commitment will only be given once all trials are successful and the system is fit for induction. The Army also projected in their perspective plan the need for 7000 Nag missiles and around 200 NAMICAs.
...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 13 Dec 2013 15:12

Dinesha, read his reports carefully and see what i said. What i mean is he mixes up some info eg missile test failures etc with gossip/speculation to make teh report more "spicy". I remember at least 2 reports wherein he jumped to conclusions about why issues occurred and attempted to make it into a huge issue. So if he is saying that a test failed, thats about the only part that may be true. Rest of stuff about why, what is to be done etc will just be filler and usually wrong. In this case, all that stuff about IA wanting Nag to be lighter, claims about seeker tech/ranges - i would take that with a bag of salt. Basically he has some sources on the testing side at Chandipur, who might be part of the establishment and hence get to observe the tests or pick up news bits about test outcomes, but who are clearly not privy to the discussions amongst the testing group/designers, themselves.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 13 Dec 2013 19:45

As per this,
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the- ... 20488.html

In the works is an as yet unnamed longer-legged variant of the K-4 with a 5,000-km range. The 12-m long missile is meant to arm future nuclear submarines.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Dec 2013 20:32

we seem to take a hell of long time to reach the final stable configs moving up the size and range by 20% in each leg.
A5 is still one level below the stable state of 10000km.
K4 is two levels below assuming we want a 8000km range SLBM eventually.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Katare » 14 Dec 2013 01:20

vic wrote: Also army had already ordered few units with 400 rounds iirc. Things are moving and once it frosses the finish line expect a mega akash like order.

...

Initial order is for 443 Nag missiles and 13 NAMICAs. Total planned acquisition is 7,000 NAG missiles and 200 NAMICAs.

[url=http://tarmak007.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/nag-waits-for-namica-emotional-drdl-for.html]Nag waits for sweetheart NAMICA[url/]
...
The wait has put Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) into an emotional spin, considering that the Indian Army had earlier placed its Acceptance of Necessity (AON) for 443 Nag missiles 13 NAMICAs in 2005. The Army had made it clear then that a firm commitment will only be given once all trials are successful and the system is fit for induction. The Army also projected in their perspective plan the need for 7000 Nag missiles and around 200 NAMICAs.
...

Armed forces are frustratingly ridged in domestic equipment evaluations but once they meet the specs significant orders do follow. As per DRDO $26 billion worth of arms and equipment are being made based on DRDO developed technologies.

Large orders and followons were put for ALH, Pinaka, Radars and Akash. Nag will get there in due time although it does take too long and usually too arduous a process which often proves fatal to many projects, just like u said. Things are not as bad or rotten as you paint them neither are they where they should be.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 15 Dec 2013 23:09

Starting trouble

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 16 Dec 2013 00:57

Singha wrote:we seem to take a hell of long time to reach the final stable configs moving up the size and range by 20% in each leg.
A5 is still one level below the stable state of 10000km.
K4 is two levels below assuming we want a 8000km range SLBM eventually.


Political decisions also play a role. GOI has decided not to alarm khan or EU, hence lower ranges..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Gagan » 16 Dec 2013 05:56

Nirbhay Test?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 16 Dec 2013 08:20

December end

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 16 Dec 2013 09:05

Kal dekhiye, LR-SAM ka asli sach.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby mody » 16 Dec 2013 12:24

I will bet my last naya paisa, that IA will never end up ordering 7,000 Nag missiles.
Unless Nag is chosen as standard fit for FICV project and also though highely unlikely, for the BMP-2 upgrade, the vehicle mounted Nag is going to see limited service.

I agree with SagarG, that IA not being sure of the role for Nag and Namica in its current form, is not acceptable. The project has been going on for a very long time.
But then I fear, that is the ugly truth. Hence the endless delay tactics.
I wonder, how the original French IR seeker, performed in the Desert heat in summer. Was the old French seeker an IR seeker or IIR seeker?

The best way forward for DRDO it to concentrate on the Helina in the short term and finish the trials. The platform for the helina is also ready in the form of Rudra. DRDO can go back to all the modifications for Namica and trials for Nag thereafter.
Otherwise the endless delays, will simply open up the doors for foreign imports and will shut down the prospects for Nag and Helina.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 16 Dec 2013 15:40

Chacko- what is the asli sach? Man, you are sounding like one of the TV dudes now. Classic. :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Karan M » 16 Dec 2013 16:02

BTW, heres what I have from my notes - as i had promised in ages ago discussion on Nag, history and genesis

Army asked for 3G ATM - ATM-3 which became the Nag

ATM-3 requirements projected to missile group and development and time were based on this system, which DRDL had started working on in late 70's.
DRDO earlier did a feasibility study of ATM system advanced - based on semi-active laser guidance. Basic elements already developed (missile seeker and laser designator including source). Further Proto laser seeker, designator were under development - basically, mature technology, to be available per timeframe. Fallback option, mmW guidance was considered, but only limited funds were available for this (but were earmarked and put under Nag program).
After IGMDP clearance, IA said:
-Operational implementation of SAL guidance was not suitable as designator outside firing vehicle (other vehicle/operator)
- Wanted autonomous system, fire and forget, which could take evasive action after missile firing
- Hence passive IIR or MMW active homing or Co2 laser radar seeker active homing. SAL dropped. Of the the three, passive IIR picked up, mmW backup. Need for developing 2 high tech system as versus simpler, matured SAL meant new efforts, funding, time and participation of more work centers and academic institutions
- Army wanted Nag to be deployed by recce and support battalions of mechanised infantry. Hence wheeled option of carried was ruled out. Also, had to be top attack. also meant BMP2 as thats what mechanised infantry employ
- Trials of missile with CCD seeker for validating concept, and IIR seeker later (both day and night). MMW seeker of very high complexity - work underway to improve performance.
1 System required a variety of new tech, which meant complete rework of schedule, time cost (more than IGMDP proposal) including the IIR/MMW seekers
2 high energy propellant for booster, sustainer smokeless propulsion
3 tandem warhead
4 compact safety and actuating system for warhead
5 digital control guidance computer and autopilot (since now autonomous missile and fire and forget)
6 all electric clean actuation system
7 light weight high strength composite/metallic system
8 optimised aero system with folded wings to facilitate tube launching
9 compact high energy lithium thermal batteries for missile power supply (high requirments of new onboard systems)
10 canisterised missile with tube launching
11 compact telemetry unit with conformal antenna for missile
12 new gen target acquisition sight with FPA based sight (thermal), CCD sight (day) and LRF
13 NAMICA tracked
14 stabilised sight for day and night plus heliborne launcher

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more later

symontk
BRFite
Posts: 900
Joined: 01 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby symontk » 16 Dec 2013 19:45

for the mast launched Nag, can it added to Arjun mk3?

It can save space for CLGM and also Shoulder launched missles


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