Artillery: News & Discussion

nam
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 11 Nov 2018 19:29

Rakesh wrote:DGs of Armoured Corps, please take note :)


India's Second Army is the only one now holding off. Once breached, our Land System indigenous will be complete.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby la.khan » 11 Nov 2018 22:49

nam wrote:Just for the records:
145 M77, 100 K9, 300 upgraded M46, 414 Dhanush, 1800-2000 ATAGS :eek: , 800 MGS :eek:

nam ji, are the numbers for ATAGS & MGS confirmed orders IA placed with manufacturers (OFB?)? Any URLs for this? IA consistently places orders for guns in the lower hundreds (< 150). These may be trial orders, to see if OFB/DPSUs can deliver promised numbers, on budget and on time and quality.

I don't recollect seeing IA place such huge orders for artillery. If IA can induct 200-300 new 155 mm guns per year :twisted:, that will still be awesome for a force starved of new guns for the last 30 years :evil:

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 11 Nov 2018 22:53

la.khan wrote:
nam wrote:Just for the records:
145 M77, 100 K9, 300 upgraded M46, 414 Dhanush, 1800-2000 ATAGS :eek: , 800 MGS :eek:

nam ji, are the numbers for ATAGS & MGS confirmed orders IA placed with manufacturers (OFB?)? Any URLs for this? IA consistently places orders for guns in the lower hundreds (< 150). These may be trial orders, to see if OFB/DPSUs can deliver promised numbers, on budget and on time and quality.

:


Those numbers are according to Artillery Long term perspective plan, which was made public out a decade ago.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 11 Nov 2018 23:05

That was part of FARP (Field Artillery Rationalization Program). IIRC, FARP was of 2000 vintage. Rohit Vats or someone else had some posts for it in BRF. Will try to find out and post. Here's what i found through Google.

http://www.spslandforces.com/story/?id= ... ure-Status

Some quotes

The alarming state of voids resulted in the evolvement of Field Artillery Rationalization Plan (FARP) in 2000 As part of FARP, 155mm calibre was made the standard gun system for Indian Artillery


These include 1,580 towed gun systems (TGS), 814 mounted gun systems (MGS), 100 self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) and 145 BAE Systems M777 155 mm/39 calibre lightweight howitzers for the mountains. Expect for M777, all other gun systems were of 155mm/52 calibre or 45 calibre. Locally upgraded and retrofitted guns will make up additional numbers.


http://www.defproac.com/?p=728
1. This article gives a good timeline of saga. Can't copy and paste it but highlights Roughly 2700-3600 new guns have to be acquired

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Nov 2018 23:25

I have seen reports of all but the 2800 ATAGS and MGS. Those were stated as requirements.
The small orders are to start the production line.

Thanks for the report on M777 design drivers.

One product improvement could be heavier barrel for IA use as they like to use artillery a lot.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby la.khan » 11 Nov 2018 23:29

nam wrote:Those numbers are according to Artillery Long term perspective plan, which was made public out a decade ago.

ArjunPandit wrote:http://www.defproac.com/?p=728
1. This article gives a good timeline of saga. Can't copy and paste it but highlights Roughly 2700-3600 new guns have to be acquired

Oh ok! Thanks for the link. Very informative! I found the timelines glacial and depressing. But things are looking up on the artillery front. If we can induct 3000+ 155mm 45/52 cal guns over 10-12 years, that would be welcome change for the better.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Nov 2018 00:08

^^^around year end 2017 I posted here that we will be inducting around ~300-500 artillery pieces an year. This is similar to the no. of bofors that were deployed in kargil.

While I would have wanted Zhukov/Kanov style artillery for Vistula-Odor:
Zhukov and Konev had 163 divisions for the operation with a total of: 2,203,000 infantry, 4,529 tanks, 2,513 assault guns, 13,763 pieces of field artillery (76 mm or more), 14,812 mortars, 4,936 anti-tank guns, 2,198 Katyusha multiple rocket launchers, and 5,000 aircraft


I guess in terms of cumulative artillery fire rate we may be close or even ahead.

We need to get basics of production quality right. That's the constant gripe I read over here and in media.
If not anything this will
1. Give jobs to indians (domestic and export: if possible)
2. Make pakis more bankrupt

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby titash » 12 Nov 2018 00:48

Rakesh wrote:Modernization of Artillery – A Review of Success
http://indiandefenceindustries.in/moder ... of-success

By Lt General Palepu Ravi Shankar (Retd)


Excellent Article!!!

And they key to success is here:

"Technological mumbo jumbo did not fool us. A holistic appraisal of all technologies was taken so that programs could be executed in time. It is often said that the ‘best is the enemy of good’. We lowered sights, accepted the achievable ‘good’technology and kept the wishful ‘best’ out. However, in doing so it was ensured that the essential technologies were harnessed for implementation."

The contribution of Mr Manohar Parrikkar, then RM, was immense and critical. Very early on in our respective tenures, he conveyed to me that Artillery was his priority.

*** This article is a must-read ***

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2018 04:41

He gives the roadmap that was sustained over long years to rebuild the artillery arm. Note the 7 systems of which four would be selected: Dhanush, Sarang, ATAGs, M777.
K9 is armoured corps.
All are 155mm systems.
Modular charges
Electronics Fuzes
Interim mechanical fuzes back in production.
So now all those CAG reports make sense. They give snapshots of a changing artillery picture and distorted the view.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2018 04:42

He has not mentioned the joint industry and military center for induction Dhanush.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 12 Nov 2018 06:22

Is there any stat. reg. the enemy arty. strength that we would face both in Tibet/ N-East and on the west and J&K?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Nov 2018 07:48

My hunch is dhanush is not publicised due to Bofors association.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2018 10:13

Gen. P.R. Shankar is reading this thread.
Best behavior!

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby suryag » 12 Nov 2018 10:24

First of all hats off to the much hated MoD(we have lots of posters/mods taking up cudgels to protect any perceived slight to forces but no one to talk for the much maligned babus); second my sashtaang pranaams to Parrikar Sir for moving the items through. It also shows the amount of garbage to be cleaned to really put a Make in India initiative in motion despite it being driven by PMO. In other words, if there is a clear directive from the top, the MoD babus/ DG Artillery will perform and further the goals i.e., they are not chronically corrupt(may be a few are opportunistically corrupt), it takes the right leadership and given that all of these laabiies and nonsense will become irrelevant in 5-10 years. Given the nature of the technical gestation periods any good decision taken will start showing fruits only a few years later and mind you this is for a relatively low tech item like Artillery, imagine what it takes for high tech equipment like Tejas. No wonder the Tejas' production rate is picking up only now. Next time i see someone calling the forces import pasand or other stuff they will get a warning.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 12 Nov 2018 10:46

Good to see the progress in indigenising and expanding our artillery repertoire. The key would be to shelter and nurture these shoots of progress and see them grow into a forest.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 13 Nov 2018 04:31

Indian Army to get more firepower: Projects for guns are being fast tracked, says the army.

Negotiations and development are at advance stages of contract and planning in an effort to modernise the artillery arsenal by acquiring 1,500 towed artillery guns for the Indian Army. Around 1,100 are expected to be produced in India under the Make in India initiative which is expected to cut the cost of a gun by at least 25%.

India is looking at the 155 mm/52 Cal towed gun system which is being developed by Nexter Systems of France and Elbit Systems (Israel) which is at the contract negotiation stage. Both these companies have joint ventures with L&T and Bharat Forge respectively. (After ATAGS from TATA and Bharat forger, how many different type of towed guns is army looking to acquire?)

According to experts, in the Indian Army there are 200 artillery regiments which require gun and modernisation. The real requirement is of at least 3000 guns, out of which most will be towed guns.

FE was the first to report that 155mm/52 calibre towed gun called ‘Trajan’ is under-going user trials at Indian Army ranges and is being fast-tracked too for the modernisation of the Indian Army.

The `Trajan’ is a 155mm 52 caliber towed gun artillery system designed and manufactured by the French Company Nexter Systems and will be made in India by the private sector company L&T. This gun has the capability of being able to support any mechanized and armored unit and is served by a six-man crew and is very much facilitated by automation of operations for putting it into or taking it out of action, for aiming and by an automatic loading of shells.

As has been reported by FE earlier, Nexter Systems of France and L&T of India signed an Agreement announcing the formation of Nexter Systems-led consortium for 155 mm Towed Gun Artillery program for the Indian Army.

L&T in a venture with Nexter Systems will be building critical subsystems for Trajan here in India which will integrate and provide required support for the gun system to the Indian Army In 2016, the French company responded in the final bid worth $1.1 bn contract for 1,400 155mm towed cannons.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 13 Nov 2018 04:41

Typical reporters. Someone in MoD leaked news about plans to push through orders for Dhanush & ATAGS or "towed artillery" and there by supporting "Make in India". Two articles I came across got it right.

This one did a bit of "extra research" using their earlier report and ended up with this nonsense. Did not bother to do a google search.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 13 Nov 2018 05:48

Rakesh wrote:Aah okay. Thanks Nam.

https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan/sta ... 6988453888 ---> Giving credit where its due. The revival of Indian artillery - Dhanush, K-9, M-777 is all thanks to Manohar Parrikar and a series of fine DG Artys, like Lt General Palepu Ravi Shankar (Retd). Reup of my 2016 story tracking the revival, roadmap and key decisions.

Exorcising the ghost of Bofors
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/the- ... 2016-11-24

The Indian army is set to acquire its first howitzers in three decades and restart a long-delayed artillery modernisation program.


Please visit Lt General Palepu Ravi Shankar's (Retd) twitter feed ---> https://twitter.com/palepurshankar

Lots of excellent tweets, links (articles by him and others) and very nice info....lots to read and learn!


Don’t forget the primary architect-Gen V K Singh. Dhanush was in trial before he retired. He took a lot of pride in taking ownership of the project and lamented why army didn’t look into it earlier.
1 paisa worth of credit must also be given to Saint for supporting or at least not opposing

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 18 Nov 2018 01:17

Kalyani's have sought permission from GOI to export Bharat 52 artillery guns. They are expecting the same shortly.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Nov 2018 06:59

Vips wrote:Kalyani's have sought permission from GOI to export Bharat 52 artillery guns. They are expecting the same shortly.

DENIED!!

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 18 Nov 2018 09:14

ks_sachin wrote:
Vips wrote:Kalyani's have sought permission from GOI to export Bharat 52 artillery guns. They are expecting the same shortly.

DENIED!!



source /Link ?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 18 Nov 2018 09:54

Why people do this? Drop a piece of info without any source or link.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 18 Nov 2018 10:25

Kalyanis should setup a plant in singapore, register a entity there, create jobs there and export from jurong industrial area

Give a slap to goi refusal

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 18 Nov 2018 10:55

Katare wrote:Why people do this? Drop a piece of info without any source or link.

I agree. Guys, please provide links. Give the news piece more credibility.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Snehashis » 18 Nov 2018 12:28

AFAIK Kalyani were denied from using the testing range here so they tested it at US. Also to be noted it is a modern variant of the gun design they bought from Europe (can't recall which country atm) and not to be mixed up with ATAGS.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Paul » 18 Nov 2018 19:14

Austria?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 18 Nov 2018 19:30

GC-45/Canada to Voest Alpine-Noricum/Austria to Kalyani/India.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2018 22:16

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 4469742592 ---> Indian Army K-9 VAJRA-T Self Propelled Howitzer. It can fire its shells in Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact mode. It fires three shells in under 15 seconds—1 shell every 5 seconds—each in different trajectories so that all of the shells will arrive on their target together.

Image

Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 22 Dec 2018 22:19

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 5101383680 ---> New Artillery Guns of Indian Army: M777 Ultra Light Howitzer and K-9 Vajra-T Self Propelled Howitzer. Both are the first new guns for Artillery Core of Indian Army since the infamous Bofors Scandal which left our artillery capabilities in limbo.

Image


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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 26 Dec 2018 10:16



Lots of good news on Dhanush and Sarang.
Induction in Feb 2019 by Modiji.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jan 2019 23:46

Indian artillery on an upward trajectory, to become modern and more deadly
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... y/1441340/

January 12, 2019

By Lt Gen Anil Ahuja (Retd) - a former Deputy Chief of Integrated defence Staff (Policy Planning and Force development) and Senior Colone Commandant of Regiment of Artillery.

To every discerning Indian, even a mention of the two-decade-old Kargil conflict evokes memories of the fire and fury unleashed by Artillery.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Jan 2019 03:55

X-Post:

jaysimha wrote:OFB May -June 2018 Report

ofb news letter may-july 2018.


Pages 4- 5 have a detailed history of the Dhanush development and trials. Wish it was on a Project type schedule also.
It tells all the events and milestone dates achieved And total number of rounds fired to qualify the gun.

Wish they talked about the barrel burst, and the muzzle strikes to add more credibility to the account and shows lessons learned.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Jan 2019 15:29

Good discussion on the K-9 Thunder SP gun on Rajya Sabha TC on the "Security Scan" feature..Range from 28 to 38 km.Meant for the Southern Strike Corps, tracks for the desert.Other strike corps perhaps later.

Lt.Gen.Saxena.First time a deal with SoKo and L& T winning a global tender.
Multiple round simultaneous effect- sev. rounds landing simultaneously. Capability to build them in India great for the future as only 10 are being imported out of the first order of 100.

Ajay Bannerjee.Tribune.South of Sutlej ops. North of the river too riverine. More needed for this sector.
Indig. tech for Dhanush and ATAGS where we hold the tech. and that is where we have great promise.

Lt.Gen.Saxena.Huge borders requiring sev. thousands of types of arty.ATAGS " flagbearer" of the country. Sev.cos. joining together for key components unique.2000 guns + reqd.
Dhanush.We modified the range. As good as M-177. 145 ULH being acquired for the mountains. Pvt. sector collaboration in production.

Maj.Gen.Chakravarthy. Variety of terrain. Still areas where arty., hasn't reached due to no roads. NEast. K-9 toughest becos of the " make in India" goal. SoKo said no way over the ammo. But we've done it tx. to L&T.

Gen.Saxena. ATAGS holds the world record for range 48km+.



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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby abhik » 20 Jan 2019 18:50

Rishi_Tri wrote:https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1086540945103872000

Is the "seat-belt" thing Modi is wearing standard?
Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2019 19:54

I dont think so. it ensures he would not be hurt if lost footing on seat below.

Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 05 Feb 2019 23:33

That is the new Self Propelled Gun - K9 Vajra.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 3374986241 ---> Heading into Rajasthan when I see this behemoth being trailered to the desert, presumably headed to the range.

Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby gaurav.p » 07 Feb 2019 19:33

K9 and ULH look good for modernization. But what is the status of dhanush and atags?

Want to know, how K9 and ULH get inducted with such speed (inspite of barrel bursts) compared to local guns?


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