Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jan 2013 12:05

^^Fallen in love with the K-15 launch video and the SDRE voices in it!!

Been watching it over and over and over since yesterday!

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 29 Jan 2013 12:19

Kakarat wrote:VIDEO: K-15 SLBM Test Fired

Since I have been one to complain when cameramen have struggled to keep pace with the Prahaar and Shaurya in the past, I must compliment the person responsible for this footage. This is such a pleasure to watch.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 29 Jan 2013 12:33

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 29 Jan 2013 12:48

Not a cameraman. Electrooptical tracker most probably.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 29 Jan 2013 12:53

Most probably EOTS

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2013 13:07

K4 will probably be a ballistic missile that will release RVs capable of manouvering like the topol-M has today. its third and second stages might also follow a depressed trajectory to hide below the radar horizon longer.
to achieve all this in a compact pkg and carry more mission payload - the lighter the better, so perhaps a composite 1st stage will be tested out.

the K15 could be made a carrier killer or awacs/tanker killer with suitable sensors and targeting inputs. but I dont think any plans exist for it - yet.

vina · Post by **vina** » 29 Jan 2013 14:02

ramana wrote:Vina, No fins or vanes on the booster. However guidance has to be turned on atleast a few minutes (~2mins) before launch.

http://im.rediff.com/news/2013/jan/29ss4.jpg

Check out the Shourya pic someone has linked to inline in a previous post . It does look like there are two sets of fins, one on the booster, another on the missile. I suspect the booster vanes are active underwater as well to stabilize the missile.

If not, the missile will emerge at extreme angles from the water like the Polaris missle and the missile has to right itself..

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 29 Jan 2013 14:19

ramana wrote:dinesha, Can you go frame-by-frame and figure out the height above sealevel when the booster ignites and the precise time?

Looks like around 3 secs? Cap gets ejected soon after (~5 sec).

Awesome. So the vehicle ignites the booster once its a safe height above sea level. Note its a straight up flight and no coning manouver to avoid fallback fratricide.

K-15 Booster Ejection and FS Engine Startup frame by frame..
CLICK

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jan 2013 14:29

dinesha wrote:
K-15 Booster Ejection and FS Engine Startup frame by frame..
CLICK

Many thanks for taking the trouble. The motor lights in the 16th frame after the surface breaks. The whole missile is out of the water in about 10-11 frames

How many frames per sec is the video?

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 29 Jan 2013 15:30

^^^ 25fps... so the engine starts up at around 0.60-0.65 seconds after the surface breakup..

If K-15 is 10 meter tall then it's FS Engine fires at about equal height at about 10 meter above sea level as number of pixels are more or less equal..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jan 2013 16:43

dinesha wrote:^^^ 25fps... so the engine starts up at around 0.60-0.65 seconds after the surface breakup..

If K-15 is 10 meter tall then it's FS Engine fires at about equal height at about 10 meter above sea level as number of pixels are more or less equal..

Yes and the missile emerges from the water at over 20 meters per sec and that is about 72 kmph/38 knots

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Jan 2013 19:19

Jan 28, 2013 :: India Presses Israel on Joint Missile Project

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 29 Jan 2013 19:34

NRao wrote:Jan 28, 2013 :: India Presses Israel on Joint Missile Project

Not sure of about some of the claims in the article, they border on Paki proganda

Israel also has helped Indian scientists develop the homemade Prithvi air defense ballistic missile system. Though no formal agreement has been signed, DRDO and Israel are developing India’s land attack missile project, including a land attack cruise missile.

Do we have Python V and which FIghters is it Intergrated with?

Last year, the Air Force bought the Israeli Derby medium-range active radar seeker air-to-air missile, made by Rafael, to be mounted on the homemade Light Combat Aircraft, which the DRDO is developing. Earlier, the Air Force had purchased Israeli Python-5 air-to-air missile systems.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2013 20:39

Singha wrote:I think it was stroke of luck we already had the snorting-bull nosecap system working in brahmos, so reused in Shourya and K15.

Shourya may not strictly need it but probably reused to keep it common.

We should here after name it "Singha Nose Cap"!

BTW on the Brahmos it allows the vehicle to turn (Pitch or Yaw) in the longitudinal axis and acts as "ahead steering" gizmo.
In the B05 it acts a protective cap.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2013 20:40

yay!!!! shake your legs firang ladies!

In contrast to conventional ballistic missiles that cannot correct their course midway, the Shaurya is an intelligent missile. Onboard navigation computers kick in near the target, guiding the missile to the target and eliminating errors that inevitably creep in during its turbulent journey.

“I would say the Shaurya is a hybrid propulsion missile”

and please note the precursors to k4.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19886

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2013 20:53

Dinesha, Thanks a lot. As shiv asked time stamp would be nice but we get the picture from the frame rate. So B05 ignites the booster ~10m or 33 feet above sea surface. That should give enough depth margin for the underwater sub. Most likely a combination of acceleration, timer, height parameters initiate the booster. Looks like a surefire mechanism to initiate it.

Shiv, The speed of ~40 knots makes it like a torpedo. Recall the NSTL in Vizag has the largest towing tank in Asia. Most likely this vehicle was proofed/demoed there before actual trials.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2013 21:43

O2/water sensor could also play part to ignite the booster in addition to precision altimeter.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2013 22:13

vina, The slant takeoff is due to cross flow. The vehicle tilts when there is a high undercurrent.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 29 Jan 2013 22:18

IA is to test an upgraded version of Pinaka MBRL at Chandipur on the Sea, more details awaited. This variant of Pinaka is to be inducted into the IA later this year... All the best..

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2013 22:22

any idea on the distance between those two surface vessels?

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 29 Jan 2013 22:33

Comment on Utube from Shiv Errors video:

There's no way that's Indian. They cant even do that on land. More likely the Pentagon generating FEAR the world over.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 29 Jan 2013 22:44

^^^ Guess that person just crawled out of a rock after realizing the world did not end on 12/21/12.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 29 Jan 2013 23:30

Very impressive. It will change many equations, just as did the Pokharan blasts.

It will also impinge on Pakistan`s relationship with India. This is a statement to its mentor: Dont **** with India. The test is a ticket to the UN security council, once 10% growth resumes.

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 29 Jan 2013 23:58

AbhiJ wrote:Comment on Utube from Shiv Errors video:

There's no way that's Indian. They cant even do that on land. More likely the Pentagon generating FEAR the world over.

agreed.. I saw obama cheering among the crowd in the video.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jan 2013 00:01

which is the video you all are talking about?

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 30 Jan 2013 00:23

Moment before ignition..

SaiK wrote:which is the video you all are talking about?

K-15 Missile launch video on youtube posted by Shiv.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Jan 2013 01:23

As a late latif on this thread, I just wanted to chime in as well to congratulate DRDO on the SLBM launch - that's a fantastic video!

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 30 Jan 2013 01:27

Looks like the B05 has a ceramic nosecone needed for thermal loads, and another significant aspect is Arihant gets to stay at 50m depth even when firing these missiles

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jan 2013 02:40

q, (answer only if it is generic enough): what is the needed depth to stay in comm channels, enough to receive commands from hq? ignoring the possible buoy based route.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Jan 2013 03:23

Didn't see this posted earlier ...

Cannon launched laser-guided missile test today

The DRDO is readying to carry out a trial of an advanced version of cannon launched laser-guided missile (CLGM) from a defence base off the Odisha coast on Monday.

A reliable source said the missile would be test-fired from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur-on-sea. Preparation for the mission is near complete. A special launcher has been set up at the launching complex here for the scheduled test.
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The missile has been developed by the Aeronautical Development Establishment at Bangalore and is a new generation anti-tank missile. It can neutralise any target in 3 km to 5 km range. It is in fact an all terrain missile that can be used by the army, navy and air force.

Sources said the missile will equip the Arjun MK-2 and MK-1 tanks. This missile has bigger warhead and little slower than original 105-mm Laser Homing Attack or Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) from Israel.

“The CLGM uses a laser of a specific frequency bandwidth to locate the target. The laser creates a heat signature on the target. The missile recognises it and homes in on it even if the target is moving,” said a defence scientist.
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The ADE has developed the missile with global positioning system technology. A team of officials of the ADE has arrived here for the test. Last week, at least four rounds of laser-guided bombs were successfully tested from the test range.

India test fires cannon launched laser-guided missile

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Monday conducted the tests of an advanced version of Cannon-launched Laser Guided Missile (CLGM) from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off the Odisha coast.

Altogether three rounds of the missile were test-fired from a specially built launcher at the launching complex-II of Chandipur based test range. A defence official said the mission was successful as the missile perfectly destroyed the targets as expected.

“The tests were conducted in between 3.30 pm to 4.30 pm during low tide period. There will be one more round of test on Tuesday. All the data have been collected and would be evaluated after the completion of the mission,” he said.
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pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 30 Jan 2013 03:32

SaiK wrote:q, (answer only if it is generic enough): what is the needed depth to stay in comm channels, enough to receive commands from hq? ignoring the possible buoy based route.

US Navy killed many Dolphins using VLW radio communication and VLF communications are used.

The sub can stay under feet upto 1000 feet and recieve the signals

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 30 Jan 2013 04:19

X-posting from the LCH thread, where this was being discussed by Sancho and Indranil. Btw, CLGM also goes by the moniker SAMHO - Chorgupta's blog has the DRDO brochure pictures of it with specs. My 2 cents below:

***************

The CLGM/SAMHO developments seem to have gone on under the radar. Never seen much news about them except an occasional mention here or there.

CLGM seems to be a reverse engineered version of Lahat. More power to DRDO! Our MBTs can hit the other guy before he can even see us. Plus it looks like a modular design that can be fitted onto different platforms. This baby has a lot of potential. A 105mm diameter (like Lahat) would have made this even more versatile!

Its pretty light-weight at 18.5 Kgs. Shaving down 5 more Kgs + an IIR seeker borrowed from Nag will get us a man-portable ATGM.

On a different note, Javelin is an ~12 Kg missile but with a 8.5 Kg warhead, per Wiki

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Jan 2013 05:24

putnanja wrote:Didn't see this posted earlier ...
Cannon launched laser-guided missile test today
India test fires cannon launched laser-guided missile

Jai Ho SAMHO! This is a great development. Being a desi aero-jingo, I am starting to love ADE.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 30 Jan 2013 09:53

When it rains, it pours. The following has happened in the last week:

a) K-15 launch
b) CLGM testing
c) LGB testing (likely Sudarshan) reported by Rout
d) Coming up - Pinaka new version testing

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 30 Jan 2013 10:03

Yesterday, pinaka 2 has tested, under the logistic support by PEX. Next text will be on coming tuesday.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 10:56

Aditya_V wrote:
NRao wrote:Jan 28, 2013 :: India Presses Israel on Joint Missile Project
Not sure of about some of the claims in the article, they border on Paki proganda
Israel also has helped Indian scientists develop the homemade Prithvi air defense ballistic missile system.

I think the reference there was to the LRTR.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2013 11:02

next couple yrs we should see khan/israeli/french cos make a beeline for hyd/blr to sell bits and pieces of useful gear for this wide range of missiles and munitions. once people demonstrate capability to build entire systems, the hidden sanctions are relaxed on subsystems to atleast make some money off the horse that escaped the stable...before even those subsystems are productionized inhouse. this also gives the qa khan some visibility and 'contacts' to see which direction we are sailing

so expect tempting offers of sales & local manufacture in all forms of electro optics, sensors, small radars, high energy propellants, high precision production machinery, testing infra, "consultancy" on hard problems, ..... so far this biryani was eaten by french and israeli cos, but given our huge needs khan would want his share.

I would not be surprised to see raytheon propose a deal to deploy its MMW sensors on SFW submunitions dropped off by Nirbhay

(Septimus is going to luv that)

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Jan 2013 11:06

Prem Kumar wrote:When it rains, it pours. The following has happened in the last week:

a) K-15 launch
b) CLGM testing
c) LGB testing (likely Sudarshan) reported by Rout
d) Coming up - Pinaka new version testing

e) Nirbhay

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Jan 2013 11:29

K-15 SLBM is a beast loaded with gen-next tech: Scientists

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Sources in the Missile Complex tell Express that K-15 was launched from an underwater vehicle with an approximate depth of 50 meters. But, what adds more teeth to the killer missile is the array of gen-text technologies that are embedded onboard, a majority of features till kept under wraps. “The medium range missile, with a capacity to be launched from multiple platforms has so far undergone many trials. It is primarily employed against land targets. The missile is incorporated with very-high accuracy navigation systems with completely different and specific schemes, that can steer the vehicle towards the target with single-digit accuracy,” sources said.
The scientists have designed special alignment techniques with most modern algorithms which are specific to underwater missions. “We have used most modern computing and actuating systems for the missile. It has a two-stage booster, with one being employed under water and the other above the surface. The underwater dynamics are totally different from the aerodynamic environment. Here the hydro-dynamics come into picture and you got to take into account factors like water pressure, wave speed, its direction and many more,” sources said.
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“We will have more number of trials on the naval platform, but parallely the missile will get into the production mode. Once the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) goes live next year, all our future missions will have pin-point navigation support,” sources said.
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Speaking to Express from Hyderabad, Defence Research Development Laboratory (DRDL) Director and K-15 Programme Director A K Chakrabarty said his team had a challenging job on hand. “When you execute underwater missions, the rules of the game changes. While launching the missile (from a submarine) nothing should happen to the platform, considering it's a manned one. Hence, it was a huge challenge to our designers,” Chakrabarty said.
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Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 30 Jan 2013 11:30

Prem Kumar wrote:CLGM seems to be a reverse engineered version of Lahat. More power to DRDO! Our MBTs can hit the other guy before he can even see us. Plus it looks like a modular design that can be fitted onto different platforms. This baby has a lot of potential. A 105mm diameter (like Lahat) would have made this even more versatile!

You can say it is a cross between LAHAT and Kornet. CLGM is/will be as versatile as LAHAT.

BTW, Kornet is man portable. CLGM can be launched from tripod( as per the exhibit).