Artillery: News & Discussion

Snehashis
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Snehashis » 18 Nov 2018 12:28

AFAIK Kalyani were denied from using the testing range here so they tested it at US. Also to be noted it is a modern variant of the gun design they bought from Europe (can't recall which country atm) and not to be mixed up with ATAGS.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Paul » 18 Nov 2018 19:14

Austria?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 18 Nov 2018 19:30

GC-45/Canada to Voest Alpine-Noricum/Austria to Kalyani/India.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2018 22:16

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 4469742592 ---> Indian Army K-9 VAJRA-T Self Propelled Howitzer. It can fire its shells in Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact mode. It fires three shells in under 15 seconds—1 shell every 5 seconds—each in different trajectories so that all of the shells will arrive on their target together.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2018 22:19

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 5101383680 ---> New Artillery Guns of Indian Army: M777 Ultra Light Howitzer and K-9 Vajra-T Self Propelled Howitzer. Both are the first new guns for Artillery Core of Indian Army since the infamous Bofors Scandal which left our artillery capabilities in limbo.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 26 Dec 2018 10:16



Lots of good news on Dhanush and Sarang.
Induction in Feb 2019 by Modiji.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2019 23:46

Indian artillery on an upward trajectory, to become modern and more deadly
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... y/1441340/

January 12, 2019

By Lt Gen Anil Ahuja (Retd) - a former Deputy Chief of Integrated defence Staff (Policy Planning and Force development) and Senior Colone Commandant of Regiment of Artillery.

To every discerning Indian, even a mention of the two-decade-old Kargil conflict evokes memories of the fire and fury unleashed by Artillery.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Jan 2019 03:55

X-Post:

jaysimha wrote:OFB May -June 2018 Report

ofb news letter may-july 2018.


Pages 4- 5 have a detailed history of the Dhanush development and trials. Wish it was on a Project type schedule also.
It tells all the events and milestone dates achieved And total number of rounds fired to qualify the gun.

Wish they talked about the barrel burst, and the muzzle strikes to add more credibility to the account and shows lessons learned.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Jan 2019 15:29

Good discussion on the K-9 Thunder SP gun on Rajya Sabha TC on the "Security Scan" feature..Range from 28 to 38 km.Meant for the Southern Strike Corps, tracks for the desert.Other strike corps perhaps later.

Lt.Gen.Saxena.First time a deal with SoKo and L& T winning a global tender.
Multiple round simultaneous effect- sev. rounds landing simultaneously. Capability to build them in India great for the future as only 10 are being imported out of the first order of 100.

Ajay Bannerjee.Tribune.South of Sutlej ops. North of the river too riverine. More needed for this sector.
Indig. tech for Dhanush and ATAGS where we hold the tech. and that is where we have great promise.

Lt.Gen.Saxena.Huge borders requiring sev. thousands of types of arty.ATAGS " flagbearer" of the country. Sev.cos. joining together for key components unique.2000 guns + reqd.
Dhanush.We modified the range. As good as M-177. 145 ULH being acquired for the mountains. Pvt. sector collaboration in production.

Maj.Gen.Chakravarthy. Variety of terrain. Still areas where arty., hasn't reached due to no roads. NEast. K-9 toughest becos of the " make in India" goal. SoKo said no way over the ammo. But we've done it tx. to L&T.

Gen.Saxena. ATAGS holds the world record for range 48km+.



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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby abhik » 20 Jan 2019 18:50

Rishi_Tri wrote:https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1086540945103872000

Is the "seat-belt" thing Modi is wearing standard?
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2019 19:54

I dont think so. it ensures he would not be hurt if lost footing on seat below.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 05 Feb 2019 23:33

That is the new Self Propelled Gun - K9 Vajra.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 3374986241 ---> Heading into Rajasthan when I see this behemoth being trailered to the desert, presumably headed to the range.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby gaurav.p » 07 Feb 2019 19:33

K9 and ULH look good for modernization. But what is the status of dhanush and atags?

Want to know, how K9 and ULH get inducted with such speed (inspite of barrel bursts) compared to local guns?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 08 Feb 2019 02:12

Induction of new artillery guns shows promise for indigenous defence firms
By Ajai Shukla
Pune
Business Standard, 6th Feb 19

For the third year running, new artillery guns have featured in the Republic Day parade, signalling that the army’s debilitating shortfall of modern artillery guns – the most effective battlefield weapon since the American Civil War – could soon be alleviated.

The parade saw the debut of two new artillery guns. One is the Korean-origin K-9 Thunder self-propelled gun, a 155 millimetre (mm), 52-calibre gun that Larsen & Toubro (L&T) is building under licence in their Talegaon plant, near Pune. These guns are mounted on tracked vehicles to keep pace with fast-moving tanks of the strike corps, providing uninterrupted fire support even as armoured spearheads move deep into enemy territory.

Just 100 K-9 Thunder guns are on order, enough only for one Indian strike corps. With three Indian strike corps awaiting modern self-propelled guns; the order to L&T could well be trebled.

Also making its Republic Day debut this year was the M777 ultralight howitzer (ULH) – a 155 mm, 39 calibre gun, built largely of titanium, that is light and manoeuvrable enough for the mountain borders. BAE Systems Inc. has an order for 145 M777 guns but, given the need to equip four recently raised mountain divisions, this order, too, could be doubled or more.

Meanwhile, the army’s most crucial new gun – the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) – made its debut in the 2017 parade. The army could eventually induct over 1,500 of these powerful, 155 mm, 52 calibre towed guns, to replace the old, lighter, shorter-range, less destructive 130 mm and 105 mm guns that has largely comprised the army’s arsenal for several decades.

For now, however, the ministry of defence (MoD) has ordered just 10 ATAGS howitzers, shared between the two firms developing the gun – Kalyani Group and Tata Power SED. The MoD has cleared an initial order for 150 guns, subject to successful trials. The lowest bidder will get to build 107 guns, while the more expensive bidder will build the remaining 43, at the lowest bidder’s price.

Using this order as a springboard into artillery production, the Pune-based Kalyani Group has invested Rs 500-600 crore into gun fabrication facilities. Group chairman, Baba Kalyani, who had earlier had earlier bought and transported to Pune an entire factory from Austrian gun-manufacturer, RUAG, told Business Standardhe has recently bought another facility from the UK.

“We have completed the acquisition of a BAE Systems facility in Barrow-in-Furness, UK, which is a submarine and artillery plant,” stated Kalyani.

Kalyani, who makes no secret of his ambition to be the Krupp of India, has tasked his engineers to build various guns in order to develop design and fabrication skills. Besides the on-going ATAGS project, Kalyani Group has already developed six other types of guns.

“These include two 155 mm guns – called the Bharat-52 and Bharat-45. We have also mounted a lighter 105 mm gun on a truck. We have built three ultralight howitzers – one of titanium, another called the Hawkeye ULH, and finally a 155 mm, 39 calibre, all-steel ULH”, says Kalyani.

One of these came after army chief, General Bipin Rawat, on a visit to Kalyani Group, wondered whether it would be feasible to mount the all-steel ULH on a truck, for mobility in mountainous terrain.

Kalyani says he has met Rawat’s request by integrating a 6.8-tonne, all-steel ULH onto a 7.5-tonne Ashok Leyland carrier. By March, it will be offered to the army and could go into testing.

Kalyani Group is also pitching in the ULH segment, having developed an all-titanium ULH that, at 4.8 tonnes, is only marginally heavier than the 4.5-tonne M777. Kalyani claims this gun would become lighter as development proceeds.


Both Kalyani Group and Tata Power SED officials complain the Rs 15 crore the MoD is paying for each ATAGS will not even cover manufacturing costs. But they remain in the project in the expectation of large orders ahead.

Meanwhile, the MoD is paying the OFB more generously – Rs 14 crore for each 155 mm, 45 calibre Dhanush howitzers it is manufacturing, even though that gun is smaller and less complex than the ATAGS. The OFB developed the Dhanush from the technology blueprints provided by Bofors in 1986, and is now building 114 guns for the army.

“After decades, there is movement on multiple fronts in artillery development. Now let us see how quickly we can get these guns into service,” says a senior army planner who deals with equipment induction.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Feb 2019 03:46

Its upto the army to push the babus at mod hard and make sure huge numbers get ordered asap and inducted

A never ending arjunish trials cycle / iaf style change request neurological issue just opens the door for foreign dalals to crawl in again

The m777-52 is already making noises

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Feb 2019 16:20

^^ will it be right to assume
1. that IA won't have to create new training or operating procedures for these guns? basically existing ones should suffice perhaps only tables need to be updated.
2. The ammo is standardized and wont have to place some stock orders later on.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 08 Feb 2019 17:40

I am concerned about the future of atags. As it has significant Pvt sector participation and with INC going full retard. I fear for the armed forces.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 08 Feb 2019 18:20

Indranil wrote:Induction of new artillery guns shows promise for indigenous defence firms
By Ajai Shukla
Pune
Business Standard, 6th Feb 19


“We have completed the acquisition of a BAE Systems facility in Barrow-in-Furness, UK, which is a submarine and artillery plant,” stated Kalyani.



I cannot find any reference to this claim here. This facility makes N-powered Submarines.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Feb 2019 19:39

JayS wrote:I cannot find any reference to this claim here. This facility makes N-powered Submarines.


India to buy 145 artillery guns from BAE Systems
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/india-b ... e-systems/

The M777 is manufactured by BAE Systems’ Global Combat Systems division. Prime contract management is based in Barrow-in-Furness in the UK as well as manufacture and assembly of the titanium structures and associated recoil components. Final integration and testing of the weapon is undertaken at BAE’s facility in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.


The M777 began as the Ultralight-weight Field Howitzer, developed by VSEL’s armaments division in Barrow-in-Furness, United Kingdom. This company was bought by BAE which ended up responsible for design, construction and assembly (through its US-based, BAE Systems Land and Armaments group). The M777 uses about 70% US-built parts including the gun barrel manufactured at the Watervliet Arsenal.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 08 Feb 2019 19:51

^^ So, Kalyani Group acquired this facility which makes M777 components..? The way its written gives an impression that the entire marine division is taken over.

Also the link you gave now says 120 guns to be assembled in India. Whos gonna do that..??

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Feb 2019 19:57

The Kalyan’s acquisition of Barrow is DDM to me. But a majority of the M777 guns will be assembled in India. Let me dig up an official source on this. Unless someone beats me to it :)

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Feb 2019 20:13

Atags will likely be asked to lose 3 tons weight citing weak border area roads

Ofb unions will wail they are to have monopoly on defence products

Congis will ask why kalyani should make profit when farmers starve and allege its a fixup by modi

Unless nda returns to power there is no hope of atags entering service

Baki dalals will always push imports

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby darshhan » 08 Feb 2019 20:38

Rakesh wrote:The Kalyan’s acquisition of Barrow is DDM to me. But a majority of the M777 guns will be assembled in India. Let me dig up an official source on this. Unless someone beats me to it :)


Mahindra if I recall correctly

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Feb 2019 21:24

Darshhan beat me to it :)

Mahindra Defence is assembling the guns in India.

And as you already know JayS, for our DDM....Manufacture & Transfer of Technology ( :lol: ) = Assembly / Screwdrivergiri.

BAE Systems down-selects Mahindra for proposed ultra-lightweight Howitzer Assembly Integration and Test
https://www.mahindra.com/news-room/pres ... N-AND-TEST

BAE Systems has down-selected Mahindra as its business partner for the proposed in-country Assembly, Integration & Test (AIT) facility for the M777 Ultra Lightweight Howitzer.


Dr. Joe Senftle, Vice President & General Manager, Weapon Systems, BAE Systems Inc., "As a founding partner of defence manufacturing in India, BAE Systems is pleased to partner with Mahindra on our offer to develop an Assembly, Integration and Test facility in India. The facility is a fundamental part of the M777 production line. A domestic Assembly, Integration and Test facility will enable the Indian Army to access maintenance, spares and support for the M777 locally. We will continue to support the two Governments to progress to contract agreement so that we may begin the process of ‘Make in India’ for M777."

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 08 Feb 2019 22:24

Singha wrote:Atags will likely be asked to lose 3 tons weight citing weak border area roads

Ofb unions will wail they are to have monopoly on defence products

Congis will ask why kalyani should make profit when farmers starve and allege its a fixup by modi

Unless nda returns to power there is no hope of atags entering service

Baki dalals will always push imports


It should be "easy" for ATAGS to lose at least some weight using alloy wheels. The trails could be made of Aluminum reducing much more. Its doable, but will definitely delay the project. Three years worth of production should be ordered with the first version of the gun, followed by the lighter gun and a midlife refit.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 08 Feb 2019 23:10

Think it was Baba kalyani who said to reducce weight they'll need to add more Ti and that will drive up costs and already they're not being paid even construction costs for the atags samples they were producing.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Feb 2019 23:21

and even the Ti metal pieces are imported as we lack local raw materials.

it will be a gold plated maybach which will then be declared unaffordable once it has lost steel and got Ti chassis.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 09 Feb 2019 02:56

The key word being IF....

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1093858869468516352 ---> Barrow-in-Furness was where the Armaments division of Vickers Shipbuilding & Engineering developed the ultralight weight field howitzer which later became the M-777 when BAE tookover. It is quite interesting if Kalyani has indeed taken over this facility.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby VKumar » 09 Feb 2019 08:03

The wall on our western border, can be a wall of artillery. This will keep out the hordes of terrorists expected as soon as Pakistan detonates.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby darshhan » 09 Feb 2019 08:46

VKumar wrote:The wall on our western border, can be a wall of artillery. This will keep out the hordes of terrorists expected as soon as Pakistan detonates.


That is not how you fight wars. You concentrate your forces on points where you have to punch in thereby overwhelming the enemy forces on those points.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 09 Feb 2019 21:32

Rakesh wrote:The Kalyan’s acquisition of Barrow is DDM to me. But a majority of the M777 guns will be assembled in India. Let me dig up an official source on this. Unless someone beats me to it :)


Thanks for the info Rakesh.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 09 Feb 2019 21:42

JayS wrote:
Rakesh wrote:The Kalyan’s acquisition of Barrow is DDM to me. But a majority of the M777 guns will be assembled in India. Let me dig up an official source on this. Unless someone beats me to it :)


Thanks for the info Rakesh.


The news is correct here is from horse's mouth :

“We have completed the acquisition of a BAE Systems facility in Barrow-in-Furness, UK, which is a submarine and artillery plant,” stated Kalyani.

http://idrw.org/induction-of-new-artill ... nce-firms/ .

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 09 Feb 2019 21:45

Krishna, I would love to believe that. But the sources make me doubt that. One is IDRW (who shamelessly copied it from Ajai Shukla's blog) and the second is Ajai Shukla.

You are welcome JayS.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 09 Feb 2019 21:49

Agreed, I guess things will clear out in coming months if it's true or not. I sincerely pray this to be true.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 09 Feb 2019 22:26

krishna_krishna wrote:
JayS wrote:
Thanks for the info Rakesh.


The news is correct here is from horse's mouth :

“We have completed the acquisition of a BAE Systems facility in Barrow-in-Furness, UK, which is a submarine and artillery plant,” stated Kalyani.

http://idrw.org/induction-of-new-artill ... nce-firms/ .


I dont know who copied whom between the "two" sources available. Both are unreliable, the one you posted is more so. I'd believe when I see a company statement or Baba Kalyani himself saying in a video or some credible news outlet reporting. I tried. I cannot find such source. Should have been quite a buzz about it otherwise.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby VKumar » 10 Feb 2019 01:41

darshhan wrote:
VKumar wrote:The wall on our western border, can be a wall of artillery. This will keep out the hordes of terrorists expected as soon as Pakistan detonates.


That is not how you fight wars. You concentrate your forces on points where you have to punch in thereby overwhelming the enemy forces on those points.


Not to fight a war but to discourage illegal immigration by millions when Pakistan implodes. To make a wall is one thing, to use a few hundred older artillery guns to cover sectors where wall is not possible, as well as to backup the wall.

Anyways it was just a thought since so many 105/130mm guns being available.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Prem » 10 Feb 2019 02:19

VKumar wrote:
darshhan wrote:
That is not how you fight wars. You concentrate your forces on points where you have to punch in thereby overwhelming the enemy forces on those points.
Not to fight a war but to discourage illegal immigration by millions when Pakistan implodes. To make a wall is one thing, to use a few hundred older artillery guns to cover sectors where wall is not possible, as well as to backup the wall. Anyways it was just a thought since so many 105/130mm guns being available.


Big guns to back up few hundred Shilkas at the front in direct mode making mounds of PakiPretas.


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