Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

vina · Post by **vina** » 28 Jan 2013 09:48

suryag wrote:SagarAg ji what if the missile indeed travels in the water horizontally before it rises out of water?

No torpedo tube will be that long to be able to fire a K-15/K4 class missile. Firing harpoons/exocet out of the torpedo tubes and them rising to the surface in their containers is fine. But this is too big and heavy and space horizontally is a premium. So this is carried vertically and rises vertically.

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Jan 2013 10:18

thats what we called "jugaad", now we have multirole submarine:SSGN/SSN/SSBN.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2013 10:27

next milestone will be K15 launch from arihant surely within 2-3 months.

hope they release the RV exploding video as was done for A5.

and inshallah pontoon test of K4 this yr

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 28 Jan 2013 10:29

I don't think that within 2-3 months it is going to pop out of Arihant most probably towards the end of the year or first quarter of the next, K4 test will take some more time 2015-16.

vina · Post by **vina** » 28 Jan 2013 10:32

hope they release the RV exploding video as was done for A5.

Where is it ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Jan 2013 10:43

with IN. I doubt they will throw it open to public. more like a proximity blew just few feet above water per discussion here post a5 analysis. [flash of light]

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2013 10:46

the video was released and extensively discussed in BR itself! est of when the charge blew varied from 2km to 500m ASL...it was a night scene in the ocean from the monitoring ship and clearly showed the plunging RV which exploded a test charge in the air.

till date other than brahmos, A5 terminal stage video is the only one of indian missiles released.

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 28 Jan 2013 11:19

sum wrote:Found this comment in a article on SLBM in ToI:

Col. (retd) B.S. Chibh (Pathankote)
31 Jul, 2012 09:45 PM
No country tells the other what they have. AGNI-5 is an old missile so is the SLBM. These are being demonstrated from the production batches. AGNI-6 and MRVs are long ready.
Wonder how authentic this is

As I mentioned above Bo5 is in production since 2011 end.

When arihant will be a part of IN it will be pre-loaded with SLBMs from day 1 (and hopefully that is about to happen very soon).

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Jan 2013 11:21

^^ So, if the Col's comment is correct, A-6 and MIRVs are also a done deal and just waiting to be revealed?

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 28 Jan 2013 11:31

Some govt agency must put the news in the open space first. Only than it can be discussed.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 28 Jan 2013 11:41

sum wrote:Found this comment in a article on SLBM in ToI:

Col. (retd) B.S. Chibh (Pathankote)
31 Jul, 2012 09:45 PM
No country tells the other what they have. AGNI-5 is an old missile so is the SLBM. These are being demonstrated from the production batches. AGNI-6 and MRVs are long ready.
Wonder how authentic this is

Boreas wrote: As I mentioned above Bo5 is in production since 2011 end.

When arihant will be a part of IN it will be pre-loaded with SLBMs from day 1 (and hopefully that is about to happen very soon).

The Hindu carried article on the production of k-15 long back. So nothing new. A-5 as a system was ready from the first test. MIRV - undergoing testing.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 28 Jan 2013 11:51

Courtesy the Sunday launch of the K-15, BR should issue a DDM alert!

1. We have a new class of missile as per the DDM - the underwater ballistic missile.

2. DDM not carrying their earlier misinformation about the K-15 being a hybrid missile - which intrepid experts like Shukla have interpreted in the past as DRDO sources claiming that the K-15 is not a ballistic missile.

3. Claims of a nuclear triad having been complete "now" when there is a TV interview of Arun Prakash from his time as Chief when he had confirmed that we had sea-borne means of nuclear weapons delivery.

4. Other experts like Unnithan automatically assuming that the Nirbhay will be a nuclear weapon that will boost second strike capability when cruise missiles tend to be used for strategic non-nuke missions

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 28 Jan 2013 11:56

sum wrote:
SagarAg wrote:Wow...just Wow Finally a video of the secretive K-X project of Indian Missiles. I don't know how many times I have watched the video of the missile coming out of the water. Gives me goosebumps everytime . Stupendofantabuloslyfantistical achievement by our esteemed DRDO scientists. Take a bow DRDO champions for this truly astonishing feat. As it is rightly put in the missile video "Missile is visible and out"
^^ +1.

Had 3 wet dreams since last 3-4 years when news of all these projects were released:

1. See a video of Desi SLBM shooting out of the water
2. See video of Desi MIRV illuminating night sky like the Minuteman video over Hawaii islands.
3. Video of Arihant suddenly prowling out of the water alongside the Chakra and firing a few missiles.

1 has been fulfilled and have been continuously looping the same again and again and the goosebumps just refuse to die down!

True saar. It has been in the dreams for long years not only for jingoes like us who watched other SLBMs emerging from water like Kurma Avatar with awe-struck feelings but also for those who donned khaki uniforms as well as white apron and as well as those in mufti. It is like expecting Lord Vishnu to make an avatar on earth. Such a long but glorious wait. As we can see the missile Director is in tears, it says so more perfectly what it was like to witness such a momentous occasion.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Jan 2013 12:00

Boreas wrote:Some govt agency must put the news in the open space first. Only than it can be discussed.

Will happen when we intend to join as the 6th element to N squad/security council. Till then, be trigger happy with a concealed smile.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jan 2013 12:22

Singha wrote:and inshallah pontoon test of K4 this yr

If things have been gong well, K-4 should see the next flight within a few months.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 28 Jan 2013 12:33

^^

.. khaki uniforms ..

Do you mean Indian Police or Papi Army?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 28 Jan 2013 12:38

Picklu wrote:^^
.. khaki uniforms ..
Do you mean Indian Police or Papi Army?

However, the name is sometimes also used to describe a drab green color. In the mid-twentieth century as many Western militaries adopted an olive drab instead of the older, more brownish khaki, the two color names became associated with each other. In French, and German, for example, "khaki" refers to a much darker olive drab-style military green.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2013 13:08

SSridhar wrote:
Singha wrote:and inshallah pontoon test of K4 this yr
If things have been gong well, K-4 should see the next flight within a few months.

you meant 'first' not 'next' right?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jan 2013 13:11

No, I meant 'next'. It had been reported earlier that there was one test in 2010. It was probably not from a submerged pontoon.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Jan 2013 13:38

^^ Oho, even the K-4 has been testfired already?

nits · Post by **nits** » 28 Jan 2013 13:48

5 things you need to know about K-15, India’s underwater ballistic missile - Courtsey - IDRW

*The medium range ballistic missile has a strike range of around 1500 kilometres.

* It is a submarine-launched ballistic missile capable of being launched from some submarines. Modern variants usually deliver multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles each of which carries a nuclear warhead and allows a single launched missile to strike several targets.

*K-15 is part of the family of underwater missiles being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation for the Indian strategic forces’ underwater platforms.

*This missile will help India to achieve the capability of launching nuclear warheads from underwater facilities.

*US, France, Russia and China are the only other countries that have this type of missile capability.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 28 Jan 2013 14:13

Singha wrote:
till date other than brahmos, A5 terminal stage video is the only one of indian missiles released.

saar i believe it was A1 terminal Phase video.

marimuthu · Post by **marimuthu** » 28 Jan 2013 14:30

^^
Are we talking about this

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Jan 2013 14:48

Astra BVR
First K-15 and now this, only thing is left for now is the successfull trial of Nirbhay of 1000Km range, then we can say nice start of spring.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jan 2013 15:00

A great foundation was laid by the IGMDP.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2013 15:10

yes marimuthu I was mistaken.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 28 Jan 2013 15:18

nash wrote:Astra BVR
First K-15 and now this, only thing is left for now is the successfull trial of Nirbhay of 1000Km range, then we can say nice start of spring.

Is that so?

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 28 Jan 2013 15:32

SSridhar wrote:No, I meant 'next'. It had been reported earlier that there was one test in 2010. It was probably not from a submerged pontoon.

SS Garu, as per Livefist, it was a "cold launch" involving successful test of k-4 gas-booster from underwater pontoon. Rocket motors (if any) were most probably not fired after successful "breach of surface".

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 28 Jan 2013 15:48

I think the inflection point was somewhere around 2006-2008 when suddenly we'd all sorts of new missiles cropping up, and DRDO has been unstoppable since then.

The inflection point was VK Saraswat.

We all know to get success in 2006, effort for that should have started much earlier.

In my opinion the inflection point is a series of events happened in 80s and in 90s. Some of them are Chinese Stand off, Pakistan Nuclear Blackmail, Chinese Missile transfer to Pak, Pak testing of Ghauri missile etc and Kargil war. Kargil war removed all the scant opposition if any from the establishment.

During this period, Kalam was the head of DRDL as well as DRDO. It was he who started all these projects or better to put it as a guiding force behind these projects. Even today, Kalam insisted on developing Mother missile delivering sub-munition. He was on to this theme for several years.

We know, as revealed by India Today, in the name K-15, the letter K denotes Kalam. Old timers might be aware that Brahmos was referred as PJ-10. Do we know what PJ stands for? Letter P and J are the initials of Kalam. Just as PJ-10, media referred to various PJs, such PJ-02, PJ-08 etc. Such is the inspiration of Kalam behind all these projects.

I think nothing can better describe the role of Kalam in this occasion than the parting words of Mr Chakrabarty

Mr Chakrabarty says he has learnt the art of missile making by the hands of India's original missile man, former President APJ Abdul Kalam. He also saluted the leadership and team spirit which was instilled in the missile complex of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) by Mr Kalam.

and further on the missile and role of Chakrabarty,

This system has been in the making for the last 20 years and Sunday's launch was the fourteenth consecutively successful launch of this unique system. The missile has been designed and perfected by AK Chakrabarty, the Director of the Defence Research and Development Laboratory, Hyderabad, which is the mother facility for India's Integrated Missile Development Programme. This launch was particularly poignant for Mr Chakrabarty as he has been involved with this project since its very inception, and now within a few hours of the last developmental launch, he is retiring after many decades of glorious service to the nation.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 28 Jan 2013 16:20

K-15/ Sagarika / Shaurya can hit targets 1600-1700km away with a light Mk-4 warhead, with mk-5 and mk-6 warheads too it can hit targets 1200km+ away. The 750KM range is with a full-up 1 ton of Conventional HE I think.

http://www.indiaresearch.org/Shourya_Missile.pdf

I think with a light 100kg long range anti radiation seeker warhead, it should be able to hit targets 2000km, it is an ideal weapon for busting of long range air survaillance and air defence radars as well as over the horizon radars.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 28 Jan 2013 17:48

I have cropped and slowed the K-15 Launch video for jingos to view the booster ejection and stage separation at slow speed

Missile ejection at 1/2 the original speed..

Stage Seperation at 1/8 the original speed..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jan 2013 17:56

Narad wrote:SS Garu, as per Livefist, it was a "cold launch" involving successful test of k-4 gas-booster from underwater pontoon. Rocket motors (if any) were most probably not fired after successful "breach of surface".

Narad, thanks for the info.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 28 Jan 2013 19:15

dinesha wrote:I have cropped and slowed the K-15 Launch video for jingos to view the booster ejection and stage separation at slow speed

Thanks a lot. But i still can;t figure out at want point after coming out from water the booster gets ignited

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2013 20:07

if the missile is 10m long, the booster seems to have fired when the base is 10m out of the water

that seems to be a common thing going by this trident c4 launch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tFGzDpDJs, the missile is heavier and the thrust takes a couple secs to kick in while the missile is almost stationary and then it takes off....K15 being lighter and sleeker is faster out of the gate.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 28 Jan 2013 20:44

^^^^^^^^^^
I agree .
Actually have always seen videos of Russian and US ICBM coming out of water and then the big boosters lighting up , so was expecting something of similar effect

, but this will do for the time being , until the K4 launch video is available

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2013 21:02

my favourite launch video is the silo launch of black painted SS-18 satan
its like a big 200t PSLV sized dog with the meat and attitude to tear apart half a country on its own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUM3cyUPlJ8

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 28 Jan 2013 21:32

Prime Minister's Facebook page:

India test fires ballistic missile from underwater platform

India is only the fifth country to have such a missile -- the other four are the United States, Russia, France and China.

K-5 ballistic missile, which is also known as BO5, has been developed by DRDO's Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL).

More than 10 trials of the missile have been performed earlier. Today's was the last development trial of K-5.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jan 2013 21:42

I wonder if any of these trials are done when the underwater pantoon is moving at say 5-10knots. I have a feeling that it is the case. wouldn't it be the closest they can do in the simulated tests?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 28 Jan 2013 21:45

what are those 2 platforms , they seems to be very close to the launch

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Jan 2013 21:50

Most probably a stationary launch even though underwater.. however one can't rule out minor movements based on water currents. Any data available as to launching a SLBM at 30 knots and issues? If it all, it should be with the latch mechanisms.. now it all depends on the design to tackle any force that needs to be countered while in the move, as the launch itself once triggered should not take more than a second to release the ballistic out of the sub hull.